Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Jupiter Wagons Limited Q1 FY25 conference call hosted by Systematix Institutional Equities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing * then 0 on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudeep Anand from Systematix Institutional Equities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us today for the Q1 FY25 earnings call of Jupiter Wagons. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us Mr. Vivek Lohia, Managing Director, and Mr. Puneet Saboo, Vice President, Finance. Now, I would like to hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks, and then we can open for the Q&A. Thanks, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Sudeep, and welcome to all our investors and analysts joining us for the Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. I'm thrilled to share the progress and achievement of Jupiter Wagons Limited and our subsidiaries over the past quarter. Our unwavering dedication to revolutionizing mobility solutions has driven us to new heights, and I'm excited to present our key milestones and strong financial performance in Q1 FY25. In Q1 FY25, the company reported a total income of INR 902.19 crore, marking a 19% year-over-year increase. EBITDA surged to ₹12,886, a 32% rise, with EBITDA margins improving to 14.4%, up from 12.9% in Q1 FY24. PAT reached INR 89.23 crore, a 40% increase, and PAT margin grew to 9.9%. Despite challenges from the general election and peak summer impact of our multi-location plant, we achieved a robust consolidated EBITDA margin of 15.5%. Our order book stood at INR 7,283 crore as of June 30, 2024. Jupiter is at the forefront of mobility revolution, offering comprehensive solutions across rail, road, and marine transportation. Our focus on sustainability, efficiency, and innovation positions us as a key player in reshaping product mobility. We integrate various transportation modes to ensure smooth, efficient, and eco-friendly journeys. During the quarter, we advanced into energy-efficient battery solutions for rail coaches through a collaboration with Log9 Materials. Our commitment to energy-efficient logistics is evident in our role in developing critical infrastructure at every stage. Jupiter Electric Mobility, our esteemed subsidiary, has achieved a major milestone by completing a six-month trial of our 11.2 kW Lithium-Ion LFP Battery Pack for rail coaches. We are the first to receive certification from RDSO. Additionally, we secured a purchase order for LFP auxiliary batteries for Vande Bharat Train Sets from Siemens, and have technically qualified for rail tenders. Further, the company is in the process of developing the next-generation battery packs for Indian Railways. This accomplishment underscores our leadership in advancing battery technology for Indian Railways. Jupiter Electric Mobility has received approvals from the Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI) for commercial production of our one-ton four-wheel electric light commercial vehicle, JEM TEZ. This vehicle features advanced fast-charging technology, enabling full charge in approximately 20 minutes and offering a certified range of 127 km. Production is set to begin in October Q3 FY25, with an initial plan to manufacture 500 vehicles in our inaugural year. In March 2024, we acquired a majority stake in Bonatrans India Private Limited to enhance backward integration and create operational synergies. For fiscal year 2024, Bonatrans reported a five-fold increase in revenues to ₹7,436 lakhs. EBITDA rose to ₹930 lakhs with a 12.5% margin, and PAT reached ₹702 lakhs. We aim for a turnover of approximately INR 400 crores from BIPL for FY2024-25. In the short-medium term, we plan to expand BIPL's capacity to machine 28,000 wheelsets in FY2025 and up to 40,000 to 50,000 wheelsets by FY2026. These wheelsets will support JWL's freight car orders and be used to export to Tatravagonka and other international players. Further, we are also selling wheelsets to Indian Railways for the LHB and Vande Bharat applications and to the various leading metro players in India, such as Siemens, Alstom, and BEML. We are also in advanced discussions to establish a fully integrated forging line for wheel axles in India, with a target to manufacture around 100,000 wheelsets annually and expect it to be commissioned and completed by 2027. This facility will not only cater to the demand of the growing Indian demand for wheelsets, but also this will be a significant exporter of wheelsets to the European Union and all other major freight and rail manufacturers in the world. We are pleased to announce the successful completion of our qualified institutional placement, raising INR 800 crore. The QIP received an overwhelming response, with total demand reaching approximately INR 2,800 crore, reflecting strong institutional confidence. The raised capital will be primarily used to establish a four-wheel and axle manufacturing plant, enhancing our backward integration and supporting long-term growth. This initiative will create opportunities to expand into the export market, further strengthening our growth and market presence. With that, I conclude my remarks, and we can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the Q&A session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press * and 1 on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press * and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? Yes, ma'am. Yes. Thank you so much for taking my question. So firstly, with the budget announcement and the prior budget also, that the locomotives, the production for this year of locomotives and wagons has increased for this year and next year. So what do you think is your order pipeline looking like for this year? As already mentioned in the opening remarks, today our order book is very strong. It stands close to INR 7,000 crores. As in the budget announcement itself, IR is in the process of undertaking a major expansion of its track network. As you have seen, over the last year, the railway freight traffic has grown over 5%, and now it is close to 1,600 million tons. By 2040, they want to take it to 500 million tons. Again, we expect a very, very strong wagon demand from IR. The expectation is anything above 30,000 wagons is what we are expecting. Further, the private sector demand continues to be very robust. Again, every month, we continue to add significant order books. From this month, we have also started our supplies for the new wagons, such as the fly ash wagon as well as the auto rake. So, I think, and we are in the process of developing further new designs. So, I think with the addition of these specialized wagons, we expect the demand flow to be very strong and our margins to improve further. All right. And you mentioned about the specialized wagons and, in general, the order pipeline looking good. So what do you think about the competitive intensity in this market? So obviously, there is competition, but we believe we have a significant edge because of our forward integration in terms of the design capabilities which we have and the kind of partnerships we have with people like GATX and the design feedback which we get from Tatravagonka, them being a significant partner. The kind of backward integration which we have undertaken. We will continue to have the edge when it comes to these new designs, and we are significantly ahead of competition in terms of the design capabilities and the new designs which we have already introduced in the market. All right. All right. And right. And my last question would be is that EBITDA margin this time is nearly 2% higher than what it was for full year last year. So could you give some color on that? And are these margins sustainable, and what would the full year margins look like? So definitely, these margins are sustainable. And as such, also I had mentioned in my previous calls also, this year, you will see the wheel business contributing significantly as well as the braking business. So as contributions from these businesses go up, definitely, they will have an impact on the margins. Plus, on the wagon side also, as I mentioned, that now we have started deliveries of specialized wagons. So there also, we expect better margins going forward. So yeah, so overall, I think we are very confident that our margins are going to be sustainable, and we are increasing our wheel capacities also significantly in Bonatrans. So quarter-on-quarter, you will see the revenue numbers going up. And further, we are doing a substantial backward integration. I think in a year or two, the impact of that also will be significant. All right. Thank you so much for taking my question. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your question to two per participant. Should I have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. Our next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead, sir. Hello. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Good morning, sir, and congrats for a good set of numbers. My first question is, it seems order inflows got hampered in this quarter due to political events that you mentioned in your speech also. For the upcoming nine months, what factors give you confidence that the order book will be executed and expanded as anticipated at the beginning of the year? Are there any slowdowns or delays being faced in your order book execution? And additionally, how do you foresee the order inflow for this quarter, sir? So in terms of execution, we are very, very confident. Already, I think post-election, our execution numbers have gone up. And as we had guided that this year, we are targeting to achieve a sale of 10,000 wagons plus, and we are completely on track, and we are very, very confident to achieve those numbers. As I have told you, again, from the private sector, we are continuously adding incremental order books, and we expect Indian Railways also to come out with significant tenders in the coming months. So order inflow also, I think, will continue to remain strong. We are more focused on definitely increasing our capacity, especially our foundry capacity. And on the backward integration side, in terms of the braking business as well as the wheelset business, I think going forward, they will play a very critical role. Sir, when you mentioned we are increasing foundry capacity, so what is our existing capacity? We were targeting 1,000 wagons per month, right? What is our new target? Are we looking to further expand it, or how is it going to be? As I mentioned, by the beginning of Q4, we will be adding another 1,000 tons of foundry capacity, and we are on track towards that. I think that will help us definitely. Once we add that capacity, we will be able to achieve our target of 1,000 wagons. By when? Q4 as of 2025, which is? Before end of Q3, before end of Q3, as I had mentioned. Why is it getting delayed? Like earlier, we were looking at by the end of 2024 only, and now three quarters delay is there. No, no, no. So it's end of, I said Q3. So it is before the orders, it was in 2024 only, and it will be completed in 2024. We are not going to go to 2025. There's no delays. Whatever guidance which I have given, we stand by it. So we are at earlier, as mentioned by October, we will be completing our expansion, and we are on track for that. Thank you, sir. So secondly, could you also elaborate on the company's plans regarding lithium-ion batteries? Are there any significant CapEx plans in place to support this initiative? And what is the expected timeline for the implementation? Additionally, does the company have any plans to set up a dedicated plan for it, or how is it going to be, sir? Dedicated plan for what? I could not follow you. Lithium-ion battery technology that we are talking about in the PPT. Okay. Yes, definitely, we have a plan to backward integrate, and we are in the process of finalizing the same. So right now, we are focusing on developing the right technology and getting ourselves certified. So as and when we come up with those plans, we will let you know. Understood, sir. And sir, one last question on your brief segment. Sorry to interrupt, sir. Please rejoin the queue. Okay, okay. I will wait for the time. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on the executive members. I just want to get more colors on your incremental investment that are going into the wheelset business. So can you give us a broad landscape? How much is the Indian market demand for the wheelset? How is it split between cast and forged wheel, and where does this Bonatrans come into picture, whether it's the cast or the forged wheel? And how much likely to be incremental demand that you see in the domestic market itself? So some color on this whole opportunity that you have on the wheelset side. Yeah. Thank you. So as you're aware, that today, already, if you look at the entire rolling stock population in the country, it is close to 500,000. And we expect by 2030, that entire rolling stock population will be close to about 800,000. And the wheelsets have to be replaced in approximately around seven years. So every year, you're looking at a replacement demand of at least 5 lakh wheelsets, plus the OEM demand which is there. So we expect the annual demand to be nothing less than about 6 lakh wheelsets. And today, if you look at the manufacturing capacity in the country, it is close to about 1, 1.5 wheelsets in the maximum. And wheel factory is the major manufacturer, and they produce, I think, close to about 1 lakh wheelsets. So there's a significant gap, and India is a major importer of wheel sets. And if you look at our own wagon capacity, we are looking to produce at least anything between 12,000-15,000 wagons annually. So our internal demand is itself close to about 60,000 wheel sets. And plus for us, Europe is a big opportunity. Our partners, Tatravagonka, they themselves require about close to 50,000 wheel sets annually. And plus we are already in discussions with other European players who themselves are looking at alternative sources for wheel set procurement. We are setting up facilities initially to produce about close to 100,000 wheel sets, but we are very confident that given the kind of demand which is there, we will have to further enhance the capacities in the future. Great. You said this wheel both cast and forged wheel that Bonatrans can do, or it's only the forged wheel? So we can assemble and machine both cast and forged wheel. But the backward integration which we are doing, we are focusing on forged wheel because that is the future technology. And all high-speed applications will require forged wheel only. So cast wheels cannot be used for any high-speed application. And if you look at Europe, it is all forged wheel only. Thanks. And so currently, Bonatrans has the foundry itself, or it's more machining at this moment? Right now, we don't have any foundry facilities. We are doing the machining and assembly of wheelsets. Thank you. So last one, if I may. So currently, what Jupiter Wagon produces for the Indian Railways and the private customer on the wagon side, where do you guys procure wheels for that? Is it railway factory, and can that be backward integrated and sourced from Bonatrans? Right now, we are sourcing mainly from Bonatrans and other suppliers. But the idea is that over the next 2 years, we are setting up our own wheelsets. We are doing our complete backward integration. Yes. Thank you for answering my questions, and I'll be over there. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Devesh from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead, sir. Good afternoon, sir. Just if I might have missed, I just wanted to know what is the average selling price for wheel sets currently for Vande Bharat and for freight? Freight is roughly around anything between INR 2.7-3 lakhs. It depends on the raw material prices. For Vande Bharat, I think is approximately I don't know, again, the exact numbers, but I would assume that it is anything between INR 6-8 lakhs. But again, I'm not it's somewhere in that ballpark. Margins are the same for both of them? Yeah, margins are, as you go into more high-speed applications, definitely, because the intricacies and machining and everything and the demands are much higher. So definitely, in high-speed applications, the margins are more than freight. Okay. Another update I wanted on the commercial vehicle volumes. If you see the volume numbers of YOY, they're stable, but then QOQ, they've fallen down. So are we expecting some slowdown on that side, or are we not focused on that business yet? Because there was one time when you had mentioned that you'll more be focused on containers. So, I think there is no significant, as you're aware, this was a legacy business for us, and the idea is to—again, it's not that we are not focused, and we want to continuously grow this business. But if you see, there is no significant drop in numbers. The numbers are very, very similar, and we expect before end of this compared to last year, we expect the numbers to go up only by end of this year. Again, you have to understand that being an election year, election quarter, even in the commercial vehicle segment also, there was an impact because of that. And I think post the monsoon season, you will see definitely an increase in terms of demand. Thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Hi, good afternoon, sir, and thanks for taking my question. So a couple of questions from my side. First, would be great to get an update about the EV business and also the brake business regarding Stone India. What are the developments, let's say, which have happened over the last, you could say, couple of months in terms of future tenders and scaling up our product portfolio there? Thank you. So on the EV business, as I mentioned, that we have already got approvals from ARAI. We are in the process of now starting our commercial production, and by end of October, we are confident that we will start rolling out our vehicles. We are, I think, on the last mile of that journey. Again, we are starting with more than 80% localization, and our vehicles will be eligible for FAME subsidy too. Further on Stone India, again, we expect railways to grant us licenses very shortly. We have already upgraded our infrastructure, and we expect commercial production to start in the next couple of months. Great. Actually, what's our net debt figure currently? I'll just hand over to Parvez. Our net debt will be around our gross debt is consolidated around INR 450, and the net debt will be around INR 300. Okay. Sure. Thanks. I'll come back into the queue for more questions. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Gagandeep from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead, sir. Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Yeah. Hello. Hello. Yeah, please go ahead. Yes, sir. So my question is on the brake segment side. The company has set a target of achieving INR 300-INR 400 crore in revenue for brake and disc segment in FY25. So however, if we look at the Kovis and DAKO-CZ order book numbers, that shows only INR 35 crore execution in this quarter, so with no incremental order book observed in this quarter. So are you in line with achieving the target for FY25, and why there are no incremental orders for this segment, sir? No, I think we are adding incremental for I think the DAKO-CZ business, already we have orders of close to INR 150 crore. Close to about INR 100 crore, and Indian Railways is now coming out with new tenders. So already they have come out with the tenders. They're going to award further orders, I think, in the next couple of months. And even on the Kovis business, we are adding incremental orders every month. So I don't know exactly from where you got the numbers. And when we talked about INR 200-250 crore, we also included Stone India. And as I've just mentioned, that in the next couple of months, we'll be starting our commercial production there. So we are definitely in line to achieving the numbers which we have disclosed. it will be INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore, or INR 200 crore, or INR 250 crore? No, no. I never mentioned 300. I mentioned INR 200 crore-INR 250 crore in FY 2024-25. Okay, sir. That's it from my side, sir. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Aakash from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. First of all, thanks for the opportunity, and congrats on the great set of numbers. Yeah. So my question was, first question is on Bonatrans. Very nice. I I wanted to understand whether all the wheelsets that we have produced in this quarter have been used for captive purpose, or how is it? Thank you, Aakash. No, it is not being used for captive or not all. Definitely, Bonatrans has supplied for captive, but we have supplied to Indian Railways for the LHB applications. We have supplied to the Metro players also, and we have supplied to other wagon manufacturers also. So it has been Bonatrans is supplying wheelsets across the various segments, and not only to Jupiter, but to all the major players. Okay. So this is, like you said, sir, our own wagon production, we are planning somewhere between 12-15K. So that works out around 50,000-60,000 wheelset requirements for our own purpose. So how do you plan to scale the wheelsets that are going to be produced at Bonatrans going further? How much will be used for captive? How much will be catering to other players? So as I mentioned, that by this year, we will be scaling the production to about 30,000 wheelsets, and by next year, we will be close to about 50,000 wheelsets. And then I think then onwards, with our complete integration happening, we will be close to about 100,000 wheelsets by 2027 end. So as we keep on scaling up, it will be basically the production will be used for our captive production as well as for supplies to others. So initially, I think for our captive production, Bonatrans will be supplying close to about 20%-25% of our demand. And as it keeps on scaling up, definitely, we will be using more of that capacity. But again, we are looking at the market opportunity in a big way, and to serve the requirements for LHB as well as the Metro and the Vande Bharat. It will be a mix of everything for us. Got it, sir. And we'd also like to understand how do you, I mean, foresee the margins going ahead. So we did a gross margin of around 25% and EBITDA of 15.5% at the consolidated level. So for this year, is it sustainable? Are those gross margins and even EBITDA margins of 15%+ sustainable? And how do you take it forward from here in the next one to two years? I think definitely we are confident that these margins are sustainable. It will be around the 15% kind of margins because, as I mentioned, that as the other businesses start contributing significantly, so they will start having a positive impact on the margins. And going forward, again, as we achieve better backward integration, as I've mentioned, that as the wheel business becomes bigger, as the braking business becomes bigger, they start contributing, we expect the margin profiles to improve. Got it, sir. One last question from my side. Sorry to interrupt, sir. Just one last question. Yeah. So thank you. So basically, last year in FY 2024 as a whole, the industry, I think the railway industry, including the private and the public Indian Railways demand, I think there was around 25,000 wagons. So if I'm not wrong, then how do you project this number going ahead, where it can reach in the next couple of years considering 2025, 2026, and 2027? I'm not sure about that number. I have to cross-check. As you're aware, the industry today has significant order books. In terms of the demand, I don't think we see that to be any kind of challenge. If you see the National Rail Plan from Indian Railways, in the next five years, they are looking to buy at least close to, I think, 400,000 rolling stock wagons. In terms of the wagon demand, it's close to 400,000, of which they have procured, I think, around 150,000. There is still a huge gap in terms of their projections, which they have done, and the procurement which they have done. We don't see a challenge in the kind of investments which is happening in the infrastructure, especially on the track infrastructure and the signaling, and in terms of the last mile connectivity, which is there. The government is very, very committed toward the infrastructure. As you have seen in this budget itself, the finance minister reiterated that the infrastructure spending is now above 3%, and they continue, and the government will continue in that path. I don't see any challenge in terms of the demand going forward. Got it, Parvez sir. Thanks, thanks. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Soman Kumar, an individual investor. Please go ahead, sir. Hi, sir. Thanks for being here and watching this work. Sir, while going through the presentation, what I figured out is the volume that we have been able to generate as far as railway wagons is concerned has dropped to a level of around 19.4 from 25-20 kind of from the last quarter. Given the kind of order size that we have, what would be the reason for this? As I mentioned very clearly, see, if you look at Q1 FY2024, there has been a significant jump. But yes, from the last quarter, there has been a drop. I've mentioned very clearly that this is because of the disturbances because of the elections. As you're aware, that the elections are over seven phases, and we are not only in one location. Our plants are in various locations. So definitely, there was a lot of disruption due to that. Further, typically in the extreme summer, the productions do drop because of the weather-related issues. But already, productions have picked up significantly, and we expect that in the coming quarter, production numbers are going to be very strong. We are very confident to achieve our targeted production of 10,000 wagons for the year, which we have projected. Okay. Appreciate it. Second question is around the EV. So while I understand that we must be doing some kind of pilot exercise by testing the EVs, have you also started doing marketing of it? And while the production is going to start towards October that you have given an indication of, what is the kind of order book expectation that you have going into the next quarter or the quarter that we are already into? So, in terms of the market demand, I think we are seeing a significant demand from the market, and there is a lot of, I think, that demand is going to keep on picking up. As you're aware, that our vehicle is for the last mile connectivity, and there is a significant price advantage which we offer. Initially, definitely, we are looking at the B2B segment and mainly the aggregators, and we are seeing a very strong interest from them. We are very, very confident that once we launch, we'll immediately fill up all our order books. So we don't see any challenge in terms of the demand. And today, if you look at competition, in this segment, there is hardly any competition which is there. So we have very high expectations from the segment. When do you intend to start going and taking the orders for the products? I think we are already in discussions, and we expect to build our order books very shortly. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Sachin, an individual investor. Please go ahead, sir. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Please go ahead. Okay. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on very good results. My first question was around the EV. So you're talking about 500 units in the inaugural year. So is this December or March? What's the timeline that you're looking at for 500 units? When we talk about 500 units, we are talking about this financial year. This financial year. Okay. And what is the strategy? So if a customer wants to acquire these vehicles, do they need to go to a dealer, or do they need to come to the company, and how do we service these products and so on? I'm asking because service itself is another manufacturer. I think it's going to be a mixed channel, but we will be rolling it very shortly. Okay. Okay. My next question was around. I saw that one of the subsidies that you've listed is into drones. So is that something that you can actually tell us about? What is the business here and what are we looking at? So that is just a small offset of the electric mobility business. So again, that is something which is a work in progress. I think, again, right now, there is nothing significant which I can elaborate on that. But yes, maybe down the road, we can speak a little bit more. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think the other questions were similar to what I was able to ask. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Balasubramanian from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question, sir. Sir, on the container side, we are making special containers for data centers. And if you could throw some light on what kind of demand we are experiencing in those sides because a lot of development is happening on data centers. And what are the realizations for these containers? And if you could share what's the margin difference between these marine containers, normal containers, and these special containers? And we also have a tie-up with Log9 Materials. We are only supplying these containers, or we are supplying the complete packages? These are my first questions. So today, I think we are seeing a significant demand on the container side. Today, we are looking to now enhance our capacities because I think for the year, our capacities are fully utilized. So again, we are supplying a mix of integrated containers, which we will start supplying shortly, and just containers for both data centers as well as for battery applications. Right now, we are not in the business of marine containers because we have already migrated to the more value-added containers. So we are not taking any new order books for marine containers. In terms of margins, definitely, in terms of realization per container and margin, also there is a significant difference between a marine container and a better data center container. Now, again, right now, I'll not be able to tell you in terms of the exact numbers, but definitely, there is a significant difference in terms of margins. Okay. Perfect. Sir, on the EV side, if you look at some big players like Ashok Leyland, Tata, these players have small trucks around 1, 2, 3 tons in that range. And these are like diesel and diesel petrol and CNG variants. The realization ranges are between base model around INR 4-5 lakhs, and the maximum can go to INR 7-8 lakhs kind of ranges on the realization side. So we are also launching in those range only, 1, 2, 3 tons. And I just want to understand what kind of realizations we are pricing in our EV vehicles and where we are witnessing demand. And you're talking about some of the orders whether we are in discussion with logistics players or any specific areas we are focusing on it because recently, I have attended one of the logistics companies. They are significantly increased their EV fleet. I just want to understand the overall perspective of that new business. So we are in talks with all logistics companies and all the players in the sector, and we see a significant demand from them. As I've told you, we have no concerns in terms of order books. Again, we cannot reveal the price point right now. I think shortly, we'll reveal our price point. But I think if you look at Tata has rolled out a vehicle in this segment, and they are priced anything, I think it's close to INR 14-16 lakhs is the price of the vehicle depending on the type of vehicle. But again, for us to give numbers right now, I think it's a little early. You will see the numbers shortly from. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics. Please go ahead, sir. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity again. Just one question on the outlook. So we are looking for 30% plus volume growth this year in wagon side, right? And I think we did approach INR 3,000 crore in FY 24. So in considering that, we will get around INR 250-300 crore from brake segment as well, coupled with our other segments of commercial bodies, etc., that contributed around INR 500 crore in FY 24. And we are also seeing EV coming in Q3, 500 units, you are saying. So considering all these things, all these areas, can we close INR 5,000 crore this year, or do you see any challenge to it? No. So I don't know in terms of see, as I've told you, our wagon numbers will be around 10,000, and we are very confident of achieving that. So again, in terms of all the other numbers put together, again, right offhand, I cannot say that whether we will, in terms of revenue, what will be the final number. But yes, I think on a group level, accounting for all the businesses, I think it will be very close to those kind of numbers which you have talked about. But again, offhand, I cannot give you the breakup on any numbers. Understood, sir. Just last question on the wheelset. Like you mentioned, we'll do a 30,000 wheelset. Is that number correct for this year? Not this year. We are going to ramp up our capacity to 30,000 wheelsets before end of this year. Will we do any number in exports, or it will be entirely captive consumption initially? I think it's not captive, but I think in the first year, we are looking at the domestic market. We want to establish ourselves in the domestic market. As I mentioned, that it will not only be for captive, but it will be to all the major buyers, including Indian Railways, all the major metro players, the other wagon manufacturers. So it will be across the board. And initially, we are looking to establish the domestic market, and I think you will start seeing exports shortly, I think. So will there be any sale in this segment? It will only happen once we are fully integrated. Got it. So will there be any sale in this year from wheel sets? Yes. We have already started in the Q1 itself. We had revenues of around INR 70-odd crores, and we expect to close this year with anything between INR 300-400 crores of revenue. Understood. This is after consolidation of the new entity that we acquired, right? Yes. Yes. Got it, sir. Thank you very much, sir, and all the best for the future. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from SUD Life. Please go ahead, sir. Sir, if I understand your wheelset exports would set you a higher realization and a higher margin, and also backed by our promoters, then why are we not going first to the export and then going for domestic first? That is my first. As I've told you, exports we can target once we achieve our backward integration. Which will happen in the next two years. I think once we have the backward integration, then only we want to focus on the exports. So initially, our focus is going to be the Indian markets. But yes, as we progress, we will start seeing exports also happening from the business. So from forging, when we start that, then only we can export. Is that right to understand? Yes. The majority of the exports will start happening once we set up the forging facility. Okay. Now that we are doing machining and assembling, what should be the incremental revenue once we achieve the forging backward integration, and what sort of margin we can look at? So once we have the complete backward integration, I have already mentioned that the revenues will be anything between INR 3,000-4,000 crore we are expecting. Margins, obviously, will definitely improve. It will be 15%+ EBITDA margin what we are looking at once we are fully integrated. Okay, sir. I'll turn it back. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rupali, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, and congratulations on good numbers. My question is regarding commercial vehicles' perspective. In the last call, you said that government scrapping policy has been implemented from April 2023. So this policy will create a potential of around 900,000 vehicles. So can you throw some color like what progress has been done in that or any order which has contributed in our order book? So again, it's not only the scrapping, obviously, that will play a significant part, but the overall move towards the cleaner vehicles, especially in the metros and the major cities. And that is where we are targeting. As if you see the market, this segment which we are focusing on, that 1-2-3-ton vehicle, that itself, the market size is around 600,000 vehicles. So our assumption is that even if there is a 20% conversion which happens in the next couple of years, the demand will be close to about 100,000 vehicles in this segment, which is a very significant demand. And today, the industry has a very small capacity. So we see a big opportunity in this segment. So currently, are any numbers showing in our order book? So, no. As I've mentioned, we are launching the vehicle in October, and we are now starting; we are going to start building our order books. And as for the demand, we are seeing a huge traction and demand in this segment. So, in terms of from the demand side, we don't see any challenges. Okay. Which competitors you are looking for in this category? So I think we are going to be competing mainly with the major OEMs such as, I think, Tata Motors, again, the likes of today, I think the only vehicle in the market is from Tata Motors in this segment. There is no other vehicle which is launched. But we believe that Switch Mobility is going to launch the vehicle shortly. Okay. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arjun Agrawal, an individual investor. Please go ahead, sir. Hello. Am I audible, sir? Yes, sir. Yeah. Yes, sir. Very good afternoon, sir. Sir, my question is regarding this. Actually, most of the questions have been answered. But, sir, this BESS business, so regarding the container business, can you just elaborate a bit more on what's the cost of the total? What's the cost of the single container in the BESS segment, and what are the inquiries from the market currently? So again, completely integrated containers can be anything depending upon the size and the type of battery capacity can range between INR 60 lakhs to up to INR 2 crores. And so the price range varies depending on the kind of demand which is the product which is needed. In terms of we are now working with all the major players in this segment, be it GE, be it Schneider, be it Tata Solar, Reliance. You name any major player, we are now working with. We already started exports to North America. So I think this is a business which we have very, very strong expectations from. In continuation, I just want to ask that what's our role in this business? What we are doing, are we making just a simple container? Currently, we are making the containers. But as I mentioned, I think before the end of the year, we will start making the integrated solutions also. With the help of Log9, that's how JV means we have a collaboration with Log9? Yes. Yes. Right now, yes. Okay. So, sir, the last question is, sir, I just want to make it clear to understand better that we will be supplying the whole package as a BESS system with a container and completely. We'll be supplying individual containers as well as the whole package. It will be a mix depending upon the demand from the customers. Okay. So it must be very costly. We'll be exporting the same also to the North American and European markets. Okay. For the last one, just a small question. Yes, sir. Okay. I'll get back in the queue. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. We have another five minutes because we have a hard stop at 1:30 P.M. Okay. So the GE order that we have received, and we are working on it. So if you just elaborate that what kind of work we are doing over there in the container business, BESS segment? I think right now, we cannot elaborate further because a lot of it is also proprietary information. Again, we have a lot of NDAs with all our customers. So it will be fine, sir. It's very difficult for us to elaborate anything on this business, sir. Totally. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir, for your elaborate answer. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Aakash Datta from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking. Please go ahead, sir. Hello, Aakash, sir. Hello? Yeah. Hello. Hello. Yes, sir. Yeah. Thanks again for the opportunity. Yeah. So my question is more for the containers business, sir. What is the time we are looking at? I mean, what is the total addressable market from, let's say, if we look at the business from a 2-3-year standpoint? So overall, I think globally, today, it is a business of more than 5 gigawatts. And it will be, I think it's projected in the next three years to be about a 10-gigawatt business. Again, in terms of size, I think it runs into billions of dollars. Right now, China is one of the most significant players. So I think the Government of India is now pushing for India to develop the capacities. I think in the coming year, India is going to play a significant part, and a lot of major Indian players are now entering the segment. So we see a big opportunity in this segment. I think, yeah, I think sky is the limit is how fast you can develop capabilities and capacities and how cost-effective you are going in the future. Got it. So if I were to look for Jupiter, we did around INR 130 crore-INR 140 crore in container revenue last year. So do you think this number can go to, let's say, by FY26, FY27? Again, to give a number right now, will not do justice. But as I have told you, it is a focus area, and we expect that this business will contribute significantly to our revenues. But honestly, right now, we will not do any justice to give any kind of numbers. So in general, sir, if I speak about the non-wagons revenue that we have currently, that is all combined, let's say, from brake system, from wheelsets, so you explained us, apart from wheels and wagons, can we expect the business to grow at a 20%-25% figure? Should that be comfortable? See, as I've mentioned, that by 2028, we expect at least more than 50% of our revenues to come from our non-wagon business. Again, I stand by that. Non-wagon business is going to produce significantly towards our revenues. And that will include wheels as well, right? Interrupt, sir. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. I can just take one more caller now because I have a 1:30 P.M. hard stop. One more caller. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Yeah. Thank you. In closing, I extend my sincere gratitude to our dedicated team, partners, and shareholders for their steadfast support. Achievements in Q1 FY25 reflect our commitment to innovation, sustainability, and excellence. As we move forward, we are excited about the future and remain committed to driving transformation in the mobility sector, delivering cutting-edge solutions that meet the evolving needs of our customers and stakeholders. Thank you for your time and attention. We look forward to interacting in the next call. Thank you. On behalf of Systematix Institutional Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.