Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikas Singh from PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Sumit. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Jindal Stainless Q1 FY25 phone call. From the management side, today we have with us Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, Managing Director, Mr. Tarun Khulbe, CEO, Mr. Anurag Mantri, ED and Group CFO, and Shreya Sharma, Head of Investor Relations. Without any ado, I'll just hand over the call to Mr. Abhyuday Jindal for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Yeah, thanks, Vikas. Good afternoon, everyone, and a warm welcome on the call. We have shared our Q1 FY25 earnings presentation with the stock exchanges, which is also available on the company's website, and today's call discussion will be on the same lines. Please note some of the information on this call may be forward-looking in nature and is covered by the disclaimer on slide number 2 of the earnings presentation. Now I would like to hand it over to our Managing Director, Mr. Abhyuday Jindal. Over to you. Thank you, Shreya, and good afternoon to everyone, and welcome to the Q1 FY25 earnings call. Let me first discuss the key business highlights of the quarter ending June 2024, following which Anurag will take you through our operational and financial performance. In the domestic market, we continue to experience healthy demand across all major segments. Continuing the volume momentum, we delivered the highest ever sales in Q1 FY25, with 5% increase on a year-on-year basis. The company's co-branding scheme, Jindal Saathi 5.0, launched in Q4 FY24, aimed to create further pull for the brand in the ornamental pipe and tube segment. Similar to this co-branding scheme, which is running in its fifth year, the company is planning to roll out similar schemes in other customer-facing segments. On the export front, quarter-on-quarter basis, the sales remained flat compared to quarter ending March 2024. We continue to serve the new markets across the globe. The ongoing Red Sea issue, extended transit times and trade costs from India, and positivity of containers further affected our exports during the quarter. I'm happy to share, we have, we have also supplied special stainless steel to produce 100 Made-in-India freight wagons for Mozambique. This is a major step towards India, India's improving export capabilities and its growing prowess in manufacturing and logistics. Now let me update about Chromeni. We have completed total acquisition of Chromeni Steels Private Limited, which has a 0.6 million ton per annum cold rolling mill, located in Mundra, Gujarat, for over INR 1,600 crore. We continue to focus on operationalizing our recent expansion plans. On the ESG front, as an organization committed to ESG goals and our efforts towards sustainability and environmentally responsible operations were acknowledged at several industry forums. We also bagged many prestigious awards like International Safety Award from British Safety Council for the fifth time in a row for both our Jajpur and Hisar units. Responsible Business Award under the category Sustainability Performance from the World Federation of CSR Professionals. Now, I would like to hand over to Anurag to discuss the operational and financial performance. Thank you. Thank you, Abhyuday. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome on the call. As highlighted by Abhyuday, we delivered strong volumes amidst the challenging global scenario. Let me discuss the detailed operational and financial performance during Q1 FY25. We delivered the highest ever sales volume of 578,143 metric tons in Q1, increased by 5% on YoY and 1% on QoQ basis. The standalone Q1 revenue increased by 1% on QoQ to INR 9,585 crore. Q1 EBITDA and PAT increased by around 20% on QoQ, to INR 1,004 crore and INR 578 crore respectively. On the subsidiaries front, our service center subsidiary, Jindal Stainless Steelway Limited, showed an improved performance on back of positive inventory valuations and increased sales to direct OEMs. Iberjindal also showed a better performance, improved performance, as their inventory levels have reduced, and we witnessed the price recovery in certain grade in their target markets. Overall, the total subsidiary EBITDA is INR 208 crores. To close, I reiterate that on demand outlook, we are confident that domestic stainless steel demand will continue to rise at a robust economic, with robust economic activities. With this, I would like to end my discussion and would request the moderator to open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions. The first one is essentially on your EBITDA pattern trajectory. So we have seen some nice bounce off after Q4. ... So just wanted to understand that, you know, the guidance that we had given for the full year of INR 545, between 18%-20%, that still remains intact, I suppose. And, what were the key ingredients of, you know, the improvement in EBITDA per ton? And also because you mentioned in your opening remarks that freight issues still very much persist, and, exports, we all saw that they were a tad lower. So just wanted to understand the key ingredients of this increase, and how do we see it going forward in the next couple of quarters? Well, Amit, definitely we are sticking to our guidance for the full year to achieve between INR 18,000-20,000 per ton. And, one of the reasons that, you know, there was some improvement in our margin is because we did see an uptick in nickel. So Q4, over the call, we showed and we discussed that however, consistent nine months, there was a fall and a sharp fall in December, but already in March, April, we saw nickel going up. So those are one of the factors that has led to an increase in EBITDA, plus again, focusing on high margin sectors, high margin grades, you know, so that we are able to extract more margin from our customers. And also again, export, we have only exported those grades where we are getting healthy margins. These are, I think, couple factors, if anything else, Mr. Khulbe would like to add. But these are the major two, three factors that have led to EBITDA increase for this quarter. Okay, great. That's very heartening to know. The second question I have is on the ramp up of Rathi. And, you know, what kind of EBITDA contribution was there in this quarter? And also, Rabirun, if you could highlight the ramp up progress. Rathi, we just started the operation, Amit, I think, so it's getting stabilized. I think, it's a bit early to share, because the current EBITDA is not really representative, but we stick to our guidance, what we have been saying about the Rathi's EBITDA per ton basis, that, eventually, I think INR 4,000-INR 7,000 what we should be targeting in this segment, per ton basis. Rabirun, it's, I would say it's early days, but we have been trying to work out the plan, how it should be moved forward. I think, so let's wait for some more, one more quarter for the Rabirun plan to be crystallized. But Rathi is ramping up in a smooth manner, and things are now looking quite positive from Rathi perspective also. Okay. So from the numbers, it looks like that, you know, the overseas subsidiary, the Spanish one, has done quite well in this quarter. Mm-hmm. Yes, because as I mentioned in my opening remarks, their inventories, old inventories have been exhausted, and some of the grade, they are showing, improvement in the rates, in some of the European markets. So hopefully now it should, we should see a more normalized level, next quarter onwards. So that gives us the confidence that export market is showing an uptick. Little bit is, of the Red Sea and our container costs and all these things are taken care of, then definitely we feel export volumes will pick up. So that is a very good, lens, to see that how European market is performing. Okay, great. Thanks a lot and all the best. Thank you, Amit. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Kirtan Mehta from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity and sort of congratulations for the good set of results. The first question was about the enabling provision that you've taken about INR 5,000 crore for raising the equity like instrument. So what is the intent there and when do we plan to execute? So, Kirtan, it's enabling resolution to prepare ourselves for the organic and inorganic growth opportunities, because as we mentioned, that domestic market is expected to expand, and with especially the new sector, anticipated to grow even more faster, and which will be driving the demand in stainless steel across. So, to meet those expanding market demand and uphold our market position and market share, we have planned strategically, we need to plan strategically for the future. So accordingly, we'll see more enabling resolution, I would say, at this stage. And, depending on how we move on the opportunities and on our demand side, and we'll accordingly... Because our, the focus are, for us, is that to maintain a very strong prudent balance sheet and financial ratio. Those are very important for us to maintain, which is the main reason for this resolution we have taken. We would utilize this opportunity either for sort of improving our balance sheet or if we spot any inorganic acquisition opportunity, which is basically in line with the business. Is that the right way to think of it? It will be a combination. There could be a combination, but it all depends on the market opportunity. Right now, it's only enabling resolution, as we mentioned. Sure. There is also a mention about basically sort of repeating the success of co-branding into some of the consumer-facing verticals. You have started with ornamental pipes. So how do we plan to broaden ourselves into this kind of expansion, and what are the areas that we are considering to expand? So we already, like we did with pipe and tube, and that has yielded very good results for us. Now we are looking at all kind of consumer-driven segments. So it could be from utensils to hollowware, to maybe, stainless steel bottles. You know, so this is, at the moment, we're exploring. There's a lot of interest coming from the market. ... and looking at the positive results of P&T, within, I would say next two quarters, we would be hopefully launching something in this domain. Would this be a competition to our consumer, or would it more basically sort of branding with them so? This is we become an enabler for our customer. We are not entering into our customer's shoes. We want to grow our customer, we want to support overall steel domestic downstream consumption to increase. So this is where we come, we co-brand with our customer, we help them market the product, we create a marketplace. So a lot of activities we did for P&T, same thing we will do for in other segments also. In fact, our customers get our support to market their products, and that's why even in P&T, in co-branding, like we have around 35 partners working with us on this co-branding initiative. They have also been consistently able to increase their volumes through this partnership, which we also want to extend that to new segments. Understood. One last question from my side. In terms of the import competition, you mentioned that we have vacated some of the spaces where we are seeing a sort of cheap competition from cheaper imports. So which are the segments? Are there any addition to the new segments where we are facing this competition? We are not exited, it is only we have reduced our quantities because we see enough growth in our other high-margin, high-paying segments, so that is why we are diverting our quantities to those sectors. So we are not exited, we are just limiting because imports are going to come. Are we facing this in more number of segments than earlier, or it segments remains more or less similar? Still in the similar segments. Still in the similar segments where they were, something was happening, it's still continuing in the similar segments. How do you think that the BIS certification norms that has been introduced could help? Are we seeing any signs of sort of some of the suppliers backing out? BIS is a very welcome step. It is only some challenges are there in the execution from the government side, which we are in constant dialogue and supporting them to improve that. If it becomes, if execution improves, then the effectiveness will clearly be visible. Yeah. Actually, the government, while their intention is good, they have already made it mandatory, but, they also have to make their systems, you know, to get it implemented. Yeah on the ground in the stronger way, which we are also helping the government, and we can see that they are working on. Yeah. It's a very welcome move from the industry perspective. Thank you. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks, thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Sir, first on JUSL, what was the volume throughput this quarter, and what should we be looking at for this fiscal, the throughput number? So, JUSL, let me just give you this quarter throughput number is the job work, because JUSL EBITDA comes from multiple things. So the job work itself was close to 500,000, 497,000, little less than 500,000. And, but they also have their other sales and other products, so which how the better combination comes up. Right. And sir, for the full year, how should we look at this number? Okay. So JUSL, there is a, because JUSL, based on the margin, there was a margin-based discount which was there, so which has accrued to now, JSL. So therefore... And there is also an INR 15 crore, in this quarter, there is an exception item of INR 15 crore in this quarter in JUSL. So that is, one is that it's the current quarter is not, actually a fully normalized number. Second, because, the JUSL does not have much of the requirement, cash requirement at this stage, because their loans and, servicing is not much, and it's long-term loans, with not much repayment. And, there was a quantity-based discount, slab, in the contract, so which has triggered, which has made the upstreaming of the cash more efficiently also. Right. Sir, my question was more pertaining to the volumes, throughput for the full year that we can look at, given there's a lot of spare capacity sitting on the asset. So, how are we looking to ramp this, ramp up this number of 0.5 million tons? No, so JUSL, right now is complete. There's no external work which is there, because earlier it keep coming in the pocket, but right now we are not running any external job work, frankly. Means, sometime it come, sometime it doesn't come, but at least immediately we don't see, anything. It's largely a JSL, tooling. Sure. And sir, just switching to JUSL, we see the cash balance declining on a sequential basis. How should we comprehend this? So JUSL has also given, if you see it on a net debt basis, JUSL has given certain ICDs to JSL, because if you see that net debt has increased at both JSL, JUSL level. So the best way to look at it, are look at the combined net debt level, which we give the guidance on the combined level only. Sure. Another question, specifically on Chromeni. Were there any losses booked during the quarter, and how should we look at the ramp-up of this asset, for the full year? ... Hello. Let me, I think it was some smaller, very small part of interest and deficient, but let me just give you the number, but not a significant number in this quarter. That's it. Right. How should we look at the ramp-up of the assets, sir? So it was around 34. Sorry, I got the number. That it was around INR 34 crore of the losses which were booked in this quarter in Chromeni. Interest and depreciation, basically, that's that part. We are hopeful, Ritesh, that by Q3 this year sometime, we should start the operations. Okay, that's helpful. And so just last question on downstream assets. You indicated that the ramp-up of Rathi has been; you're happy with that. Sir, how are we looking at RUBL? Because in our prior calls, we have indicated that we are putting it on a back burner, and given we ventured into Chromeni. So if one had to look at all the three buckets together, Chromeni, RUBL and Rathi, how are you looking at it on allocating time, management, bandwidth, and ramp-up? So obviously, see, Chromeni being a wider tender steel, which is obviously our mainstay, focus and priority, I would say, would go to Chromeni, and secondly, Rathi, because Rathi being a new entry into long product for us, that focus is also there. And also, the way management will be split is, Jajpur team will take care more of Chromeni plant, and Hisar team will take care more of, Rathi plant. So that is the way we have planned, and, there is no... I mean, I think these assets are not taking away so much management bandwidth as of now. It's in the mainstream of our business, and also there is an interdependency. So I think it's part of the same entire manufacturing ecosystem. So it will all this will be looked at more at a, so we'll be monitoring, as we were monitoring earlier, and JSL, JSHL was there. Simply the Chromeni is also now part of one management team, which will be looking at this. Sure. And sir, I'll just squeeze in one question, two questions. Sir, what is the status on JCL? And we were looking to monetize Indonesia downstream assets. If you could please provide an update on both. Thank you so much. So JCL, see, the one part of the transaction is completed, which is 4 point. But the balance at stake, we are expecting to be completed by, as per our guidance, of by September. So what we mentioned, 4.87% has also already been completed, that transaction. And I think hopefully we should be by Sep-- So we take the guidance of September. By September, October, we are on track. There were certain process-related clearances which were required because, from the regulators in terms of RBI and all these, because some shareholder were overseas shareholder, which are in the process. I think by September, October, we should be able to finish this transaction. Okay, in terms of your second question was on the Indonesia asset sale. Now, Indonesia asset sale, I think it's on track, and, right now, so we are working, the liquidation process is on. We are working on two parts. One is that we are selling. Right now, we have got a buyer who is actually buying the entire plant and machinery. And then, so once we are in the process of selling that plant and machinery, that process has already started. Dismantling of the machineries and everything has been started. The second part was then after this is completed, then we'll look for the land monetization. Sure, that is helpful. I joined exactly. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. Two quick questions. In this quarter, we have done 5% volume growth, and because of the export- Ashish, your voice is echoing, not clear much. Hello, is it better now? Yes. Yeah, a little better. Okay. So, I was just asking that, now, in this quarter, we have delivered 5% YY volume growth. Obviously, domestic operation were up 14%, but because of export, it was down. So, we have earlier guided for 20% volume growth. So do we still stick to that guidance? And if yes, where we are seeing that growth coming in for the next three quarters? That's my first question. Absolutely. Absolutely, we are sticking to that guidance, Ashish, and it's in our same, you know, we see because of this positive budget also in terms of infrastructure outlay, railway again, is a big mainstay for us, so the coaches have all increased, production, and they want to, create more railway infrastructure. So railway, definitely we see as a big way. Other infrastructure sectors also. This quarter, our P&T sector did not, grow as fast as we expect. But again, you know, Q2 is always a better sector, time for P&T segment also. So most of our sectors, we feel that, they're going to grow quite well. And you know what also happens is, during election time, some, ministries slow down their, offtake and everything, which we saw in this quarter. That was another reason why that jump didn't come. Mm-hmm. And in H2, we expect exports to also pick up. We are working on 2, 3 models and policies that will further make exports more profitable for us. Okay. So we are confident about 20% volume growth? We are quite confident. Okay. Demand has likely proven even in earlier years, volume and demand are quite confident position. Okay, sure. The second thing is, obviously, when we are confident on volume growth, I hope this is not on the cost of lower margin. And, is it possible? ... from 18 to 20. Yeah. So in fact, my second question was that only. Are we seeing any green shoots to see that we can have upper end of the EBITDA per ton guidance? That would depend more on export. I think just to, it's a little wait and watch to see- Mm-hmm. -if our export volume again picks up to around 15%-16%- Mm-hmm. on total volume, then maybe we can give a higher guidance. Okay. So, no, because these two questions are interrelated. So first you are saying 20% volume growth is possible only if exports pick up, and if exports pick up, we can have upper end of the guidance. No, I never said that. Okay. I said that, that will further help us picking up volume. Mm-hmm. But like we have proven even in earlier years, with export duty, with COVID time and everything- Mm-hmm. that domestic, there is enough scope for us to push our volume in domestic market also. It's only with export our guidance can improve. Okay. So you're saying with export, our EBITDA per ton guidance can improve, but in terms of volumes, we are... even if exports are not improving, we are confident? Yeah. Ashish, let me put it in this context. Yeah. Like, if you see the guidance, therefore, there is a range of guidance, 18,000-20,000. Mm-hmm. I think just one quarter has passed, and this guidance we gave was just a quarter back. I think we are expecting that we will be able to meet our target of 20% for what Abhyuday mentioned, the 20% volume growth and the 18,000-20,000 EBITDA per ton guidance. Because then if you see, this quarter we have done the highest ever sales volume. Mm-hmm. We are saying this based on the certain track what we are seeing on the uptake. Okay. Obviously, means, third forward quarter, we are expecting export market also to be picked up and everything. But those things are all expectations. Obviously, we can't commit on- Yeah, yeah. on those numbers right now. Agree. And, thirdly, in terms of, is there any net debt to EBITDA guidance that, you know, we will not cross that because, you know, as per our numbers or current expansion plans are concerned, maybe we can be debt-free company by FY 2023. But when we are evaluating- As, as we have always committed, maintaining our financial ratios has always been a clear focus of the organization for the last, I would say 7-8 years now. You know, so that is, that is still we would stick to that guidance and not definitely let our ratios go off track. If you can recall, the net debt to EBITDA is below one, which we are guiding? No, so if you see, Ashish, in our guidance and CapEx and capital allocation policy, which is there in our presentation also in the public domain, we have said that we will not cross 1.5 debt to EBITDA. Mm-hmm. That's our stated capital allocation policy, because we said that it's a combination of dividend, growth and the new opportunities which we keep targeting. That's how we will be doing these capital allocation in these three ways to improve, enhance the entire stakeholders' value. Mm-hmm. Now, that guidance is 1.5, and our rating agencies and rating agencies also have been updated towards that. Mm-hmm. But, as Abhyuday mentioned, the focus right now we are actually below one, and we would like to always... Our desire to remain in that range actually, we are not actually going to a guidance. But if you ask me the guidance number- Understood. that's the guidance. Yeah, understood. And then lastly, what is FY 25 CapEx guidance and how much we have done in quarter 1? Okay. So CapEx guidance, if you recall, last call, we said that, the FY 25 CapEx was to be around INR 5,200 crore. Yeah. There's one development subsequent to that. If you recall that time, the balance 46% stake of Indian partners were not crystallized. Mm-hmm. Which we have bought it later at 2- Cromini. Of Chromeni, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Which we bought it at INR 278 crore. Mm-hmm. So with this now, the CapEx for the full year is expected will be now INR 5,500 crore. And for the same, within the same CapEx, we said that the debt could increase to INR 5,200 crore-INR 5,300 crore for this meeting this. Now, the number has increased by INR 300 crore, CapEx number has increased by INR 300 crore. Mm-hmm. So we are saying the debt could go up to INR 5,500 crore, net debt I'm talking about, for this financial year end. Yeah. And then Q1 FY25, how much we have done? Q1 FY25 already has increased to almost because most of the CapEx are done. I think the Q1 is INR 4,900, yeah? 4,900? I'm talking about CapEx, sir. CapEx out of this INR 5,500 crore, which we are guiding for FY 2025. Oh, CapEx. Yeah, not debt, not debt. I'm seeing the- Yeah, yeah. CapEx number. No, no, CapEx. So, CapEx, total CapEx outflow for this quarter was INR 2,200 crore. Okay. Close to INR 2,200 crore. Good. Good. And this includes obviously Chromeni purchase of INR 1,600 crore, which we have done. Yeah, INR 1,600 crore plus of Chromeni also, which has already gone out. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and One on the touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, sir. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, bookkeeping, what was the mix for the volumes for this quarter for 200, 300, and 400 Series? What was the mix of export or domestic? Yeah. No, no, 200, 300, 400 series. So, Anupam, I read in the order of 200, 300, 400 Series. So it was 36%, 46%, and 19%. Okay. That's fine. The second question was on RKEF. So what are the status now? Are you sticking to that second quarter commissioning and what sort of ramp up should we be looking at for RAE? Yes, Anupam, this is what we had stated previously, and we are, we are sure that this Q2, this should happen. I will, me and, our CEO will be making a trip soon also, and I'll share some pictures with our, with our larger stakeholders. Sure. So any sort of volume we should build in for the second half of this year end? I think that initially it will be a ramp up. I would say, what we have been saying overall at a group level, that let's stick to those guidance because, we'll be just starting and there will be obviously a ramp-up phase to that. I think our guidance right now, what we have said includes all these sort of, plus and minuses from all the new acquisitions, what we have said. Right. Okay. And just one last question: so FY 25, you have said 20% growth, which will take you to over 2.5 million, million units, million tons. So based on the 3 million ton capacity plus Chromeni, which has come in, what sort of volumes should one look at for FY 26, possibly? I'm not saying for a guidance, but possibly, what can, volumes you can potentially do from this capacity? Hello. So FY 26 volume guidance, I would say, right now we have, we are stick to only a current year guidance, Anupam. So I think... But as you say, obviously, growth will definitely come, but just we have until maybe Q3 to give some better guidance. So let the Chromeni start and all the things, that will help us to build the better. But I think, right now, as, let's wait for some time to get the Q3, sorry, FY 2026 guidance. So just one follow-up there. So let's say of the 3 million tons, one should look at, utilization at best between 85%-90%. That is the best case, or it can be different than that, in terms of your capacity, not the market demand. So our sales volume, if you say sales volume in terms of the capacity, yes, means we'll be with our 20% volume guidance. You can say that we'll be reaching to a capacity as compared to production. But obviously we keep doing the mix of the slabs and production also. So I think the way to best look at it are the sales volume. Okay. Understand. Fine. That's all for my side. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. A quick couple of questions. One is, can you help with JCL EBITDA for last fiscal and year-end net debt number? Okay. Let me look JCL, Well, then, should I bounce off another question? I think Aditya can answer it probably. JCL EBITDA for the year? You mean to say the last quarter, quarter one, right? Sir, FY 24 and Q1, FY 25, if you can give both numbers would be useful. FY 2024 JCL EBITDA was total EBITDA INR 173 crores, but Q1 EBITDA was just INR 2 crores, because coke is right now into the losses. Okay. And the net debt number? The net debt number of JCL is, I think, I think we'll share the net debt number. I think it will be somewhere around INR 375-INR 400 here, but we'll have to check that because it's an associate company, so it doesn't get clubbed into the JSL number. Sure. So my second question, can you highlight the debt maturity profile and the average cost of debt? And do we have any plans, scope of, the average cost reducing going forward? So, Ritesh, if you see, what we keep doing is that our average maturity of the debt is right now close to 4.4 years plus, almost 4.5-5 years. And what we keep doing is that whenever the near-term maturity loan, we keep refinancing with the newer loan. So it improves, helps us give us the headroom and improves the balance sheet with the average tenure. And, typically, the currently the mostly loans we are borrowing it in the domestic market, because, obviously with the SOFR increasing and the forward rates, combination, the domestic loans. So I, I give you the perspective, the 7.65 is the right now SBI MCLR, and we are, borrowing the new debt more, more or less close to that. So we are borrowing at a very finer rate for the long-term debt. On the working capital side, we have been doing a combination of treasury operation because we actually borrow and then we do back-to-back credit on the working capital to our vendors and the customers, which helps us to earn some spread. So with that, we have actually reduced the working capital borrowing cost to less than 4%. That's useful. My third question was: Do we have any tax offsets, one, on Chromeni, second on Rathi, and third is RUBL? Are we looking at any benefits, in this fiscal, next fiscal, on the back of same? You mean to tax shelter? Yes. So I would presume there could be deferred tax asset sitting over there, so it gives us some tax shelter or some savings. So, see, Ritesh, there are obviously, we are, right now, because see, when you acquire a company, there are obviously unabsorbed acquisition and the losses, sitting in these companies. But right now we are evaluating with our consultant how much is the best we can actually utilize. So I think give us some time because, because actually we are just telling, so these assets were acquired under the resolution route, and they are- ... It all depends on their old litigations, how they have actually settled in the past or and the books, they, how they have been maintaining. So we are just trying to work it out, that there are obviously certain tax shelters, but I think it's. Give me some time before I give the firm number, because we are still in discussion with our consultants that how best we can actually utilize those things. Sure, uh- JCL, you talked about the number, so I have the number down. JCL has a long-term debt of around INR 320 crore and a working capital debt of INR 91 crore, so around INR 411 crore debt. That's useful. And last question is for Abhyuday. So we have put out an ESOP program for the management. I just wanted to understand what is the spread of management over here. The reason to ask this question is, we are moving at a pretty fast pace, so how, how sticky is the top management? How are you looking at the overall scenario, if one has to take a view on the company with the next 5, 10 year view? How, you ask, Ritesh, how sticky is the top management? Is that one of your queries or- So yes. So that is one. The related question would be, we understand that, the top management would have been granted ESOPs. I'm not sure whether it's top management or is it firm wide? Yeah. Top management, it's the general manager and above, which is close to, I think, top 150 people in the company. Okay. And, sir, how do you look at the look to scale up, look to grow at 20% plus, or say, over the next N number of years? Do you think management bandwidth could be a challenge, or are we equipped right now to handle that growth for next three years? We're already working on that. We're already, we already envisaged that, Ritesh, and we're already working on that, in a very, I would say, war footing now, you know, because we are growing very fast, you're rightly pointing out, and already working on that. But, you know, we, one very good thing is that Hisar plant being operated for 50 years, it has been churning a lot of asset leaders for quite some time now. So that gives us the comfort, that we can very quickly absorb people in Hisar and train them very fast to become stainless steel experts, which is what, if you see complete Jajpur plant, which is almost, 2.5 times the size of Hisar, has totally been, fed and developed by Hisar team. We're very confident of taking that same kind of process, and work has already begun on that, to ensure whatever new acquisition expansion comes, management bandwidth is taken care of. Sure. Sir, just last question. I think the intention is also to look into downstream assets, which is visible through Chromeni, Rathi, and RUBS. What is it different that we are doing in the marketplace to ensure these incremental volumes get absorbed in the right way? When I say the right way, the idea is to fetch the desired realizations and to sell the desired mix. Anything that you can highlight over here? So one thing naturally that is happening, that is always, you know, you see any economy doing better, GDP ratio going up, so stainless steel consumption moves in line with that. And that is what we have seen consecutively for many years now. So apart from us, our activity that we're doing to educate the market, create more awareness, work on substituting, working on, let's say, convincing the customer already that this is a sustainable material, no maintenance is required. So like, you know already the kind of inroads we have made in railway coaches, wagons, and now railway infrastructure also. So similar kind of activities are going to happen in other industries, other segments. Branding is another area we have done phenomenally well in our PNT sector. So similar, on similar lines in other consumer-driven products, we're going to be initiating a co-branding scheme. You know, secondly then, which is pending, that government is doing on infrastructure, on railways, on defense, that's a very welcome step. Stainless steel we see growing in all your new age industries, your LNG terminals, desalination plants, lift elevator, we've seen very good growth. White goods, again, shipping up very strongly. And another thing that we have started, Ritesh, which is actually a very interesting move, is getting more and more into channel financing and deep tier market research. So then to really further go down and extract better value from our customers. Sir, just can you provide some color on the distributor and the dealer network, how we are looking at this? It is already a mainstay for our organization. We have close to 14 warehouses. We're in fact setting up little larger scale warehouses to supply more just-in-time, half processing together, to only increase our supply chain effectiveness. So our dealer network is pan-India. It is covered pan-India. Sure. This is quite useful. Thank you so much. All the very best. Thank you. Thank you, Ritesh. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible? Yes. Hi, Rohan. Yeah. Hi. So, my question was more on a repetitive side. So just, you know, to understand from the 5% volume growth that we've done in Q1, and the drivers for the 20% that we are guiding this year. So, I know it's a repetitive question, but, you know, any broader color, directional color on that? Thank you. ... So same thing, all our sectors where we're operating from auto to railway to process industry, we see good growth coming. Plus that the push now the government is giving on renewable energy, desalination plants, nuclear power, a lot of energy going into nuclear power. So this, Bharat Small Reactor, again, will be a very welcome move. So I think with government capital expenditure increasing, is only going to support our industry, enough room for us to grow in every segment that we are already at. And like I mentioned, if little bit of the Red Sea issue gets sorted out, then we can even push higher volumes in the export market. So this, we see will take care of this 20% volume growth. Got it. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Singh from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. I just wanted to understand, we used to speak about national stainless steel policy. Any further information on the same? If that proposal has moved anywhere? So, if you would have asked me this, maybe one hour later, I could have answered, because after this, I have my meeting with Steel Minister, basically to discuss on national stainless steel policy. It was taken very positively. I think now the whole, I would say the ministry front is recognizing that stainless steel has its own place in the metal market. It needs its own positioning, and the policy will go in a long way to support it. So, completely from everyone in the ministry, we who we're working with, we're getting very good support, and we hope within next, maybe next year, this should be announced. Understood, sir. Since my second question regarding the co-branding exercise, which we are talking about, just wanted to understand the scope of the volume or the margin improvement in here, because you said that most of these people are already our customers. So on which segment it helps us most in the further volume growth or the margin, or if you could give us some more insight into it? It is both. It is both, you know, because now I don't want to open up too much here on our on the salient features of this policy that we launched, but it's a mix of both. We've seen that in pipe and tube. Maybe offline, I can ask the team to share some data, but it's only because we've seen both a margin and a volume benefit in P&T, which is why we want to extend it to other sectors also. Good. In fact, it's a very win-win kind of a, kind of a scheme, because our customers, when they do co-branding and use our brand, along with their brand, they are also able to fetch more value from the market. The downstream or the end customer gets that confidence that is genuine stainless steel, what he is consuming. Yeah. So that is one of the biggest, I would say, enablers for this. Understood, sir. Just this one clarification. I heard that you said about ICD given by JUSL to JSL. So what was the quantum of the same? I missed on that. Because it was INR 240 crore. Okay. Okay, and just- The net debt number, when we explore, it offsets that. So just to make clear on the, because that will have no relevance on the, because net debt number which you give at a JSL so JUSL combined. So- Understood, sir. Just one last question on the, this, debt, trajectory as well as the enabling resolution. Two parts here. Have we already paid the entire older nickel iron project money as of now, and the money outflow for the 1 million ton plant has already started? And secondly, are we expecting any cash flow mismanagement so that we have to take this enabling resolution despite giving a debt increment guidance to INR 5,500 crore? So, because as I, we mentioned that it's only enabling resolution to, because the market, domestic market is growing, and see, the cash outflow has happened already as we said, because this that's the reason this quarter the debt has also increased, considerably. But, overall, it's, we are maintaining our guidances, and we'll see that it's, how the opportunity unfolds for us, and it's more enabling business, I would say, at this stage. Understood, sir. That's all from my side. If I have any further question, I'll come back on the team. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Chaudhari from Prabhudas Lilladher Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah, good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to know the volume contribution, volume break up, which we have, you guys have told 200, 300, 400. We were focused on 400 over the last 3, 4 years, and the contribution was increasing from 18 odd% to almost touching 25%. But over the last few quarters, it is coming off. Any particular reason for this? I think, let me, because see, we directionally, we always say that's our thing, but obviously- If you see volume-wise percent, I mean, because our volume has also grown, so 400 Series has also taken up. And like I was mentioning, with railway, auto again picking up, and we see the Q2 being a good season with Diwali and everything coming in also, we expect some 400 CD sales to increase. So it's, as, Vaikunth just to add to that, with it's because of our agile product mix, our focus is obviously that what that item, but that doesn't mean that we will compromise on our margin, and if we are getting a better margin shares from some other series. So it should not be looked at in that perspective. Right. So- A lot of development is happening on 400 Series. Basically, that's what I would like to say. Okay. So and one more question, in one of the answers you told us that in one Q, the key reason for uptick in margin was basically a jump in nickel prices post Russian ban and everything. But now, if you look at the prices, they have collapsed a lot. They have gone down below $16,000 per ton. So, how should we look at it, actually? So let me just say, I think we have not said that the jump is not to completely relate like that. What we said the last quarter in the Q4, actually, because of consistent fall in nickel for nine months and because of the sharper fall in the December, November, December time, there was a bit of... Suddenly we have to take a because the demand also pauses, the inventory valuation also comes into the picture. But still, despite that, it was consistently falling nine months. It could have only impact in the, probably the third month, to us. What we are saying is that, so we have actually made a more neutralized model, where we actually do more, try to minimize these type of commodity fluctuations from our from our P&L. But obviously, it's a consistent also. You have seen in the past, like, whenever the, if it's a 1-month fall and again it's coming back, we are still remain more consistent because, 40 to 30 to, 35 to 45 days is required to pass on that, that impact to the customer. So it's a more a pass-through model in a large manner. But the, having said that, obviously, if there is a consistent upfall, obviously you will get a certain in base inventory, which you maintain between raw material, WIP and FG. Obviously, those will get impacted. So it, we are, what we are saying is that the last quarter four was actually, because of, largely because of that fall. Now, it's coming back to a normalized, but obviously with 1 month, we are not saying it will get moved like this. If you ask me, if you tell me that nine months consistently, it will again fall, yes, we could get impacted. I'm not denying that. But we don't feel. Generally, nickel market does not work like that, and there is generally recovery seen, and already some in some pockets, some miners are announcing... Anyway, so basically we don't, we don't feel that, you know, short-term volatility- Yeah. Yeah, just in short-term volatility, it should improve. So the last one, two question, we were focusing on newer markets, export markets, and plus, I'm reading a few articles that you are targeting Japan also. So anything on that? So see, that's like I said, because with our freight rate increasing and, the Europe and U.S. market had not recovered as fast, so we wanted to tap newer markets, increase our share, which is why actually Japan is one, it's our first breakthrough. So it's a very big thing for the, for our country also, if I can say, for the organization also, because there is not too much cross-sale into Japan. So it is more a prestigious thing, and, since it's our first entry, we expect now a little more positive response from our customers in Japan. And other than Japan, we're targeting South Korea, we're targeting Middle East, we're targeting South America. So, yeah. Okay, thanks a lot, sir. Best of luck. Thanks. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikas Singh, the host of the call. Hi. On behalf of PhillipCapital, I would like to thank JSL management for giving us the opportunity to host them. I would hand over the call to JSL management for any closing comments. Thank you, Vikas, and let me thank everyone for attending this call. The addition of cold roll capacity to our product basket through Chromeni acquisition, combined with progressive government initiatives in the area of standardization and our planned co-branding scheme in consumer sensitive segments, open an array of possibilities for us. I hope that we have been able to answer all your queries in a satisfactory manner. Should you need any further clarification or if you would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our investor relations team, and a lot of information is also available on our website. Thank you. On behalf of PhillipCapital (India) Private Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.