Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Piramal Enterprises Limited Q1 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on your telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Singh, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you. Over to you, Mr. Singh. Thanks, Mira. Hello, everyone. I'm pleased to welcome you all to our Q1 FY24 earnings conference call. Our results material has been uploaded on our website. You may like to download and refer to them during our discussion. The discussion today may include some forward-looking statements. These must be viewed in conjunction with the risks that our businesses face. On the call today, we have with us our Chairman, Mr. Ajay Piramal, Mr. Anand Piramal, Director, Piramal Enterprises and Piramal Group, Mr. Uptein Jhaweri, Group President, Piramal Enterprises, Mr. Jairam Sridharan, MD, Piramal Capital and Housing Finance, Mr. Yash Nadkarni, CEO of our Wholesale Lending Business, and the CFO of our company, Ms. Upma Goel. With that, I would like to hand over the call to our Chairman. I would request him to share his initial thoughts. Thank you. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Welcome to our earnings conference call. Our Q1 performance is in line with our commitment towards building a large, diversified, non-banking financial company. I would like to discuss how we have successfully delivered during the quarter, reflecting our strategic focus. Our total assets under management stood at INR 63,938 crore. We have significantly improved our retail wholesale AUM mix to 55/45, from 34/66 in Q1 of the last year. Our retail AUM witnessed a 57% year-on-year growth to INR 34,890 crore, from INR 22,267 crore in the first quarter of the last year. Quarterly retail disbursements grew at 132% year-on-year to INR 5,700 crore, from INR 2,460 crore in the Q1 of FY23. Our wholesale 1.0 AUM reduced as per our strategic plan by 38% year-on-year to INR 26,000 crore, compared to INR 41,655 crore in the first quarter of the last year. The wholesale Stage 2 and 3 assets reduced by 34% quarter-on-quarter to INR 4,200 crore from INR 6,374 crore in Q4 of FY23. We have built a wholesale 2.0 AUM worth INR 3,045 crore across real estate and corporate mid-market lending. Our GNPA ratio reduced to 2.8% from 3.8% in Q4 FY23, and our NNPA reduced to 1.5% from 1.9% in the Q4 of FY23. In addition to these business highlights, I'm glad to announce that today, the board of directors have approved the buyback of equity shares of the company. This is in line with our consistent focus on long-term value creation for shareholders and effective utilization of capital. This buyback will be of up to INR 1.4 crores number of equity shares of face value of INR 2 each, representing 5.87% of the pre-buyback, fully paid-up equity shares at a price of INR 1,250 per share, aggregating to INR 1,750 crores through the tender offer route. I would like to point out that the promoter and promoter group shall not participate in the buyback. The price of INR 1,250 per share is a premium of 25% over the last closing price of the stock market intimation date. Considering this buyback and dividend paid over the last 12 months, the company has returned a total of INR 3,278 crore, which is 16% of the company's three-month average market capitalization. The entire process is expected to be completed within two months. Here, I would just like to highlight that the promoters and the promoter group not participating in the buyback means signifies the big potential that we look at and the value that is in the shares in the long term, in the future. The promoters are fully committed to ensure that your company performs in the future as well. The capital allocation strategy aims to combine investing in our core business and returning excess capital to shareholders. With this, I will now ask my colleagues, Jairam and others, to speak on our various business segments. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Friends, you've, you've seen in, in our, in our numbers, some of our business performance in, the various businesses. Let me start with retail lending. Our disbursement yields in retail lending improved to 14.7% from 14.2% last quarter. Our average disbursement ticket size was at INR 10.3 lakh in the, in the quarter. 78% of the AUM in our retail business is in secured loans, consisting of housing loans, a lab, and other secured loans, primarily used cars. In in the secured offerings, the average CIBIL score of our customers is at 738. We are also witnessing strong growth in our unsecured loan offerings through multiple form factors and through various channels. We have served over 11 lakh customers so far, with an average CIBIL score of 765. As we continue to expand our retail lending business, we are also investing in manpower, branch infrastructure, technology, and analytics in our retail business for future growth. During the quarter, we added 19 new branches, which became disbursement active. With that, we today have a network of 423 conventional branches and 136 microfinance branches across the country. We serve 587 districts across India, over 25 states. Our customer franchise now stands at 3.3 million, with an acquisition of 3 lakh new customers during the course of the quarter. I'll request my colleague, Yash, to talk a little bit about the wholesale lending business. Hi, good evening, everyone. On the wholesale lending side, we generated over INR 2,431 crore of net cash realization during the quarter, through accelerated repayments and resolution proceeds of wholesale 1.2 portfolio, in line with the provisions on these assets. We continue to focus on resolution of stressed assets, which will moderate the wholesale book in the short term. A dedicated team is involved in monitoring and executing the resolution strategy for complex recoveries and enforcement, aim to improve recoveries and monetization of assets for the following quarters. This quarter as well, we concluded sale of certain wholesale loans, including loans acquired from DHFL, through 2 separate ARC transactions. In these transactions, we received cash worth INR 316 crore, and issued SRs worth roughly INR 2,000 odd crore after 62% markdown. Note that various SR transactions completed have been appropriately provided for, for the quarters. With this, SR outstanding stood at INR 5,369 crore for the first quarter of FY24, of which 30% has retail loans as underlying assets and the remainder 70% wholesale. We expect our SR portfolio to reduce in the future via a combination of sales, enforcement, and collections at our carrying value. We are also focusing, as you know, on building a high-quality wholesale 2.0 EM, where, wherein, we have built wholesale 2.0 EM of about INR 3,000 odd crore by adding INR 253 crore of loans during this quarter. We will further build on this book in a calibrated manner while capitalizing on market cap. The average ticket size is around INR 165 crore for real estate and around INR 53 crore for corporate mid-lending, corporate mid-market lending within the wholesale business. I'll just hand over back to Jairam again. Yeah, well, I'll now request, our CFO, Upma, to walk us through our financial performance and give us a quick overview of the liability side of the business. Upma? Thank you, Jairam. Our profit after tax for Q1 FY24 stood at INR 509 crore, led by gain of INR 855 crore on sale of Shriram Finance Limited stake. We sold 8.34% stake of Shriram Finance Limited for INR 4,820 crore at INR 1,545 per share. While our operating costs has improved quarter-on-quarter, it has gone up on five FY23, primarily on account of scale-up of cities business and our investments into the tech platform. Our annualized credit costs reduced to 1.1% from 1.9% in Q4 FY23. We maintain a strong consolidated network of INR 30,844 crore for Q1 FY24, with capital adequacy ratio of 34.3% on consolidated balance sheet. We maintain a strong liquidity with cash and liquid investment of INR 9,613 crores. On the liability management side, we continue to focus on diversifying our borrowing mix, including securitization. The fixed floating rate debt mix has improved to 57 versus 43, fixed 57 and floating 43, and we continue to see further improvement in the next few quarters. Our cost of borrowing has improved to 8.6% from 8.8% in Q1 FY23. Our AM is well matched with positive gaps across all buckets. To conclude, the performance of the company in Q1 FY24 strengthens our confidence on the company's progress towards a diverse, multi-product, resilient and sustainable financial services business. We remain focused on optimizing our capital allocation and generating an appropriate return on capital. I would now request Jairam to. Yeah, before we open up the floor for questions, there is one item which I want to clarify on, which, which many of you might have some questions on, which is on the, on the goodwill side, where you saw a goodwill entry of about INR 268 crore in INR 278 crore goodwill write-off during the course of the quarter. Just to give you a little bit of context on this, this is related to transactions that happened back in 2014, where the company set up some funds to make investments in the real estate space. Over the years, those funds have had some challenges, and the fund period has also now completed. What we did this quarter was to clean up that part of the balance sheet through this book entry. There is no cash flow associated with this. It's an, it's part of the intangible. We thought in the spirit of cleaning up the balance sheet, those INR 278 crore, you know, getting rid of that, this would be the right timing. With that, the total amount of goodwill left on the balance sheet for us on a consolidated basis is a mere INR 2 crore. Essentially, all such entries have been resolved and taken care of during the course of this quarter. That's one entry that might have been less obvious to some of you. Just wanted to provide that input. With that, I'd like to open this up to all of you for for questions that you might have. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Avinash Singh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good evening. A few questions. The first one largely on asset yields. Two parts to it. One, if you can help explaining that your overall asset yield that has dropped sharply, around to 1.3% sequentially. If you can just explain some of what is the underlying modality that sort of brought this asset yield down to 10.6%. Related to yield only, on the Wholesale 1.0, I would expect a reasonable amount of the book would be kind of on floating basis. If I were to look at the overall wholesale yield, that's 9.4%, and your Wholesale two yield is close to 13 odd%. That reflect that Wholesale 1.4 yield is like 9 odd%. I mean, when those sort of affect all these, floating loan that will be repriced, and I mean, for how long this sort of because it's 9% yield on wholesale book that, you know, looks very, very low. That's all, the question is. I will have a follow-up question later. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for your question. See, the main part here, there are two important things here that you should, that you should recognize. The first is the, the, the fact that the entire AUM is not interest earning, and we've made some separate disclosures during the quarter. If you see our earnings presentation, you will see some disclosures on the, the stage one book and, how that splits up by, is interest earning, versus not. Page 27, if you see, this is a new disclosure that we have put out, just to clarify this point. As we are creating some of these security receipts, between security receipts and some of the other assets which are non-interest earning, you will see that the proportion of non-interest earning assets on the wholesale AUM has increased during the course of the quarter. What that does is that, if when you look at interest income as a proportion of AUM, that metric does fall, even though nothing has changed on the loan part of the book. It's just that some interest earning assets on loans have gone to fair value side, assets of SR, et cetera. Now, over time, as those non-interest earning assets come down and and disappear, you will start seeing the the interest, interest income, true interest income start to reflect. It's not as if the interest earning assets are sitting at 9%. There are no 9% assets on the book. It is just that as a percentage of AUM, because of this dynamic, you're seeing that, you're seeing that, you know, 9 and a little bit. That's the main dynamic that's sort of going on there. There are a couple of other smaller things in the, in the quarter, in the form of a little bit of interest reversal, a little bit of increase in interest expense over the last quarter, but those are more minor compared to this major dynamic that has happened here, and that's why we've put up this new disclosure on slide 27. Yeah, thank you. clear. A follow-up question is on, you know, one sort of a disclosure or note to accounts that comes, the potential tax assets that currently around, I guess, INR 4,200 crore. So is there some sort of a timeline or clarity by when sort of you'll be in a position to either sort of, take it into your books or, I mean, is there some sort of a process, any timeline on that, that potential tax asset of INR 4,200 crore? All matters related to taxation, we have to wait for communication from the tax authorities. We do not want to presume anything on our part. Let's see, over the next over the next two quarters or so, if we, if we hear about the past taxes and if some of our submissions are all accepted, then we'll be in a place to start bringing those onto our balance sheet. It is not for us to dictate timing here. It's for it's for the taxation authorities to decide that. Okay. If I can just one more follow-up. If you can provide some sort of a consolidated capital adequacy post this buyback. I can see sort of a standalone capital adequacy given as 38% odd post the buyback. What will be the consolidated number? That's currently 34% post this buyback. It's approximately 31%. It would be approximately 31%, were we to go to the full extent of INR 1,750 crore. Got you. Got you. Thanks. Thank you. All the best. Thank you so much. Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Abhijit Tibrewal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, and good evening, everyone. First of all, thank you, Mr. Piramal and Jairam and the rest of the team for improving the disclosures. Really is going to make life a whole lot easier for you as a management as well as for us. A couple of questions that I had. First things first, out of this, this INR 4,700-4,800 crores that you have received from the stake sale, you've already announced INR 1,750 crores being used for the buyback. What is the thought process around kind of utilizing the remaining money, given that I think all of us acknowledge we, we remain overly capitalized. Are we at least, I mean, looking at some, some M&A opportunities? If we, if yes, in which product segments are you kind of looking at those opportunities? Thanks for the question, Abhijit. Thanks for appreciating the improved disclosures. Our colleagues in the IR team, and Rupen, our senior leader in charge of the space, have been working very hard on that, and I'm glad you noticed it. On your question on utilization of the proceeds from Shriram. See, there are... We, as we've been saying in the past, there are three ways we could utilize money from Shriram. One is organic growth, the second is some sort of return of return to shareholders, and the third is inorganic. The first two continue. I mean, clearly, you've seen us take the steps with respect to returning some capital to shareholders through the buyback, proposal that we have, that we have in front of us. On your question on inorganic, if you, if you've tracked the Piramal house over the decades, you know that Piramal is very comfortable with using M&A as, as, as a growth engine and adding value to acquired assets. It is something that we continue to be interested in. We have been active in the market, and we have been looking at transactions that have taken place. Unfortunately, none of them have cleared because of pricing considerations. Needless to say, some of it stems from the fact of where our stock itself trades and hence, kind of the currency that we have to work with. Some of it does reduce some of your optionality, but we are keenly looking at looking at potential M&A opportunities. The kind of M&A that we'd be interested in is stuff that is that is kind of very similar to businesses that we have chosen for ourselves. It could be in spaces like small business lending, microfinance, gold. Some of these businesses which are in the Bharat market and in the retail space, those are businesses we like, and we are we continue to look at various options in that in that space. Thank you, Jairam. Just, just a question for, for Yash. Yash, what I kind of want to understand is, a couple of things you, you talked about in your opening remarks about two transactions that you've done on the wholesale side, where you've also sold the wholesale book which you acquired during the DHFL acquisition. Two sub-parts to this question. Now that we are seeing accelerated reduction in the wholesale 1.2 book, with these SRs now, how should we kind of look at the returns essentially from a standpoint of over what time horizon can we expect recoveries for these SRs to kind of go away from our balance sheet? If and when they do, will there be more haircuts that you are expecting, given that you've already fair valued, when you gave out these numbers on SRs? Lastly, what I kind of want to understand is, now that for the last two quarters, you've been guiding that there won't be any more negative surprises from the wholesale book, either in terms of, I would say, recognition or for that matter, haircuts or credit costs that will be required. Are we now in a plane where we are sitting in terms of stage two and stage three? The more comfort that I wanted was more on the stage one, which is the earning assets of about INR 18,000 crore, which is sitting in wholesale stage one. Are we now, reached, reached a point in time where we are much more confident that there will be no such surprises, in the subsequent quarters? The answer to your third question is yes. There, we don't think there would be any surprises. We do think that we, we have the recognition and provisioning firmly behind us. Where we find ourselves right now at is, deep in the, the, recovery mode. The transactions that we have done, in terms of the ARC deal this quarter, as well as INR 6,000 crore of book reduction in the previous quarter, is all in line with that strategy, right? What you actually see is only part of the recovery effort that's going on, and we do expect that the recovery, effort will continue to intensify as we go from here. As far as the, as far as the, provisioning against the book is concerned, we do actually firmly believe that we already, already, have that behind us. Therefore, going forward, the recoveries will be in line with what we have on our balance sheet. As far as the timelines are concerned, it's difficult to exactly predict by when we would end up actually cleaning up the SRs as well as stage two, stage three books. Efforts are on. By the very nature of the underlying assets and complexities involved in recovering some of the assets, our expectation would be, once you rely at least a few quarters, for things to actually get resolved, and see the end effect. That's the answer to your first question. Second question in terms of haircuts, I already said that, that is behind us. Thank you. Yes, just one more technical question here. When we look at SRs on the balance sheet, will we also be required to do a mark-to-market every quarter? Essentially, the SR number that we will see every quarter will incorporate the kind of recoveries that you are seeing, at least in terms of the SRs which are currently sitting on your balance sheet. First of all, the SR value, as it is on the balance sheet, is at a significant discount or clean value, right? We have taken enormous haircuts. Well, enormous is a subjective term, but quite a material haircut in percentile terms. The SRs that we completed this quarter were at 63% haircut on the claim value. I just want to say that as the first point. In terms of valuation, we need to get the fair market valuation done every year, and it's, it's only one way, which is the value can go down, but it can't go up on our P&L, until and unless a full recovery happens. Got it. Thank you so much. Best wishes to the committee. Thank you. Thank you, Abhijit. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Asset Managers. Please go ahead. Hi, I had one accounting type question. I just wanted to understand this net loss on the recognition of financial instruments of INR 1,482 crores and impairment reversal of about INR 1,172 crores. How does that work? I would encourage you to actually look from an investor deck perspective. We have talked about a low loss provision of INR 179 crore. I think that is the best, the summary view of everything that is, you know, that's gone on. Yeah, okay, actually, let Uma talk a little bit about the 1,172, and then we'll I'll kind of get back to the INR 179 crore and how to think about it. In my view, that's the best way to think about it. Less other stuff just adds up to that INR 179. INR 179 is the best way to actually look at our credit card. Uma, you want to explain? Actually, if, if that's the case, we'll just leave it there, then, you know, I can take it offline because it'll just take time in the call. Sure. We can do that. The other question was on the wholesale portfolio. Is it fair to say that the cash that you've recovered is from the run-off of the stage one portfolio? Virtually all the ARC sales have come only in terms of security receipts, which is why the amount has increased from INR 2,017 crore to INR 3,755 crore. Is that fair to say? I would say a significant part of reduction is due to the SR transactions in stage 2 and 3, and we got the recoveries, small amounts in stage 2 and 3 in terms of the cash recoveries, but also in stage 1. Okay. One thing I'd also remind you is that the SR themselves have a 15% cash component, so that's, that obviously is, is, is, only 85% gets converted into, into cash. But your point is broadly correct. Okay. I can also say that this is, you know, from an SR creation standpoint, some of the assets that we wanted to resolve through the SR route, a large part of that story over last quarter and this quarter, we have, we have, we have done. Kind of the, you know, in the future, the kind of resolution strategies that you would see, would be a slightly different, different nature. The big, steep increase in SR that you have seen over last quarter and this quarter, you're not likely to see that, you know, continue, continuing from here on. I would also add one more, one more point, right. Just to, just to put things in perspective, the SRs that you see right now on our balance sheet is a very small portion of the overall recoveries that we have done in the last few quarters, right. That's a very important point to note here. Because there are a lot of other strategies which, which don't show up on the balance sheet. For instance, last quarter or last year, we actually did a pretty significant asset sale, which, in one, one transaction, allowed us to bring our book down by INR 1,800 crore, just, just as an example. There's similarly a portfolio of NP assets that we sold last quarter for cash consideration, and those efforts are going on. As I said, while answering the previous question, I think recovery of the SRs and co- converting that into cash will certainly go on as well over the next few quarters. Okay, if I can sneak in one last question. There is one thing with stage one land receivables. Essentially this is, this is assets with good cover that you expect, where there are no cash flows, but you expect good recovery. Is that why it's classified as stage one, the INR 2,952 crore? Yeah, this over time, we think that's where it will lead to. Right now, we are not really focusing on monetizing it. This was, this asset is on our balance sheet as a result of debt to asset swap that we did a few years ago. There is deep embedded value in the underlying asset, but the recovery of it is something we'll focus on as we go from here. Okay, great. Thank you, and good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Participants, you may press star and 1 to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Kunal, from DSP Asset Managers. Please go ahead. Hi, I have a question on the PNL side. If you look at your PNL, we have around eight and AC close- Sorry, your voice is not coming clearly. Can I request you to speak through the handset? Am I audible now? Slightly okay. I just wanted to ask that on the PNL side, you have around INR 900 crore of one-time gain on account of a stake sale, and on the expenses side, again, you have around INR 300 crore of goodwill write-off. If we just knock that off in this quarter again, we would have seen no profit or at best, just a marginal amount of profit. When are we expecting us to return back on the profitable growth trajectory sort of? Hey, that's a fair back-up envelope calculation, and that's an appropriate representation of the quarter that we have had. I will point out that if you knock off extraordinary items from our PNL, let's say in the last financial year, you would have seen the core operating profits to have been negative. From that negative position, we have improved to a sort of a break-even sort of position during the course of this quarter. Our expectation is, and needless to say, this is not a situation that that we are that we are satisfied with. We need to get We need to do a lot better than where we are at, and we are fully seized of the matter. You know, give us a couple of quarters, you will see the operating income, kind of net of operating expenses, et cetera, all start to pick up as well. We are just on the cusp, over the next sort of quarter or 2, you will start seeing us firmly move into positive trajectory. As I said, we have moved from negative to kind of zero. You will start seeing us move to positive over the next, you know, quarter or 2, and move steadily towards a 4%, a 4% pre-tax ROA over the medium term, as we have spoken about in the past. Sure. Thanks, and all the best. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star 1 to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Afzal Mahmoud, individual investor. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks for the opportunity. I have the question for Mr. Piramal. Sir, greatly appreciate the buyback decision. My question was, why would the promoter group not infuse capital to raise the promoter stake beyond 50%? Because this will increase the trust and confidence in the business model that you're pursuing. In fact, this is a buyback, so the promoters cannot infuse capital. It's the other way around. The capital is being returned to shareholders. Because the promoters have confidence in the business, we are not taking part in the buyback. In that sense, actually, our shareholding will go up. Yeah, yeah, there is another option, you can raise your promoter stake by infusing capitals via warrants and all. Why wouldn't you do that? We are doing what is the right thing for the business. Yeah. Okay. my second question is to Mr. Sriram. Sir, how long will this asset resolution phase last, and how much will be the credit cost beyond the resolution phase? Hey, the, you know, we have mentioned-- we've been mentioning over the last couple of quarters that in the in the multiple phases of resolving an asset quality cycle, we have we have done the recognition bit, we have done the provisioning bit, and we are now in the resolution phase. The resolution phase does tend to be long, and it, it needs to be seen in the context of what needs to be done operationally on an asset-to-asset basis to turn it around. So while we expect no further hits on P&L, operational turnarounds do take do take time. Yash mentioned earlier in the call that, that think of the resolution process in terms of a few quarters, not weeks or months. Okay, how much will be the credit cost, like, right now, and then, say, beyond a few quarters, beyond the resolution phase? This quarter, you saw a, a net credit cost of 1.1%. We have said in the past that the kind of business that we are building is 1.5%-2% credit cost type of type of business. We don't have a specific guidance out for the year or for next year, but directionally, that's that's the kind of business we are building. Okay. One last question. Jio Financial Services also get into lending business, so will Piramal compete with Jio? Because this is part of extended family. I think you should wait to watch what happens with any new and large emerging competitor. We have a lot of respect for a lot of work that happens under the banner that you spoke about. We'll have to wait and see, as as two separate listed entities, we... There are things that we will that we can do and cannot do, and everything has to be as per as per norms of SEBI, et cetera. So we will, we will, we will take things as they come. As of, as of now, we have markets that we are focusing on and businesses that we want to grow in, and we will try and do our best and grow. India is a large market and lots of people can build great businesses here. ... Okay. Thank you, sir. One last question, if you can allow me. The retail AUM, so the percentage of unsecured loans is about 10%. In the future, say, two or three years down the line, how much will be that unsecured loan as a percentage of total AUM, retail plus wholesale? We have said that in the medium term, we would like unsecured to be 25%-30% of our of our business. It will be roughly somewhere in that range. We will see. We'll, we'll have to wait and watch what happens to unsecured from a credit risk perspective, and depending on the cycle and how, how it plays out, we will calibrate it up or down. Oh, that's% of total AUM, right? Wholesale- Percentage of retail AUM. Oh, only retail. Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Good luck. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ketan Cheta, a retail investor. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I'd like to know what the status of the land that we have in Andheri. We've not heard any updates in the last few quarters on that one. Would really appreciate if you could share an update on that. The second question that I had is something similar to what has been asked before. In terms of the trajectory of the core pre-operating profit, operating profit, I mean, the trajectory has been actually downward. While, while you did mention that, you know, we will go upwards, but I'd like to know that why the trajectory of the core PPO has been going down in the last few quarters, at least 4 to 5 quarters. Thank you. I think on the Andheri land, as I, as I answered you, one of the previous questions, we have that on the balance sheet. Sir, sorry to interrupt you, but you're not audible. You're sounding distant. Sure. Can you hear me now? Yes. I was just saying that the Andheri land is a result of debt-to-asset swap that we did a few years ago. Where are we at with that? We believe that there is enormous embedded value in that land. However, we are not certain about or specific about the plans that, that we are going to actually put in place to be able to extract that value. We will actually focus right now on sort of resolving the loan book that, that we referred to earlier, and in the midterm, we'll actually find different alternatives to unlock value from the land. There's no material update other than that. As far as the operating profitability of the business is concerned, as I mentioned before, the core driver that you should keep in mind is the proportion of interest yielding assets as a percentage of overall wholesale book. If you see the new disclosure that we have added to our presentation on slide 27, you will see that over the last few quarters, a significant proportion of assets has moved from interest yielding to non-interest yielding as we have worked on some of these resolution strategies. So these were assets that were accruing interest in the past, where we have now stopped accruing interest and have moved them to investment category. That's what drives a large part of the delta that you see over the last few quarters. Since that transition has largely taken shape in, you know, in full, from now on, the growth that you see in the, in, in the rest of the business, et cetera, will start start showing up in the operating profitability, and hence my comment that just give us a quarter or two, and you will start seeing this curve start to move up from the bottom. Okay, thank you for the response. Just one follow-up on the Andheri land again. Sorry to come back on that one. I think, like, you know, in the last couple of years, in one of the calls, it was mentioned that, you know, you are going to develop the land in, like, a couple of phases, and probably one phase was done and the remaining phase was to be done. You would cut the land and so and so forth. Those details were shared. After that, do you mean to say that there is no update on monetizing the land, while those plans were formed at that point in time? No, there is no specific update on that, is what I meant. In the midterm future, we'll find various paths to monetizing this land, including what you just described. However, that's one of the options available to us, and there's no specific plan that we can share with at this point in time. Okay. There's no, no timeline as well, by when you want to complete the monetization? That is correct, sir. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Aditya Gupta, individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Though the retail mix is getting improved in overall AUM, but the total AUM is quite stable since few years. What are the plans for increasing the total AUM? Yeah, this is, it's, you know, you will, you will note, of course, that over the last 5 quarters or 6 quarters, our overall AUM has been roughly the same, but the composition of the AUM has, has now dramatically changed, from, from what it used to be to where we are now, where, as we disclosed before, 55% of the book is retail and 45% is wholesale. As you also saw, the retail book is growing pretty strongly. Now we are in a place where the majority of our book is growing and the minority of our book is degrowing, which means the weighted average will start turning positive. So if you're, you've just got to be patient for another quarter, maybe two, and you will start seeing this math play out. As the larger part of the book is growing and the smaller part of the book is degrowing. The math will just work out in a couple of quarters. Okay. My last question is that, is there any fundraising or like, plans? ... as through NCDs or et cetera? As you know, we just, we just disclosed our share buyback plan, so clearly that's, you know, we're not, we're not planning to raise any, any funds. I, I'll also state that, on successful completion of a, of a buyback program, you know, we cannot be going out to market and actually raising equity for the next 1 year anyway. No, there are no short-term plans to raise any equity. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Vikram Damani from Damani Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, am I audible? Yes. Okay, thanks for the opportunity. I just wanted to clarify one thing. When you speak about stage one land and receivables that are non-interest bearing assets, I see quarter-on-quarter, it's pretty much flat and your gross AUM on a, on a overall level is also flat. Could you then explain why such a sharp drop in the yields and the NIMs? I mean, is, is that the only thing that could explain it? Since that is flat quarter-on-quarter, your non-interest bearing assets, how else would you sort of... Can you throw some light on this, on the drop of the yield? Don't look at it in absolute terms. Look at it as a proportion of the total. I mean, you have to look at interest bearing and non-interest bearing. If the interest bearing part keeps coming down and the non-interest bearing is, is flat or slightly increasing, then as a proportion, the non-interest bearing kind of keeps increasing. The yield on the interest bearing part is not changing, so the overall yields will come down. as a percentage of your overall assets, could you just, because I can't seem to find it on the presentation. Maybe I can take this off offline with you as well. Yes, I feel excited. Yeah. Okay, I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Yash Modi from Ashika Stock Broking. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning, good evening to the team. Just wanted some more clarity on our stake in Shriram General Insurance, Shriram Life Insurance, and our DHFL Life Insurance, 50% stake in that. If, if you could clarify, what are, what are we looking at? Obviously, the public market part of it is done, now these unlisted entities. Yeah, as far as the insurance investment in Pramerica is concerned, we are 50% owners of that business along with Prudential U.S. who owns the other, the rest. It's, you know, insurance is a long-term business. We have a commitment to IRDA to actually stay invested and continue to do what it takes to actually grow that business for a 5-year period. That's a, you should think of that as a, as, as a strategic investment, where we are keen to actually grow the business and bring it to materiality. As far as the Shriram unlisted businesses are concerned, let's see. We will explore various strategic options. There is no particular timeline in mind on, on, on, on what we need to, what, what we need to do here. I, I will assure you that what we will do, we, we will do in such a way, just as we did in the, in the public markets, transaction that we did recently. We will do it, in, in, in a way that is, that good and accretive to all stakeholders involved, in the transaction. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Parth Shah from ET Life. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks a lot for the opportunity and congratulations to the management on the good set of numbers. I just had one small question. In the consolidated financial statements, there is an entry of other operating income of INR 95.46 crores, which I believe is also used to offset the loan loss provisions in the investor presentation, when we are showing a summarized loan loss number of INR 179 crores. Could you just give more details on what that other operating income is? Recovery. Recovery from, from prior, I'll answer. Yeah. This INR 95.46 crores is primarily the recoveries, on account of the Prudential write-off what we have done it last year. Okay. Understood. My last question is on the unsecured book. The 90+ DPD has obviously seen a rise from 1.1% last quarter to 1.6% on the unsecured book. Despite the high rate of growth and AUM increasing, we've seen delinquencies showing some marginal increase. Just wanted to understand on how we are seeing that part of the business and what will be the steady state guidance as far as credit cost is concerned from the unsecured book perspective. Yeah. Parth, that's a good question and a good observation. Yes, you're absolutely right. A large part of this increase is has, has come from our, you know, partnerships businesses. As as we have indicated in the past, a lot of these partnership businesses have have some sort of credit agreements between the originator and and the balance sheet provider. That's the portion in which we have had most of this increase. So while optically it shows up in your delinquency numbers, it doesn't cause P&L impact because it gets covered. If you net off the portion which has some sort of cover of this kind, the the delinquencies during the quarter for the unsecured business have been 90 basis points. It's, it's, it's a good observation. It is, it is true that on a gross basis, we have seen delinquencies increase, but from a P&L impact perspective, we have not seen that. This is a segment that we are very closely watching and will continue to be very careful about in the quarters to come. ...Understood. 90 basis point is what you suggested, which is probably in line with what was there even in the last quarter, so no material spike there? No material, no material thing has happened there. That said, like, there is a lot of growth that's going on in unsecured, we have to be, we have to be careful. We're not, we are not celebrating or calling victory here, like, we have to watch this space very closely. Yes, we are on a net basis at 90 basis points. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my end. Thanks a lot. Thank you Parth, Operator, do we have- Yes. If you don't have any further questions, maybe we can, we can close. Yes, sir, we have one question. Next question is from the line of Abdul Mohammed, individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, one follow-up question. Why was there a decline, QOQ in the quarterly disbursements? In the retail business, there's always a seasonality. Q4 tends to be very high, and Q1 tends to be the lowest quarter in any, in any year. That's, it's just seasonality that you're seeing, nothing else. Okay, next quarter, would you expect similar trend or will it increase QOQ? Abdul, we don't offer quarter-on-quarter disbursement guidance, so we'll see. We'll see. You know, you know, seasonality wise, Q2 does tend to be bigger than Q1, but let's see how it goes. Okay. By what timeline do you expect retail business to be 2/3? Like, 3 more quarters or 1 year? See, we have, when we started talking about the two-thirds, one-third, we said that we will get there, in the medium term, three to four years. We are making a little bit more rapid progress towards that than we had anticipated. Let us see, like, if, if, if we start seeing some credit risk issues in retail, we might slow down, et cetera. It's hard to be, very precise about these things, and it's hard to actually move to a particular target- True. on these things. Right now, the trajectory is strong. If we go on in this trajectory, we will probably reach there a bit faster than we had anticipated, but, but we don't have a specific target in mind. Okay. Thanks, Jai. Thank you. Thank you. As there are no further questions... Sorry, we have a question, sir. Next question is from the line of Vinod Jain from Wells Fargo Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah, my comments are about the insurance business. What are the prospects you see in this business going forward with the JV from Primerica? What about the mutual fund business also? Can something be commented on that? Okay. On, on the Primerica side, see, we've, we, we purchased a 50% stake in, in Pramerica Life, for about INR 1,000 crore, as part of the DHFL transaction. When we purchased, the business, the Pramerica Life entity was, was number 19, in, the, in the leaderboard of, of, of insurance companies, in, in terms of, in, in terms of premium, gross premium. If you see what has happened in the last year, which was the first full year when we had full control, in the, in, in GWP terms, kind of, you know, starting from a super low base, Primerica was the fastest growing life insurance company in the country, and that has continued in, in, in this year as well. We have a very, very long way to go. Currently, we are number 16, 15 in, based on May data, for the year in terms of, in terms of GWP. We have gone up a few ranks on the leaderboard, but we have a long way to go. Our hope and intention is to make this first a top 10 life insurance company as the first milestone, and then we will, and then we will see where we want to go. You also spoke about our mutual fund business. Currently we are not pursuing opportunities in the mutual fund space. We have a lot going on as it is in our, in our core businesses. You know, we will focus on these right now, and we will take other opportunities over time, as, you know, when we have a little bit more management bandwidth to spare. Very well. Thank you. Thank you, Vinod. Thank you, everybody. It has been a very engaging call, and thanks for all your constructive questions, and your interest in Piramal Enterprises. We hope you got all the answers. If you have any more questions, please do reach out to our IR team. The details are there on our presentation and on our website. We'd be happy to take you through any other technical questions or details that you might have. Otherwise, thank you so much for participating, and have a very good evening. Thank you very much. On behalf of Piramal Enterprises Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.