Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q3 FY24 earnings conference call of Oriental Carbon and Chemicals Limited. This conference call may contain certain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Akshat Goenka, Promoter and Joint Managing Director of OCCL. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good morning, and a very warm welcome to everyone. Along with me, I have Mr. Anurag Jain, CFO, and SGA, our investor relations advisors. We've uploaded our results and investor presentation for the quarter and nine months ended 31st December 2023 on the stock exchanges and company website. Hope each one of you had a chance to go through the same. For the quarter gone by, our revenues have declined. The decline can be attributed to several factors, including the diminishing realizations of insoluble sulfur, owing to reduction in input costs, coupled with weakened demand and intensified competition in the market. While in the short to medium term, the situation is challenging, primarily due to excess supply in the market, the long-term industry outlook for insoluble sulfur remains promising, driven by the anticipated growth in the automotive sector. As the demand for high-quality tires continues to escalate, the requirement for premium grade, raw materials like insoluble sulfur is poised to rise accordingly. IS plays a pivotal role in the vulcanization process, ensuring the durability and performance of tires across diverse driving conditions. With consumers placing increased emphasis on safety and longevity in their vehicles, the demand for top-tier tires is expected to intensify, thus increasing the need for IS. OCCL has always had a strong vision for sustainability. Further emphasizing, we are happy to share that during the quarter we have invested to participate in a group captive solar power scheme in Haryana through an SPV. This partnership would lead to reduced energy costs while contributing to a cleaner environment. For this brief update, I'd like to hand over the line to Mr. Anurag Jain to update you on the financial performance of the company. Thank you, Akshat. I will take you all through the standalone financials of the company. First, I would give you a highlight of the third quarter ended FY 2024. Total income for Q3 FY 2024 stood at INR 88.6 crores, as compared to INR 102.9 crores in Q3 FY 2023. EBITDA for Q3 FY 2024 stood at INR 16.2 crores, as compared to INR 23.9 crores in Q3 FY 2023. EBITDA margins stood at 18.3%. Profit after tax for Q3 FY 2024 stood at INR 6.1 crores as compared to INR 10.4 crores in Q3 FY 2023. PAT margins stood at 6.8%. Now, to give you a highlight on nine-month ended FY 2024 performance, total income for 9 months FY 2024 stood at INR 293.4 crores as compared to INR 363.8 crores in 9 months FY 2023. EBITDA for 9 months FY 2024 stood at INR 70.5 crores as compared to INR 73.3 crores in 9 months FY 2023. EBITDA margins stood at 24%. Profit after tax for nine months FY 2024 stood at INR 29.7 crores, as compared to INR 32.2 crores in nine months FY 2023. PAT margins stood at 10.1%. Though revenues and profits have declined due to tough industry conditions, we are confident of our business's long-term outlook. Our expertise and strong position in the global market give us confidence that despite challenges we are. Despite challenges, we are committed to our values and strategies as we navigate through challenges, striving for sustained growth and success in years to come. With this, I would like to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Prachi Sharma from Ace Investors. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good morning. I just have a couple of questions. Number one being, you said that the demand has been sort of weak, so I just wanted to know which regions are we seeing a hit, and when do we expect the scenario to normalize? Secondly, how. You mentioned right now about the energy cost savings. So how much of the energy cost savings can we expect from the- Amol on the conference, she's in the conference. Hello? Hello. Yes. Was I audible, sir? Yes, you are. Yeah, and the last question being: Have we been affected by the Red Sea trade? Have we seen any disruption because of the Red Sea? So I will answer your last question first. Yes, we have faced, we are facing difficulties because of the Red Sea disruption, because in our export, our freight rates have gone up, and also the transit time, because now the ships have to navigate through South Africa. So that is why we are facing issues about it. As far as saving from captive solar power plant is concerned, we expect about 50 lakh units or thereabout to be bought from the captive solar plant in a year, per annum. So that is the amount that we will save in terms of sustainability and also in terms of cost. Your third part point was that which are the regions where we are witnessing weakness? So basically there are two aspects: Europe, there is a slowdown, and therefore the demand has come up, come down in Europe for insoluble sulfur. Secondly, because of oversupply in China, China is dumping material in the Asia Pacific region at lower rates, and that is also affecting our supplies in the Asia Pacific region. I hope I have answered your questions. Got it. Sir, just to follow up on the third question, which was on the Red Sea. So do you see any normalization on that front? Do you foresee that happening in the near future, as in, in the couple of quarters? I hope so, because, international community, the whole of international community is affected, and strong actions are being taken, against the Houthis there. So hopefully this should correct itself in a few months. Got it, sir. This is all from my end. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press Star and One to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Dhruv Mukesh Bajaj from Smart Sync Investment Advisory Services. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible, sir? Yes, you are. Please go ahead. Yeah, sir. So I wanted to understand that what is our targeted product mix, say, 5-7 years down the line? And based on my limited understanding- Sorry, I didn't get your question. Product mix. Targeted product mix between insoluble sulfur and sulfuric division. Since you're already market leaders in insoluble sulfur, and if tire market grows at the, say, 3%-4%, and we are planning to increase our global market share from 10%-12%, then I also think that around 6%-7% volume growth might come. So is my understanding regarding the growth potential in the insoluble sulfur division correct? And how do we see the sulfuric acid division going forward? Yeah, you know, on insoluble sulfur, that is the kind of growth one should expect, around 5%. And, the sulfuric acid is a different thing, because, we expect that we'll be operating, full capacity and selling out full capacity for sulfuric acid. Okay. So now, what is the margin differential between the two products? Well, sulfuric acid is a very low margin product as of today. Earlier, we used to have a good margin, but because of subsidy issues with SSP, most of the SSP plants have shut down. So the margins have shrunk in SA, and both are not comparable because the price points are very different. Sulfuric acid sells for around INR 4,000-INR 5,000 a ton. Insoluble sulfur sells about INR 125,000 ±INR 15,000 a ton, so they are not comparable with each other. Got it, sir. And sir, we earlier incurred heavy CapEx, post which the demand and pricing scenario has worsened in the last two years. So I wanted to know that, what is our current capacity utilization for both the segments, and what is the revenue potential at current utilizations in the insoluble sulfur segment? For sulfuric acid, since January we are operating at full capacity. Okay. That is because of the steam and power which is generated from the plant. We are operating that plant at full capacity. And as far as insoluble sulfur is concerned, currently in, you know, the capacity utilization would be, just give me a moment. It should be about 70%, 70%, 74%, 75%. Got it, sir. Okay, sir, what is the demerger timeline? You've already submitted the filing, so by what time are you expecting this to complete? We're expecting it soon. It's the final stages in the course. Got it, sir. Sir, I really appreciate your decision of demerging the investment business. Now, since you're generating substantial cash flows and the reinvestment opportunities in the core business at the current juncture look limited, so how do you look at the capital allocation going forward? Let us see, what the cash flows are like and cross the bridge when we reach there. Sorry? I said first, let us see after demerger, what the cash flows, cash flows are like for the coming years. We even have some debt that needs to be paid down, and, accordingly, we will take calls at that stage. Okay, sir. Okay, so our reinvestment deposit, I just wanted to understand basically, directionally speaking, will our reinvestment opportunities be more in the current insoluble sulfur division, or do we have some other divisions in mind going forward? No, once the demerger is done, that is only Insoluble Sulfur and nothing else in this, in the demerger, sorry, in the new company. Right, right. Insoluble sulfur and sulfuric acid. Okay, so we planned on remaining only in that particular segment going forward and not diversifying to other segments. I just wanted to understand that. Correct. Correct, correct. In the insoluble sulfur company, that's what we'll be. Sure, sir, that is very helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Khetan from SMIFS Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Sir, my first question was on to the lower capacity addition, which we had done in 2022. Sorry, we cannot hear properly. Can you please repeat? Hello? Sir, is it audible now? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sir, I was mentioning on to the capacity addition of 5,500 tons of insoluble sulfur, which we had done in 2022. So what is the utilization level over there, and have you like, so started to operate the capacity? Because, I think the last quarter we had mentioned that we are, that we are not having any orders for that capacity. So, how is it going over there? So, if you are talking about the plant, the plant is operational. However, currently, as of now, we are operating at 75% capacity. So, if you look at it from that manner, obviously, the capacities are not fully utilized. However, the plant itself is operational. Sir, this 75% is the blended utilization, right? For that capacity only, sir, the 75% number of utilization, so this is for the blended, right? Sir, if you at least speak a little more slowly, Aditya, we can't hear you. Sir, is it okay now? Yeah, yeah, just speak slowly so we can, we can understand. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the 75% utilization figure, so this is the blended figure? Sir, we're not able to hear you clearly. Still not. I think your line is not very clear. Sir, I request you to please use your handset. Hello. Okay now? I'm on speaker. Sir, is it okay? No, it's not okay. Hello? Yeah. Yeah. Sir, the 75% utilization figure, so this is blended, right? So what will be the figure for that plant? This is blended. But one clarification, Anurag is saying 75% going forward. Yes. Earlier it was even lower. Yes, yes, yes. We are currently as of now, we are expecting it to be 75% going forward. Okay. And blended. So the 75% is in the next two years, right? Sorry? Sir, the 75% in the next two years. No, no. We are now, from this quarter onwards, we are at 75%. Okay. This quarter, okay. And sir, sir, you had mentioned on to the oversupply situation in China. So currently, if you can mention, like from a base of 100, so the oversupply is around 110, 115. Any figure like if you can mention? It is very difficult to say because we don't have any reliable or accurate data about the consumption in China and how much the Chinese plants are selling there. What we do know, though, is that, you know, there has been capacity expansions in the last few years in China, and they remain unutilized. So if you ask. if you want me to tell you as a percentage, I cannot give you accurate percentage as well as to how much of that is unutilized. Okay. So, sir, at least like if you can highlight, so this phenomenon of dumping from China, so this will continue in the near term? Well, hopefully once the demand revives in China and in elsewhere, then the pressure on capacity utilization can should come down. At the same time, the Japanese are also expanding, so one really doesn't know what is going to happen. Okay. Okay. Sir, on to the sulfur prices, as you have mentioned, that prices have come down, also like, so the trend is now towards the downward side only, or now we are expecting any sort of a consolidation at the bottom levels or any uptick in prices? No, there is no consolidation happening. Yes. Okay. Talking about sulfur or insoluble? Insoluble. Sulfur, sulfur prices, sir. So, no, raw material or finished product? I'm sorry. Raw material. Okay. Sorry, sorry, Anurag. So in sulfur, though the prices have come down, but now I think they are in the stable stage for the last one or two months, and the short-term outlook is stable prices only. Okay, sir. Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Keshav Garg from Counter Cyclical PMS. Please go ahead. Sir, if you see, then in the past two quarters, from first quarter we did INR 31 crore standalone EBITDA, which is half to around less than INR 16 crore in December quarter. So whereas in last quarter con call, you told us to expect growth in the second half, instead we have got major degrowth. Sir, so question is whether now in third quarter we have bottomed out, or still things are expected to get worse before they get better. Where exactly are we? So my feeling is that it has bottomed out. Bottomed out in the near future. It's very difficult to predict what is going to happen later, but if you are asking me between Q4 and Q3, then Q4 is looking better than Q3. Okay, sir. Great. And sir, also, sir, sir, what kind of volumes have we... Sir, let's say from our peak volume, which we did in FY 2021 or in FY 2021, how much our volumes have fallen from there? No, they have not fallen. I would say that our volumes have been roughly flat for the last two years. Okay, sir. So, whatever sales degrowth we see, it is purely due to realization degrowth, or there is some aspect of volume degrowth, even though marginal? On a year-to-year basis, it's roughly the same. The quarter-over-quarter? Anurag, you have the quarter-over-quarter. Huh? He's asking tonnage de- Looking at from last year, the tonnage has been roughly the same. Sir, I got that. I'm trying to understand that, let's say, in the first quarter, when we did INR 109 crore revenue versus INR 88 crore in third quarter, so has there been any volume degrowth in the past quarter? There has been a volume degrowth in the third quarter, if you are, that is what you are saying, asking, yes. Okay. Okay. From the previous quarter, there has been a volume degrowth, yes. Sure, sir. Sure, but going forward, you are saying from Q4 onwards, you are seeing some kind of volume growth? Yes, we are hopeful of a better volume sale in Q4 than Q3. Sir, as far as the realizations are concerned, what is, in your judgment, where are we? Are they expected to stabilize now, or increase, or further decrease? It's very difficult to say, but, yeah, we, we are not seeing any signs of pricing increasing. Okay. Sir, also, sir, what has been the response in the United States where we had plans to ramp up our market share? So have you made any progress over there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we have got some business, and that is why we are saying that, we are expecting volume to grow up, to go up from before. We have, we have got some business. Obviously, nowhere close to how much we wanted or we expected, but, nonetheless, we have made a start. Sir, everywhere we are hearing China plus one, people want to diversify their supplier base. But here, sir, we are seeing the opposite in insoluble sulfur. So what is the issue exactly? Why aren't- No, sir, you see, China plus one, you are hearing where majority of the industry was dominated by Chinese, and then it became a China plus one story. Here, the Chinese have only recently started entering. So if you actually look at the global market share of the Chinese, it's actually very low. Okay. It's, uh- Sir, sir- What has happened is that the three major suppliers always had capacity to serve the entire market. That market has remained the same or shrunk. The three, the American, Japanese, and Indian suppliers have got the capacity, but the Chinese capacity has been added to the mix. Okay. In short, that is what has happened. Okay. Okay, okay. Sir, so now, and like we are seeing China started dumping in Asia Pacific, so in future, China can start dumping in European markets and U.S. also. So then where, I mean, where do we go from there then? Look, it's very difficult to predict the future and what the Chinese will do and what the view of the customers will be, whether they will allow it or not. So this is something so hypothetical that I would not like to comment on it. Okay, sir. And, sir, is the demerger on track to get completed by, let's say, beginning of FY 2025 or FY 2024 end? We feel so. Sir, so just one request, sir, since we are going through such a severe down cycle, and thankfully our balance sheet is intact, and we are debt-free on a net basis, sir, so please consider a share buyback, sir, because this is the most opportune time to extinguish our shares so that our earnings per share can permanently increase going forward. Sir, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Gurvinder Juneja from Fortuna Investment Advisors. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. My question is about your threat from any substitutes to the insoluble sulfur that is your core market. Are you seeing any significant product emerge that are challenging the use of insoluble sulfur in your core customer base? Currently, there are no viable substitutes to insoluble sulfur which are being manufactured, and we do not see something happening in the near or medium-term future about it. Okay, sir. Thank you. My second question is about signing up new customers and any updates on getting new onboarding, whether Indian or outside. Signing customers and onboarding. No, as I said, that, the cycle for this year is over, and we have onboarded some new customers out of our targeted list. We will continue to be working on onboarding more as we move forward. You know, product is approved, and many customers work is happening on many customers. So now it's about, you know, getting the allocations more than anything else. And it's very difficult to predict on the allocations. All right. All right, sir. Got it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Khetan from SMIFS Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the call. Sir, my question was on to the North America market. As you mentioned— We can't hear you clearly, please. You have to, you have to come on handset and get off speaker mode, please. Hello? Hello. Hello. Sir, you are on mobile phone. Hello, Aditya, sir, we are not able to hear you. Hello. Sir, is it audible? I am on handset mode only, sir. Okay, this is better. Yeah. Sir, I was asking onto the North America market. Sir, any sort of a market share number if you can give, because we are, I believe you used to share that we are planning around 10% of the market share into the North America market. So any number like currently we are standing it? No, no. We are, we don't, we cannot get that number out. Okay. Sir, onto the volume degrowth, and as far as mentioned in this quarter, any figure, okay, like, how much was that, so volume degrowth? See, I'm saying on a year-to-year basis, the volume is going to end up roughly the same. So if you look at it from a year-to-year basis, it's gonna be within, you know, a very just here or there. Okay. And sir, onto the prices as you mentioned, so because of oversupply, so prices are down, are going down. So can we, it could be a good call to take, so these prices would be the new normal, at least for the next one? Sorry, you are saying the prices will be the new normal for? Sir, for the next one. For the next? Sorry, I can't. I got the gist of your question. I can't tell you clearly. I'll answer it based on what I understood. In the near term, the prices are going to be at these levels. It is very difficult to predict when it will change. So for the foreseeable future, prices and margins will be at these levels. Okay. Okay. Got Okay. Got Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saravanan Balakrishnan, an individual investor. Please go ahead. This call is now being recorded. Thanks for this opportunity. The first question is, so what's the current debt as of today? Current? Debt. We expect, I think the current debt today, long-term debt is around INR 70 crores. INR 73 crore. INR 73 crore, okay. INR 73 crore in that record. Are you, like, sort of, looking to nullify this INR 73 crore, sir, or is there any guidance that you can provide on this side? Please repeat the question. Any target guidance on the debt reduction plan? See, the normal debt repayment is going to be roughly INR 20 crore a year. Got it. And the other question I have is on the private investment, sir. So earlier, I think, we have made multiple private investments on Bira and few other companies. So how are those private investments performing as of today? You know, till private investments are not realized, it is very hazardous to, for me to, you know, say this kind of a statement on an open call. See, the list of investments are known to everybody. The date of investments are known to everybody. How these companies are doing is also known to everybody, what are the latest rounds that are happening. So I think people can, can guess how they are doing. Yeah. I try to make a statement like this without realizing the money. I think would be a little bit irresponsible. Yeah. I can understand. Like, the reason I ask this, like, I encountered, like, a gamut of investments in AG Ventures, right? But also like, we are making private investments through Oriental Carbon. So just wanted to know, like, so how is there any correlation or alignment with the groups, like that was the thought process? See, AG Ventures is the brand name. Okay. And as we all know that the company is going to be demerged. So definitely, I would assume that Oriental Carbon & Chemicals Limited would not be an appropriate name to have for an investment company. So AG Ventures is basically the family brand name, and I can assure there is no conflict between. And that is your basic question, if there is any kind of conflict that is happening. Right. I can assure that there is absolutely no kind of conflict, that is happening. But you know, one needs a brand name when one does the business properly, and AG Ventures is the brand name, that we are going to move forward with in life. Got it. Got it. And, like a few quarters back, so I was under the belief that, so there was hiring that's been taking place for Duncan Engineering, right? So is the hiring process complete for the next set of growth for Duncan Engineering segment? Yes. Yes. The hiring process is complete, and, you know, the future looks good for Duncan Engineering and bullish. Got it. Got it. Got it. And, one last question, sir, on the North American front. So there are a few, a couple of customers who, we are not able to engage, few years back, right, due to the capacity that we are not going to cater them. So how is that, shaping up in the NA market? As I said earlier in the call, we have got some. In terms of approvals, we have got a lot of approvals. In terms of allocation, we have got some new allocations, which we have started, you know, dispatching from January onwards. Of course, the allocation is nowhere close to how much we were hoping for or expected, but we have certainly made a start, and we have got one or two new plants in the Americas. And we are very happy to start, you know, have made this start. And hopefully, as we serve the customers better and they get more confidence on us, the relationship can grow going forward. Got it. So typically, like, what's the timeline for this onboarding a customer lifecycle is concerned? Like, any estimate? Is it like, 12-18 months sort of period? It all depends on how badly the customer wants you. Okay. If they don't want you, you will not sell for five years. If they want you, you can start selling in six months. Got it. Got it. Got it. I think, yeah, I think, that's it from me. This insight was useful, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Dhruv Mukesh Bajaj from SmartSync Investment Advisory Services. Please go ahead. Sir, thanks for allowing me a follow-up question. So I just had one question. Like, going forward, post demerger, what are your plans with the investment company? So do you plan on doing more investments in other private entities, or this demerger is happening solely to unlock the value creation? So I think, the answer to your question is both. First and foremost, it is, demerger is very, very important to unlock value and give our shareholders and investors, you know, clean companies to invest in, so that there is no hotspot in which they are investing. So, people who are interested in investments and Duncan, et cetera, can invest there. People who are interested only in insoluble sulfur and, and sulfuric acid can invest there. Now, it is but natural that, the investment business will keep undertaking investments. They could be of a private nature. It could be incubating a new company. It could take many directions. It's purely going to be a company which is going to operate to generate maximum returns for the shareholders. Got it, sir. Sir, so if we plan on doing new investment in that particular division, then how will we get the funding for the same? Like, since the sulphur division is the cash flow generating business currently. So is there a scope for funds getting diverted from manufacturing entity to the investment business? We don't have any- Once the demerger is done, there is absolutely no scope for any kind of funds moving from here to here. Diversion is the last word I would use because it's a very dirty word. So we should not talk about diversion at all. Sorry. Once both the companies are separate, there is absolutely no question of, you know, any kind of fund moving from one company to the other, outside of, you know, things which may be in the normal course of business. This company, let us see how much money it is left with. And don't forget the investments and all of the things that are already invested, they are going to be exited with good returns, and that money will be there to, you know, redeploy it. That it should become a self-sustaining, self-generating business. It should not need external cash flows. Definitely, sir. So I just wanted to understand that if we don't have any major reinvestment opportunity in the insoluble sulfur division, so we will give the excess funds back to the shareholder in the form of dividends or preferably buybacks, right? So as I already said, that in the insoluble sulfur and chemicals business, there is no plan to make any kind of investment in anything outside of insoluble sulfur. So, you know, let us see how things move ahead, what the cash flow comes out. And, yeah, whether we should pay debt first, whether we should give dividend first. So, you know, prudent and suitable calls will be taken. ... Got it, sir. That is very helpful, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Keshav Garg from Counter Cyclical MS. Please go ahead. Sir, just one thing, sir, the investment entity post demerger will continue to hold our promoter stake in Duncan Engineering. Sir, so, and promoters are- I have never said that. Now, you are asking me for advance information. I, I've only said that, it is expected, but it will be decided by the board at the appropriate time. Okay. That Duncan Engineering investment stays with the insoluble sulfur entity or goes to the investment entity? It is logical for it to go to the investment entity, but nothing is confirmed till the last minute. So it will be very- Sure. You know, I cannot make such a statement confirming anything. I would say it is logical and appropriate that the Duncan Engineering share will be in the investment entity. Sure. Sir, actually it does not matter, because the promoter shareholding will remain the same in both the entities. Correct. So my- Even your shareholding, even your shareholding, everybody's shareholding will remain the same. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Exactly, sir. Exactly. Sir, so my point was that, sir, since currently our investment is suffering from a holding company discount, sir, and since promoters are directly holding 25% in Duncan Engineering and approximately 52% in this entity, sir, so if the company distributes the shares held by OCCL in Duncan Engineering directly to the shareholders, so the promoters will directly own approximately over 50%. Are you suggesting that it will dividend out? Yes, sir. Sir, the share, the shares of Duncan Engineering held by OCCL can be directly given to the shareholder. That would be considered a dividend. That way it cannot be just given like that. There is an entire process. Anyway, you see, let this one demerger happen, then what are the suitable calls, when and how they need to be taken, what needs to be done, we will keep taking them. Sure, sir. Thank you very much. Just to clarify that shares and anything cannot just be given like that to shareholders. It is all considered a dividend and subject to dividend tax. So, the whole idea is to unlock value. That is the whole purpose, sir. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, we will keep doing what is in the best interest of all shareholders to, you know, keep increasing our value. Sure, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Saurabh Mittal, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Good morning, sir, and thank you very much for the opportunity. Can you give me some idea on why the fixed asset turnover of the business is so low? I didn't—you're asking about— The reason is because the capacity utilization is very low, and the fixed assets have been already put in place, and we are operating at such a low, you know, capacity utilization, therefore, the ratio is bad. Sir, on the long-term basis also, the fixed asset turnover comes somewhere around 1x. Yeah, yeah. So that is more how it's always been. I mean, it's been a high margin business with low fixed asset to turnover ratio. Okay. So, I wanted to get some idea why that fixed asset turnover is low. Are there separate production lines for different customers, or these are specially designed plant and machinery for, as per your requirement? This is the industry. This is the nature of the industry. This is the nature of the industry, where the product sells at a higher margin, and the reason it sells for a higher margin is because the asset turnover ratio is low. Okay. To make the returns, it has to sell at a higher margin. Okay. My second question would be, what is your distribution channel? Do you directly supply your products to customers, or you first sell to your distributors and then they supply to customers? Majority of our sales is directly supplied. Directly supplied to the customer's plant? Yes, yes. Majority of them, sir. Thank you, sir. That was from my side, and all the very best for the future. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question of the day. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. I'd like to thank everyone for being part of this call. We hope we've answered your questions. If you need more information, please feel free to contact us or ask your, our IR advisors. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Oriental Carbon & Chemicals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.