Ladies and gentlemen, good day. On behalf of Elara Securities, I would like to welcome you all to the Q1 FY 2025 earnings conference call of Punjab National Bank. We have with us the senior management team of Punjab National Bank, represented by MD and CEO Mr. Atul Kumar Goel, Executive Director Mr. Kalyan Kumar, Executive Director Mr. Binod Kumar, Executive Director Mr. M. Paramasivam, and Executive Director Mr. Bibhu Prasad. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star 10-0 on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. With this introduction, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management of Punjab National Bank. Thank you very much, Pankaj. Good afternoon to everybody. I welcome all the persons from the analyst team, other team also. Welcome to this conference call of the Punjab National Bank for the first quarter results, June 2024 quarter. I will give my brief about the results. Then I will be asking any questions which you want to ask me, whatever the doubt in your mind also. So this is a very good quarter as far as the result of the Punjab National Bank is concerned. In all the parameters, whether it is a business, whether it is a profitability, whether it is an asset quality, first time we have achieved the total business of the INR 24 trillion. The business growth business increased to INR 24.39 trillion with a growth rate of 10% and deposit growth INR 14.08 trillion with the growth rate of the 8.5%. As far as credit growth is concerned, that is a very, I think, robust growth. INR 10.28 trillion we have achieved the credit with a growth rate of the 12.2% year-over-year. And if you see the quarter-over-quarter, it is a 4.6%. And if you analyze the quarterly growth, it is coming more than 18%. So this is good growth as far as the CD ratio. That is very comfortable position, 73.05%. There is a growth in the savings bank. Also CASA is a challenge for the banking industry. But savings bank, there was a positive growth. It was INR 484,377 as against the figure of INR 464,000 in the last year, June 2023 quarter, as against the INR 4.880 trillion in the last quarter. So there is a growth from the June 2023 quarter as well as the March 2024 quarter. As far as RAM is concerned, there is a growth in the RAM also. The percentage of the RAM to the total credit has also increased. It was 54.74% in last year of the corresponding year quarter, 54.74%, which has improved to 55.46%. Even it is better than 55.18% in the last quarter, March quarter. As far as the profitability is concerned, the net interest income increased to INR 10,476 crores with a growth rate of the 10.2%. As far as operating profit is concerned, it has increased to INR 6,581 crores with a growth rate of 10.3% year-over-year. And net profit, there was a growth of 159%. Last year, the same quarter, June 2023 quarter, the profit was INR 1,255 crores. It has increased to INR 3,252 crores with a growth rate of 159%. And if compared with the last quarter, the last quarter also, it was INR 3,010 crores. So 8% growth from the quarter to quarter. And one thing I want to highlight to all of you, this NII, this operating profit, and the net profit number of the INR 10,476 crore, INR 6,581 crore, INR 3,251 crore is the highest in the history of the Punjab National Bank in the last four years after the amalgamation of the two more banks. As far as asset quality is concerned, the gross NPA used to be around INR 70,899 crore a year ago in the June 2023, has reduced to INR 51,263 crore. And the percentage of the gross NPA which used to be around 7.73% in June 2023 quarter has reduced to 4.98%. And this last quarter, March quarter, it was 5.73%. So there was around 75 basis point reduction from the quarter to quarter n et NPA which used to be INR 17,129 crore reduced to INR 5,913 crore. The net NPA percentage, net NPA percent, 1.98% June 2023, reduced to 0.60%. Last quarter, March quarter, it was 0.73%. The PCR, it was improved from 89.83% one year back to 95.90%. The credit cost, credit cost last year, June 2023, it was 1.99%. Last quarter, March 2024, it was 0.81%. The figure of the provision of the last June 2023 quarter, INR 4,374 crore. March 2024, it was INR 1,958 crore. And June 2024, it is INR 859 crore. It is a 0.33%. The credit cost has reduced drastically because there is a two-three thing. It's a provision has already improved 95%. And recovery every quarter, either double or sometimes triple also. If you see the last year also, the recovery was more than triple also. So this is the one of the reason. And we are revising the guidance for two numbers. Last time, we have given the guidance for the gross NPA will be 5% by the end of March 2025. So since we have already achieved 4.98, we are revising; it will be around 4%. Similarly, the credit cost, which is one of the major factors for the profitability is concerned, we have given the guidance for the 1% for the whole of the year. Since we have already 0.33 and 95.33 in this current quarter, we are revising it 0.5 for the whole of the year. Because I am seeing time will come when there will be a reversal also. Because as I told you, there is a recovery. Recovery may 60%, 70% with the write- back. And the new addition may be able to provide 20%. So time will not be far when we see the reversal in the reversal in the credit cost also. But as of late, we are giving the guidance of the 0.50 is concerned. As far as capital is concerned, 15.79 is the capital. Tier 1, 10.95, AT1, 2.09, Tier 1, 13.04, and Tier 2 is the 2.75. As far as capital plan is concerned, last time I told you we have board approval in hand for INR 7,500 crore, INR 7,000 crore for AT1, INR 1,000 crore for INR 3,000 crore for the Tier 2. Total INR 17,500 crore. So today, because as I told you, capital, we are adequately capitalized. So initially of the INR 7,500 crore, we will reduce this quantum from INR 7,500 crore to INR 5,000 crore for this particular year. And INR 10,000 crore will remain unchanged for the Tier 1 and Tier 2 is concerned. As far as cost of deposit is concerned, cost of deposit 5.08. It was 5.06 in the last quarter. And the yield of advance 8.43. Last quarter, it was 8.54. And last year, it was 8.13. As far as NIM is concerned, NIM is 3.21% for the domestic and 3.07% for the global. And we have given the guidance 2.923%. And I think we will give the same guidance we will give you. As far as cost to income ratio is concerned, this is a very important ratio, cost to income ratio. It was 56.09% in the last quarter. The reason was that when we have explained the last quarter also, because on account of the wage revision and the AS-15 provision was INR 2,396 crores March 2024 quarter maybe. It has reduced to INR 742 crores. And it will remain in the same line basically. It will not further increase. So this was the reason to reduce the cost to income ratio from 56% to 53.28%. And last year, June 2023, it was also on the same line, 53.83%. As far as I told you, the NIM etc. Also, the guidance will remain unchanged. Movement of NPA, I would like to tell one thing. The recovery, as I told you, is INR 3,249 for this quarter. This is the recovery, including the technical write-off as well as some interest has been moved in the interest income. Because entire amount is not reflecting in the movement of the NPA also. The remaining amount, which is in addition to the TWO and the recovery of the derecognized interest, that is coming in the movement. The slippage, INR 1,755 slippage. It is the 0.76%. We have given the guidance for the 1%. We are not revising the guidance. But this slippage is the least slippage in the last 12 quarters. Last three quarters, maybe, it's subsequent is INR 1,755. And it will remain within the 1%. That will remain same. As far as this SMA 0, 1, 2 is concerned, total SMA 0, 1, 2 was 1,883. And the 5 crore and above, SMA 2 is only 1,600. As far as slippage is concerned, INR 1,700 crore, as I told you. The sector-wise slippage is agri INR 399 crore. This MSME INR 3,637 crore, retail INR 493 crore, other INR 89 crore others means corporate etc. And existing accounts INR 102 crore. So INR 1,755 crore. The highest NPA also. The INR 89 crore. Otherwise, if you see the first five, six highest NPA of this quarter, the first is INR 89 crore and the fifth is only INR 7 crore. So this is the improved quality has been improved too much. So as far as growth is concerned, growth, as I told you, this is 12.20% in the credit growth. And domestic advances, it was 11.56%. RAM, it was 13%. MSME 7.92%, agriculture 15.75%, retail 14.93%. So this is about the growth and the slippage as the CD ratio. I have already discussed with you. One more thing I would like to tell you, which normally I give every quarter, how the new underwriting is giving. The data from the first of July 2022 to 30th July 2024, it is the data of four years, 48 quarters' data. This INR 8.32 trillion we have sent, INR 7.49 trillion we have disbursed. Outstanding is INR 5.93 trillion. The NPA in this new underwriting of the last four years, INR 2,276 crore, which is coming around 0.30%. I will give the sector-wise also. Out of 0.30 may, retail it is 0.27%. MSME 1.54%, agri 0.52%. As far as capital, I already discussed. I will give one more data. Really, you may be interested in data because on account of the worry from the regulatory side also. Unsecured loan. Unsecured loan in the retail is INR 27,630 crore only. Out of which, INR 938 crore is the credit card. Education loan is INR 4,219 crore. Personal loan against pension is INR 4,451 crore. And personal loan, apart from the pension loan, is INR 18,022 crore. So it is INR 27,630 crore. Out of this INR 18,022 crore PAPL may, digital INR 4,307 crore, non-digital INR 13,715 crore. The NPA in this PAPL, either digital or the non-digital is less than 2%. It is around 1.86%. So one more thing, because there is a change in the guidelines for the valuation of the investment, which was effective from the first of April 2024. It may, whatever the unrealized profit, unrealized profit on the bonds or the G-Sec or the equity, it was INR 2,099 crore net of tax. Please note, INR 2,099 crore net of tax. Otherwise, gross was INR 3,155 crore. But net of tax has been added only in the INR 2,099 crore. Out of which, 3,155 gross NPA, 2,582 was the unlisted stock NPA, which is not allowed to be used for the capital computation. So CET1, only 573 is the gross. But 373 net of tax has been added only in the CET1. I am again repeating, INR 373 crore added in the capital net of tax for the CET1 calculation. Otherwise, 2,099 net of tax has been added in the General Reserve. As far as the other thing is concerned, the investment NPA, the 73.59% in the HTM. And everything has been marked to market also. Retail, I already, RAM was already discussed 55.46%. It was 55.18% in the March quarter and 54.74%. Our focus on the RAM to leverage the branch network of the 10,000 branches. CASA, I would like to give only one thing because CASA is the challenge for the banking industry. But this is not for the Punjab National Bank 10,000 branches. We are having 24 customers. We are having last year, we have opened more than 1 crore account in this quarter also. 27 lakh account we have opened. Current May, last year we have opened 2.68 lakh. In this particular quarter, we have opened 54,000. As far as NCLT is concerned, 813 account we have applied of INR 104,383 crore. Out of which, 790 account was admitted of INR 103,058 crore. 23 account remaining to be admitted of INR 1,325 crore. Out of which, as of date, 259 account resolved for INR 46,425 crore. 307 account under liquidation, INR 34,739 crore. 224 account pending at various stages for INR 21,894 crore. As far as recovery in the NCLT is concerned, last year first quarter May 566 crore, second quarter 556 crore, third quarter 1,831 crore, 648 crore in the last quarter. Total recovery was 3,603 crore in first quarter. INR 292 crore we have recovered. We are estimating INR 1,200 crore in the current quarter, September quarter, INR 997 crore around third quarter, fourth quarter INR 500 crore. So around INR 3,000 crore we are also estimating in the current financial year also. The NARCL, 14 accounts we have transferred of INR 3,778 crore. Out of which, INR 974 crore we have realised by way of SR as well as the cash. 9 accounts under discussion for the outstanding of INR 1,549 crore. Modified duration of the investment of AFS, HFT is 3.61. For total portfolio is 4.76. So I have tried to cover all the basic main thing of the financial result. I think whatever we have promised last quarter, we have tried to deliver that also. Again, I am repeating the guidance. The credit growth we have given the guidance 11%-12%. We have achieved 12.20%. We are not revising. Deposit growth 9%-10%; 8.5% we have achieved. CASA share we have around 42%. It was 40.08% operating profit 10%-11%. We have achieved 10.27%. NIM net interest income around 10%. We have achieved 10.23%. NIM 2.9%-3%. We have achieved 3.07%. Gross NPA we have given the guidance less than 5%. We have already achieved 4.98%. We are revising it to 4%. PCR 95%; 95.90% already we achieved. So this will remain the same as 95%. Credit cost, definitely. Credit cost we have given the guidance for the 1%. Actual is the 0.33%. We are revising 2.5%. Although time will come, there will be reversal. Because if you see the recovery is more than the slippage, sometimes two times, three times. And 95% is the PCR. Not much requirement for the aging provision. But we are revising to 1%-0.5%. This is the reason. 18,000 crore recovery target. We are confident, definitely. Although recovery in the first quarter on account of this election, on account of the transfer posting, more than 50% staff in the branches was involved in the election process also. This was the little bit on the lower side, INR 3,249 crore. Definitely, we will be achieving much more than in the full of the financial year, INR 18,000 crore. Slippage, as I told you, 1% is the guidance we have given. 0.76% we have already achieved. I am not revising this guidance. We will try to control. 1% is, I think, reasonable number, INR 2,000 crore per quarter out of the INR 10 trillion book. This is my initial remark. Thank you very much to all the analyst friends from the division. I thank you for your confidence, which you have reposed in the Punjab National Bank. I hope that will remain continue also. So I am open for any question, answer, whatever you want clarity in any number, etc., which is in your mind. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Congratulations. Good evening, Mahru. Congratulations, sir. Thank you very much. Sir, I had a few questions that you also mentioned in a brief comment on your annualized credit growth. So is it likely, or do you see scope for your credit growth being faster than what you guided, given that your annualized run rate is already high? And do you think there are enough deposits in the system to be able to support any up move in credit growth forecast, if at all there is any? That's my first question, sir. And then I have a few other questions. Mahru, as far as credit growth is concerned, we had given the guidance of 11%-12%. We will issue to same, 11%-12%. Although we have achieved 12.0%. So it is in the same range. 12% we have given the guidance. So I am not revising. It will remain within the range of 11%-12% as far as deposit is concerned. I may tell you one thing that deposit, although there is a challenge in the banking industry, I am not doing that because there is a gap between the credit growth and the deposit growth. But as far as Punjab National Bank is concerned, as of date, I am not forcing any challenge because we are having 10,000 branches, 24 crore customers. As I told you, we have opened more than 1 crore accounts last year, more than 27 lakh accounts we have opened. The money will come definitely. Even because if you see my CD ratio, it is 73%. So deliberately, we are not raising the deposit because bulk deposit is available, but that is costly. But I will use that deposit if I am not in a position to deploy that deposit in the more remunerative manner. So deliberately, we are not taking the bulk deposit. So we are trying to improve the CASA. And as I told you, 73% is my CD ratio. So whatever additional deposit I will raise, I will not be required to maintain on that SLR because I am sitting on more than 78,000 SLR. So I will be in a position to use 100% incremental deposit for the credit growth. So this is my answer of your query. And sir, the new LCR guidelines, have you got a chance? I know you'll be busy with results, but have you got a chance to have any rough impact of the new LCR draft norms? I know it's a draft, but based on the draft? Mahru, it is a draft guideline. They have invited comment also. This will be applicable from the first of April 2025. As of date, my LCR is 125%. We have made a rough calculation also. Impact of the will be around 10%. So 115% will be the new as per the new guidelines. Okay, sir. That's helpful. And sir, one more, just a few questions on the net interest margin and income. So sir, what was the recovery income this time versus last year first quarter, which is included in NII? And then what was the improvement in yield on investment because of the new investment guidelines, the new investment norms that kicked in, for which your reserves have also increased? Yeah, yeah. As far as this interest income in the concern in the recovery from the recovery, that is in the range of INR 600 crore to INR 700 crore. And I have seen the data also. That is in the same range. This quarter is also between INR 600 crore to INR 700 crore. Even in the June 2023 quarter, it was in the same range. So that is remain on the same. As far as your investment guidelines is concerned, I would like to tell you, reserve already I have told you, INR 2,099 crore has been added net of tax in the general reserve. And mark to market is INR 257 crore. That is through P&L. No, that's through other income. Is there any uptick in yield on investment because of the new guidelines? The mark to market on investment will be in other income, no? No, no. That is to the Mahru. If you see my investment yield, it was 6.82%. It is 7.06%. Because a little bit sharing cost has been revised. If you see what was because unrealized profit has already been added in the asset side. So if you see, it is on the higher side. If you will add because you have to break up it. Because part is the equity, part is the bond. Bond may, there is no too much uptick. Because the appreciation, which is 2,000, is coming. That is on account of the equity. Because we are aware because there was a depreciation in the AFS portfolio, which we have reversed. So there is no impact as far as yield on investment is concerned on account of this revised guidelines. Got it, sir. This is very, very helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashok Ajmera from Ajcon Global. Please go ahead. Sir, compliments to you, sir. Atul ji. Thank you, Ashok ji. Thank you very much. Your hard work of last two, three years has been really paid off. And fantastic set of numbers are given by Punjab National Bank. It is now firing on all the cylinders once again. You know, achieved the past glory. Numbers are really wonderful. Fantastic numbers, sir. Once again, compliments. Having said that, sir, I have got certain questions and some observations. Now going ahead, sir, the same question which Mahru has raised. Like when you say that you are already 4.5 and above in the credit one quarter itself. And if you analyze, it is 18%+ growth is possible. Still, you are retaining the guidance of only 12%, whereas you said you are comfortable on extra SLR front also, even if there is some challenge on the deposit. So what is stopping you to revise this guidance of the credit growth? Like the way you are going now, can it not be considered like, say, 15%, 16% for FY 2025? This is number one. I have got some, like you said, that the modified duration of the overall investment book, you said is around 4.76 times or 4.75 times. Don't you think that this modified duration has gone up a little bit high? And are you expecting surely for some rate cuts in the coming quarter? So as to take the advantage of this higher duration, this is on the treasury front. And I would also like to hear a little more on NARCL, the pipeline recovery to ascertain the recovery pipeline. And one point on NARCL is that some accounts have already gone and accepted by NARCL. So how much amount of the SR, which we have received on those accounts, because they are fully provided for the current value? So just to ascertain, since it is guaranteed 100% by the government, I mean, one or other day, I mean, that provision will come back, that amount. So these are the few questions and observations on the round one, sir. Okay, okay. Ajmera ji, I will give one by one. First is the credit growth. Definitely, I told you 4.6 is the quarterly revised 18%. But I am giving the guidance for the 11%-12%. Why I am giving 11%-12%? Because we are the big bank. There is some short-term advance also available in the book. Because we have to see what is our incremental cost of the deposit, whether we will reprice that advances or not. Because we are not doing any business where we should not get any remunerative profit also. We will not give any where there is a negative credit. This is the reason. We will not roll over. We will not get the pricing of our choice. This is the reason. We are stick to 11%-12%. But definitely, we will try. If opportunity available, if opportunity available, business is available, we will definitely do. Deposit is not the challenge. We will raise the bulk deposit as well as I told you. If I raising the bulk deposit 8%, if I will get the deal on the asset side more than 8%, I will not allow the opportunities to go down. Suppose I am getting the asset side on the 8% because triple-A customers are asking for the 8%, sometimes less than 8%. What is the benefit to raise the bulk deposit of the 8%, giving the loan to just on increase of the top line? So this is the answer of the credit growth. As far as modified duration is concerned, as I told you, 4.76 is my modified duration for the entire portfolio. 3.61 is the duration for the AFS and HFT. You have told me it has been a little bit increased. So 3.61 is very reasonable because mark to market has to be done on the AFS and HFT. Mark to market is not to be done for the HTM as of date also because it is for the revised guidelines also. So as far as because I think it definitely increases will be the declining scenario. Declining scenario, I think you will agree to me. There should be a higher modified duration. But we have kept a reasonable duration. So rate cut, it is very difficult to put it also. We were thinking the rate cut will come from the last 6, 7 months. Even whatever the inflation number we have seen in the last month also, immediately I am forecasting that there will not be rate cut. Although the Fed will give their comment on the 31st of this month also. So even I immediately 4-5 months, I am not expecting any rate cut will come. But definitely, we have to wait for the regulator's call also. So as far as the NARCL is concerned, this NARCL 14 account of INR 3,778 crore we have sold. Out of which we have received INR 974 crore. INR 974 crore means 15% received. We have received as cash. Remaining is the SR. Definitely, SR is the guarantee by the government. Moment we will get the recovery from the SR, the entire 100% provision will be reversed. So about INR 800 crore is SR, which is included in this total SR from NARCL. Isn't it, sir? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 974 means 15% we have got. Yeah. Sir, this new discussion paper on the double provision on the deposit which are generated through digital media or online. Hello? Yeah, yeah. I'm hearing you. Yes. So sir, what is our assessment if that comes in? Are we really going to be impacted by much? Because I don't know the exact mix of the deposit which are generated through the online media, I mean, digital media. So what is your take on that? And how do we take care of that? And the bank's overall position on the digitalization, that how far we have succeeded in completing all the verticals which we started and a good amount has been also spent on the digitalization. So what is the plans and how much budget is there which is spent, which is yet to be spent? How many verticals started already giving the result? Ashok ji, as far as budget is concerned, INR 2,800 crore is the budget for the IT expenditure for the current financial year. We have started this journey 2 years back. More than 100 product process and service we have revised. We are getting the results of the digital transformation also. Digital is the future of the banking, whatever you are told. On account of this runoff from the 5%-10% or the 10%-15%, it is a calculation everybody will be impacted. We have made our calculation also whatever the deposit through the where we have provided the internet banking, digital mobile banking, etc. Even the another category also, deposit less than INR 7.5 crore apart from the individual and the joint name also trust, etc., that is also included. 125% of our LCR was there. It will be reduced to 115%. Around 10% there will be impact. All right. So you don't feel that that will create any problem in the liquidity? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the problem is in the calculation. And they have given the time to up to the 1 year also. But 9, 8, 9 months also is available. But digital will remain. I can calculate. We are not going to stop the digital. This is the future of the banking industry. And ECL impact has been assessed? I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Ashok. Okay. Please call. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Aggarwal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Good evening, sir. Congrats on a very good quarter. Good evening again. Yes, sir. I have two questions. One is on the OpEx. If I look at the OpEx number this quarter, that still looks a tad higher, especially the other OpEx. Was there any runoff in this? And how should we see the run rate going ahead? Runoff. There was definitely a runoff because we have incurred INR 558 crore for purchase of PSLCs. That is the only. On account of this, this number has increased. Otherwise, this number will be normalized in the subsequent quarter also. Okay. So this is a non-recurring expense. It is a non-recurring because we have already whatever the requirement of the whole of the year. We have already incurred INR 558 crore there one time. Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. And sir, secondly, while you have realigned the credit cost guidance, but that will directly feed into ROA or you will want to keep the ROA guidance unchanged at 1% by 25%? You think you are very smart. I have given the guidance on the 0.8% at the beginning when I have kept the credit cost of the 1%. And if you see the first quarter result also, it is around 0.82%. So definitely, there will be definitely impact of the ROA, but I am not revising the ROA guidance 0.8%. Only I am giving one guidance. Because I have given last time guidance, the 1% ROA will be exit of the current financial year, 2024, 2025. So I think we will be in a position to achieve this 1% ROA before the exit of the current financial year. This is only my word. But guidance I am remaining until 0.8%. Okay. Okay, sir. Sure. And sir, the other thing is on the tax rate. Because that is something that will really drive up the ROA beyond one. So by when can we expect the PNB's tax rate to come down to 25%? Can you repeat what you told? More than 1%. Yes. The tax rate, because tax rate is still around 38%. So by when can we expect this to normalize and come down? As of date, we are on the old regime. We are under discussion with our tax consultant because last time also I have said we have some benefit. If we will switch over to the new, so immediately we will lose whatever the benefit we have. But definitely, we have to take a call. I fully agree with you. The moment we will shift to the new tax method, immediately the ROA will be more than 1%. Yes. Yes. Okay, sir. Sure. Thank you so much and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity, sir. Hi, sir. Sir, a couple of questions, sir. Firstly, for the PSL, like I saw the previous quarter also and this quarter also. So we are actually fulfilling, meeting all the targets, especially in the small and marginal farmer also. So what was the need to purchase PSLC, sir? There is a target for the 40% for the priority sector, 18% for the agriculture out of the subsector agriculture, but 10% is for the marginal or the small farmer. So we have to not only achieve the agriculture subsector also. This is the reason we are purchasing this PSL from the market because we are short of the target. Number is including the purchase. Correct, sir? Yes. Number, definitely. That number, it will not come in the balance sheet in the form of the advance. It is only for the calculation for the priority sector. Whatever the presentation we have given, this amount has already been included. There is a slight volatility in the recovery on return of numbers, sir, on a year-on-year basis. Now it is approximately INR 800 crore. So what is the full year target only on the recovery on return of numbers, sir? Rakesh, total target we have given for the INR 18,000 crore today. Today, I am having the TW book of the INR 93,000 crore around more than INR 50,000 crore we are at this gross. I think it is difficult. It is difficult to estimate whatever the recovery will come from the TWO. But total recovery, we are confident whatever the number we have seen, INR 18,000 crore, definitely we will be in a position to achieve. The question is on which book, like AFS, HFT, which book we have a depreciation, sir? In the line? There is some disturbance in the disturbance of the voice. Can you repeat the question? Disturbance, too much disturbance in the area. Rakesh. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. No, sir. I was asking, sir, this INR 390 crore of investment depreciation, which category this has come from? This should not be from AFS. So I just wanted to know this INR 390 crore number. This I can explain. This is on account of one of the subsidiaries. This is one of the because as per the revised guidelines, you have to revalue your subsidiary etc. also. So this is one of the subsidiaries where there is accumulated losses also there. The valuation we have to take it on the market, INR 399 crore we have provided. Which subsidiary, sir? Sorry, sir. I missed it, sir. Subsidiary. I think it is not advisable to disclose the name of the subsidiary also. It is only for the one subsidiary. This I can tell you. Yeah. Okay. And sir, this food processing NPA is around though it has come down, but it is still very elevated food processing gross NPA. So can you elaborate, please, sir? You are talking about the gross NPA? Yes, sir. Gross NPA and food processing. Food processing and gross NPA. If you see my this 4.98%, it is the total gross number. But food processing, the number, it is a legacy issue because some of the rice sheller, etc. I will give you one, as I told you. New acquisition is not. It is only on account of the legacy issue, some rice sheller, food processing, which is coming under the food processing. And sir, increase. I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. Mr. Rakesh, could you please fall back in the question queue for further questions? Sure. Sure. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Jai Mundhra from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Goel, sir. Good evening. Good evening. How are you? All good. All good, sir. Thank you. Sir, excellent quarter and excellent steady performance on asset quality. Sir, I wanted to check in the opening amounts. Did you mention that SMA 0 + 1 + 2 at the entire bank level was around INR 100,000 crore? I mean, all ticket size included, what was the number? Yeah. You are very much right. It is INR 1,883 crore. But INR 5 crore and above, it is INR 1,604 crore only SMA 2. Yeah. Correct. So sir, if you were to bifurcate this into SMA 0, because that should be least risky, and then. I understand your question. Out of this 177,952 in the SMA 0. I will give you the number of the SMA 0 today. So it is only 22,344. The INR 15,000, so it's very common here. Right. And one and two, sir, also? one is the 11,432 and SMA 2 is the 12,499. Okay, sir. So sir, SMA 2. 12,000 number is okay. 12 because there is some of the borrower who was making the payment very last day. Yeah. Please go ahead. So I wanted to check, sir, SMA 1 and 2 number, has this increased or this is kind of a number steady because the slippage run rate is very, very low, 17, 1,750. So given this SMA book, should the current run rate sustain or you think slippages can go up from here? No, no, no. It will not increase. I am promising you. If you see last four, five quarters, my slippage is around the same number. If you see this number, it was INR 1,700 crore, INR 1,800 crore. Only INR 2,000 crore was the number in the March quarters. I am just seeing the SMA 1, 2 from the compare with the March 2024, even June 2023. It is on the same line. It is not decreasing or increasing the same line. Right. Okay, sir. Maybe I'll take this offline. This number, the performance on asset quality is exceptionally good, even though this SMA 0 + 1 + 2 is still an elevated number. Okay. No, no, no. I may correct you also. Elevated only zero. The SMA 1 and SMA 2 only less than INR 25,000 crore. If you are adding the book of the INR 10 trillion, INR 25,000 crore will be here. They are making the payment of the very last day, 55 days, 60 days. This is the reason I'm giving the more than INR 5 crore SMA 2 number where there may be a danger for the slippage from the SMA 2 to 1. That is hardly 1,604. Even the slippage of the 1,753, if I take highest 10 number also, the highest number one is INR 89.56 crore, 10 is only INR 7 crore. Right. Right. No, I heard you said in your opening remarks. So that is very, very satisfactory. Sir, secondly, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that there will be a time when slippages are lower and then the recovery remains strong. So you would have a reversal of provision. But would you think that that may be the time to increase the buffer on ECL? Any thought process on contingent provisions to prepare the bank for ECL transition? You are very much right. We will think because 95%, 96% is already PCR. So there is no room available to add something there also. I mean, recovery is sometimes two times, three times also. So because ECL, maybe last time also I explained what is ECL. ECL is the how your new underwriting. I have just given the data of the new underwriting where this NPA percentage is 0.3%. So I am also not thinking there will be too much of requirement of the ECL also. But definitely, if there is too much of the recovery is available provision with us, we will not mind. We want to give the strength of the balance. This is the result of the strength of the balance in the last year or the last to last year also. Now we are getting this means whatever you are saying, I fully agree if situation warrant. We will not mind to allocate some of the account of the ECL provision if there is a requirement. No, sir. Have you done any calculation on ECL as to what could be the rough? That we have not done. Okay. And sir, lastly, this recovery this quarter and for the full year of INR 18,000 crore, if you can highlight, sir, how much is retail and how much is corporate? Or these are all small ticket or you are also investing some large ticket corporate recovery also? It will be a mix of everything because NCLT, I've given the number of around INR 3,000 crore+. So that may be from the large account basically. That will be last from the. But it is very difficult to identify which sector. But major NCLT, you can account the entire INR 3,000 crore corporate because we are having the big junk of the small account also of the less than INR 10 lakh, less than INR 1 crore. So it will be a mix of each segment. Right. So INR 3,000 from corporate and rest, maybe INR 15,000 crore from. No, INR 3,000, INR 3,000 only from the INR 3,000 from the NCLT. So NCLT, I am just saying NCLT will be normally is the corporate. And so this will be the mix of the each and everything. Recovery from the 2024, 2025 for quarter one, that is you want from quarter one or the whole of the year? No, no. Full year. Full year, sir. Let me. For whole of the year. Whole of the year, INR 18,000 crore. Whole of the year, I told you INR 3,000 will be the NCLT. So that INR 3,000 crore you can apportion for the particularly for the corporate. I can give the breakup of the recovery of this current quarter also. So if I see it is retail around INR 449 crore, agri around INR 716 crore, MSME around INR 900 crore, other is the INR 1,156 crore. So same proportion I can think. So then if you can bifurcate this INR 3,204.9 crore, it will remain in the same proportion. Some recovery will come from the MSME remaining from the corporate. Last question, sir. If I look at. Yes. Could you please fall back in the question queue? Sure. Sure. No problem. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference room, please limit your questions to two per participant. As there are several participants waiting for their turn. If you have a follow-up question, we would request you to join the queue again. The next question is from the line of Ankit Bansal from AB India. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah. Yeah, Ankit, please go ahead. Hello. Congratulations for the greatest set of numbers in the history of PNB. This is what we want to see, PNB. Very, very congratulations, sir. Very, very congratulations. Number one, we want to see PNB above State Bank of India. Very good number, sir. Majaa gaya, sir. Sir, my question is, sir, how are you seeing the business environment in which sectors are you disbursing more loans? Economy side, how is your perspective? Is the business growing? Are SMEs comfortable in taking loans? What are the sectors, your view, sir? Ankit, our focus is on the RAM. In the last call also, I told you we want to increase this number from 54 to 60. And there is an increase also. It is more than 55%. So focus will be on the retail, RAM, agri, and the MSME because there is a good demand in the sector. Not only in the metro, not in the semi-urban. Even I can tell you there is a good demand in the rural sector also. So there is an opportunity available to the bank to target this segment. And we are having 10,000 branches, most of the branches in the rural and semi-urban. So this is the one area. As far as the other area is regarding corporate is concerned, so there is a good demand in the infra also. Even the budget also INR 1,111,000 crore they have put up in the infrastructure CapEx demand. And so there is a good demand in the rural. And we are also providing considering who is the best customer. So rural, there is a demand. Cement, maybe there is some demand. Some of the corporate borrower, they are coming for the expansion, even steel also. And also there is a demand in the NBFC. But NBFC, we are very cherry-picking. We are very choosy also. If you see my exposure to the NBFC, 99% in the A and above. And AA and above, 98%. So demand is coming from this sector. And the focus area is the RAM. Sir, green energy sector, how is that going? Can you repeat, Ankit? Ankit, please. Green energy sector, sir. Green sector. Green energy, definitely. Green energy, we have the board-approved policy. We have opened separate department under the risk management department. And we will also do this. So we are also doing this solar where we are getting the opportunity we are financing. Okay. Okay. But sir, this is all from me. And I'm proud now to be a PNB shareholder, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ankit. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yash from Citi. Please go ahead. Hi sir. Sir, why do you check on the number for Agri Gold, if you can give? And also second, anything unusual on the slippages because it was significantly lower than the 1Q seasonal trend which we have seen as well in the past. And also agri slippages have been quite low given the usual run rate which you guided in the last quarter for around INR 7 billion-INR 8 billion. The gold, you are asking about the gold. The gold outstanding is INR 7,767 in the agriculture. Retail is INR 720. The total outstanding is around 8,500. Okay. Got it, sir. And on the slippages, sorry, speaking. Slippage around INR 7 crore. No, sir. I just wanted to check on the. Also we will recover. Yeah. Yeah. And sir, on the corporate recoveries, how do you see the corporate recoveries moving from here? Corporate recovery for this particular last quarter, June quarter? Yeah. And how would that impact your recoveries? I could not understand your question. Can you repeat the question? What do you want? So for 1Q, what was the corporate recoveries? And in coming quarters, how would be the impact? Okay. Okay. Okay. The recovery, as I told you, out of the 3,249, basically, the corporate may recover around 1,159. Maybe some part of the MSME, 923, that is also coming in the corporate also some part. So this is the, and as I told you earlier also, the recovery will come probably all the segment also. The INR 3,000 crore number we are expecting from the NCLT. There is so many other accounts which are coming in the category of the corporate. There also recovery is coming through the OTS, other mode, etc. also. So recovery will, because if you see that around 25%, you can easily assume will come from the corporate remaining from the agri and the retail and the MSME. Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashlesh Sonje from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Hi sir. Good evening and congratulations on the result. A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, on the you have given out the NPA ratio in the Pre-Approved Personal Loan portfolio, which was at 1.86%. Can you also share what was the NPA ratio as on March 2024 and a few quarters before that as well? March 2024 in this PAPL, it was around 1.5%-1.6%. I don't have the exact, but it was between the 1.5%-1.6%. There is no much increase, yeah, because I'm monitoring this number every fortnightly. Okay. Got it, sir. And secondly, what would be the reclassification of income which you would have done between the interest income line and non-interest income line because of the penal charge related regulation from RBI? That is not implemented as of date. Okay, sir, because a few other banks have indicated that it has come into force starting 1st of April. Okay. Okay. Okay. I am not aware exact amount. We will give the answer of your query. Yeah, that is all you are right. It was applicable from the 1st of April, yeah. Okay. Sure. Sir, and lastly, on the capital raise front, you have indicated. Could you please fall back in the? I can give the answer. I've got the number also. Around INR 13 crore, we have booked in the penal interest shifted to the penal charges in the fees, other income. Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhavik Shah from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Congrats on the set of numbers. Sir, just two questions. So we mentioned that SMA 1 and 2 is INR 23,000 crore. I just wanted to understand how is it broken up between retail, agri, MSME, and corporates? Bhavik, your voice was breaking. You are asking for the slippage? No, sir. I'm asking for the breakup of SMA 1 and 2, which is INR 23,000 crore. SMA 1, breakup of the SMA 1 and 2. I have the consolidated number as of date. Just a bit, I will give you the number also. So you want SMA 2 number or usually SMA? Because it will take time. I can give you the SMA 0. In the retail, it is around INR 20,000 crore. The SMA 1, INR 6,000 crore retail may. SMA 2 may around INR 6,000 crore. And agri may, SMA 0, INR 16,000 crore. SMA 1 around INR 800 crore. Then SMA 2 is around INR 900 crore. As far as MSME is concerned, SMA 0 is around INR 800 crore. Then INR 4,000 crore+ in the SMA 1. And INR 5,000 crore+ is the SMA 2. Others means corporate then INR 22,000 crore in the SMA 0, INR 110 crore in the SMA 1, and INR 290 crore in the SMA 2. So very clear, sir. Thank you so much. And sir, the Pre-Approved Personal Loans, sir, can you share some light on what are the ticket size and what kind of borrowers are these? See, there is a two type of the PAPL. One is digital mode. In digital mode this maximum eligibility is around INR 10 lakh. So average ticket size is we see it is around sometime between the INR 2 lakh to INR 3 lakh. So as far as other is concern, in that other than digital, there is a, there is also around INR 10 lakh. We are giving. So if you around the between the INR 4 lakh to INR 5 lakh, this is the maximum amount, yes. Okay sir. Thank you. And sir, do we have the last quarter number for SMA also? So you had given a very detailed breakup. If you can share the last quarter number, it will be very helpful. Okay. Okay. We will give you. No problem. Okay. We will give you. Okay. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity again, sir. Can you hear me, sir? Yeah. Please, Rakesh, go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. Yes, sir. So the CET1 would have increased because of market risk weight and including profit. So if you can, if you can tell the CET1, sir, as on June with these two numbers. CET1, you are asking the June 2023 number? June 2024, sir. June 2024 number, CET1 is 82,383. Okay. This is including PAT and impact of the market risk also. This is so let me clarify. Let me clarify you. For the calculation of the capital adequacy ratio, quarterly profit is not added. If notionally, if notionally we will add, our CAR will be more than 40 basis points above. Because 1,000 crore PAT around 13 basis points, it is increasing. So PAT is not included in the CET1 for the computation of this capital adequacy ratio. Only this revaluation reserve, which I told you, INR 373 crore net of tax was added for the CET1. Okay. And sir, just last question, sir, with respect to this credit growth in the fixed loan segment and T-bill related segment. So we have given bifurcation of loans based on lending rates. So where the growth is coming in the fixed rate and T-bill related loans, sir? Fixed rate, normally we fixed rate 10%. It is coming from the agriculture also. You may be aware. The loan up to INR 3 lakh, that is fixed on the 7%, basically. But major portion is from the agriculture side. And T-bill, sir? T-bill, T-bill, so naturally this product we are giving for the loan less than one year. Suppose somebody is having the CC limit that 60% has to be kept in the WCDL. So they are asking for the quote, etc. So T-bill for that. It is less than one year. Got it. Got it. Thanks a lot, sir. And all the best. Very good quarter this time, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Rakesh. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question for today's conference call. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Thank you. Thank you very much. I want to thank each and every who have attended this conference. I want to place on the record continuous support from all of you. Because on account of your continuous support, we are able to perform better and better also. You are encouraging us to do further better. Some of the personnel told me, "You should be better than the share back of the date." That definitely we will keep in the mind also. Somebody has told me, "This is the best quarter." [Foreign language] So with this word, once again, I thank you all of you. I hope whatever the support we are getting from all of you, it will remain continuous. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. On behalf of Elara Securities Private Limited, that concludes the conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.