Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Jindal SAW Limited Q2 FY 2024 earnings conference call, hosted by PhillipCapital India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of PhillipCapital, I welcome everyone on Jindal SAW Q2 FY 2024 con call. From the management side, we have with us Mr. Neeraj Kumar, Group CEO and Whole Time Director; Mr. Vinay Gupta, President and Head Treasury; Mr. Narendra Mantri, President, Head Commercial, and CFO; and Mr. Rajiv Goyal. Without taking any much time, I would hand over the reins to Mr. Neeraj Kumar for the opening remark. Over to you, sir. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, friends. A very warm welcome to all our stakeholders. Yesterday we had our board meeting, and the results are all in front of you. First, I would like to just take you through some of the numbers, just to build a context. Then I would address some of the points which we believe would be most of the people would want to know, and then I would be there, happy to answer any more questions if we have not covered those aspects as well. So first, highlights of the results. The second quarter 2023: top line INR 4,611 crores, EBITDA INR 751 crores, PBT INR 474 crores, and PAT INR 348 crores. Now, that is respective. If you look at the trailing quarter, it is 37% growth on top line. No, 20% growth on top line, 22% growth on the EBITDA, 26 and 25 respectively on PBT. On the year-on-year, the growth appears to be much more significant, because as we have been saying, now, Jindal SAW platform or Jindal SAW performance has gone to a completely different platform altogether. And as we have indicated in some of our earlier calls, that this year is the breakaway year, where we see that last year was the best ever. This year is likely to be better than that as well. So it is a best over our best, and it will put Jindal SAW in a on a different platform of performance. If you look at the consolidated numbers, a similar pattern is emerging. Gross income, INR 5,400 crore. EBITDA, INR 827 crore PBT, INR 496 crore, PAT, INR 356 crore. Now, this, again, you would see that the subsidiaries all around the world have started contributing, and that trend is likely to continue. So if you look at the quarter result, both consolidated as well as standalone, this is probably one of the best quarters at both levels. When you see such a quarter result, a natural question that would come in everybody's mind, and let me answer that upfront for you: Is this a flash in the pan, or this performance can be sustainable, and for how long? So a simple answer: We are at the mid of the year. This year, there is a complete visibility of the performance sustaining or even bettering. The demand is such that at least for the next 12, 18, 24 months, the trend should be similar. We may not see a similar rate of growth or the steepness of curve, but-... The results will show an upward trend, will maintain and sustain. We already have a visibility for the next two, three quarters, and enough demand, enough factors to suggest that we have indeed arrived at a completely different level of fundamental strength, and we'll talk about that fundamental strength in a bit. A few important other highlights: order book of $1.4 billion If you see, our sweet spot used to be about INR 1 crore. building the commodities volatility time, we had deliberately brought it down to around 700, 600. Now, we are hovering around $1.4 billion, and we wish to maintain it around $1.4 billion, because we do not want to bloat the order book and expose ourselves to a very long-term delivery. Because then the issue of raw material prices, other prices, inflation, customer satisfaction, many things come in. So $1.4 billion or around $1.4 billion is the new sweet spot that we have found or in the new business model for Jindal SAW. As we have always been maintaining and emphasizing, debt, we have a very strong discipline and is being maintained. Please look at the trend. Turnover goes up, business goes up, working capital requirement goes up, but overall, debt is under control and is showing a trend. Again, it's not a flash in the pan. It's showing a downward trend which is sustaining, which is a testimony of that, yes, we do have an active treasury, we do have a disciplined financial management system, and we do care, monitor, and work towards keeping the debt under check. I'm sure all of you would have noticed the rating agencies have also upgraded us. Now we are at, AA with a stable outlook, which is good enough. We are among the best-rated among our peers, and, this is where we always belonged, and very soon we have found our home position, even from a rating agencies. Banks, financial institutions, we maintain a very good, relationship, so resources has never been a constraint for us, and in the near future, we don't see, resources ever coming in the way of our performance. We have enough resources, whether it be financial or other resources at our command. The company's fundamentals are very strong. So very briefly, having covered the financials, just to give you a perspective, I am sure all of you have, the much more detailed results, in front of you, and you would have got a chance to look at it. Let's first talk about now some of the qualitative aspects, which gives us confidence that indeed, our performance is robust, sustainable, and is a result of a lot of hard work that has gone over the last, few years. So business model, one of the most diversified product portfolio in the world, in the pipe and tube industry, covering varied segments like water, oil and gas industry. In industry also, many segments: power, sugar, refinery, automobiles. And such a large product portfolio, in every segment, we have a sizable amount of capacity, and therefore, we maintain a very, very good market share standing with our clients. We also have some value-added, products, value-added segments, like Hunting JV. In others also, we have everywhere few things like double chamber pipe in DI, 1.2 meters of DI pipe in India, which-... gives us a unique positioning and is a barrier for our other peers. So our positioning among the clients is very different than what our peers have. So this, backed up by the quality assurance, quality control system that we have, by the financial resources that we have, the management bandwidth that we have, the technology that we have developed homegrown, the systems and processes like single SAP, SAP platform across the world. So all of these elements put together make our business model very robust. The demand is there, is likely to sustain. In fact, a few sectors: oil and gas sector is showing encouragement from our investment in the pipe or the transportation of oil and gas because of the geopolitical factors which are there. So even though the oil market per se appears to be volatile based on the outcome of all the geopolitical events, but since the average or mean level of oil price is beyond a certain threshold, investments in pipelines are showing a good trend, which is very good news for us. Jal Jeevan Mission and the unfinished products, projects in Jal Jeevan Mission is very good news. India becoming a manufacturing hub, defense, space, nuclear, all these are excellent good news because we have all the tubular products to serve all these market. And the way the industry is panning out, this is going to sustain in the foreseeable future, unless there is a complete collapse disaster, like a third World War. Because Indian economy has, again, enough resilience and strength. RBI is doing a very good job of preserving and protecting India. Political stability seems to be very strong, even though we are entering the election year, but the results, the probabilities and the predictability is very high. All put together, it all suggests that we indeed are in a sweet spot, and all the saplings that were grown, have grown and are beginning to blossom, bear fruit at the right time. A good environment, and we are absolutely there, ready to take advantage of all the opportunities that are being thrown open at us. Please remember, this is just a second quarter. Usually, the third and the fourth quarter, because of the government budgetary allocation, shows a little upward trend. That has been the traditional case, primarily because most of our governments are—most of our clients are government, who rely on the budgetary support. So we are in the right direction, and we are hopeful that this year we will show a very good performance. Now, exports. Because of the quick execution, mixture at 37 has come down to 34, 35, but this is a very small corridor. The export as a basket would remain above 30 for sure, and unlikely to go beyond 40, because we would like to keep a proper balance between the domestic and the export market. So exports will re remain between 30% and 40% of my order book and my revenue. That is what we look at. This, many of you would have seen. We had a soft launch or a proper launch of the JV. It's operational. We are just waiting for the API license. This year, we become operational. If we become operational as planned, means if we get the API license in calendar year 2023. In the last quarter by itself, the JV would break even. The total investment from Jindal SAW is $2 million, the rest is all debt, standalone, for the joint venture. First, our effort would be to reach the capacity before we look at any investment cycle. There is no more investment planned in the Hunting JV at present. As all of you would see, if the profits are going up, the company would have a cash generation. But we are, at this point of time, not looking at any M&A or any major CapEx. A few things are being thought about, but they are very much still on the drawing board. We will come back to you whenever we have seen that there is some traction on it. So at present, the cash generated would be conserved in the company, shared with the shareholders, and will be used to repay debt, surplus bring down working capital loan. Which, if you see, has been the case, and that is why the working capital utilization has not grown in the same proportion as the top line. We have talked about the demand scenario, we have talked about the oil and gas. Okay, one important- or rather, two important factors I just want to touch upon before I stop and take questions: The geopolitical scenario in Middle East, MENA region. Till the time the war is limited to Gaza, Israel, and maybe a part of Syria, Hezbollah and all that, it has got zero impact. Oil and gas prices is likely to go up, so that's a positive news for us. Even though it is at the cost of humanitarian crisis, obviously, we are all sad about it. But if the war spills into something much larger, much bigger, which we don't believe will happen, the MENA region should continue to remain stable, is what our assessment is. We have a very large facility in Abu Dhabi, and there also the exports, which is largely, products are exported to about 33 countries all over the world, including all MENA region. We have not seen any slowdown, we have not seen any problem there. So as long as this is localized, we are fine, and we hope and believe that it will remain localized, because every side, the cost of escalation or spread is very high, and I don't think anybody is prepared to take a plunge. Ukraine, Russia, now it looks like that industry and everybody has more or less settled and moved on. It has been fully factored in. But it has had a... Again, any war has a humanitarian crisis, it has got cost. But speaking purely from a demand business perspective, a narrow perspective, if you take, it has had a positive impact because Ukraine was a large supplier of seamless stainless pipes and tubes to Europe. So Europe has now started looking at India as a possible supplier, which is good news for us, for our products. And therefore, even though on a geopolitical, worldwide economy, recession, things seem to be a bit concerned, but from a very limited tunneled window of Jindal SAW, demands, seems to be sustaining, demand seems to be growing, and the acceptance of India is getting better in Europe, in MENA. Many places, we were seeing that China and India were hyphenated, but now, in some markets, we also see that separation is happening. We don't have to, or we no longer have to sit with the Chinese as our competitor and negotiate... which is again, a welcome news for us. So with these words, let me conclude. We have entered a phase of performance at a new platform level. It will sustain, it will grow, from here on. So I thank all of you for the trust, and now things are beginning to show the result. Let me stop here. Thank you very much, and take few questions. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Sunidhi Securities. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible? Yeah, please, if you could speak a little louder, that would be fine. Speak a little slower and louder. I'm audible now? Yes, yes, yes. Congratulations on consistent good operating performance for last 3-4 quarters. With your recent mark, I'm hopeful that many more quarters or years will have a similar good performance. Just wanted to know in terms of, as you have given, demand outlook perspective. If you give, product-wise, I mean, where we have seen with making more demand, whether it's SAW pipes or DI pipes or maybe generative different product category. So where do you see more demand in terms of - and we have been with making. If you give more color on that. And secondly, about our this joint venture we talked about. So what kind of potential in terms of revenue we can have, because we just started the commercial operation. Just two questions for me. Lovely. To your first question, in my last call, I had spent a lot of time deliberating upon that now we are taking a more customer-centric approach in our performance, in our measurement, because that reflects the ground reality much better. Because now we have got such a large product portfolio, and some of the products are competing among themselves. So I have given you a industry-wise outlook in terms of water looks very strong, oil and gas looks good, and the industrial sector, like power, sugar, defense, they are all looking very good. So the demand is good for all our products. And in order not to confuse many people, we do not now talk about the different product segments, which at one point of time, when we had some limited number of products, we used to talk about. Now, coming to JV. Investment is complete. We are not in commercial production as yet. We have started trials. We are waiting for the API license. The potential of this is 50-70,000 pieces in metric tons in one year. And let the board approve the business plan, then I would be able to talk about the financial business plan of the joint venture. But it's, it is a very high margin business, and it's a profitable business because it caters to the premium segment. The number guidance probably when we talk next time, hopefully the board by then would have approved the business plan, and we can talk about it. Thank you very much. Lastly, one more question, in terms of domestic market. If you could talk about more in water segment, which states are investing more, I mean, are we getting water, and which states are yet to invest in water? If you have any data on that. The water segment, the important states for us are, starting from top, Rajasthan, Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Telangana, Andhra, Odisha. So these areas that we are seeing, and now with Sathavahana coming and being, we would also try and penetrate into Tamil Nadu, further south. So with these two plants and the capacities, but for the east and northeast, and but for the extreme north, where like Jammu and Kashmir, we are more or less very strong in all the central parts of India. And all of these states have now announced their own water grid, plus they are all participating in the Jal Jeevan Mission, which is yet to be completed, and therefore, the next 2-3 years is going to be busy for the water infra segment. Thank you. Okay, sir. I'm also going to leave hopefully. Thank you, have a good day. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Bhavin Chheda from Enam Holdings. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Overall, a good set of numbers. Sir, since you have diverse product segments, probably you don't disclose the breakup of the pipes between different segments. But if you can give some guidance on how are the margins across different products, like seamless pipe, DI pipes, and your line pipes, in order of preference, like, which would be the highest and which would be the lowest? This is one. And I think that from the current quarter, the South India DI division also, you have given the numbers, and 44,000 tons was sold from that unit. So how are the margins on that business vis-a-vis your in-house DI pipes? See, Rob, again, you are getting into an area which we never discuss and disclose, because that is the USP of Jindal SAW. Putting everything in a conglomerate fashion, in a robust fashion, gives us a unique advantage of pricing our products and entering the market wherever we can. And therefore, the margins are, in every segment, dynamic in nature, based on the strategy, demand, and supply. We price our products accordingly. What I would request all of you to focus on is that the EBITDA margin about a year back, which was in the 12s and the 13 range, have now come up to 15 and 16. That is it. This is a percentage of sales, sir? Yes. Today, the EBITDA to sales for this quarter is 16%. That is important- Okay. -because you are interested in Jindal SAW, and not in a division of Jindal SAW. Sure, sir. You expect, sir, being your order book is very strong and momentum picking up, so you expect this to be a new normal and these margins to be sustainable going forward? Since you already have a visibility of over 2-3 years. Yeah, yeah. We would like to have told you, we always want to have a sweet spot. So the order book of $1.4 billion appears to be a sweet spot for us in the new scenario, because we have, there is M&A, we have added capacities, we have expanded capacities, we have done some capacity balancing. So $1.4 billion is... And we would like to keep it around this only. Because I told you, the bloating the order book, it is possible because we can keep on winning more contracts, but that then exposes us to a long-term, you know, olatility in terms of inflation, price differential and all that. So $1.4 billion is sustainable, and we would stay around the same. Sure. And the last question, if you can, highlight now what exactly is the installed capacity or, achievable production capacity? Probably if you have pipe-wise or whatsoever you define your, installed capacity of DI pipes, seamless, LSAW, spiral- Okay, I'll give you- You have that number handy? Yeah, yeah. I can give you. The all the pipes put together is about 2.5 million tons. My pellet is around 1.7 million tons. Those are two segments, which are separate segments, and that is the capacity that we have. 2.5 is including the overseas capacity, right? No, I'm talking about domestic. Domestic. And Abu Dhabi would be, sir? Abu Dhabi is about 3,300,000 tons. Okay. Thanks a lot, and best of luck, sir. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sailesh Raja from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Congrats for the good set of numbers. Sir, on the volume front, things are very much intact, as you mentioned in the opening remarks. But my question is on the cost side. Now, the coking coal prices have gone up sharply in last two months from $230-$340. So what is our average inventory cost and how many days inventory we have on coking coal side? And I also wanted to know when this increased coking coal price will start reflecting in our numbers? Because last year, I think, first half of FY 2023, our performance was impacted because of rise in coking coal prices. So what is our mitigation plan this time? Yeah. There's a difference between the last time and the this time, in the movement in the commodity or the raw material prices. A, the movement is not that sharp, and it is unlikely to be that volatile. B, learning from the past experience, we have A, tried to hedge, work with the government to have a price variation clause, so that there is a benchmark raw material price of these commodities included in the contract, and any increase is passed on to the customer. In a lot of contracts, we have succeeded in doing it. Second, we are also making some technological modifications to the blast furnace, like adding the PCI, pulverized coal injection, to the blast furnace, so that the specific cost of coal per unit of liquid production is going to come down significantly. So with technological modifications, price variation clause, and the volatility remaining, within a certain range, we are hopeful that the results we would be able to sustain. If at all, there is an impact, it will be marginal. It would be nowhere close to what we witnessed in the last year, or last time when the commodity, we went into that, commodity spiral. Okay. So, can INR 5,000 minimum, it can sustain, sir, EBITDA per kg in VIP. Now, it is around INR 10-11 in the trend for the industry I'm talking. So because of the initiatives you have taken, we could maintain the INR 5,000, INR 5.5 per kg? The industry average, it's best that you guys calculate. Let me not talk about industry, let me not talk about my peers. We would maintain... In every product segment, we maintain a healthy EBITDA margin. And again, as I said, being a USP of Jindal Saw, we do not discuss the segment-wise EBITDA margin. Okay. So my second question, could you please talk about opportunities we are seeing in LSAW Pipes? Because in FY 2019, we have reported around 2.6 lakh tons volume, and last four years we have been reporting volumes at sub 2 lakh tons only. So what kind of growth you are expecting in LSAW Pipes? And also, our capacity utilization is very much underutilized for many years, so 100% we are betting on overseas market only, and till date, opportunities are not big enough to, fill our capacity. So what is our strategy here? I have, in a few of my earlier calls, emphasized, especially in a large DI segment, capacity utilization is a kind of a misnomer. Because each plant is capable of producing, say, from each spiral plant could produce anywhere from 20 inches in diameter to 80 inches in diameter. So the boiler plate capacity is based on an ideal size, which you never get in the market. Second, changeover time is not-- So when you look at a boiler plate capacity versus the actual capacity utilization, across the globe, you will see in large diameter pipe, you would actually be performing to your full capacity if you are going anywhere close to 45, 50, or 60. Because of the product mix, because of the thickness, because of the sizes, and the changeover, et cetera. So I have always... That's why I have requested my stakeholders, my friends and investors, please move away from those usual benchmarks that are used in other industry, otherwise, you may get misguided. So in large DI, the boiler plate capacity actually does not mean much when it comes to serving the industry. At this point of time, I can tell you, most of our plants are busy, and we have headroom for, whatever we are doing at present, probably we could go another 20% more. So that headroom we have. Okay. But start looking at from this perspective, rather than boiler plate and the capacity utilization. Because in a pipe industry where there is so much of variability in terms of diameter, thickness, you would get misguided. ... Okay. Thanks, sir. So last five years, we have been reporting, EBITDA above INR 1,200 crore per annum, and cumulatively, EBITDA last five years is around INR 7,300 crore, which is, commendable. But, debt is still at similar levels of FY 2019. So basically, we need to understand what is our capital allocation policy for the next two years. Could you please tell me in percentage terms, how much of the total cash generation, how much it will go to CapEx, then the debt repayment and dividend payment? I have already, I have already covered in my remarks. No projects announced. All CapEx are in the nature of normal maintenance CapEx and some modification, technological improvements. For example, putting that PCI in the three blast furnace that we have. So all CapEx at this point of time are in the nature of maintenance, normal CapEx, no projects, no M&A activity on the horizon. We have completed Sathavahana, and for now, none of those are there. The moment we have anything coming closer to fruition, we will definitely come back to you. As a business, we have to continue to look forward, keep on exploring, examining, which is a part of any dynamic organization. We do it, but we don't have anything at this point of time that we can announce. So one last question: Sir, do you see any reduction in interest rate because of improvement in credit rating? If yes, what is our current interest rate? Yes, the WAC, the WAC has come down. Okay. But overall impact of financial charges on the entire per unit of production or sale will further go down, because the surplus cash generated would also be used to bring down my working capital debt. Thank you. Sir, are you doing any bill discounting you are doing, sir? We use either between the export and the domestic, we use all treasury equipments. As I told you, we are a very active treasury, so we use all of those. One thing that we always emphasize on is the credit worthiness and the quality of receivables. Usually, we avoid giving open credit to private sector. Okay, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Aequitas Investment Consultancy. Please go ahead. Good morning. My first question is in regards to the Sathavahana. What is the capacity utilization- No, I can't, I can't-- I cannot hear you. Maybe you have to come closer or speak a little slow and loud. Hello? Yes. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My first question is in regards to the capacity utilization at Sathavahana level, and we had excess coke capacity there, so what are we doing about it? See, Sathavahana, currently we are running at a capacity utilization of 60%-70%, but we are also doing some capacity balancing, adding some balancing equipment. So the capacity by itself is likely to increase by a good 20%-25%, and by next year, we expect to run almost 80%-90% capacity. Sure. Thank you. My next question is in regards to the, could you give the order book, volume? I've already told you, $1.4 billion. 1.4- The breakup probably would be supplied in the notes that has been given. Okay. Otherwise, check with Rajiv Goyal, he would be able to give that to you. Okay. And, in terms of we have INR 454 crore of CapEx for, in our cash flow. For what would that be? I don't have that figure in front of me. So, those very specific questions, I would encourage you to send an email to Rajiv Goyal, and he will be able to clarify all that to you. In terms of the last question, what is the pipeline from Middle East and Saudi? Could you elaborate on that? I told you my export portfolio is around 34% at this point of time, majority of which is from Middle East. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari from SkyRidge Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. Am I audible? Yes, you are. Yeah. Please go ahead. Yeah. So just one question. We wanted to understand your order book strategy, because, say, today we have trailing sales of about INR 20,000 crore, and if we... How do we plan to achieve growth while maintaining our order book at current levels?... Are we planning to, you know, go for more small size, low gestation period orders, or? I just wanted to understand the strategy here. Just one clarification. We don't do trading, but all the top line turnover, majority of it has come from sales. Second, maintaining an order book, especially if you have a very healthy sales funnel, does not hamper growth. Because as we grow in our capacity utilization, we keep on taking more orders, because the sales funnel is very healthy based on a good demand in the market. So when I say a sweet spot around $1.4 billion, with this, we can still achieve growth, because then the rate of replenishing this $1.4 billion will enhance as we enhance the rate of execution. And that has been the trend, in fact, for the last few, quarters, so that is not an issue at all. We are also consciously moving more towards value-added segments, stainless steel, defense, nuclear, and all of those, so that the per ton NSR, as we call it, the net sales realization per ton, keeps on growing, going up. Because in those spaces, the competition is also less. The vendor qualification is tough. Not all of our peers easily qualify because of the stringent quality conditions. So that is the strategy. The strategy is to move up the value chain, to go for the elite customers, get into space where there are entry barriers of quality, et cetera, where we believe we can do very well, and therefore, you would be able to have a sustainable business, and you don't get into a street fight to get your business. Okay, understood the part regarding the premiumization. Just one small follow-up. So, from what I'm trying to... From what I'm understanding, what you're saying is you want to also focus on faster execution. So what I mentioned when I said low gestation period is from the moment you receive an order till the time you supply the product. I mean, since you provide your order book status every quarter, three monthly basis, so is it correct to assume that most of your orders will also be, you know, the timeline of it will be around three months or so only? You know, you get the order, you supply the product within three months? No, no, no. Different products have different timelines. Especially, I'll give you two extreme examples. Pellets is just in time. I have my iron ore, you pay me your money, I'll give you the pellets tomorrow. On the other hand, large DI, which is NACE, sour grade, high grade, probably the delivery line would be 6-7 months. Because those special grade steels, I'll have to import or buy. They will make it from me because NACE grade N80, X80 is not available on the shelf. So I will have to buy, open LC, deliver, manufacture, port, and then deliver. So the delivery time very much depends, is very product specific. Okay. I think, I think I understood what you're trying to say, and that was helpful. So just one last thing. So we should just expect, you know, there should be an order book reset every 3-4 years, maybe. So ideally it was $1 billion 3-4 years ago, so it's $1.4 billion now. And as the growth increases, we can expect maybe 1.7, 1.8, 3-4 years down the line. I won't put a number 3-4 years, maybe 2.5, or maybe 3.5, depending on how we continue to grow. But you are right. That's why I use the phrase, that now we have achieved a different platform of performance, where the baseline has moved up. So it's like a step function. You grow, take a step, grow, take a step. So you are right, it would be reset upwards, in the medium term, I would say. The time we will have to see how the market dynamic works. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Harsh Rajesh Shah from Sanctum Wealth. Please go ahead. Yeah, congratulations, sir. Am I audible? Yes. ... numbers. My next question- No, no, you are absolutely not audible. Very slow. Mr. Harsh, your voice is breaking. Please come closer. Yeah. Can you, can you hear me now? Still your voice is breaking, sir. Is it audible now? Sir, your voice is breaking. It is cracking in between. Hello? Mr. Harsh? We have lost the connection for Mr. Harsh. We will move to our next question from the line of Dhavan Shah from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So my question is, you know, on the SAW pipes, so can you help us to understand the demand supply situation in the domestic market? So you already highlighted that there is a good demand, strong demand across the oil and gas, plus the central. So how do you foresee, you know, the incremental investment from these two segments or two sectors for the next two to three years? And what would be, you know, the incremental demand in terms of the tonnage-wise? Help us to understand, you know, what is the capacity in the Indian market. So and considering the any new capacities coming in, so how do you see the overall demand supply situation for the SAW, SAW pipes? Okay. Let me try and address that for you. Hello? One allocation to the infrastructure like oil and gas and water. I'm sure you will find it in the budgetary allocations, because not all of them come through just the pipe. So those larger picture, you can get it from the government budgetary allocation. Two, as far as the pipe industry is concerned, we expect the demand to grow at a healthy rate of maybe 10%-15% per annum. And therefore, there is space for some new players, new capacities to enter, because at present, if you see the entire industry is operating at a good capacity utilization. So the increment or the growth in the pipe industry is creating space for new players. Anyway, entry of new players in all these segments, they will have to work for at least few years before they become a significant contributor. For us, as I told you, next 18-24 months is good, will remain good. None of these factors are really going to impact us in the next 18-24 months. Okay. So our plants are operating at what utilization for the SAW, SAW business? And you know, you already mentioned that the new players would, you know, can catch up with the... At present, if you want to, if you insist, boiler plate capacity, we would be at upward of 60-65%... It seems that we have lost the connection from Mr. Dhavan Shah. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikas Singh for the closing comments. Thank you, sir. On behalf of PhillipCapital, I would like to thank, Jindal SAW management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. I'm just forwarding this call to Mr. Neeraj Kumar for any closing remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you, stakeholders. Thank you, shareholders and others, investors. Everybody, I have to thank you for showing the confidence in us, for waiting, and now, I'm sure all of you would be happy that the company fundamental have indeed become strong, and the market has also started reacting to it. We believe there is still a lot of headroom. We believe there is still a lot of potential. So with these, I assure you that we will do everything to make the organization more valuable, and I hope to see you over the next quarterly call with another set of good results. Thank you. Bye. Thank you very much. On behalf of PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.