Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Muthoot Finance Q4 FY 2026 earnings conference call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Sanket Chheda from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah. Hi, and very good evening to all of you. We have with us the entire management team of Muthoot Finance today to discuss their Q4 results. I'll hand the call over to Mr. George Alexander Muthoot for opening remarks. We'll follow that up with question and answer. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Sanket, and welcome to the conference call of Muthoot Finance and subsidiaries for the quarter four and the full year 2025, 2026. We just concluded our board meeting, and that is the reason the accounts, the results were uploaded maybe an hour back or an hour and a half back only. Sorry for that. Otherwise, commenting on the business, I will start with the gold loan business. We have the highest ever consolidated gold loan AUM. Consolidated gold loan AUM of Muthoot Finance and its subsidiaries at INR 165,000 crores, which is a historic growth and has a growth of INR 57,000 crores or 54% last year. The full year, our growth was INR 57,000 crores, and the AUM consolidated stands at INR 165,000 crores. Looking at the standalone business without the subsidiaries, the loan standalone gold loans stands at INR 164,000 crores, and the highest ever standalone profit after tax. Standalone profit after tax of INR 10,134 crores. It is up by 95% year-on-year. Coming to the consolidated AUM. The consolidated AUM of Muthoot Finance and all its subsidiaries stands at INR 181,916 crores as of March, which shows a growth of INR 59,000 crores or 49% last year. The consolidated profit after tax stands at INR 10,607 crores, again up by 98% year-on-year. Now, a few other highlights, I would like to add here. Muthoot Finance declared the highest dividend of 300% or INR 30 per share. This is the 14th year of consistent dividend declaration since our IPO in 2011. During the year, we opened 177 new branches by the group. We also have received multiple industry recognitions as Muthoot Finance is certified as India's most trusted financial services brand for 10th year in a row by TRA Brand Trust Report 2026. Muthoot Finance has been certified as a great place to work by Great Place to Work Institute for the fifth year in a row. Coming to the subsidiaries, there has been stable performance across the subsidiaries. In Belstar Microfinance, just as we had guided last year, we have started opening, started venturing into the gold loan business, we opened 81 gold loan branches last year to diversify the loan portfolio. The total branches, including the microfinance, stands at 1,300. Collection efficiency in the microfinance increased by 0.69% and now stands at 99.85%, which was 99.16% last year. During the year, we disbursed INR 7,500 crores as against INR 6,000 crores in the previous year. Muthoot Home Finance, the loan AUM stands at INR 3,485 crores versus INR 2,900 crores in the last year, a growth of 17%. Disbursed loan of INR 999 crores last year. Interest income increased by 36%. Profit after tax stands at INR 45 crores. GNPA stands at 2.63% and NNPA at 1.94%. Coming to Muthoot Money. Muthoot Money, which is doing vehicle finance, has been running down its vehicle finance business and has gone into the gold loan business. Gold loan, the AUM stands at INR 9,794 crores versus INR 3,900 crores last year, a growth of 151%. There has been a share capital infusion of INR 1,000 crores. Being a 100% subsidiary, it was infused by the parent, Muthoot Finance. Today, the capital base stands at INR 2,357 crores. Total income increased to INR 1,294 crores. Active customer base has shown a consistent growth from 2.74 lakh last year to 4.6 lakh this year. The credit rating has been upgraded to AA+ stable from AA stable by CRISIL for long-term borrowings. The profit after tax stood at INR 338 crore this year versus INR 12 crore last year. These are the main highlights of this year. We are happy to present, or we are glad to present a good financials for last year, and definitely thanking the stakeholders, including our customers, our lenders, regulators, and of course, our valued shareholders and also the bankers who have been funding us and certainly all the analysts also for your guidance. I think I will stop here and, maybe, wait for the clarifications in Q&A from the investors. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from Shubham Gupta from Prospera Wealth. Please go ahead. Hello? Yeah. Yes, sir. You are audible. Yes. Sir, I have two questions. First is basically what is the, like, expected guidance of, top-line revenue and the margins for the next year? The second is, like, how will the recent, like, RBI recently said not to buy gold, so how will it impact the Muthoot Finance overall, revenue going ahead in the next year? Yeah. I think, generally, we don't give a guidance on the margins and the profit. It's, when the AUM grows, there will be definitely profit growth also. Generally we wouldn't, we have not been giving the guidance of that in the previous years. Now, your second question was about the gold, not to buy, import gold. I think the Government of India has said that you should reduce the import of gold, and they have actually increased the tax also from 6%- 15%. Right. We don't finance any gold purchase, we don't finance any gold bullion, etc, it actually doesn't affect Muthoot. As we will, as we have always been saying, we finance only the household used ornaments of the public, which is what we don't take coins and bullions and bars, et c. We finance only the household ornaments, which is still intact. There is reportedly about 25,000-30,000 tons of gold with us. I think there is good scope, good prospects for this business going forward also, in spite of new gold or new import of gold being restricted. Got it, sir. Thanks. Thanks for answering the question. Thank you. The next question is from Rushabh Doshi from Nirmiti Investment Advisors LLP. Please go ahead, Mr. Rushabh. Yeah, hi. Congrats on a great set of numbers. I've noticed that you've changed the presentation this time. In your last presentation, there was a slide which used to give the average monthly disbursement and the average monthly collection for the quarter. If you could just please help me with those numbers. My second question is that I'm noting that the yields have gone up again this quarter. Are there any NPA recoveries or ARC income which we've booked in this quarter? Okay. Disbursement, it will be something similar. You know, we have not looked at the exact numbers. The second question, was there any additional income? There was an auction income of about INR 50 crores. ARC, I think it is around INR 35 crores. Totally INR 85 crores. You know, there was some increase in the pricing also in the last quarter. Okay. Could you share the disbursement number for the quarter? I think it will be almost similar, you know, to, you know, previous quarters, the trends. Around INR 18,000 crores or? I don't have the numbers exactly, so I'll not be able to share, right now. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from Abhijit Tibrewal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead, sir. Good evening, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, if you could just help us understand how is the competitive intensity in the gold finance sector trending. The reason for asking this is in the past you have explained to us so many times that whenever gold prices go up, the tonnage will come down. Something we've seen maybe this quarter as well. Having said that, we have also had other gold financing NBFCs, obviously much smaller than you, but we are still seeing tonnage growth come through for them. If you could first help us understand how are the competitive dynamics. Why I ask this again, sir, is that in the past you always said competition will come and go, but not everyone is very serious about gold financing. They do it very opportunistically. This time around, sir, maybe for the first time we are seeing a bunch of all AAA rated NBFCs who are themselves deep-pocketed can raise liabilities at finer rates than us, and at some point in time can also build a distribution muscle, which is very important in gold financing. If you could just put some of those pieces together for us, sir. Thank you. You actually asked the question and also gave the answers also. The competition is there. New and newer people are coming. Fine. I think I would repeat what I said earlier also. We are a gold company which is focused on gold loan. The new players who are coming, maybe deep pockets, maybe low, lesser cost of funds. They are not focused gold loan players. Focused gold loan players and also gold loan players have a difference which people will realize after some time only because this is a very operationally challenging, operationally intensive business, and I am sure people will realize that going forward. Competition will come. After some time, again, I am repeating, some of them will lose interest. Some of them who stay focused will definitely be able to do better. They are all opportunistic people. We don't find anybody taking away our business also because in spite of all this, we have been growing reasonably well, if not better than the previous years. We see continuous growth in this, in this sector, and we see better things to happen. If you look at our slide number 19, slide number 19, you will see when you compare, we have a second company which has started gold loan business maybe 1.5 years back, Muthoot Money, the row Number 2. See, Muthoot Money, the tonnage has increased considerably. Because the tonnage, which was seven, has gone up to 12. That will be the same for any new player. You consider this also as a new player. The new player you compare with Muthoot Money. Muthoot Money, the tonnage has increased from 7 to 11. Whereas in Muthoot Finance, we are an established player. We are having old legacy accounts with us. There the tonnage will be definitely in proportion to the new loans. The churn in the loans. The churn in the loan is actually every four months it is churned. When every time a four-month churn happens, the new loans are created at a higher LTV. That means they need to give only lesser gold. That is why you see the tonnage coming down. Say a person who had taken INR 1 lakh would have given me 10 g last year. When he comes this time, instead of 10 g, he need to go only 6 g for the same loan. That is why the tonnage is coming down. That I've been explaining always. When you said about the new companies, in the new company you just compare Muthoot Money, where the tonnage has also gone up. The AUM, which was about INR 3,700, has gone to INR 9,700. Tonnage has gone up. The AUM has also gone up. The number of customers, the number of customers in Muthoot Money were 2.74 lakh in the last year. Today it is 4.64 lakh. Both are growing because it's a new company, a young company. For Muthoot Finance, the big company, the number of customers not that easy to grow. There is something else also there because in Muthoot Finance, that old account, the smaller accounts with up to INR 10,000 and accounts from INR 10,000- INR 30,000, actually we have lost about 15 lakh customers there. We have added the same in the higher tickets of INR 50,000, INR 1 lakh and INR 2 lakh. Overall, that is the churn which is happening. Smaller loans, people what, somebody who took an INR 10,000 loan last year, today he doesn't need INR 10,000. The money value also has gone up. He is coming for an INR 50,000 loan today or an INR 10,000-INR 20,000 loan today. That is why the number of customers are coming down. These are the views, our views about the customers and about the tonnage, and also I said about the new players and competition. Important, sir. Thank you. The last question, sir, I had is, I mean, how is the employee attrition going? I can't hear you. We can't hear you. Sir, your voice is low. Mr. Abhijit? Is it better now? Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Sir, the last question I had was on employee attrition. I mean, given that there are so many other NBFCs who are also looking to start gold financing, obviously they'll want to hire people from the best gold financing company in India. Thank you for branding Muthoot Finance as the best gold finance company. There is okay. There is always some people going away, nothing of any alarm because our numbers are also steady. If somebody goes, we take a new person, again, with competition, some people think that just by taking a few managers or staff from Muthoot, they can start a gold loan business and maybe start branches. Okay, I'm not reserving your comments now. Let us see what will happen, what they will be looking after two years and three years. Now, we have not lost any attrition. We have not lost any customers, staff, sir. We still have about 30,000 staff. We still have that. Got it, sir. Earlier, Oommen sir had mentioned that the higher interest income that we saw was also because of some higher pricing or pricing changes that we have done. Last quarter we saw a raise by about 0.5%- 1% over certain types of loans. That is why we see the yield has gone up. Got it, sir. This is useful. Thank you so much for answering all my questions. Sir, I wish you and your team the very best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Piran Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi team. Congrats on the quarter. Just sort of going back to the earlier questions, this yield movement from 20.34%- 76%, does this include the one-off interest recovery numbers, or is this just core? I, uh- No, there could be, you know, the regular churn which happens, you know. Previous occasions what happened is your NPAs has come down. You know, this time the NPAs have gone up. You know, the one-off cases will be, you know, one is the auction income, INR 50 crores. You know, what is the other thing? The ARC. ARC, that is, INR 35 crores. You know, the yield increase also has happened, you know. During the quarter. Okay. sir, Umap sir, the last quarter we also had a INR 500 crore interest write back from GNPA recoveries. Yeah. That would be part of this 20.34% yield number of last quarter, is it? Last quarter, yes. This quarter. This quarter, no, that is not part of, you know. That happened last year, last quarter. Correct. Yeah. If I adjust for that, our yield improvement is very sharp. Yeah. Yeah. 0.5%-1%. It would have improved more than 100 basis. You know, we don't want to get into the specifics of the yield increase. You know, last two quarters, you know, there have been, you know, lot of increase in the gold price, especially in last fourth quarter. You know, we have charged some extra for those disbursements. Okay. You know, we got some extra benefits. Understood. Sir, is there Now that we are anyway earning a, you know, a pretty solid yield of 20.8%, is there a thought that we can maybe cut yields a bit and increase our customer count? Because our customer count has also gone down a bit. Piran, this is something which we have always discussed, no? We have the luxury to reduce the rate, you know. That's why we always used to give a guidance of, you know, a medium-term ROE of around 3.5%. You know, if, you know, the yield reduction adds a lot of customers, certainly we would like to do, which we are already doing, you know. Last several years we have been, you know, offering schemes at lower rate. We have different schemes. We have a yield for 22%, 23%, a yield for 18%, 15%, 14%, 12%. We have different. At some point of time when we feel that we need to step up the lower yield portfolio, we'll do that. As of date, we don't need, see any need for that now. Understood. Understood. Sir, just one last question. It's just a technical thing. On Slide 28, where you talk about the margin of safety on loans from the lender's perspective. Sure. The market price of the gold. Yeah, your voice is cut off. Piran Engineer, your voice is cut off. Yeah, you are now you are audible. Yeah. In that chart where you show the market price of gold ornaments, which is INR 2,634 billion for March 2026. Is it as of 31st March, or do you take a monthly average number? No, that is No, we have put the price also on the table above, no? INR 13,441. It's as of the date. As of 31st March. At that date, sir. That date. As of the date, not a monthly average. Yeah. Yeah, that's it from my end. Thanks and wish you all the best. Thank you. The next question is from Rajiv Mehta from Yes Securities. Please go ahead, Mr. Rajiv. Yeah, hi. Good evening. Congratulations on good numbers. You know, again, just, you know, looking at the customer metrics. I mean, while the acquisition this quarter is better, you know, reactivation of customer is better. We are still kind of de-grown at the customer base level by 2%, which means we are also seeing slightly accelerated attrition. I mean, is there any observation around it that the customers already with us are also moving to competition in the quest for better rates or the high-value customers are moving out, which is impacting not just the customer number as well as it is also impacting the tonnage growth as well? Is there any observation like that by the management? I think I just five minutes back I explained, even somebody did not ask that specifically, but we explained that we have the customers up to 0- 10,000 customers. We have lost about 5 lakh customers and between 10,000- 30,000, maybe another 8 lakh customers have gone out. If the customer total count is remaining same, it only means that the customers in the other segments, maybe INR 50,000, INR 1 lakh, INR 2 lakhs, have grown. See, very small customers or ultra-small customers, they may tend to leave or maybe go away also. That doesn't matter much to us because a customer of INR 10,000 or INR 30,000 leaving us, maybe he takes it off. Either he comes again for a bigger loan or he does not come again. I don't know whether somebody is taking away the 30,000 customer or 10,000 customer. I don't think anybody would like to take such a small customer. The point I was saying was very ultra-small customers, ultra-small loan customers would have left, but the medium and the good, the better customers are still growing with Muthoot. So, uh, to- Okay. Give an example. I know suppose if I know less than 50,000 customers, say 10 lakh customers have left, you would have added another 10 lakh customers in the higher bucket. Net-net, if you see, because the smaller ticket size customers would have closed their loan, you know, which are large in number, will not be able to match the exact same orders. This happens for a large portfolio company and new company you will not face. That's why in the previous question, you know. Slide number 19. Yeah. We explained, you know, how Muthoot Money has grows. The, you know, we just want to bring a comparison to the new players. If it is a matured company, large portfolio, the churn will happen in the portfolio, you know, which is, you know, which is the, which will be there, shift in customer. Basis from low ticket size customers and, you know, higher ticket size customers. This plays, you know, an important role and, you know, in spite of this, you know, we have grown a little bit in terms of outstanding number of case. You know, this is a natural phenomena which will happen in any portfolio which has become matured. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just coming back to the yield thing, because the movement is so sharp, and last quarter you had a major interest recovery as well, which you don't have this quarter. Well, you've raised the price. So I mean, I mean, this NPA increase which has happened in this quarter, which is Stage 2 has increased, Stage 3 has also significantly increased, that would have given you some more interest income recognition maybe in this quarter. Why did this, you know, why did we see an increase in Stage 2 and Stage 3 and so much in this quarter? Is there any peculiarity around it in terms of customer profile, occupation or any geography? No, no. The Stage 3 increase has happened, you know, primarily because, you know, RBI has advised us to do a borrower-wise classification. Earlier we were doing this classification at the loan level. Today, you know, we have this time, we have done at the borrower level. To that extent there is a increase in, you know, the NPA. That's why there is a jump in the NPA. If you look at percentage-wise, you know, it is much lower than what was there in the March 2025. You know, March 2026 it is 2.3534%. I think, you know, last year March it was 3.35%. You know, the NPA absolute amount has increased because of the borrower-wise classification. This when you do a borrower-wise classification, a lot of this, you know, Stage 1 and Stage 2 customers also will be classified as an NPA, where there are. Probably the interest servicing is done, so the interest reversals will be much lower. 57%. Correct. You know, if you look at, you know, the LTV including on this NPA bucket, including the interest accrued, it is only around 58%. Stage 3. On Stage 3. On Stage 3, where we show as a NPA, the interest plus principal is only 57%. We are in the money. Okay. Technically we have to- Yeah. Maybe regulatory-wise we have to show it as an NPA, but, it is 100%, 100% recoverable with interest. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just the customer has not come forward to maybe close the loan or renew the loan, etc. That is why it is seen as an NPA. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If I were to look at your yield on a sustainable basis, I just need to subtract INR 50 crore of auction and that INR 35 crore of ARC, you know, as being one-offs. Otherwise, what you reported, 20.2% yield, should be largely sustainable unless you make some pricing changes, right? Yeah. Pricing changes can happen, you know, because it's a short-term loan to. Yeah, yeah. Try to- Yeah, yeah. This pricing increase in between happened because, you know, when there was a sudden price increase, you know, we thought, you know, we'll, you know, take some benefit of the increase in the gold price. Increase in demand also. Got it. Thank you so much, Nilesh sir. Thank you, sir. The next question is from Sanskar from Iraya Capital. Please go ahead. Wait a minute. Hello. Yeah. Hi. Sir, you touched upon like operational challenges that a newer player would face. If you can share just a brief color around, you know, in terms of examples. I understand that there was like handling gold and everything, apart from that, is there any historically from your experience, what are the major challenges? Actually, why we want to go into all these details, sir? All this, I mean, nuts and bolts of it. I told you the new players will understand after one year or so. Let us wait for them. Let, you know, why we should put words into their mouth. Let them understand it at that time. Okay, understood. If you can share some color around the growth, as you said on, that you gave guidance around AUM. If you can share growth guidance on that. Always in the first quarter, we've always been giving a guidance of 15% only. As usual, last 10 years we have been giving 15% guidance in the first quarter. In quarter two or quarter three, we will see how it is panning out and probably revise it. Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from Jyoti Khatri from Ambit Wealth. Please go ahead. Thank you. Yeah. Jyoti Khatri? Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to know 1 thing. This, Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3 increase that you said that it is because of borrower-wise classification. Is that the only reason? Apart from that, the asset quality you want to keep stable? No, that's why we said no. On Stage 3 assets, you know, including the interest dues, you know, it is only, you know, 60%. You know, maybe 50%-58%. The receivable, including principal and interest, is only 58% of the present market value of the gold. It is not because of any- Okay. Any impairment in the loan, etc. It is only because of the regulatory guidance that it should be shown as an NPA. I'm saying excluding that factor, the, I mean, otherwise the asset quality, performance is stable. Thank you. Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah. For we do, we have our audit team also. Asset quality has always been stable. Wherever there's any anything else, we just write off at that time. Secondly, sir, how do you see AUM growth as a standalone entity and console AUM? Any guidance that you would like to, you know, put for next fiscal, broad range, how do you anticipate how AUM growth to AUM could grow next fiscal? For the standalone Muthoot Finance, we have always been giving a guidance of 15%. Last 10 years, the first quarter we have always been giving a guidance of 15%. We'll continue to do that. We will re-look at it in Q2 or Q3. Okay. Q1 or Q2. After Q1 or after Q2, we will re-look at the same. Cool. Thank you, sir. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from Nishchint Chawathe from Kotak. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. You know, couple of questions actually. Any strategy or any guidance on branch expansion year and after? Yeah. Okay. Probably, last year we opened 170 branches or so. This year, maybe, 200, 300 branches. That's it. Okay. Maybe 200, 300 versus 170. This will be at the Muthoot Finance level, right? I mean, would you. Maybe if you could give some guidance on consolidated gold branches across all the companies. I think, Belstar we were thinking of opening another 200 branches or so because it has only about 100 branches. Belstar, which is a microfinance company. Muthoot Money, I don't think we are aggressively looking at. Maybe we are just, because the, yeah, the branches are quite young, so we are waiting for it to mature a little more before opening many branches there. Belstar, this 200 will be gold branches? Yeah, gold branches. Sorry. Gold branches. Okay. Got it. Essentially around roughly INR 200 in Muthoot Finance and roughly INR 200 in Belstar. I think that's the way one thinks about it. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Got it. The other thing is, you know, increase in Stage 2 loans, would also be similar reasons, you know, in terms of, you know, the borrower classification or any other reason? Yes, yes. Yes, Nishchint. You know, primarily it is because of, you know, borrower classification. Again, you know, it is not much of a concern, you know, because it's a 12-month bullet repayment loan, you know. As and when the dispersal. Got it. Keeps increasing, you know, naturally after 12 months there will be a corresponding grade in the stages. All the increase is in gold loans, right? Stage 2 and Stage 3 quarter-on-quarter increase that we see. Yes. Is in gold loans, right? I mean. Yes. Not the non-gold. Yeah. Anything specific that's growing in non-gold loans, I think which is also up around INR 3,000 odd crores in a year. Anything specific that you are doing over there? These are unsecured loans or what are these loans? These are unsecured personal loans, salaried personal loan and unsecured personal loans, which is doing actually quite well. We have about INR 4,000 crores of portfolio there. Mostly cross-sell. Cross-sell. It's mainly a cross-sell to our existing or our gold loan base. We have a gold loan base. We give personal loans to them. Cross-sell. Got it. Just finally on, you know, coming back to the yield part, you know, you always kind of maintain that, you know, 18%, 18.5% is probably a more normalized yield. Obviously we have done almost 150 or 200 basis points higher this quarter. Would you kind of incrementally say that, you know, the 20%+ is a new normal? Would you probably say that, you know, next year you would settle somewhere between 18.5% to 20%? Our finance, treasury finance says that the borrowing cost is looking north of north. Probably, we expect borrowing costs also may go up in the coming. Probably, we may not be able to reduce any more. We may be able to maintain at this rate. On a more normalized level, yeah. Sure. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Vikram Subramanian from Marshall Wace. Please go ahead. Hello. Hi, sir. Congrats on a good set of numbers and on the strong yields. I just wanted to get a clarification on the yields, based on all that you have been commenting till now. For the past three quarters, we have had a few one-offs in the yield. From INR 300 crore-INR 600 crore per quarter, based on NPA recoveries and ARC sales. You used to say the sustainable level of yield was something around 18.5%, while the reported yields were 20%, 20.3%. Would you upgrade that 18.5% now for the next year or for a sustainable basis? Is that 18.5% now closer to 20.5%? It's not, no, this number is not that particular. It's not like a long-term loan where we are giving a loan for, you know, 10 years or five years or 20 years. This is a very short- term. Tomorrow, if we want to, you know, increase it, we can increase it, you know. We may also reduce it. You know, what is the impact because of such things? We have a comfortable margin, you know. You know, this quarter, I think we have generated ROA of around 7.5. You know, it doesn't matter much in terms of the ultimate impact on the return asset. We don't want to give a view that, you know, the same rates will continue because, you know, again, you know, to be very frank, you know, you know, some of the analysts have just now asked on the competition, the customer base acquisition, etc. We as an institution might take calls in different points of time, we don't want to give a commitment that, you know, the same yields will be maintained. Understood. Understood. At least, to clarify on that, the pricing increase that you took at, some point in time in the past few months, which has resulted in this yield. As we speak, as of mid-May, that pricing, has not reverted back to the previous lower pricing. Am I right in this understanding? No, you know, see, we, you know, think from our point, we don't want to give out our strategy in terms of approach, you know, because it's a, you know, as everyone say, it is a highly competitive market. What we roll out, probably we can tell you know, after we execute it. We generally have to play by the EAR also. That means EAR means EAR. Understood. So. Understood. Understood. Understood. That thing coming. It's all very short-term loan. It's always can be dynamic. We can reduce, we can increase, et c, as required for, so that we maintain a good growth as well as maintain a good profit. I think that decision you should leave it to us. You know, every quarter you look at the numbers, you know, we can explain what has happened, you know, and, you know, take a view based on the performance in the last several quarters. Understood. Got it, sir. Just another clarification. This is on the competitive landscape, which has again been discussed, and you were very clear in your answer, and it is very clear that you are the market leader. You have done this for multiple decades, so that experience definitely helps over cycles. In the immediate near- term, are there any specific efforts to stop this? I see a 3% reduction in loan count, 2% reduction in active customer. Is the approach more long term and that competitive intensity would just course correct over the long term? So, you know, let me- I think we have said about this. Yeah, I'll clarify. What we were trying to explain is, see, you know, being a large portfolio company, been in existence for several decades, you know, we have customer base across various ticket size. What happens is, you know, the smaller ticket size customers, you know, vanish over a period of time. At the same time, we are creating, you know, higher ticket size customers also. Probably because the smaller ticket size customers were initially larger in, you know, number, you know. The liquidation, you know, brings down the customer number, you know, has a larger impact. Whereas the higher ticket size customer, the number may not be correspondingly the same. Which, you know, which we call it as a churn in the customer base. That number has not much of a relevance, you know. Ultimately, it depends on, you know, how much a customer wants, et c. Incremental. This phenomena will happen for all, you know, companies which will stabilize their business operations after some time. That's why we said, you know, look at Muthoot Money's case. You know, the tonnage is increasing. Slide number 19. Slide number 19. Muthoot Money, the AUM is, you know, almost doubled. You know, there you are seeing an increase in the tonnage. There you are seeing increase in the loan account numbers. There you are seeing increase in the customer base. The same percentage increase you will not see happening in Muthoot Finance. You know, it is, you know, the same group. The same management, you know, two different phenomenon. Which is what we are trying to educate, the investor community how this business functions. Understood. That's clear. Got it. Thank you. Thanks for that. Thank you. The next question is from Shreepal Doshi from Equirus. Please go ahead, Mr. Shreepal. Hi, sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My question was firstly, on the, what is the interest accrual number during the quarter? Mr. Shreepal. Just a minute. Any other questions? The other question is that how many Muthoot Money branches overlap with Muthoot Finance in terms of, let's say, having it in 1 kmr or 2 km radius? The other follow-up there or addition there is that now since there is no cap in terms of Muthoot being allowed to, or let's say needing to take a approval from RBI in terms of branch expansion, then why are we thinking to do gold business in the subsidiaries that we have? Can we I mean, what is your thought process there? Because now we can scale up the Muthoot Finance franchise itself, right? Okay. Just a thought there. That's an advice on a policy decision. I think we will have to discuss it internally only. No, sir. I mean, just wanted to understand, like, what's the thought process there actually. I think that's a board decision but that company's individual decisions, let us leave it to them. Interest accrual, it's INR 963 crores. INR 963 crores. The branch overlap within 1 km radius for both the entities, Muthoot Finance and Muthoot Money, broad, broader, if you can give some color. You know, I I don't know where you got this. We have branches where, you know, we have, you know, Muthoot Finance, we have, you know, gold loan NBFC number 2, gold loan number 3 in the same building. Oh, okay. Same building you will have all the competitors. Whenever Muthoot Finance opens a branch, all the competitors open branch side by side. If possible, next door, or if possible, 20 ft, 30 ft, 50 ft. There is nothing like a 1 km, 2 km, et c. Where Muthoot Money saw an opportunity, they opened a branch. Irrespective of whether Muthoot Finance is there or competitor Number 1, competitor Number 2, competitor Number 10 is there. There are so many competitors today. Got it. Got it. Just one last question was on this, the newer framework by RBI in terms of the gold financing player, for the gold financing players. From first April, we are supposed to maintain or monitor the LTVs more closely. What are the, you know, challenges are we facing at ground level or what are the deviations that we've made in terms of our processes, policies, or operations standpoint at branch level? I think the policy has been quite good. The LTV maintaining has been from the last 10 years or the 15 years back only the LTV came. Till from that date till today, we are always maintaining the LTV at the RBI regulated rates only. Now, they have given an option of giving 85%, 80%, et c. That is, gives us little more room for giving different types of LTVs and loan products to the customer. That's the only advantage. Now, the processes for that, the software for that was, is not easy. We are also in the process of doing it. We have rolled out some products also. Going forward we can, we can, what should I say, tailor-make more products for the customers. Just like Muthoot, everybody else is also coming out with newer loan schemes, etc, in line with the new regulations. Your first question, we always, whether it is now or before this new regulation or previously, we've always been maintaining the LTV at the regulatory rates only. Got it. Got it. Sir, can I just squeeze in one more question here if you don't mind? Yeah. The last question was if we have taken an interest rate increase during the quarter, and since we are also following the final framework by RBI, our disbursement LTVs would have declined on a sequential basis, right? If we've taken an interest increase, interest rate increase, then the actual disbursement LTVs typically would have come down now. Is that a fair understanding? Incrementally, if we follow this, our LTV will continue to be sticky with rates tweaking happening at your level. No, the new regulations, you know, allows you to follow two structures. You know, if you are following a bullet repayment, you have to reduce the interest accrued. You know, there are also, you know, various options are available. If you are following a EMI structure, you can give up to 85%. You know, I'm talking about INR 0.025 crore. Right. Right. Right. You know. Right We have made some changes, but, you know, at the end of the day, it, you know, it is in our interest to protect our interest, right? Right. We'll take care of that. You know, we'll discuss after first quarter on that. You know. Yeah. You know, you know, based on the- Everybody comes to terms with the new regulation. Got it. I'll maybe just take it offline with you, sir, if you don't mind. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from Sheel Shah from Sameeksha Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. Thank you. Am I audible? Yeah. Yes, you are. In continuation to LTV, on an average, what are gold loan LTV today, and what LTV range we consider comfortable from a risk management perspective? Our today, our gold loan LTV is 57%. The average gold loan in our books is. Yeah. 57%. Okay. What range do we consider comfortable? Range comfortable higher end or lower end? On a higher end, I mean. No, RBI regulations allow up to 85%, no? Yeah, but from a risk management, you know, I mean, at internal level you. We don't see, we don't see risk in, we don't see much risk in giving an 85% currently. Yeah. Okay. Historically, how much high we have given on an average? I think for last 10 years it is up, you know, 75%, you know. Right now RBI allows up to 85%. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Rakesh Kumar from B&K. Please go ahead, Mr. Rakesh. Hello. Hello. Yes. Yes. Hi, sir. A small question. If you see loan AUM per loan account, with reference to the slide number 19, the number has gone up for Muthoot Finance as well as for Muthoot Money by around 49%, 48%, 49% year-on-year. Is it that, you know, is that rise is due to the, you know, that customer borrower appetite just because of, you know, the gold loan price has gone up? What is the basic reason for such a, you know, sharp rise in the loan AUM per loan account? If you look at the same similar account, similar statistics for any NBFC, it will be the same. Loans are given for very short period. Every 3 months- 4 months, the loan gets churned, and new loans are priced at the new LTV. Somebody who had taken INR 50,000 to INR 1 lakh last year, when he comes after one year for a INR 1 lakh, instead of 10 g, he need to give only 5 g because the price has gone up. Definitely the grammage will be lesser and the LTV also will be higher. No, I am. The loan amount will be higher. Small customers, people tend to take more loans also. No, that's point taken that since the gold price is rising, obviously he can avail higher amount of loan for the same gold quantity. Exactly. Why should he take that much of loan? Okay. Is there a need basically? That, that, you know, you answered it. You know, see what happens is Muthoot Money is a new company. What happens is, you know, you are adding more and more new customers. You know, number of customers has increased from 274,000- 468,000. Now, lot of these new customers were looking at a higher ticket size customers. You know? Muthoot Finance has, you know, if you look at, you know, more than 300,000 ticket size customers, we have 30%, you know, 32% of the total book. You know, as and when the company increases its footprint as well as attracts more and more customers, people from higher ticket size also might come in, which, you know, elevates the average ticket size number. Ultimately, why should somebody pledge gold jewelry with, you know, with a 25% margin? You know, he has a requirement. Finally this business is driven by his working capital funding requirement. If he has a need, he will take a high ticket size loan. Somebody who has a, you know, lower need, he will take a lower loan. Why is he taking a loan? It is up to him. Why? Because anyway he has to repay the loan. If he takes INR 1 lakh, he has to repay INR 1 lakh plus interest. If he takes only INR 50,000, he'll take. There is a need for him. That is why he's borrowing. Otherwise, why should he borrow? See, basically this business you are dealing with large number of customers with varied needs from different funding requirements. You know, that's why you see all these numbers. It's very difficult for us also to explain it at a granular level. You know, his requirement is large, you know. Got it. You know, elevates the ticket size. Got it. Like, you know, setting aside Muthoot Money, if you look at Muthoot Finance also the similar thing is happening. There also the growth is around 48%, 48% year-on-year. The average ticket size has been growing up over the last five, 10 years. Maybe five years back, average ticket size was to INR 15,000. It became INR 25,000, then it became INR 30,000, then it became Today, I don't know how much it is. How much? I think it is INR 1 lakh. Maybe INR 1,30,000. INR 130,000. INR 1.5 lakhs. It has increased to INR 1.5 lakhs from INR 1 lakh. Basically, you would also be trying to assess that, you know, what is the, what they're doing with the loan amount. You would have also kind of looked into it. What- We ask them. You know, they say that no, somebody, some people will say that, "No, they have for business requirement," etc. You know, the new guidelines kicking in, you know, there is some assessment about, you know, his income et c. Beyond that, you know, customer may not cooperate, you know. Customer may say that, "No, he's using it for business purposes," etc. Got it. At the end of the day. Thank you. Because he has to pledge jewelry, you know, only if he has a need he will pledge. Otherwise, why should he, you know, part with a margin of 25% and pledge his jewelry? Margin is 50%. Yeah, if you include the making charges, you know, the borrower is parting with almost like 40%-50% of the value of the jewelry. Considering the inflation rise or considering the credit growth in the entire system, in the entire lending ecosystem, if this kind of a growth is there per customer or per loan account, that looks very surprising. See, people are not using this money for making an investment or no, these are all called, you know, working capital requirement no. Money lending activity, you know, is short-term, you know. Somebody has a short-term requirement, he is taking that funding, you know. Either you can borrow from your friend or, your relatives, or you can pledge with the jeweler, you know. After, you know, two weeks he will repay it. Which is why we are talking about the churn in the portfolio. Got it. Got it. He might be rotating also this, like, you know. See, you know. See, today, you know, somebody coming and taking a loan, two weeks later he will close it. He might come after maybe one month. True. True. Sure, sir. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Okay. Here from the management side, very happy that we have had lot of queries and questions, and probably we hope that we have answered your questions. We are always grateful to the investor community as well as to the analysts who actually get clarifications from us. It keeps us also well, maybe on our toes. From the management side, as a company, we would like to grow the book, grow the company, better results, which will help customers to get more money for their needs, for the investors to get more returns and maybe for the company and the staff also to do well. With all your cooperation, with all your support, we assure you that, going forward also, Muthoot Finance will put in all efforts at the top management up to the lowest level to see that the interest of all our stakeholders are well taken care of. With that, thanking all of you and also the people who participated from here for a, what should I say, a very enriching conversation. Thank you and goodbye. Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.