Hi, everyone, welcome to PB Fintech Earnings Call Quarter 4, Financial Year 2023-2024. Today we have with us Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and CEO PB Fintech, Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman PB Fintech, Sarbvir Singh, Joint Group CEO PB Fintech, Naveen Kukreja, Co-Founder and CEO Paisabazaar, Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO PB Fintech, and I'm Rasleen. I would now request Yashish to give his introductory address. Thank you very much, and good morning to everybody who's in this part of the world. First of all, I'm super pleased with this last quarter. The primary reason for that is health and life insurance combined, which is the core of our business and a bulk of our long-term value, had a combined growth of 53% year-on-year in new premiums for the quarter. That is clearly what drives our long-term profitability and our net present value of our business. Health, I must call out, has significantly outperformed this number of 53%, but we do not disclose specific segment-wise percentages. Our total insurance premium for the quarter was INR 5,123 crores, and that gives us an ARR of INR 20,000 crores, which was also a long-awaited milestone. We are also very pleased about that. And our new insurance premium grew at 47% for the quarter, which, given everything else, seems like a fantastic outcome. Our core insurance premium, so for our online business, the insurance premium, including renewals, grew at 40%, and the core insurance revenue grew at 36%. It was slightly lower than the 40% growth, and that is primarily because of a lower take rate of the savings side and a few changes. Quarter-on-quarter, a few changes keep happening here and there, but that's basically it. The credit-linked business, Paisabazaar, has slowed down pretty much as expected. So we had been guiding towards a 20% growth. It grew at 22%. If you notice this quarter, we are giving out this very specific guidance of how much did core insurance grow, how much did core, we usually do not do that, but it is because there's a number that just needs to be explained here. New initiatives grew at 15%. Now, that may seem like it wasn't a great growth, but that is actually not the case. Quarter-on-quarter, new initiatives grew at 50%. So last year, we had an extraordinary same quarter where we had grown more than 100% quarter-on-quarter. So if you think about it, last year, Q3, new initiative revenue was INR 185 crores. It went to INR 365 crores, which was almost a doubling. So it was a very special quarter, and it was very difficult to grow on that INR 365 crore base. But we still grew at 15%. But because of a significant part of the revenue, that subdues the overall revenue outlook to 25%. So the combination of these three essentially comes out to 25%. So we had aimed for a full-year PAT breakeven, and we are very happy to announce that we achieved that ahead of the target in Q3 itself and have now ended the year with a PAT of INR 64 crores from a loss of INR 488 crores last year. This is a swing of INR 552 crores. I think if you were to ask me my own opinion, I think the INR 64 crores, in my estimate, is a little below where I expected it to be. And as I said, there are quarter-on-quarter movements, which you sometimes cannot control. So that's the way it is. Our revenue for the year grew 34% to INR 3,438 crores. Revenue for our online marketplaces, Policybazaar and Paisabazaar, which we refer to as the core businesses, grew 39% to INR 2,375 crores, while improving their Adjusted EBITDA margin from 6% to 14%. Adjusted EBITDA for these businesses is now INR 324 crores. See, our trail revenue this year was, again, a very special year because of the growth of health. I have explained it multiple times. In fresh health business, our margin goes down to zero for that year, obviously. So what you see is approximately 45% coming out on a standalone basis for Policybazaar core. But when we do fresh health business, the part of that is zero. So any disproportionate growth in fresh health will actually reduce margins. And some of that you would see. But our trail revenue, which was INR 577 crores, up from INR 388 crores last year. So if you notice, that's almost INR 190 crore growth. And this comes at an 85% margin and a significant source of profit. And I think as we look forward, that should become stronger and stronger. We continue to improve our and this is another number which was at a particular number, pretty high, but it was stuck there. We have now got a CSAT of 89%, which is actually the highest we have ever reported. Our credit business growth showed moderation. However, it continues to be Adjusted EBITDA positive since December 2022. We are now at an annual run rate of INR 14,000 crore on disbursals and about INR 600,000 crore on issuance on an annualized basis of credit cards. The credit score consumer base has now increased to 43 million. 75% of the cards were processed end-to-end digitally, and 75% of disbursals are from existing customers. We continue to strengthen our leadership in new initiatives while building further efficiencies. If you notice, this year, the new initiatives broke even at a contribution basis. So PB Partner, our agent aggregation platform, continues to lead the market in scale and efficiency of operations. Quarter-on-quarter, it grew 50%. So please don't get bogged down by the 15% year-on-year growth. Just the base was extraordinary. We have moved the business strongly towards smaller and higher-quality advisors. That's a big change that's happened from this year to the last year. And it has the highest proportion of non-motor business and is present in almost 18,000 PIN codes, which is almost 93% of all PIN codes in India. We continue to see improving efficiencies in this business and increasingly becoming more and more confident of this business breaking even sometime in the near future. Our UAE premium grew 2.3x, and that business also continues to do very well. So very happy to take questions now. Thank you. Thank you, Yashish. We'll take the first question from Srinath. Srinath, please unmute yourself. Hi, Yashish. Just wanted to understand that there's been an increase in porting and health policies at the system level. With that context, I want to understand how this impacts our persistency of our backbook and our NPV calculation. Given that our backbook is in health, extremely profitable, at least could you share some qualitative understanding on how persistency has played out this year versus, say, last year or the year before? That would be great. I have a second question on Paisabazaar. I'll come after you're done with this. So I will hand this question totally to Sarbvir. However, this is something, obviously, you would expect someone like me to be tracking also in addition to Sarbvir and very, very closely. So I just wanted to mention our persistency is the highest it has ever been. It is higher than the past. And the rest of it, I'll just pass on to Sarbvir. Yeah. No, I think two points. The system, actually, in our opinion, has been at roughly the same level as the previous year. So actually, the system is at an elevated level, but it has been the same for the last two years. Our persistency, as Yashish just mentioned, and we measured it both by number of policies as well as, of course, the premium amount, is at the highest that it's ever been. And we spend a lot of time and energy in ensuring that. And I also want to just share that our fresh business also, the percentage of porting is at least half of the overall market level. So we bring a lot of fresh new customers to health insurance, and we don't actually end up giving a lot of porting business to our partners. So just to so you don't think we are beating around the bush or anything, our portion of our fresh business is about 20%. So just being crystal clear on that, in that range, approximately 20% and not widely off that. And our persistency on renewals in both number of transactions and premium, it is the highest ever. It is a percentage or a percentage to 2% more than it has been in the past ever. And I'm talking about the whole year, and it's only continued to improve. Clear? Yeah. Got it. Just a clarification on this, this 20% that you have shared. Again, qualitatively, can you comment whether it has seen an increase over the last two years substantially or has it been somewhat constant in a range? That would be nice. Again, very qualitatively would be. Yeah. So post-COVID, it has seen some increase. I think it would have been in the 15 or mid-teens kind of range earlier. It has gone up a little bit over the last two years. But year-on-year, it's kind of roughly been in the same neighborhood. Okay. I think the key point to take away was what Sarbvir mentioned, that we are at about half the rate of where the system, as Sarbvir euphemistically called it, is. And I think the second part is we pride ourselves in bringing new customers to the system. Yeah. Got it. Perfect. One question on Paisabazaar. Wanted to understand, as it seems like the regulator is favoring secured products over unsecured products. Is there a way, with the kind of evolution of technology, maybe digital signatures and so on and so forth, that we could look at originating some part of the secured products, which go to granular retail? Is there any thought on something like this, given that we are a platform which probably has the highest organic traffic for loan searches coming in? Thank you. That's all from my side. Thanks, Srinath. You're right. It's also there in one of our slides, if you've seen the presentation, that currently, our secured disbursal percentage would be about 13%-15% on a quarterly basis. One of our key priorities for this year is to try and increase the secured growth and hence the secured contribution. There are multiple categories that we are exploring. Within that, we already have home loans and loan against property live. There is some digitization that's happened in those categories, but it's still limited to an income-based sanction kind of stage because the primary asset is still kind of non-digital. There are some interesting new categories that we're exploring, like loan against security. We know that what's happened to the number of consumers coming into the equity market over the last four years. That asset or that secured loan category is becoming interesting. We're exploring a couple of additional categories besides home loans and LAP. The overall priority is to increase the secured loan contribution. Thank you. So just to kind of clarify, we have seen tightening. And I wanted to take this opportunity since we have all of you. Thank you for being around. I had said I expected about a 10% reduction. While that has proven correct for the last quarter, I expect this to last at least one more quarter. And the expectation, I think, is going to be below that. So I think we would be good at maybe 0%-10% growth for Paisa. And I'm giving this guidance only because it is a very special situation right now for the next one quarter. But we don't expect it to last very long because, at a very fundamental level, it's not a quality-based slowdown. It is a process-based slowdown. And just to also explain one number, because Naveen mentioned that about 13% of our disbursals are secured. From a revenue perspective, it's approximately 4% of our revenues from the secured category. So secured does not really exist for us so far. But we were quite convinced we want to build up that category along with unsecured. We're not worried about unsecured, but we think secured is an opportunity. Thank you, Yashish. Thanks for the clarifications. Thank you, Srinath. We'll take the next question from Moksha. Moksha, please unmute yourself. Hello. Am I audible? Yeah, Moksha, we can hear you. Yes. Just a second. So I wanted to understand what does the online marketing and consulting services comprise of? And since it's a big proportion of the total revenues, how are these expected to remain in the future? Hello. Yeah, yeah. No, no. We are trying to understand where to look for this because, as you can appreciate, I spend a lot of my time on MIS. I actually don't spend a huge amount of my time on the financial reports. But look, broadly, these are what they say, marketing and consulting services, which is our marketing expenses. And the marketing comes in multiple formats. It can even be marketing to influencers, etc. So it would be in that range. Over time, h uh, but Mandeep, if you want to answer because Mandeep spends a lot more time looking at financials than I do. So Moksha, you're referring to online marketing and consulting revenue in Paisabazaar? Policyb azaar. Yeah. So you're looking at the consolidated result, right? Yes. Yeah. So just basically, the marketing revenue that we generate on our Paisabazaar portal, so where we run the advertisement for our clients. Okay. As I recall, it was around 54% of the total revenues. Yeah, Moksha, I wouldn't bother too much about it, per se. These are just classification matters. So if you look at the overall meat of the MIS, you wouldn't see any dramatic shift in the overall numbers. There could be some classification matters. I'm sure if something has increased or decreased, another category would have equally compensated for it. So that's where I would leave it. Okay. My- Just look at the total. Look at the total expenses and the total revenues. If you don't see a very significant shift, then don't worry about classification. Classifications keep changing from time to time. It's just how you classify a particular revenue or how you classify a particular cost, right? So I wouldn't worry about it. I think as you look into the future, you should see this settling down. These should become less and less of an issue as we go into the future. Thank you, Moksha. We'll take the next question from Jayant. Jayant, please unmute yourself. Thank you, Rasleen. Congratulations, the whole team, for a strong set of numbers. Two questions from my end. One is on the renewals. Clearly, what you've been saying, Yashish, seems to have played out this quarter. I can see the take rate on our renewal commissions in the core business has sort of moved up from that 6.2%, 6.3% to almost like 7% this quarter. So I'm guessing the non-life mix is improving over there. Is this sustainable or moves up from here? That is number one. And second is on the other OpEx, the QoQ increase, if you could just help me understand. These two from my end. And again, congratulations. Sarbvir. Yeah, yeah. So I'll start with the second question. The second question, if you notice, is just a flip between two lines, right? That one, others have gone up and advertising and promotional expenses have gone down. This is just a reclassification of how our PB Partners' business works. See, the same question that Moksha asked, in a way, this reclassification matter is certain expenses and certain revenues will be classified one way. They would be getting classified a different way. And I think as you look quarter-on-quarter, these will start to settle down. So don't worry too much about it. I think the first question was on the renewal revenue. Of course, as you will imagine, as the book will build, this will continue to grow. I also want to just call out that ever since we became a broker, we do get some renewal revenue on the life side as well. So that is also slowly starting to add up. So it's a combination of both the things, and both things will keep going. So it should be very, very sustainable. So the 7% stays for the next or moves up from here? I mean, how should one think about that? Yeah. Why we don't think that way? We actually hope it reduces because we hope that our new business grows so much that. This is not limited. This is just the renewal. Oh, renewal take rate. Oh, yeah. That will inch. See, both are happening, right? The life is also increasing, and our life renewal is also increasing. Our health is so we don't. But yeah, assume they stay in the same range here. Assume this. I thought you were talking about relative. Yeah. So we don't look at these things in an overall control basis. We look at each vertical, each case. The mix may change a little bit, but it's very tough to estimate that, okay, this 7% will become 6.9% or 7.1% because in a particular quarter, things may change a little bit in a particular vertical. If you look at each vertical, the new take rate and the renewal take rate, that has not moved at all unless we have changed the product itself. Yes. Right? That's right. In the opening comment, when Yashish mentioned about lending products, their product itself has changed a little bit. That's where the take rate has come down for that particular product or the new business. At a fundamental level, what you need to appreciate is a large proportion, much more than the majority of the proportion of the renewal revenue belongs to health. In the last year, our fastest growing business is health. In the previous year to that, health had not grown so much, right? Obviously, as you look into the future, the renewal revenue should show a pretty smart uptake because of what we have done in the past year. But that's a pretty obvious one. I think what we look at, as Alok mentioned, is we don't look at it at an aggregate level. We look at it year-on-year. We are quite sophisticated about how we look at renewals and everything and whether every year we look at it in a manner and that has all been inching upwards. So we are very confident of the renewal performance. That answers my question. Thank you. Congrats once again to all. Thank you, Jayant. Thanks, Jayant. We'll take the next question from Sanketh. Sanketh, please unmute yourself. Sorry, you can hear me, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. See, I have a few data-keeping questions and a few related to strategy. One, obviously, if you can give the breakup or you can spell out the exact premium number of PB Partners and PB Corporate. And also, if you can give us what was exactly the branding cost, which we have done in the current year and in the fourth quarter. That's the one on data. And second, to add on the data, if you can confirm, the core new business premium number in the fourth quarter is INR 1,770 crores, right? That's the first question. Maybe I will ask the second one later. Sorry, we didn't understand the INR 1,770 crore. Can you confirm? I mean, INR 1,770 crores is the new business premium for the current quarter, right? Yes. For core business, yes. It's a little higher than that, but yes, it's approximately that. Yeah, INR 1,777 crores. Okay, perfect. And if you give me PB Partners and corporate premium, PB Corporate premium, that would be useful. And then branding cost. POSP is INR 1,200, both. So corporate is about INR 200. Okay. This is INR 1,200 for the okay, fine. Perfect. INR 1,200 is for the quarter, yeah, quarter. We asked for the quarter, right? Q4. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. POSP is INR 1,200. Our corporate is about INR 200. Okay, perfect. I just wanted to understand your branding cost. How is that? Last year, I think we spent around INR 240-odd crores. How is that number moving in the current year, and how do you expect it to play out? Sarbvir, you want to answer that? Yeah. Sanketh, I think overall, our branding costs have been going up below our revenue growth. So if you see around half, I would say, the growth rate. And I think next year also, we would look to, I mean, I think the fundamental point is that the model works on driving new premium growth. So we focus a lot on driving fresh growth. And to deliver that, as long as the economics look reasonable, we will continue to do that. So there will be some spend, again, below revenue growth, but we will grow brand spending in this financial year as well. Okay. Will you be okay to spell out the exact number? It's given rupees crores, just from a modeling point of view. It's very tough to give absolute numbers. I think. We don't operate that way, guys. Honestly, we don't operate that way. We see it as a good opportunity. We think if we have a great creative that is working, we will spend a little more. If we don't have a phenomenal creative see, all these decisions for us are very. Tactical and ROI. Our very ROI and tactical decisions. They are not something that we kind of, yes, we have broad ideas. And broadly, it shouldn't go totally out of whack. But see, at a fundamental level, you need to understand our philosophy. Our philosophy is growth is a priority, massive priority. Profit is actually not a priority. Profit is like counting the engine has gone through, and now you're counting the bogies going through of the train. And primarily, that is because the bogies are essentially the renewal year. See, the profit mostly comes from renewals. The fresh business does not give you profits, at least on the GI side. And within that, we focus on health and life growth because we think we are solving a very serious problem for the consumers, right? And out there, being at 53% thrills me. Now, if that means a slightly higher branding cost, it honestly doesn't. I feel good about it. That's all, right? So we don't kind of say, "Okay, last year, the branding cost was this much. So how much should it be this year?" We don't really work that way. But Sarbvir, the brand cost increases roughly half of the premium increase. And as a percentage of it, it keeps on coming down. Yeah, as a percentage of revenue, of course, it keeps coming down. Yeah, got it. And the next question was largely on this thing. Sarbvir, you have stopped speaking on it, but just wanted to understand how you are looking at it. The offline channel within the core business, I believe it used to contribute around 20% of the total premium what you collected till first half. If you can give a bit of color, how brands addition, people addition, or how this offline has played a role in driving your health growth, just if you give a bit of color or understanding of that piece, it will be very useful. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I think the number, as you correctly said, used to be around 20%. It's inching upwards every quarter, every month. The rest of the business is also growing quite rapidly. So it's hard for the proportion to change dramatically. But yes, it is. We are deploying a lot more people in the field. And we are very encouraged by the response to the model. So I think in both the life side and the health side, we are adding people, and we are adding centers also. And it's growing quite rapidly here. At this stage, the number is in the same ballpark of about 20%, maybe 22%, but it's not dramatically different. You continue to. The growth in health is quite honestly, it's now been a year, and it's just getting faster and faster. It is not explained by any particular action that we have taken. It just seems to be, at a very fundamental level, some kind of a consumer preference for dealing with us. Maybe it's not like one particular action or two particular actions are explaining that growth. Yeah, that's all I would say. Okay. No, see, actually, that was my subsequent question. Assume the porting would have been a little lower in the current year, relatively, at the system level, because it increased. You benefited because this year was a very unique year because every insurance company took a price hike. And naturally, there were customer grievances, and people started looking for porting a lot. And that benefited the entire sector with respect to porting. And you naturally participated in that. So I just want to, I mean, so I know. No, I think that's a wrong conclusion. Porting for us, we already explained is 20%. I don't know the exact number, but it might have been 17% last year. And 3% is boss, please hear what I said. 53% is the health and life growth. And health significantly outperformed that. It can't be explained by 3% is all I'm trying to say. When I say significantly, it is multiple 10% higher. So please don't force me to give the exact number. It is a crazy number of growth, right? So it can't be explained by 3% here and 2% here, yeah. Got it. Can you tell your market share today in the new business of health? Yeah, that is for you to calculate, yeah. How would we know? No, we don't know the exact premium number. That's the reason we can't calculate the market share. It's quite good, yeah. It's increasing fast. I will just leave it at that. Okay. Yeah, we have a few other questions coming. Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, Sanketh, if I would try to answer the import of your question, right, which is, why is our health business growing faster than the market at this point? I think the answer lies not in one silver bullet answer. The answer lies in a series of actions that have been taken over a series of years, right, which have come together. One is, I would say, our focus on bringing fresh customers to the category. I think everything starts from the fact that we bring customers to the category. Number two, we have worked diligently with our insurer partners to produce products which are relevant and customized to what customers are looking for. That improves the conversion rate that we have. The feet on street plays into that same angle that people are able to meet customers and close sales at their homes or in their offices. Third thing is the improvement in customer experience that we have, the fact that we are assigning a relationship manager to every health policy. Please just stop for a second and think about it. Every customer is getting a relationship manager. Number four, at the moment of truth, in claims, we are helping people solve their problems where they are getting stuck. So I would say it's an overall series of actions. I think these actions are coming together. They will continue to strengthen. Now, growth rates by quarter will change up and down. Portability by quarter will change up and down. But I don't think that is the fundamental driver of why our business is growing faster. So I think these four things are the reason why it's happening. On porting, Sanketh, please note two, three very specific points. We don't encourage porting at all. It's customers who will ask for it. If our customers port within our ecosystem, we will keep on getting the benefit. But yes, if a customer comes from outside the system and wants to port through us, we get some benefit. But as he said, the number has not significantly changed. So overall, we do not encourage porting at all. We don't encourage porting. Customers have bought through Policybazaar with their eyes open, understanding the product. Unless there is a media issue, customers should not even think of porting. But yet, sometimes they do. And yeah, when they do, we will help them if they ask for it. Got it, Alok. Thanks. Thanks, Sarbvir, for that answer. Thank you, Sanketh. Thank you, Sanketh. We'll request the next question from Dipanjan. Dipanjan, please unmute yourself. Hi, good morning, everyone. So a few questions from my side. First, going back to one of the previous questions in terms of the offline business and the traction we are seeing in that channel. And you also mentioned on deployment of workforce. So can you give some color on the quality of business in terms of the mix that you're seeing in that particular channel? Or how do you see the profitability of that channel from more of a sustainable long-term basis compared to, let's say, your digital business in terms of the margins that both these segments can command on, let's say, a like-to-like product basis overall? Yeah, first of all, I think there is a bit of confusion here because I've heard this word offline business, online business a few times. It is a closure mechanism. The customer is still coming on the website. The customer can be serviced either through a contact center or through a physical meeting. The cost of both these channels is pretty much the same on a per-person basis. You pay a salary, and you pay telecom costs, and you pay a seat cost in another one. You pay a salary, and you pay some travel expenses and maybe, obviously, lower telecom costs and lower office costs. We do not really have a branch network. These are meetings at people's homes or people's, it's only to people who have come through the online channel. So it's just a closure mechanism. You could be doing calls, video calls. The mathematics of all of these businesses is exactly the same. In fact, if you asked us to really get into it, the most profitable one of it actually might be the physical channel. It might be slightly more profitable than running a call center because the conversion rates are slightly higher. The products are pretty much the same. So the mix is pretty much the same. So if you look at health and life, they are, but I'll let Sarbvir Singh explain that part. If there's anything specific there, I don't know if there's anything to explain. Basically, the most important part, Dipanjan, the customer still comes online. This is just a way to service the customer. It's almost like you and I are talking on Zoom right now versus having a physical meeting. The quality of interaction improves a little bit. It's an appointment model. See, a customer can choose to have a call, a video call, or a physical appointment. We will only go there if there is an appointment. We are not walking on streets, knocking on people's doors and saying, "Would you like to buy insurance?" That is not our model. And sorry, I think a lot has been said. I just want to add one final point that we verify all bookings. That verification process is run by an independent team. That team verifies all offline bookings and all online bookings. Now, I'm not sure whether if your question was about this or about PB Partners, but we were talking about the retail direct business so far. Yeah. It was about the same point. So maybe I used the word offline. But what I wanted to understand is, basically, for this digitally sort of lead-originated but converted physically sort of a business, will the product mix be a little different from your, let's say, core digital business? So again, I'll explain that. In health and term, the product mix is very similar to what it is online because a person can only buy a certain product. You can only cover your family or yourself in either case. In the case of savings, yes, the ticket size does go up, in fact, quite significantly when a person meets physically versus doing online. But again, I repeat that the quality of business. I repeat that the quality of business as measured by persistency and measured by renewal rates is very much in the same ballpark as the online business. In fact, sometimes a little higher also. So, it's not. There's no quality issue at all. Sorry, just one last question. On the POSP side of the business, I mean, you used to operate at 80/20 motor/non-motor ratio. Is there any meaningful change in that number over the past, let's say, 6-12 months? How do you see this business from a run rate or a growth run rate perspective from here onwards? You're right. It normally runs at 80/20. In Q4 of last year, because of the changes in some tax regulations, etc., life business in Q4 was actually very high. So that's why it was not 80/20 last year. But now we are running in the same neighborhood of 80/20. Sorry, lastly, in terms of the growth trajectory, I understand it might be output of the productivity of the POSP partners and also the underlying asset class. But in terms of how do you foresee the overall growth trajectory in this segment? We think that the growth will continue. We grow above the market. I think if the market is growing around 15%-16%, especially in motor, we are growing 2.5x that number. I think that growth rate should continue going forward as well. Of course, having said that, now at INR 3,000 crores of scale, we are now a fairly large operation. So we are going to be affected by market forces and how the market behaves as well. And I think, again, I want to clarify that in POSP right now, the absolute amount of business that we are doing is not a core focus beyond a point. I think the quality of the business, the origin of the business, working with smaller agents, going deeper into the country, going into tier three, four, five cities, I think those are more relevant things for us, especially as we look forward. Just gathering premium beyond a point is not really our focus anymore. Got it. And if I can squeeze in one small question on the reinsurance broking side, I mean, I would assume that sometime during the year, you would kind of give some qualitative commentary on the progress of that particular strategy. But if you can kind of give some color on how do you see the acceptability from both stakeholders, be it the manufacturers or the reinsurers, and which business segment, apart from protection, do you think it can really benefit either from a market share perspective or from a pricing perspective? I think it's a bit early to give too much color. We just got our license a few months ago. We are working on it. As you correctly said, protection is one category that we definitely see it impacting. And we'll see how that goes as the year progresses. I think the good news also is that I think the industry also sees us as a channel, which is a specialized channel, especially for protection. So I think a lot of things that we would like to do for customers are available from the industry directly as well. But I'm sure with reinsurance, we will be able to make better propositions as time goes by. Got it. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. Thanks, Dipanjan. We'll take the next question from Shreya. Shreya, please unmute yourself. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a great quarter. First, just a data-keeping question. Did you share Dubai premiums as well for the quarter? It's about INR 210 crores. INR 210 crore. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's becoming a significant operation. That's becoming a decent-sized operation. It was INR 100 crore last year, INR 110 crore last year. Correct. Correct. Correct. That's also a good growth. Did you share the credit revenue? Sorry, I was a little late for the call. Credit revenue is INR 146 crores. Got it. So my main question is great, great delivery on the life and particularly on the health insurance side. Just going ahead, what comes to my mind is now that as the life insurers and general insurers have to achieve an expense management cap and that date is coming closer, does it concern you that they may try to push more into those channels which are considered lower-cost channels going ahead? And I also want to understand the business dynamics that if your website is naturally generating far greater volume in terms of customers, in terms of people naturally coming to your website and raising queries more over there, how much flexibility will insurers who also have EOM cap restriction in, say, moving away from PB Fintech while they try to balance their growth and their expenses? So just trying to understand your thought process around this thing. Oh, thank you, Shreya. See, look at the big picture here. We are at a take rate of about 17%-16%, maybe 16%. I don't know of any EOM cap below 30%. And in health, it's actually higher at maybe 35%. The reason the reason someone like me is not hassled about it, you saw when the renewal question was asked, I was very precise in my answers. The reason someone like me is the ceiling is so far high compared to where we are that we really need to be the last person bothered about. So we are at about half of where the ceiling is being placed or whatever you want to call it, right? And we are a full-cost mechanism. An insurance company does not really need a branch network, a regional network to do everything we do. In fact, we lean in at the point of claims. Also, we lean in at the point of service. We lean in at the point of customer service, issuance, payments. There's a huge amount we take on. So if you really thought about it, at some level, an insurance company has to give us a product. And we can do a lot of the variable cost expense for them. And so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The second thing I would like to point out, which is our POSP business itself, because one thing is just looking inwards. One is looking at market data. Our POSP business has a far higher take rate than our core business, which again points out because our POSP business should be comparable to the other businesses that exist, right? So that again points out to where the issue is. It's actually not in the online business. If you again notice, our POSP business is 80% motor, whereas our core business is 80% health and life. You would appreciate motor actually has lower take rates than health and life. So all of this is pointing towards a very simple thing that Policybazaar, on the whole, is actually a lower take rate channel. You have to look at the total expense. I think it's a brilliant thing for us, the expense of management admin, because that allows somebody to look at total expense. When you run other channels, you need a lot more costs. See, I don't want to. We are not here to say anything negative about any other channel. But the basic thing is, when you run another channel, there's a lot more hand-holding required and a lot more costs that still need to happen, whether it's a branch infrastructure, whether it's a sales infrastructure, whether it's a service infrastructure. In our case, Sarbvir mentioned even the relationship manager is us. So I don't think I gave a pretty elaborate answer. I don't think that's a worry point or a concern point for us at all. Yeah. I'll just add one point here. See, if you look at industry, the biggest cost is actually claims. So there are three costs: claims, distribution, and servicing. Honestly, if someone were to analyze these three together for any particular channel, online-acquired customer will come out to be the most efficient channel, everything put together in itself also, because the nature of the product is different. The distribution costs are lower. But the claim numbers are very, very different. So this is a channel which is here to stay and to grow. More and more customers who are young want to be in control of where their money is going and what product they are buying. So yeah, from that perspective, we are very, very short. Yeah, no, I appreciate the part on the claims that you are mentioning. Definitely, the quality of customers, which comes via an online channel versus any other channel, there could be a big delta over there. Just following up on this question. So if we do a reverse, as in I understand your take rates are at a certain level. But if I go and pull out the data of the broker channel for different insurers and divide that by broker commission, by broker premium, it does look higher. I know you are not the only broker. But at least on the health side, it does look higher than 16-17. And that's why my concern that maybe if the broker channel is really higher than 16-17, then the EOM cap may affect you. Is my understanding correct, or how should I? Shreya, I just want to, I think you gave a very elaborate answer. I just want to explain one thing to you that actually, the expense of management rules in favor of channels like Policybazaar versus the earlier system of cap on commission. See, expense of management is commission plus total cost plus all other costs. So commission plus all other costs for Policybazaar are lower than, or let's say, comparable to than other channels. And I think that is the crux of the point. Now, you can sort channels not necessarily by commission paid only, but by the total cost of operation. And I think the total cost of operation, even excluding claims for a second, is lower for Policybazaar than others. So if you were to make a graph of suppliers by cost, we would be a lowest-cost supplier. And hence, if you were to start chopping off people from the top, we would be the last in that list. Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. I got your point. Yeah. That was my question. Thank you so much. Thanks, Shreya. We'll take the next question from Sachin. Sachin, please unmute yourself. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Congrats for a great set of numbers. I have three questions. First, Yashish, clearly, you mentioned growth is a priority as compared to margins. I just wanted to understand how could one think about steady-state margins for core insurance and how far are we in terms of getting out there? We genuinely don't think that way, ya. I know it's a desire for a lot of people to have that answer. We don't think that way. We would try to do the best possible products for the consumers. And whatever is the market clearing price for those products from a take rate perspective is what we will receive. It is not like we want to have a higher take rate than what is the market clearing price, or we want to have a lower take rate. The take rate is a function of the products we sell, right, and of where the clearing price is. And we are comfortable now, I don't want people to take the wrong message out of this. But our preference is for lower and lower commission products, which are better and better for the consumer. But it is not like Policybazaar as a channel would be markedly different from the market clearing price on the total expense basis, not just, see, commission is just one expense. But cost has to be looked at overall. And I just had one last comment from the last answer because somewhere, Sarbvir mentioned that if some channels were to be removed, then it would not be us. It would be some others who are at a higher cost on a total cost basis. But please appreciate when a channel gets removed, the amortization of fixed costs does not happen if whichever gets removed. And actually, that increases the cost for everybody else on the whatever. So expense of management takes care of everything. And it is actually an amortization of fixed costs over growth and volume. So actually, growth and volume become very high priorities in an EOM environment. And essentially, as long as you are below the 30%-35%, you're in a great shape. But being lower than everybody else sort of further helps. I know I've kind of diverted a little bit from your question, but I hope I answered yours and the previous one both. And if I could just add one thing that see, we have to also remember the context. The context of India is low penetration of health and term insurance, growing middle class, growing spread across the country. So I think this is not the stage at which one should try to maximize percentage margins. I think one should try to serve more and more customers. These customers will become more and more valuable over a period of time. And at some point into the future, there will be some time in 15, 20 years from now when you should start thinking about optimizing that mix. But right now, I think the thing is to have more customers. And these customers will become more and more valuable over time. Thank you. Very clear. My second question is more on tech. And since your last analyst day, which roughly happened about a year back, there have been good, meaningful strides and improvement in generative AI. So any big picture thoughts in terms of how you guys are looking to utilize it? And I'm asking it because you guys have a good call center support system. Are we trying to automate or trying to move and leverage generative AI in that perspective? Yeah, absolutely. I think we not just generative AI. I would say that I think there are a series of technologies that have come up over the last five, 10 years, broadly AI, machine learning, etc. We are using them in a variety of areas. I think as we showed some applications last time also, one is around the whole area of risk. Second is the area of call center productivity to see how we can make our advisors more productive, how we can have more productive conversations with customers. Then there's the area of customer service. Again, the same thing. How can we offer more self-service options? How can we understand natural language of customers and again, make our agents more productive? And then finally, there's an overall opportunity to use generative AI in a sort of breakthrough kind of manner where I think right now, it's more experimentation, I would say, rather than results, where we are trying to see what we can do to change the total nature of how a customer reacts or interacts with a digital asset. So I think those are three, four areas which we are working on. Each of these areas has dedicated people working on them. And I think over a period of time, we'll continue to give examples as we go along. Put it very clear. And my last question is more a bookkeeping question. I noticed you guys paid some income tax this quarter. I would assume there are certain tax credit carry-forward losses. Just wanted to get more clarity on that. Yeah, we have about INR 2,100 crore of carried-forward losses. So of course, as the future years play by, we should get the benefit of those. But please do appreciate there are multiple companies. Profit may lie in one company, loss may lie in another company. But Mandeep is the right person to answer in more detail. See, I mean, if you look at the tax laws, if you are generating income from your investments, that is where the set-off of carry-forward losses are not available. And this is the portion where we are paying tax to right now. All right. Especially the treasury income. That's what you're saying, right? Yeah. So only the losses of the last year and the previous year can be included in that. So all I'm saying is we do have that INR 2,100 crores, but its playout will happen over time. All right. Thanks all and all the best. Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Nischint. Nischint, please unmute yourself. Yeah, sorry. Am I audible now? Yeah. Hi. Yes, Nischint. Hi, Nischint. Yeah. Hi. Just on the take rates, now, if I look at it, your year-over-year take rate has gone down. And I think you made a small comment on that. If you could just elaborate a little bit in terms of which segment have you really seen kind of a change? There is only one segment. The take rate has not changed in any segment. So whether it's health, whether it's term, whether it's motor, whether it's POSP, or even Paisabazaar, take rates have not changed at all. The only segment where take rate has changed is in the savings segment. And yeah, that's it. That's because you moved from guaranteed return products to ULIPs? We moved in some portion from capital guarantee products towards pure ULIP. I think that is an industry trend that you must have observed across all the calls. I think that's something that we are also, frankly, very happy about because we believe that low-cost ULIPs are the right product for customers. In the long run, it's a happier customer. That customer comes back and buys more. One of the life insurance companies has launched a high-yield product on the inside. We are delighted partners. Okay. I think that answers it. Sure. Just one small thing is if you could break up the revenue premium of INR 2,000-odd crores between digital and others because I believe POSP is also getting meaningful now. Sorry. If I look at the renewal premium, if you could just divide it between POSP and others, or POSP and digital because. Yeah, I think the core business is about INR 1,750. Okay. And then the rest would. And then that does the job. But POSP is about INR 105. Sorry. No, maybe I've got something wrong. So let Sarbvir answer it. No, no. I think we'll just stay with INR 1,750, is the core renewal from the core premium. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Sorry. Sure, that's it. Sorry, just one last one on take rate in the POSP business. I think as we had a discussion, your POSP take rate is kind of on the higher side versus the company average, although the commissions you mentioned on the motor side would be lower than the other businesses. How do we reconcile this? No, no. There are two reasons. One, I think what Yashish was trying to indicate was that there are channels. POSP represents closer to the rest of the industry. So there are channels which have higher commission. POSP also has higher commission in motor because we sell commercial vehicles. So commercial vehicles don't actually come through the online route because of various reasons. So because it's more commercial vehicle-heavy, that's why also the commission rates are higher in POSP. Yeah, no, broadly, at a fundamental level, see, on Policybazaar, because it's a competitive platform and competitive on product and issuance rates, etc., etc., you cannot necessarily increase your volume by paying more commission, right? Whereas the POSP channel essentially competes on commission, yeah. If you really think about it at a fundamental level, it essentially competes on commission. And I think we should. Sarbvir asked me to stop here on this story. Fair. But just I think going back to the EOM point, does this kind of not for you further, but for the entire POSP industry, does this kind of come under some pressure because of EOM guidelines? I guess we don't care to let it play out, yeah. I think a lot of things will play out. Sure. Thank you very much and all the best. Thank you. Thank you, Nischint. We'll take the next question from Yash Mehta. Yash, please unmute yourself. Hi. Good morning. On the. Yeah, clear. Repeat the renewal premium, which was INR 4,400 crore last year. What does it correspond to in the current year? INR 5,845 crores. Okay. And if I were to kind of look at the renewal rate, it seems like there is a sharp drop from about 70-odd% to 50-odd%. Am I missing something? It is exactly 69%. It was 70% last year. It's 69% right now. So it's been the same. If I look at the last four, five quarters, it's all 68%-70%. In fact, the last quarter is 70%. Understood. Fair. No, thanks for clarifying that. And one more question. In terms of, let's say, the employee count that we have for the full year versus what it was the last year. And within that, if you could break up between salesforce and non-salesforce. Can we respond to that offline because that'll be a fairly detailed thing? We won't have the answer right now, but we will respond to it separately. Is that okay? All right. I'll reach out to Rasleen. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Yash. We'll take the next question from Yash Gandhi. Yash, please unmute yourself. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible? Absolutely, Yash. Thank you. Yashish, you mentioned that INR 64 crore PAT was a bit short of your expectation. What PAT number you would have thought you would have closed this year? Yeah, we don't give expectation, but I was expecting INR 80. We came in at INR 64. I know. So yes, I thought we should have been there, but it's okay. It's not a big deal, right? I'm just saying it is what it is. The number is what it is. Got it. Got it. In that, there's been whatever, INR 13 crore of the taxation and maybe some quarter movements here and there. Sometimes you have to take some costs and some revenue. Accounting is accounting, yeah, at the end of it. So it is what it is. See, we are very strong on cash flow. If you really think about it, we added INR 260 crore on cash, but we had some classification differences. I'm just getting into a little bit of detail, but I just wanted to share with you how I think about it, right? There were some classification changes in terms of our expenses and etc. Now, what that does is certain basically, the GST kind of tax if you have, those increase. Those go from 2%-10%. Now, those are just working capital. Something's going earlier. Something's going later. So we have about INR 150 crores of cash, which kind of went into that. And all that is, is the cash will come in later. So some of those things affect our cash flows. But if I was to remove that, our positive cash flow for the year is very close to INR 400 crores, which is a very positive result. And I guess anyway, I'll kind of stop there because maybe I'm just giving more detail than we are comfortable with at this stage. Sure, sure. Got it. Got it. Thank you, Yashish, for that. And Yashish, just last question here. So FY 2025, you think we can grow about 40% and about 50% contribution from core business? Is this a right estimate that we can build in for next year? We don't give estimates here. You are free to kind of draw your own conclusion. I hope we keep growing. I'll be amazed if we keep growing the way we are. I'll be delighted if that happens, yeah. Sure, sure. Just last question, Yashish. This is not for guidance or anything like that. The website views, I mean, are they higher basically in April versus March on Policybazaar, or something has changed? Like the number of website views that if you track this data. So normally, there is a little bit of drop in traffic from March to April. I mean, we don't drop as much as the industry does, but we do have some drop. But this year, actually, April is similar. I would say seasonality is very similar to every other year. Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Yash. We'll take two more questions now. One from Kirit. Kirit, please unmute yourself. Hi, Kirit. Please unmute yourself. Okay. We'll take the question from Ankush. Ankush, please unmute yourself. Yeah. Hi. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. So Yashish, the question is primarily on Bima Sugam. I think the launch of the platform is closest than ever it has been. And you guys being the industry insiders, you would have some insights on how the platform is shaping up, specificaly on the point that is being talked about the most, that it would offer policies on preferably lower prices due to charging lower commissions. So wanted your thoughts on how I mean, even though the platform is yet to launch, but in case this kind of offering does come in wherein it is offering lower prices, how do you think, based on your understanding, it would impact consumer preference towards a platform like Policybazaar, which would be on a higher pricing versus, say, Bima Sugam, right? I think it's a fantastic thing that would happen. It would expand the market dramatically. I think with it coming in, the market might be 20x of where it is. And if it is 20x, I'm sure we'll also have some share out there. So I think competition I don't see it as competition. I see it as an enabler. And I see it as a massive enabler from the back end in terms of digital processes, in terms of digital outlook. So yeah, we are very, very positive about it and awaiting its early launch. No, but I mean, as a consumer who's comfortable with buying online, why would then he prefer buying through your platform versus Bima Sugam if it's getting better pricing in Bima Sugam, right? I mean, that's a fundamental question that would impact your business. Yeah, maybe we will also have lower prices, and that will really, really expand the market. So if you really think about it, with UPI, PhonePe, and Google Pay have also done very well. So the back-end rails, as they streamline, it really, really benefits the digital players. So I don't want to get too much into speculative mode here, but everything in history tells us when the back-end rails really get sorted, the world moves on. And maybe if we get 20x the volume, we'll be okay with 5% of our take rates. Why not? And maybe we'll be okay with less. And maybe we'll make money from some other industry and not make money on insurance. So I would say don't get too worked up about it yet. Yeah. Just a data-keeping question. What was the ESOP cost for the quarter? For the quarter? INR 63 crore. Okay. Got it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let's take one last question because we could not take one. Hi, Kirit. Please unmute yourself. Yeah, hi. Sorry. Can you hear me? This is Karan speaking. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. Hi. So this is Karan Danthi. He's my colleague's name. Congrats on the great results. So if you read some of the industry rags around what is, I guess, the current topic du jour in healthcare insurance, I think there's two or three high-level kind of issues. And I just want to understand how you're contributing to solving them. The first would be inflation. There's clearly a lot of inflation and premiums, I think, consistently double-digit increases. So how do we make sure we don't run into kind of an affordability issue? Are we increasing the mix of sort of low-cost plans? How do we sort of what are we doing on our side from an innovation standpoint to sort of combat this? I think the second thing is, which maybe plays into what you've done already, but I'd be curious what incremental innovation is coming in that a lot of these claims require high waiting times despite pre-approvals. So people sitting in hospitals for hours just waiting to get approved and have things go through. So high amount of inconvenience and decreasing affordability, I guess, were the two biggest issues. So maybe if you could just help us add some color. Oh, thank you. I think a great question. I'm so glad I asked Rasleen to take this question. Sarbvir, please. Yeah, absolutely. I think you identified two very important issues. Affordability is an issue, especially as prices have gone up over the last two years. So if you see, affordability is a segment that we are focused on this year. We have introduced products. One of the ways to handle affordability is to focus on where the customer lives and what is the area and what product is suited for them. So we are working on many answers. One is a preferred provider network. We are focused on deductibles that are offering small deductibles. We are offering monthly and quarterly modes of payment on our platform right now. So I think we are doing a series of things starting from the product payment as well as certain other deductible copay kind of arrangement to make the product more affordable. So I think that's one area that we are very much focused against. The second thing that you asked about waiting time for claims, yes, it is an issue from time to time. And there again, we are working with our insurance partners to try and see that at least for Policybazaar customers, are there ways that we can provide a green channel kind of concept where the documentation, a lot of the stuff that is required is pre-sort of populated so that at the end, only the last doctor discharge summary, etc. C an be added, and that person can be sent home. So again, this is an area where we are working. During the year, I don't want to talk about it, but we are looking at some innovation around this area as well to offer customers a better experience rather than having to wait. Both, I think, are areas that are very top of mind for us. See, at a fundamental level, on claims ratios, we are at the 45% range on a 16-year-old book, right, which is way, way below where the industry is. That implies, to some extent, the benefit of that in one way or the other can be passed on to consumers, whether it is in terms of more convenient claims handling and whether it is in terms of smarter products. At a very fundamental level, my belief system is that insurance is for the really big events and not for the everyday expenses. So deductibles is a great way to reduce cost and make the product more efficient. At a very, very fundamental level, in a product like insurance, disclosure is the critical part. If you can't get very good disclosure, then everything else fails. Then your ability to control claims, ability to control inflation becomes impossible. I think we're doing a phenomenal job on disclosure compared to most of the other channels. So feel quite confident about that. I think we will do more in this area as we go forward. I would say wait ahead. I'm quite excited about what all we can do in this area to make this a more robust proposition in the healthcare side. One last question, I think. Sachin is. Yes, Sachin, please unmute yourself. Hi, Rasleen. Thanks for this. And Yashish and team, great set of results. My first question is on basically PAT increase, right? You have highlighted that PAT rose by almost INR 550 odd crore in this fiscal year. Do you see this rate going up or going down going forward? I'm asking this because almost INR 330-340 crore of impact I see is coming from ESOP expense and other income. And that's the light in which I was trying to check because the ESOP expense impact will decline over time, I guess. So Sachin, you are too smart to ask this question here. You guys have your calculations. You guys know everything sometimes better than us. The calculation of profit is a pretty straightforward calculation that we have discussed many times. And you are absolutely right. The profit calculation in the medium term actually does not get impacted by new business growth at all or in a significant manner. Sorry, saying at all was actually incorrect. But in the medium term, within one to two years, profit does not really depend on what happens in new business. And I think that's the key, right, which is why for the last couple of years, if you hear my commentary, I've said, "Let's not focus on profit. That's an outcome. Let's focus on new business growth because that's the engine that will drive future profit. And that's what I'm assuming all of us are valuing the company on future profits, right? So I think the focus stays on and that's not to say we don't care about profits. It's just that that's an outcome. We can't really do anything about it, right? So I think you are spot on. I'm very optimistic about the profit outlook, but that is just going to show up as we grow. And I think this year's profitability will show up in future years in terms of that. So yes, I feel good about that. Understood. Second question, and this was my personal experience. I was buying health insurance on Policybazaar, and the agent was able to sort of immediately send me a link which where I could join, where he could talk about what he was talking about. I displayed it on screen as well, which was a very new and sort of good experience for a customer. So thinking from those lines, I believe there must be some more initiatives like that going on. Will you want to highlight them? Or secondly, is there the incremental cost that comes because of this is also resulting in better conversion rates? And basically, it's making sense. So yeah, we are looking at a very segmented and specific approach. I think Sarbvir and the team are doing some very elaborate work on how we should utilize process and technology changes to make things better. I think it's Sarbvir's question to answer. No, I think first of all, I'm glad that you had a very positive experience. I think we are trying to, as we've, I think, explained, we have a segmentation strategy. So health insurance is not health insurance. We have broken it into various buckets. In each bucket also, then we focus on making sure that the advisor tries to offer a screen-sharing option. We call it screen-sharing rather than video call because the customers prefer that rather than having cameras on on both sides. And we show the customer the whole journey as what is the product, what is the comparison, what is good about it, what are some of the issues so that whole thing very transparently can be discussed. So if you think about it, this is an alternative to a physical meeting. So physical meeting is, of course, very good, but this is equally good because you can go through the whole process. So we are continuously thinking of ways to make the process smoother as well as answer the questions that the customer may have. Some of them are actually they directly ask, and some are implied. They may not ask it, but they may be worried about it. So then we share that information to them on WhatsApp or on email and say that, "Look, this is some of the issues that you could have, whether it's around waiting periods, around maternity, around what is allowed in the policy, what is not allowed." So I think it's a series of things that we are doing to address customer needs, some implied, some direct. And it's a continuous process that we are going down. Thank you so much. A bunch of cost-benefit analysis, if you can quickly highlight. Honestly, at the scale at which we operate, all of these are very small marginal costs that come. The change in conversion overcomes the incremental cost very, very easily. It's not really a cost issue. It's more trying to find ways to get more business. I think, as you know, right, the economics of the health business with the renewal is really, really good. Spending a little bit of extra money upfront is not a challenge. See, we are at a very early stage. I'd like to close with one particular few statements, right? We are at a very, very early stage of evolution. We are solving a pretty big problem. What is the problem we are solving? At a high level, we are solving the social infrastructure problem, which is that social security. Most countries, whichever way, whether you talk about the government or the people, end up spending about 30% of all income on social security. Countries that spend a lot on social security is 30% of GDP. Countries which do not spend a lot of, then the people have to pay for the social security, either pay for it in cash or pay for it in kind in terms of agreed situations. But it's a very, very big industry, perhaps the biggest industry in the world. Within that, we are very specifically focused on the healthcare industry. And I know in some of the questions, at this point, you see us as a baby because some people are seeing it as some kind of an online platform that gets traffic. And yes, that's a starting point. But expect us, as we look into the future, to get deeper and deeper in this. At a fundamental level, the problem we are going to solve is what is the problem in healthcare, right? It's all about misaligned interests. A person does not want to buy insurance till they need it. By the time they buy insurance, nobody wants to give them insurance. The hospital wants to overcharge for stay. The insurance payer, payer, payee problems. Now, all these problems need to be ironed out and solved. Yes, our endeavor, if you ask us in the long run, is going to be to address all the problems. I emphasize on the word all, not on just the front-end demand side, which is where sometimes when I know we always never respond very properly on some questions. I think the mistake people make of looking at us is looking at us in a very static position and looking at us just the online platform. I think if you were to look at us from a 15-year point of view, that would be a mistake. That's at least not our endeavor. I wouldn't be happy if 15 years from now, we're just an online platform which is doing some comparison and sending traffic here and there. That would actually, from me personally, be quite a disaster. With that, I'll close now and look forward to these next 15 years. Thank you very much for joining. Yeah, thank you.