Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q2 and H1 FY 2022 earnings conference call of Oriental Carbon & Chemicals Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectation of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Akshat Goenka, Promoter and Joint Managing Director of Oriental Carbon and Chemicals Limited. Thank you. Over to you, Mr. Goenka. Good afternoon and a very warm welcome to everyone. Hope everybody had a good Diwali break. Along with me, I have Mr. Anurag Jain, our CFO, and SGA, our investor relation advisors. We have uploaded our results and investor presentation for the quarter and half year ended 30th September on the stock exchanges on the company website. Hope each one of you have had a chance to go through the same. I am pleased to share that the board of directors has declared an interim dividend of INR 7 for equity share, that is 7% of the face value of INR 10 each for the financial year 2021-2022. This increase in interim dividend is in line with our new policy. Coming to the performance of the company, we have witnessed revival in demand post second wave of COVID. Improvement in economic activities, accelerated vaccinations, and significant decline in COVID cases has resulted in normalization of replacement and OEM tire demand in domestic and international markets. The business environment looks stable, except for Southeast Asian markets which are still affected by COVID. Over the past few months, raw material prices have been on an increasing trend. Businesses across industries are facing the input cost inflation, and we are no exception to this. Price of every raw material that goes in has been rising sharply, and we have yet not seen the cost softening. The sharp increase in raw material prices, along with high freight costs, has resulted in lower margins and impacted our overall profitability because of the time lag in raising the finished product prices. Our competition has slumped across the world, hence it's always a challenge to recover higher freight costs. Our company continues to be focused on improving operational efficiencies and are continuously taking steps towards controlling costs. In the long run, we expect margins to normalize. Coming to our expansion project, we have completed our phase one of Insoluble Sulphur. The company is in the process of starting trial runs. We expect to commission the project at end of November 2021. The acid plant, however, will spill into December as one crucial part is still in transit from the U.S. It was delayed due to the various issues with logistics. Optimum utilization of the new line may only happen in calendar year 2023, as currently even our existing capacities are only at approximately 80%-85% utilization levels. Regarding phase two, we are continuously monitoring the situation and expect to start ordering the machinery sometime in the second half of calendar year 2022 to have it come on stream for the calendar year 2024. We will again review this in a few months. Our company is focused on developing higher grades of IS and improving penetration into developed markets like Europe and North America. Our company aspires to gain a market share of approximately 10% in North America in the next 3 years. We are currently facing serious challenges, however, there due to the exorbitant freight rates which render us uncompetitive, as well as companies preferring local suppliers due to the uncertainties in logistics. Post the second wave of COVID, our subsidiary business, Duncan Engineering, has started performing well, and we are seeing very good growth in the order book over there. Now I would like to hand over the line to Mr. Anurag Jain to update you on the financial performance of the company. Thank you, Akshat. I will now take you all through the standalone financials of the company. Total income for Q2 FY 2022 stood at INR 100.9 crores as compared to INR 86.5 crores in Q1 FY 2022 and INR 81.8 crores in Q2 FY 2021. Q-o-Q growth of 17% and Y-o-Y growth of 23%, on the back of revival in demand post the second wave of the pandemic, normalization of replacement and OEM demand in domestic and international markets. EBITDA for Q2 FY 2022 stood at INR 24.3 crores as compared to INR 22.8 crores in Q1 FY 2022 and INR 33.5 crores in Q2 FY 2021, a growth of 7% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA margins for Q2 FY 2022 stood at 24.1%. Margins have been impacted due to a sharp increase in raw material prices and freight costs, and RM pass-through normally happens with a lag of 3-6 months. However, we are continuously focusing on improving operational efficiencies and taking steps to control costs. Profit after tax for Q2 FY 2022 stood at INR 12.6 crores as compared to INR 12.4 crores in Q1 FY 2022 and, sorry, a growth of 2% Q-o-Q and INR 20.4 crores in Q2 FY 2021. Our PAT margins for Q2 FY 2022 stood at 12.5%. As far as the half year numbers go, total income for H1 FY 2022 stood at INR 187.3 crores as compared to INR 128.8 crores, a year-on-year growth of 25%. For H1 FY 2022, EBITDA stood at INR 47.2 crores as compared to INR 42.5 crores, a year-on-year growth of 11%. Margins for half year stood at 25.2%. Profit after tax for H1 FY 2022 stood at INR 25.1 crores as compared to INR 21.8 crores, growth of 15% year-on-year. Margins for half year stood at 13.4%. With this, I would like to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touch tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Umang Shah from Saraf Capital. Please go ahead. Mr. Umang Shah, you may please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. Yeah. Am I audible? Yes, sir, you are. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, the first question was, sir, with increasing freight rates, the imported Insoluble Sulphur in India will also be getting expensive. Are we getting any, are we gaining any market share in the domestic segment? The imported Insoluble Sulphur mainly comes from Asia itself. Even though it is getting expensive, the per ton increasing cost is not substantial. Which is quite so if it gets exported to, say, America or Africa or Europe. Right. There is impact, but we can't see that impact currently on the prices. Right, sir. Sir, the second question was, you mentioned in your initial comments that, your global customers are taking some, like getting some purchases from low cost manufacturers. Sir, who would they be and from which geography would they be coming from? Please repeat the question. Sir, just wanted to understand, Like are we seeing increasing competition from Chinese suppliers on a global level? No, we're not seeing increasing competition at a global level as yet. They are increasingly becoming more competitive within China and also in Asia. Okay, sir. what percentage of our sales will be coming from China? Right now nothing. Nothing to speak of. Okay. Very, very minimal. Okay. Okay. I'll join back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touch tone telephone. The next question is from the line of Atul Kothari from Progwell Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Sir, I have a couple of questions. My first will be, sir, how have the export markets performed in the quarter gone by? Have we started seeing demand traction from North America and the European market? See, in export market there has been a little slowdown in Asia. Mm. On account of pandemic. European market has been normal. Mm-hmm. American market again has been normal. The demand has been normal, our supply has been less. As far as Asia is concerned, there has been a little bit of slowdown. Sir, as far as Asia is concerned? There has been a little bit of slowdown because of pandemic. Okay. Demand has not yet revived fully. Okay, sir. Sir, have we added any new customers or have we garnered more business from existing customers? This is an ongoing process. It keeps happening. Okay, sir. Sir, may I know as to which are the main regions where Sulphuric Acid is sold? Sulphuric acid is basically sold for battery, for fertilizers, for detergents. These are the three main, but of course it finds use in many other applications where it is sold through distributors. Okay. It finds use in pickling of metals. It finds use in the cement industry, many industries. Okay. Yeah. Okay. sir, if you can give me a broad idea in terms of the geographical region where we normally sell Sulphuric Acid. The nature of the material is such we are restricted to North India. Basically if you look at it, states of Haryana- Okay. Bihar, UP, Punjab and Rajasthan. Okay. Sir, how was the demand during Q2 FY 2022 for Sulphuric Acid? The demand was okay. It was, I mean, the demand was there. It was a good demand was there in this. Okay, sir. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. That's all from my end. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anuj Sharma from Emkay Investment. Please go ahead. Thank you for this opportunity. My first question is, the China Sunsine 30,000 tons, I believe is in trial run and will go operational soon. Any changes in the market dynamics do you expect due to this plant? I think they have already operationalized one of their plants. The other capacity we are not sure when it, you know, when it will get operationalized. The one they had to do has already been commissioned to my knowledge. Okay. You're referring to the 30,000 ton capacity or a different capacity? 30,000 tons, yes. Okay, that's operationalized. Any impact globally you have seen because of this capacity? As Akshat Goenka had pointed out, the impact would be in China and maybe in some Asian countries. That is where we are seeing some Chinese competition. All right. My second question is ex of China and India, globally, how is the supply situation expected for the next 12 to 18 months? If you are asking whether there would be any addition of capacities, we don't have any information of additional capacities coming up. Okay. I don't think, in my personal opinion, anybody will be expanding capacities for the next two years. I think the investment in Insoluble Sulphur is done now for everybody. Okay. Including China. All right. There was few reductions. Have they happened as per the plans? Yes, yes. Whatever we are aware of. All right. All All right. My next question is in your presentation you have mentioned that you're planning to introduce new products in the Insoluble Sulphur space. Can you just expand a little bit on this as to, you know, is it a new product portfolio which you are catering to? Is it replacing or it was a product gap which you're trying to address? Some insights into the new value-added products. No. What happens is that the market keeps evolving and it's typically led by the largest player. Then, after that, everybody else plays catch up and tries to match that product. That is what we are referring to. It's not a new product as such. It is a improved version which we are starting to introduce in the market slowly and seeing that whether the performance matches that of the top player. All right. My last question is on Duncan's. Congratulations, you're seeing some traction. Can you just elaborate a little bit as to, you know, what are we seeing in Duncan, the order book and the opportunity for the next year or two over there? As far as Duncan is concerned, the order book is so strong right now that our operations are not able to service it because of supply chain challenges and other challenges. The order book is running far ahead of our production capacity that is there today. Now, this production capacity can easily be augmented by fixing the supply chain. It's not a big issue. It's a temporary issue. If this theme continues, then I think we will see some good growth coming out of Duncan. All right. Just in terms of numerical terms, what is the order book for Duncan? Let me put it in a way that you'll understand it better. The pending order book, let's say, is 20% higher than it normally is. All right. You can say it in those terms. All right. Thank you. I'll come back if I have more questions. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Dhruv from HDFC AMC. Please go ahead. Yeah, sir. Thank you. In the previous question, in the previous answer you mentioned that the import landed is not as beneficial as the export. Is it because of the differential between the freight rates, say from Asia to India versus India to U.S. and China, U.S. and Europe? Is that the differential which is not, and hence the benefit is not as significant? What I said was that there has not been much effect on the import landed price of the imported material in India. Yes, the reason is that, you know, the freight from, for example from Malaysia, is low and therefore even if it increases, the differential for the material becomes very low. There's another point, Dhruv, which you're referring to and that is also correct. Export rates for the same sector are far higher than import rates for the same sector. Yes. This has been a global phenomenon where Asia to the West is more expensive than West to Asia. The locals, say for example in Europe and U.S., relatively stand a better chance, as long as the freight rates remain elevated abnormally high. It depends on what strategy they adopt. Mm-hmm. Got it. Got it. Got it. Sure. I mean, certainly the cost of shipping to the West is much higher than it has ever been. Got it. In the commentary, in the press release, you do mention about India market seeing a significant capacity expansion, the entire market seeing a significant capacity expansion. How should we see this for us? Does it mean that our share of domestic product, domestic sales increases, and does it have any influence on our long-term average margin that we look for? See, we always say that our market share in the domestic market is roughly 60%. Even if that market share remains constant for a moment, if you assume, the Indian market is very well poised to grow in double digits. The growth in Indian market is much, much higher than the growth in the global market and the growth in our export sales. Would it be fair to say that the Indian market will fetch you a better margin versus the export market? No, no, I don't think, I don't think we can say that. Okay. Okay. Got it. Just the last question is on, can you share the average utilization for the quarter, if you do that? Sorry, please repeat the question. The capacity utilization for the quarter. Yeah. Just give me 1 minute. Just give me a moment. Sure. It's about 80%. Okay. Sure. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Faisal Hawa from H.G. Hawa & Co. Please go ahead. When do you feel that we will next, you know, look for any kind of capacity expansion in our core business? What is going to be our, you know, policy for free cash flow being generated? Regarding the capacity expansion, we have another 5,500 tons lined up, which we'll probably activate sometime in 2022. Beyond that, right now there are no plans. As far as our policy for free cash flow, we have already outlined it in our new dividend policy, which is on the website, where we are going to basically be paying out up to 50% of PAT, which will probably amount to our entire free cash flow. It will be going out as dividend. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav Garg from CCIPL. Please go ahead. Sir, I wanted to understand that our revenue in this quarter was INR 97 crores, whereas in December 2020 quarter it was INR 106 crores. Sir, I understand that we must have taken some price hike during this period. How is it that our revenue is lower than it was three quarters back? As I, as we have explained, the revenue was lower because we did not see growth in the European market, and there was a decline in the Asian market. Obviously, the total sales in quantity terms was lower, and that is why the revenue is lower. Okay, okay. Our volumes fell basically as compared to past volumes. Yes. The volumes which are in the December quarter are lower in this quarter. Okay. What kind of price hike have we taken during this financial year, FY 2022? How much are we planning to take in the remaining part of the year? We have taken a hike of about 5% in this quarter. In the coming quarter, again, there could be some increase. We are already asking for increase in the, and it comes in this October, November, December quarter. Okay. Okay. As far as our realizations are concerned, like you were mentioning that we are constantly trying to come out with new grades of Insoluble Sulphur. Basically, how do our realizations compare with the market leader as well as the Chinese companies? I mean, are we selling at a discount or a premium to our to the competition? We are not selling at a discount. That is not our selling proposition. Obviously we are not selling at a premium. We would say that we would be getting roughly the same realization as our competitors are getting on different geographic areas. Okay. Like, with these new variants, that we are trying to come out with. Is there scope for significant increase in realizations going forward, or it will be primarily volume led? No, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. No. These are, as I said, you know, more iterative improvements. This is not a radically new product. Okay. Okay. Not much scope from there. Lastly, wanted to understand that, sometime back some private equity company acquired the market leader. I mean, what impact are you seeing in the market? Are they trying to undercut prices and push volumes? Or, or what kind of impact are you seeing, if any? I actually read in the news recently that their transaction closed on first of November. I think it is, you know, now we will see how they want to behave in the market. It's available on the news. I thought that. Okay. Okay. Too early to comment. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. First of November it closed. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Samarth Singh from TPF Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a clarification on a question from the previous caller. The reduction in volumes from Europe and Asia, that's simply because freight rates have made us slightly uncompetitive in terms of pricing. Is my understanding correct? No, that's not correct. We've seen reduction in volumes in Asia because there's been a COVID-induced slowdown over there, which has impacted the second quarter. We have not seen any significant reduction in volume in Europe. Okay. It's essentially the market itself that has de-grown a little bit. Correct. Okay. You made a statement on, in terms of exports. Our pricing is becoming slightly uncompetitive due to high freight rates. Now I believe you've, majority of our repricing is gonna happen, in quarter four, starting January. When you say our pricing is uncompetitive, is that full pricing or is it, is it already the case? See, I couldn't understand what you said. I could understand you were saying something about Q4, but unfortunately I couldn't understand the rest of it. On the last call, I believe we said that starting Q4, a majority of our contracts will be repriced. Yeah. The contracts are. Yeah, that is right. As I said earlier also, we have the net price increase from Q1 to Q2 has been about 5%. We are getting some price increase in Q3 also, and Q4 also. Unfortunately for us, the raw material prices have increased, have kept on increasing, and they have not stopped yet. Right. my question was, you know, in the, in our opening statement, we said that we, in terms of exports because of freight rates, we are already becoming, our pricing is becoming uncompetitive. my question. Hello? Hello? Yes, sir. Hello? Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viral Sarvaiya from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, as you said that our market share in domestic market is almost 60%. I wanted to know, so how about the remaining 40%? Is it supplied by some import players or is there any domestic players? It's basically 100%. We are only domestic player, and the rest is catered by imports. Okay. How about the, sir, pricing of the imported material as well as our? Comparable. Okay. Okay. Sir, when you said that you are looking to grab 10% market share in North American region in next 3 years, how big is this market in terms of size? Around 40,000 tons. Okay. currently are we supplying anything to North America right now? We are. We are supplying. Sir, how much it would be? No, that is something which is difficult for us to disclose. Yes, we are supplying and we are a constant supplier. Okay. In terms of revenue, how much North America contributes, sir? Maybe in terms of revenue. Sir, you are asking the same question in some other way. I'm sorry, I cannot reply to that. Okay, not an issue. Sir, what is the ideal fixed asset turnover in our business? What is the? Fixed asset turnover. You are, you know, you are expanding the capacity, wanted to know the CapEx which we are doing of INR 416 crore. What will be the incremental revenue in that? Sir, the incremental revenue should be. Just give me a moment because the prices keep on changing. Bear with me a moment. It should be around INR 100 crores. Because it includes the Sulphuric Acid plant also. Okay. this 11,000 plus the 42,000 sulfuric plant both generate INR 5,500 plus the Sulphuric plant. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. As a, INR 5,500, that is, add additional INR 65-70 crores. Okay. Of INR 11,000, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Umang Shah from Saraf Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my questions again. Sir, if you could give a rough idea on what percentage of your Insoluble Sulphur goes to CV segment, that would be very helpful. We do not supply to CV or other segments, you know, we supply to tire companies. Then they use the sulfur either in CV or PV or whatever, you know. For us to say this much goes to CV segment would be. Right. Not possible. What you can do is, you know, out of the total tire production, how much tons go to CV segment and how much to PV, roughly the same ratio can be taken. Right. sir, because our largest competitor mentioned in this call some time back that almost 10X amount of Insoluble Sulphur goes into commercial vehicle tires. I think simply because of the weight. sir, just wanted to understand if the increase in commercial activity has any link to our sales. Increase in commercial activity would increase tire production. Obviously, if you are saying, weight, obviously more Insoluble Sulphur goes into a commercial tire than a PV tire. Right. Right. To ask me what is the%, of PV versus CV, that can only be, you know, taken out from total purchase. Absolutely. Absolutely. I understand, sir. Sir, one more question was, sir, although we mentioned that, radialization of tires is a major opportunity for us, sir, also wanted to understand if radialization is increasing the life of the tires to a substantial extent, then wouldn't we lose out on the sales for replace. Like, wouldn't it kind of reduce our revenues with respect to newer tire production? I don't think so because once you had the radial tires, there was a lot of retread which was happening there. Correct. Correct. Whether the life of the actual tire is going to increase significantly or not, I have my doubts. Yeah. You're saying the retreading will decrease? That is what I think. That overall the consumption should be better for us. Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct. Even if it stays the same or slightly increases the life- Right. just the amount of Insoluble Sulphur that goes into it will more than make up for it. Okay, great. Great. Thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my questions. All the best. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of N.K. Jagannathan, individual investor. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just couple of questions. Sir, about the freight cost, that's my first question. Is it cooled off for now or is it still increasing in interest? The trend in November, In November we have started seeing a slight decrease in international freights. That's it for now. Okay. For now it is cooled. Yes. It has started to come down a little bit now. Okay, sir. Sir, two, three quarters before, you told that there is some sort of demand supply mismatch happening globally. Is it still the case? If it's so, how is the tire manufacturing expansion going on in India, can be the solution to this problem? The demand supply mismatch would still be there because the demand has not yet risen to its full potential yet. I did not get your second question, please. The tire manufacturing expansion happening in India for the next two years or so, will that be able to solve the issue of the demand supply mismatch issue? No, again, I didn't get. You were saying that there would, you know, there would be tire ex- capacity and production expansion in India. What is the question? Basically, asking is after this expansion, we'll be able to sell out the additional capacity. That is, that is what we hope. Okay. That we are able to, you know, sell out our additions, significant part of our additions in the expansions in India. Okay, sir. Okay, sir. Thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you. Reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Jayesh Parekh from JMP Capital. Please go ahead. Sir, can you give me a small clarification whether this Insoluble Sulphur will find any application in lithium battery going forward? No, I do not think it will find any application in lithium battery cells. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mananjan, individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello, sir. Good afternoon. I wanted to ask, as you said, in the opening comments that we are experiencing heavy cost inflation in raw materials. Do you have any expectations on when we would see any cost softening in the raw materials? Our expectation was that we should have seen it in the month of September itself. Unfortunately, it's still going up. The Sulphur prices are going up. They continue to go up. Frankly, your guess is as good as mine, because we don't see any logic in it going up as of now. Okay. Okay. Whatever price increases that we're discussing with our customers currently in January and that we have discussed now, do you expect to pass all the raw material cost increases to them in these price increases? What's happening is, of course, whatever prices, for example, were there in September, we talked about that in the month of October, wherever we were discussing Q3 prices, which we do in September. August prices were taken into consideration, but then the prices increased in September, they increased in October, and they have increased in November as well. Mm-hmm. Again, when we are talking, Q4 prices, we have taken the current prices into consideration. Okay. Okay. understood. regarding your capacity expansion that you're currently taking, that you expect to commission, you would have a total of about 40,000 tons in Insoluble Sulphur. When do you expect to reach optimum utilization for this total capacity of 40,000 tons? Calendar year 2023. Calendar year 2023. You would consider the second phase of capacity expansion only in calendar year 2023, right? No. If we have a visibility. Yes. That we are doing this and we need the additional quantities in 2024, then we need to kick-start the project somewhere in the middle of 2022. Okay. Okay. Understood. just one more question again. What is the incremental revenue that you expect? I was not able to understand it at that time. What is the incremental revenue you expect from phase one of Sulphuric Acid and Insoluble Sulphur? That was around INR 100 crores as I said. INR 100 crores from the phase one. Phase one and phase two combined would be about? That should be another INR 65 crores-INR 70 crores. That should be another INR 65-70 crores. Should be, yes. I believe the revenue has moved up since our last expectations. Is it due to the price increases that we have recently experienced? No. This is the current price, so they have moved up from our last quarter. Oh. -that is. If you look at the six months, the revenues are pretty much the same. you expect the current high prices to sustain, that means, going forward for the next three, four years? Well, you never know what will happen. I will not ever. Okay. make that prediction. All right. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you very much. That is it from my side. All the best. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogansh Jeswani from Mittal Analytics. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. sir, like you mentioned that, you are operating at around 80% utilization. Maybe can you also share what would be the overall industry level utilization? Will that be possible for you to share, sir? I think it should be around the same, you know. If you're talking about the global industry. Yeah. -it should be around the same ballpark. Yeah. Okay. Given the Chinese capacity that has come in, you feel that the utilization won't go down below 80% in coming few quarters? No, I don't think so. That is why we are saying that, you know, we intend to use the expansion by calendar year 2023. Our expectation is that it should not go below 80%. Fair. That's really helpful. Sir, secondly, I missed out on the incremental sales that you mentioned on the figure. There were some disturbance in the line. Could you repeat that for me, please? I think I'm repeating it for the third quarter of the year. For incremental sales, this is an estimate again, you know, based on the current prices. It should be around INR 100 crores for phase 1. Thanks. Sir, will it also be possible to break it down between insoluble and sulfuric, the INR 100 crore? Yeah, it will be possible, but I will not be disclosing that. Sure. Sure. Sir, lastly, can you just provide me number of the interest amount that we might have capitalized during the quarter? Number of? Of the CapEx, interest cost that you might have capitalized for this CapEx. So, so, uh- For half, for half. One second. Interest capitalization for half. We will know the exact number of the total capitalization only once the plant is commissioned in the month of November. Let us go ahead. Once I get the number, I will give it to you. Sure. Sure. That's it from my side. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viral from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. The follow-up opportunity. Sir, what is the optimal utilization, you know, for our product? Right now we are, you know, we are working at 80% utilization. How, what is the optimum utilization, you know, which we can go up to? No, it can go up to 100%. Okay. Yes. Okay. So, okay. Sir, as you said, you know, maybe if demand is strong then we can start, you know, maybe phase two by next year. When it will, it is going to commence then? If we start by next year, it should take about 15 to 18 months to begin to commence production from whenever we start. This is a greenfield kind of an expansion or is it a brownfield? Brownfield. It's the phase two of the total expansion. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. I take this opportunity to thank everyone for joining on the call. I hope we have been able to address all your queries. For any further information, kindly reach out to us or Strategic Growth Advisors and investor relation advisor. Thank you once again. Thank you. On behalf of Oriental Carbon and Chemicals Limited, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.