Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY25 analyst conference call of Newgen Software Technologies Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Deepti Mehra Chugh. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am. Hi, good afternoon, everyone. I'm Deepti Mehra Chugh, investor relations, Newgen Software Technologies Limited, and I welcome you all to the Q1 FY 25 results of the company. Joining with me today on the call is our management, Mr. Diwakar Nigam, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. T. S. Varadarajan, Founder and Whole-time Director, Mr. Virender Jeet, Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Arun Kumar Gupta, Chief Financial Officer. Before we move on to the discussion, let me highlight that this call may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning Newgen's future business prospects and profitability, which are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, and the actual results could materially vary from the forward-looking statements. Past performance may not be indicative of the future performance. The company does not undertake to make any announcements in case any of these forward-looking statements become materially incorrect in future or update any forward-looking statements made from time to time on or by behalf of the company. For further details, you may please refer to the investor relations section of our website. I would now hand over to Mr. T.S. Varadarajan for presentation of the results, which will be followed by a Q&A by Mr. Virender Jeet. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our Q1 FY 2025 financial results call. At the start of the new fiscal year, I'm pleased to report another strong quarter, showcasing significant revenue growth and robust financial performance. Revenue for the quarter reached INR 315 crores, representing a 25% Y-O-Y growth. There was good business growth across regions, with EMEA region growing at 25% Y-O-Y, India at 20% Y-O-Y. APAC has come back on the growth path with 65% Y-O-Y in the quarter, and US region was at 13% growth. Historically, the business has been seasonal in nature, with Q1 being the leanest quarter, though the impact of seasonality is slowly reducing to a certain extent. We had good additions in our client portfolio and added 13 new logos in Q1. Up-selling and cross-selling to our existing customer base has also contributed significantly to our revenue growth. We are seeing increased adoption of our trade finance, digital lending, and supply chain finance solution, driving significant revenue growth. With substantial license revenues in Q4 of last year, the current quarter marked significant uptick in implementations revenue. For the quarter, our annuity revenues were at INR 201 crores. Key orders during the quarter include order for retail loan origination system for a large Indonesian state bank with an order value of INR 11 crores. We are providing business financing solution to a leading Malaysian government-owned bank with a total order value of INR 10 crores. In the U.S., we entered into an agreement with a commercial and retail bank for the digital account opening solution, again, for INR 10 crores. We are also providing a fintech onboarding solution to a large bank in Qatar for INR 10 crore. One of India's leading engineering conglomerates selected Newgen for implementation of its loan origination system. Coming to our products and solutions, we are really excited with the good traction and customer response received by our vertical solutions in areas of trade, lending, and supply chain finance. We continue to grow with customers in understanding their evolving requirements to innovate and improve our solutions and support our customers in growth and management of their financial operations more efficiently. Further, we are working on strengthening the insurance vertical by expanding our team, building the product and deeper solutions into the space. During the quarter, we launched our new product, LumYn, and are very excited about taking it to the market. Newgen's LumYn is a groundbreaking GenAI-powered hyper-personalization platform designed specifically for the banking sector. This innovative growth intelligence system is set to enhance profitability and significantly improve customer experiences for the banks worldwide. LumYn understands and adapts to customers' evolving preferences, behaviors, and life stages in real time to drive deeper engagement and drive business growth while ensuring data privacy and security. We continue to receive accolades and analyst recognition, underscoring our ability to deliver value to our customers. During the quarter, Newgen was recognized in Gartner's Market Guide for State and Local Government Grant Management Solutions. The company has also been reaffirmed a short-term rating of CRISIL A1+ for its debt instruments. We continue to build on our global workforce and have made additions to the senior management across the globe, especially on the sales and marketing side. The quarter also saw new hiring, both campus and lateral, to support our growth plans. Strategic partnership with leading technology firms and industry alliances is helping us in broadening our market reach and increasing the global footprint. During the quarter, we partnered with Finastra, a global provider of financial software applications, to offer best-in-class banking solution for existing customers and also jointly expand the market base. Reinforcing our commitment to nurturing talent and fostering inclusive growth, Newgen unveiled a pioneering initiative aimed at accelerating the skill development and digital progress of women in underserved communities. The company inaugurated a dedicated skill development center in New Delhi to serve as a hub for imparting skill training and essential digital education to the mothers of students associated with the company's flagship social project, Newgen Digital Discovery Paathshala. On profits and margins, we delivered a healthy growth in profits and expanded margins. Profit after tax was at INR 48 crore for the quarter, witnessing a growth of 58% YOY. We continue to prudently invest in R&D and sales and marketing initiatives. As we had indicated earlier, the sales and marketing investment are being increased on account of key strategic initiatives being taken, being undertaken by the company. On the balance sheet front, our net trade receivables were at INR 402 crore as of 30th June 2024, which resulted in net DSO of 112 days. Our collection for the quarter have witnessed a growth of 18% YOY. We remain committed to delivering exceptional value to our customers, stakeholders, while driving sustained growth and innovation. Key focus areas for growth in the coming quarters for us include continued product innovation, scaling of operations, and increased global reach, especially in the mature market, and enhancing our banking and insurance solutions. Thank you, and we are open for Q&A. Thanks. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets when asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, if you wish to register for questions, please press star and one. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Our first question is from the line of Anshul Suri from Systematix. Please go ahead. May I ask the question? Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah, I want to ask, sir, like, what was your partnership during the quarter of FY 25? Like, I mean, the, this quarter partnership, like, to, in, like, the growth. What, like, partnership helped your growth in the, in the quarter? Sorry, I'm not able to get exactly. What are you referring to, in terms of percentage of revenue which is done with partners? Yeah. So generally, I think it remains static around, it hovers around at an annual basis, around 20%, which is partner-related, and 80% is still direct. So with the growth-wise, Okay. Both the business are growing, there is not a significant shift that the partner one is growing at a faster pace. So it's still at the same level as the company is growing. Same level. Okay. My next question is that, what is the PAT margin? PAT. Yeah. So for the quarter, it is roughly around 15%. Being a seasonal quarter, it's a, it's a, you know, lower top line, and the costs are slightly more flattish over the year. But, I think as you, as you see historically, it keeps on accumulating as the, as the annual targets become much larger. Okay, so 15, 15% for this quarter, the PAT. What is the, the ROE, the return on equity percentage? I think on the quarter, I don't have a number, but I think if you can write to Deepti on the investors, she can send you the details, or you can look at the presentation. Oh, okay. Also, you also, I remember in the webinar, you also claimed that you launched a new product, right, this quarter, that's what accelerated your sales and the revenue? No, I think the products are generally very early leading stages of any revenue. Predominantly, banking is a prominent sector for us, so we keep on expanding our portfolio of offerings and services. Since AI as well as generative are driving most of the use cases and front-ending them, it was important that we augment our product stack. So we have launched the product almost a couple of months back, and it's in early stage of adoption. We are doing at least proof of concept with at least 2, 3 customers globally. And I think it should help overall build the whole product portfolio and strengthen our revenue streams going forward. ... Oh, so you think that the product you launched a few months ago will really streamline the growth of the company the next coming few months, right? Like it's- Yes. So I think for product companies, yeah, it's essential to keep on launching new products to be ahead of the market and ahead of the curve. So, I think while some segments, like if you open products in insurance or other verticals, which will expand, but in your core verticals also, in core segments, you have to keep on expanding the portfolio. Oh, okay. I got it. And, okay, thank you for that. One more question. I was going through it, and, you also said that, one second here. So yeah, this quarter launched a very significant growth, right? Like a very high growth compared to the previous quarter, given the results. No, not really. I think it is in trend. It's in line with the way we have been growing for last 8, 9 quarters, and we have been growing in the range of 24%-30% in last 8, 9 quarters. So it's in line with that growth. Okay. That's a very good growth. And you also said, your relationships with clients continue to be good, like, you know, that's something that's starting to do the growth, the consistent growth. Yes. Yes, exactly. Also one more question. Sorry, go ahead. We also think that you established an agreement with some banks, right? If you remember, like, some agreement you established. Yes. So I think what we also referred in that a significant deals which were acquired this quarter, and the conversation was in reference to the deals we had in Indonesia, Malaysia, Qatar, U.S., India. These were some of the significant ones. Yeah. So your global deals are for increased outreach? Yeah. We do get roughly around between 10-15 deals a quarter, so we had 13 deals, so these were some of those significant deals. Oh, 14 deals a quarter, but you got 15 this quarter? 13 this quarter. Okay, 13 this quarter. Okay. Mm, yes. I also was wondering about one thing. I'm sorry for so many questions, but, you also had a, you're talking about some inaugural skill development center in Delhi, right? That you, this quarter you launched in Delhi, you launched some center, skill development center. Yeah, Anshul, so that is basically as part of our CSR initiatives, where we have a, you know, Newgen Digital Discovery Paathshala, where we help not only students but even their parents to upskill themselves. So we launched a large program where we helped the parents of the students to upskill themselves so that they can really contribute to the society. It's called a Digital Paathshala, that's the- Newgen Digital Discovery Paathshala. Oh, Digital Discovery Paathshala. Okay, I'll just make a note of that. Digital Discovery Paathshala. So you're like your break- Mr. Suri, may we request you return to the question queue for any follow-up questions, as there are several other participants waiting for their turn? Okay. I will return to the- Thank you. Okay. You can rejoin the queue by pressing star and one, sir, after this question. Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please restrict your questions to two, one, two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you can rejoin the queue. We have our next question from the line of Ashish Thavkar from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So, we had said that obviously in mature market, the product companies are not able to penetrate to an extent that they would have liked to, but then on the other hand, we do have a huge Middle East markets also, wherein also we have a very important play. So how do you compare these two markets, especially given the fact that, you, as a company are targeting 20-25% top line growth, and US could be a critical component of that, overall, growth aspiration? Ashish, thank you for your question. You are absolutely right. So what has happened, while we have a kind of a leadership position in our traditional markets with India, Middle East, and we continue to grow at a much higher pace, our aspiration to be a larger company and capture global market, that is why, both in U.S. and Europe, continues to be where we lead most of our, you know, initiatives of marketing and sales. So we have grown in U.S. to a threshold of 75 accounts, and we are pivoting the business to really find where do we get footholds to growth. So yeah, this is an early stage for us also, and, I think though our this quarter's growth in U.S. is around 13%, but we have not really got a handle to do a real acceleration now. But having said that, we have launched multiple initiatives, restructured our teams out there. There's a lot of strategic work happening for mature markets. While that's happening, our traditional markets continue to perform very extremely strong. You know, this time of whole crisis of IT has been completely decoupled from our core regions like India and Middle East, and we have grown at a substantial pace during last four years on that, which has helped the company to maintain. While we continue to leverage and maximize our traditional markets, our aspiration to be a global leader in our area of business continues to be there, and we continue investing in that. Yeah. So the initiatives that you talked about, possibly we ended FY 2024 with around 22% EBITDA margins. How much of the incremental margins are you willing to invest into all these initiatives? ... Generally, I think as, as you say, this company delivers very healthy growth margins because large part of our business is a high growth one. It's a license or an ATS or a subscription business. So we keep on with growth, we keep on expanding margins. We have said that, you know, generally, roughly around 20% PAT and roughly around 23%-24% EBITDA, that's the kind of a target number we are carrying today on our mind. And anything beyond that, we keep on aggressively investing for growth. That's the guideline. But as times and situations keep on changing and evolving in the market, you know, we can reassess where we go. But the purpose, the broader purpose is to build for investment, to grow business, to invest that for further growth, both in mature markets and our traditional markets. Thanks. So lastly, in terms of, you know, first, first half is usually like 40, 45% of our full year. And in terms of making our business more annuity-based, when do you see, you know, our business becoming more, annuity-based? So, you know, it's happening, but it's happening at a gradual pace because we are still driving top-line growth at a much higher number, about 20-25%, which also means there's a large dependency on upfront license revenues. So I think that, you know, more and more revenue contribution coming from mature markets will shift it. Right now, the primary growth driver seem to be our traditional market, where the business model is still license-based. So the shift is not happening at the speed which we expected. But as the revenue share from the mature market starts accumulating and the size of the company grows, you will see that generally it will get more smoother now. Yeah, this is helpful. Thanks, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, thanks for giving the opportunity, and congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, I wanted to understand this new product that we have launched, Newgen LumYn. So what is it exactly catering to, and what problem is it solving, and which area? That will be helpful. Second, about the Western geography, and, you know, IT services companies are talking about improvement in trends, specifically the Western geographies. So what is your take, you know, specifically US and India region? Do you see these geographies doing well for us, for the next part of the year, versus what they have done previously over the last six months? And the third question was on the fact that, you know, you just indicated about the PAT margin number of 20%. I mean, earlier, we used to look at 18-18.5, 19% kind of margins. I mean, does it mean that our new numbers, that we are looking at should be considered at 20%? Those are the questions, sir. Thanks, Mihir. Nice talking to you. So I think the LumYn is typically, basically an AI-based, what you call, NewgenONE personalization platform, where you can go in terms hyper-personalization for individual customer behaviors for up-sell and cross-sell. Predominantly targeted for banks in terms of either product recommendations or any other recommendations by which they can maximize their sales to their end customers, in terms of whether the products could be about loans, accounts, credit cards. So we have targeted, we have fine-tuned the product not as a horizontal layer of AI, but, but typically verticalized layer of AI, where we are able to go to a bank, you know, in terms of help them, in terms of what is the information we seek them for and what is the outcome they can and where can they integrate that outcome. As you know, we are already very strong in digital lending platforms, and this product sits on all the digital lending platforms, add more services and finally help customers drive the banks and, you know, drive better customer revenue or better wallet share per customer in terms of up-selling and cross-selling more products. That's where we are targeting it. This product is an extension of our family. The core platforms which we have are again, the NewgenONE family of platforms, which has data sciences platform. And this is one of the flavors, which is an integration of data science and generative AI. It is one of the cutting-edge products which has been launched, I think, in the market. There are very few products like that. So a lot of excitement in the market, but we are saying as any new thing, there is a lot of excitement, a lot of POCs, and the business can follow over a period of time. I hope that answers the first question. Regarding- Sure, sure. Should I? Yeah, yes, please. Yes, go on. Regarding your Western geos, I think, you know, as you are saying, most of our growth over the last 2-3 years have been driven around the emerging markets, which is our Middle East and India and some part of APAC. U.S. has slightly... Though we have grown, but it has trailed the growth rate. Right now, first, as you are rightly saying, there are early signs of revival of another banking, the large, because the large banks is one of our target customer portfolio. We see some hope, but we have not seen a big momentum shift right now in- out there. So I think we will be still, for this year, we'll be bit conservative in the U.S. We'll still target our growths, which can be healthy rates, but I don't think substantially the equation for us has changed. And again, you know, I may not, we are not the, probably the best judges of the market because we are slightly away from that business, not like service companies, yeah. The third is about PAT margin. You are absolutely right. I think, you know, we were looking at 18-19% or 20%, 18% and roughly around 21%-23%. Clearly, what is happening that the, as the company is growing, our cost basis, our ability to, you know, with stabilization of manpower, there is some amount of advantage in terms of margins right now because there's not too much of churn, and we are able to deliver, get better productivity of your team. So because people do affect our business in a lot of way. So I think we should be... If we are able to extend our growth rates above 20% and between 20-25%, we should be able to expand our margins and bring PAT to roughly around 20%. I hope that answers your question. Sure, sir. That's, that's really helpful. Just on the Newgen LumYn side, I mean, is this product like, you know, this development which is coming, is this development coming after having interactions with the customers in the Western geography, or after having interactions with the India and Middle East clients? I mean, what, what this product will be more suited for? Will it be more suited for large clients operating out of US or operating out of Middle East and India? You know, it's a difficult question to answer. You know, the product has been originated from our current core geo, not from the use cases, though it is equally relevant in all geos. But we are right now fine-tuning it in our traditional markets, India and Middle East. But we have already, you know, cases running with customers in U.S. who are trying to evaluate the product for that. So it is still built from home and taken out, you know, but we hope this product is quite horizontal, so it's very neatly on any kind of a lending digital lending platform and should be able to deliver considerable value to the end customers. Sure, Sir. Just one last question: Are our deal sizes going up over the last six months, last one year, if yes, by what percentage broadly? So I think our average deal sizes last year has substantially grown, I think from 20, around 20, 25%, where, because our number of deals were very at the same level, but the average deal size has grown substantially. I think on this quarter it will be too early to judge about because it's a smaller quarter with smaller number of wins, so it won't make an effect on deal sizes. But I think towards the end of the year, we still hope that that trend continues. Sure. Sure, yeah. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and 1 to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congratulations on good set of numbers, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you give some color how much currently, our revenue mix, if you can, and say which is on the annuity base, and how much is the AMCs that do we get, or do we get any AMC revenue? Hi, Bharat, and thanks for asking the question. I think the revenue mix will be better to look at annual basis, but I can tell you exactly what it is. Annual basis. Yeah. On, I think annual basis with you can just answer, yeah. On annual basis, we have the annuity revenue- No, why is it I'm getting a lot of echo? So... We have about 60% of revenue coming in from the annuity streams. We have 3 annuity streams, which is the ATS AMC, the SaaS revenue, and the support revenues. Together, they comprise 60% of our revenue on an annual basis. We have about 18%-20% in any particular year coming in from the license revenue. And then we have, the implementation revenue, which are the service component, which is again, 21%-22%. You will have enough details if you go to the investor presentation. There's a quite good big section about the percentage of revenues coming from various streams. Right. And so how do we see that those are growing, in which line? I mean, I mean, see, how much of our, say, license revenue we are expecting to grow? And second thing, that, within that, how much it could be a annuity base, and how much would be, say, our upfronting and AMC? So if you can give some color on that also. So, Bharat, the way it is right now, since as I explained earlier in the question, that since our business is driven both from mature markets as well as emerging markets, the emerging markets tend to follow the same revenue streams which are traditional, which is perpetual license sales, followed by ATS, followed with the implementation. And some newer use cases and newer markets are going to subscription sales. So I don't think a large shift is gonna happen in terms of distribution of that. This will continue to grow all streams at the same level. But what happens with subscription ATS, there's a compounding effect. So generally, every year, a bit of that increases. On the other hand, as our deal sizes are growing, the service part of the business, which is the implementation, is also contributing to large order size. So the implementation is growing at a much stronger pace. You'll see that also in Q1, which is also balancing the growth in the subscription. So I would say for this year, the overall numbers may look very similar to what they were last year as a distribution. Okay. Sir, what are we doing to grow in, I mean, faster pace in the mature market? I believe the profitability is much better. Is that fair understanding in a mature market than the emerging market? You know, this is a service gap. If you put on, yes, because the per person realization is more. But what happens in mature markets, the cost of sales and marketing in R&D are disproportionately large. So there, generally, if you look at our company, you know, our peer company spends roughly around 40% of the revenue on sales and marketing. So it is not that the mature markets are going to be, you know, cheaper or have better margin profile. They have a better gross margin profile, but in terms of net margin, they're also very expensive markets. So we have done the hard work. We have already been, been invested for 7-8 years, and our base is quite strong. So what we think is right now, margin is not going to be that important. We can continue with these margin profiles. They're very healthy anyway. But our growth, so we're spending most of the marketing dollars for growth of revenue in those parts. Once the revenue reaches a particular threshold, the margin will expand automatically. You're absolutely right. What is happening right now, the most of the investments, the delta investments are happening for mature markets, whether they're for horizontal product sale or whether they are opening up a new vertical in insurance. So you see, last 3, 4 years, we have opened subsidiaries in Australia, we've strengthened our U.S. office. So those are the things we are doing out there. Last question, sir. Whatever, I mean, expense detail we incur for the new product development, so do we capitalize or write it off in P&L itself? We write it off always in P&L. We don't capitalize any expenses. Okay, thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you. ... You may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Vinay Nadkarni from Hathway Investments Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to check up, I've got some four questions. Uh, sorry- One is on the revenue. Mr. Nadkarni, you're sounding a bit muffled. If you're using the speaker phone, may we request to use the handset mode, please? Can you hear me? Yes, sir, please. Hello. Yeah, Vinay, please go ahead. Can you hear me now? Yeah, we can hear you. Please go ahead. Yeah, sorry for the trouble. I just wanted to check out for the revenues that you have made this year, around INR 315 crores in quarter one. What would be the breakup between the first time orders and those which are repeat orders? So, Vinay, generally, at the annual basis, the existing customers contribute roughly around 80%-85% of our business. Two, that also means new deals in those orders does not mean the repeat of business, because you have to sell more. And for the same year, because if you book also orders, you may not be able to realize all. So for the same year, you will be only able to get around 15%. In a great year, you may go up to 20%. But between 15%-20% revenue is the max we can get from the new logos. We call them new logos, so basically. Correct. Okay, and these new logos that you have, roughly they are more in the same banking and health sector, or you're getting some new logos in some new categories? Generally, predominantly in the focus verticals, which is typically banking, financial service, followed with insurance, and then some amount in terms of shared services, BPOs and government. So those are our verticals, and I think we continue to get logos in the same verticals. Okay, quickly on the hiring side, how many people have been hired in quarter one, and how many... Is there any layoffs made? No, I think, you know, we are a fast-growing company, so we need people. So what has helped, I think we have hired roughly around 500 campus people since January till until now, so they are already on board, most of them, maybe. There is some practical hiring laterals going on. Okay. Uh- Sorry. What is your order book size, sir, now, on thirtieth June? So I think, you know, we have, we don't have an order book at a quarter. We do provide eventually annual order book sizes- Yeah, okay. what it was. So I think that you already have. Yeah. Quarterly, you know, we, we have the number, but it does not mean anything because there's a lot of renewals which happen at different periods of time. Okay. Do you have a cash and cash equivalent number as on thirtieth June? Uh, I in the- Cash and cash, yeah. INR 850, which is cash, bank, and investments put together. 800 and? INR 50 crore. Yeah, INR 850 crore approximately. Okay, thank you very much. I'm, I'm through. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Rao from Kuber Asset Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Can you hear me? Yeah, Deepak, please go ahead. Yeah. I actually have three questions. First two questions are regarding the seasonality. So, could you tell us in FY 2024, what was the revenue breakup in each of the quarters? And you also mentioned that the seasonality is getting diluted now. So like, compared to, say, FY 2023 and the next year, what are the changes happened in the seasonality pattern? Yeah. So, you know, I think broadly I can, but you can look at the exact numbers. But, if I remember right, I think we have moved from the Q1 generally falls between roughly around 17%-21% of our annual revenue for the same year. And this, from 17 to 21, we have moved over last three years. Okay. There is a 3-4% shift happening every year. Q1, Q2 are leaner quarters, and Q3 and Q4, Q4 being the largest quarter. So I would say that this has been the shift has been not more than 4%, you know, over last 3 years. Got it. So it's basically say 20, 20, 30, 30, or so. Like- Yes. So something like 21, 20, 20, 22, and then followed by. The second question I have is that when we say 60% of revenue is annuity, why should... Annuity will not be seasonal, right? So, or is that also seasonal? No, you are absolutely right. Annuity is completely non-seasonal. But then if you are, the growth, growth is driven from the new deals which you make within the quarter or what you have done previous quarters. So, annuity basis remain the same. They almost get in revenue realization divided by four. So is it therefore the product sale that gets pushed to quarter three, quarter four? That explains it. Exactly. So basically, with all software companies globally, who are in the license model, typically Q3 and Q4 are the large negotiated deals, where they end up closing. So the lumpiness will kind of come from predominantly the license sale across quarters, as well as corresponding milestone revenues which are linked to those licenses. And then the milestone revenue realization also happens in Q3, Q4 more. Thanks. I have one more short question, if I'm allowed to. Sure, go ahead, please. The third question I have is related to the ESOP scheme. What is the objective? Who are the people given this? What is the scheme and what is the impact on the bottom line over the next few quarters and years? ... Yeah, so see, predominantly, we have been doing this for last 15 to 20 years, making, you know, employee participation as a part of the growth of the company. And last 2, 3 years, we have been making, again, trying to do a very broad-based ESOP scheme, where there is a more, kind of, time-based ESOP allocation to all employees, predominantly on their performance, promotions, and other, other such activities. The contents are small, but we believe that the people who stay for long term, the overall aggregate values will become bigger for them. I think what we have got, I think in last 3 years, we have got roughly around 2% and 1% permission from the board to add to the ESOP scheme. Exactly on the financial terms, what is going to be the impact over next 1, 1 or 2 or 3 quarters on that? I think you can write to Deepti, and she can exactly give you that information. But it is not very different than what we have done in last 3 years. So there's not gonna be any incremental PNL impact just because of any ESOP or long-term incentive scheme. Yeah, got it. Thanks, and best of luck for the, in the few quarters and years. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead. Hello? Hi, Rahul, please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So, actually, I wanted to understand your perspective about how, you know, your go-to-market strategy has been evolving around, you know, two, three aspects, you know, if you want to address on those lines. Firstly, in terms of expanding product offering, right, from LumYn, Marvin, NewgenONE, and so on. And also the way we have upscaled our solution scoping, you know, like we do complete lending or, you know, supply chain versus a much smaller element of that process we were doing earlier. And thirdly, from a developed market strategy perspective, where, you know, our past approach towards driving that market with GSIs has not played to the right expectations. So from these two, three perspectives, if you could share your thoughts. Yeah, Rahul. So thank you for the question. You almost answered the question. You explained exactly our GTM strategy. But yeah, I think on a more serious note, you are absolutely right. There are three elements to that. I think on the horizontal product expansion, it continues to be relevant, and for your products to be considered at a global scale as top 2 or 3 or 4 products, you have to keep on investing in that. And yeah, as you are investing, you are also making the spectrum of what we cover wider. But we don't want to distinguish the two means. The areas of content management, low code or business process management and customer service, these are the three areas on horizontal. So whether analytics comes, generative AI comes, or any other technology comes, they get expanded and added to the same stack, which makes them relevant and also increases the per deal size value, because you are adding more functionality to the product. But the larger part of our growth strategy or which, which comes from typically the GTM, where is typically expanding our vertical offerings. So if you look at four years back, predominantly around, you know, origination and account opening and lending, that was all. Today, I think we have gone expanded to the stage as you see in supply chain financing. Some amount of work we are doing also in service request management, which is typically a large area emerging in banks. So expanding our offerings in banking solutions as well as now we are investing currently also to go deep on insurance, both on health and general, both on claims as well as origination offerings. So these products are being developed and co-developed with customers right now. So this is the direct material growth driver for us, because, you know, we are able to get our account realization as well as go and penetrate into more accounts. Third, which is the most important, is the geo expansion, and for us, that is typically the mature market penetration. Out there, there are multiple strategies, again, how to push the horizontal product sales through partners, or then how do you exactly go again, like in India or Middle East, how do you go and target 100 banks and get wallet share on that? So all these four strategies do almost operate in parallel, and at different times, they have different returns. What has fired really, for last two, three years, has been the second strategy, which is our additional adding our solution sales products in banking and insurance. The other things will take time to fire or will have a different timeline when they will fire. Right. So, I got the pulse. Just with one more element, if you could share, like, how you would define and redefine your sales team, because, if you... Generally, we see companies are either horizontal or vertical. You know, we have markets to play here, horizontals and verticals. So is it, everybody carry a different type of quota, from a horizontal, vertical, and geo perspective, or, it's like one strategy per market, or how is it? So the GTM pursuits are completely predominantly for us, verticalized. So our sales engines are almost verticalized to expand in terms of this, because it's a named account targeting which we do. So predominantly, we don't expand our named accounts beyond insurance, banking, financial services, and government. So everything else come in the bucket of either partner-led or an inbound-led for us, cases. So, you know, so for us, it's typically in our mind, there are two things. One is about what we go out with. That means we take an X number of things, and that's what we sell very aggressively as a named account.... And then there is another, which is a channel strategy or a partner strategy or an inbound strategy, which are on more horizontal product sales. Out there, we are slightly, you know, agnostic to the vertical, because the partner may have a vertical capability, and he may use our horizontal platform to sell our product. And this is an area we are very hopeful to over, as the time goes, this will start contributing to a larger share of our business over the next 3-4 years. Quite helpful. Thank you, and best of luck for time. Thank you, Rahul. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dr. Nishit Patel from Nischay Healthcare Private Limited. Please go ahead. Hello, I'm audible? Yeah, please go ahead. Okay. Congratulations for the good set of numbers, sir. I just want to ask you one question, that the new product that you have launched is Newgen, Newgen, and NewgenONE Marvin, that you have been launched last year. So, how this is going to impact your top line and bottom line in the future, and how much you are expecting the revenue growth from this, both product activity? Thank you for your question. So I, I think as I already answered, in this, generally, when you expand your horizontal product offerings, they are typically to be more competitive, more relevant, and increase the overall offering size for that. These products on their individual lines to drive a delta revenue, that happens over a more significant time. It may take three years to four years to evolve the number funnel on a individual product. So right now, we are in the early stages of these products. We hope that, you know, once the sales is being driven through these products and that picks up, we surely think that we can add to a kind of a, we can add to a delta. But right now, I think, at the time of launch, attributing the delta-dollar value is too premature for that. Okay. What is the basic difference between the NewgenONE Marvin and NewgenONE LumYn? Is it both are different vertical or the same vertical and the same horizontal? So, Marvin is our generative AI addition to our horizontal product offerings. So wherever you are doing content creation, process definition, any other capabilities you are adding in, the Marvin helps you to define it better and uses the large language models to make it more efficient and very fast. LumYn is targeted for banking, specifically to help them on hyper-personalization. So they are two different that, almost targeted to different areas of product. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you for the clarification, sir, and all the best for the future, sir. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Deepti Mehra Chugh for closing comments. Thank you everyone for attending the call. For any further queries, you can go to our website, or you can connect with me and ask your questions. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Newgen Software Technologies Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.