Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Jindal Stainless Limited Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Investec Capital Services. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ritesh Shah from Head Mid-Market Coverage and ESG Analyst Materials, Investec Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks, Ryan. We have with us, Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, Managing Director, Mr. Anurag Mantri, Executive Director and Group CFO, and Ms. Shreya Sharma, Head Investor Relations. I'll hand over the call to Shreya, to take the call forward. Thank you management for giving us the opportunity to host you. Over to you, Shreya. Thanks. Thank you, Ritesh. Good afternoon, everyone, a warm welcome on the call. Before we start the call, I would like to remind you about the disclaimer in the Q4 and FY 2023 earnings presentation, as we might be making forward-looking statements in today's call. I would like to hand over to our Managing Director, Mr. Abhyuday Jindal. Thank you, Shreya. Good afternoon to all, welcome everyone to the Q4 FY 2023 earnings call for Jindal Stainless Limited. I would first like to discuss the key business highlight of the quarter and full year ending March 2023, following which Anurag will take you through our operational and financial performance. The financial year 2023 started tough at the backdrop of macro challenges such as Russia-Ukraine war, imposition of export duty, making exports less competitive. Looking at our performance for FY 2023 and Q4 FY 2023, I am very pleased with the results. Our agility and adaptability to the changing market dynamics continued to help us align our sales volume to the domestic market requirements. During these challenging times, we managed to deliver a 6% volume growth on a full year basis. It is the strong economic activities in the infrastructure sector that are pulling up the core sector demand in the domestic market. Even though the market conditions remain challenging globally, we have been able to ramp up our export volume to 13% of our total sales volume in Q4 FY 2023. With this, we achieved the highest ever sales for the quarter in Q4 FY 2023, registering a 14% year-on-year increase. The demand in major economies such as EU and US remains weak, but we are continuously looking for new sectors, segments, and markets in different geographies. I'm also happy to share during March 2023, we successfully commissioned the one million ton melt capacity along with supporting downstream operations in Jajpur. The commissioning of project was well on time. With this we have reached 2.9 million ton melt capacity. We are now among the top five stainless steel producers, ex-China. Let me give you a brief about the segment wide scenario. On railway front, the wagon industry continued to perform well. Metro demand also continued to grow. This quarter marked the beginning of export to Alstom for their Australia metro project. Lift elevator segment is also showing great strength. In auto, despite the dip in the production of two-wheelers, we managed to increase our sales by consistently increasing our market share with auto majors. For the infrastructure segment, the outlook remains positive, with strong growth potential in structural applications. On the import front, subsidized and substandard foreign imports continue to distort the level playing field against Indian manufacturers. Specifically, import from China and Indonesia witnesses steep increase of 318% and 158% respectively from FY 2021 to FY 2023. The share of imports in the total stainless steel consumption in India in FY 2023 stood at 32%. We are committed to ensuring the health, safety, and well-being of our employees. In recognition of our efforts on this front, we are pleased to have been recognized with the prestigious International Safety Award from British Council for the fourth consecutive year. We are committed to take concrete steps on ESG front and increase our usage of renewable energy. We plan to install 21 MW and 6 MW solar panels in our Jalore and Hisar units respectively. We also bagged the India Green Award 2022 in the award category of Sustainable Energy Achievement Award. I'm also happy to share that we have signed a MOU with CII Corrosion Management Division to help scale up the corrosion movement in India and improve the life expectancy, safety, reliability of public infrastructure. This would help increase the usage of stainless steel for various applications. I would also let you know that after the successful acquisition of Rathi Super Steel Limited, Jindal Stainless has begun production in the facility ahead of the planned timelines. I would also like to share a strategic move that we have made by acquiring 49% stake for a consideration of around $150 million in Indonesia-based nickel pig iron company, which is part of the Eternal Tsingshan Singapore, one of the largest stainless steel and nickel producers in the world. This path-breaking collaboration will enhance value for stakeholders, with JSL acquiring a stake in nickel supply to create raw material security for its SS operations. Finally, I am delighted to share that the merger of Jindal Stainless Hisar with Jindal Stainless Limited stands complete, effective from March 2nd, 2023, with the appointed date of April 1st, 2020. With this, I would like to hand over to Anurag to discuss the operational and financial performances. Thank you. Thank you, Abhyuday. Good afternoon, everybody, a very warm welcome on the call today. We have shared our earnings presentation with the stock exchanges, today's call discussions will be on the same lines. Global macro scenario continued to be challenging during the quarter, as highlighted by Abhyuday. However, we continue to remain focused and flexible with our product mix, segment and geographies. With extensive R&D and development of new grades, we are catering to the demand of various segments to enhance our overall product mix. With this strategy, we delivered about above our guidance and registered a good 6% volume growth in FY 2023 despite the headwinds. On a shareholder return, it gives us the great pleasure to share that in line with our commitment to prudent capital allocation, the board has approved the final dividend of INR 1.5 per equity share, taking the total dividend of for FY 2023 to INR 2.5, i.e., 125% per equity share with a face value of INR 2 each. If you recall, last month board approved a special interim dividend of INR 1 per share on successful completion of merger. The total dividend outlay in FY 2023 is INR 206 crores, i.e., 10% of our PAT in FY 2023. With this backdrop, let me now discuss the operational and financial performance during Q4 and FY 2023. The deliveries for the quarter Q4 increased, Q4 FY 2023 increased by 14% on year-on-year basis. The revenue for the quarter rose by 5% on QoQ basis and maintained the flat on the year-on-year basis to INR 9,444 crore. EBITDA and PAT increased by 16% and 19% to INR 1,097 crores and INR 659 crore respectively on QoQ basis. For FY 2023, the combined revenue was recorded above INR 35,000 crores, higher by 8% on year-on-year basis. EBITDA and PAT for the combined entity for the same period stood at INR 3,567 crores and INR 2,014 crores respectively. Global subsidiaries performance continued to remain under pressure due to tough global macro environment. Performance of domestic subsidiaries remain satisfactory, contributing the EBITDA of INR 135 crores during the FY 2023. On the leverage side, we are quite comfortable. As on 31st March, the net debt of the standalone JSL stood at INR 2,591 crore, which is 18% down on year-on-year basis and 8% down against December 2022 level. Despite the organic and inorganic growth CapEx, our debt equity improved further to 0.2x, and we maintain a net debt to EBITDA level of 0.7x. I am also happy to share that the merger of Jindal Stainless (Hisar) Limited with Jindal Stainless Limited was completed in FY 2023. Total shares of a combined entity stood at 82.34 crore. We received listing approval from the stock exchange on April 11, 2023. I would like to share the credit rating side. The company has earned outlook upgrade from stable to positive by CRISIL and Fitch India Rating. On the long-term debt, reaffirmed rating at AA- and A1+ short-term debt with positive outlook. In case of JUSL acquisition, we expect the transaction to be completed within Q1 FY 2024. Our operating and financial performance are testimony to our agile business strategy and strong focus on balance sheet, which will continue in the future also. With this, we would like to now, I would like to now end my discussions and would request the moderator to open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from Amit Dixit with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good afternoon everyone, congratulations for a very good set of numbers. I have two questions. Yeah, I have two questions. The first one is essentially on volume. If I look at volume, this is like the highest volume ever in the history of the company. You are already running at a rate of roughly 2.1 million tons, or I mean thereabout, at least above two million tons. What would be the volume guidance in FY 2024? Also, did this volume include some amount of tolling, volume as well? Amit, in terms of if I give full FY 2023 volume guidance, it was around 1.7 million tons total. It is not two million, so it's 1.7. Now for FY 2024, we are seeing almost a 20% increase in volume, which is around 2.15 million to 2.2 million tons for FY 2024. Rolling I think will be over and above this. No. rolling what he means is that some of the trading, slab trading. Okay. That includes some of the quarter four debt volumes include some of those because our capacities were not ready for the new capacity. That includes that. 2.2 includes everything, right? 20% growth over FY 2023 is what we are committing. No. What I meant was, this is a follow-up, that, you know, your current run rate, not that your guidance in FY 2023, your current run rate suggests that we are doing in excess of two million tons. While the guidance that is being given is 2.15, all the capacities are ready, up and running. Moreover, we have surplus rolling capacity in JUSL. What I meant was whether this includes some of the 508 KT, does it include some volume rolled at JUSL? If so, how, what was the quantum? That includes some of these volumes, but on the volume side, so if you are, why we are not looking, we are, we're always cautious between our volumes and the EBITDA pattern the way we maintain, because we really don't want to get into the volume game with just dropping the EBITDA pattern and getting into a very lower end segment and start competing with other non-level playing field players. We will be very cautious of ramping up. That's why we are giving a guidance that 20%, at least 20% volume growth looks achievable for us at this stage. Practically we can do more volume, but in that case, we'll have to really drop our, get into the segment which we really don't want to get into too much. It also depends on how the US and the EU economy shapes up in the next coming months. Still we are hearing these talking is still going on, there is still fear of recession and, you know, so it's still not picked up to the level that was envisaged or expected. As and when that picks up, then we can also increase our volumes. Just for clarification, you have mentioned 2.15 million to 2.2 million tons and rolling volume, if any, will be over and above that. No. No, no. Rolling volume is included in that. Thank you. Rolling is only a strategy of our raw material sourcing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, fair enough. The second question is essentially if I see there's been, there you have also the board has also, you know, gone ahead for INR 500 crores-INR 5,000 crores of fund raise. I'm not sure why this fund raise, I mean, it can be an enabling resolution as well, but why enabling resolution at this point in time when, you know, debt is low, CapEx would be some kind of residual CapEx here and there. You know, I was not sure that, what prompted this enabling resolution. Are you planning to acquire something? Or, I mean, just to put some light on that would be great. Just to give you the full perspective, now we have a one company listed, there's a merger. Before merger, we had enabling resolution of INR 3,500 crore in each entity, JSL and JSHL. Now we have a new entity which has come into the play. We wanted to keep the approval at level of INR 5,000 crore because JSHL approval is no more valid and JSHL debt has also unfolded. This is to capture of any of the, including the refinancing opportunity or any of the good opportunity which include the refinancing. It's a more enabling resolution at this point. If you are, why this point? Now with this is the 1st board meeting of the listed combined listed entity. JSHL up and JSL approval were together were INR 7,000 crore. In fact, we are reducing the approval to INR 5,000 crore, the way to look at that. Okay, that's very helpful. Thanks and all the best. I have more questions, but I'll get back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Rahul Jain with Systematix. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on a good set of numbers. Now that we have completed this major CapEx, and I think we only have the Promor integration pending. How should we look at volume? Are we looking at a new project, new market segments? Can you also follow up with that, give a CapEx number for this year? CapEx number for FY 2024, it will be around INR 2,500 crore, which basically the two large CapEx include the JUSL completing the JUSL acquisition and also the Indonesia one. There is some of the spillover CapEx coming on our project expansion from FY 2023 also. The residual CapEx of that. Besides that, sustain and manage. Around INR 2,500 crore CapEx in this year will still be there. In terms of capacity expansion, we feel that at a three million ton level, we are quite sufficient for the next two to three years. Depending on how the domestic market and export market progresses and grows, then we'll take a call subsequently whether we need to further invest in more stainless steel capacity or not as of now. Sitting today, we are quite sufficient that, you know, for the next two to three years, this capacity will be sufficient because we're committing a 20% year-on-year volume growth in FY 2024 and also 20% to 25% volume growth in FY 2025. Okay. Thanks. That was helpful. Sir, also can you elaborate on the two investments that we have done? One is in the Indonesia, you know, how does it really help us on our overall business and, you know, in terms of margins profile? Also on this, the NCLT acquisition that we have done in terms of what roadmap we have over there. Are we looking to get big into long products where we are completely absent currently? Thanks. Okay, let me answer the Indonesia one first. Tony, okay. Indonesia one side, strategically it gives us two edge. One is that it further brings more consistency and robustness into our margin profile. As you know, over a period of time you would have seen we have brought lot of margin consistency by doing the risk management of our underlying raw material sourcing and entire supply chain. To be a completely agile model, matching the order book with the corresponding raw materials. Still obviously nickel remains a very volatile, so it gives us. It will help us to get further consistency because whatever raw material fluctuation which happens and takes some time lag to pass on to the customer, at least we'll be getting benefiting of that from this nickel output from this plant. Second is that it gives us the biggest one is that it more than this is that it gives the raw material linkages and raw material security, which is very critical for us. We will be able to meet our NPI requirement if the as per the need of this plant. This is clearly two good edge and will be very value accretive for the business. It's a very high IRR and payback period also. Yeah. Payback period for this will be, after once it starts, will be around 2.5 years. Maybe including construction period, around 4.5 years. Right. sir, on the long product, new strategy that we have through the acquisitions we have done. Long product was definitely a new entry for us. The reason that we went into it is because our customers were demanding it more than anything else. Along with our customers demanding us getting into long products, having a quality brand name to enter, and with the vision of government push in infrastructure, we feel that a lot of stainless steel is going to go into the infrastructure sector now, and going to be consumed in the infrastructure segment. Looking at the future plans of the country, looking at the future plans of the government of India, we went ahead with this long product transaction. Sir, I think, Right. We'll come back in the queue. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Vikash Singh with PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Afternoon. Sir, I want to understand that if you look at quarter-on-quarter basis, our EBITDA per ton jumps roughly about INR 4,000. The raw material prices were also higher, while our realization was slightly lower. What has contributed to this kind of the jump? Are there any one-offs? From Q3 to Q4, one major change that happened was export duty was removed in Q3, end of Q3. Q4 onwards, the export market again opened up for us, and we were able to book some orders at higher margin at export level, which we were not able to do in the previous months. That was one of the major reasons that led to this EBITDA increase. But that is not reflecting in our realization. I was wondering- Yes. ...that, if there were any other reason. No. like corresponding to the raw material price, you are right, there was some pressure on the margin still. We were not been able to pass on immediately the entire raw material increase. That's the reason, the corresponding realization you are not showing that much of increase as compared to the raw material cost of. To that extent, there was some pressure on the margin, but I think, as we said, there will always be some sort of time lag to this movement. That was because of this reason. No. Fair enough, sir. Sir, my second is just attaching to this. This kind of margin is sustainable or what kind of average guidance you would like to give us going forward? Around INR 20,000 per ton is achievable. Understood, sir. Our guidance, because since we are in the beginning of the year and still there are a lot of talk about US debt crisis and all these things. Considering that, we are saying that, giving a bit range of the margins for the full year, which is INR 19,000-INR 21,000. Understood, sir. Sir, my second question concerned to JUSL. We are increasing capacity there, but at the same time some of our customers like JFE and Tata are getting their own rolling mills. How do we look at the situation from there we will get the additional zoning outside the contracts, and how does it impact us in the near term? JUSL business model is not dependent at all on the outside tooling. In fact, if it comes, it always will be add-on EBITDA addition. The business model, which we have the EBITDA, which we have delivered this time also, was actually almost without tooling. Or some part of tooling initially, but not much. It's not really at all dependent. It's not that if the capacity is idle, it burns some cash. No, that's not the case, because with JSL volume, it's quite sustainable tooling arrangement. Understood, sir. Sir, just one last question. Looking at our CapEx and our cash flow right now, is it safe to assume that we will continue to pare down debt going forward also? This year, not really. I would say the way to look at it, our ratio will not likely to deteriorate. However, because we have a CapEx outflow, bunching up of around INR 2,500 crore. In fact, we have already reduced. If you see as compared to December number also, we have further reduced. We have actually In the net debt, we have built up some of the cash, which will also go for funding these INR 2,500 crore. Those INR 2,500 crore will largely be internal accrual, but intermittent period the debt could go up by around INR 500-INR 700 CR. Understood, sir. Thank you for answering my question. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Ashish Kejriwal with Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity and many congratulations for good set of numbers. Three questions for me. One is about the volume growth, because you mentioned that, you know, if Europe revives, is it possible that if export market revives, we can do better than what we are guiding right now in terms of volume in FY 2024? Yes, definitely. If we see exports picking up and U.S. economy and E.U. economy drastically improving, definitely we can give a higher guidance because capacity we have. It is just depending on the market, we will ramp up faster, slower. Okay. Okay. Secondly, obviously, in terms of balance sheet, we have sufficient or we have debt which is very much in control. By looking at the cash flows and the guidance which we are giving for next two years in terms of volume as well as EBITDA per ton, definitely there will be more free cash flows which will be generated. My question is not about the further expansion, but are you looking for any inorganic acquisition also? Sometimes like, you know, Indonesia project or something within the stainless steel, anything? Definitely, anything that comes on the cards related to our business. We are not going to get into any kind of diversification where we're entering into some FMCG or IT or some kind of those type of businesses. Anything that helps us increasing our stainless steel business or reducing our cost or some raw material security, those are the areas we want to focus. We want to further strengthen our position, improve our quality, bring down cost. Anything that helps us in these two, three areas is what we look at in inorganic. There is nothing on the cards right now. We mentioned, we have just done this Indonesia investment, plus we've also acquired Rathi Super Steel. That is enough for us to work on for the next one and a half years at least. You know, if any good inorganic opportunity comes up in the country, then we're definitely going to be participating in it related to our business. Sure. Sir, lastly, because, you know, you said that now related to our business if some opportunity comes in. Related to that, we know that, you know, under promoters company, I think we are setting up one blast furnace. It's costing, I think, INR 4,000 crore+, which earlier we were trying to get into JUSL, but now under promoters company. My question is, one, is it possible to share how we are going to fund it? I understand that that's not under JSL, but, you know, understanding about the promoters debt also is important for us. My question is how we are going to fund it, in future do we think that two year, three year down the line once we commission that, because it's more remunerative for us in terms of lowering our cost, we will try to club it with JSL? JSL funding of that project, frankly, it's not really a question of discussion here, I can tell you it's broadly a two is to one funded project. Promoters are putting their own equity and balance is debt. Your second question, we already replied that idea is that to make JSPL as a more ESG on a high ESG scores. We don't intend to have a blast furnace in JSL. That's the reason blast furnace was not put up over here. In fact, further to strengthen our ESG thing, what we have also said is that the new capacity expansion which we have done will be completely powered by renewable power. There's no nothing on the card right now that to bring that asset over here, and it does not make any synergies also from this asset. No plans for right now. Understood. Thank you, and thanks for this clarification. That's really helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Kirtan Mehta with BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for giving this opportunity. Just wanted to confirm one part in terms of the FY 2024 guidance. Kirtan, I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but we are not able to hear you clearly. Is this better now? Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of the volume guidance for 20% increase in this year or volume guidance of 20% increase, is it inclusive of the Rathi Super Steel or would there be additional growth once that integrates? No, it is not inclusive of Rathi. This is purely on flat products. Rathi is too early. In fact, we just started a smaller operation. I think this year we don't see Rathi adding much into the profile. Though good news is that we started one smaller mill started, but the larger operation will only start at the end of this. End of the year. End of this financial year. Right. In terms of the volume guidance, what could be potential downside risk to our 20% guidance at this stage? While I understand that the capacity is fully ready, but do you see any variables which could pull it down below 20% in any circumstances? Not looking likely because, you know, anyway, stainless steel is growing at a very fast pace with the kind of investments coming in India for infrastructure, railways, other sectors. It's not looking from a volume perspective. Yes, if now export does not pick up, I will still commit to the volume guidance. Yes, maybe margins can come under pressure if export is not available to us. Other than that, I don't think so, there should be any reason for dip. Right. Just one more follow-up. In terms of the volume mix at this point of time across different segments like railway, automotive, would you be able to sort of share the FY 2023 volume mix across different segments? As a rule, we generally don't cater more than 15% to 18% to any sector. You know, with the volume also growing and the market also growing, I would say the percentage share in each sector is going to remain the same. If anything specific changes, then I will ask the team to get back to you with some specifics. Generally, this is what is looking like in the future as well. Thank you, Abhyuday, for the clarifications. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Sunil Singhania with Abakkus. Please go ahead. Hi, Abhyuday and Anurag. Congratulations. Hi, Sunil. Sir, a few, clarifications. You know, our current debt is now around INR 2,600 crores. This INR 2,500 crores of CapEx which we talked about, includes the debt also of JUSL. Is it correct? No. That includes the debt of acquisition of JUSL, not the JUSL debt per se. INR 958 crore consideration. That includes the INR 900 crores, right? Yeah, yeah. INR 900 crores. INR 958 crore of consideration. INR 100 crore when you talk about JUSL, can you just clarify? That would be like INR 900 crores of debt for the acquisition. What else will go in that INR 2,500 crores? RKEF, we talked about. Indonesia investment. Indonesia investment. JUSL. That is over two years. That is what we have said. Yeah. Around INR 800 crore of RKEF investment could come because they are building. Generally, these models get built up, but right now it's INR 800 crore which we have taken. Over two years. No, no. Total RKEF investment is around close to INR 1,300 crore-INR 1,400 crore, depending on the currency, $157 million. INR 1,700. 1,300. Okay. That's it, right? It's not INR 2,500 crores, it's INR 1,300 crores. No, no. Okay. Let me repeat that. Indonesia investment will be around INR 1,300 crore. Over two years. Out of which INR 800 will be this year, INR 500 next year. Correct. Yeah. See, it's a construction-based milestone payment depending on the progress. Right now, INR 800 crore this year. Yeah. Okay. Plus INR 900 for JUSL equity, that is INR 1,700 crores. Right. Around there is a spillover CapEx. If you recall the earlier CapEx, we said INR 200 crore CapEx was anyway to be done in FY 2024 for the expansion because the last installments. There is also some spillover LC payment which will further accrue in this, around INR 400 crore. There is a maintenance and sustenance CapEx, which includes INR 75 crore of RAKE investment, further investment, around INR 400 crore-INR 500 crore. Say around INR 500 crore. The number comes INR 2,600, we are guiding INR 2,500. That basically this will be met from internal accruals of Jindal Stainless, but there will be also reduction of debt in JUSL out of their own internal accruals, right? Correct. Absolutely. The overall debt should go down. It will not go up na. You're guiding that it will go up by INR 500 crore. It should go down by INR 500-INR 600 crores. Depending on the payment timing, that's why we said, Sunil, intermittent period it could go up because we are not saying that. I'm talking about end of year, not intermittent period. End of the year, depending on the payment, it may come back to the same levels, I would say. Okay. Okay, fair enough. Okay, I'm done. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Chetan Shah with Jeet Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks, sir. Just Just one small broader question. Can you give us some sense on what's happening in the international market? Because you kind of explained that we are little wary to give a aggressive guidance, both in terms of volume growth in export front and also in terms of the EBITDA per ton, looking at how the global situation is as of now. If you, if we assume a steady state or a normalized situation in next quarter or so, do you think that we will revise it into a second half of the current financial year? Any sense of FY 2025, because now we have a reasonable clarity of cash flow and the CapEx outflow for all the things which is there on the platter. How do we see FY 25, both in terms of the volume and in terms of the size and the look of the balance sheet? That'd be very helpful. Chetan, I think, because the way these economies are progressing, it's a month-to-month kind of situation. Already from our customers, we are getting positive signals. You know, until it does not start reflecting, I don't want to overcommit. Definitely, you know, we do feel that we can do better if these economies pick up. Till now, the current situation is still in the destocking mode. You know, even though the levels have come down, that is why the discussion with our customers, and interest in already starting booking orders and negotiation has started. Has it gone to, let's say, pre-export duty levels? No, it has not reached that level at all. That's why I don't want to overcommit right now. FY 2025 from a volume guidance, we definitely do a 20% to 25% jump over FY 2024. That looks quite, you know, clear to us. By that time, Gary, it's quite clear even the U.S. and Europe should be up and running by then for sure, if not in H2 of this year. Sir, one small clarification. In terms of, we do in JUSL last year because our planted JSL was not ready, so we were doing a trading part of the business. Do you think if there is a reasonable demand and ramp-up is not happening up to the mark or there is a mismatch, we would not be hesitant to do the same even in the current year? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, either through our capacity or through three means, we will meet our volume guidance. Got it. Either way, things are open to us. If market is further doing. Correct. Correct. Sir, last question, more of a bookkeeping. Can you share 200 Series, 300 Series and 400 Series mix for the full financial year? How was the mix look like? For full financial year, for 200 Series was, I'm talking about combined entity level. 34%. Yes. Was 200 Series, 300 was 43% and 400 was 24%. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one. Our next question comes from the line of Ritesh Shah with Investec Capital Services. Please go ahead. Hi. A couple of questions. Far as first, Mankeshwar, the guidance what you gave of INR 19,000-INR 21,000 per ton, I would presume it excludes anything from JUSL. Would that be fair? Yes, yes. Absolutely. Perfect. Coming to JUSL, is it possible if you could give the tonnage number that we had for 2022 and 2023? How do we look at that number for 2024 and 2025? Any broad ballpark numbers? JUSL tonnage for this year is should be taken exactly what we will be doing at Jajpur plant. Now we do sometime of the trading volumes also. Tonnage, I think more than tonnage, let me put the EBITDA number to JUSL, which will be helpful because that will go on the combined tonnage of JSL as a EBITDA per ton enhancement. What we are saying based on the JSL tonnage, what we are guiding, JUSL should add around INR 3,500 EBITDA per ton additionally. JUSL may be doing around INR 800 crore-INR 850 crore of EBITDA this year, depending on what kind of volumes we play. Will we have numbers for FY 2023, or would it be around like 1.4 million, 1.5 million, 1.6 million tons? I'm just trying to look at the spreads over there. I think in the past we had entered at the number of around INR 2,500, INR 5,000, INR 6,000. I was just trying to pencil in that number and then extrapolate something out of that. Yeah. Around 1.4 million tons was the volume in JUSL for FY 2023. Frankly, it doesn't give you any of the insight because it has also the, some of the, direct selling of the cold rolled material which we have because it has a small cold rolled unit. The margins are very different. That's why I think blended number of EBITDA will be more insightful, but just to give you, that's the number. Right. I'll absolutely buy into your guidance. What I wanted to understand is the confidence that we get to actually toll that extra volumes, given JSPL is also commissioning FSM, I think by second quarter of this particular fiscal. I'm not sure of how much tonnage we did for JSPL. The question is, where do we get the confidence of the number of INR 700 crore, INR 800 crore, INR 900 crore? That's what I'm saying. This year, if you see, we are not banking on any of the external tolling arrangement. Let me tell you, I think this, the number guidance which we are giving is purely based on the JSL business model. Anything which comes, we really are not banking. You are absolutely right, it may not come also because everybody is building their own capacity. There are certain still pipelines. Anyway, irrespective to that, see, we did INR 700 crore+ this year, and next year we are expecting. We did actually INR 712 crore. Next year we are, with the volumes increase of our own, we are expecting at least INR 800 crore-INR 850 crore is the achievable EBITDA in JUSL. Sure. My last question was to Mr. Abhyuday. Sir, we have spoken a lot about ESG, I absolutely buy into the economic rationale of the Indonesian investment with beautiful payback. When you look at the ESG aspect over here, I think the things are very, very murky. If you look at the global OEMs, automotive guys, they have been actually running away from the Indonesian nickel, both sulfate as well as nickel matte. Given one is the quality of ore, and secondly, how power and carbon intensive the products are. I understand it might fall in Scope three emission, but honestly, I look at Scope one, two, and three together. How do we balance this particular act of economic sovereignty here? Ritesh, the challenge is that we are not competing with the Europeans. We are competing with the Chinese and Indonesians. When we are competing with these players, then we have to go to that level and that degree of costing to compete with them. You know, because there are limited markets available, there is protection everywhere that is coming in despite ESG there or not there. We actually need to continuously keep working on our cost, keep working, and we are working on both sides. It's not that we are only working on cost reduction and not working on ESG. Everything that we are doing from power, energy, is all going to be on renewable, you know, renewable basis. It's definitely a concern area. It is something that we are already taking it up with government of India also, and there have been a lot of discussions happening at EU level. We have to look at the whole world in totality. We cannot just look at EU and not look at our Chinese counterparts. You know, looking at this angle, looking at the way the Chinese companies, Indonesian companies have started dominating the market, we felt that some level of security was definitely required. With that logic and with the payback period, we felt that it makes sense to go for this transaction despite the Scope three issue. You know, Scope three also, like you're saying, even from what, EU has announced, Scope three is still quite some time away. They are also, even in 2026 when duty does start, it will be basically on Scope one, Scope two, then Scope three will come into play much later on. You know, that would be sort of my two cents on this. Right. And just to extend the question, how are we actually looking to play the CBAM implementation once it actually gets implemented say 2025? I think theoretically it starts from October this year. Where are we on carbon intensity on Scope one and two, and what are the benchmarks for Europe right now? Will we attract any penalties if we continue to put metal into Europe? As of now, till 2026 it will not get any duty. It is now from October onwards is when we need to start disclosing, and then is when all this reporting will start. We are also waiting for who is the authority, who is the identified agency who will come and start calculating all these things. From our side already, if you go on our website also, we have clearly come up and come out with our own sustainability, how do I term it? Sustainability. Sustainability pitch or sustainability for-way forward for us. We've already come out with our guidance on it. You know, it is available for the public to go and see. We are already reporting, we're already coming out with all our workings. We're already working from Scope three perspective. Other than if I take out this Indonesia thing, already working with all our other suppliers, that if you need to be in business with us in 2025, already these are the areas where you guys need to start working on ESG, because we don't want any or we want to reduce the border of Scope three impact. You know, from all areas, it's a very, very important topic. It's a big concern area for us. We're keeping in line and we're keeping one eye on what's happening in EU. The minute all these things clarify, we have a full team sitting, waiting, geared up towards working towards this. Ritesh Shah, also add that also there are discussions that since we already have a electric arc furnace and scrap-based production. The target setting and those should be in commensurate with that. Because it should not happen that it becomes a winner's curse. That if somebody has already put up the facilities like that and then start competing on the guys who have a blast furnace-based facility. There are multiple discussions which are happening. Since European players are also similar production base, there are I'm talking about the steelies team. There are multiple discussions happening on the background onto this. From our perspective, since we are electric arc furnace-based and scrap-based production, I think it looks quite comfortable as compared to the other guys. Just as a further thing, there is, I mean, world's biggest steel technology conference that happens once in, I think, three or four years. We have a very, very big team this time going, and the major focus is green steel. At the end of, let's say, June and July, we will have further sort of information because big team is going to be based in Europe, working on green steel, working on all these reporting matrices. Then it's a journey. You know, there is whatever we could do till now we have already completed and we have done. As and when more questions are asked and demanded from EU side, we will keep answering. Perfect. I'll just squeeze one. I think Indonesian investment makes a lot of sense. If I look at headline numbers, I think the CapEx intensity will be around $40,500. What we understand the EBITDA over here could be around $4,000-$5,000. Honestly, I don't understand how this number of $4,000-$5,000 actually comes in, because if the payback is so beautiful for 4 years, I think a lot of players would be actually jumping in over here. Is it something that we are missing on the risk side? That's what I wanted to understand over here. You are right. Actually frankly, this is an this model got established over a period of time. There are, like Nickel Industries you already talked, which is Australian listed company, they have been operating more than... So there are more than 100 kilns. We are only taking two kilns. It's a very well-established model. It's like a tolling arrangement sort of model, which has been proven like that. Therefore the payback looks attractive. Obviously the, obviously the thing is that they remain 51%, so it's not that everybody could go to this type of partnership. We wanted that way because we don't want to get into the operations of that. For us, that's more an advantage, we were looking that sort of investment. Any specific reason to do it now? Because I understand the technology is like 60 years old. Payback is too good. Why is it now? Are there any specific risks that we should be aware of, either pertaining to technology or regulatory or political? No, I think, there's no technology risk. In fact, there's a tax holiday over there. Even the tax holiday goes, we have built in this plant the optionality to get into nickel matte, in fact, which goes into the EVs battery chain. Some of these ESG will also get nullified from there. Tax holiday for us will continue. For tax holiday will, for us will continue, even if they have a NPI-based tax holiday withdrawn, which I think they have already done the withdrawal. We knew about it, and we have built the optionality to get into the nickel matte in this. The cost includes that. Perfect. Thank you so much for the answers, wish you all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Ritwik Sheth with One Up Financial Consultants. Please go ahead. Hi. First of all, congrats to the entire team for an extraordinary execution over the last decade, since getting into CDR and now paying the first dividend after 15 years. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Yeah. Sir, I have a couple of questions. Firstly, you mentioned in the middle of the call that, you know, if there are any cost saving measures or increasing some value addition in our portfolio, we could look at that. Is there anything on the cards that we are working on? See, that I said from a acquisition perspective, but in terms of cost saving measures, it's a everyday phenomenon. You know, we continuously because we are continuously working on, you know, reducing. We have to compete, like I was saying, with the Chinese and Indonesians, and our country is totally open to Chinese dumping. If we don't work on cost, we will always be at a back foot. One area where we are making huge inroads is from the logistics side, because that is one area where also Government of India is committing that huge reduction in logistic cost will come. We are also keeping ourselves ready and in line and bringing a lot of efficiencies from that angle. Okay. Nothing, imminent, that we are working on. If there's any opportunity there... No, no, there is no acquisition in terms of that will help us in reducing costs. Technology adoption and technology usage, you know, it's continuous thing. Right. Right. Obviously entering into new sectors, growing the market. All that is a continuous thing. I mean, this is nothing new or unique. Auto never stops. Like new grades, last time we shared, and things like, lift and elevator, we were working on, competitive, lower cost new grades. Lift and elevator, railway new grades, for your, nuclear sector, defense sector. I mean, every area. New grades are continuous, as part of our R&D pipeline. Sure. Sure. Okay. My second question is on the exports. You know, we've done 13% exports in the quarter just after, you know, the withdrawal of export. That's a good figure, I guess. Amongst the steel players, we are on the higher end. You know, which geographies are we exporting to? Any specific product profile that we are seeing good demand for? No export. We mainly major export is 300 Series and 400 Series for us. With the size and the brand name and the quality that we have, we are kind of covering the entire gamut of the world. Main focus has always been U.S. and EU. Now Middle East has picked up for us. South America has picked up for us. Korea, South Korea has picked up for us in a very big way. These are new markets also we're looking at. As always, the major focus is on EU and U.S. Okay. Okay. Sure. What would be the export percentage for FY 2024 on this 2.15 million-2.2 million tons? You can say around 15% to 20%, depending on how the markets perform and they pick up. At the end of the year, around 15% to 20%, you can say. Sure. Okay. My last question is on the expansion from further on. You know, there have been a couple of questions in the call and previously also. Just wanted a sense, you know, what would be the timelines if we decide, say, on day one of a calendar year, what would be the timeline to execute another one million ton at Jajpur? If you could give us some sense. I mean, in terms of when we after deciding the construction phase can take up to almost one and a half to two years, it's the decision point we will only start exploring next year, I can say. Right now we have enough on the cards. Mm-hmm. Only next year we will start the discussion when or how or where to expand. Right. Okay. Sir, just one more question. What would be the maintenance CapEx for on an annual basis, including JUSL for FY 2024, if you can say? It will be around INR 500 crore. 500. Typically, it ranges between... Yeah. Okay. This is including JUSL. Maintenance and sustenance. I include both actually. Not only maintenance. Okay. Okay, fine. Okay, fine. All the best, thank you, sir. No, no. Thank you. Our next question comes from Amit Dixit with ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for taking my question, Karim. I have two questions. One is on the Rathi Su perpower. Now, we are going to invest some INR 75 crores this year on this asset. What kind of headline numbers we can expect in terms of volumes, in terms of EBITDA per ton, if you can mention? See, Amit, this year, not likely because the larger capacity, as we said, will be only operational by end of this year. Having said that, good news that some part we could start earlier than our expectation also. Let's see how it progresses well. Right now we would say let's not take anything on the EBITDA and top line net this year. The capacity is around 162,000 metric ton. Obviously, there are various approvals and all these things we'll have to work it out on bringing this entire capacity into the production. Let's wait for some time, and we'll give you more guidance as this progresses on this. What was the mix, in this quarter? 200, 300, 400? This quarter was around 200 was around 35%. 300 was 44% and 400 was 20%. ...you know, This year, of course, you know, the guy, the mix has been little bit, you know, towards 200 mainly because export duty possibly was there. Right. Sorry for bulk of the year. Going ahead, I would expect that since you are focusing on domestic market more, export proportion is likely to be 15% and domestic market gives you that much leeway in 300 Series, 400 Series. I guess in FY 2024 we would go back to, let us say, FY 2022 days when 200 Series went below to 20% or something. Is it correct assumption? See. Okay. Amit, I just wanted to highlight one point here. This mix what Mr. Mantri just said, it's a commercial entity mix, so including JSL and JSHL. If you recall, JSHL, the share of 200 Series always used to be on a higher side. Mm-hmm. When you merge the two entities, so this is the mix which it looks like. Yeah. To answer your question, I would request Mr. Mantri say again. That's one is that because of the combined JSHL 200 Series mix was higher and obviously some part of the year, because as we are increasing the volume also, so 200 Series will also be there. I would say mix is very dynamic. Our focus always remains... EBITDA maximization. You know, it can fluctuate and vary. Absolutely because Hisar has a big 200 Series pie with it, so that's why it's looking higher now. Yeah, but because of the specialized products, you know, Hisar for few quarters it had higher EBITDA per ton even than JSL. The point I was trying to make actually that this 19,000-21,000 per ton guidance that you have in FYQ4, we achieved a higher number than this 21,000, it was 610. Don't you think this is a little bit of conservative guidance at this point in time? Or you are waiting for certain things to unfold and then, you know, maybe you can up this guidance two quarters down the line. Amit, you know, you know us for very long. We are always a conservative company. You know, we like to perform rather than commit. Definitely we feel we can do better, but looking at the situation, these are the guidance we would like to convey. No, very well appreciated. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Bhavin Chheda with ENAM Holdings. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. Congrats on excellent turnaround. One of the best turnarounds in the steel industry from restructuring, creating three, four companies and now ultimately merging it when most of the companies had turnaround. Now few questions on the merged entity, how it looks like. First is, if I understand, sir, the payment of JUSL for 74% is pending, right? Entire payment is pending, right? It will happen in first quarter, right? Yeah. The transaction will be completed in this quarter. I think we'll complete in next two, three weeks time. Okay. The starting date which we should work on is INR 2,900 crores + INR 1,900 crores+ INR 950. That's the right number, right? No. I would say, net debt number of JSL was INR 2,600 crore, INR 2,591 crore. Exactly, I'm giving the rounded off number. Plus INR 3,380 also I'm counting. Okay. Subsidies, if you are counting, that's a INR 380, but that's only working capital debt, let me tell you. It's not included in that. We include both. Including working capital, what I'm trying to count. Okay. If you are saying that then, yes, 2971, one will be the number. INR 29 plus INR 1,956 is in JUSL and plus INR 957 you have to pay, right? No, no. 1956 in JUSL, absolutely right. INR 950 I'm not saying it will be a debt. The INR 950 is included in the INR 2,500 crore number which we said and against that we said that how to fund this INR 2,500 crore, largely it will come from internal accrual. During that intermittent period, depending on the timing, it can go the increase or decrease by INR 500-700 crore. Anurag, I'm coming to that. The INR 2,500 CapEx guidance what you have given includes INR 950 payment to be made for JUSL 74%. Yes. Okay. net of that, your overall CapEx is INR 1,500 crores, which includes Indonesia INR 700 crores. around INR 750, INR 800. INR 700-800 crores. Right. Ex of Indonesia, stainless steel CapEx spending is just INR 700 crores, right? Yeah, I mean, it includes around INR 400 crore is the pending CapEx for the previous expansions. We have close to INR 400 crore-INR 500 crore sustenance and maintenance CapEx, which includes Rathi CapEx of INR 75 crore. Sure. When in the opening remarks, you indicated that, I think you're expecting INR 500 crore plus debt or largely flattish. On what debt number are you guiding this for March 2024? There are too many numbers. What I look at it is I am starting your April balance sheet at INR 5,700 crore debt. I don't know what debt number you will refer to, because by the end of first quarter, you will be roughly INR 5,700-INR 5,800 crore debt. Did you, when you're mentioning that there would be no debt repayment or, INR 400-INR 500 crore, is it from that number or which number you're referring from? Okay. JSL and JUSL, Because I'm confused with your number also. Let me put my number also into this please. I'll just clarify, sir. INR 2,591 plus INR 380 is INR 2,971 right now at March 2023. INR 950, anyway you have to pay by June, I'm adding that INR 950, which comes to INR 3,921 and another INR 1,950 of JUSL, which will go into the company. This makes it INR 5,873. I'm rounding up to 59. I am starting with INR 5,900 crore debt number, which will be a June 30 number. By June 30, when the JUSL transaction will be over. From this number, how will your March 2024 look like? Because from this number I'm expecting a substantial reduction. I don't know from which number you meant that there would be no reduction, because on 2 million guidance and 20,000-21,000 guidance plus INR 700-INR 800 crores in JUSL, you are heading for INR 5,000 crore EBITDA and a CapEx of less than INR 1,000 crores. There has to be INR 2,000-INR 2,500 crore repayment. Okay. If you are taking from INR 5,900 crore number, it will be a reduction. There's no answer short because, let me put you where your calculation. INR 950 crore you are assuming that we'll be funding completely from debt. There is no- Either debt or cash flow no? I'm counting your cash flow from the EBITDA, na. Let's assume that you take the debt or whatever. Your operational cash flow will be used for debt repayment. From your INR 5,900 crores you are taking, yes, there would be a reduction from that number. There will be substantial reduction. When you meant INR 400-500 crores increase or decrease, which number you were taking for the debt? I I believe 2,600. Yeah. I said is that it was on a standalone basis of INR 2,600 and INR 1,956. From INR 2,600 you said that you are looking at INR 400-INR 500 crores increase. Basically you are looking at merged entity INR 3,000 crore debt by March 2024. That is fine. That is my number also. You were looking from INR 2,600 odd crores. Yeah, I think. Maybe I'll put your number because I think you put too many numbers. INR 5,900 crore you are taking the number, there would be a debt reduction from that. We are not intending to reach INR 5,900 crore at all. Okay. Okay. That's because you must have taken first quarter cash flow also, which I take separately. I'm just looking at starting debt payment after the merger process is complete. Okay. Right. Okay. Just one last question. On JUSL, you are looking to improve this EBITDA number, next year when it gets merged and your 19-21 guidance doesn't include JUSL EBITDA. That will be over and above the INR 21,000 or INR 20,000 per ton EBITDA, whatever you do. Yes. That will add to around What we said is INR 3,500 crore of additional INR 3,500 EBITDA per ton of additional EBITDA on combined on JSL volume. JUSL, what volumes you are looking at? No, the 3,500 is on based on JSL volumes. Okay. On JSL. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached to the end of the question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you everyone for attending this call. It is our agility in sales and operation planning, extensive use of digitization for faster and more efficient decision making across the value chain along with dynamic product mix, which helped us deliver robust performances. Going forward, we will continue to strategize business as per market dynamics. I hope we've been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Please feel free to contact our investor relations team for further clarification. Thank you so much. Have a good day. Thank you. On behalf of Investec Capital Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.