Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Jindal Stainless Limited Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call, hosted by IIFL Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participants' line will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thanks, Sajal, and welcome, everyone, to Jindal Stainless Limited fourth quarter earnings conference call. From the management, we have Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, Managing Director for JSL; Mr. Tarun Khulbe, CEO; Mr. Anurag Mantri, CFO; and Ms. Shreya Sharma, Head of Investor Relations. To start off, I'll hand it over to the management for the opening comments, and then we can move on to the Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Anupam. Good afternoon, everyone, and a warm welcome on the call. We have shared our Q4 FY 2024 earnings presentation in the stock exchanges, which is also available on the company's website, and today's call discussion will be on the same line. Please note, some of the information on this call may be forward-looking in nature and is covered by the disclaimer on the Slide 2 of the earnings presentation. Now, I would like to hand it over to our Managing Director, Mr. Abhyuday Jindal. Over to you, sir. Thank you, and good afternoon to everyone, and welcome to the Q4 FY 2024 earnings call. I'll first discuss the key business highlights of the quarter, following which Anurag will take you through our operational and financial performance. As we ramped up our operations in Jajpur unit, Q4 FY 2024 witnessed record-breaking delivery volumes, with a notable 23% increase in sales volume for FY 2024 compared to FY 2023. In the domestic market, we experienced strong demand across all major segments. The railway sector, in particular, saw unprecedented growth, achieving its highest ever sales in the wagon segment, while demand for passenger coaches and metro remained robust. Additionally, the auto, pipe and tube, and lift elevator segments, as well as other special grade segments, also witnessed substantial demand. On the export front, our key markets continued to see muted demand along with geopolitical issues, such as the one unfolding in the Red Sea. These challenges have had an impact on our export performance and prevented us from optimizing our sales mix. These issues, coupled with the continuous and steep fall in nickel prices, have impacted our margins in Q4 FY2024. Now, I would like to discuss our recent expansion announcement. We have announced a total expansion CapEx of around INR 5,400 crores. With these acquisitions and investments, we have orchestrated a plan to become one of the largest stainless steel producers in the world. This comprehensive expansion plan targets the melt as well as downstream balancing facilities, which include collaboration with a Singapore entity for setting up a 1.2 million tons per annum stainless steel melt shop in Indonesia, wherein JSL will hold a 49% stake with an outlay of around INR 700 crores. The joint venture in Indonesia promises optimal speed and ensures the security of raw materials. We are acquiring a 54% stake in Chromeni Steel, which is located in Mundra, Gujarat. The transaction entails an outlay of INR 1,340 crores, comprising the takeover of existing shareholder debt at around INR 1,295 crores and balance towards equity purchase. Additionally, we have decided to invest around INR 1,900 crores for the enhancement of downstream facilities in Jajpur, aligning with the SMS facility in Indonesia, which will become operational at the same time. Alongside this, a nearly INR 1,450 crore outlay has been earmarked for improving and upgrading our overall infrastructure and additional and other sustainability-related projects in tandem with the expansion plans. Further, I would like to highlight that aligning with Atmanirbhar Bharat mission of Government of India, it is our constant endeavor to substitute imports in critical areas. I'm happy to share that our strategic arm, Jindal Defence and Aerospace, successfully developed and supplied special alloy sheets for defense projects for enhancing the Indian Navy's anti-submarine warfare capabilities and for many other aerospace projects. On the import side, imports from China continue to surge, with around 20% increase on a year-on-year basis. With a consistent increase in Chinese dumping, the stainless steel market in India continues to be flooded by substandard exports, threatening the MSME sector and disrupting the level playing field needed for fair competition. I would also like to share that as an organization committed to ESG goals, in March 2024, we inaugurated India's first green hydrogen plant in the stainless steel sector. We have also officially announced a commitment to the near-term science-based emission reduction, and net zero targets outlined by the global climate action body, SBTi, Science Based Targets initiative, which is a significant step towards achieving carbon neutrality. With this, I would like to hand over to Anurag to discuss the operational and financial performance. Thank you, Abhyuday. Good afternoon, everybody, and warm welcome to the call. As highlighted by Abhyuday, we delivered a strong volume amidst the challenging global scenario. Let me discuss the detailed operational and financial performance during quarter four FY 2024 and FY 2024 full year.... We delivered the highest ever sales volume of 570,362 metric tons in quarter four, increased by 12% on YoY and 11% on quarter-over-quarter basis. Accordingly, we had a strong sales volume growth of 23% in FY 2024, leveraging the strong domestic demand through our flexible business model. The standalone quarter four revenue increased by 5% on QoQ to INR 9,521 crores. Quarter four EBITDA and PAT stood at INR 827 crores and INR 476 crores respectively. The full year, FY 2024 standalone revenue increased by 9% YoY to INR 38,356 crores. EBITDA and PAT stood at INR 4,036 crores and INR 2,531 crores respectively. On the subsidiaries and associates side, I would like to update that our domestic, our subsidiaries have performed well and adding to a total net debt, net EBITDA of INR 208 crores. The operational losses in overseas subsidiaries are also reduced and one-off adjustment Indonesia, we have one-off adjustment of INR 37 crores on account of the liquidation process. To update on consolidating our stake in the Spain subsidiary, Iberjindal, I'm happy to share that we have acquired 30% equity stakes, i.e., 300,000 shares of face value of rupees each at EUR 0.10 per share, with a total consideration of EUR 30,000. Accordingly, we now hold 95% stake in the Spain subsidiary. With regard to divestment of a stake in JCL, the company has divested 4.87% stake and exploring the option to divest the balance 21.12% stake, which will be completed by 30th September. I am happy to share that Board of Directors have recommended a final dividend payment of INR 2 for FY 2024, subject to approval of shareholders, taking the total dividend payment for FY 2024 to INR 3, which is 12.50%, per equity share with a face value of INR 2 each. As you know, we have recently announced the new expansion CapEx of INR 5,400 crore and revamp CapEx of INR 275 crore to restart and re-scale up the new acquisitions of Rathi, Chromeni and Rabirun. Aggregating the total CapEx of, CapEx to INR 5,675 crore over next three years. We also have some deferred and spillover CapEx of around INR 800 crore from FY 2024. With this, the total CapEx outflow of FY 2025 is expected to be around INR 4,700 crores-INR 4,800 crores. The new CapEx is primarily to be financed through internal accrual, and we expect the closing debt of FY 2025 to be at around INR 5,100 crores-INR 5,200 crores, which is an increase of only INR 300 crores-INR 400 crores, excluding the spillover CapEx of FY 2024. We will continue to focus on healthy leverage ratios by targeting, while targeting the growth. To close, and I reiterate on the demand outlook, that we are confident of domestic stainless steel demand will continue to rise and with robust economic activities. With this, I would like to end my discussion and would request the moderator to open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, please press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. I have two questions. The first one is essentially on EBITDA per ton. So if we see in this quarter, there has been a meaningful decline. Now, if you could group the decline in three buckets, that is nickel price decline, the inferior product mix or, you know, the third one is the freight cost. So if you can just break the EBITDA per ton decline in the three buckets, that would be easier for us to understand. And what kind of trajectory do we see in Q1 FY 2025 for EBITDA per ton, especially since ferrochrome prices are up, nickel prices have started moving up, and so are the stainless steel prices? That is the first question. So on the EBITDA per ton, I mean, like, this year, normally the nickel prices fluctuate, but, as we can see that, unprecedentedly for the nine months, this year, the nickel prices continuously fall. And if you see at the quarter three, the fall was even steeper. So on one hand, while we try to minimize the impact of it by managing our supply chain in an efficient way, but this was a bit, continuous fall, for us. Then secondly, coupled with that, we were trying to maintain our volume also. Our quarter four volumes has been our highest ever. And then the third one, as we said, that the Red Sea problem, because of which our exports, freight and all, which suddenly multiplied, I will say, to our key markets of, Europe and, and the U.S. But, Q1, we, definitely see that already with the change in the nickel prices improving, we can see the things improving, and we see, the positivity here onwards, even on, EBITDA per ton. So one thing I would like to point out, you know, and this can be seen every time by studying stainless steel markets, that when nickel starts to fall the whole market actually stops, because there is no clarity, nickel, how much it will fall, what is the fall that can happen, but this is what the company has performed. Despite nickel consistently falling April to, I would say, almost January, February, of this year. You know, it has fallen consistently every month, and despite that, we have still pushed more volumes, you know, than the, than was in this chart. So that is the positive from the company side. Otherwise, in the past, always you see, with nickel falling, volume decrease always happens. But this time we have done a lot of effort to at least ensure, there is no dip in volume and there is increase in volume. And already, like Mr. Khulbe is saying, and Amit, like you were saying, already with our raw material prices inching up, we are seeing better realization. So basically on a better return front, and I'm not asking for quarter or something, for year FY 25, we, we treat our guidance of INR 18,000-INR 20,000? Absolutely. Absolutely, we're quite confident of achieving that. We are reiterating our guidance. Okay. The second question is, if you can just highlight update on the progress on the NPI project in Indonesia, and when can we expect the production at Rabirun and Rathi to commence? So NPI project, as per the original contract, as per the original JV agreement, it was supposed to get commissioned by the Q4 of FY 2025. But, I can inform that we see that early Q2 2025, we are expecting it to get commissioned. Okay. So, we would expect some kind of commercial phase also in this year, I think. Yeah. After that, it will take two to three quarters to ramp up. Okay, fine. It will absolutely, I think, little bit will start, but obviously to reach 100% capacity utilization will take two, three, four quarters. But definitely once from Q2, some commercial sales will start. So in FY 2026, actually, we expect almost to reach 90% of this utilization, which is around 25,000 tonne turnout versus the full capacity for 28,000 tonnes, which is the 200,000 14% nickel content what we maintain is of 200,000 NPI. Okay. And Rabirun and Rathi Super Steel? Rathi has started now into the rebar side, because we started earlier with the wire rods. Now we started putting the rebars on. Yeah, so on Rathi, we are almost now hitting almost 75% of our capacity, but producing more of wire rods. Rebar, we have just started, and here onwards, our rebar, which is more value-added, will be ramping up. Yeah. On month-on-month. Every month, from now, we will start reducing wire rod and start increasing our sales in rebars, which is getting us more demand also and better realization also. On Rathi, we have on Rabirun, we have just started now producing our the steel, and this also here on, but it has, we have just started it, so it will also gradually pick up, and we expect it to go to the level of 1,000-1,500 in the next couple of quarters. Rabirun is right now under more under trial run, so but we just started the plant gradually, basically, under the trial conditions. Understood. Understood. Thanks for the elaborate answers, and all the best. Thanks, Amit. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you detail a bit on the product mix, on how they changed in Q4, or if you can give some color on FY 2023 versus 2024? On the product mix, you mean series wise? Yes, 200, 300, 400. I understand also. Just give us a minute, just, let me find FY 2023 data. 2024, numbers, so, 2023 versus 2024. So in FY 2024, basically the series wise, we had a 200 series at almost 35%, close, around 35%. 300 series was close around 45%, and 400 was around 20%. Has 400 reduced on a year-on-year basis by any chance? No, I would say because in FY 2023 it was actually just 14%. Okay. So basically, it's increased on 400 series. Sure. This is helpful. My second question is, 400, Ritesh, like a strategy, like we've discussed, so every time we want to only increase 400, so more applications, you know, more areas of supply we are trying to create for 400 series. Perfect. Sir, my question is more, say, with a three or four year view, after the CapEx announcement of what we already had, are we looking at any major growth CapEx for, say, next three years, four years? Or is it something like we should look at maintenance CapEx only, I think? Hello? It is definitely, Ritesh, it is definitely in our plans that after, let's say this investment that we have just announced, looking at the growth coming in India, looking at domestic demand requirements, we are very bullish on tender story. So definitely after three to four years, we will be coming up with a big CapEx. But at the moment, it's still too early to announce or discuss. But looking at the growth projections, looking at the demand, looking at our customer, what they are saying, it, it will definitely be required. Idea is to first exhaust this 1.2 million ton capacity expansion, which we are doing, and then we'll obviously look for, continue to look for the growth beyond that once we start exhausting those capacities. Sure. We have basically acted on JCL. The inside valuations look pretty good. Why didn't we go for the entire stake? Any timelines? I think you have given a timeline of September this year. Just wanted to get surety on that. And secondly, will the valuations be at par, or it can actually change? So, we have only done the four, around 4% stake, and balance, obviously, we are in the process, as I mentioned. Valuation will be, obviously cannot be below this, so it's expected to be at par. We are trying to optimize the cash in the hand of JSL. That's the reason it's taking some time, but it's on track. That's useful. On Chromeni, any timeline on the residual stake purchase? No, we are evaluating it, and we are open to it, evaluating it. Cannot give a timeline right now. From our side, we would like to close it ASAP, but because there are external partners that we need to deal with- Yeah. So it could take a little longer than what we want. But as from management side, if I can say tomorrow, I would like to close it. But it will take maybe, maybe a few more months or something. Perfect. And the last one, on Indonesia upstream asset sale, what is the status? How are we looking at that? Our cold rolling unit. Cold rolling unit. So that Ritesh was for the cold rolling unit, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, yes, cold rolling. Yeah. So the liquidation process has already started, Ritesh, on that. I think, as per Indonesian law, all the process and formalities, we are now on track. I think, Indonesia as a country takes some time because their compliances are much higher than what we see in India. But, it's on track, and we expect that to be closed in maybe this financial year, hopefully. Sure. This is very useful. Thank you so much. All the very best. I'll join back with you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. The question, I would want to go back to the EBITDA return to understand better the impact. Is it possible to share what was the nickel inventory valuation loss that we have accounted in this quarter? See, as we mentioned that, what happens is that when nickel is consistently falling, yeah, typically between raw material and WIP, you see, we maintain a more natural hedge mechanism, where we actually try to maintain the nickel inventories within the range to cater to our order book between raw material, WIP and FG. So balancing our order book and the sourcing time and the manufacturing time. So when typically we have seen that nickel moves in a range-bound manner, in that case, actually it recovers on overall, you don't see that much of impact. But as Vidya mentioned, is that since May, it was falling, and you saw, you saw last two quarter, we were still holding and, those, because last quarter anyway, our volumes were lower, so we could actually manage with the optimized the product mix on, on... to have a right blended EBITDA margin. But since it was a continuous fall, combined with the low export, which actually improves our blended EBITDA margin, so, because otherwise those inventories will have to sell it into the, some of the domestic market, where the margins are competitively lower, in a different segment. And also the ocean freight, which actually put up a pressure on this. So all put together, there was a close to INR 250 crore impact on these multiple events which have occurred. So INR 50 crore-INR 300 crore, I would say, impact on those. This is primarily the impact related to the nickel and not the other impact on the freight, which was additional? No, it's all inclusive. I said the freight, it includes the freight, the lower exports, on our targeted market, everything put together. The major impact is because of nickel and lesser on the freight reason. The reason the nickel had major impact was basically in the first two, three quarters, basically, we have hold on to the extra nickel inventory and which had been liquidated in Q4, and that is the reason the impact gets booked in the Q4. Is that the right understanding? No, not that- Not at all. Understanding is completely wrong. We don't hold- Yeah, our question is like, if nickel is falling during the first nine months, why do we see the higher impact in the fourth quarter? That I'm not able to sort of understand. Okay, let me try to explain, this, basically. What happens is that, when... So last quarter, actually, we should have, in Q3, we should have seen the impact, but Q3, we actually sold, if you see our volumes, we actually restricted our volumes, in that quarter. We had a plant shutdown last quarter, so actually we had volumes were on our side, that, on that part. Then suddenly, at the end of quarter three, the Red Sea crisis happened. Until that time, exports were actually going in a, which I would not say very good, but at least- 30%. Yeah, it's in the right trajectory. Immediately after the Red Sea crisis, two things have happened. One is that our current export order, we have to anyway pay the higher freight. And even the new order, we didn't just start seeing those type of EBITDA margins on the new order. So we actually stopped booking those kind of orders in our books in Q4, for which is reflected in Q4. So, when you are pushing the quantity, see, as a practice, we first exhaust the premium and high-end Indian market, like auto, railway, which we continue to exhaust, and we try to keep our highest share of wallet in those markets. Then balances remains in the between the play, between the export market, as well as on the other domestic market, other domestic segment. So when your export markets are not doing very good, obviously, then you have to play with the other domestic segment, which actually brings down the blended EBITDA. So it's a combination of, it's really not a pure math, because we don't hold any inventory. We just hold the inventory which are just required to support our sourcing time, manufacturing time, and delivery times. So that's the inventory which we have been running, and that's why we move that on a consistent basis. And, yeah, and two things I would like to add. Why you're seeing Q4 is a bigger impact, because the sharpest decline that happened in nickel was towards Q3. So that is why that impact we are seeing in Q4. That is one thing. And second thing, knowing that this impact is going to come, we as a company took a decision that we have just invested last year in expanding our capacity. And to make these machines robust, we have to push volumes. They have to do better than their rated capacity production. So and if you don't push volumes, the plant will never get ready at, or in a robust manner. So that's why, looking at Q3, little less sales volume, we want to give the confidence to the market that there is more than enough demand in our country where Jindal can cater. So let's push the volumes, let's push all our manufacturing facilities, capabilities to get ready for the good demand that we are foreseeing coming up. Right, sir. Thanks for this color. In terms of sort of understanding further the impact, so the Red Sea disruption still continues the impact on the freight into Q1, as well as the export market has not picked up that well. So how much this will weigh on the Q1 margin? So, export are going to remain under pressure because the freight cost is still high, and therefore the export EBITDA margins are not looking that great, which we would have expected. So obviously, we'll continue to push our volumes in the domestic market. But, considering all this thing, I think if you look at a full year basis, we are reiterating our guidance of 20% volume growth with the EBITDA margin of INR 18,000-INR 20,000. So you have to look at in a more longer term view. I think, at this stage, we are just reiterating those guidance. So- Q1 is expected to be better than- ...quarterly could be weaker, but over the period, basically, this would basically, ultimately, we'll be able to deliver that. Better than Q4. Q1 is going to be better because even in the export market, one is that the stabilization has happened. Because at that time, Q3, when the Red Sea happened, we were having orders which we had to, you know, serve, despite the higher ocean freight. But now the situation is more balanced comparatively. So that is why the impact of the Red Sea would be lower in Q1. Understood, sir. One more question, if I can squeeze in about the expansion. We had sort of planned for a next greenfield site to go beyond, sort of looking at the volume beyond 28, 29. So this expansion allows us probably to sort of extend the growth runway to FY 2028 or FY 2029. And typically, a greenfield site requires three to four years of advanced planning. So when do you think you would be again starting to look at the- Already work is happening, already a lot of discussions are going on. But like as a company, like you see, once we are ready, once we ourselves are confident that this is the best plan forward, then only I will come with announcement. So absolutely, like you are saying, it has this gestation period, which is why we are also cognizant of that, and already work has started. But we have enough to do right to focus on these acquisitions and expansion that we have announced. Till then, a separate team is already working on next growth phase. And, also the very fact that we have invested in Indonesia for this reason only, as you said, that it takes some time for the greenfield. So for the midterm, our requirements and to cater, we have gone for the investment in Indonesia, which is a very quick plug-and-play kind of a model over there. And as we have already announced that within two years, that plant would become operational. Thank you. Thanks for this clarification. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Ritwik Sheth from OneUp Financial. Please go ahead. Go ahead. Hi, good evening, sir. Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request you to use your handset, please? Yeah. Is this better? Yes, sir. Please go ahead. Yeah. So, few questions from my end. Firstly, on the CapEx that we are doing on Chromeni, it's a 600,000-ton CR. So, you know, is this plant operational? And, if not, then, you know, when do we expect this to get operational? And, you know, what is the roadmap for this plant? So this plant is not operational. This plant was closed somewhere in middle of 2020, and since then it is closed. But we hope that within six months' time, we should make it operational. Okay. So this will coincide, this ramp up of 600,000 tons will coincide with the Indonesia JV upstream capacity. Is that the right understanding? No, this is, this is going to come before, but, so this will be, will be serving from our existing capacity. This Chromeni acquisition is also from the strategy to increase our cold rolling capacity buildup. You know, so that is the main reason why as a company also, we are less cold rolling. With this acquisition, we are able to increase our cold rolling output. Okay. And do we need to invest- Acquisition and put together the brownfield which we are doing in Odisha we will be able to increase our downstream cold roll facility to above 65%, which are currently below 50%. Right. So, so currently, 1.4 odd million ton of downstream will go to towards 3 million ton. Is that the right understanding after two years? What was your question? What was your question? So the downstream capacity of close to 1.4 million tons currently will go close to 3 million tons in next two years with Chromeni, Rabirun, and the brownfield that we are doing at Jajpur? Not exactly. I mean, if you're combining everything, then maybe, but that is not the way we look at it, actually. Okay. So maybe there's a bit of a difference in understanding the question, I feel like. Okay. Because Ravi, now if you talk about Rabirun, it's a totally different product as compared to what Chromeni is going to make. You know? So that's why maybe I'm not understanding the question per se. Okay. So, put it in another way, what, what can be, you know, the EBITDA part- Sir, may I request you to rejoin the queue for your follow-up question? Yeah, just one follow-up on this, then I'm done. So, on this Chromeni, Rabirun, you know, what is the kind of margins that we will make on these cold rolls? That's, that's why, that's why it's a very different product mix. It is not the same product mix that I can give you an answer. Our Rabirun focus is more on pipe and tube segment, and Chromeni is a cold rolling unit. You know, so, from cold rolling side, it is clearly what we are guiding, INR 18,000-INR 20,000 for the full year. That is, Chromeni is also a part of that. Okay. Whenever it starts, you know? But for Rabirun pipe and tube, it's a different way. We don't consider that in this INR 18,000-INR 20,000 EBITDA. That is something additional that we are talking about. Okay. Sure, sir, I will get back in the queue. Thank you and all the best. Yeah, just I think more clarity to understand the different downstream products t hat will give you a better understanding. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. So, my first question was, when we are saying that we are guiding INR 18,000-INR 20,000 EBITDA per ton, so this is excluding the JUSL benefit that would be in addition to this INR 18,000-INR 20,000. Am I right? Yes. Yes. Understood, understood. And, for Q4, what would be the benefit from JUSL on our EBITDA, absolute EBITDA, if you can just give me that number? Sir, you mean to, what is the EBITDA in, for JUSL in, say, FY 2024 overall basis, we have done? Q4. Q4. For Q4. Q4 was INR 178 crore. Got it, got it. And if I may squeeze just one more question, I would like to, you know, have just an outlook on how do you see the export market improving throughout the year, and, you know, give us a better, you know, better backing for the INR 18,000-INR 20,000 EBITDA per ton. You know, that would be really helpful. Thank you so much. See, for full year export market, it's the kind of geopolitical situation and the wars going on; it's difficult to predict. We can surely say our key export markets are not to our liking at this stage in terms of the demand uptick, though we are seeing some pockets, some demand picking up. But obviously, if the export market picks up at the end of this fiscal year in H2, surely we can do actually much better, which we have proven in the past also. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah, so couple of questions. Firstly, if you can just break up the FY 2025 CapEx, which you said, INR 4,800 crore, and break it up by project, that would give a better picture. Okay. So, overall, you're moving to only FY 2025 number, right? So out of the total CapEx, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, around what we have said is that the Chromeni acquisition will go it upfront in this year, which include the shareholder loan of INR 1,340 crore, total outflow of INR 1,340 crore. The Indonesian SMS facilities with the joint venture, the outflow in this year is expected to be close to, I'm giving the number in rupees equivalent, because these are all dollar payments, so around INR 570 crore. And between HRAP and CRAP expansion, which we have announced in Jajpur, close to almost INR 650 crore-INR 700 crore will be outflowed during this financial year. Now, then there are other infrastructure, RMHS facilities, railway siding, the other CapEx which we have announced, that will be close to INR 600 crore in Jajpur. Then there is HR, we are doing some ESR and other related CapEx, which will be around INR 250 crore. And then on various ESG and renewables part, that would be close to INR 270 crore of the CapEx. And then there would be a restart and revamp CapEx for between Rabirun and Rathi and Chromeni, which is expected to be around INR 275 crore. And we have a spillover CapEx from the previous year, which is close to INR 775 crore. So all put together between INR 4,700 crore- INR 4,800 crore outflow is expected in this year. This does not include maintenance CapEx, right? What will the quantum for maintenance CapEx, the regular one? Typically, INR 500 crore what we have been maintaining, I think that's what the maintenance CapEx will be there in this year also. Overall should be INR 5,300 number, right, including maintenance? Right. Okay. And so second question is on this, INR 18,000-INR 19,000, which we do. So now that we'll source material and process material at different locations, so let's say when I'm taking slabs from Indonesia, getting it to Jajpur and then moving it to Mundra for final processing, can you broadly give a breakup of, let's say, if I'm making INR 18,000-INR 19,000 overall, what is the breakup between the three facilities in a broad way? No, we will not be able to, and we would not like to share that kind of breakup also. Because, see, the, I think the way you should look at it, it's all a balancing and it's a very dynamic. No, we cannot. It is our, it is our, whatever, trade secret or our, our production method, methodology, and we cannot give a breakup of where, what, you know, costing is coming out. In general, sir, let's say if I just take Chromeni, what will the CR line be, as a letdown? I'm not asking you to don't give a breakup, just a simple- That's why we gave a blended EBITDA rate. We don't want anybody of our competitors or anyone else to know these numbers. That is why I don't want to. Otherwise, I have no problem at all. That's why we give a blended rate of INR 18,000-INR 20,000. So, why I ask this question is, as long as you were owning 100% of everything, it was fine with us taking 19,000 ton EBITDA and giving a sort of valuation to it. Now that you own varying percentages in various stuff, it, for valuation purposes, we'll need some clarity on this aspect. So that's why this question came up. For clarity, you have also given, so I think we can take this question offline then. Sure. I will ask my team to discuss, because that gives us clarity where you want it. Like I mentioned, our target and our wish is to own 100% of Chromeni. Sure. So already, discussions are on, and we would hope and would like to close it as soon as possible. So definitely, we want to own 100%. But to answer your question, I'd ask our IR team to take it up with you separately, offline. Sure. Sure. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Tushar Chaudhari from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead. With this, investment projects happening in Indonesia, what is your- May I request you to please ask your question again? So looking at the current investments happening in Indonesia, nickel and as well as, nickel projects, what is your outlook on nickel prices over the, let's say, medium term, not in the near term. Near term is probably we have seen the uptick because of, LME ban. But, let's say in, There are a lot of, there are a lot of factors that govern the nickel market, especially now with EV battery or, less nickel consumption in EV battery. So it's a very dynamic situation. That is why we work on a natural hedge. We don't want to take any positions. We don't want to take these kind of calls. We will continue to work on a natural hedge. So nickel price is something that we really want to keep reducing it as a factor, you know? So... And to give you a prediction per se, is very difficult. I don't think so anyone in the global market will be able to give you prediction on medium-term nickel prices. Okay. Sir, second one was on NPI. I think you said NPI, we will start. I missed that portion. We will start production from second quarter of FY 2025. Q2. Q2 of this year. 2025. Okay, thanks. Thanks a lot. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you please detail the CapEx breakup for FY 2026 as well? So FY 2026, between Odisha, HR and CR capacity is close to, say, INR 700 crore-INR 800 crore, depending on obviously some timing, matters. So overall, SMS of Indonesia will be around INR 150 crore. And, the other CapEx of Jajpur, of infrastructure and, other augmentation will be close to, say, between INR 250 crore-INR 300 crore. And, on ESG renewables, the residual CapEx will be around INR 25 crore-INR 40 crore. So that's the main CapEx for the next year. So around, we are expecting that, what CapEx we are outlining right now, close to around, INR 1,200 crore-INR 1,300 crore of the CapEx next year, in FY 2026. Sure. That's useful. On the debt maturity profile, if you could give some broader numbers for 2025, 2026, 2027. See, I can share the debt maturity profile, but I can tell you, I think most of our debts are currently in an average tenor of... We have actually refinanced most of our debt, and we have actually has increased the balance sheet strength by repaying the shorter term debt. And with the same debt, we have actually now refinanced most of the CapEx last year. That's the reason you see our net debt declining. So though, so the way we have created space for our CapEx is that by repaying the shorter term loans, reducing the liability for the repayments, while not increasing the debt. So broadly now, it's almost four and a half to five year, five years for average maturity. I can share you the year-wise profile, but again, it's also in the process. We are further refinancing some of the debt, in the process of refinancing some debt. Sure. This is useful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of [Dehi] from Nivesh Investment Advisory. Please go ahead. Am I audible? Yes, sir, you're audible. Yes, please go ahead. I had this question regarding China dumping products in India. So, is the scenario still in place in Q1 and FY 2025 as well? Yeah. This, the China dumping has continued. And though we are parallelly continuously taking with the government this issue, but the fact remains that the dumping has continued. In fact, Q4, the Chinese imports in the country have increased by 24% on the quarter-on-quarter - sorry, 20%, as compared to Q3. So it's actually becoming very alarming at this stage, on the China side. As you already mentioned, are we expecting any support from the Indian government? So the dialogue is always on, and we always expect that something positive should come out, but immediately in the short term, I don't see anything. Maybe in the medium term, some relief could come, but nothing to really mention at the moment. Got it, sir. As always, I mentioned, we as an organization are not going to depend on government duty coming or not coming. Whatever guidance we give, it is despite any of this. If, if external factors support the company, we will definitely do much better. Like this time, external factors did not support us. So with support we get, we can do much better. Correct. Thank you very much. It will also largely help the MSME manufacturing ecosystem, which is very critical for us to develop the manufacturing ecosystem. Otherwise, for us larger players, because since we have access to the export market, premium players, I think for us, it's all the government support will help all the MSME sector more. Correct. Correct. Thank you very much, sir, and all the best to you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Kothari from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you hear me, JUSL? I'm sorry to interrupt you. Yeah. Why is it not clear? Too much wind at the back now. Now it's audible to you? Little better. Okay, just ask the question again, please. Yeah. For JUSL, what was the volume in quarter four and FY 2024, can you please share? JUSL volume? Okay. It is INR 454,000, the quantity the job work has been done by the JUSL for JUSL. For the full year? For the quarter four. Quarter four. For the full year, sir? It is INR 1.7 million. Okay. Thank you. Secondly, my second question regard to overall raw material cost. Can you share the breakup of the raw material cost we are having, and with overall CapEx, what we are doing with the NPI bringing in and all the other CapEx as well? How will it help in decreasing the overall raw material costs? Also, like, with the change in the overall sourcing mix, it will reduce the vulnerability towards the fluctuations in the commodity prices. Can you help me to understand it better? Kunal, you know, if I can request, because this is a very long discussion, this is actually understanding the fundamentals of our investments, and over the analyst call, it will not, we will not be able to explain like that. So if definitely you would like some clarity in this, we are more than happy to share, but I request our IR, you take it up with the IR team, and they'll give you the clarity. But you ask long questions, and it's not a, you know, one or two line answers. Got it. Sure, sir, I will take the analysis. Take it out, we'll definitely be more than happy because we are very confident in all the things that we've done, so we'll be more than happy to share. Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritwik Sheth from OneUp Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sir, thanks for the follow-up. Sir, one question on the Indonesia JV. So do we have any, right of, like, right of refusal, first right of refusal, on the 1.2 million ton, and anything on that? Yes. Yeah, yeah, we have. So we have our right of first refusal on 1.2 million tons. Full offtake, it is, it is for us to decide if we want to take 100% output, 20%, 50%. It is totally our asset, if I can say. Yeah. Right. Right. And, and the operations will be done by the JV partner, right? Correct. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And, just, you know, hypothetically, if the government puts an import duty for imports of stainless steel, so will this material that we get from Indonesia will also be taxed, or how will it work? Just wanted to understand that. So if you look at, look at it from the Indian point of view, see, for producing a stainless steel, nickel is a must, as a raw material. And in India, nickel—Okay, globally, stainless steel is produced either using the stainless steel scrap or the NPI route. So more than 60% is being used as the NPI, as a source for nickel. Now, in India, whether, if you look at the stainless steel scrap, that is not available, NPI or nickel or anything of that source is also not available. So we see a very less possibility of this, happening from the Indian government side. So chances are very less, because, practically this is kind of a raw material that we're bringing in. Like Mr. Khulbe said, either we can bring it in a scrap format or in NPI format or in a slab format also. So that is why we feel that it's unlikely the government should put, but if there is, for any reason, some duty is imposed, then we already have it in our contract with our partners of how this offtake will be sold globally then. Okay, got it. And just one last question. So last year, we spelled out the dividend payout policy that gradually will take it up to 20%. So this year it's similar to last year at 10%. So any comments on that? How do we plan to take it towards 20% in, say, next one year, two years? So, the policy remains as it is, what we described is that, since right now we actually were seeing all these CapEx coming up, so we'll have to optimize the shareholder returns. So I think the way you should look at it, I think we believe that the investment in these will actually be much value enhancement for the shareholder perspective and for the business perspective. So it's, it's all about... It's not that 100% dividend will be more return, beneficial return than the investing in the business. It's always a balance. As per our CapEx allocation policy, we always outline the three things, which include, enhancing and the growth CapEx, the, and also the dividend as a one of the part. So we are, the investment which we are doing has a very high, a good ROE and payback period. So which should be overall value enhancement for the stake, all the stakeholder perspective. Sure. Got it, sir. All the best, and thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. As this is the last question for the day, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you so much. One other point I would like to reiterate, before my closing remarks is that, you know, despite this, dip in EBITDA in Q4, if you see for the full year, we guided that we'd achieve between INR 18,000 -INR 20,000, and we delivered on that. So that is something that speaks about the company's fundamentals and our, commitment that we always try to adhere to. You know, and again, I would like to also thank everyone for attending this call. We continue to remain extremely bullish on the Indian market, while we aim, aim to maintain our leadership position and ensure sustainability in sourcing, processes, and products. I hope that we have been able to answer all your questions in a satisfactory manner. As mentioned also, should you need any further clarifications, I'll be more than happy to, for you to get in touch with our investor relations team, and we'll be answering all of them. Thank you once again for attending the call, and hope to see everyone soon, physically as well. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Securities Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.