Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the C.E. Info Systems Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings conference call hosted by Arihant Capital Markets Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Natasha Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am. Thank you so much. Hello, and good evening to everyone. On behalf of Arihant Capital, I thank you all for joining into Q1 FY 2027 earning conference call of C.E. Info Systems Limited. Today from the management, we have Mr. Rakesh Kumar Verma, sir, group chairman, MD; Mr. Rohan Verma, joint MD; Mr. Anuj Jain, CFO; Mr. Saurabh Somani, sir, the CS of the company. Without any further delay, I'll hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Natasha. This is Rakesh Verma. I'll briefly talk about the Q1's achievements and the things that have happened. As we have reported on the stock exchange, we had Q1 FY 2027 revenue is up by 14.9% year-on-year to INR 139.7 crores, EBITDA at INR 56.1 crore, with EBITDA margin at 40.2%. PAT is up 8.6% to INR 49.7 crores, with PAT margin at 31.2%. The details are there in what we have loaded on the stock exchange. We have also uploaded the investor presentation where you can see the details of our performance. I would like to bring to the notice of all that our framework for reporting the market segments, we have changed from A&M and C&E, which used to be there for last five years, calling it automotive and mobility, and the other one was consumer tech and enterprise. The new framework is simple, easy to understand, and it is straight away automotive, enterprise, and government. These are the three market segments in which we operate and we earn our revenue from. If you have questions on those, we'll certainly be happy to answer that. The third point I wanted to inform all of you, and it was already announced on 30th of June, the appointment of Rohan Verma as the joint managing director of the company. With that, the company is now having stronger leadership and it should show up in the times to come. With that, let me ask Rohan to give you some of his perspective. Thank you, Mr. Verma, and good evening to everybody. This is Rohan Verma here. Two broad points from my side. One is that, and we have written this in our press release and investor presentation, would love if you go through it in more detail. Essentially on AI as the first point, AI is not new to us. We've been using AI for the last five plus years, maybe six, seven, eight years, to update and enhance our maps. It's one of the reasons why our map is the best quality and built efficiently. We've also been building AI capabilities into our products, and delivering more features and benefits to our customers. What we are doing from the recent times is leaning heavily into AI, accelerating and increasing our push into AI native product development, AI native product offerings, and AI native as an organization. That will really drive us forward, as Mr. Verma said, in a golden era manner. The other point that I wanted to talk about is so that people understand our business even better. We are a multi-product, multi-industry, and multi-use case, products, platforms, APIs, and solutions company. For 30 years, what we have been doing is continuously envisioning the future and innovating at the cutting edge of tech, building world-class and a wide variety of products and solutions. Those products and solutions, we have a rich legacy of serving thousands of enterprise customers across industry verticals, giving lot of use cases, and that is why customers work with us. Each of our products in some way or the other is complementary. That is the moat that we have, that is the flywheel that we have, and that is what is giving the opportunity of one by one unlocking this matrix of products multiplied by industry verticals. That will give us the opportunity to keep growing. We've kind of written down the details of what our Map-led products are, what our IoT-led products are, and of course, Mr. Verma talked about our market segments, automotive, OEMs, enterprises, government. We've explained the details of that, who all comprises in that, and you'll see that that gives us a lot of opportunity to grow. There is no other company like us when it comes to deep tech products, in India or even, I would say, around the world. As the market in India and then slowly internationally will grow, this will give us the right to win and right to achieve excellent growth in the time to come. With that, we'd love to take your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may please press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please proceed with your question. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I have a few questions. Rohan, firstly, congratulations on the JMD position. Just wanted to understand what is the key focus area for the first couple of years, any particular industry or vertical that you want to focus on the business herein? That will be my first question. Sure. There are lot of opportunities ahead for us, as I kind of mentioned in this matrix of products multiplied by industry verticals, right? Some of the big areas that we've been seeing as green shoots. Obviously, there's a very strong core business where we have extreme amount of market leadership, which is the map-based automotive business and the map-based enterprise business. That is being looked after very well already. It's the driver for profits and kind of base load of revenue, and there also there are growth opportunities. There are other places where there's stronger growth in the nearer term also possible, where we've been investing behind, which is the public sector business, which is government, and the IoT-driven business, which cuts across industries. In public sector, as we talked about earlier, defense, oil and gas, these are two of the areas where there are lot of opportunities. We've been seeing green shoots. Like that, in public sector, to be honest, there are lots of other opportunities across our range of products, geospatial being only one such. In the GovTech space, if you look at it in India, probably we have the right to win good quality business across our range of products and solutions, which we have kind of alluded to in detail in the presentation. These are at least two of the areas that I'm focused on personally, besides supporting the needs of the company, all the leaders in the company, wherever I can contribute. Sure. Thanks. That's helpful. Second, just wanted to understand that, did this happen in the 2H of last year? If that is the case, then 2H of FY 2027, could it be much better this year given that we have a weaker base over there? Anmol, it was not and it is not a reduction in the contract. Some of the vehicles probably The OEM has decided not to have the entire technology, not just ours, but the technology all related to that, not to put into the vehicle at last year. That may continue this year, but the two things are to be noted. One is, the worst-case scenario could be that the contract period might get extended, or they might change, which we believe they are in the process of changing, where more vehicles will come with our technology. Right, sir. Sir, just wanted to understand when did it start in last year, because that will give us an idea to look at our year-on-year growth for the next couple of quarters. It got time-shifted. As Mr. Verma explained, this is time-shifted, and second half is when the time-shifting, let's say, started happening last year. Otherwise, as we said before, automotive actually would have grown even more. Although, as you see in that AEG split, that's an important slide that we have put, where for every quarter for the last nine quarters, including this quarter, we have shown how automotive, enterprise, and government segmental revenue has kind of evolved. If you look at it, automotive has been growing. If you look at this Q1 year-on-year from INR 26 crores in Q1 FY 2025 to INR 46 crores in Q1 FY 2026 to INR 59 crores in Q1 FY 2027. Yes, yearly trend, it was INR 182 in FY 2025, became INR 190 in FY 2026, that is where if the time shifting had not, let's say, happened second half, that growth would have been more in automotive. Understood. One last thing is, in this quarter, we have stated in our presentation that there was an INR 4 crore write-off in one of the clients. Can you talk a little bit more on it, and is this amount recoverable over the next few quarters? Okay. First, let me tell you, it is a one-time write-off. Government client. of a government client. Because of that, the impact has been almost like an INR 4 crore. But the net effect of that is only INR 80 lakhs as far as the P&L is concerned. Had that not happened, our EBITDA would have been, instead of 40.2%, it would have been 43%+. From that perspective, sir, can we expect that our EBITDA over the next couple of quarters could be in this 43%-44% kind of range? Sankalp, we have been always saying that we have kept a target for us to do a 35%+ for the whole year. Quarter by quarter, you will have to see what happens every quarter. Sure, sir. Thanks. Thank you for answering my questions, I will join back in the queue. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Amar Maurya from Lucky Investment. Please proceed with your question. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, on the standalone business, if I see the Map-led business, Map-led business had actually grown 6% only even in this quarter. This is the hardware part of the business which has shown a growth in the overall growth in a standalone piece. Secondly, if I see the subsidiary's revenue has again came down. What has happened to the growth? Why the growth is not coming into the core business? I mean, Amar, you have to look at the consol. The standalone will not give you the right picture because as we've explained before, some of the government business or the IoT business, the business is one in MapmyIndia, because MapmyIndia has credentials, then it gets subcontracted for government to the government subsidiary, and for IoT, the execution happens from the IoT subsidiary. There is not much value in kind of analyzing standalone and consolidated. I mean, standalone. You should look at the consolidated, then you can look at independently, let's say, the subsidiary, but those are private listed. At the consol level, what you see is Map-led and IoT-led, which is showing this different dynamics. Map-led went from INR 98.2 crore to INR 98.7, and IoT-led went from INR 23.4 to INR 41. In that Map-led, as we kind of talked about, that for government specifically, I can say, government is a slow starter in the years. Q1 is generally the weakest in government. You can see the last nine quarters kind of trend. I hope that kind of gives you some sense of what's going on. If you look at automotive, it's gone from INR 45.7 to INR 58.8 crore, which is a 29% jump. Enterprise has grown from INR 60.6 to INR 64 crore, which is a 6% jump. Okay. Secondly, sir, now in terms of the growth, how we should see the growth going forward? If I see the Q4, there were few backlogs which we talked about on the government side, which were likely to be pushed in this year as a whole. Okay. How we should look overall growth in this quarter on a consol basis? Amar, what we had disclosed at end of Q4 or FY 2026 was an open order book of INR 1,750 crore, which had grown, I think, from INR 1,500 crore the previous year end. That gives us strong kind of visibility into previous to INR 1,500 crore, it was about INR 1,350 crore was the open order book. That's grown healthily, and that's what gives us the visibility into future growth. We can't obviously comment quarter-on-quarter what is going to happen. You can keep seeing the performance every quarter. Okay. This quarter has been good quarter. We have a pretty solid open order book. Teams are hard at work, and we are confident about what we're going to do in the time to come. Basically, you are saying on a full year basis I mean, this open order book will populate into the revenue, and the growth should be visible. Sir, frankly speaking, the growth we are expecting, a company like us, should be a much higher growth and specifically on a core business basis, the growth should be there, right? I mean, the map-led growth if you see in this quarter is basically very, very flat kind of a growth. It is largely the IoT which is basically growing, and that is the reason the profitability has also got impacted, because obviously the IoT business will not have the similar kind of profitability, correct? I will suggest that if you understand the overall MapmyIndia business- Sure It is map-led, IoT-led. It is automotive, corporate, enterprise, and government. Within automotive, two-wheelers, four-wheelers, commercial vehicles, like that. In enterprise, again, you have all kinds of industries, whether it is BFSI, quick commerce, e-commerce, or you name it. Okay? In the government also, it is so many different verticals. If each of them, if you start trying to look at why didn't two-wheeler grow or why didn't quick commerce grow, it will not give you a true picture. What you have to really look at is, one, or understand that, one, we are so well-diversified that our risk gets minimized. Imagine even one contract that got delayed or let's say the one Anmol was talking about; it didn't impact us adversely to that extent because we were still diversified within our overall business. I suggest two couple of things. One is look at the annual scenario, number one. Second is look at the diversification that we have, because the concentration also you people look at very closely that how much is- Sure the concentration. Even that is well diversified. This removes the risk of a company's growth, a company's profitability and all that. Sure, sir. Sure. Sure, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please proceed with your question. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the order book. Obviously, we have a healthy order book that provides us the visibility. Within that, if you can provide the mix of the order book, how much of that would be automotive, enterprise, and government? That would be helpful to understand which segment will drive the growth. Within the enterprise, which is the focus vertical for us, if you can update on the recent deal wins that we had, especially with the large e-commerce player, where we are in terms of the traction there and the scaling that deal. Rohan will tell you more, I am sure you are from Mumbai, correct? Yes. If you see what Amazon now is doing. I don't know if you have used Amazon now for quick commerce or not. Yeah. Mapmy is powering it, correct? Okay. You can see our logo also at some places. Point I'm trying to make is, within the industry also certain activities get impacted by some of the technologies that we bring in. Just thinking that quick commerce will only grow or that BFSI will only grow, it doesn't give us any direct picture or direct clue. What we look at is what the technology products platform we have built or we are continuously building now with AI, the delivery system is becoming much, much better and useful for the customers. It's, again, a combination of all of that is what leads us to the entire growth story. Rohan, you can add something. We disclose currently, Amit, the order book split by fixed pricing and volume-based. That end of last year, meaning three months ago, we would have given that split to give a sense of what is fixed visibility versus what is volume-based. There's a track record in terms of order book to revenue conversion. Obviously, internally, what we do is order book is at an individual order level, and there's a billing that happens against that order. For competitive reasons, at least so far, we are not disclosing that. Obviously this is how we track the visibility of the business at a market segment level, AEG, also sub-vertical as well as customer-wise. Even before that, we have the whole funnel of customers that we are engaged with. At all metrics across the AEG, all three are looking good. Within AEG, the sub verticals, different ones are growing at different rates. That is what the effort of the team is, to maximize the order bookings, and then from there, the execution or the billing enhance the revenue. We disclose it right now, the order book as volume and fix, and we do this once a year. Okay. My second question is, on the write-off that we have taken in this quarter, just a connection to that in terms of the government business that we have. If you can tell us what part of your receivables would be from the government contracts and in terms of the incremental business that we're getting from the government contracts, is there any further risk of any kind of write-off that we are seeing or any collection delay that we see in the government contracts versus the others? In terms of our three-year strategy, how we want to approach the government contracts? Yeah. Sorry, just to kind of complete the answer to the second part of your last question, which is kind of wins across enterprise. We've talked about this mobility and logistics wins, the BFSI wins, and the manufacturing and telecom wins, as well as some renewable energy. They are wins across the sub-segments. Sorry, I'm just kind of concluding on that previous question. When it comes to government, yeah, this was a one-time write-off for a very specific customer that we had to take. In general, yes, we are carefully tracking the government receivables. It is a longer cycle on government than on the automotive and enterprise. As government has grown, it has kind of reflected in the receivables that the company has. I would still say that our receivables are far better than peer companies when it comes to government. Yes, we also have to be careful, and I think that's some of the things that we are looking at very carefully, continuing to look carefully, and we do course corrections as part of that, and this write-off was kind of as part of that only. The reason we did the write-off was when we were 100% sure that we'll never be able to get that revenue. We decided that it's better to do the write-off than just keep it in our receivables. In terms of the overall receivables that we have, what part would be from government contracts as of the end of this quarter? The receivables we must have shared in the FY 2026 end quarter. A balance sheet is there on the investor. I don't have it just off the top of my head, so I don't remember. There in Q1. Q1, we've not given the balance sheet. Just like a quarter ago, we had given it. Right. Yes, of course, the majority of the receivable will be from government. If the total was, I'm trying to remember, it was INR 120 crore, INR 130 crore was the receivable total. INR 176 crore was the total at the end of FY 2026. Majority of that was from the government. Not like large majority. I can't give the exact number. It was a majority, but not like a large majority. Okay. Okay, Rohan. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please proceed with your question. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question, and congrats on a good set of numbers. I have a few of them, but just before the questions. Mr. Verma, you just clarified the impact due to this receivable write-off is only INR 80 lakhs on the P&L, right? The press release presentation which I read, it says EBITDA margin was impacted by 4% due to this INR 4 crore one-time write-off. I just wanted to reconcile, because if I take 4%, it comes to the right number, but there is some disconnect, right? If you can clarify that first. Okay. Let me make you understand in a simple way. Approximately INR 4 crores was the one where our receivable existed. That INR 4 crore of receivable, and back to back, there was a payment for INR 3.2 crore. Okay. Now I don't have to make that payment of INR 3.2 crore, and I'm not going to get the INR 4 crore. The accounting treatment of that has been- Net INR 80 lakhs is net INR 80 lakhs. Okay. In your P&L, the charge-off is only INR 80 lakhs. That means your EBITDA margin, which you have written in the presentation that it is impacted by 4%, is actually much lower. It's about 1.5%. EBITDA margin is impacted, but EBITDA margin INR 80 lakhs is impacted. EBITDA margin is impacted more, 4%. That's what he's trying to understand, that how EBITDA margin is impacted 4%. That write-off that happened has gone into the Other expense and That the payback, what we don't have to make the payment has gone as an other income. Understood. Your net impact is 80, but actually the reported EBITDA is impacted by 4%, but it's coming in other income that is below the EBITDA. That's what you're saying. Right. You got it now. That's why. Okay. Understood. Very clear. Understood. Second, just actually now, two things. One is, can you share some update on your international regions, which you had forwarded some time back? How is it going? How is it progressing? That is one. Second, also if you can help us understand the seasonality of the services part of the IoT business, right? My understanding or at least the way we look at it, we thought it's much recurring business and over a period of time, but there seems to be some seasonality there, too. If you can just help us understand that better also. Sure. Let me answer the second one first. It's easy. It's something that we've explained before, which is, see, any immediate growth that you see in IoT, it is always hardware first, right? Right. You see that reflected in our IoT numbers right now when we did the IoT LED, where we kind of talked about how IoT LED has grown significantly, I think from some INR 23-INR 38. It's somewhere INR 23 crores-INR 41 crores. INR 41 crores. Yeah. Right? You're seeing that reflected in the hardware, which is INR seven crores-INR 23 crores. No, sorry. One more question. No, let me explain. Sorry. Yeah. This increase will lead to SaaS revenue in the time to come. That has always been the case. Okay. Actually, I'm just trying to understand the quarterly seasonality. Okay. I just want to understand. It's not a quarterly seasonality, Gautam. See, our EBITDA on IoT or our services revenue on IoT basically start subsequent to the hardware revenue, right? For example, we talked about at the end of Q4 that two very large IoT accounts amongst other IoT wins came from the auto and enterprise business and the government business, right? Now necessarily what that means is that hardware will grow first, which will be lower margin, and then the SaaS will kick in. There's a previous SaaS revenue that is coming, and then there'll be a new SaaS revenue that will come. Saying that, is there a seasonality? When growth starts, there'll be lower margin and then the margin will kick in later. It's not a quarterly seasonality in a growing business. It's just a kind of, S-curve is not the right way to say it, but I hope you understand. Sorry to interrupt. Maybe let me just put my question better. First of all, I'm not at all talking about margin, so let's not. Just the revenue part. Like you said, right? When it moves from hardware to services over time, which you get, it is a cumulative, right? Every quarter you keep on adding hardware, the revenue of the services will keep on flowing later, in the coming quarter. Logically, the services revenue is a buildup quarter by quarter, which means the old revenue plus the new revenue will keep on stacking up, right? I am just trying to understand if you think about it that way. Going from INR 37 crore in Q2 FY 2026 to INR 27 crore in Q3 to INR 24 crore in Q4 and to INR 18 crore in Q1 of the services part of the IoT revenue. That is the only seasonality I was trying to understand. Yeah. Okay, Gautam. See, Q1 to Q1 is 16.3 to 18. I think what is getting confused is you are looking at sequential quarter, but our billing cycles for services varies. It might be yearly also, it might be two yearly also, or it might be monthly, or it might be quarterly, or it might be six monthly. Q4 historically, if you have seen the IoT-led is a large number. Comparing Q4 to Q1 will not give you the picture. Actually, okay, fine. I will just take it offline. Just if I may, the last one. Yeah, the international business. Yeah. -tell you. International business, yeah, things are going fine. I don't know in our P&L if we've shown the share of loss of JV. Have we shown it in the P&L? Yeah. You'll see that that is reduced, I'm guessing. Have we shown it in the financials? Yep. It has reduced. What that means is, like we said, we are continuously kind of monitoring what's happening in the JV. That's part of our international business for Southeast Asia. Like that we are making other smaller, let's say, investments in some other geographies, which we have talked about, like Middle East or some other areas. In those areas, one of the things that we're doing is trying to sell a full stack of solutions, Map-led and IoT-led. It's still developing. We have to be patient, especially in Southeast Asia. It is interesting, exciting market from a medium-term point of view. We are continuously doing some course correction or the other so that we ultimately kind of win the international business also in a good way. In the current revenue, there might not be a material contribution directly into our P&L on the revenue side from international. No, it's not. That's fair. Loss or profit. Not material. Okay. Understood. Thanks a lot. All the best. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Crisp PMS. Please proceed with your question. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, in automotive segment, I just wanted to understand how is your mix in terms of the two-wheelers, passenger vehicle, and CV in terms of the revenue? It's all shown in the automotive. We have explained it. We have also given, if you see the highlights, we've talked about in automotive, the wins that we've had across a leading two-wheeler OEM. Even an export maps program we have won for the existing passenger vehicle OEM customer for international. Some of the deployments that have gone live is like Tata Sierra EV for the EV trip planning or new vehicle launches have happened across two-wheelers like Suzuki, Vespa Ultraviolette, Ampere, and some IoT deployments which have happened in VinFast and some other OEMs across line fit and aftermarket. In general, we are building up our business in a gradual way across this AI-powered cockpit in vehicle intelligence, SDV, and EV charging network. I think it's on the right track, and it's looking good at a total level of autos. I think that your revenue, more than 75% will most probably come from this passenger vehicle segment. Is it right, sir? We don't break out sub-vertical levels, Abhishek. How is the revenue per vehicle in terms of the two-wheelers, passenger vehicles, CVs? How much the increase you are expecting this coming quarter, sir? This is all bespoke. Price is a function of product in use case and customers, and it's all negotiated bespoke, so I can't speak to individual prices. It's all competitive information. Got it, sir. How is the share of business in the large passenger vehicles OEM like in Maruti, Hyundai, and others, Mahindra and Mahindra? Yeah. We are the provider there. We are the supplier there. How much is our share of business in them? We are the supplier there. We have all the shares in these companies, Maruti, Hyundai, Mahindra. Okay, got it. Sir, just wanted to understand what kind of the growth you are targeting in this automotive segment in this year for FY 2027, sir? It's looking good. I'm not going to talk about quantitative target, but the objective is to keep winning more orders and to execute on the orders and to, as I said before, we have multiple products platforms, APIs, and solutions for every vertical including automotive and its sub-verticals. Its sub-verticals. We are continuously adding. If you look at the history of our automotive highlights, we've been sharing it for five years. You'll start seeing the expansion of our product range across OEMs. As that increases, the revenue will also increase there. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Pranaya Jain from Banyan Tree Advisors Private Limited. Please proceed with your question. Hello, sir. Can you hear me? Yeah. Hello. Yes. Please proceed with your question. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. Number one is that I want to understand how a typical contract with an automotive client and an enterprise client look like. If you can spend some time on what is the typical tenure, how is the pricing structured at inception, what are the provisions for, say, a price escalation or scope expansion over the life of the contract, that would be great. That is my first question. Yeah. In the slides in the investor presentation, we've gone into a fair amount of detail to explain the business description. We've talked about products, we've talked about industries. We've also talked about the way that we deliver our various products, platforms, APIs, and solutions. There we have talked about the revenue model. So I'll point you to that, where we talk about product licensing and subscriptions, which is that MaaS, maps as a service, software as a service, platform as a service. Then we do device sales and device as a service, where we provide it either in a CapEx mode where the customer buys the device or the customer is leasing the device along with the SaaS that he's paying us. Finally, we also have the option of, or in some cases, providing the delivery of the solutions, services, and systems integration. You can think that we are both an OEM as well as a, in some cases, we are able to do FDE/systems integration type of work, forward deployed engineering and systems integration. Pricing model is either one of per vehicle or per API transaction or per user or per solution, whatever is applicable for that particular customer and product, and it is for certain time periods. We have explained that. I think it will be good if you go through that. It will help you understand. Yeah. I have gone through that. I also wanted to understand, typically, what is the tenure of the contract, like, say, if company- There is no typical, it varies. For some customer it could be five years, some customer it could be one year. There is no typical. It is all bespoke. The model is what we explained that, but it is a portfolio of deals. Right. Understood. Second question is on, say, wallet share expansion. Within the same customer, how do you grow your sales? Yeah. That is what we explained, that for every customer, okay, we have multiple use cases for their variety of needs based on our multiple products, platforms, APIs, and solutions. Actually, that is what makes us interesting and differentiated to the customer also. Unlike any other company, there are multiple products we can offer, and also, we can do solutions, especially in our segments of this Map-led and IoT-led, which we have detailed out of what do we mean in Map-led, what do we mean in IoT-led. It's all deep tech. It's all digital transformation driven. It is all sunrise sectors, which have been adopted well in the past and some which are getting adopted now and in the future. In every customer there are opportunities for wallet expansion, and that is what the cadence is for our teams in existing customers. We also replicate what we have done for that customer to other players in that industry, and that's how the business, the order book and then the billing revenue grows. Understood. Got it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Jainam Doshi from Crisp PMS. Please proceed with your question. Yeah. Just wanted to confirm, the reason for lower gross margins, is it primarily due to the change in the product mix, like higher growth of IoT hardware sales is leading to such blended margins, or how is it? If you can give a color of that. You're talking about lower margin means lower EBITDA margin. Like gross margin. Yeah, that is also okay. We can talk about EBITDA also. It will trickle. We have not talked about gross margin. We have given you the idea of EBITDA margin. Correct? Right. The mix is different. You are right. The mix for this particular quarter was different. That is what we've mentioned, I think, somewhere. You can see that reflected in that hardware mix versus services mix. Understood. Sir, how are we evaluating the digital twin cities opportunities which is unfolding? Are we looking at such opportunities aggressively? With respect to the NAKSHA scheme being launched by Maharashtra government, will we play a role there? Just to understand on the government side for it. We are pretty well-positioned in digital twin from a capability point of view. I think more we are platform company there with not just geospatial, but IoT and process twin. We are, of course, looking at all of these carefully. We are careful in terms of what we pick, as somebody was mentioning before, what will lead to good receivables versus bad receivables. We have seen that issue play out in the peer companies, and we want to be careful there. We are looking at that space quite aggressively, and we have strong capabilities, but we'll be calibrated in our approach. Understood. Thanks a lot. That's it from my end, yeah. Thank you, sir. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Just thank you everybody for joining, and we look forward to the year to come. Thank you, sir. On behalf of Arihant Capital Markets Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line. Thank you. Thank you.