Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Punjab National Bank Q2 FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by Nuvama Wealth. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Miss Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama Wealth. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this earnings call of PNB, Punjab National Bank. We have with us the entire team of PNB, headed by Mr. Atul Kumar Goel, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Kalyan Kumar, ED, Mr. Vinod Kumar, ED, Mr. M. Paramasivam, ED, and Mr. Bibhu Prasad Mahapatra, ED. With this brief introduction, I'll hand over the floor to the PNB team. Mr. Deepak Singh will read out the disclaimer, after which Mr. Goel will address the conference. Thank you, and welcome again. Ladies and gentlemen, good day to all. Disclaimer statement: I would like to submit that the statements given herein are not guarantees of future performance, and undue reliance should not be placed on them. Such forward-looking statements necessarily involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual performance and financial results in future periods to differ materially from any projections of future performance or results based or implied by such forward-looking statements. Investors are therefore requested to check the information independently before making any investment or other decisions. Thank you. Over to MD and CEO. Thank you very much, Deepak. Very good afternoon to everybody. I welcome all the team from the analysts for this earnings call, as well as the quarterly result for the September, 2024, as well as the half year result of the Punjab National Bank. As far as the gross business is concerned, gross business of the bank increased by 11.9% YoY and stood at INR 25.20 trillion. The combination of the gross business, gross deposit increased by 11.3% and stood at INR 14.58 trillion. The gross advances, there was a good growth in the advances, 12.8% YoY, and is an increase from INR 9.41 trillion of the September 2023 to INR 10.61 trillion. CD ratio is also very comfortable of the bank, it is 72.81%. As far as savings bank and CASA and the current account is concerned, savings bank also there is a YOY growth of 3.7%, and it is increased to INR 4.88 trillion. Similarly, the current account, there is also a positive growth of 1.6% YOY. It was 67,038, and increased to 68,104. CASA of the bank was INR 5.38 trillion in September 2023, which has improved to INR 5.56 trillion with a growth rate of 3.4%. As far as RAM is concerned, the ratio of the RAM to the total advance, which was 55.63% in September 2023, and it was 55.46% in the June 2024, has further improved to 55.77%. As I told you earlier in the last call also, our endeavor is to increase this ratio to 58% by the end of March 2025, and within the range of the 60 to 61 in the three to four-year horizon. As far as the profitability of the bank is concerned, net interest income, which used to be around 9,923 in the September 2023 quarter, has improved to 10,517 crore, with a growth rate of the 6%. As far as operating profit is concerned, it used to be INR 6,216 crore in September 2023 quarter, has increased to INR 6,853 crore, with a growth rate of more than 10%. Net profit, which was INR 1,756 crore in September 2023, has improved to INR 4,303 crore, with a growth rate of 145%. And if even you compare quarter to quarter, quarter to quarter, June 2024, it was INR 3,252 crore, and there is a growth of around 32%. And I think this is the best number we are presenting in the last 14 quarters. With net interest income of INR 10,517 crore, and the operating profit INR 6,853 crore, and the net profit INR 4,303 crore, is the highest in the four to five year in the history of the Punjab National Bank. As far as asset quality is concerned, there is a very significant improvement in the gross NPA as well as the net NPA. Gross NPA, which was INR 65,563 crore in September 2023, has reduced to INR 47,582 crore. And in terms of the percentage, it was 6.96% in September 2023, 4.98% it was in June 2024, has reduced to 4.48% in September 2024, around 50 basis point reduction from the June quarter. Net NPA, which used to be INR 13,114 in September 2023, has reduced to INR 4,674. In terms of the percentage, the net NPA was 1.47% in September 2023 and 0.60% in June, and it has further improved to 0.46%. As far as this guidance for the gross NPA, net NPA is concerned, at the beginning of the year, we have given the guidance, our gross NPA will be around 5% by the end of March 2025. But since in the June 2024 itself, we have reached to 4.98, so we have revised our guidance, our gross NPA will be around 4% by the end of March 2025. Since we have now 4.48, and if you see every quarter, there is a reduction of the 50 basis point. So we are further revising our guidance, our gross NPA should be in the range of the 3.5-3.75, 3.5-3.75 by the March 2024. As far as net NPA, that is very reasonable number, so there is no guidance, 0.5 we have given, that we will maintain. As far as credit cost is concerned, credit cost, it was 1.31% in September 2023 quarter, and 0.32% in the June 2024 quarter, and 0.08, it has reduced to 0.08. So as far as guidance of the credit cost is concerned, at the beginning, we have given the guidance, the credit cost will be around 1% for the current financial year. Considering it was 1.40% in 2023-2024, and 2.03% in 2022-2023. But since we have already reached to 0.32% in June, so we have revised our guidance for the credit cost from 1% to 0.5%. And if you see this average cost of the credit cost is coming for the half year is 0.20%. So we are further revising our credit cost guidance. It will be around 0.25%-0.30% by the end of the full year, for March 2025. reason we are getting, because if you see the, the recovery is more than double, and we have already improved our PCR to 97%. So there is a very hardly little requirement for the aging process, which is coming around 250 every quarter. And as I told you, the recovery is double, so provision will be much more relief as compared to the delinquency, which we have seen in the last four, five quarters. So the delinquency is also reduced. I will give one more number as far as delinquency, what is the, how the new underwriting is behaving, which I used to give every quarter. This is the number for the 51-month, four years, three months. It is from first of July 2020, the, how the new underwriting is behaving. From the first of July 2022 to September 30th, 2024, we have sanctioned INR 9 trillion loan. Out of this INR 9 trillion was INR 8.19 trillion we have disbursed. The outstanding is, new loan is INR 6.31 trillion, which is more than 50% of my total loan book. Out of this outstanding INR 6.31 trillion, the NPA is hardly 2,374, which is coming 0.29% for the new underwriting. I will give further break up of this in a segment-wise. Agri, it is 0.45%, MSME, it is 1.44%, and retail, it is 0.28%, and corporate, it is basically negligible. This is the reason, so we are further revising our credit cost. Even I am seeing there will be a scenario where the negative credit cost will be there, because as I told you, 97% PCR. Recovery is more than double of the delinquency. Delinquency has also reduced. Delinquency, we are giving the guidance for the 3.1%, that we will maintain. As far as capital is concerned, the total capital of the bank is 16.36%, as against 15.79% in the June 2024 quarter, and 15.09% in September 2023. First time in the history of the Punjab National Bank, we have crossed the capital adequacy more than 16%. In the last five, ten years, this is number I am adding. It used to be around 15%-16%, but we have not crossed 16%. The first time we have crossed 16%, and contribution of the 16% is the QIP, which we have raised the current last quarter, September quarter, INR 5,000 crore, and again, since we have received the bid of around INR 41,000 crore, which was more than eight times subscribed, around 65 basis points was the impact of the new capital base. As far as the CET1 is concerned, it is 11.59%, and it is the 10.95% in the June 2024 quarter, and 10.23% in the September 2023. As far as plan for the capital is concerned, we were having the approval of the board for INR 7,000 crore QIP, which we have reduced five thousand, and we have already raised. We are in hand INR 7,000 crore for the AT1 and INR 3,000 crore for the Tier 2. Although, as of yet, there is no requirement for the capital to be raised in the subsequent quarter, but we will see. If rate will be of our choice, so we will not mind to raise part of the AT1 in the current quarter. Current quarter means the December quarter. As far as, cost of deposit is concerned, it was 5.08% in June 2024, and it has further increased 5.16%, because you all are aware, because the deposit on the one-year deposit or the other deposit has increased substantially in the last quarter. The one-year deposit is not available as on date, even between the 7.70%-7.80%. As far as NIM is concerned, we have given the guidance for 2.9%-3%, and we have given the guidance, the absolute number, our NII will be positive, and if you see the last 12 quarters, every quarter, NII in absolute number is more than the earlier quarter. So although we have, as of date, 2.92 is my global NIM and 3.06 is the domestic NIM, so we will remain on the same guidance, 2.9%-3%. Yield of advances was 8.43 in the June quarter, so similar on the same line, it is 8.42, and it used to be around 8.23 in the September 2023 quarter. As far as cost to income ratio is concerned, it was 52% in September 2023, and 53.28% in June 2024, and it has increased to 54.58% in the September 2024 quarter. The reason of the increase in the cost to income ratio is the on account of the AS 15 provision. Last quarter, we have made a AS 15 provision for INR 742 crore, but this quarter, September quarter, we have made a provision of INR 2,057 crore rupees. It means additional, around INR 1,300 crore rupees, we were required to make more provision for AS 15. Reason behind it, because the G-Sec in the June 2024 was 7.01, and it was closed at 6.75 in the September 2024. There was a reduction of around 26 basis points in the G-Sec. On account of the reduction in the G-Sec, as per the actual calculation, we have to provide 1,300 additional. This was the reason of the improvement in the cost to income ratio, increase in the cost to income ratio. Maybe if you see the as on date, further there is an increase in the rate of interest in 10-year, which is hovering around 6.85, so maybe in current quarter, December quarter, this requirement will further reduce. As far as advances increase, we have an increase in the advances is concerned, so we have given the guidance around 11%-12%. We have crossed 12.8%. So retail, there was a growth of 14.62%. Agri, there was a growth of eleven point zero seven percent. MSME, there was a growth, 8.9%. Reason behind that, because some of the MSME account, which was classified under MSME, on account of the increase of the turnover or investment limit, they have come out from the purview of the MSME. So otherwise, if you, we will add that account, particular account, so it is coming more than in double digits. RAM, it is 12.02%. Home, there is a good growth, 19%, as well as vehicle, it is at 25%. As far as movement of NPA is concerned, the opening balance of the gross NPA was 51,263, and 2181 was the addition. I will give the breakout of this fresh addition. The slippage was Agri, INR 565 crore, MSME, INR 621 crore, retail, INR 415 crore, and the others being corporate, INR 470 crore. And the cash recovery was INR 1,508 crore, and the upgradation was INR 1,407 crore, so making the total of the total upgradation, the cash recovery was INR 2,950 crore, and write-off was INR 2,946 crore. The closing figure was INR 5,862 crore, 57, sorry, 47,582. So total recovery, including the recovery in the technically written-off and recovery which we have booked in the recovered on interest, so it was INR 4,891 crore rupees, which was INR 3,249 crore in the previous quarter. So if you see, the recovery was INR 4,891 crore, and slippage was in this quarter INR 2,180 crore, so it was more than 2x. And the target for the entire is INR 18,000 crore. If you add the June and the September recovery, it is coming around INR 8,000 crore. We are confident, because some of the account NCLT is about to resolve in the current quarter or the lastly in the last quarter. So 18,000, we will definitely, we will achieve. As far as SMA more than five crore is concerned, that is hardly INR 2,125 crore. As far as, because normally you used to ask, "How much is the rate charged on the MCLR?" So MCLR around 34% on the MCLR, and repo around external benchmark of 41%, and T-Bill around 8.39, and fixed is around 10%. As far as RAM, as I told you already, 55.77%, and our aim is to increase to 60% in times to come, two- to three-year horizon. One important thing, total unsecured loan book. Total unsecured loan book of the bank is INR 327,170, out of which unsecured retail loan, which is normally the worry of the investors also, is hardly 27,966. The breakup of the INR 27,966 credit card, around INR 1,004 rupees, educational loan 4,333, and personal loan 4,530. In the personal loan, we are receiving the personal, there is no worry in that. The personal loan amount is INR 18,119. Out of this personal loan, the digital PAPL 4,239, and non-digital is the 13,880. So normally, the percentage in this personal loan used to be around 2% and 2.10%, because and that already been factored at the time of pricing this product, and we are also making this at the time of the initial making the what should be the pricing. We have also taken the 2% PD NPA in this product also. As far as NCLT recovery or the NARCL is concerned, NCLT matters around 8,831 accounts we have applied for INR 1.03 trillion. Out of this, 797 accounts of the INR 1.01 trillion has already been admitted. 30 accounts of 1,835 crore is to be admitted, out of which 275 accounts has already been resolved of 47,444 crore rupees, and 304 accounts and already liquidated, 35,120. 218 accounts pending at the various stage, with the amount involved is 19,351. As far as asset transfer to the NARCL is concerned, we have transferred 14 accounts of 3,778. Again, since we have received cash flow as of INR 987 crore, thirteen accounts are under discussion of INR 2,370. Out of these thirteen accounts, in nine accounts, the outstanding INR 1,691, NARCL has already submitted their, which is under evaluation. So this is my initial remarks about the performance of the bank. And once again, I think this is the best result we have shown in the last three to four years. And now, I'm open for any questions, clarification. If you require, I will try to give the answer. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from line of Nitin Aggarwal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah, hi, good evening, sir. Congrats on a very strong quarter. Thank you, Nitin. Thank you very much, yeah. Also achieving the milestone of 1% ROA well ahead of the guidance. Deliberately, I have not touched in my initial remarks, because I want to hear from you. So it's maybe one, one more thing I can tell you also, because we have given the guidance for the 0.8% for the entire year, and we have given the guidance, it will be 1% at the exit of the current financial year. Since we have already achieved more than 1%, the half year, it is around 0.92%, so we are revising our guidance. It will be around 0.9% to 1% for all of the year, from the 8% earlier guidance. Okay, sir. Noted. And so, my first question is on the, like, contingent provisions. This quarter, we have made a small amount, but now that you are indicating that the credit cost, we have already reduced the guidance second time on credit cost now, and there is a possibility it may be negative also, as you mentioned. So will we look to make contingent provisions and prepare ourselves for NPAs transition as and when it starts? So what is your thought on that line? Nithin, look, already we have made a provision of INR 354 as a floating provision for the NPA. And you, you are worried about the ECL, et cetera. Also, 97% already we are having the PCR. What is ECL provision? ECL provision is how is your new underwriting behaving. I have already given the 51-month data of the new underwriting. 9.9 trillion, we have sanctioned. 8.19 trillion, we have dispersed. 6.31 trillion is the outstanding, which is around 60% of my total loan book. And out of this, 2,374. Even if you see the OTR, OTR one and OTR two, INR 170 crore provision we have made additional as against the requirement of the 5% and 10%, and we are, we are making 2.5%. So I think there is no need for the further provision. Also, already five hundred, three hundred and fifty, we have made a provision for the floating provision in this quarter, and total is the five hundred. Right. Right, sir. But will this be enough? Like, when you look at the total ECL provisions, whenever it kicks in, will this much be enough? Yeah, it will not be appropriate whether it is enough, because we have not calculated. I told you, actually, we should wait for the final guidance, because there is a different method is being used by the different banks. So the moment we will get the guidance. So this I can tell you, PNB will not be the outlier. Earlier, there was a worry because we were having the highest NPA, highest gross NPA, and so everybody was worried, ECL provision, the PNB will be the outlier. So as long as that worry, it's gone. Okay. Sure, sir. And second question is on the credit deposit ratio. It looks like the PNB has a very good room to expand on that. It is very well positioned to pursue credit growth, but credit deposit ratio over last one year has been in a very narrow range. So why are we not using this lever to expand margins? Because margins is one area wherein we are seeing some softness, and which is like similar to the other banks also. So what is your thought on that, like on the credit deposit? Nitin, look in margin. In margin, I told you also, key, if you see, we have given the guidance 2.9%-3%, because ultimately it depends on which type of underwriting you are doing. We can increase the margin. We can increase the margin, but there is a risk of the slippage also. And moreover, you see what is our AAA, AA, etc., also. So this is the reason, because there is some transaction, because PNB is one of the largest banks. There is some transaction where I am getting only 1%-2%. If I have to maintain 3% or more than 3%, you may be happy, so it means I should not do such type of the transaction. This is the reason I am telling again and again, key, there are so many misleading. We will not keep the guidance on 2.3 to 2.9, to 2.9 to 3%. But in absolute number, in absolute number, if you see the NIM every quarter is increasing. I am not naming the bank, one of the big bank. The number of the this current quarter, negative 400 with the NIM number. So this is the reason, key, we are not going to change. Margin, we are seeing, but we are seeing where we can get the more margin also. We are doing that one also. But if there is some account people, we are not in a position to make more margin also. So in terms of the percentage, NI, NIM will be reduced, but ultimately it will add to my absolute number. Okay, sir. Got it. And the last question is on the OpEx, wherein, QoQ, we have seen a sharp rise in the employee provisions. So what has driven this, and how should we, like, factor in for the coming quarters on that? Actually, it is a function of the rate of return. As I explained in my initial remarks also, the 7.01 was the earlier G-Sec, which has been due to 6.75. So there was a reduction of around 26 basis points. Last quarter, we made 742. This year, on account of the 26 basis points, so increase 2,057. So I do not foresee, because if you see as of date also, it is hovering around 6.85. So definitely, it will remain in the same range, so the claim will be very less for the next quarter. ... Okay, sir. Got it. Thank you, and wish you all the best. Thank you, Nitin. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello, sir. Congrats on the quarter and the successful turnaround of Punjab National Bank. Firstly, sir, what is the LCR, liquidity coverage ratio, and is there scope to further reduce liquidity on balance sheet? As far as the Liquidity Coverage Ratio is concerned, it was around 149%. On account of the revised guideline, also a draft guideline, so around there is a difference of around ten basis points. So the requirement of the 100%, so we will be in a position, we will maintain more than that also. So we, although impact will be there on account of the draft guideline, if it is really implemented, so around 10%-11% it will be different. What is the level we are comfortable with? Actually, we are comfortable it should be around, because 100% is the requirement, 115, between 115 to 120, but minimum of 115 we would like to have. Okay. Sir, and on your slide 18 in the PPT, there is a CG recap bond, INR 55,000 crore. Sir, what is that? That is the government has injected the capital, na? That is, because they have injected the capital, then we have subscribed the bond also. Sorry, sir, can you please repeat? Whatever the government has increased the capital, suppose they have increased INR 55,000 crore as the capital, so by that, that has been increased the capital adequacy ratio. INR 55,000 crore, same amount we have subscribed the government bond also. Okay, so you bought government bonds, and then the government infused capital? Right. Very much right. Right. Okay, okay. Understand. And, our credit cost guidance for the year, is it, 0.5% or 0.25%? Actually, beginning it was 1%, then June it was 0.5%. As on date, for the half year, it is coming around 0.2. So we are giving the guidance, it should be around 0.25 to 30, 0.30 basis point. Understood. Understood. Okay, sir, that was it from my end. Thank you, and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Gao Zhixuan from Schonfeld. Please go ahead. Hey, sir. Congratulations on good quarter. Just two direct questions. First of all, on the margins, do we have an impact from reclassification of penal interest into, you know, penal incomes, that impacted some of our peers? That is definitely there, because some of the amount which we were using as penal interest, that is not coming under the interest calculation now, that is coming under the other income also. Do you mind share what's the rough quantum of it? Can you repeat your question? Do you mind sharing, you know, what's the impact on margins this quarter because of the- It would be one basis point. Nothing more. Got it. And on gross linkages, Yeah. You know, there's a slight tick up on a sequential basis, obviously from a favorable level. But just, you know, wondering what's driving that, and does that include some of the, you know, NPA corporates that we hear in the news? You are right. Actually, if you see, we have given the guidance for the 1%. Even as on date, it is less than 1% also. It was INR 2,181 crore. There was one account which, I think you are trying to ask. That was around INR 420 million. Otherwise, the second highest slippage was around INR 35 crore only. Got it. So INR 430 crores from that one account? Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, sirs. In terms of numbers, very good performance, especially on the recovery front, sir. Sir, just on the personal loan, you had given some data point on the, in your opening remark. What is the gross slippage that we have, sir, posted on this personal loan in this quarter, sir? The Personal Loan, INR 18,190, is the total loan. Okay. Apart from the payment, that is also in the personal loan, that is INR 4,513. So there is no issue because pension is coming. Out of this INR 18,000 crore, it is around 2%. Gross NPA? Yeah, gross NPA. The slippage in this quarter, sir? It is on the same line. It doesn't mean that there was a much difference in the last quarter, in this quarter also. It remain in the same range. Got it. And sir, margin movement is very, like, you know, very peculiar this quarter. So if you look at the slide number 23, we have, in loan advances from June quarter to September quarter, almost at 8.42, and, cost of fund has, you know, has slightly gone up by around eight basis points this quarter. But the funding cost number, cost of fund number is flat, and AUM fund number is like, you know, coming down, so it... But AUM investment is flat. So what is driving, you know, lower AUM funds, though the AUM advances number is flat, AUM investment number is flat, so why AUM fund is coming down, sir?... from 7.237 seven point two three to seven- It is on account of some of the overseas loan book also. But this slide does not include, so I am looking at the global number, sir. Global number is 8.42, as compared to 8.43. Yeah. Yield on investment is 7.06. So yield on fund is coming down from 7.23 to 7.13. Why is that? Seven point? Yield on funding is coming from seven point? 2.3 to 7.13. Tangible fall is there in the yield on fund, so why was that, sir? Yeah, you have to see the composition. Okay, please try to understand what is the composition of the advances, what is the composition of the investment. Because if you see the outstanding of the investment has increased in this quarter. This is the reason it is coming down. Okay, sir. We will take that offline, sir. So there is a rise in the growth and- There is no need for the offline. I am trying to please understand. What I am telling you, what was the advances growth in the advances group? What is the growth in the investment group? Growth in the investment group is much more as compared to the advances group. This is the reason this is coming down. Correct, sir. I was also coming to that. Non-SLR growth is very high, especially in the others category. Yeah, yeah. So what is that, sir? Others in- That is, investment in the CD et cetera also. Because sometimes we were having the extra liquidity also, so we have parked that all in the CD of the banks. Okay. Drop in the fee income, especially in the processing fee in this quarter. Processing fee, we used to charge in the first quarter only for the entire year. This is the only reason. Okay. Okay, got it, sir. Got it, sir. Very good, sir. Thanks, thanks so much, sir. Thanks for taking my questions, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Ashok Ajmera from Ajcon Global. Please go ahead. Good evening and compliments to you, Atul sir, and the entire team of PNB for the fantastic results. In fact, you are improving all the, you know, your performance on all the parameters quarter after quarter. I think in last, if you see 10, 12, 15 quarters, continuously there is improvement. Now, I mean, we can say that the Punjab National Bank has, you know, has overcome all the previous negative legacies and everything, and it's firing on all the cylinders. So compliments for the same, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. Having said this, sir, I have got just a couple of few questions and some observations. Sir, on the profitability front, if you look at the... Basically, from the non-interest income point of view, there is a major improvement in the, right from the recovery in the written-off account group, and some treasury income, in this quarter, if you compare with the last quarter of INR 1,581 crore as compared to INR 648 crore. That is sale of, I mean, good profit on sale of investments, good profit on the revaluation of the assets. So my question is that, going forward, do we expect in the remaining two quarters of the current financial year, the same performance of the treasury, so as to assess the correct profitability of the bank for the whole FY twenty-five? That is the first question. Yeah, definitely, Ashokji, definitely. Because as on date also, if you see my total, the TWO book, it is 92,584. It is the gold mine for the Punjab National Bank. So whatever the recovery in the technical write-off we have made in the last quarter, the same or even the more also we can expect in the current quarter, as well as in the last quarter of the current financial year. Treasury income is also. We will be in a position because my treasury is very active. Not only the SLR or non-SLR, even we are making the good profit in the equity funding also. Yeah. So that's basically treasury front. Even in the trading book also, I think there seems to be a good... Yeah. Good profit on that. Yeah. Sir, a data point, just calculation of tax. So tax, if you look at this current half year, I think, on the profit of INR 11,834 crore, our provision is INR 4,276 crores. It's almost about 36%. Yeah. on the, on the tax front. And we have not discussed this for a couple of quarter on the tax front, DTA and other things. So can you, can the treasury, I- I understood your question, Ashok. Yeah. Actually, we have not shifted to the new regime. This is the reason. Because earlier also, we have explained in the last con call also, because we are in the old regime, this is the reason it is coming 36%, because we are having some of the claim, which is available. If we will shift to the new regime, then we have to forgo. So this is the reason, it is a matter of time. Moment we will shift to the new regime, definitely there will be around ten basis points increase in the ROA, only from this entry. How much is that total carry forward and benefit and the supported by the- Not only carry forward, it is some other benefit also, MAT, et cetera, also. It is not only one MAT, MAT and. There is so many other things also, we will shift to the new, so we have to forward that. This is the reason, it is a matter of time only. The moment I will be in a position to exhaust all our already benefit, then we will go to the new regime also. We have discussed this matter with our consultant, so he advised, the immediately, immediately there is no need to shift from the old regime. ... Yes, point well taken. Sir, on the employee benefit front, you have talked about AS 15, and because of that, there is an increase in the overall employee cost. But sir, similar in this quarter, we have not seen in the couple of other banks which have come out with their results, this kind of major impact because of AS 15 in this quarter. So was there something different in our bank on that? Even in Bank of Baroda, there was hardly any difference in the overall employee cost in this quarter. So, Yeah, going forward, I have- Yeah. Actually, I have explained to you what is the reason. Seven point... You are also a chartered accountant. Yeah. 7.01 to 6.75. If there is a decrease of thirty-six basis points, so AS 15 is definitely bound to increase also. So we are making on the quarterly basis. I don't know about the other bank also, but I am telling you, the on account of the decrease in the point sixty, this is the reason every quarter there is a fluctuation in the last quarter it was 7.42. Even in the September 2023, it was 5.80. So every quarter we are making. I don't know whether the other bank are making on the quarterly basis or the yearly basis also, this may be the reason. But every quarter we are giving the these changes. Sir, one last question in this round is on NCLT, I mean, NARCL, and the you had given some data point, I think, 14 accounts, INR 3,771 crore, and you said that the cash recovery is INR 987 crore, isn't it? No, no, no. 987 is the, I told you, total recovery. Cash plus SR, cash plus SR. 15% of the 987 is the cash recovery. in, out of nine... So balance is the SR. Guaranteed SR. Yeah. Yeah. Guaranteed SR. Guaranteed by the government. Yeah. Which must have been 100% provided for? Definitely, because as on date, there is no different treatment given by the regulator for the sale to the NARCL or the ARC, although there is a demand. But because the, once we are transferring the asset to the ARC, that is hundred percent provided. This is the reason carrying cost of the ARC is zero. Yeah. No, but it goes in the benefit. You know, ultimately- Yeah. We can assess that this amount, in any case, is going to come when it is. Right. Right. Guaranteed and it strengthen your book, basically. Sir, just if you permit me one more thing. Sir, we have done exceedingly well on the credit front, as compared to many of the other peer banks, in this quarter also and overall half year also, if you see. So sir, going forward, if you maintain the same tempo, are you revising your credit growth target also for FY2025, just like other targets which you have improved, even on the credit growth front also? 11%-12% we have given. Between 11%-12%, and if you see, it is 12.80%. So I can safely say that we will be in a position to attend 12%. But if opportunity will be available, so the opportunity will be available, we will not allow opportunity to go, get down from the, from the Punjab National Bank, because there should be demand also, no? Because corporate, I may be honest, too, there is no much demand. Yeah. Even as of date also, I am having the sanction limit of the one trillion, which they are not utilizing. But you have done very well in MSME front also. I think where, you know, in your, this book, MSME and retail, you perform very well. So, and corporate business also will come, so we can hope that the, this current six months now, next six months will be better than what you have even achieved in the first half year. Thank you very much, sir, and all the very best. Thank you. I will come back again, if time permits, for some more chat. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is on the line of Marshall, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. Yeah, my first question is regarding this employee cost. Mr. Ajmera asked, but, like, but the voice of Mr. Goel was not very clear, so I just want to ask you this, that, the employee cost has gone up by INR 1,205 crore in this quarter. So is it because of some one-time provision, or this kind of number is going to continue in the, in the subsequent quarter also? No, no, no, no. I may explain also. It is a AS 15 provision. No, no. It is not an actual outgo. Let me clarify. It is not an actual outgo. It is a provision we have to make based on the actual calculation. The reason behind that was this increase, if you see the 10-year G-Sec, in June it was 7.01, and the September twenty-fourth, the 10-year G-Sec has reduced to 6.75. On account of this twenty-six basis points decline in the interest rate, this additional provision has come. So it will not be reckoning. Even if the, if interest rates will become harder in the times to come also, so it may be reversal also. So it is not a one time, because if you see the last quarter, it is only 742. No, sir, I am asking regarding employee cost. Employee cost has gone up by INR 1,205 crores. No, no, no. Mainly, employee cost has not gone. You see, employee cost, it is added. Employee cost, it is, sorry, it is already added in the employee cost. No, no, sir, like, this quarter, employee cost key amount, INR 1,205 crore is more compared to June quarter. Why it has increased? Because, like, the increment or settlement was already accounted for in the March quarter itself. So why it has gone up so drastically this quarter, employee cost? Let me tell you once again. The AS 15 provision was INR 2,057 crore for this quarter, and the June quarter, it was INR 742 crore. If you will make the difference, it's INR 1,300, the AS 15 provision only. If you see the actual payment of the employee cost, it is on the same line. It is equal. I can give you the number also. The payment of the employee, I will give you. This is INR 3,692 crore for this quarter, and it was INR 3,808 crore in the earlier quarter, so there is a reduction of INR 200 crore. No, sir, so whatever provision we are doing, is it over or this provision will still continue? That's my question. It is a, it depends on every quarter. Maybe if rate of interest, because as of date, rate of interest is 7.685. So there will be a reduction, reduced requirement in the current quarter. No, no, I'm just like, So it means this kind of provision is going to continue for some more quarters, or only one, two quarters, this will continue? No, no, no, it will remain. It is a, it is not... Whatever the provision we have made, it is a total provision, it is a cumulative figure. Please try to understand. Okay. The provision we have made for this, this quarter, 2,057. So if we will add 2,057, so it has already been added. So cumulative will remain same. If there is a change of the interest rate in the coming quarter, that cumulative total provision will change. Only incremental will change. Yeah, right. Very much right. Now, you are understood, yeah. So it means cumulative till this quarter, we have finished all the provision- Right. and whatever plus, minus can happen, only that will happen. Very good. Very much right. Now, you understood. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful, sir. Sir, my second question regarding this other income, which has gone up by INR 1,049 crores. So how much is the recovery in this part, INR 987? Recovery in this particular quarter is INR 1,369 crore. Like Reliance Capital account is already considered there, or it will come in this quarter, next quarter? It has already been taken in the September quarter, one thousand three hundred sixty-nine. Okay. Already it is a part of the other income. Okay. So, sir, my question that, like, this other income, this kind of recovery, like it is very good recovery you have made in this quarter. So whether this temperament or this tempo will continue in the December and the March quarter also, or like this will subside? Definitely, because I am having the TWO book of 92,584. It is the gold mine of the Punjab National Bank. And this, if you see, 1,000, the 1,630 was in the March quarter also, and 1,369 in the September quarter. June quarter, it was 859. So normally it will remain with the range of the 1,000 to 1,500, easily every quarter we are making it. Sir, where can I see this figure of ninety-four thousand? Because in the deck, in the PPT, in the slide thirty-four, I can see only fifty-four thousand four seventy-two crores. No, no, that is not in the PPT. I'm telling you total NPA, TWO book is the 92,584 is TWO, and 47,582 is the gross NPA. If you will add both, so my total recovery book is INR 1,40,166 crore. Beautiful, sir. Sir, my last question that this provision has been- Back to the question queue for any follow-up questions. Next question. Rakesh, please allow. Rakesh, Rakesh, no, no issue, please. Yeah, Mahrukh, please allow. No issue. Yeah. Uh, so- The next question is regarding credit cost. Please, please go ahead. Sir, Mr.... His line got disconnected. We can move on to the next question, and then once he chooses to start on again, we can let him answer. Yeah, please. Yeah? Please. Our next question is from the line of Suraj Das from Sundaram AMC. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, am I audible? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, please, please, please, Suresh, yeah. Hi, sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, two question. One, the floating provision that you are doing, where does it reside? Is it on the standard, provision line item, which is 83 crores this quarter? Is it included? No, no, no. It is a NPA provision. 350 we have made for this quarter, and cumulative provision is 500. It is a part of the NPA provision, it is a part of the credit cost. Okay, so it is part of this 199 crore number that- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise, yeah, if we would not have made INR 350 crore provision, the credit cost would have been a negative credit cost. Yeah. Understood, sir. And sir, on this, the below line item, standard asset provision, 83 crore, it seems like, I mean, since we have also restricted book, which is coming down- Yes. There is, the incremental provision requirement is very less on the standard assets. Yeah. So how long this can continue, sir? I mean, what kind of headroom still you have in terms of, you know? It depends on the June 2019 circular. Some of the account which they have come out from this category also, so there might be some reversal also, there might be some addition provision for the other account. It depends on the if the exposure of that particular account is much more for a particular limit. But since our SME more than INR 5 crore is very less, INR 2,125 crore, so I do not foresee any issue which will be requiring us to make more provision for the standard. Because it depends on the banking industry, not only the Punjab National Bank. If some individual is having the exposure more than INR 2,000 crore, then only we have to make this provision for the June 2019, yeah. Thousand, thousand- INR 2,500. No, one thousand five. One thousand five. One thousand five hundred, yeah. Okay, sure. And sir, one last question, in terms of this quarter growth, if I look at both on deposit and advance rates, the overseas segment has contributed, you know, very favorably. So anything specific that is happening there, or is it just one quarter phenomenon? In last quarter also, the last quarter was the same growth, June, as far as the trade is concerned. But definitely this quarter, some growth in the deposit is better as compared to the last quarter. Okay. So this quarter, I think the deposits and advances growth on the overseas is something like 14% QOQ. Anything, any particular segment that is driving that? Our guidance is 12% for whole of the year. Okay, sure. Thanks. Thanks so much, sir. All the best. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Yash Darak, from RSPN Ventures. Please go ahead. Hi there. Thank you for taking our question. First of all, congratulations for a good set of numbers. Most of my questions were answered. I just had a couple of key questions. So first question is that we've observed among our peers that a big PSU telecom company is facing some stress. So do we have any exposure in that? Definitely, we are having the exposure there. Already, we recognize in the two thousand one hundred something, already recognized. The exposure, INR 434. Okay, INR 434 crore roughly. And we've already provided for it? Yeah. Already recognized, and it is in the figure of the 2100 crore. Yeah. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Second question is, sir, on the deposit repricing. We were observing from last few quarters that the deposits were being repriced. So, has that scenario been over now? And the NIM guidance that you maintain considers the scenario that deposit pricing has been completed? I fully agree with you. I think, deposit rate, or in my opinion, deposit has already reached the peak. So we do not foresee any, further increase in the deposit. So whatever the guidance for the next 2.9 to 3, I think we will be in a position to maintain it. Yeah. Okay. Sir, just one final question, if I can squeeze in. This is in regarding that RBI had recently introduced some rules and regulation regarding the infrastructure loan book and provisions on infrastructure loans, and against which bank, the banks hasn't made, has made some representation to the statutes. So has there been any development in this scenario? As of yet, we have not. Whatever the draft guidelines has come, that is still. We have not received the final guideline yet. Okay. Okay, sir. Thanks a lot. These were the questions from my end. All the best. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Kunal Shah from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for taking the question. Most of the questions have been answered. One thing with respect to PNB Housing, this entire new draft circular which has been there, which talks about the group company. Obviously, it's an associate, but still the group entity, which says that it cannot carry on the business similar to that of a bank. So would maybe in terms of having of a stake in that subsidiary, we can maybe prepone that, taking into account that draft circular, or what would be our overall stance on the holding in PNB Housing Finance? As of yet, there is no plan. We are reviewing whatever the draft guidelines is coming. We will discuss in the board. As of yet, we have not decided. Yeah. Okay. Sure, sure. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Jai Mundhra from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir, good evening, and congratulations on 1% ROA, sir. So my first question is, you mentioned that the central PSU account in telecom that you have already recognized as an NPA. And we wanted to check, sir, what could be the provisions here that you would have made? Provision, I think it is not appropriate, otherwise we have made a good provision. Actually, I think individual account, we should not discuss. Okay. Certainly, sir, you would have the other stressed steel PSU account that is still in SMA or what is the status? Or that has... You think that will be resolved? How should we understand? That is, that is with the SMA with the other bank, but as of yet, because that is a working capital with me, so my account is okay, but we have to see in totality. Yeah. Okay. And sir, what would be your total SMA one and two, including below five crores account also? I mean, you- Total SMA one is the INR 14,688, and SMA two is the INR 13,509 for the whole book. Okay, and if you have the SMA zero number also, sir? Zero number is INR 12782. But as of date, if you ask me, because there is an accounting issue also, because some of this amount is doing in the first week, so it is coming one day, it is coming SMA zero. So as of date, this SMA zero has reduced from the INR 12728 lakh toINR 21579. Mm-hmm. And last question, sir, is we look at revaluation of investment income, right? Yeah. Because RBI has permitted that the banks can accrue the notional gain also. Is there any, I mean, so we have, and I think if I remember right, we have done around the treasury income is around INR 700 crores. Would you believe that this number will stay? Or, I mean, what is this number linked to? I mean, what could drive this number lower or higher this quarter? Is it like equity M2M or bonds M2M, or what is it? Thank you. See,INR 761 is the trading profit. Let me clarify you, Jai Mundhra.INR 761 is the real profit, which is the profit from the G-Sec, which is the profit from the non-SLR, and the profit from the equity also. In addition to that, because on account of the change of the new balance of the valuation, there was another INR 731 crore INR added in the P&L for the revaluation in this time. Yeah. So because our Treasury is very active, so we are open because if you see the last quarter, we have made INR 325. So it depends only yield, et cetera, also. So, our Treasury is very active, so we will be in a position to make good profit in the times to come also. No issue. Okay. Yes. Great, sir. Thank you and all the very best, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Saurabh from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead. Sir, just two questions. So one is, historically on your written off book, what's the recovery rate that you get? So that's the first one. And secondly, what is the total magnitude of AFS reserves that you have right now? Actually, 92,584 is the TW book. Normally, within the range of 1,000-1,500, we are recovering every quarter. The AFS book is 1 lakh 9,650, which is around 23.3% of the total investment book. No, no, sir, I was asking, so normally, like over a cycle of the ninety thousand crores, how much will be your recovery? It will be 10%, 15%, how much should? Around INR 5,000 crore rupees we are recovering every year, so you can think it is around 5%-6%. 5%-6%. Okay. Okay. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Anand Dama from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just want to ask a question related to your overseas loan book that is expanding at a very fast pace. What is the reason? What are these kind of loans that you are expanding, giving to, or what kind of corporates are there in the sector that you can give? Actually, Anand, it is a combination of all. It is a RAM. There is a growth in the RAM also. I will give you some of the number of the RAM. If you see the retail, the number was INR 544,945.54 in June 2024. So it has increased to INR 564,000. So INR 20,000 crore, more than INR 25,000 crore in increasing the RAM. Even retail also, retail around INR 15,000 crore is increased there. And another is the corporate. There is also increase in the NBFC side, and there is an increase in some of the renewable projects, solar, et cetera. So it is a combination of all. So main in the RAM, RAM is the focus area. There is some increase in the NBFCs also, but all are basically AAA, and that is the other corporate advances, yeah. The major part is the road and the another is the solar, renewable energy. My question was specifically related to overseas loans. Can you repeat? Yeah, Anand, can you repeat? My question is related to overseas loan book, which is expanding- Overseas. Adding up your margin. Overseas, basically, most of the exposure is on the bank or buyer's credit. Yeah. Okay, but BC also, sir, because that book to some extent is dragging your margin down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. While you are doing so much- Margin is, no doubt, margin is less. Yeah. So is it basically that you can cut down the exposure to overseas anytime soon, like, or you will keep, Which is we are having why, why there is a need of the cut down the exposure also? Because ultimately, we have to see whether we are earning or not. As I told you, in my initial months, also in some of the transactions, if we are getting 1%, 2%, or even less than 1%, why we should allow that opportunity should go down from the Punjab National Bank? Because we are not concerned about the 3% need. We are concerned the absolute number of the net interest income. Sure. Sir, is it possible to share what is the LCR for this quarter? LCR, I told you, 129%. 129%. Draft guidance is there is a dip of around 10%-11%. Okay. If the new draft guidance come, it will come down by around 10%-11%. Sure, sir. Thanks. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Next is a follow-up question from the line of Rakesh Kumar from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity again. So just I was coming back to the same question on the, you know, change in the, you know, yield on funds. So I was looking at cash, investment, and advances composition, you know, as a percentage to your deposit and borrowings. So I find that, you know, there is a decrease in the cash balances number as a percentage of deposit and borrowings. And also there is a decrease in the advances number and increase in the investment number. And some of the, you know, gap has been funded by the equity around INR 4,200 crores, but still the margin is coming down. So the margin for what we have seen in this quarter's, like, you know, like, should we see this as a kind of a, you know, regular thing going ahead also? Or, what is that? Because probably we have used the QIP money, I think is in this quarter. The cash may be there on account of the QIP money. It is not a general, because I told you that sometimes if we are having the liquidity, where we will park the liquidity, either in the short-term investment opportunity available, where the yield is less. So this is the only reason which I explained you also, but it is not for a long period also, very short period also. Okay. Got it, sir. Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Our next follow-up is from the line of Marshall, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sir, my question was that, this quarter, provision has also reduced by 1,024 crores. So are we going to, like, whether this provision will sustain to this level, what it was there in the September quarter, or it can also spike in the September quarter? Provision, there is a 3-4 provision. Which provision, the provision as far as credit cost is concerned, we have already revised our guideline. So the provision for the NPA will further reduce, and these standard assets also. I do not foresee there will be any increase in the provision, and OTR one, OTR two, we have already made 170% additional provision, which I told you. The only the provision for the income tax will be the main provision, and other, I do not think there will be any increase in the other provision also. Okay. And sir, like this, we also made a floating provision of INR 350 crore. So what is the purpose for which this floating provision can be utilized? This floating provision is permitted by the regulator. INR 350 crore we have made for this quarter. Cumulative provision is INR 500 crore. INR 150 crore we have made earlier also. So this will help to reduce and to maintain our net NPA number. No, I understand, but what I'm saying, like, because in the other banks, I was reading through that, like they mentioned that this floating provision can't be utilized without the prior approval of regulators. So- So therefore I'm asking you, like, for what kind of things this can be utilized? Yes, sir. Yeah, with the permission of the, if in the bad time there is a requirement to use this provision, then we have to take the permission from the regulator. Okay, sir. Okay, so my last question regarding the CASA. So what specific steps will, like, the, like the bank is taking to increase the number of current accounts, sir? Okay, point number one, I will give you the savings as well as the current account. CASA is definitely a challenge, not for the Punjab National Bank, for the entire industry. But we are having 10,000, more than 10,000 branches, more than 24,000 customers, and we have provided all the branches with the Tab banking. So time for opening of the new account has already been reduced. Last year we have opened more than one crore savings accounts, and the first quarter we have opened more than 16 lakh accounts, the money will come in this account. Your specific question for the current account, so last year we have opened 2.68 lakh accounts. In first half, we have already opened 1.21 lakh. We have also provided this corporate mobile app, which was not available earlier, which we have launched in the last month only. So by using this, corporate mobile app, so definitely we are hopeful that there will be increase in the current account opening, as well as the balance in the current account. Beautiful, sir. Beautiful, sir. Sir, you are doing fantastic, sir. All the best, sir. All the best. Jai Shri Ram. Thank you. Thank you. Jai Shri Ram. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Ashlesh Sonje from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congratulations on a very strong quarter. Thank you. So first question is on the slippages side. If I look at the Agri slippages, they gone up quite sharply on a YoY basis. Any reason for that? Slippage, you are asking about the slippage, no, YoY? Agri slippage. INR 1826- INR 2181. Sir, no, just the Agri part, Agri slippages for the quarter, which is about INR 570 crores. Can you? Agri, agri. You are asking for the agri? Correct. Yes. INR 565. INR 565 is the, for the Agri. Normally, it keep within the INR 500, INR 600, because we are having the book of the more than INR 1 trillion. So sometime INR 500, INR 600, there is no much difference. Yeah. Okay, sir. Sir, and secondly, on the PSU account, which has slipped this quarter, are there any other PSU, large PSU accounts which are sitting in the SMA book for you? Normally, you not worry. Only one account was only in the SMA that we have already recognized. As I told you, as on date, I do not find. Okay, sir. Perfect. Thanks a lot. Thank you. A reminder to the participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. As there are no further questions, I request Mr. Atul Kumar Goel for any closing comments. Thank you very much once again. I think this was the one of the best quarter as far as the Punjab National Bank is concerned, and whatever the guidance we have given, I think we have achieved most of the guidance, except the CASA, and the most important was the ROE also. Although we have given the guidance that we will be in a position 1% by the exit of the current financial year, but we have achieved. So I think with the support of all the my investor also, and the analysts also, and I assure you, whatever the number we have shown in the coming quarter and the coming to next last quarter of the current financial year, we will be in a position to show the better performance, whatever we have shown this quarter. On behalf of Nuvama Wealth, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.