Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Matrimony.com Q4 FY2021 earnings conference call hosted by Antique Stock Broking Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prateek Kumar from Antique Stock Broking Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, we welcome today the management of Matrimony.com, Mr. Murugavel, Chairman and Managing Director, and Mr. Sushanth Pai, Chief Financial Officer. Without wasting much time, I hand over the call to Mr. Murugavel for his opening remarks, and then we will move to Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Prateek Kumar. Good evening, everyone. I hope all of you are staying safe and healthy. When we started last year, we were going through an unprecedented crisis. Even now, as we speak, the crisis is far from over. Many of our employees and families have been affected, and we continue to support them in the best way possible. While our business was impacted in Q1 of last year. Our leadership team and all our people executed very well. We continue to enhance value to our members through continuous product innovation and execution. We're also able to minimize our impact and return to double-digit billing growth from Q2 onwards. I'm happy to inform you that we have sustained this momentum for the last three quarters in a row. Our revenue growth combined with operational efficiency helped to improve profitability by 38% in FY21. In spite of the challenging environment that we face today, we expect profit to grow at a faster pace like in FY 2021 for the current year as well. We continue to use the learnings, that we have in the current dynamic environment and hope we're able to sustain the growth momentum. Now let me come to the results. In quarter four, on a consolidated basis, we achieved INR 106.7 crore in billing, which is a 10.8% year-on-year growth. For the full year, we achieved INR 385 crore, which is a growth of 4.4%. Key highlights for the matchmaking business are as follows. In quarter four, billing was at INR 106 crore, a growth of 6.3% quarter-over-quarter and 12% year-on-year. Revenue at INR 100.7 crore, a growth of 4.6% quarter-over-quarter and 8.6% year-on-year. This is the first time we crossed INR. 100 crore both in billing as well as in revenue in the matchmaking business. For the full year, we have achieved INR 383.2 crore, a growth of 7.4%. The revenue at INR 375.7 crore, a growth of 4.2%. When we compare to quarter one last year, the revenue was impacted. In spite of that, we were able to bounce back and move towards good double-digit growth. We added 2.3 lakh paid subscription during the quarter, which is a growth of 23.9% year-on-year. 8.4 lakh paid subscriptions were added during the year, which is a growth of 18.9%. We continue to see good growth in volume and billing growth in the key competitive market, both north and western regions. ATV for the matchmaking business increased 6.4% quarter-over-quarter, but declined by 9.6% year-on-year. For the full year, ATV declined 9.7%, which is in line with the strategy to drive more paid transactions. We continue to track the impact we create for our customers. We are happy to state that we have created about 33,000 success stories in quarter four, taking the total of about 100,000 success stories in FY21. Other highlights for the quarter are as follows. We launched bhojpurimatrimony.com, an exclusive matrimony site for the Bhojpuri community. We launched matrimony.com, a niche matrimony service for the graduates from premier institute. We also create a new brand identity, weddingbazaar.com. One of India's largest wedding services marketplace from the earlier avatar of matrimonybazaar.com. The matrimony has a strong association in matchmaking business, we thought WeddingBazaar augurs well for this category. Coming to marriage services business, revenue was INR 0.5 crore. It's a flat revenue as compared to the previous quarter. Loss in that quarter was at INR 1.9 crore, similar to the previous quarter. Through operational efficiency, we have brought down the losses in FY21 to INR 9.6 crore as compared to INR 17 crore loss in FY20. On the billing and revenue outlook for quarter one. While the uncertainty continue exist, and we need to see how it's going to pan out, we expect the billing and revenue to show a good double-digit growth on a year-on-year basis. However, on a quarter-over-quarter basis, it is expected to show a slight decline due to the current situation. Wedding services will be at the similar levels of Q4. The board of directors at its meeting held on May 11th, 2021, have recommended a full final dividend of 70%, which is INR 3.5 per equity share of par value of INR. five each, subject to the approval of the shareholder. Before I conclude, I'd like to thank all our customers, employees, investors, partners for the continuous support. Our resilient business model will continue to drive growth that is purpose-led. Let me now pass on to Sushanth to comment on the key profit highlights. Sushanth, over to you. Thanks, Murugavel. Just want to be sure I'm audible clearly. Yes, Sushanth, audible to me. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yes, please continue. Thanks, Murugavel. Our EBITDA margin for the matchmaking business in Q4 is at 23.4% as compared to 23.6% in quarter three and 21.9% a year ago. For the full year, EBITDA margins for the matchmaking business was at 23.9% as compared to 23.4% in FY20. Marketing expenses are at INR 38.8 crores as compared to INR 37.6 crores in quarter three. Marketing expenses for the full year was at INR 137 crores as compared to INR 102 crores in FY20. If you exclude marketing expenses, our margins in matchmaking are at 60% in FY21 as compared to 53% in FY20 due to increased revenue and operational efficiencies. On a consolidated basis, our EBITDA margins in quarter four are at 17.7% compared to 19.1% in quarter three and 14.4% a year ago. For the full year, our EBITDA is at INR 71 crores, which is at 18.6% on revenue, as compared to INR. 66 crores, which was at 15% on revenue in FY 2020, indicating a growth of 26%. Tax rate is at 25.2% for the quarter and 23.8% for the full year. PAT, excluding the MatchAstro business, stood at INR 10.1 crore for the quarter, a decrease of 8.8% quarter-on-quarter and increase of 47.9% year-on-year. Share of profit from MatchAstro is INR 0.4 lakhs for the quarter. PAT for the full year, excluding MatchAstro, is at INR 41.3 crores, which is a 10.9% on total income as compared to INR 29.6 crores, which is a 7.9% on total income in FY 2020, which is a good growth of 40%. Our free cash generation for the year has been very robust at INR 60 crores, and our cash balance is at INR 285 crores currently. On the outlook for Q1 margins, based on what Murugavel had mentioned on the billing and revenue outlook, we expect EBITDA margin and PAT to increase in quarter 1. I would like to end with a customary safe harbor statement. Certain statements during this call could be forward-looking statements on our business. These involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from such forward-looking statements. We do not undertake to update any such forward-looking statements that may be made from time to time by or on behalf of the company, unless it is required by law. Over to Prateek for Q&A. Yeah, we can move to Q&A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to rejoin the question queue. The first question is from the line of Vivekanand Subbaraman from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I have two questions. One is on the billing growth and translation into revenue growth. We have seen that in the last three quarters, billing has consistently grown at double-digit% year-on-year. This quarter, we saw the revenue growth being slightly less, around 8%. If you could help us understand the factors responsible for the divergence between billing growth and revenue growth, maybe long duration packages or maybe some other factor, that would be great. Second question is on the EBITDA in the matchmaking business, excluding marketing. That number has increased meaningfully year-on-year. We have seen that top out at around 62%. It was steadily growing till last quarter. We saw that it did not increase in the current quarter. It seems that some of your costs, like employee costs and other expenses, have started moving up again. If you could help us understand that a bit more in detail, that would be great. Thank you. Thank you, Vivekanand. On the billing to GAAP revenue, look at the billing was INR 106 crore, and in terms of revenue it was INR 100 crore. What are the reason? Was there any change in the duration or packages? By and large, it was not much. It has been the same pattern. It has to do with the revenue started picking up on Q4 and February and in the month of March, actually. January also was good, and February was one of the best two months for us. That obviously did not translate into a GAAP revenue in the same quarter. Primarily, it has to do with the billing happened in the month of February into March. Well, January also was becoming good, but January we have a lot of holidays and other things, actually. Normally for us, the revenue picks up in the month of February. That was the reason on the difference between the GAAP revenue as well as on the billing. Almost you see close to INR 5.5 crore difference between the billing and the GAAP revenue. It has nothing to do with any change in the underlying mix of packages or other things. In terms of the second question that EBITDA 60%, if you add the INR 5 crore of the INR 105 crore of GAAP revenue, the EBITDA gross margin would have been much better. We do expect definitely the gross margin continue to improve from 60% moving further. Because the revenue progresses while the employee cost is going to come from Q1 onwards, but other costs are going to be fairly on the flat level. We don't see that a reason for EBITDA margin to stay at 60%. In fact, this business has definitely the operating leverage as the revenue grows. We definitely see that EBITDA margin excluding marketing is Gross margin moving beyond going above 60%. Vivek, just like to add, this is Sushanth. Is that on the billing to GAAP, one more factor is like Murugavel said, which month of the quarter you get a higher billing. Therefore then it translates accordingly into the subsequent quarter. There's always a timing gap. If the first month of the quarter has a higher billing, then it translates into higher GAAP within the quarter because majority of our billing is in the three-month category. It comes into the middle of the second month of the quarter, it translates into the next quarter. There's a timing difference always depending on which month you get a higher billing. If you also see, the good thing is the deferred revenue has also moved up from about INR 69 crores. It has become above INR 75 crores, slightly higher than what we usually get. Anyway, which means it will come into the subsequent quarters. That is one point. The second thing on the EBITDA in this quarter, it's slightly reduced because also in March, because of the situation, maybe we fell slightly short in terms of our own billing, in terms of the situation. The second reason is that some expenses like the CSR came in one quarter itself, that is one. The second reason is that we also established certain small offices in India, and that added to our infrastructure cost as well. Therefore, there was a slight decline from quarter 3 to quarter 4, from about 63 to 62. I think it will be in a range-bound thing as we go along. Thanks, Sushanth. Appreciate. Even the quarter four, it was 62, it will only move up year-on-year on the C progress. Right. That's great. One small follow-up. Would it be possible to quantify the CSR expenses which were a bit lumpy during the current quarter? Yeah, it's about INR 0.5 crores, INR 50 lakh. Okay. Thank you. I have more, but I'll follow up later. Sure. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Patel from Adinath Shares. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes. Am I audible? Yes. Sir, I have a few broad questions. In earlier calls, you mentioned that we are planning to increase our market share where our competitor is having good presence. What are the key developments in terms of gaining some sort of traction in those area where we currently have minuscule or even a very limited presence in south market? If you can share some light, like in last two, three years. I know last one year was very pathetic. Still, if any sort of improvement we've witnessed in terms of traction, if you can share on that. In the northern market? Sorry, I just kind of lost it. Not our markets. In areas where our competitor is having strong foot. Okay. Yeah, understood. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Other than the northern market, we are a leader across India. Be it, obviously we have very strong leadership in South and also we have good leadership in East. Also, we have a strong leader in the West as well. Except North India, we are one of the leaders. That's a market where it's a long-term strategy, and we continue to take steps to improve our markets in the northern market. We recently launched a few offerings. Apart from we continue to look at ways to increase our commerce in the market. We're looking on pricing strategy plus other things as well. Again, some of things, what steps what we have taken is that we also launched two new offerings. Actually three, actually. We launched rajasthanimatrimony.com. We launched biharimatrimony.com. In the current quarter, we launched bhojpurimatrimony.com. We are looking at market-specific approach is one of the strategies. Basically, we are looking at combination of product pricing and some offerings. We continue to make progress. Again, North is a highly competitive market. It's not something like we'll be able to make strong inroads in a very short span of time. It's a long-term strategy. The good thing that North is the only market where we are not a strong leader. All other markets, our leadership is strong and they continue to improve. Okay. Sir, my second question is on other than matchmaking segment, which we have, it's a very minimal contribution to our total turnover. What are the plans going forward for that segment of match services? Yeah. We have today two offerings. One is mandap.com and the other one is the weddingbazaar.com. In the recent quarter, we changed the name from WeddingBazaar to weddingbazaar.com as I said. Both are marketplace model. Compared to the earlier business model, we had a full service model. We believe that the marketplace model in the long run can be highly lucrative. It's all subscription-based business model. Subscription business model, we need to have that listing. We also need to have the traffic and also need to deliver value to our partners. Continue to progress on these areas and both the business has a good number of listings. We continue to make product improvements. We continue to see the people subscriptions in a subscription-based package. Compared to the way we were selling earlier, we moved to a standardized offering. That way, it's all one-year packages, three months, six months packages. As the marketplace model, the listings improve, the value improves. We see that the revenue will get better, then more number of people sign up. We believe we are pointing the right direction, and because if not for COVID, probably would have done better. Let's hope that this year, the wedding services will probably gain some traction. We're also looking at what are the other things we can do to make both offerings there, strong offerings in this space. Like any internal turnover target you set for this segment? No, the opportunity is there. We have to see whether, when can we reach INR 100 crore business on wedding services. Can be in three years, can be in five years. That we definitely have internal goals to make it as a meaningful revenue contribution for our overall business. Okay. Sir, my third and final question. Due to pandemic and lockdown and the distance protocol and all, the psychological shift has been witnessed in across all the category of services from consumer side. In marriage related also, lot of digital weddings happening in many states, in many area and locality. Will this psychological shift, because ultimately in post-COVID world, so many changes we will going to see in many services. Do you think that the marriage service segment will be affected negatively because of the psychological shift which has happened due to pandemic? Today when the government announced that only so many people can attend the weddings and the complete lockdown, probably the entire spending on this category comes down. However, we think that it's going to be temporary, probably in a couple of months, because India has already vaccinated 15% of population. Our estimate is probably the next 4 months or so. By October, probably 30%-40% of the population possibly can get vaccinated. After that, probably gradually things come back to the sort of okay, to reasonable levels. While in short term, probably next 3 or 4 months, there can be some impact. We also expect whether lockdown will continue beyond May, which we doubt. Probably there will be restriction on number of people can attend the wedding, but I think gradually things will get better. It'll be, if at all, we expect, in this current situation, I think it'll be next four months or so. That's our estimate. We may be wrong also. We have to wait and see. Unlike in the past, where we didn't have the clue on when the vaccination going to come, how long this is going to last. At least now we have the vaccine in place. It is a question of how soon we can get a good number of Indian population getting vaccinated. 60% is what we can reach herd immunity, but I don't know when. It is probably end of the year or so. Matchmaking, the impact is largely because of lockdown, because retail outlets were shut down, plus some of our employees are impacted, some of the customers are impacted. Still we are doing fairly well. Okay, sir. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Reminder to the participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to rejoin the question queue. The next question is from the line of Hardik Sangani from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you. Hey, Sushanth Pai and Murugavel, hope you are keeping safe and doing well. Just regarding those two questions. The first one is, isn't in last year's Q1, anyway, that was a weak quarter due to the onset of COVID-19 pandemic. Double digit. On QOQ basis, shouldn't we have a mid-single digit growth or something like that? This year at least, it can be better than what we had done. Is it due to this again, the second wave, we have the tempered down or on a conservative side, we are guiding towards the building growth. Secondly, in terms of marketing expense, so do we see this year also, should we continue with the exit rate of Q4 what we had in this year? It will increase or decline meaningfully because there will be no particular events. Related to the advertising trend, have we been doing any change in our ad spend mix since, for example, offering differential discount to clients more, or is it more digital marketing or general marketing expenses, which you have been doing earlier? I have more questions that I will come in the follow-up. Thanks, Hardik. We are doing fine. Hope you and your family are doing well. In terms of growth for quarter one, the guideline was quarter-over-quarter, maybe 3% less in billing compared to Q4. If you look at year-on-year, obviously it will be probably around 20% or so, because obviously Q1 we are impacted. That way the growth is not only kind of 10%, 11%, will be definitely much higher growth because of the impact we had in Q1. That's on the growth side for the matchmaking. In terms of marketing, we believe that probably around a similar level as possibly in the Q4. In terms of spend, most of our spend is Again, it's not our discount is being accounted as marketing. Further marketing is the actual marketing spend, which include both TV and digital. Most of the spend is on TV, and by and large it remain in the similar level. We don't see any change in the mix. If at all, little minor change in the mix of advertisement. Either similar level or maybe slightly less, depends on how the whole situation evolves now. Just like to add, Hardik, is that last year the situation was slightly different from what we are seeing now. The whole concept of the virus, the lockdown, everything was new. People were grappling with various things because the whole situation was new. Because of that, the businesses took some time to build that BCP and all of those things. There, the people were not so impacted because the cases were just coming in and people were learning about the virus. It's a very different situation. The business impact there was more to do with the businesses coming to track and dealing with the situation. Over the year, we have learnings. We've established new monitoring mechanisms to deal with all of this. Therefore, some of these learnings are helping us in this second wave. The second wave is slightly different. I think we've sort of learned to live with the lockdowns a bit, in terms of the BCP measures and all of that. Here, I think more people are getting impacted. That's the difference. Because not only customers, I think even our own people, that is creating a little bit of a different situation. The business model is resilient, and therefore taking care of some of the learnings that we've had in terms of how to minimize the impact. I think that's the way to see it, and that's why we are factoring a slight decline from the Q4 levels as we go into Q1. Thanks, Sushanth. Appreciate that. Sushanth said when our employees are getting impacted, so obviously we lose our productivity and because it takes time. It's not one or two days. When two weeks of productivity gets impacted, sometimes little longer also. It's not one or two people. As I said, more than 100 of our employees are infected with COVID. These are the issues, and the lockdown, retail outlets are closed. It's more as to the challenges, what we face, what's causing that bit of slowdown. Otherwise, would have been better actually. Sure. That helps. I'll come back in the follow-up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you. The next question is from the line of Hitesh Sharma from White Sky. Please go ahead. Hello? Yes, Hitesh. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to know what is your market share compared to Shaadi.com? Our estimate is that while at the Pan-India level, 60%. We think that Shaadi is around the 30% level. Again, it's our estimate. We don't have the actual revenue data and all those things. That's our estimate. Any other activity you are planning to start because you have a platform for e-matchmaking. Any other matchmaking services you are looking for? We continue to explore opportunity in the matchmaking space. We have recent launch apart from the recent launch that is IIM, IIT. We also launched Doctors Matrimony plus launch of this Rajkumari and Rajkumar. We continue to explore the opportunity in matchmaking space and both in India and even outside India, which is where we think we can able to make a difference. Yeah, we continue to explore those opportunities. You're just sticking to the matchmaking only? Yeah. We are definitely sticking to matchmaking business and wedding planning business. My basic question was, because you are having already a platform, so you can use the same platform for many other similar things. Yeah. Okay. Sorry if I misunderstood. Sorry, my apologies. Yeah. While we've done it in the past. In 2008, we had all various vertical. We launched jobs, property, automobile, various vertical. Obviously, that time we didn't have the capital and other things, leadership bandwidth and everything. We see enough and more opportunity in the matchmaking business itself. Will we be getting to other verticals? No. There are other established players out there. I think rather we focus on our strength, focus on where we can able to make a difference. We're going to remain committed to the matchmaking and wedding services. We're not looking at using this platform for other verticals. Thank you. Thank you very much. Welcome. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayur Gathani from OHM Portfolio. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to check on the services business. What are we actually doing there? Why are we losing money? I thought it is an asset-light model and can you explain a little more on the subscription side as well, please? See, definitely in terms of the model, asset-light model, because the losses of we're talking about INR 2 crore, we're talking mainly on the people cost. We are talking about product team, technology team and operation team, and also the sales team in place. Mainly on the people side, actually. Most of our cost, we see that almost 70%-80% is on the people cost. Once the revenue picks up, because the subscription business model, initial days, obviously, we are offering it at less price because we have to get vendors to come on our platform, deliver value, so that as we progress, we could be able to increase that subscription amount. That's the reason. The cost mainly on the people side. As the revenue progresses, the people cost in percentage revenue will come down. Once it reaches a certain critical threshold, obviously we'll start making profit. We are investing at this point of time because some of the resources are expensive. We're talking about product and technology, and also platform leadership team. Yeah, at this point of time, it has to do with the people cost. The revenue is not still at the expected level because of last year, definitely severely impacted by COVID. I hope that this year we will gain traction on the revenue. On the subscription side, what are we doing here? I mean, vendors, let's say some hotels who have banquet halls or people who own banquet halls are subscribing to you saying that, okay, whenever there is a marriage? Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Mayur, I understood your question. The people who have subscribed to our service are the vendors who are mainly in the wedding services. We're talking about caterers, decorators, banquet halls, and makeup artists, photographers, and all the people in the wedding services business. They are the ones paying for that. For the end consumers, we don't charge any money, and we help them to connect with the right service provider. We don't have model of at this point of charging money for the end consumers. As we progress, we can look at those model ourselves. This point of time, who is paying for our wedding services are the people in the wedding services business. Okay. Thank you, sir. All the best. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kothari from AlfAccurate Advisors. Please go ahead. Thanks for providing the opportunity. Sir, my question is on your main business, how do you see the margins over next two, three years? If we continue to kind of grow at this double-digit growth, which we hope that we will be able to continue to have this kind of growth. If the marketing remains at the similar level or even it is slightly going up, I think the margin continue to improve. That is what I can say. When you say that the marketing spend, if I'm just looking at your presentation, I think slide number 21. where you have given the marketing expense, which is increased from INR 56 crores to INR 137 crores. Whereas if you look at our revenue, INR 335 crores-INR 377 crores. Of course, there is a INR 9 crores cost from the second business. Even if one adjusts for it, and one cannot do pre-marketing expense because marketing expense is the priority for such business, correct? Absolutely. Yeah. I'm saying that, how one should look at it, because your revenue growth is not in line with the marketing spend. I don't right now have your FY 2018. your matchmaking performance revenue. I don't think it would have grown two and a half times. See, the marketing spend definitely has kind of grown substantially in the last couple of years. Because due to I think, the competitive activity. If not for the competitive activity, the marketing spend wouldn't be at the current level. The marketing spend definitely as a percentage revenue has gone up. I'm talking about if the competitive intensity remains at the current level. We'll still be able to do the double-digit growth, which we think we'll be able to deliver the double-digit growth, and then still the profit margin or the EBITDA margin will improve. However, if the competitive intensity kind of reduces and all those things, we're able to reduce the marketing spend, then EBITDA margin grow at a faster rate. Definitely, if you look at it three years ago, the marketing spend for the entire year was 2020, INR 50 crore. The INR 50 crore gone up to now today INR 137 crore because of the increased company activities. Three years ago, this category, all three players put together, marketing spend was INR 100 crore. Today, all three players put together, the marketing spend has gone up to INR 400 crore. There's increased competitive activity, so we had to step up our marketing to protect our market share and also to grow our business. As a leader, we continue to grow, and again, we continue to expect that the EBITDA margin also will move up because other costs will go in line with our growth. When you say three years ago, the total industry spend was INR 100 crore, that is you're talking about FY 2018? FY 2018, yeah. What would be the industry revenue at that time? I think industry revenue would have been maybe INR 400 crore or so, I don't know. Approximately INR 500 crore. 500 crores. Right now, what would be industry revenue in your opinion? Probably, maybe around maybe INR 700 crore. I'm talking top three players, so INR 700 or INR 750 crores, yeah. The growth is over like 50% kind of growth. Yeah. Our growth would have been how much? We started growing double digits over the last three quarters. Again, sorry, I don't know the exact three-year CAGR. Yeah. Okay. It's a post- My question is, this competition intensity will keep remain high, am I right? Unless and until one player goes out from the market, correct? How do you see that? Let's assume the competition intensity increases further, then what you do? There is a limit at which we can keep spending money because there is a beyond a certain threshold, there is no point in continuing to put the money. I think the current level of marketing spend, I believe that is good enough to manage even increased competition. They're already spending much more than what is required, actually. Even if further step of marketing also, we believe the current role of marketing spend is fairly okay. Again, we may change our views as you know, depend on situation. That's my outlook at this point of time. I think we have sufficient of marketing team. Again, continue to make progress, continue to grow. I'm not in a position to comment on what will be a competitor's strategy, what they want to do. As far as we're concerned, we continue to make inroads, continue to progress and continue to drive the growth. At some point the product things may change and in terms of the company interest may come down, but even otherwise also. As long as we're able to grow the double-digit growth and able to drive the EBITDA margin, it's okay. Competitors being there and they continue to grow, add to the overall category also. What we are focusing on, what we can do in our control, continuous product innovation and execution, drive double-digit growth, drive the EBITDA margin, and it all pay off in the long run, yeah. Sure. My last question is, in terms of the organization structure perspective, have you recruited any senior people, strategic people in the management team? Any changes in the team? No, nothing. Again, always addition every year. We have a strong leadership team. Okay, no major changes? No major changes. Okay, fine. Thanks. Wish you all the best. Yeah. Just wanted to tell you that recent change has been that we have included a CMO, Arjun Bhatia. That's the recent addition to the leadership team. Thanks, Sushanth. Last year we added, yeah. Arjun Bhatia is added as CMO, yeah. What is his profile? He was a marketing head for Samsung, so he joined as CMO. Okay, fine. No problem. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Poddar from Nippon India AIF. Please go ahead. Hi. Just wanted to check, if you can slice or dice this marketing spend of INR 137 crore. How much would be, let's say, pure play marketing and how much would be, let's say, for transactions or anything like that? I'd say most of the spend, Manish, is on the TV advertisements. Probably around 70% or something like that goes on TV advertisement. The balance goes on digital, other forms of advertisement. None of this amount is let's say, really done for any convergence per se. It is just for awareness purposes. It's awareness because there are market, obviously, there's competitors advertising heavily, so we have to counter that. It's mostly on the TV. 70% or 70 plus% on TV. If you have the digital, at least say what is the conversion now. That also 30%. There also because of the competitor activity, we had to spend more because people are bidding for a keyword and sort of that pushes the price. Otherwise, even there also spending would have been less. Okay. Just one last one. Let's say, I haven't checked the numbers for the last three, four years. Let's say, you'd be giving certain discounts or let's say there will be a difference between the gross and the net in terms of revenues. Which will be used for convergence, let's say for discounts for consumers. How has that number trended over the last three, four years? Look at this year that ARPU has come down because we have that pricing strategies. We don't have standard price. There's a rack rate, according to the market, according to the customer, different price being given to the customer. Till last year, the ARPU has gone up. This year, our ARPU has come down on account of differentiated price for various customers. Let me put it the other way around. Have we taken any price increase in the last two years? No, price has been the same. If price has been static, whatever ARPU decrease we would have seen would be a function of higher discounting. Yeah. Discounts, yeah. Again, this will vary from market to market. You are right. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devang Bhatt from ICICI Direct. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to know that our strategy was to grow the paid subscribers and pricing would be more or less stable. This quarter on Q over Q basis, our paid subscribers are flat and pricing has increased. Has there been some change? See, my second question is that, given the lockdown and everything is announced, and despite doing a double-digit billing growth, we are not able to grow our revenues in double digits. Will we be able to grow a double-digit revenue growth in FY 2022? Yes. Okay, two questions. One is in terms of the ATV. ATV is a function of many things because look at your personal services and include assisted and EliteMatrimony. We saw those business sort of some of the bounce back happened in the business. That also pushed our ARPU. Second thing that while we are look at offering the right price, we continue look at where you can get better ARPU also. Discounting is, yes, wherever possible, do the discount. At the same, wherever possible, try to get a better ARPU also. For us, discounting is not the only strategy. I think we should look at what price we can get customer to subscribe for it. Again, as I said, the first point of growth in the personal service also drove the ARPU. In terms of the matchmaking side, this year, definitely look at the double-digit growth. We believe that because even Q1, the revenue side also will be a double-digit growth. Last year is because of the wedding services. Because the photograph business was there, and that was also pulling down the year-on-year growth percentage. If you look at all the wedding services, the year-on-year drop of almost like 80%. That has kind of pulled down our year-on-year growth at the enterprise level. Matchmaking and enterprise put together, I think this year we would have double-digit growth in the revenue side as well. We are expecting matchmaking services to be flat, more or less flat. No. Not matchmaking, sorry, marriage services. Yeah. Marriage service. Yeah. This matchmaking in double digit means in the high teens or mid-teens, what should we expect in that? No, we are double-digit growth. I don't want to give too much. I know we can only probably see the immediate future, and wedding services flat for this quarter. It's not that we are saying that whole year is going to be flat because currently it's under lockdown. We don't expect the situation to continue to remain as it is. We expect in next four, five months things will improve better even on wedding services. Yeah, in terms of matchmaking, how much a double-digit growth, I'm not in a position to say at this point of time. We can talk about Q1, which is in immediate vicinity. We know that the country is going through unprecedented challenge that nobody would have expected that COVID, the wave 2 will be so severe. In fact, we're all preparing for the better things, and suddenly things gone haywire. I think we want to be cautious at this point of time. Let's see how the situation develops. Probably one quarter down the line, we'll be in better position to comment on it. My question was on FY 2022. Yeah, FY 2022. On FY 2022 terms. I know first quarter might be weak. When we catch up in FY 2022, would we be able to grow? Even in the past two, three quarters, despite our billing growing double-digit, we have only done single-digit growth in matchmaking services. Actually, James, the thing about the matchmaking business, while the billing has been growing double digit because of particularly Q4, where the INR 5 crores pushed to this quarter. We definitely, Q1 also, we expect the billing and revenue growth to be possibly around 20% or so. For the year, definitely we expect both the billing and revenue side will be a double-digit growth. What is our double-digit growth? I'm not in a position to comment at this point of time, because we'll see how the Q1 ends, because the situation also changing dynamically. That's the reason I'm not in a position to comment on that. When we talk of Q1, what you can see. Q1 will be a good double-digit growth. Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ronak Vora from AUM Advisors. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. On a metrics end, so earlier, what was our customer acquisition cost, say, five years back and currently? Actually, because most of our customer acquisition are direct, where you don't spend much money. Unlike other businesses where they completely depend on digital market to acquire customer. The brands are so strong. In fact, almost like my data users have come directly into our portals or offerings. That's why the most are spent on TV advertisements. Even for digital, most are spent on brand and behind our brands, actually. It's not like other business where you have to depend on digital to acquire customers, not really. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question is from the line of Vivekanand Subbaraman from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you very much for the follow-up opportunity. Could you give us some color on the active users on your platform? Has it grown at a similar pace as the transactions, and can you also help us understand if the growth has been uniform across regions in the country or has it been faster in any one or two markets? Vivekanand Subbaraman, the profile growth has been good. We stopped publishing the actual data on profiles, so they are not public information because of competitive reason. All I can say is we had a good growth across India, not limited to any particular geography. Right. Second question is on the revenue streams. This offline versus online, and you also have certain premium offerings. Could you discuss about growth across the revenue line items? Again, we're not doing the breakup. Again, we probably would give it a last time, but we had an impact on the premium businesses during that lockdown or during the COVID situation, like Matrimony. I think it started off kind of bouncing back, so we said that's kind of getting back. That's one of the reasons Matrimony also getting better in Q4. However, once again, it got a lockdown. We continue to do well on the premium businesses. Sir, if I understand correctly, in the premium segment, your competitors are not just the other two self-serve models, right? They are with boutiques, right? Can you also help us understand the competitive landscape there? They are also in similar offerings. They are also personal service business. When it comes to EliteMatrimony, well, yeah, even Shaadi also, they have the equivalent thing. Again, we pioneered this category almost two years ago. We definitely have a good brand in EliteMatrimony and a good number of customers across India. Yeah. Shaadi also has the personal services actually. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipen Sheth from Crystal Investments. Please go ahead. Hi, and thanks for the opportunity, sir. I have a question which is more of a strategic nature. Okay. Are you slicing the data of users to see whether there are more users who are looking for their own marriage versus other people's marriage and is there something to be read there? How do you see this? Do you see it at all? Yeah. That's one of the data we see it. Where is it trending, and what do you read of it? Yeah. Majority users are the individuals only. That has been a growing trend. Today, only around 15% of profiles are created by parents. Contrary to some people think that it's largely used by parents. Definitely matchmaking, parents also do get involved because marriage happen with the involvement of parents also. In terms of the people reaching onto the platform, 70% of the users are individuals themselves. Around 15% is a profile created by parents. Balance 15% probably are talking about siblings. Yeah Creating a profile. That's why the mix has been. It's largely driven by individuals seeking a life partner, and that has been a growing trend. Your presentation has a data point from way back in 2016. I know these are rough throws rather than auditable data. It mentions that arranged marriages in India are at 80%. In 2021, has it fallen to 30% or something? No. I'm sure it hasn't, but it's just a rhetorical way of asking you. See, individuals are creating a profile does not mean that people just, okay, they kind of without the parents' involvement, they're getting married. Who is in the driver's seat today? The singles themselves are in driver's seat. They are creating a profile. They are contacting the prospects. Once they like the prospect, then obviously parents will get involved. The Indian marriage, definitely parents will get involved. Whether you can call it arranged marriage or individual marriage, it depends how people interpret. We call it a collaborative- Sir, sorry to interrupt you. I don't want you to kind of find a logical link between my two questions. All I'm saying is, in India, if 80% people were going through arranged marriages in 2016, has this started trending up or down and down drastically? That is what would worry me in terms of longer-term prospects for your business. No. That's what I'm telling. See, basically, the arranged marriage term, which is wrongly, grossly misunderstood. Yeah. Even if I'm signing up and looking for someone, I would still call that an arranged marriage. I'm okay with that definition. Yeah. That's what. What do you mean by arranged marriage? See, arranged marriage, Western point of view, their understanding arranged marriage was, okay, parents are choosing. A boy or girl would get married to the boy, and that's arranged marriage. We call it arranged marriage there. Yeah. We call it collaborative marriage. Collaborative. Every stakeholder comes together, parents and self. It doesn't matter. Even the parents create a profile. It's happening with the concerned involvement of the youngster. It doesn't matter who is on driver's seat. The majority of the people who are looking for life partner are individuals themselves. Once they shortlist the prospect. Look, I got married through bharatmatrimony.com. I create a profile. I contact my wife. I also got my parents in on the right stage. I call it a collaborative marriage. I think the marriage in the form of India has evolved from what it was 20 years ago. Today, I call it is a collaborative matchmaking or participative matchmaking. Both the stakeholders happen with the involvement and participation of both the stakeholders. Who in the initial driver seat today? Largely singles. Once they like the prospect, parents get involved. They follow the process. What are the process to be followed, visiting the other side and understanding the bride or groom, and the marriage happen with the concerned involvement of all the stakeholders. In a way, it's also called as arranged marriage one way. Arranged by individuals themselves with the involvement of parents. Thank you. Hope I'm able to kind of- Any plans of going beyond marriage in terms of verticals? Not even dating. I know that sounds less serious than marriage, but maybe there's a different brand that you can make there. You're sitting on INR 280 crores of cash. Any thoughts there? I think the dating is a completely different category. In fact, we did have a dating offering. We studied that market. Our view is that, see that the dating more like a casual relationship and the age group is different. Getting a female into our portal was a challenge. Monetization has been a challenge. People use it for different reasons. Unlike matrimony is a very clear audience, clear intention. The people culturally aligned. That way, we don't expect the dating side is going to be a large offerings or large market. It's a limited offerings and then it is for limited purpose. We don't think the dating in India a large category in our view. We don't intend to get into that category. We continue to focus on matrimony. Thank you, Mr. Sheth. May we request that you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Taha Siamwala from Piper Serica Advisors. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Can you Hello? No, please. Yeah. Hello? You're audible. Yeah. Hello. Yeah, you're audible. Please go ahead. What was the changes in ARPU for the quarter and the year? See, the ARPU change for the quarter was INR 4,667, which is a decline of 9.6% year-on-year. Compared to the previous quarter, it's up by 6.4%. For the whole year, the ARPU from INR 5,061, it dropped to INR 4,578. Okay. Thanks. That was the only question. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead. Hello. Sir, I just one thing. How should the pricing will play out in FY 2022? This year, although pricing have taken a hit, do you think it will stabilize or more downwards is possible? Pricing probably will be similar lines or on the top, quality maybe slightly get better also. As I told you, we continue look at ways to drive conversion. At the same time, look at ways to increase our ARPU ourselves wherever possible, without compromising our ability to convert those free members into paid members. Just want to understand, what gives you confidence, maybe pricing might improve from here because the way competition is shaping up, in no way it is getting down. In fact, it is getting more aggressive. Basically, as I said, we continue to execute well and continue to innovate, continue to offer various service to our customers. I think we are focused on our growth, we are focused on driving our EBITDA margin. We believe that we are on the right track. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Just a related question on marketing, sir. Like getting into FY 2022, when things are relatively tougher for every industry. How have the marketing spends sort of panned out for us, and how do you see it for industry overall? Is industry trying to save on marketing in FY 2022, or what are other avenues where industries, we are sort of looking to save for in FY 2022? No, I think we are done. FY21 was good in terms of EBITDA efficiency, and I don't expect that the whole thing going to continue beyond this quarter. I think things will come back to better levels beyond the Q1 in terms of the country. I don't expect there going to be any lockdown, that kind of situation. If at all anything happens, we look at that point in time, we will see that it was temporary, this quarter thing. If it continues, probably look at what can be done to drive EBITDA on the cost side. In terms of marketing, we believe that we'll be operating at a similar level, so level of Q4 possibly. That's our outlook we have currently. I believe that setup will be good enough. Again, it depends. Just final question from my side. There was recently, it was covered in media that Paytm and several other organizations, Indian startups are coming together to form a local Play Store. Is there any update on that? It's not that local Play Store. There is a thing that is lobbying because today Google controls the entire Play Store in the sense that because majority of Indian users are Android users. The thing is that, the Google pricing policies are forcing that the activity is going to Google, ending up billing and certain things. It's good to have some alternative or government offering some kind of the download platform so that people are not restricted by that. The Indian companies are not restricted by Google being the only platform where customer can go and download. There has been sort of some bit of lobbying or some bit of Not more the lobbying or communicate with government that it's good to have always Google having absolute control over things. Feel that sometimes we are at that sort of mercy of Google in terms of many things. It's good to have some kind of offerings or government stepping in so that they're able to maintain that neutrality or ensure that Google not abusing its monopoly to the advantage or whatever other reason. Thanks, sir. That is from my side. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thanks, Faizal. Thank you, Prateek, for hosting this call. Thank you all for joining this call. If you have any questions, you can write to us. Meanwhile, stay safe and healthy, and take care. Thank you all. Thank you all, and have a nice evening. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Antique Stock Broking Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.