Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the C.E. Info Systems Q4 FY24 earnings conference call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Gavin. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of DAM Capital, we welcome you all to Q4 FY24 conference call of C.E. Info Systems, better known as MapmyIndia. We have with us Mr. Rakesh Verma, co-founder and CMD of the company; Mr. Rohan Verma, CEO and Executive Director; Mr. Anuj Jain, CFO; and Mr. Saurabh Somani, Company Secretary. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Verma for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Anmol, and welcome to all the participants today on MapmyIndia's quarterly and yearly results. I'm happy to announce that the FY 2024 results are quite good. Total income has been at INR 417.6 crore. Revenue from operations grew 35% to INR 379.4 crore. EBITDA margin is at 41%, and PAT margin is 32%. Behind all this is the open order group, or open order book, that grew 49% to INR 1,372 crore at the end of FY 2024. Annual new order bookings grew 63% to INR 834 crore in FY 2024. FY 2024 completes three-year track record of revenue from operations CAGR of 38%. Q4 FY 2024 revenue from operations grew 47% to INR 106.9 crore, crossing for the first time a quarterly 100 crore milestone. Also, the board today approved dividend of INR 3.50, 175% of the face value per equity share. With these opening remarks and few more information that I would like to share with you, is our maps-led business and IoT-led business. These are the two important pillars of the company. The maps-led business EBITDA margin remains healthy at 54%, and our IoT-led business EBITDA margin has expanded from 1.7% in FY 2023 to 11.6% in FY 2024, as product mix, scale, and SaaS income increased. Revenue from IoT-led business grew 91% year-on-year to cross an important revenue milestone of INR 112 crore, with EBITDA growing 13x from INR 1 crore in FY 2023 to INR 13 crore in FY 2024. The business has now been fully integrated with growing scale, further operation, leverage, which, will begin to kick in. What I meant to is the merger and acquisition of Gtropy, which [inaudible] owns 76%, is truly complete in all respects. Also, further, I... I, I think with, with these opening statements, I would like Rohan Verma to give you more flavor on the business operations. Thank you, Mr. Verma. Good evening, everybody. Just as Mr. Verma said, you know, with EBITDA margins at 41%, that means INR 156.2 crores of EBITDA, and PAT margin of 32% means a PAT of INR 134.4 crores. The order book achievements that Mr. Verma talked about give us the further confidence that we're on track to our stated milestone of crossing INR 1,000 crore revenue by FY 2027, FY 2028. As you said, our open order book is at INR 1,372 crores at end of FY 2024, and also our annual new order bookings grew by 63% to INR 834 crores. Now, the revenue growth in FY 2024 was 25%. It was pretty broad-based. The consumer tech and enterprise digital transformation revenue was up 49% year-over-year to INR 194 crores, and automotive and mobility tech revenue was up 23% to INR 186 crores. You know, 2.5+ million new vehicles went, built in with MapmyIndia mapping solutions, up from 1.9 million during FY 2023. So this showed faster than industry growth uptake of our Auto NCASE suite technology solutions amongst OEMs, including the new age EV companies. And also we achieved 52% growth in the number of IoT devices installed during the year to 2.9+ lakhs, and that led to significant growth in our IoT business. We're happy that the results of our prudent marketing efforts has led to us crossing the milestone of now 20 million user downloads of the Mappls app, and we see this as a foundation to further grow our consumer business in the time to come. Of course, we are continuously kind of innovating. That's the core of our business, to build better and better products across maps, across IoT, across drones, across the Digital Twin, across our software solutions. So that continues to happen in the years. We've shared the investor deck with, with, on the stock exchange, so I know that has all the details. Probably it's better if we leave the questions for Time for the questions. Time for the questions, and then we can take up the remaining parts in the... Yeah, Anmol, you can take it forward. Thank you very much. We will now proceed with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, hi, Rohan. Congratulations on strong numbers. I had a couple of things to ask. Firstly, for the fourth quarter, we have seen very strong growth in the IoT business, along with doubling of the margins in the segment. So is it that, more and more existing customers are opting towards SaaS, or are we successfully selling more SaaS to the new customers, I mean, without requirement of selling, the devices as such? See, we've always said that the IoT-led business is an IoT-hardware-led SaaS business. So the growth in selling of devices would eventually lead to high, high-margin SaaS revenue, and you're seeing that play out quarter on quarter, year on year. There is growth in the devices also that we are selling or renting, but also there is even larger growth in the SaaS income that's coming. So from any customer that we acquire ends up becoming a SaaS revenue for us over time, and that leads to the growth in the margin. You're seeing the margin in Q4 of IoT-led business at about 17.5% in Q4. Sure. So I also meant that are we also selling only SaaS to these IoT customers without the need of actually selling the devices? Is this also happening? It might be happening. I don't have the data exactly how many of that and how many with devices, but generally take it as devices are the drivers for the SaaS business. Yeah, I mean, and just to add to that, look, for every customer, the benefit that MapmyIndia has is there are multiple use cases, multiple products and solutions, IoT devices being one. But there's a whole host of software that we can sell to enterprise customers for their different use cases. So anytime we get a customer, we are constantly talking with them about what more we can do with them, and that leads to growth from existing customers. Sure. Secondly, if you look at the map business, then it has grown at around 20% in FY 2024. Now, our INR 1,000 crore revenue guidance implies that our revenue growth between 30%-38%, depending on FY 2027 or 2028. So do we believe that the map businesses will accelerate in growth, or should we consider that the larger part of the growth will continue to come from the IoT-led business? These are two, you know, there's two different vectors, map-led and IoT-led. These are two pillars of the company, and third will come up, which is drones. But, you know, map-led software has its own use cases. Map-led solutions have its own use cases for a different set of customers, and IoT has its own use cases. Hard to say, you know, which one will be larger or smaller. Both have their own growths. You are seeing the track record of the growth, but hard to say which one, But another way to look at it is if you ask the question that how much will be the hardware in a thousand growth, probably that would give you a better perspective rather than saying IoT-led business or map-led business. Because IoT-led business also has a strong SaaS component. The devices are helping us in... Actually, you know, you also are able to lock in all these customers when you also have devices. Right. Right. So can we assume that hardware as a percentage will keep on going down from here on? Well, last year, how much was the hardware? I think the financials tell you clearly the sale of hardware was out of INR 386, INR 379 crores. It was something like 60, some 60 crores. Sale of 67. 67 crores, which is something like less than 20%. 15, 16%. Right. Right. Sure. And lastly, just wanted to talk on the INR 400 crore contract that we had announced during the middle of the quarter. So if you can indicate how much was the net new proportion of that, of that particular contract, and when can it start converting into revenues? I think we have announced it, saying it's for a period of five years, that INR 400 crore, so you can understand that, and it will start kicking in from Q2. It's map-led? It's map-led. Sure. Sure, sir. I'll join back in the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vimal Gohil from Alchemy Capital Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations on a very strong quarter. So firstly, on a related question to what Anmol asked, in the previous question. Your core maps business, if you look at it in the last four quarters, that is, throughout FY 2024, it has been in that range of INR 66 odd crores per quarter. Do you see the new contract, the INR 400 crore contract went to sort of help this business get out of that INR 66 crore range and move forward? And secondly, on the order book, we have reported INR 1,372 crores of orders. Any... Has there been any change, in terms of, you know, the order timelines, or is it, is it broadly, remaining the same, in terms of execution? Thank you so much. The second part is the same as before. There's nothing qualitatively different. This is, it's our business continues to be what it was before, so the order book is reflective in a similar manner. So on the first part, yeah, given that this INR 400 crore deal with Hyundai Kia is all map-led, we'll of course, you know, see a big, big boost to the map-led business over the course of time, from this, from Q2. From, from Q2, it will start showing up. Right. And, and sir, one follow-up. On the order book, the new orders of INR 834 crore, that includes the INR 400 crore from Hyundai Kia? Yeah, it does. Understood. Understood. All right. Thank you so much, and all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lokesh Manik from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead. Yes, good evening to the team. My question was, if you can share the revenue distribution between digital maps, map development and integration and geospatial analytics, would that be possible across these three segments? Revenue in a few ways, which we've shared. Sure. MM revenue and CNE revenue from market side, then we've also shared map-led and IoT-led revenue. Map-led is basically all the things that you talked about, and we've also shared historically, the map and data revenue. Right ... versus the platform and IoT revenues. That gives you a sense on all of the aspects. Okay. My second question was, you know, on players like Esri, Autodesk, Trimble, Volta, these would be our customers, or they would be our competitors in the Indian market? See, the thing about MapmyIndia is we play in so many parts of the value chain. Right. Our offering is wide, you know, all the way from map data to APIs, to software, to IoT. You know, if you look at any other player- Right ... they are, if they are a competition, they are only competition in particular part of our portfolio. Okay. To a customer, we provide the widest gamut, and that's why customers choose us. Now, with any of these ecosystem players- Mm ... there's always a possibility of cooperation, where their solution and our solution together- Mm ... can go to the customer if need be. Mm. So, I would say that, you know, we don't look at anybody as just plain vanilla competition. Okay. We look at what the customer wants. We have a wide bouquet to offer to the customer, but we also have the ability to enter the customer or service the customer with one part and then grow our business over time. Sir, just for clarification, would this understanding be correct, that map and data product revenue would be pertaining to basically the data side of the business, and platform and IoT would be based on your analytics or value-added services that you can offer over and above the pure data that you offer? Would that understanding broadly be correct? Yeah, more or less. Okay. Understood. Understood. That's it from my side. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shobhit Singhal from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead. Thank you. Congrats on the strong revenue growth and order book, sir. I have two, three questions. So, sir, recently we have partnered with boAt for their smart watch. So, how big is the potential here, and how are we booking revenue from it? It's a spectacular partnership. It's a great company with a great product. I would encourage everybody to buy the boAt Storm Call 3 watch. They've really implemented navigation quite well using our SDK and API, so that consumers can get a pretty interesting kind of navigation experience. It's considered a consumer type and enterprise digital transformation customer, and it falls under kind of map-led revenue. If it is, our revenue model is licensing, as we said, for our, you know, per device. So we have factored this order book as well on our volume-based order book, right? In open order book of around INR 1,372 crores? Yes. See, I don't want to go into specific contract or specific customer, doesn't, it doesn't- Okay. It doesn't, it's not right on my part to do that. So, we will book as order the contracted value with the customer. But if we have a volume-based, you know, that happens above and beyond the contracted value, that will come as order booking at the time of the billing and the revenue recognition. Now, you, we've explained this in the past also, that- Okay. And sir, a follow-up on the IoT margin side, so we have seen a sharp improvement here. So at what level it can get stable from the current level? As intended, so we are at 12%, 11.6% EBITDA margins with the IoT-led business in this year. That increased from 1.7% the year before, and every quarter you're seeing the increase. It is now at around 17% in Q4, the EBITDA of the IoT-led, EBITDA margin of the IoT-led business. I mean, we, we are constantly looking at ways to increase. You know, it's happening in a natural way also, because, you know, the, the devices that we have sold in the past have started generating the, the SaaS part of it. And, you know, SaaS part, the beauty is, your fixed cost of the employees don't increase, and hence you get the margin. Okay. As the time goes by, the devices that we have sold in the past or will keep selling only will add up to the SaaS revenue. Understood. And, and sir, on our order book, so, fixed pricing order book has just grown by around 7% year-on-year, and last year it was around -8% year-on-year. So are we not, focusing more on the fixed, based order book here? See, the order book for a customer happens based on what the customer wants. It's not that, we have to, we have to do something like that. So that's, that's... What you're seeing is what the reality is. I mean, if customers want to give us a contracted value and also provide us the volume-based benefit, that's not bad for us, it's good only. And if it's fixed pricing that they want, where it is known to us specifically, that this is the amount that we will get for our IP, then that's also okay for us. It's not that, you know, we are going after one or the other. We are basically, our interest is that more our solutions are used by the customer, the more we end up getting paid for it. Okay. And sir, on our receivable days, so it has increased to around 100 days from 70 to 75 days earlier. So, this is because of the more government order. I mean, is that okay? Well, it has increased for a couple of ways. One is when you, the billing was much more in the month of March in that quarter, so naturally, that had an impact. And the overall business that's growing. Sometimes we acquire some good customers, we need to give some benefit to them, including the payment terms. So I think we are in a good situation that our working capital requirement definitely has gone up, but then we also have accordingly enough cash in the company. So I will call it like an organic investment in the working capital to increase our business revenue. If you look at our overall working capital cycle, it's pretty, pretty good. I mean, paid, receivable days, plus payable days, minus inventory days. I think we've shared it on slide 19. Yes. You'll see it's quite well managed, you know, and... Right. And so lastly, so on the consumer MAP or B2B side and on the international front, so how, how are we looking on this side of business in the long term? Thank you. I heard about international and maybe consumer. Consumer, huh. On the international front, yeah, things are going quite well. We're on track with what our efforts and objectives are. We'll see something happen in this year. I'll say, so that's, FY 2025 is a good focus here for getting international into certain size and shape. And consumer also, things are set up quite well. You know, we crossed. I think we announced that we crossed INR 10 million in Q3, and now we've announced that we've crossed 20 million user downloads in the app, I mean, as of Q4. So things are looking good. We have to do a lot more, and we are focused on doing that. All right. So last time, on the Diwali time, also, we had. So we have got some good contract from Cadbury on the B2B side, B2C side. So are we getting more contract on that front? Yeah, there will, there will be. I mean, nothing that we have to talk about right now. That we wanted to give you a sense that, you know, this is how one part of monetization of the Maps app will happen. There are n number of ways that we are looking to monetize or generate revenue based on Maps app traction. So, that's part of the effort for FY 25. Oh, thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please go ahead. Hey. Hi, Rohan. Thanks for taking the question. So, Rohan, just to understand the order book and the business better, right? So now you also have a sizable IoT business, both hardware and software, right? Which is INR 40 crore run rate, so say INR 160 crore for the year and more. So logically, that would not be sitting in the order book, right? Because that is when you literally sell the hardware and get the subscription in. So how should we think about the conversion of the current order book, which is INR 1,372 crore, and would this IoT be on top, whatever you sell? Yeah, if a device, obviously, you know, we can't get... I mean, you're right, it doesn't sit in the order book. No, no, it sits in the annual order booking, but doesn't sit in the open order. I think that- Yeah. that should clarify it. Correct. Correct. Because we'll book it when we bill it, when we provide it to the customer, so. Sir, so the question is, in your revenue for FY 2024, which is, which is the total of, INR 380 crores, that, that revenue that you booked, in that, how much would have been, the orders which you would have received in FY 2024 itself? We are just trying to understand that. Would what would be the percentage of the INR 380 crores, where the orders would have been received in FY 2024 itself, and the revenue would have also been recognized in 2024 itself? So INR 280 crore was our revenue in FY 2023, INR 380 crore was our revenue in FY 2024. We did 511 or 512 crore of annual new order bookings in FY 2023, 834 in FY 2024. And we started the year at, nine eighteen crores of open order book and ended the year at 1,372 crore. If you, if you kind of do the addition, subtraction of that, you'll get some idea- Uh-huh. -of what, you know, what was in your orders, but I mean, and the split of the revenue from that. But, I mean, just suffice to say that INR 834 crore of new orders were booked in FY 2024. Three eighty was the revenue that was generated in FY 2024. Rohan, the idea is, you know, you have INR 100 and 100-odd crore, which has come from IoT, right? I'm assuming that is not part of your opening order book, right? So I have some sense out there. I'm just trying to understand, because it will help me look at your business better, because it just gives me that much more clarity for FY 2025 revenue. I know what you're, what you're trying to ask. It's not that the IoT order, nothing is booked as, as in, nothing is... Or put it this way, out of the 13, what, Seventy crores. 70 crore, if you're asking me, is there any IoT order in that open order? Correct? No, I'm asking a very simple factual question, actually, that in INR 380 crore, how much of it came from my last year's open order book, and how much of it came from the orders which were booked during the year? So I might have booked, let's say, INR 150 crore, INR 200 crore of revenue with the orders that I might have received during the year, which were not even part of my open order book. I'm just trying to get that breakup, because that just gives me a much greater visibility in FY 2025 and 2026 as I build it forward, right? You have really a good question. We have not done the analysis exactly the way you're asking. It is something that maybe in the future we will try to talk about it. Yeah. But Rohan, if you have some idea, you- Yeah, it's somewhat in that range. And, I mean, when you say that, look, we've done INR 112 crore kind of IoT-led business in the year versus INR 380 crore total and INR 112 crore in IoT-led, balance in map-led. So some part of the IoT-led is, of course, from the new order, and even... But even some part of the map-led, it's- If I have to give just a simple number, ballpark number, I can tell you right now, maybe out of 380, 100- Yeah. 100 plus might be the orders that came during the year. Yeah. The rest came from the previous, open order. Yeah. That is, that is very helpful. Thank you. Just, one more, one more question. So, the other breakup which you gave, right? Consumer, enterprise, and tech, and automotive, right? So, is it fair to assume, given your IoT business largely today is auto-based solution, would the whole revenue of IoT be sitting in automotive? No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, I mean, AMM is Automotive and Mobility Tech. Correct. C&E is Consumer Tech and Enterprise Digital Transformation. IoT sits in both, just like Map sits in both. Understood. ...So it's not that it's just automotive, so it's both? Oh, no, it's both. Okay, understood. Thanks a lot. It's used for enterprise digital transformation. Got it. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Moez Chandani from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good evening, and thank you for taking my question. Good evening. Can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Thanks, thanks for taking my question. My first question was, on the Map-led business. So, your EBITDA margins in the business, seems to have seen a decline. They were about 56% in Q2, and they're about 49% in Q4. So anything that's happened there that's led to a decline in margins, and how should we think about these margins moving forward? He's saying MapmyIndia business. How much is the MapmyIndia business in Q4? Q4. Q4, it's at 49.2%, on slide seven. We've always been clear. Don't look at the business quarter by quarter and do this quarter, quarter comparison. Four percent. Yeah. The business is an annual business. Sure. The comparable is year to date, year on year. So just if you- Sure ... look at one quarter versus another, especially in map and data type things, you'll find lumpiness. All right. All right, understood. Secondly, any plans that you have in the cash balance that you have currently? I think INR 557 crores of cash was mentioned in your presentation. So, any plans on returning this cash or would you want to use this- Return the cash to whom? For growth of the business or anything else? No, for the shareholders or for in terms of inorganic growth. So- I don't allow us to grow the business. Sure. All right. All right, understood. And, thirdly, you mentioned that your international expansion is also taking shape. So is this driven more by your IoT-led business or more by your Map-led business? At this time, it's more Map-led and automotive-led. Okay, understood. So, if I can ask, what is the moat that we have here? Because I'm assuming that most international geographies would already have some incumbent mapping providers already. So what's the moat that enables MapmyIndia to gain scale here? Moat is one... Probably, you must be thinking moat in terms of the maps that we've been making for 25 years. Right. But there can be also moat in terms of the customer base that you have, number one. There can be also moat in terms of the technology that we have built. So the moat is not just that. So now to, help you a bit understand how to, are we approaching that, so let us announce that, what, how, when that happens in, let's say, Q2, Q3, whenever, you'll get a better, more perspective out of it. All right, understood. All right. Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jayesh Gandhi from Harshad Gandhi Securities. Please go ahead. So my question is on slide number 34, which talks about total addressable market in government segment. Which is that there is INR 100,000 crore of opportunity in geospatial. And I just want to understand what is the opportunity that we are looking specifically there, maybe in value terms? I mean, you know, last year's Investor Day in June, we really explained in depth, kind of, you know, while the government has said, Indian government has said that by 2030 this will be a INR 100,000 crore geospatial economy. And, you know, geospatial cuts across all aspects of government, whether central, state, local or defense or, you know, all sorts of use cases of the government, including for emergency response, or for property taxation. Every part of governance depends on geospatial actually. It's a core technology, and there is kind of, I would say, significant opportunities available there. Now, it's a matter of being the right company with the right business model or capabilities, being a OEM, a product and platform company, with a kind of different... Not just being a pure play services kind of company, having that capacity. Those are the things that make a difference in doing the right way of government business. Last year in June, we explained very nicely in Investor Day. I'd refer you to that, where we talked about what are the use cases for us and how we are going about building the government business. Okay. On slide number 36, where you have explained about how you will be achieving that INR 1,000 crore mark by FY 2027-28. In that, while I was looking at, in the same government segment, I was looking at the weighted average ticket price of INR 1.2 crore per 1,000 customers. Am I missing on something? So, one customer might give you, I mean, one government customer, maybe local body or anything, might be giving you just a INR 1.2 crore of revenue? So weighted average, obviously the revenue distribution would be high amongst government customers. Some are very large contracts and some are relatively small. We're trying to give a sense of what the industry revenue potential is. And it's also, yeah, just kind of what opportunities. The answer to your question is it's not all INR 1.2 crore. Obviously, it's a distribution. ... So because I was just looking at one of the companies which is already into, U.S.-listed company. It got few contracts, from, two, three municipalities. The contract size were mostly upwards of INR 25 crore or INR 30 crore or INR 50 crore. That is why I was just, curious to know your reply on this. I can just add a few of my thoughts on that. See, the way we are approaching government business is through our products and platform. The one you are talking about is a pure vanilla services, work, and I know you are talking about the digital twin or whatever that whole thing is, since you mentioned as a listed company, I can make out. Now, whether that INR 25 crores or INR 30 crores is a services, what that will lead to, I don't want to answer. But as far as MapmyIndia is concerned, we are, we have want to remain focused with our product and platform in the government and using that as a solution. I can give you one example, which is live, the UP Police 112. Now, that is going, probably going to become one of the most, desirable or most, advanced, emergency response system for the police all across the country. Now, that is, that is using our several products and platforms. We didn't get into that services kind. Similarly, for a property tax in Maharashtra, one of the urban cities, we have, what you're talking about, the one, the one you talked about, equivalent of that, I'm talking about. We don't want to just do some services and hand over. We are doing using drone, using our map data products and platforms, this, the business over that, and that's also running into double-digit revenue. So there is a different, there is a huge difference in the business model, what you are talking about, so-called competition and how we approach. Our approach has been always use the IP, intellectual property, rather than, and license it rather than hand over as a service and forget about it, forget about it as a one-time revenue. I hope that will help you understand the difference between the two companies. I get it, sir. That, that is pretty much clear. And, in one of the, TV appearances, management did touch upon their, aspiration to grow inorganic in this area. Are we close to any, any acquisition here then now? I didn't exactly understand that. We couldn't hear the question. I'm talking about Digital Twin. Oh, Digital Twin. What is the question on Digital Twin? That's what I explained to you. We are working with... What is the question? My question is that, management was looking at any inorganic growth here. So are we, are we, have we zeroed down on any acquisition there? See, we have developed our own technology, and I gave you the example of couple of them just now, how our digital twin strategy is that take the product and the platform and solve the customer's problem rather than rather than taking somebody else's digital twin, which may not be a product, which might be just a services. I think there's a fundamental difference. We are far more advanced when it comes to the map data, the map platform, the digital twin technology, the solutions on top of it, far, far more advanced. We don't, we don't have to talk about it too much, so it's, and it's all happening organically. I get it, sir. One last question: Will the margins also remain similar to what existing we are in doing? Margins for? In this segment, government. Yeah. I mean, see, products and platforms in general, this is for us, it's all enterprise. I mean, my customers, depending on who the customer is, margin can be higher or lower. But in general, our business model is, it covers enterprise, be it in public sector or private sector. Got it, sir. Thank you very much, and best of luck for the future. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, just wanted to ask a bookkeeping question. So, there was a slight increase in technical service outsource cost, which went from INR 3 crore to INR 8.5 crores, I think in this quarter. So if you can indicate what is this related to, and what can be a normalized level of this cost that we can assume in the future? The more the business grows, there may be... there will be technical services outsourced. We, I mean, this is part of the way we are organized and the part of way we deliver our solutions to the customers. Sure, sir. Sir, is this anywhere related to updation of the map, sort of? No, no, no, no, not that. Not that. Sure. Sure. Sir, secondly, just wanted to understand, currently, what is the revenue that we are obtaining from drones, and what is the strategy regarding that going ahead? ... See, the drones are part of, yeah, the way that, you know, we're doing quite a bit of business leveraging the power of drones and drone tech, it is part of our integrated offering. Like the example that Mr. Verma gave about property tax solution for a municipality or a urban town in Maharashtra. Like that, there are a bunch of smart cities or urban development authorities in the states where we are working, where the drone-based distribution is part of our solution. So we are providing drones or drone-based services as overall part of our solution. We are not yet at the stage where we are able to break out the drone-led business. I mean, it is not at that stage yet. It is sitting inside map-led, but over time, we see that happening. When we start going after drone-specific solutions. Right now, drone is part of our integrated solution, and so we are building up strong capabilities when it comes to drones right now, whether on the hardware side or the software side or the distribution side. Sure. Sure, thanks. Thanks for the answer. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vimal Gohil from Alchemy Capital. Please go ahead. Hey, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, one question on, again, on the balance sheet. We've seen very strong increase in the net block. How do you... With the IoT business growing at the rate at which it is, how do you see the balance sheet accretion happening on this front? Say that again. Which item you are talking about in the balance sheet? The IoT business. So what I see in there is a line item which says the IoT devices on rent that has significantly gone up and even the intangible assets on the books have increased quite significantly. So if you can just- If you can just help us how this will pan out? Yeah. What you see intangible, that's our organic investment. We are building products and technology which is creating the revenue in the future. So every year we have built... Whatever products we build, and we capitalize it as an intangible asset and amortize it over a period of time, you see the revenue also coming from that. So the increase in intangible assets, I guess, should be considered more as a healthy thing, rather than me going and acquiring somebody else's technology and paying out somebody else. So this way, we keep the IP to ourselves. The first part of the rental business is again also healthy, because in that IoT rental business, the margin increases, because now we typically give it on a rental for three years. It is better than just selling pure hardware. Now, of course, we give it on rental to only such customers, like it's an operating expense for the customer, and they love it. Like, I give you one example, Telangana State Transport, TS, TSRTC, where we have installed how much? 10,000 or so GPS devices. They are on rental. The entire solution is on rental, not just the device. Okay. And, sir, that rental is for what period, typically? 36 months is a typical thing. We depreciate the hardware over 36, over three years. Okay, so the hardware sits on our books, and then we get the rental over a 36-month period. No, rental I can. I may get for more than 36 months. I might get for four years or five years, depending upon the contract we have. But the rental includes the depreciated part of the hardware, the same rental that happens and the software that we have provided. All those together is the rental income. I hope you understood now. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's clear. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sarang Sanil from RW Investment Advisors. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity, and, congrats on good sales number. My first question is continuing where, Anmol from DAM Capital left, on technical service outsourced, right? And my assumption is that there could be lumpiness in this line item as and when we grow fast. But on a very basic level, what does this cost really pertain to? Is this the cost that we incur for maybe mapping through feet on street or something else that, you can explain in a better manner? Yes, it's that. It can be that. It is definitely can be that. Think of property tax as an example. When you do property tax, there are a lot of, I mean, part of the solution is also- Platforms ... The platform, the software and our maps, and then certain data to be collected by feet on the street. Got it, got it, got it. Understood. So, so basically it is linked to specific projects, right? The technical services outsourcing are always reflected as a cost, expenses incurred for the revenue generation. Okay. Sir, Mm. and my second question: What's the progress on the QIP? Would it be raised only when we find a good inorganic opportunity, or do you have some other plan? Part in enabling the solutions through the shareholders. ...Now, if at any point of time we feel that we need it during the, we have a one-year window. Yes. Either it will happen or it will lapse. One of the two things will happen. It may happen. Sure. And this, this would be purely for inorganic opportunity, right? Yeah, generally think of that, or it could be organic also. Something special happens to us. We-- At this point of time, if you're asking me, I don't have any plans for it. Got it. Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much, and all the very best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vidyadhar Ginde from Soham Asset Managers. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Good evening. So my question was on this Hyundai order. So if you could give us some color on whether Hyundai is an existing customer, and what was the tenure and the size of the old contract, which probably I presume is continuing until Q1 FY 2025? Because I think what everybody's trying to find out is that whether this contract, this new INR 400 crore contract, will help you boost your revenue growth next year, and you'll go back to over 40% revenue growth, which will be a function of how much of it is net new, how that contract compares with the old contract, and whether the contract will converge into revenue, whether it's going to be evenly divided over five years or it's back-ended, front-ended. Appear that it probably will take, a ramp-up over a 2-3-year period as more and more vehicles use that kind of technology. So that's what I think everybody's trying to find out, because this probably is one of the best news which has come out of your company since you got listed. So it would really be useful if you could give us some color. And eventually, what everybody is trying to ask is that, will that help you drive much stronger revenue growth next year? And will you return to your, 40% revenue growth by maintaining margins at over 40%? Hyundai has been an existing customer. We are built into Hyundai cars, but as with every platform, there is a kind of, ramp down that happens. And, with new platforms, then a ramp up happens. So, existing platforms with Hyundai, Kia were ramping down, and now in Q2 again, it will ramp up with the- In a bigger way. But to answer the question, it is in a bigger way. Mm. Because, you know, with every generation of platforms, the OEMs are becoming more sophisticated in terms of buying more and more products and solutions from us for more and more use cases. So we try to explain that, look, it is there for connected embedded navigation, it is there for connected car services, it is there for real-time tracking, for call center. Bunch of, different use cases are there. And, even I think just two weeks ago, Kia itself also did a press release. We were in silent period, so, I mean, we couldn't really comment on that or put it out, but they're also talking about it on their own, about the usage of Platform India. So that's what's exciting to us, about kind of the, the new platform. So can we say that the revenue from this account next year should be significantly higher than this year? And will it... I think the main question is that, are you likely to return to the 50 confident of showing more than 40% revenue growth, which you were quite reiterating most of the time since you listed, except for the maybe last couple of quarters? Yeah. You have to look at our track record first. You see the track record last three years, 38% revenue growth CAGR. Now you look at our open order book, which has gone up to INR 1,300 crore from INR 918 crore. Order booking also we talked about. And what we have put out is that we are gunning for this milestone to cross INR 1,000 crore by FY 2027, FY 2028. We are quite focused on making sure that, you know, I think we've shown a strong track record of growth, strong track record of profitability in terms of managing the business, the financials, as well as the innovation. And we are... The market opportunity in front of us is quite exciting. It is. And it's not just a short term, it's medium term, it is also long term. Even beyond the 3-4 years, we are thinking what more we can do now for the time that will come after that. So, talking about in all of that sense, given this track record, given the open order book, given the three to four milestone, talking about just a year or quarter may not be the best way to look at our business, and it might not send the right guidance also. The guidance is what Rohan has been talking about. So, see, basically, we've already had one year, which was 35% growth, which is the last year. So I think if next year is again closer to 35 than to 40, then people will think that it's probably a 35, because your guidance was 35-40%. Yeah, that's where I was coming from. It's a bit of nitpicking, but whether you take 35 or 40% over a 5-year period, it does have a reasonable impact on the fair value and that kind of stuff. So if you want to answer that, fine. My next question was on, if you look at the devices as reported in one decimal point, take the YY growth and the revenue from it, YY growth, it looks like that you are, the price you are charging for a device is also probably gone up by 5-6%. But, if you take in two decimal, then it may not necessarily mean if it is 2.85 versus 1.94, it probably means... So are you charging a little higher for the devices this year than compared to last year? ... We have a mix of products. I mean, there's a mix of- As a whole, I'm asking, as a whole. Yeah, in general, you know, customers are becoming more and more sophisticated. We talked about in the past that with their video telematics devices, their embedded infotainment systems, connected infotainment systems. So, this, in technology also in some way, this premiumization plays there. India is becoming more sophisticated. Customers want cold chain temperature monitoring solutions. So it's, from our perspective, it's a good thing to move customers up in terms of the use cases and hence the products and the realization to us. Okay. So lastly, when you give your bifurcation, you slice it in different ways. So if you see, one is the map and data, and then you give map-led. So what is this difference between the map? Because the map and data is a subset of the map-led revenue. Can you give us some color on, what is exactly map data. So give example, what is map and data revenue and what is map-led? What is that extra map-led, which probably includes platform, I presume, because the other is IoT and platform, where you say IoT-led. So if you could give us some color on that. Okay. Give you an example. I mean, I think what we have presented is what the accounting standards of our auditors have talked about. But just to give you an idea, in the platform and the IoT, what you see, it's also maps, paths, the whole thing, right? So there are definitely many of the items which are map-led there. Whereas the map and data is just, Just, just the map and data. So I mean, map and data is subset of map-led. You know, like, I mean, I think we've done this historically, but map-led and IoT-led is a better way of presenting the business to give you an idea, it's because something is map-led or something is IoT-led. Will the margin be higher on the map-led rather than just map data, or it's actually the other way around? That's not... I don't think that quantitative difference is there. It's just, you know, what are the... Fundamentally, we're an IT company, right? So everything is high margin. The IoT devices is the one that brings down margin initially, but then leads to the higher SaaS revenue. There's one last question I could just add, if you could. So you've seen this IoT-led business margin rise dramatically from last year to this year. So do you think it's going to stabilize around this number or be a little bit higher, or it can go up much further than it is right now? It will stabilize at this number. What we have said that as IoT-led business keeps growing and more and more hardware goes into the market, the SaaS revenue will keep kicking in, which will be, SaaS revenue is very much like your map-led business, where the operating leverage kicks in. So, so that, so based on that, nothing says that, the IoT-led business, margin will stabilize at where it is today. Why should it stabilize here? Why should we look forward to a better margin? You are saying it could improve, or it will stabilize at about 17%-20%, or it could go to, say, 30%? I'm not very clear. Hard for me to do that, because unless and until I get- Could it, could it? I'm asking you, could it, because you have better color on it than we do. Just made the statement that it has gone up from where? From eight per- Two percent. Yeah, correct. Correct. Right. That's what we are saying. But you're saying that quarter-over-quarter? No, not quarter-on-quarter. I'm talking of an, let's say, 3 years down the line, is it more likely to be 17, 20, or is it likely to be say closer to 30? It can go anywhere. It is a function of every year you will see that. I mean, I know you are trying to figure out in your model. It's a good business to be in, the one that we have chosen, this IoT-led, SaaS kind of business. And you know, the nice thing is it is also very fast-growing from a revenue point of view because the market opportunity we've talked about before is so large in that, and we have this kind of big base of customers who've been using map-led, then we are able to cross-sell and upsell, IoT-led also. And also, to the IoT-led, it leads to the map-led business improving. So we are very happy with being in this business, and we are just accelerating, on all fronts here. It is a good thing that you are seeing that retrospectively, that the margins are also, going up. I can also add one more thing. Probably, we are a unique company in this whole world which has taken on both map and IoT as a business together, and that's a uniqueness that's going to place us much better than any other map company only or IoT company only. Can I say that we shouldn't be surprised if this margin rises by 2-3 percentage points every or over, say, let's say, 7-8 percentage points over a 3-4-year period? It may or may not happen, but one shouldn't be surprised if that really happens. Can I say that? I don't know. Well, you know it better than we do. How do we know? We are asking you. We have no clue. That's not fair on your part, saying we know better than you. Obviously, you do, because you know how it works rather than us. We have to do our best to create overall revenue growth, overall margin profitability growth. I think our focus is very clear, that how the revenue growth happens and how the PAT, not margin, the PAT expansion happens and how the EBITDA expansion happens. I think we are focused on these three. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. The last question is there? Oh, no. Then, Rohan, give the closing statement. And closing statement, you know, the other thing that, that must have come out from the board outcome today is that we are inducting two new independent, two new directors into the board, so expanding the board to 10 people. One of the, board members is, of course, our co-founder and CTO, Mrs. Rashmi Verma. I think you all know her, like, stellar experience and expertise, track record. We're very happy to have her back on the board. And also on the second, we have a pretty stellar experienced person from the consumer and tech and marketing and media background, Mr. Sundar Rajagopalan. Again, having, having created Magicbricks and other businesses- Thank you. As part of the Times umbrella, also coming on the board. And just to give you a context, there are four women directors in the board. You know, three-five are independent, two are non-executive, and three are executive directors. And, I mean, we really, we are, we are quite proud and quite happy that all the board members are such stellar professionals. From their own backgrounds, you can see blue chip backgrounds of all of them, whether educational or professional, and also this great mix of, you know, experience and youth of different levels of experience. I think that's kind of how we try to run the company, whether at a board level or at a management level, in a highly professional manner. With the right set of people, you are very focused on and are doing the good things, to create an enduring company. Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.