Ladies and gentlemen, good day and Welcome to Orchid Pharma Ltd Q4 FY2025 earnings conference call hosted by Systematix Group. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please ignore and operate by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Manchanda. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Avira, and good evening, everyone. On behalf of Systematix Institutional Equities, I welcome you to the Q4 FY2025 earnings call of OrchidPharma. We thank the OrchidPharma management for giving us an opportunity to host the call today. We have with us the senior management of the company, represented by Mr. Manish Dhanuka, Managing Director; Mr. Mridul Dhanuka, Whole Time Director; and Mr. Sunil Kumar Gupta, Chief Financial Officer. I'll now hand over the call to the company management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining Orchid Pharma's Q4 Financial Year 2024 earnings call. I'm Manish Dhanuka, Managing Director, and over the next few minutes, I will walk you through our performance for the fourth quarter and full year ended 21st March 2024, and the status of our key growth projects and other developments. In the fourth quarter, we posted a sales of INR 237 crore, up by 9% over the same period last year, and EBITDA of INR 40 crore. For the full year, sales rose to INR 922 crore, as against INR 819 crore last year, an increase of 13%, and the EBITDA was INR 156 crore, as against INR 140 crore last year. We achieved these gains while absorbing a INR 6 crore one-time expense in Q3 for GMP inspections. During the last six months, we were inspected by both European and U.S. authorities, and both the inspections were completed satisfactorily. Besides the INR 6 crore, we also incurred an INR 9 crore operating draft from our antimicrobial solutions division, which was started last year and is catering to the hospital sales business. The last two quarters have been especially challenging in two of our larger oral solid products, and we see no meaningful improvement in the current quarter either. Against this backdrop, our focus has been on mixed management and operational efficiency. Going forward, the pressure on demand and pricing is still there, and expect this year numbers to be a little muted. Turning to the AMS division, the unit closed the year with a team of 70 members, with engagements with over 500 physicians. Although still in its build-out phase, the division was EBITDA negative by about INR 9 crore and is likely to remain a drag for roughly two more years before turning profitable. We are comfortable with that investment horizon because businesses on brand image must be built patiently and credibly. Let me now update you on our projects, 7-ACA projects first. Project construction is going on, and detailed engineering is completed to the extent of 50%. We may be looking at some delay in execution of the project, considering some challenges at the site. We could be looking at the mechanical completion date of December 2026, which is an increase of six months from our earlier estimates. The first commercial product is targeted for March 2027. Coming to our NCE Enmetazobactam, in India, the product is performing better than our estimates, with strong early traction for Orblycef, our brand, and the Sitla partnered launch. At the same time, Electra's insolvency filing in Germany clouds near-term commercialization in the United States and other international markets. We are actively evaluating legal and commercial pathways to safeguard our interests and are in dialogue with our advisors and potential partners. Cefiderocol next. Development and project execution remains on schedule for this project, with the first validation batches expected towards the last quarter of 2026. Commercial launch will depend on regulatory approval in India, but it is expected to be in the second quarter of calendar year 2027. Corporate structure. The National Company Law Tribunal, or NCLT, has cleared the merger of Dhanuka Laboratories into Orchid Pharma Ltd. We aim to complete the legal process within this financial year and expect the combined business to generate a revenue in excess of INR 1,500 crore and EBITDA of roughly INR 175 crore, offering investors a clearer, stronger platform from which to evaluate our progress. Looking to financial year 2026, we anticipate a muted year given continued pricing pressure and the ramp-up of CapEx on the 7-ACA facility. Nevertheless, our mid-team margin aspiration remains intact, supported by volume growth, mix optimization, and disciplined cost control. We also intend to file two to three differentiated testosterone ANDAs for the US market in the next 12 to 18 months, keeping Orchid at the forefront of complex anti-infectives for the coming future. To close, I would like to thank our employees for their dedication, our partners for their collaboration, and you, our shareholders, for your confidence. The journey from rescue to reinvention is rarely linear, but with backward integration, branded stewardship, and focused global filings firmly in place, we believe Orchid is well positioned to create sustainable value while advancing its mission. Thank you for your attention. We are now happy to take your questions. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Sajal Kapoor from AntiFragile Thinking. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Manish, we discovered that these business development activities in the U.S. faced a significant setback because few customers could utilize Orchid's products due to the site limitations, right, as you called out. Is this limitation or limitations, are they related to facility design and the GMP considerations or something less serious? The limitation is not pertaining to our facility. Actually, two of our customers, one in the U.S. and one in India, who was exporting the finished formulation to the U.S., they faced the U.S. FDA setback. So as a customer, they could not buy the product from us. It was not in our facility. It was in their facility. Oh, okay. Right. We are exclusively dependent on those customers to initiate our business development into the U.S. market, right? Yeah. As of now, yes. I mean, we only had the ATF facility, but the new project that we are setting up in collaboration with Shionogi, like under licensing from Shionogi, in which we shall be manufacturing Cefiderocol. We have the opportunity to file ANDAs from here, and also we are trying to work through a CMO, which is US FDA approved, to file our ANDAs from their site. We are progressing in development of our own ANDAs so that we are not dependent on just the customers for the consumption of our raw material. Okay. No, that's helpful. Then looking at the balance sheet and cash flows this time around, obviously, sudden surge in receivables and inventories is causing a lot of cash to be tied up there. Can you shed some light on this? I mean, are we trying to push some sales into the channel inventory, and that's why this sudden surge in receivables, or are these the sales that only went out in the month of February and March? Obviously, we'll have to face because the operating cash flows are down significantly, by the way. Yeah, it's largely the latter only. The sales happened in the last two months, so those receivables should be realized in the next two months. I mean, would have been probably realized by now. The inventory was a little higher because of the pricing pressure. We did not give in to selling at lower prices. As we had ramped up our capacities, in expectation of generating higher sales, we have created some inventory, which will be liquidated over the next few months. Sure. In terms of this pricing pressure, Manish, I mean, clearly, we would have seen that coming given the standard operating procedure from China. The moment they figure out that their capacities are getting up and running, Penji or Window as an example, they play this by the book, really, by squeezing the raw material pricing. All this should have been part and parcel of our original or initial planning, right? Or did this come as a complete surprise? See, my experience as seeing the B2B business is generally cyclical. It runs over a few years. As the demand grows, everybody feels comfortable, and then people ramp up their capacities. For a certain phase of, say, six to eight months, the supply position becomes a little over the demand, and it will stabilize over the next few months. I have seen these cycles of every two, three years over the last 20 years. We are expecting maybe just like we ramped up capacity, having faced two, three good years in the last few years, maybe competitors also ramped up their capacity. No, okay. And then finally, on this AMS division, what is the targeted steady-state ROSI, assuming we break even sometime around FY 2028, and then we build from there? I mean, what is the back-of-the-envelope aspirational ROSI from this venture? We do expect to break even in the next two years because we just launched in the month of October. I would say the last six months were kind of learning for us. Fortunately, we had our own molecule to piggyback on, which gave us a very good head start and a good recognition with most of the large hospital chains. With this learning, we are developing our sales and marketing model, which is differentiated from the traditional one. We hope in this year we should get, I would say, a good growth. Next year, probably, we should be able to break even. The major objective is to market Cefiderocol because this product will come for commercial sales in 2027. We wish to be present in almost all big hospitals so that we can launch Cefiderocol successfully, which will be a very critical molecule for, you can say, last resort antibiotic for the hospitals. If we can launch it exclusively, that will be a big boost to our business. Understood. Understood. Thank you for responding to all my questions. Thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions may press star and one at the chime. The next question is from the line of Viraj Parekh from Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead. Good evening, Manish. Good evening, Viraj. Most of my questions were asked by the previous participants, just a few bookkeeping questions. As we grew like 12.5%-13% in value this year, could you quantify the volume growth? Second would be, I'm seeing a little bit slightly more increase in our employee expenses. Other expenses, I'm assuming there would be some kind of one-off cost. If you could just give me some kind of a breakup of the increase in employee expenses for this year. Yeah. Thanks, Viraj. In terms of volume, roughly 18%-20% growth is there, by the way. To answer your second question on employee, largely, it is a drag due to the AMS where we've hired the team, and the sales have just started. Roughly, practically, you can assume the entire thing of the ninth-row drag is kind of the people cost of AMS division. Right. So the second question would be, please, given the NCLT approval for the merger, and we are expecting a company at an INR 1,500 crore top line and INR 175 crore EBITDA, is this considering the current pricing pressure, or is this an optimistic scenario which we are looking in FY 2026 as something as a whole? This is the merged numbers, Viraj. This is not Orchid individually. This is the merged entity numbers. Right. So I'm asking from the merged entity point of view. Do we see these numbers improving, or are these steady-state numbers as on FY 2025? Given the guidance we are giving muted for next year, how should we look at it at the merged entity level? We have not considered the benefits of the synergies in this. We have just kind of added mathematical addition of what happened this year. The savings from synergies as we merge two businesses would be an additional margin. Sure. Just last two questions if I get in line. You highlighted in your initial remarks that Enmetazobactam India is performing better than your expectations. So it's fine. Can you just elaborate more on the numbers of where we are penetrating and some kind of a margin profile for this product in the Indian market? Secondly, unfortunately, as Electra has declared insolvency, you highlighted that you are talking strategies with your legal team. If we can understand what options are available to us at this point in time and. Yeah. Thanks, Viraj. Unfortunately, this is a public call, so I will not be able to share with you the options. Once we have them legally, we have to figure out our strategy. It is a little too early because the announcement has just come. We are evaluating all the agreements in place. Right now, we do not even have any access to documents from them. It is going to be a long process. The idea is, how do we maximize our return? On your second question, I cannot share any margin profile for Enmetazobactam in India. I can definitely tell you it is better than our blended gross margins as they appear right now. In terms of numbers of expectation, roughly about 10,000 patients' work we have done, while our estimate for full year was 10,000. We have managed to do that in half a year of last year. Understood. Understood. Thank you so much. I'll get back in soon. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rupesh Dharia from Sri Rama Managers PMS. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I have several questions. First, starting with Electra, I have some idea if you can give about we had some royalty due, right, for the last two, three quarters. Have we received that? I mean, in terms of classification, we stand where? We are secured creditor, unsecured creditor, receivable, I mean, receivable party? Where do we stand in terms of classification of OrchidPharma? Yeah. Thanks, Rupesh. On this question, Electra has right now appointed a preliminary administrator. We only have a notice of the process starting. Because they are Germany-based, we do not even know as of now the rules of that system. I will not be able to tell you where we stand in that. In terms of the royalty, the first quarter number we had received, Q2 payments were not received. Q2, sorry, Q2. Q4 of calendar year last year, we received the sales numbers, but we did not receive the royalty amount. For Q1 of this calendar year, which is January to March, we have not even received the sales numbers. We do not know any more details of how much royalty would have been there for that quarter. Okay. Okay. I mean, in terms of licensing agreement with Electra whenever Orchid did, were there some clauses if Electra became insolvent? I mean, or that was completely no clauses were there, and now we have to find a way? Yeah. It's a very good question, Rupesh. Unfortunately, we are still evaluating those options because those agreements are more than 10-12 years old. So we are evaluating all our options. Okay. Okay. And then the second question is, sorry, it's too preliminary for those things. We would like to first understand from the lawyers and then maybe make a statement. Okay. Okay. Okay. We'll wait for that. And then second question is, Dhanuka Laboratories, can you give annual numbers, annual sales, EBITDA, and PAN? Yeah. The sales were INR 506 crore, and EBITDA was around INR 35 crore. Okay. Okay. Actually, I'm looking at the merger notification you sent to Exchanges. Nine months EBITDA itself was INR 39 crore, INR 40 crore, right? So EBITDA in Q4, there was a lot? Maybe I've been corrected. Sir, you said INR 48 crore? 48 crore. Okay. INR 48 crore. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. And in terms of the injectable innovator products, Synergy products, Cefiderocol, I am confused whether the timelines are calendar year or financial year. You said Q4 of 2026 is when the construction will complete. That is December 2026 or March 2026? No, December 2026. That was calendar year. The validation batch was planned sometime around end of calendar year 2026. It will depend on how long it takes for registration in India. I am being a bit optimistic considering the doctors are already importing the product, although it is 10 times more expensive, and using it for patients. I am hoping that DCGI will give us a faster clearance, and we can start selling in September of 2027. Okay. Okay. That's very clear. In India market, maybe, I mean, are you planning to share at least annual numbers? At least either, I don't know, revenue sales or, I don't know, number of prescriptions or something? Yeah. Rupesh, actually, because our license agreement is in public domain, it is a cost-plus model. Right now, we are not sure of the price which [audio distortion] allows us to sell in India. Without that, it will be very difficult to tell the numbers and what is the price elasticity. In terms of potential. Sorry. Let me interrupt you there. I'm asking about Enmetazobactam. Okay. You were talking about Enmetazobactam. Enmetazobactam, I said. Enmetazobactam active in India. In India. I'm asking you in India. 10,000 patients was our plan for the full year. We have managed to reach that in half a year. Is that you alone, or is that you and Sitla combined? Combined. Okay. Okay. You do not see any slowdown in growth or anything for, let's say, two, three years? It's difficult to say what is going to be the increase in the sales going forward, but definitely, since it's doing better than our potential, and it's just launched, we do hope for the next two, three years, it's going to be a very fast-growing molecule for us. Yeah. I can say that the product, whatever the microbiological tests the hospitals have done, they have found the results of the product very good. It is able to solve a lot of issues. A lot of patients were cured, which were not being cured through the first line of antibiotics. The potential seems to be good, and that is where we are investing in our sales and marketing team. I am very positive that if we can market the product properly to its potential, we see significant growth in the next two years. You had indicated that it will remain a significant driver of profitability in FY 2026. No change on that front? In that sense, the MS division will also have a drag because we have already hired a large team of 70 people. I cannot say that it will be the driver of profit, but our purpose is to become a significant player in the Indian hospital segment so that when Cefiderocol comes, we can convince Shionogi and Gufic to give us the exclusive license for marketing as well. That is our end goal because Cefiderocol will become the driver of profit after that. Okay. Okay. Another question is on penicillin. I mean, is there a further price compression, further dumping by Chinese players in quarter four and then two months of this FY 2026? Do end product prices still track to that penicillin prices? I mean, you said in the opening commentary, you do not see any respite. Can we see respite in second half? Yeah. There is a reduction in Penicillin G price, which is leading to the price reduction. Only one product specifically depends on Penicillin G out of our product range. I would not like to comment directly because it will depend on how Aurobindo reacts and how the Chinese react to this price reduction. We do not have a direct visibility of how the prices are moving because we only buy the intermediate from the users of Penicillin, which is Asuka. Let me ask you another way. Next year, FY 2026, I mean, this year, EBITDA margins and gross margins on the base business, non-Enmetazobactam, non-other AMS division, those margins, when will they bottom out? Have they already bottomed out? When will we start seeing improvement? I would expect that the margins have bottomed out because I think margin pressure is there on all competitors. I would not say that margins will go any further down. On the base business, you've been saying between 20%-25%, whatever, will our capacity support that kind of growth, and we'll continue growing the base business at 20% for two, three years? Right. That's still fair, right? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I want to correct you. The base business will not continue to grow at 20% from here. That would include all the other things. So whatever capacity utilization, CapEx which was done in the past, all of those have become operational. Okay? So now. Yeah. I am asking, I mean, non-7-ACA. 7-ACA will come when it will come. Cefiderocol will come when it will come. Enmetazobactam will grow the way we grow. I am asking outside of all this, base, overall. Yeah. Outside of all of that, then there is no possibility of growing at 20% for the next three years. Okay. Is that because of capacity, or is that because we have our market share now is kind of significant? Yeah, to fight more than that, we will have to compromise margins, which we don't intend to do. Then from here, your base business will grow as per the industry? Slightly better, but definitely not what we were doing earlier where there were lots of gaps and inefficiencies where we could have identified. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for answering my question. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Shah from Stern Capitals. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. So I had a couple of questions. Firstly, how insulated will our API cost structure be from this Chinese price volatility after this 7-ACA is fully ramped up? When we have 7-ACA fully ramped up, with respect to 7-ACA, we should be insulated from China. That is always going to be on an arm's length basis, the pricing. Unlike Penicillin G, where the price multiplied by 2-3x in the last few years, 7-ACA prices have been largely stable over the past 12-15 years. We do not see much change in that. Okay. Another question. In the last quarter, you mentioned that the price correction in the top three products has impacted our revenue despite volume growth. Why has there been no diversification from this heavy lens on a few molecules after so many quarters of volatility? The largest products I can take a larger market share. Orchid has the most diverse range of cephalosporins in the entire world. We make more than 30 products, while our closest competitor makes 15. In terms of diversity, any cephalosporin in the world, Orchid probably makes that. I do not think there is any room for diversification. With respect to penetration, if there is a market potential of thousands of a product, I need to take more share over there rather than a product which has only 20 market potential, right? Yeah. Definitely. Just the heavy concentration has impacted. Any reduction in prices can hamper our sales, which we have gone through. It was just a question regarding that. Yeah. Yeah. This will continue to happen. The top three products will continue to remain the top three products over the foreseeable future. Okay. Thanks a lot. Yeah. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, before we take the next question, we would like to remind that you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Aditya from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's a planned CapEx of INR 600 crore for the Jammu plant. Out of it, only INR 40 crore have been utilized. I don't think the plant would be finished by FY 2027. I don't know what's the question, Ardiya. You've made the statement. Do you think the plant would be finished by FY 2027? Yes. That's what we said. Given the utility or given the utilized CapEx of INR 40 crore out of INR 600 crore, I do not see that it is on track yet. Thank you. Land has also not been yet acquired. What is the number that? You see the major expenses happen at the end of, I mean, there's still one and a half years. I mean, December 2026 is still one and a half years away, right? Major expense happens at the end of, I mean, right now, what you would do is you'll just pay 10% advance. INR 450 million means almost all advances have been paid. The machinery delivery will only happen after six months, right? Why would you? One more thing. Sir, one more thing. INR 45 crore, you guys did not correct. Actually, we have spent around INR 120 crore. Okay. Arditya, maybe some clarification in terms of numbers is needed. Sorry to interrupt, sir. Mr. Aditya has disconnected. Okay. Just like our CFO clarified, it is INR 120 crore investment has gone in, not INR 40 crore. Yes. Okay. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Narendra from White House Capital. Please go ahead. Hello, sir? Yeah, sir. Can you hear me? Yes. Sir, can you share some data from the post-marketing surveillance of Enmetazobactam? If it is ready. Because during last panel, we said something it will be available. That is going on. I think we have to share it with the DCGI first before we share it with the public as it's a new product. Okay. Okay. That's fine, sir. Sir, are you witnessing increased prescription repeatedly from the same doctor? Are you witnessing more demand from the hospital where you have supplied it already? Yeah. We are signing doctors to prescribe this quite frequently. We have seen the growth month on month of the product. Okay. Sir, the other question is on reaching the hospitals. Have you reached all the hospitals in the metro cities where in major hospitals where it is being used? Or is there some more hospitals to be covered? We have started in north, south, and west. Not yet started in the east. I think most of the large corporate hospitals, our product has been entered in the formulary. Okay. Sir, another thing which I want to ask is because you have been marketing Enmetazobactam as a carbapenem-sparing agent, right? If you compare the antimicrobial spectrum, it is not as broad spectrum as meropenem, which is commonly used. The price point of Enmetazobactam is higher than meropenem. How does the doctor purchase it? Are they okay with the pricing? The pricing has been kept considering the optimum level between meropenem and other expensive antibiotics like ceftazidime and aztreonam. The purpose of the product is to spare carbapenem for future generations. The doctors do not want carbapenems like meropenem to develop resistance as fast as it was developing. That is the whole purpose of the molecule to be introduced, which can actually replace the resistance of ceftriaxone and ciprofloxacin and aztreonam. That is the purpose. The price point that we have kept here is not actually detrimental that the hospital cannot afford or the patient cannot afford. That is why we have optimized the price in such a way that it is affordable. Yes, it is more than meropenem, but meropenem has more than 200 brands. It faces that kind of a competition. Obviously, every molecule has its own costing. That's why we have discussed, consulted with Cipla, and kept the price point, which is very much affordable. Sir, can you name what are all the antibiotics you have introduced under your AMSP today? We have a large range, all first-generation antibiotics, then all MDR molecules like ceftazidime, aztreonam, tigecycline, teicoplanin. We have a large range of antifungals also. Okay. Thanks, sir. No problem. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Shah from Stern Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks again for the opportunity. I just wanted to go back to a previous participant who asked about the land acquisition. I guess you said it was INR 40 crore, and you corrected him by saying it's INR 120 crore. I just wanted to know, on the balance sheet, the current capital work in progress is about INR 65 crore. Maybe there's some sort of balance sheet anomaly, maybe, I'm guessing? Gupta, can you answer that? How much of that is advanced, which will not be in CWIP possibly? Actually, that CWIP will not OrchidPharma Ltd balance sheet. It is in subsidiary balance sheet. Oh, okay. Got it. So I guess it's capitalizing the subsidiary. Yeah. Yeah. If you see our subsidiary balance sheet of OBPL has been made. If you see the investment in there, just now I checked it, it is more than INR 120 crore, INR 124 crore, right, the price calculation. Oh, okay. Maybe because I was saying there's a subsidiary that we have, it's a wholly owned subsidiary. I guess that. Yeah. That is the correction. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe along that line, it was clearer that. Thank you. Thank you for the rectification. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Richard Choudhury from Systematix Group PMS. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Now that we see that the 7-ACA project has been delayed more, have we got any communication from the government side? How do we see it as a risk? Like I have highlighted earlier, we have been in constant communication with the government. We update them on a quarterly basis what is the status of the project. We also have an application with them to extend the date of the letter that they have provided us. Like I have alluded on the earlier call, they have always given us the comfort that, "Don't worry, we are there with you." Unfortunately, they have not given anything in writing. My understanding is they have not given this in writing to us or to Aurobindo, who was also two years late, or any other PLI player. They are launching new schemes, and they are in full support, which is also evidenced by their actions in constant support to us, writing to Jammu government to help us in faster execution of the project. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vishal Manchanda. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Sir, just a clarification on this delayed timeline. So we'll start commercial production in December 2025. Is that right? Mechanical completion. Maybe production, I'd say, March or April of 2027. Okay. So around that time, we'll start commercial production, first quarter of FY 2027. March 27 would be FY 2028. Last quarter of March 2028. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. A significant delay. Are we kind of trying to hedge this by doing scale-up alongside and maybe so that we do not waste time? Once we start commercial production, we will also face challenges in scale-up. Are we kind of trying to do something alongside so that the scale-up challenge is reduced? Some of the actions that we are taking is besides our pilot plant in Chennai, which was at a very small scale of 10 liters, we are scaling up there to the extent of 1,000 liters. A 100 times scale-up from where we are today before we commercialize in Jammu. That should help us mitigate those risks. Like I've said in the earlier calls, learning from the experience of other fermentation PLI players, it takes a long time. Aurobindo has unlimited resources. We are very small compared to them. They have not managed to stabilize in 15 months. There could be delays on commercialization to Pulduracti. Right. I believe a fermentation unit of this size is probably, this will be the second after Aurobindo's Penicillin G plant. I do not think we have seen a fermentation unit of this size in India as of now. I mean, we have faced challenges, but there are learnings. We feel it is a complicated engineering. It is better to do things right than rather hurry up and end up in trouble at the time of commercialization. There have been some learnings, and we are trying to correct those and do the things right first time. That is what I would say. All right. Just on are we kind of so we are facing pricing pressures, but can we deliver volume growth, say, meetings volume growth next year? Do we have the capacity to deliver that? Yes. We have the capacity to deliver that. Like I've said earlier, we don't want to be price leaders. We will not strive for higher volume growth at the expense of our profit and pricing. Of course, we will have to compete with the market. It's a balancing act. Maybe we'll know in a couple of quarters how things are. Okay. And. I'm able to make a statement. Obviously, every businessman tries to optimize between price and volume. Obviously, we try to find newer revenues, newer markets where we can get a better margin and then try and optimize between how much to sell at what price. You can't always predict how the competitor will react. Yeah, we do have capacity, and we are trying to diversify our mix so that we neither compromise on the volume of sales nor on the bottom line. When it comes to the U.S. market, I think none of the Indian players are currently supplying sterile cephalosporins to the U.S. market. I just wanted to understand, as we stand today, is there a differential tariff? Is China facing a tariff for their products in India for sterile cephalosporins? Does this give Orchid an opportunity? I think that mostly it's the Finnish formulations of generic products that's going into the U.S. If my understanding is correct, as of now, there's nothing in pharmaceuticals. I think there is no differentiation between duties from India because pharmaceutical is still on hold, I think. Okay. Are we seeing any opportunities for Orchid to supply to the U.S. in the near term, one or two years? Are there any efforts in place and whether these can be monetized maybe in the next one or two years? I don't think in the next two years it would be possible because, I mean, either we will start from our formulation unit that we are setting up or through a third-party CMO. That takes two, two and a half years at least for the registration process. As an API supplier, if not as a formulation player? There is no, Vishal, there are no API buyers, actually, to sell to. There is a staging. There is a possibility. Some development work is going on, but we would be not in a position to commit because it will depend how fast they move their registration. There are two customers who are registering our product who have now once again taken the API, and they are registering. These are innovators, or these are generic players? Generic players. Generic players. Okay. Okay. We have not recognized any royalties from Electra this quarter because we don't have the numbers. Correct. No, we don't. Okay. I think that's all from my side. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Dear investors, I thank you very much for your time. As I always say, we take pleasure, and we take a lot of learning from your questions. If there are any further questions, we'll be happy to answer on the email. Thank you once again for joining this investor call. Thank you. On behalf of Systematix Group, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. I'm Neemuna. This connects you now.