Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Piramal Enterprises Limited Q2 FY 25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Singh, Head of Investor Relations, Strategy and Sustainability from Piramal Enterprises Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Michelle, and hello, everyone. Welcome to our earnings conference call for Q2 FY25. Our results material has been uploaded on our website, and you may like to refer to them during our discussion. The discussion today may include some forward-looking statements based on management's expectations that are subject to uncertainty, and changes, and must be viewed in conjunction with the results that our businesses face. On the call today, we have with us our Chairman, Mr. Ajay Piramal, Mr. Anand Piramal, Director, Piramal Enterprises, Mr. Rupen Jhaveri, Group President, Piramal Enterprises, Mr. Jairam Sridharan, CEO of Retail Lending and MD of PCHFL, Mr. Yesh Nadkarni, CEO of Wholesale Lending, and Ms. Upma Goel, CFO, Piramal Enterprises. With that, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Piramal for his remarks on the Q2 performance. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good evening, and thank you all for joining us today. First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a very happy Diwali and a prosperous New Year. Our financial performance in the second quarter of FY25 tracked the objectives we have been speaking about as part of our transformation in the last few years. In the second quarter, our growth business continued to scale up steadily. Risk was well controlled and operating leverage further improved. At the same time, we continue with the focused rundown of our discontinued legacy business. Let me summarize the key trends in this quarter. Driven by the rising share of the faster-growing growth business, our total AUM growth has been recovering well. In this quarter, the total AUM was up 12% year on year to INR 74,692 crores. The growth book AUM was up 45% year on year and now accounts for 84% of our total AUM. This is up from 34% of the total AUM as in March 2022. Within the growth business, retail AUM grew 8% quarter on quarter and 42% year on year and now forms 73% of the total AUM. Wholesale 2.0 AUM rose by 12% quarter on quarter and 75% year on year to 7,889 crores. Our legacy discontinued AUM now stands at 12,000 crores, which is 16% of the total AUM. We reiterate bringing this book down to less than 10% of the total AUM by March 2025. We have a fair line of sight on the expected reduction in the second half of FY 25 from loans, SRs, and AIF assets through a combination of organic cash flows, refinancing, asset sales, and accelerated repayments. In this quarter, we have reported a consolidated net profit of INR 163 crores. Within this, the growth business accounted for a net profit of INR 130 crores. Increasing share of the growth business, which has a higher NIM, has driven the overall NIM improving to 5.1% versus 4.9% in the first quarter of FY 25. In the second quarter of FY 25, our operating profit to AUM for the growth business was stable at 2.8%. OpEx to AUM was down 10 basis points quarter on quarter and 80 basis points year on year to 4.5%. The further reduction in this ratio would drive future expansion of operating profit in the growth business. Our gross credit cost was at 1.8%, versus 1.6% in Q1 of this year. With normalizing recoveries from the DHFL book, the reported net credit cost was 1.6% versus 1.3% in the first quarter of FY 25. Thus, the PBT to AUM for the growth business stands at 1.2% in this quarter. On the merger between PEL and PCHFL, we have filed a scheme with the stock exchanges. The next steps include approvals from the exchanges, SEBI and RBI, followed by the NCLT process. We continue to diversify our borrowing base, with securitization now at 14% of total borrowings, up from 4% in the same quarter of FY 24. We currently have 27 DA and two co-lending live programs with Axis Bank and the Central Bank of India, who now are our co-lending partners. Following our $100 million social impact loan and our debut $300 million sustainability bond in July 2024, we successfully completed a tap issuance in October 2024, raising an additional $150 million from international capital markets. The tap issuance was oversubscribed 3.5 times, reflecting strong investor confidence. I'll now hand over to Jairam, Yesh, and Upma to discuss our business and financial performance. Thank you so much, Chairman, sir. I'm gonna start with discussion on the retail lending business, and it will be followed by Yesh speaking about the wholesale side of our business. In the second quarter of FY25, our retail AUM grew by 42% year on year, and is now at an AUM of INR 64,737 crores. Our disbursements stood at a little over 8,000 crores, reflecting 29% year-on-year increase. Disbursement yields remained stable at 14.1%. In our fractured mortgage business, which comprises housing loans in affordable housing and loan against property, the business grew by 37% year on year to an AUM of INR 37,500 crores, and now it accounts for 68% of the retail AUM. Our mortgage book has exhibited robust asset quality in the last two years. Currently, the 90-day past due delinquency ratio is 0.5% in our housing business and 0.3% in LAP. Our retail products also demonstrated robust AUM growth, with used car loans up 145% year on year, salaried personal loans up 148% year on year, and business loans up 55% year on year. However, our disbursements in the digital loans business remain constrained, and we were at INR 562 crore of disbursements in the quarter, versus INR 836 crore in the first quarter, and an average of about INR 1,300 crore run rate that we had through FY 24. From peak, this business has reduced by more than two-thirds on a quarterly disbursement run rate basis. While we have been controlling digital loan origination, the use of digital channels in our overall business has seen quite a transformative change over the last year. We've shared a new slide in this presentation, Slide number 10, where we, we have highlighted some metrics on the adoption of our mobile app and of our use of WhatsApp in customer engagement, customer service, and collections. Our mobile app received a significant upgrade, introducing features such as last mile pay disbursal, advanced EMI payments, and third-party products like health insurance. Monthly active users are now on our Piramal Finance app have more than doubled in the last one year. Today, 53% of all the service requests that we get in the company are fulfilled digitally. We also launched a WhatsApp service bot in April that supports eight languages and uses conversational AI, enhancing the user experience beyond traditional menu-driven interactions. This service has seen a sharp uptick in MAU and has concluded service requests and is playing a big part in overdue collections. During this quarter, we also received formal approval from RBI to launch our prepaid payment instrument, Piramal Pay. This happened in October 2024. We aim to provide seamless, secure platforms for prepaid transactions, enhancing accessibility of payments for individuals and businesses in our customer segment. Moving on to asset quality. The overall retail asset quality remains healthy. Slippage ratios and thirty-plus and ninety-plus day past due delinquencies are all running flat, compared to the second quarter of FY 24, though slightly up from the first quarter of FY 25. We believe our diversified multi-product portfolio provides the stability, even as various products undergo their own cycles. Slides number 15 and 16 in our presentation outline the 90-day past due delinquency chart and the vintage risk trends across various product segments. You will see here that digital loans have remained elevated from a risk standpoint. These represent 6% of retail AUM. Within all the unsecured areas, the area where you see the most steady increase in risk is business loans, which in our classification also includes a small microfinance population. The 90-day delinquency trends here, as you will see, have been trending up. The portfolio is also seasoning, so that has got something to do with this, apart from what's going on in the macro environment as well. Within those unsecured business loans, and all loans in general, the sub-50,000 rupee category is where we are seeing the steepest risk deterioration. In our retail business, our total exposure to less than 50,000 rupee loan is less than INR 750 crores. The rest of the products continue to witness benign delinquency trends, but we remain vigilant. Moving on to customer franchise and cross-sell. If you look at Slide number 11, our franchise grew by 27% year on year to 4.2 million. We've been able to capture a significant portion of our customer originations for future cross-sell opportunities. In our unsecured business, we have slowly increased cross-sell penetration to a point where 17% of our unsecured disbursements today happen through cross-sell. We expect to see continued improvement on this metric in the quarters to come. On our network side, we have a network today of 508 full-service branches, apart from 236 microfinance branches. Through these, we serve 608 districts in 26 states. As we have mentioned in the past, our aim is to expand our reach to about 600 full-service branches in the medium term. However, the pace of our branch opening has moderated to about 10-15 branches a quarter, down from 20-30 branches a quarter, which was our pace in prior years. Our focus now has shifted to raising the productivity of our existing network, even as we slowly move towards the 600 mark that we have targeted before. Slide number 12 talks about these very productivity metrics and how they have been improving. As you can see here, we have seen steady gains in productivity among our branches and all our employee base as our branch vintage mix continues to improve. On a disbursement per branch basis, AUM per branch basis, or disbursement per employee basis, you will see productivity metrics steadily improving. In addition to scaling our operations and managing risk, we are equally focused on enhancing profitability. If you look at Slide number 17, over the last multiple quarters, we have consistently reduced our OpEx to AUM ratio in the retail business. This now stands at 4.7% in the second quarter of FY 25, down from 4.9% in the previous quarter, and 6.5% in the last year, in fourth quarter of FY 23. We aim to continue this trend of steady reduction in this metric, in line with our medium-term guidance of 3.5%-4% per annum. With retail AUM now at almost INR 55,000 crores overall, we expect to continue to scale our multi-product franchise to, and for this to continue to grow at a healthy pace, even as we keep portfolio quality and some of the emerging asset quality issues as key areas of focus. As we do that, we will continue to improve operating leverage to drive profitability expansion. With that, I hand over the call to Yesh to walk us through the wholesale lending business and our progress there. Thanks, Jairam, and good afternoon to everyone. On the wholesale side, during this quarter, we disbursed INR 1,837 crore in our new wholesale business, that is Wholesale 2.0. This was a QOQ increase of 17%. We also saw faster than expected repayments in this portfolio, due to which AUM grew 12% QOQ to INR 7,889 crore. Repayments occurred across both CMML and real estate lending businesses, however, were more pronounced in the CMML segment. This only indicates better than expected performance of the book, which continues to benefit from economic payments across corporate and real estate. Since our inception of the new wholesale lending business, or 2.0 version of wholesale, we have not experienced any delinquency in the portfolio. The portfolio has an average ticket size of 75 crore and an effective interest rate of 14.3%, featuring a well-balanced asset duration and diversification. Encouraged by this performance and the market tailwinds, we will continue to build, in a calibrated manner, a granular, high quality, and profitable Wholesale 2.0 business. Our legacy discontinued wholesale AUM reduced by 49% year-on-year to 12,066 crore. This portfolio is now down 72% since March 2022, and stands at about 16% of total AUM of the firm. In the first half of FY25, we have achieved a reduction of 2,506 crore in this book. We continue to work on paring down the portfolio through a combination of organic cash flows, refinancings, asset sales and accelerated repayments. Given the amount of work in progress towards this, we feel confident to meet our target of bringing the legacy AUM to less than 10% of total AUM by March 2025. With this, I will hand over to Upma for her to cover finance part of it. Thank you, Yesh. Moving to our financial performance, in Q2 FY 25, we reported a consolidated net profit of INR 163 crores, led by growth business reporting a profit after tax of INR 130 crores. The growth business reported a net interest income growth of 29% year-on-year to INR 940 crores, led by AUM expansion. Core NIM of growth business declined by eighty basis points year-on-year to 4.5%, supporting a 23% year-on-year increase in operating profit to INR 397 crores. Net credit cost after policy and other recoveries was at 1.6% in quarter two of FY 25, versus 0.9% in quarter two of last year. The growth business thus reported a profit before tax of INR 173 crores. This represents a PBT ROE of 1.2% in quarter two of FY 25. The tax rate at PCHFL was made due to assessed carry forward losses, while at the Piramal Enterprises level, we continue to accrue the applicable tax rates. Our GNPA and NNPA ratios were 3.1% and 1.5%, respectively. Our net worth stood at INR 26,930 crores, with a capital adequacy at 23.3% on consolidated balance sheet basis. Our cost of borrowing stood at 9.1%. We are actively diversifying our borrowing mix, including securitization and international borrowing. Our fixed to floating rate debt mix has improved to 54% fixed and 46% floating, and is expected to enhance further in the coming quarters. With these remarks, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you. Thank you very much, ma'am. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only the handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, please wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. You may please press star and one to ask questions. The first question is from the line of Abhijit Tibrewal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah, good evening, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. So the first thing is on the legacy AUM. We plan to bring it down by another INR 4,500-INR 5,000 crores in the second half of this fiscal year. Just trying to understand, this quarter, we have reported that we brought down the legacy AUM without any PNL impact. So how are we thinking about the additional INR 5,000 crores in the second half? Will it kind of coincide with the recoveries that we've talked about in the past, whether from AIF or some of the other monetization tools that we've spoken about? Yes, I think that's a fair description of what it is likely to be. We don't think on an incremental basis we will see any further hits beyond on a net basis the recoveries that we look at. You might see, Abhijit, you know, credit cost line item come up, but correspondingly, some of the AIF recoveries and some of the other items that we have pointed to in the past will also come in. So we are reiterating both the points that we have made in the past. One, that the reduction through the course of the year will be INR 7,000 crores or a little bit more than that, the reduction in the legacy book, and two, that reduction would be on a net-neutral manner. And both of those we continue to believe to be true. Okay, thank you. The other thing is, I mean, we've reported total credit costs of INR 317 crores in this quarter. Just trying to understand what is the split between our growth and legacy business in this INR 317 crores? Yeah. Sorry, growth. No, no. Growth and legacy business, right? Yeah. So one thing, we'll just show it to you. Yeah. So growth, credit cost is 223 crores. You will see on Page 26. In the presentation. The growth is two twenty-three on a gross basis, and on the legacy, which is on a net basis, you will see the balance. But you obviously include the INR 77 crore of AIF gain. If we add that, then Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. AIF gain sort of showed up in the extraordinary line item, not on the credit cost line. Yes, so that is separate, that we have shown separately, the AIF gains. So gross credit costs were INR 317 crores, and when we include the AIF gains, that INR 317 crores will come down by the 77. Yes. Got it. And then, I mean, the last question that I had was for Jairam. And Jairam, I mean, in the past, you have articulated that this seemingly looks like a difficult year, in terms of, asset quality, whether we want to call it normalization, whether we talk about, the broad-based stress that we are seeing in the environment. Yesterday, also, in large, you talked about, basically broad-based stress across retail and SME segments. So two things I want to understand, while you've already explained, I mean, business loan also includes MFI for us, and that is where maybe it is also inching up and also, basically, portfolio seasoning is what you spoke about. But I mean, how are you thinking about this environment in terms of asset quality? And a related question is, we've been growing upwards of 40% in retail. Now, you would have seen RBI on multiple occasions, right? I mean, highlighting its discomfort, right? Without naming anyone, with NBFCs who are growing at a very high rate. Right, so I mean, will we, at some point in time after this, legacy AUM has run down, right, think about moderating our retail loan growth? Yeah, no, really good question. So there are two or three aspects to your question. Let me start with the last one first, which is growth outlook. See, at an overall basis, our AUM as a company has grown 12%, so fairly modest, as growth rates go. As you're rightly saying, this has been driven by kind of a tale of two cities, one part which is growing fast, one part which is degrowing fast. And that is what has resulted in a modest overall growth. As the degrowth runs its course, and as we finish the recalibration of our portfolio, we do expect to see more modest growth rates across the pool. If you look at our, you know, three-year growth rate that we have guided, we have guided around 25-26% CAGR, you know, from a FY 24 level. That is, that, that implies that by the time, the, wholesale rundown happens, we would have moderated the, retail growth rate as well. Needless to say, when we are a 55-60 thousand crore book, you can't, you can no longer grow at 40+%. Like, it's just physically, it just gets harder and harder. So it's not something that we, that we intend to do too much, so we will see as the, as the years go, but that, that's our, our medium-term guidance hasn't really changed, in that regard. Now, on your question on risk and how we are reading the risk environment, see, the risk environment is, has turned out exactly as we had expected it to. The first two quarters of this year have been challenging. And, you know, our numbers have been modestly impacted by this, you know, by this delta in the environment, but it is something that we are very much prepared for. And, we have been making underwriting cuts in our business for more than kind of a year, almost a year and a half. And, we have shown a specific slide this time, Slide 16, in our presentation, which shows the impact of all the underwriting cuts that we have been making over the last year and a half, two years. And what that shows is that with continued tightening of our underwriting criteria, our new origination quality has quite drastically improved in this period. As I mentioned in the past, when cycles start on the credit risk side, it is too late to start doing underwriting changes. You know, at that point, your investments should focus on collections. The time for underwriting interventions was before, not now. And that's exactly our belief, that people who haven't made underwriting changes in the last year, year and a half, probably a bit late for them to start doing it now. Now, the other element of your question is kind of where do we see the credit risk cycle going from here? We have no strong guidance to offer in this matter. We do think that if the retail business has had an extraordinarily benign risk environment for almost ten years, and except a small blip in the microfinance business during COVID, really nothing really bad has happened in the sector for a long, long time. And if that cycle is starting now, and it is now two quarters old, our guess would be that it'll probably continue for a little bit more. So, we would hesitate to call a top here of the credit risk cycle. It still seems early days. So this is useful, Jairam. Just a follow-up on that. Given how environment is shaping up, and I'm glad you acknowledge that if it started in the last two quarters, it might continue for some more time, rather than topping out in this quarter. So, I mean, then will it also, I mean, over the course of the next few quarters, mean that retail credit costs could inch up? Yes, it could. I think we have seen that in this quarter, and if you look at our growth business and they've got a page on the page number, what is that, page? Where are we on that? Six, seven. Okay. So they look at Page 6. Page 6, that shows what has happened in our growth business in terms of credit costs. And let's just look at the growth, the chart on the bottom middle. Let's just look at the growth numbers. The net numbers are a bit misleading. But at the growth level, we were at credit cost of 1.6% last quarter, we are up at 1.8% this quarter. Roughly the same as what we were at same time last year. Now, so we've seen a 20 basis points delta from Q1 going to Q2. My estimation would be that you would see a little bit more of an increase in this metric for the growth business in Q2 and Q3 as well. We are not guiding any specific number here. We don't know, honestly, but it's hard to imagine that this is the peak. Got it. This is, this is very, very useful, Jairam. Thank you very much, and wish you and your team the very best. Thank you, Vijay. Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Avinash Singh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So two questions. First one is on that, AIF recovery. So if I recall, I mean, when this, kind of a one-time big provision, it was taken due to ECL changes, it was kind of, indicated that the typical, run rate will be kind of, closer to INR 200 crores, or ballpark number a quarter leading to kind of INR 800 crore a year. But, I mean, the last quarter it had come lower, this quarter it is further lower. And again, in a broader context, if I understand, the real estate sector continues to do well. I mean, of course, might have moderated, but if you look for the longer time, it is still doing perfectly fine. So what sort of a thing is going on there, and what kind of a further recovery expectation we can have with this? That's one. And second, for Jairam, I mean, again, continue on the same thing. So, about a year back or so, of course, you had your kind of, you had your eyes set on to just find targets in the area of, like, microfinance, gold and all. Today, I mean, microfinance, unsecured PL, even gold has its own share of challenges. So, I mean, that kind of a, you know, inorganic opportunity seems to be off the table. Like, and on top of that, I mean, you know, growth also, you know, because as you also said, that, okay, you do not believe that this is going to sort of, you know, the credit thing is going to top, so it will continue last for some more quarters. In that context, your growth will also get affected on the retail side due to all this for a few more quarters. Do you still stand by kind of your you know, the long-term guidance, like, you know, for twenty-seven, twenty-eight guidance that you have given? Because, I mean, this is going to affect it for next few quarters. Your organic growth is going to get impacted. Inorganic currently is, I mean, likely off the table. So how do you see sort of a growth panning out, which segment will drive growth? Because, I mean, over the last few days or so, the numbers coming out from your peers, one or the other, almost every segment seems to have some kind of a trouble. You know, right now, I would say that segment does not seem, some kind of a inch up in, credit cost. These are my two questions. Thank you. Sure. See, I will address the AIF question first. The AIF constitutes, let's say, four assets mainly, right? Which is the focus of our recovery. We have been working on resolution of these assets for the last two quarters. A lot of work has gone into it, and this is which we continue to believe that we will be able to see the results of all the efforts that have gone into this in terms of the actual recoveries happening in the next two quarters. To that effect, we stick to our guidance that we had given in the March quarter of making about 1,200 crore or so of gain on PNL. And, we do feel that the progress has been made. Significant progress has been made towards this objective, and if it changes along the way next quarter, then we clearly will report back. But we do think that we are on track to achieving this performance. The only thing I'll highlight here is that the market obviously has been quite supportive. The financial market performance has been quite supportive of our recoveries, and so is the interest that we are seeing from different capital pools, particularly the funds market, where we have seen historically a lot of take-outs in our portfolio have happened through the funds taking us out, and that continues. It's not changed at all. But at the same time, we appreciate the fact that these are complex recoveries. They have many moving parts, and it can't just be a straight line, in terms of quarter-on-quarter performance. So that kind of explains the delay, in terms of where we are at, on the quarterly run rate. But we do feel, positive, and confident about, you know, being on track with our targets. So you are still suggesting, I mean, again, with the uncertainty, of course, implied uncertainty, but you are still kind of a hopeful of H2 contributing nearly 800-1,000 crore of recovery in this AIF? Yes. Yes. Absolutely we do. And our hope comes from the fact that there's a lot of work that's gone on, on these assets. Many of these deals are large deals and a lot of background work has been completed in the first half of the year, tends to be a bit slow from a deal making perspective. But all the groundwork has been laid out by Yesh and his team, and we feel good about reiterating what we had said at the beginning of the year, so nothing much has changed there. Yes, on a full year, when the year is done, you will see a full year average, not different from what you mentioned. But every single quarter it's you know, you might not see the same number, but we feel pretty good about where we are. With the second part of your question on kind of the opportunities in retail, there again, same answer as what we have said. We reiterate all the guidance that we have offered in the past. The growth final number, you know, the trajectory, nothing much has changed there. See, we are a multi-product business. At every point in time we expect some part of the some portfolio or the other, some business or the other, to be going through some challenges, either on the risk front or on the growth front, et cetera. But that's the benefit of having a multi-product platform. As we have seen in these last two quarters, while we have slowed down, let us say, digital lending growth, our overall growth has not come down because we have been able to accelerate on affordable housing this quarter, LAP in the previous quarter, et cetera. So there's always something. There is some part of the business where there is an opportunity. So we don't feel like anything needs to change on that front. We will continue to find these opportunities. There is more than enough in the Bharat markets to keep stuff going. And as far as. No, that's it. As you increase in scale, in absolute numbers, the percentage growth will fall. Of course, we're not going to continue to have 40%-45% year-on-year growth that we have had over these last two to three years. That's unreasonable to expect, and that will certainly moderate out. As I mentioned to a previous caller, our medium-term guidance is more of 25-26% you know growth over a four-year, five-year period of which the first year or so has been a little over 40%. So, you know, we feel pretty confident on the growth side. You spoke also a little bit about inorganic opportunities kind of you know drying up and certain businesses, gold and microfinance, et cetera, being out of favor, et cetera. That is absolutely true. The markets are going to be bearish on some of these businesses for a little while, but we are perpetual owners of businesses. We don't get into businesses because we want to time market or we want to make- we are looking for an investment opportunity. If we get into any of these businesses, it will be for perpetual ownership, which essentially means that, you know, down cycles are an opportunity, not a threat, for us. So, we will. If we like a certain business, the fact that that business becomes cheaper in the market is a good thing for us, and, we wouldn't run away from it, if we like the underlying long-term economics. Thank you. If I may be allowed one more? Any progress on some of the, you know, investments that are there for exit, particularly the stake in the insurance venture of Shriram Group? Because I guess there was an indicated timeline, kind of, or targeted timeline for the same. So is there any progress on, or kind of, the- Not much has changed. There is some development internally on that. We are not talking publicly about it. Let me just say that there is development operationally. You know, the deal is a lot more feasible now than it was, let's say, a couple of quarters ago. When we want to do the deal, who we want to do the deal with, whether we are already in conversations or not, it would not be in our economic interest to be very open about that at this point. Let me just say that our sort of, you know, what we have guided in the past still stands. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Probably with my question on the legacy, because a little preliminary, but I wanted to understand that if there is a movement. I'm sorry, sir, the participant has left the queue. We'll take the next question, which is from the line of Parag Thakkar from Anvil Wealth. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. So, then I just wanted to that our growth business has reported a ROA of 130 basis, 1.3% on PBT basis, right? Correct. 1.3. Okay, so growth business will include retail of INR 55,000 crore and around INR 7,500 crore of wholesale, too? Yeah. And there is no tax, right? Because, there is no tax here, right? Our tax rate, our effective tax rate at a company, at a control level is about 14%. There is no tax at the PCHFL level, but there is taxation at the PEL level. Correct. You will see our effective tax rate at 14-odd%. Okay. So basically, what is our target for the ROA in the next, say, 18-24 months from now, when you are saying that credit costs might increase and OpEx might decrease by 1%, right? So, if you see our long-term goals that we have stated, we've talked about an ROA of a little over 3% by FY 28. That is our, that has been our medium-term target that we have articulated a little over a year and a half, or maybe a little over a year ago. Nothing much has changed there, so, you know, 3% ROA is, you know, continues to be our goal. While calculating, we can calculate that current gross book, which is 64,000 crores, can grow at 25% and can achieve ROA of 3% by FY 28? Yes. That is a fair assumption in spite of your, you know, your view on credit cost? Credit cost is a cyclical view. Like, you cannot think about cycles when you're doing medium-term target assignment. Sure, sure, sure. I mean, you have to think about through the cycle averages. Like, Correct. Correct. No, no, what I'm trying to say is that your OpEx lever, still you are at four point six, right? And you are saying that you can go to three point five. So you have a OpEx lever target of around 1% in the ROA, right? Right. We have OpEx lever. We need to increase fees from where we are right now. You know, the, so you should expect to see, you know, sixty, seventy basis points coming from the fee side. Hopefully, you, even if we keep our yields the same, in the medium term, hopefully we'll be able to get a ratings upgrade, so there's a little bit of margin expansion that you should expect to see as well, and all of these will net off against any credit costs increase that happen. Super. And yeah, book, which is. I heard. Which is a good high margin business, will continue to expand as well, and will replace a negative margin Wholesale 2.0 business and that will be. By the way, I hope you noticed, and we have put up a slide specifically to talk about this, this time, that on, I think it's on Page number 5, that because of this mix shift between growth and legacy, even in this quarter, at a consolidated level, we saw NIM expansion. Contrary to what you're seeing in most NBFCs, we saw NIM expansion in this quarter because of this, of the shift from the wholesale 1.0, the negative margin business has been reducing and has been replaced by Wholesale 2.0 and retail. Just that mix shift is driving margin expansion. Correct. I really appreciate your answer. And just one thing, if I heard correctly, what you have always said is that this 12,000 crore legacy book, when you are running it down, because of the recoveries and AIF and all those things, it will be offset, not on a quarterly basis, but at least on an annual basis. So on an annual basis, this 12,000 crore rundown will not cause any losses, right? Yeah. It will, it will be net worth neutral or better. Okay, great, great, great. Really appreciate. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take the next question from Ms. Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead, ma'am. Yeah. Hi, am I audible now? Hello? Yes, you are. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. So, I wanted to understand when you say that your rundown in your legacy book, like Jairam was saying, will be net worth neutral or no impact on PNL, et cetera. If I simply look at your, the legacy book, movement of the different stages, et cetera, or through the loans and receivables, your Stage 1 has declined QOQ this quarter, some INR 863 crores or so. Your Stage 3 has increased. So I, how do I read this? Do I read this as some some loans in the Stage 1 were refinanced or some cash flow came through, et cetera, and that is why there's a reduction there? But there was some slippage into Stage 3, and possibly that could get written off at some point. Is that way of reading it correct? And then how does it, Yeah. Mechanically, what you're saying is absolutely correct. All that stuff will happen, but that has been happening every quarter and will continue to happen every quarter. So business as usual. Mm-hmm. Collections, you know, stage movements, et cetera, will keep happening in the legacy books, even as we do one-time transactions to actually keep reducing the book size in the times from this quarter. You've seen the book come down by a little over INR 900 crores. You know, some of it is through repayments and regular, you know, action of the customer, and some of it is through special activities that the team has taken on. Both of those you should expect to see in every quarter. Correct, correct. And the Stage 3 movements that. I mean, it's actually your Stage 3 for quite some time was at around the 740-800 crore level in the legacy book. This one has inched up. So, that bit can possibly at some point pass through in form of write-off or something like that later. That option is still there, right? That point is absolutely correct, but do remember that we have 66% provision made in Stage 3. Okay. Against that book. So, it's not naked exposure. Absolutely correct. And last quarter, you had mentioned that your loans and receivables, you have written off something. Is there, has more action been taken on that side? Because that's also come up in this quarter. We continue to actually work on those assets. We have strategic MOUs which are being explored with some development partners. Mm-hmm. There's no real progress to report that we can talk of here in terms of monetization potential of these sites. Mm-hmm. As we progress from here, we very much do expect to see some development, and we'll keep you updated as we go. I'd say our guidance in general in this whole legacy book has been- Mm-hmm. There are a handful of assets here. It's not productive to have an asset-to-asset conversation on exactly what the resolution path on each of these is. We believe that at an overall level, we've been able to bring that book down from 43,000 crores to 12,000 crores over the course of the last two and a half years. Yeah. Given that this twelve will become seven in the next two quarters. Exactly where that reduction will come from, et cetera, we also don't know with that precision. It depends on, you know, 10 different deals that are in the pipeline and which one gets resolved first versus not. So, you know, it's not super productive to do a deal-by-deal conversation on that one. Yeah. However, at a macro level, the overall book will come down, and it will come down in a way that is network neutral or better. That's our continued guidance on the matter. Got it. And my last question is on the yields for the overall book, right? So that, sequentially, at least the calculated yields for us, looks higher. Now, the share of the non-interest paying within your legacy book as a percentage of mix is higher this time. So clearly there is some yield expansion that has come through from the retail side. Is it purely because of the some change in mix over there, or have you raised any lending rates in any segment or any action that has been taken on that front? Hi, Shreya. We have answered that specific question of why yields have expanded, and we have shown the last five, six, quarters' trend- Okay. - and it should be self-evident once you look at the slide. Okay. Sure, sure. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Sameer Desai from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to ask, on write-offs, what was the write-off amount for the quarter? One second, Sameer. What was the write-off amount for the quarter? hundred and ten. hundred and ten. Okay, and I presume it is entirely from the legacy book? Yes. Yes. Of course. Okay. Yeah. And secondly, just on this fee bit, there's an element called as Others, which is, looks kind of lumpy. So how does one read it on a run rate basis ongoing? If I'm looking at Slide 26. Slide 26. Huh? Sorry, again. 25 of PT. Twenty, twenty? Sorry, one second, yeah. Okay. Okay, got it. So, which part do you think is lumpy? Fees and commissions of INR 102 crores, dividend of INR 32 crores, and others is INR 123 crores. That hundred and twenty-three is mostly DA income, man. Okay. Okay. Oh, no, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. There is one property sale that happened during the course of the quarter, you know, which, which forms a small, h ow much, how much is coming from there? How much is coming from that one? INR 40, 40-odd crores is coming from a one-time sale of a property. Okay, fair enough. This is helpful. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you, Sameer. Thank you. We'll take the next question from Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my question. You know, I was just looking at, you know, the growth assets and Stage 3 loans out here. I was just curious, you know, you know, there was a sequential rise, this quarter, but, more importantly, you know, w-what is, what is, what is the coverage that we are comfortable on Stage 3 loans? I know on the, you know, on the legacy assets, we have gone to, like, 65%, but- Yeah. So, see, the, in the, in the growth business, you see we use ECL models to, to come up with, Stage 3 cover, and that depends on a product-to-product basis. So, for example, if it's a housing business, you know, if it's a housing business case, then your, LGD expectation might be 25%. But if it's a personal loan case, your LGD expectation, might be 70%. Right? So depending on that, you know, depending on the mix of what comes in, you will see this ratio change. It's different for each product. At one extreme is a very safe product like housing, where the cover will be, you know, somewhere in the 20%-25% kind of range. The other extreme will be unsecured products, where it will be in the 70%-75% kind of range. This is equal to LGD, basically, of the product, which is the way ECL models work. Yeah, but, the fact is that, you know, you're not really seeing a business cycle, right? For, very effective kind of a data-driven ECL model to be- No, no, but we have all the industry's data, no? We don't need to see a business cycle ourselves. We, we can use all the industry's data, and it's all available, quite readily. Which is what we have done, is that we have done a thorough analysis of the last twenty-five years of credit experience of the industry on the bureau, and that's what we have used to come up with, you know, PD, LGD model. Which, for any player that's starting business, it's all - you're always gonna. Yeah, and in India, you have to have models. That's India's requirement. You cannot do subjectively. You have to have ECL models, which means you need to have PD estimates, and you need to have LGD and EAD estimates, which we have chosen to do, using a bunch of industry data. Of course, as our business is maturing, now we are four years old, we have four years' worth of data. So we keep weighing our internal data a little bit more in the sample every year, as the years go on, and over time, hopefully, at some point in time, it will become all internal data, but right now, we are heavily weighted by industry data. Got it. And sorry, I joined the call late, but have you called out specific reasons for sequential increase in Stage 3 loans? If you look at our risk trajectory, and we have shown on Page 15, you will see the risk performance of all the different products in retail. And you can see here how businesses like, you know, business loans, et cetera, and a little bit in used cars, you can see that trajectory increase. And so that's the kind of higher risk environment that we are seeing, and that's what's flowing through to Stage 3 in the growth business right now. These probably will need, you know, a higher coverage sooner than later, right? I mean, you probably have a 180- or 360-day fully write-off policy or something like that. No, no. Actually, in unsecured lending businesses like business loans, you know, we, when the account reaches 90 days, we make a 70% provision. When the account reaches 120 days, we make a 100% provision. Got it. Got it. Thank you very much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Thank you. Jairam, you had called out the deterioration about a year ago in the microfinance, and so, a good call that. If I go back to Slide 16, we see a dramatic improvement in 30 DPD for the retail related loans. So is that part of the, a nd we're not seeing a concomitant decrease in yield on your loans. So is it part of the learning curve, and is this a new normal for Piramal, where you know your credit standards will be tighter? You just, you know, it's just early stages of modeling, which is reflected in that. Linked to that, you know, in terms of write-offs and so on, if I leave out LAP and housing loans, I think most of your loans will be two to three years tenure. So, if you've already seen a couple of quarters and if you take it back a couple of years, then you're, like, like you said, the pain will be there for maybe another two, three quarters before the new book, kind of, e ven the macro environment is deteriorating, the new book dominates the mix, right? That is a fantastic question, and I'm glad you noticed that. I think those are really, really good points. Your point is absolutely right. Our new origination quality has been dramatically different than you know than where you know where we were before. And we have been able to do that without a yield reduction by just kind of getting a little bit tighter. Of course, our approval rates have suffered. Our approval rates are fairly low now. In unsecured lending, our approval rates are in the 15%-17% range, which is meaningfully lower than where you know where some players in the market are. So obviously, it's not been free, so it comes at the cost of OpEx. But at least we've been able to protect yield, and we've been able to protect risk. Now, you know, the, especially the newer originations, you know, today, if I look at all my unsecured lending businesses, these new, the, those older originations when I add those challenging times, they are about 12% of the AUM today, right? And as that 12% keeps reducing and that goes to single digits, et cetera, all the benefits of the chart that you saw on Page 16, all that will start showing. Thank you very much. Good luck and seasonal greetings to the team. Thanks, Vivek. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prit Nagersheth from Wealth Finvizor. Please go ahead. I think, most of my questions have already been answered. The only thing I would add is that, if it's possible, could we limit the kind of time it takes for the team to share all the updates? It's kind of taken thirty-odd minutes to kind of mostly say what's already there in the slide. So it's just a request. I mean, the line system is busy, so if you could save some time, it would allow more questions to come in. We hear you. Thank you. Thank you.