Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY 2025 Audit Conference Call of Piramal Enterprises Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. The results material has been uploaded on the company's website, and you may like to download and refer to them during the discussion. The discussion today may include some forward-looking statements based on the management's expectations that are subject to uncertainty and changes. This must be viewed in conjunction with the risks that the business face. On the call today, we have with us Mr. Ajay Piramal, the Chairman; Mr. Anand Piramal, Director; Mr. Rupen Jhaveri, Group President; Mr. Jairam Sridharan, CEO, Retail Lending and MD, Piramal Finance, Mr. Yesh Nadkarni, CEO, Wholesale Lending, Ms. Upma Goel, CFO, and Mr. Ravi Singh, Head of Investor Relations and Strategy. I now hand the conference over to the Chairman, Mr. Ajay Piramal, for his comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us today on this call. With the Q4 FY 2025 results, we take a stock of our full-year performance versus the goals we set for ourselves at the start of the year. It is also an opportunity to look back on how far we have progressed in our transformation journey in the last three years. I am happy to report that we met all the stated objectives for FY 2025. We said we will get our legacy AUM from INR 14,500 crore at the start of the year to below INR 7,000 crore, and we ended the year with INR 6,920 crore of legacy AUM. This is 9% of our total AUM. We also spoke about expected gains of INR 1,700 crore from AIS recoveries over two years. In the current year, we were able to recover AIS book of INR 1,600 crore with gains of INR 926 crore. We expected the AUM growth for FY 2025 at about 15% year-on-year net of legacy AUM rundown and the growth AUM scale-up, and our total AUM of INR 80,000 crores. We delivered an AUM growth of 17% to a total AUM of INR 80,689 crores at the end of March. We wanted to move our retail wholesale mix from 70/30 at the beginning of the year to 75/25 by the end of the year. We have ended this year with the retail wholesale mix of 80/20. We also put a target of getting our OpEx to AUM of the growth business, a key driver of our profitability, down from 4.9% in the last quarter of FY 2024 to 4.6% in the last quarter of FY 2025. We did significantly better with an OpEx to AUM of 4% for the growth business in quarter four of FY 2025. If we take a longer-term view also, the last three years have been transformational for the company. Our growth AUM, consisting of Retail and Wholesale 2.0, has grown at a 50% CAGR in the three years from about INR 22,000 crore to about INR 74,000 crore now. The share of growth AUM in total AUM increased from 34% to 91% in the same period. Our legacy AUM is down from INR 43,000 crore to INR 6,900 crore in these three years. We believe a reduction of the scale in the wholesale book in such a short time period is perhaps unprecedented in industry. While running down the legacy book and investing in new businesses, we were able to protect our net worth. Except for dividends and a share buyback, our net worth has remained broadly unchanged at about INR 27,000 crore. In these three years, we have also greatly simplified our corporate structure. We de-merged Pharma in September 2022. Currently, we are at final stages of merging Piramal Enterprises with our subsidiary, Piramal Finance. We also monetized about INR 6,300 crore from our non-core investments in the last three years. There is still significant embedded value in our balance sheet, where we have visibility of crystallizing it over the next one to two years. With the merger of PL and Piramal Finance, a tax shield of INR 14,500 crore in assessed carry-forward losses will be available. This would make our PBT equal to our PAT for several years in the future. There are further monetization and recovery opportunities from our Shriram General Insurance and Life Insurance investments and the AIS books. We also expect to receive deferred consideration of about $120 million in financial year 2026 for the sale of the Piramal Imaging business in 2018. With change in the business mix, consolidated AUM growth and NIMS have constantly been increasing over the last six to eight quarters. Similarly, our consolidated net profit has become more stable in the last five quarters versus a volatile phase we underwent between two and three years ago. In FY 2025, we just reported a consolidated net profit of INR 485 crore versus a loss of INR 1,685 crore in FY 2024. Our growth business made a PBT of INR 896 crore in FY 2025. Both our retail and wholesale businesses had a strong FY 2025, meeting their respective plans, and we are now well positioned to build upon the platform and leverage the investments that have been made. As we come to the end of our transition journey of the last three years, we are excited about the opportunity ahead of us to cement our position as an at-scale financial services company with consistent and superior earnings growth. In FY 2026, we expect to deliver an AUM growth of about 25% year-on-year, taking our total AUM to more than INR 1,000,000 crore. This will be driven by our growth AUM, which grew at 36% year-on-year in FY 2026 and should grow at about 30% year-on-year in FY 2026. Retail should form 80%-85% of our total AUM in FY 2026. The legacy AUM should further decline to INR 3,000-INR 3,500 crore in FY 2026 and be negligible in the context of our overall balance sheet size. The increase in our growth business profits and realization of the embedded value in our balance sheet would drive strong earnings growth in FY 2026. We currently expect the FY 2026 consolidated PAT of more than INR 1,300 crore versus a profit of INR 485 crore we reported in FY 2025. Once again, I thank all the investors and analysts for their support and useful feedback from the years. Amidst dynamically evolving markets, customer expectations, economic, global, technological, and regulatory landscapes, we are focused on execution and delivering on our plans. The journey of the last three years has given us everyone confidence in our capabilities. With this optimism, I hand over to Jairam, Yesh, and Upma to share more details on our performance and plans. Over to you, Jairam. Thank you, Ajay. Sir, good evening, everybody. It has been a strong quarter and a strong year for our retail lending business. At the end of March 2025, the AUM of our retail business stood at INR 64,662 crore, a growth of 35% year-on-year. In the fourth quarter of FY 2025, our disbursements at INR 9,754 crore were up 9% year-on-year. Disbursements in unsecured products were slowed down further and were down 1% year-on-year compared to secured products, which were up 22% year-on-year. Our flagship mortgage business, comprising housing loans and loan against property, grew by 34% year-on-year to INR 43,850 crore. Mortgages account for 54% of the total AUM of the company and 68% of retail AUM. Our mortgage book has exhibited robust asset quality in the last three years, with a stable 90+ days past due delinquency ratio of around 0.5%. Slide number 15 on our investor presentation shows that amongst the specialist affordable housing finance companies, where data is available publicly, we are not only amongst the largest lenders, but we are also able to grow much faster than the peer set. We believe this has been made possible by our distribution efficiency and our high-tech plus high-touch business model, which marries on-ground presence with our tech and AI/ML capabilities. In our retail products, used car loans AUM were up 91% year-on-year, and salary personal loans AUM were up 93% year-on-year. We continue to go at that slow on disbursements in business loans and digital loans. AUM for business loans were still up 22% year-on-year, while digital loans AUM were down 24% year-on-year. Overall, retail asset quality remains healthy. If you flip over to slide 24 in the investor presentation, you will see that the 90+ days past due delinquency rate of our business at 0.8% remains within the narrow range that we have maintained consistently over the last three years. The next page, slide 25 in the presentation, shows vintage risk trends across various products. We have received multiple requests on this chart in the past, and we have incorporated that feedback this time. This time, you will see that we are showing vintage risk using 90+ days past due at the 12-month mark, as opposed to the 30+ days past due at three-month mark, which we used to show till last quarter. You will notice that the trend on improving asset quality of new branches continues to remain the same. Our diversified multi-product portfolio approach provides us the flexibility to actively navigate any product-specific cycles while keeping overall asset quality healthy. Within the unsecured businesses, microfinance, which we classify within our business loan segment, witnessed the sharpest deterioration in the last six quarters. 90+ days past due in microfinance remains at 6.9% on a much-reduced AUM size. Microfinance is now about 1.5% of retail AUM. The rest of the products continue to witness benign delinquency trends. Slide 26 in the presentation shows how our credit scorecards have been effective in managing credit risk. Customers rejected by Piramal, who end up getting loans elsewhere, are seen to have risk which is 2.8 x that of the customers that our models approve. In the last four months of FY 2025, we have seen noticeable improvement in operating parameters of asset quality. Credit costs in Q4 FY 2025 stabilized at levels very similar to Q3 FY 2025. This is in spite of some upward adjustments we made in TCL rates during the quarter. Asset quality metrics in unsecured ex-microfinance appear to have peaked in Q3. Microfinance likely saw a peak in Q4, including the impact of upward TCL adjustment. Secured lending products continue to remain largely stable. As shown on slide 19, our customer franchise grew by 24% year-on-year to 4.7 million customers. We have been able to capture a significant portion of our customer originations for future cross-sell opportunities. During FY 2025, we were able to significantly increase the share of cross-sell disbursements in our unsecured lending disbursements to about 30%. From a distribution standpoint, we now have a network of 517 branches across 428 cities in 26 states. In FY 2025, we opened 27 branches versus about 90 branches per year that we used to open in the prior two years. Our focus this year has been on raising productivity of existing branches and increasing the number of products offered per branch. Slides 20, 21, and 22 in the presentation show these dynamics and the resultant improvement in our branch productivity and employee productivity, which leads me to OpEx ratio. We have continued to see strong outcomes in our OpEx to AUM ratio. If you flip over to slide 23, you will see that over the last eight quarters, we have consistently reduced our retail OpEx to AUM ratio from 6.5% in Q4 FY 2023 to 4.3% in Q4 FY 2025. We aim to continue this trend in line with our medium-term guidance of 3.5%-4%. Our performance in lowering the retail OpEx to AUM ratio consistently has been slightly better than what we expected and what we guided at the beginning of the year. This is thanks to the investments that we have made in technology, both traditional and generative AI, making significant headway across risk management, operating leverage, productivity, and the controls infrastructure, among other areas. On slides 28, 29, and 30 in the presentation, we have highlighted some of the successful use cases that we have been able to execute on traditional and generative AI in our businesses. Also, as you see on slide 23, an accounting policy change at the earliest part of the year in Q1 on processing fee impacted the reported retail fees in this year. On a like-for-like basis, underlying cash fee collected, but not yet booked, stands at 0.6% of AUM. Adjusted for the stage, which should normalize over the coming years, AUM yield in retail has been broadly stable. We have undertaken multiple new innovation initiatives in FY 2025, which you will find displayed on slides 31, 32, and 33. These include the launch of a Micro Lab business, major progress on our direct assignment and full lending program, and rising customer engagement, particularly through digital channels. Over the last three years, Piramal has built the foundation of a strong retail lending business. We have refined our execution rigors. We have successfully navigated a tricky credit risk environment. We are confident about the continued steady scale-up of our multi-product retail lending business, with consistent improvement in operating leverage and stable asset quality through the cycle. With this, I hand over the call to Yesh to talk about the wholesale business. Thanks, Jairam, and good afternoon, everyone. FY 2025 has been a very active year for the wholesale business too. As Chairman alluded to earlier, we were able to reduce our legacy AUM by 53% year-on-year to INR 6,920 crore, which now occupies a much smaller part of our balance sheet at 9% and will therefore be a smaller contributor to P&L going forward. During this year, we saw recoveries of some of our lumpy loan assets, and I'd like to note that the credit costs associated with these complex asset recoveries were adequately covered by the ARF recovery gains, which were broadly in line with the ARF recovery guidelines we had provided towards the beginning of FY 2025. Going forward, we will continue to pare down this book. We expect this book to reduce to INR 3,000-3,500 crore by March 2026. We also had a productive FY 2025 for Wholesale 2.0 business or our new business in the wholesale side. During the year, we disbursed INR 7,192 crore in new wholesale book across real estate and mid-market lending strategies. This was an increase of 22% year-on-year in origination. Origination per loan was INR 60 crore during the year, while disbursed amount per loan was INR 47 crore, thereby signifying the granularity with which we are building this business as well. The portfolio has an average ticket size of INR 70 crore and an effective interest rate of 14.4%—sorry, thanks for that—featuring a well-balanced asset duration and diversification. We continue to see strong tailwinds across real estate and CMML segments and will grow this book in a calibrated manner through FY 2026. Wholesale 2.0 AUM was INR 9,117 crore as of March 2025, which is a year-on-year growth of 44%. While this is a strong year-on-year growth, it nevertheless was tempered due to significant prepayment pressures faced by both real estate and CMML segments. Repayments were almost 45% of amount disbursed during the year, signifying better-than-expected performance of the book, which continues to benefit from strong sectoral performance and quality partner and asset selection. Since the inception of the new wholesale lending business about two and a half years ago, we have not experienced any delinquency in the portfolio. With this, I hand over to Upma to take through the financial performance. Thank you, Yesh. Good evening, everyone. Moving to our financial performance, in Q4 FY 2025, we reported consolidated net profit of INR 102 crores versus INR 39 crores in Q3 FY 2025. FY 2025 net profit stood at INR 485 crores versus loss of INR 1,684 crores in FY 2024. In Q4 FY 2025, performer profit before tax for growth business stood at INR 306 crores versus INR 212 crores in Q3 FY 2025. This translates to PBT ROAUM of 1.8% in Q4 FY 2025. For full year FY 2025, performer PBT for growth business was INR 896 crores versus INR 1,044 crores in FY 2024. In FY 2025, growth AUM grew by 36% year-on-year to INR 73,777 crores. Operating profit grew by 34% year-on-year to INR 1,889 crores. In FY 2025, growth business credit cost was at 1.6% versus 0.8% in FY 2024. Credit cost ex-post recoveries and other gains was 1.9% versus 1.4% in FY 2024. Our total GNPA and NNPA ratio stand at 2.8% and 1.9%, respectively. Our net worth stood at INR 27,096 crore, with a capital adequacy ratio of 23.6% on consolidated balance sheet basis. In Q4 FY 2025, our cost of borrowing moderated by 10 basis points quarter on quarter to 9.1%. We are also actively diversifying our borrowing mix and securitization and international borrowing share stands at 19% from 6% in March 2024. Our fixed to floating rate debt mix has improved to 43-57. The fixed floating gap between assets and liabilities has now been mostly neutralized to align the balance sheet better with a declining rate environment. With these remarks, I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take our first question from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have three questions. First is on the legacy book. Congratulations on bringing down the book, as has been stated earlier. Now, one of the things that I can see is that the major reduction in the book has come from stage two and stage one and the security receipts. You've set a target of another now bringing it down to INR 3,000-3,500 crores. If you can help us understand what will remain in that INR 3,000-INR 3,500 crores, will your majority of that be lands and receivables, and you'll try to remove as much of the stage one and two and SRs as possible? That is my first question. My second question is on the Wholesale 2.0 book. You had mentioned that the prepayment rate was elevated. I wanted to understand, is it that the prepayment rate was elevated, or have we seen more of refinancing and borrowers exiting to other lenders? If you can help us understand, and from which segment specifically? My third question, you've given a target path for next year of INR 1,300 crore or INR 1,500 crore or something like that for FY 2026. You had also mentioned about the Piramal Imaging, the one-time consideration coming through Piramal Imaging. How much money would come in? What could be the timeline, and is that included in this path, or some color on that would be useful? Thank you. That's a lot of questions. I'll try and answer the first two. My short answer to your first question is we expect the recovery to be broad-based across different categories, across sort of loan book, security receipts, obviously ARF, and the non-performing part of the book. Probably slightly delayed on the land side, but the effort would be actually to bring the reduction across the book, and that's how the trajectory will be, as we expect. To answer your second question, the prepayments have been again broad-based. Most of the prepayments have occurred because the underlying projects have performed much ahead of the underwriting, and therefore the cash generated by the project has been used to prepay the principal. It's been broad-based across the portfolio as opposed to certain loans getting defied and therefore being lumpy. Same is true for CMML book as well. Yeah, even CMML book as well. You are not—this is not a refinance story, Shreya. This is actually clients' cash flow, which is actually paying us back. Some of it, I must admit, is also coming from capital markets because the equity capital markets have done so well. A lot of the promoters are able to raise money, raise primary sort of equity, and use that to repay a bunch of debt. That is a phenomenon we have seen a lot in the last year in the corporate book. On your third question on profit guidance, yes, we have guided to a profit of INR 1,300-INR 1,500 crores in the coming year. This is on a consolidated basis, Shreya. There are lots of puts and takes here. The gains from the emerging transactions that you mentioned is one of them. There are kind of potential haircuts from some of the reduction of the legacy book. There are a lot of these one-offs, all of which is included in that INR 1,300-yeah, there are ARF recoveries, other recoveries from our old books. There's a lot of stuff that's baked in there. We know there are a lot of moving pieces in the P&L here, and that's why we wanted to offer a sense of stability in terms of a central anchor around where we believe on a consolidated basis the company's profitability is going to land. We ended this year at about INR 485 crore, and we expect next year to deliver between INR 1,300 and INR 1,500 crore. Okay, wonderful. That answers all of my questions. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you, Shreya. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Congratulations. Here are my questions, and I have a lot of questions. In terms of you managed to switch on and switch off various products and grow your retail business data. I just wanted to know what is the secret sauce there. Micro Lab is looking like a bit of the flavor of the month. Everybody's thinking of Micro Lab. Does your credit model show any danger signals or segments that you would avoid in Micro Lab? That's question number one. The second question is a follow-up to the previous question only in terms of profits because increasingly your ROE from your core business is going to become more and more important. If there are excess profits from, let's say, imaging or other recoveries and setups that are there, will those INR 1,300 crore, the way you have baked in, be core profits, or would it be profits which include the other stuff also? Because you could very well use the profit—I mean, be tempted to use the profit to write off the balance, INR 3,500 crore also, which is sealed, will be left over at the end of the year. Those are my questions. Thank you. Yeah. Vivek, thank you for your comments and for your good wishes. I think, yes, we have had some success in accelerating and decelerating products appropriately to keep our overall delinquency and credit costs fairly stable in retail. In general, if you see the business loans environment overall, it has not been the greatest. Q4 was actually good compared to Q2 and Q3. For Q4, things got better. At least we ended the year kind of a lot better than what it was looking like in the middle over. The slog over were actually pretty good as far as this business is concerned. Let's see whether that continues on into Q1 or not. It is a case to watch. MicroLab is a very small business. It will remain a small business for us for a while. We do want to invest in this space. Building new businesses is a three- to five-year journey. We are in no hurry to build this business. We are absolutely not trying to ride a wave here. This is a space where you will see us make investments and slow and steady grow it. If you see us get to like INR 1,000 crore or INR 1,500 crore AUM by the end of next year, that will be probably a really big thing. We are not going to go berserk on this stuff much at all. We will see how the market plays out. On your other question on profitability, I want to reiterate, the INR 1,300-INR 1,500 crore is all in, everything. All the positive one-offs, the negative one-offs, everything put together at a consolidated basis from PER, you should expect INR 1,300-INR 1,500 crore. Now, if the positive one-offs are a lot more, that gives us an opportunity to accelerate further some of the rundowns that we are thinking about, we will probably do that. Right? We have told you in the past, and we have shown some of the metrics and shared some of it in this forum, that historically we have had between 25%-30% haircut in reducing the legacy book. If we are going to reduce the legacy book from INR 7,000 crore to INR 3,000 crore or even further, there is something implied there. All inclusive, we do believe that INR 1,300-INR 1,500 crore we will deliver. I do not want to get into the components of each of that just yet because there are too many moving pieces, and many of them will play out differently. Our strength over the last year and a half has been that we have been able to navigate ups and downs appropriately, and we have been able to play the delivery that's bold to us. We will see what deliveries we face in the course of the year, and we will play it accordingly. What we are guiding is that from an outcome standpoint, we will deliver an outcome of INR 1,300-INR 1,500. Those were my questions. Thank you very much, and wish you all the best. Thank you, Vivek. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Kunal Shah from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sorry, so a few questions. Firstly, again, touching upon the guidance, just within this INR 1,300-1,500 crores, what is the growth business's contribution that we are looking at? Maybe obviously you have indicated there could be one-offs in terms of the sale plus the haircut. Broadly, when you are giving this specific number, what are you putting it for growth business as well? We delivered about INR 900 crore of profits, I think INR 895 crore of profits from growth business this year. Growth business is expected to grow at about 30% YOY from an AUM standpoint. Give or take, that's what we have guided. You should broadly expect that from an earnings growth as well on growth business side. Okay. So you are saying broadly ROE is remaining stable in the growth business. If I were to look at PBT ROE, you have at, say, 1.4, 1.5, which was at an FY 2025, you are saying broadly that might continue? Yeah. We are not guiding very specifically on that. We will see as the year goes. You saw that we ended the year at 1.8. It was a very strong end of the year. I do not want to make that the benchmark, but you do see that we have had some really strong quarters as well in there. Depending on what the strength of the year looks like on the growth side, we will appropriately use one-off for legacy adjustment. Yeah. But broadly, even on INR 900 crore, if we take like 30-40% growth, that itself would be like, say, still closer to almost like INR 1,200 crores contributing from the growth businesses. Correct. Okay. Got it. Got it. Perfect. Secondly, in terms of the wholesale credit cost, if we are to look at this particular quarter, would it be fair to assume that it was like INR 300 crore was the growth business's credit cost and INR 220 crore maybe INR 220-odd crore to be the wholesale credit cost, and there is INR 220-INR 230 crore? Would that be the fair assumption? Yeah, yeah. Or is INR 530 crores of loss provision? Most of the growth business has had about INR 300 crores of credit cost. The rest of it is all in the legacy side. In the legacy side, you have also seen recoveries from the AIF, etc. So all that has also gotten netted off there. Yeah, yeah. After this recovery, in fact, there would have been like INR 230-odd crores of wholesale credit cost which would have been booked in this. Correct. Correct. Yes. Correct. Got it. Got it. Lastly, in terms of this entire associated income of INR 90-odd crores, which is broadly driving this entire thing, how should we look at this? Maybe going up quite significantly out there. What is this? Is it like one-time or is this going to continue just? It's going to be INR 102-odd crores, INR 90 crores is associated income, yeah. Yeah. See, from associated income, that's going to be a little bit higher in Q4. There is a little bit of that going on. We had a better quarter in insurance, in our insurance subsidiary than what we thought. Our alternative business has done well. That's what I think. There is a little bit of quarterly seasonality that's embedded in there. Please do not analyze it. Please do not analyze what you found Q4. No, the only thing was out of INR 102 crores, like INR 90 crores coming in from insurance subsidiary and alternate businesses. Eventually, if we are to look at it, maybe the growth plus the wholesale event has hardly contributed INR 10-odd crores for the quarter. Yeah. Kunal, that's the way we have managed the quarters, right? We have shown you the full growth profitability for the full year, about INR 900 crore. We have used, as and where possible, any gains that we had over and above what we thought were kind of core requirements. We have used that to actually bring down the legacy book. That is the story and the trajectory that we will see continuing in the times to come as well. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Thanks, and all the best. Yeah. Thank you, Kunal. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. Guys, while we are waiting for the next caller to come, I want to clarify a small errata that we just noticed. We will try and correct it and just kind of connect with Kunal's question as well on the associated income in page 46 in the investor presentation. It shows Q4 profits from Pramerica Life as INR 82 crore and from alternatives as INR 8 crore. Those numbers are swapped. You should assume that those numbers are swapped. We will create the errata soon. Apologies for this error, but we just noticed it. Thank you, Kunal, for asking the question because it pointed us in that direction. We'll take our next question from the line of Kishan Rungta from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to understand how do we see the cost-to-income trajectory going forward because we have seen a bit of moderation this quarter. Given the rate cycle, RBI rate cut cycle, how do we see our cost-to-income shaping going forward? Yeah. I'll break this into two parts. One is the trajectory of cost of borrowing, and the second is the trajectory of cost of funds. Cost of borrowing, we expect slight moderation through the course of this year. There is a certain amount of our borrowing which is directly linked to market rates, where we have already seen some benefits come in. Even by the end of April, we have started seeing some moderation in those rates. A lot of our other borrowing is linked to bank MCLRs, etc., which have not yet changed. I expect those changes to come around June, July, August timeframe, which is when we will start seeing some of the benefits onto our P&L. My expectation is that it's only in the later part of the third quarter and in the fourth quarter that we will see all our bank borrowing rates actually be benefited from the rate cycle. Through the rest of the year, the market-linked borrowing should indeed give us some benefit. Given all of that situation and kind of slight delays in transmission of rates at the bank's end, I expect cost of borrowing to moderate through the course of the year anywhere between 10 and 20 basis points. However, the cost of funds for us will remain roughly flat to where we are right now because our leverage will also continue to increase in this period. Because we are a very low-leveraged company right now, and we expect the leverage to increase quarter on quarter, I think these two effects will largely net each other off, and hence cost will probably remain flat, even as COB will continue to come down. Fair enough, sir. So basically, since we have home loan and LAP, because some of the benefit has to be passed on, what would be the net impact on the margin side? We do expect our margins to expand slightly. In general, first of all, only 50% of our lending is variable rate. Even within that, a lot of them, we have some leeway in terms of reset dates, etc. We are moving, by the way, more and more of our assets to fixed rates as we speak. Our customers are slightly less sensitive to fixed versus variable in some pockets. You will see us make that move. In general, NBFC customer bases tend to see margin expansion in declining rate cycles. I do not want to speak too much about our specific strategies here, but I do not think that dynamic is going to change in this cycle. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Vinod Jain from WF Advisors. Please go ahead. Thank you. First of all, congratulations on the improved working. My only question is related to the view on Pramerica Life Insurance business and related mutual fund business. What is your view going forward on these two businesses? Can you repeat your mindset more, please? Your audio is not very clear. Yeah. I think I heard your question. Vinod, I think you're asking us about Pramerica and what our strategic view is on that business. See, thank you for your kind words on the performance of the company. On Pramerica, we have 50/50 joint venture partners in this business with Prudential UK. India is a strong market and an under-penetrated market for life insurance. We do believe in the long run there's a lot of value here. However, we also have a lot of other uses for capital which are competing, and they are very strong uses that we have. As you heard, they're expecting a 25% growth in our AUM next year. Our lending business is growing quite strongly as well. We need to keep all options on the table in terms of trying to figure out what the best use of capital is. Working closely with our joint venture partner, we will discuss what the right opportunities are. As shareholders, we promise you that we will be good stewards of the long-term value of your capital, and we'll do whatever is in the long-term interest of the fund. What about the related mutual fund business? Is that also to be viewed as, I mean, would you focus on the growth of that business also? We don't have any stake, Vinod, in the mutual fund business right now. It's an interesting business for international services in India, and penetration is increasing. However, it's not a business of immediate interest to us right now. Very well. Thank you. Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Sir, first question is on the credit cost. This year, we have seen a sharp jump on the same. That picture is not being adequately displayed when we see the days past due data and the origination data. Were there any one-offs in this credit cost for this year, or are there some specific segments which led to this sort of a 3x jump in the overall growth in this credit cost? Go to the chart. Sarvesh, if you see page number 9, please. Page number 9, if you look at the bottom left chart, you will see our credit cost data. You can see three lines there. The topmost line, which is the core credit cost of the growth business, right, which is ex of some of the gains that we make from the old Divan Bad Book, the so-called POCI book or the POCI book. Ex of that, if you see that orange line, that line has been relatively stable. It used to be 1.9%, then it went down to 1.4%, it is back at 1.9%. Nothing much has happened there. The dotted line, which is the net-net credit cost of the growth business, has indeed gone up, but that's more because the POCI book has everything that needed to be recovered has largely gotten recovered, and hence its proportion and contribution to the book has actually declined. From a credit cost perspective, we've had a very stable year in financial year 2025. We have not had any jerky movements. We have not had any significant dramatic deltas in credit cost. Going forward also, we would expect this 2% sort of a credit cost trajectory? We have not guided specifically on that, but that's a good assumption. Okay. Secondly, on the Wholesale 2.0 model, what is the sort of aspiration? Because it is a small book right now and is doing well, but going forward, how much, at what pace do we want to grow that book? See, we have been building this book up now for the last two and a half, three years, as I mentioned earlier, right? We believe that there is a market gap, and we believe that therefore we can actually build a business in a calibrated manner, which will contribute significantly as we go forward from here to the front year. I think our objective is that the right mix for wholesale retail would be in the range of 20-80, and that's where we would want to be as we optimize this business in going forward. You will also note that it has been a remarkable performance of the Wholesale 2.0 business from a credit perspective over the last two years. That is the advantage of having a mixed portfolio, is that you can accelerate and decelerate different pockets of the business based on where credit is doing well. Right now, wholesale credit is doing extraordinarily well. It might or might not continue, so let's not jinx it. Right now, it is a good environment, and we have been able to demonstrate good growth there. However, we will keep our ears very close to the ground and play as per the market conditions. Vinod, lastly, how do you look at the overall leverage in the balance sheet? Because right now, we are at INR 75,000 crore loan, and we are already at a net worth of INR 27,000 crore. Now, there are some one-off transactions, etc., for which the money is due to come. It might make your net worth even more bloated in the coming years, thereby reducing the overall ROE, etc., as we look into the company. Is there any plan to give back the money or reduce the capital at the company level? Or can the business adequately sort of leverage itself to achieve a meaningful ROE? I point your attention to page 42 in the presentation, and the top right chart on page 42 shows how the leverage ratio on a gross and net basis has moved in the company over the last one year. You will see that over the last year, our net-to-equity has gone from 2x to 2.4x. We have said in the past as well that we would probably never go past 4x, so there is still a ways to go for this metric to keep rising. Now, can we return capital to shareholders? Returning capital to shareholders in financial services companies in India is relatively complicated. There are only two ways of returning capital. One is dividends, and the other is a buyback. Buybacks are largely not feasible for financial services companies because our net-to-equity is greater than two, and SEBI regulations do not allow it. On dividends, you did hear our dividend announcement today. We have announced a dividend of INR 11 per share and a payout ratio of 50%. We are going to the max level that we can in terms of paying dividends because that is a way for us to return capital to shareholders. Your point is absolutely right that we are a little bit over-capitalized, and we should strive to return some capital to shareholders. Regulatorily, our options are somewhat limited, and we are using to the fullest the one option that we have, which is dividend, by paying 50% payout ratio, which is the max we can. This sort of a payout will continue, is it? No. Let's see. We'll have to create year by year. See, the leverage ratio is one thing that you want to monitor. You also want to monitor where our capital adequacy norms are, where the growth opportunities are, and whether the monies are better utilized internally. 50% is the highest we are regulatorily allowed to pay, and this is obviously the highest that we have ever paid in terms of payout ratio in our history. Typically, we have been more in the 30%-35% range. Let's see what happens next year. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, we'd like to remind participants to press star and one to ask a question. Next question is from the line of Mohit Jain from Tara Capital Partners. Please go ahead. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes, Mohit. We can hear you. Yes. Hi. Good evening. Sir, how should we look at the growth rate for the unsecured business going forward? I believe you said the credit cost in microfinance has almost peaked in this quarter. Going forward, both in terms of disbursement as well as AUM growth, how should we look at unsecured this? I think FY 2026 will be higher than FY 2025 in terms of growth rate and unsecured. I think we have had some severe challenges in at least, I would say, two and a half quarters out of four in this year. If you look at slide 70, for example, you will see how both in digital and business loans, we have had to go super slow in this year. Digital, at least our confidence has increased a little bit, and you might see us accelerate a tad on that front. On business loans, probably not yet. Maybe another quarter of watching it before we get going. In general, my expectation is that growth and unsecured will be higher in FY 2026 compared to 2024, both in disbursement terms and in AUM terms. Sir, how do you think that is going to affect the NIMS going forward? Because I believe you also touched upon NIMS once, but if you can just put your views considering the fact that the growth in the unsecured is going to be at a faster pace, and obviously, we will have the advance of the rate. How do you look at the NIMS projections for the next? See, NIMS, I mean, the increase in unsecured in the coming year is not going to affect NIMS this year. It will affect NIMs in the future, but in the immediate year, it does not make a difference because it will not change the proportion of AUM. In general, we would like to be about, I want to say, four to five percentage points higher on unsecured in our contribution to AUM compared to where we are today over the next couple of years. I do not know how conducive the next coming year is going to be on this, but generally, we would want to be four to five percentage points higher than where we are. That is obviously NIMS accretive in the future. Make no mistake, it is not going to affect NIMS this year at all. These things only impact the year after. Understood. Sir, just one final follow-up. The housing loans that we have been hearing, it's getting very competitive, obviously, in the prime segment in which we do not operate. As an extension of that, the other segments are also going to get more competitive. Do you think there can be a situation in which we may end up focusing more on the, let's say, margin part as compared to the growth, or which is going to be more important? Yeah. If you look at page 16, where we have shown the data on housing, you will notice that on a year-on-year basis, our disbursements actually have not grown in housing. We are in the 11.6% segment, so our disbursement yield is 11.5%. You will notice, if you go back to the last two or three quarterly presentations, that we have consistently been around 11.5%. We have not budged on the rate just to gain some growth. We have stuck to the disbursement yield that we need, and if that means disbursement growth is not there, so be it, right? So far, it has been okay because last, we have been able to grow reasonably well. On an overall basis, in mortgages, we have been able to deliver 12%+ from an overall yield perspective, and it is something that I am reasonably comfortable with. Yes, housing, particularly this less than INR 2.5 lakh housing loan, are going through a little bit of a challenge from a growth rate standpoint, but these things are cyclical. I'm sure it'll come back, especially if Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana takes off. I'm sure it will come back, but last year wasn't it. Let's see whether this coming year it does any better. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jairam Sridharan for his closing comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you very much. I say thank you very much to all the participants for participating actively in this call and for all your great questions. We've had a great year as a company and a strong quarter in somewhat turbulent times. As we have guided for the coming year, we are looking forward to a strong year in terms of both growth and profitability, as well as a resolution of some of our historical legacy assets. Looking forward to your continuous engagement and support in the course of the coming year. Have a great evening, everyone, and thanks for participating. Thank you. On behalf of Piramal Enterprises Ltd, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.