Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Mrinal Shrivastava, Company Secretary of Power Grid Corporation of India Limited. I have the privilege of introducing our board of directors. They are present here. We welcome Chairman and Managing Director, Shri K. Sreekant. Right to him is G. Ravisankar. He is the Director of Finance and Chief Financial Officer. Beside him, we have with us Shri V. K. Singh. He is Director of Personnel. Our Chairman and Managing Director is joined with Director Operations, Shri R. K. Tyagi. He is right, left to him. Extreme left we have with us Shri B. Anantha Sarma. He is Executive Director, Corporate Planning, Materials Management and Contracts. Ladies and gentlemen, please, I request you all to give few minutes to our corporate movie. Please. Electricity plays a vital part in the development of the country. Just by turning on one switch, our whole world, homes, markets, industries, roads, come alive. 463,377 circuit kilometers of transmission lines. 19,375 circuit kilometers of high voltage DC lines. Huge electric network of approximately 1.12 million megavolt ampere transmission capacity. With help of millions of skilled, dedicated workforce, the gift of electricity is being made available every moment to every corner of India. Today, in the remote areas of the country, electricity is being supplied easily as per requirement, which is helping in the constant development of the common man. From inaccessible high mountains, hot scorching sun in deserts, to far-flung dense forests, overcoming challenges of snow, heat, storm, man and machine together with all their strength and mutual harmony ensure that gift of light reaches to you and to all of us. National Grid of India is moving faster on an ambitious path of continuous progress. In order to meet the growing needs of the country, this grid has been extensively expanded and has seen technological upgradation and capacity expansion. As a result, today, with an inter-regional power transfer capacity of 112,250 megawatt, electricity is being delivered from one region to another in the country. National Grid is the symbol of progress in the country, also a flag bearer of success. Formed by connecting the northern, eastern, western, northeastern, and southern regional grids, National Grid is the strength of today's new and bright India. The country's vast transmission network is being monitored by National Load Despatch Centers and Regional Load Despatch Centers. Through state-of-the-art National Transmission Asset Management Centers and Regional Transmission Asset Management Centers, all the stations can now be managed remotely from one place and can be monitored in real time, so that any line tripping is reported immediately and rectification can be done as early as possible. For smooth operations and maintenance of the country's vast transmission network, latest technologies like aerial patrolling, GIS mapping, UAV, drones, Emergency Restoration Systems, Hot Line maintenance, digital substations are being practiced throughout the grid. The establishment of an organized National Grid in the country has made possible uninterrupted transmission of electricity throughout the country, while this step has also helped in providing affordable electricity to the countrymen. One area had electricity, but there was no one to take it, and another area ached to get electricity, lived in darkness, factories would close down. To bring change to that, One Nation One Grid One Price, we have succeeded in that. India's electricity grid is the world's largest integrated grid system, and it is our pride. The determination, the hard work, the belief of a better tomorrow. One Nation One Grid One Frequency is the determined step of the Government of India towards Atmanirbhar Bharat. Ujjwal Bharat. Ujjwal Bhavishya. Power at 2047. Thank you so much. Now, I humbly request our Chairman and Managing Director to address the gathering with his speech, please. A very good morning. I think that was more the context-setting video than a corporate presentation. Thank you for your time. I'll just briefly cover about Power Grid, the major highlights of this last quarter, performance overview for 2022, 2023, outlook. I think, now we have grown to be 37 subsidiaries. What happened? Mic is okay? Yeah. 37 subsidiaries, showing the growth of TBCBs in our fold. 174,000 circuit km, 272 substations, 97,290 MW of inter-regional transmission capacity. System availability, we'll talk a little later. About 45% of the power transmitted goes through our network in the country. This year we acquired 12 plus 1. 12 ISTS and 1 intrastate transmission companies under the TBCB bidding, about INR 1,200 crores of tariff. one of the highlights in our operational performance for the year 2021-2022, there is a benchmarking by ITOMS, International Transmission Operators, I think. And there we got to be the best utility in terms of transformer maintenance and third best in terms of vegetation management. I have a slide on this going forward. One of the major achievements is that, we transmitted 6.6 gigawatts from Chhattisgarh to southern region through our Raigarh-Pugalur link. This is, I think, the highest through a single line in the country. And we are very proud of this because this line was commissioned during the pandemic in very difficult times, and it is serving its purpose well. Coming to the performance highlights of 2022-2023. First, on CapEx. We have done CapEx of INR 9,200 crore against our target of INR 8,800 crore for 2022-2023. We have capitalized INR 7,413 crore of assets. Both the numbers on a consolidated basis. POWERGRID Medinipur-Jeerat, this is in West Bengal, Bihar, Jharkhand. This system has been completed. Bhuj transmission has been completed. This was critical for RE evacuation from Gujarat. Rampur-Sambhal intrastate transmission project in U.P. and Bhind-Guna, this is an intrastate transmission in Madhya Pradesh. Both these have been completed in this year. We added 29,000 MVA of transformation capacity, nine new substations and 2,972 circuit kilometers of lines. Operational performance, we maintained consistently 99.8%+ availability. 99.75% is the threshold for incentive, as you are aware, and we have been consistently above that. In terms of reliability, trippings per line per year have come down from 0.34 to 0.27 in 2022, 2023. Yeah. This is the ITOMS ranking, International Transmission Operation and Maintenance study. This is an independent study of participating transmission utilities all across the world. I think about 26 such utilities have participated. This measures performance on two parameters, cost and efficiency. Power Grid is in the top quadrant, best performance quadrant of high efficiency and low cost, both for transmission lines as well as substation maintenance. We are one of the 6 utilities globally who participated in this study and are in the top quadrant. We are very. It shows the best internationally comparable performance parameters of Power Grid in terms of asset management and operational. Some of the technologies we have adopted, we have adopted this methanol marker test kit for assessment of the insulation of our transformers and reactors. We have introduced resin impregnated bushings, 765 kV. These have been introduced in the line reactor at Satna. We started with a model for detection of line defects through AI and ML. We created in-house a model which will identify based on image processing the defects. We expect this, right now it is in a demo version or, before we go for it's in the prototype kind of a thing. It is having an accuracy of more than 70% in this, and we are expecting it to come full-fledged in the current financial year. Financials, you have already seen. We have released the numbers on Friday, so I'll not dwell much into this. This quarter we had a consolidated income of INR 12,557 crores, 13% growth. PAT had gone to INR 4,320 crores. Annually, the revenues were INR 45,968 crores on a standalone basis and INR 46,605 crores on a consolidated basis, and consolidated profit has been INR 15,417 crores. Last year we had an InvIT monetization program, due to which the profits were higher by about INR 3,700 crores. This year you won't see that. If you adjust for that, still we have a good 10% growth in the profits. These numbers are more for record. Yeah. In terms of our capital work in progress, as of 31st March, it is about INR 14,752 crore. Our debt equity has improved from 63:37 to 60:40. Return on net worth is 18.57% compared to 18.89% last year, and EPS has been INR 22.10. Some of the other key data which you seek, we have put it here. That will be available on the net shortly. I think, major is the surcharge income. It has come down this year, INR 182 crore compared to INR 375 crore. Incentive has gone up INR 544 crore. Average cost of borrowing remains at 7.5%. Marginal increase, maybe 40-50 basis points compared to last year. Dividend, we have increased the payout from 60%-67% just to maintain the INR 14.75 which we gave last year. We are balancing the requirements for our CapEx, the equity infusion, and also the payout. As I mentioned several times in the past as well, we don't want to keep idle cash. To the extent we need, we will retain the equity, and then we will continue to distribute. Telecom, one of the major segments we have other than transmission. This year the income has been INR 729 crores. One major development, CERC has approved the formation of subsidiary and transfer of telecom business to that subsidiary. We hope that by next quarter we should be seeing the telecom business hived off into a separate subsidiary. IL&F connectivity also, we have got the licenses, we have got the equipment, and we are going to start this business as well. We expect to give more focus to the telecom business in our quest to cross four-digit turnover through this separate subsidiary. Consultancy, we have again formed a subsidiary, POWERGRID Energy Services Limited. We'll transfer these consultancy businesses and also the various other business such as metering and operation maintenance, solar into this new subsidiary. Coming to commercial performance, INR 44,000 crores of billing, INR 43,688 of realization, about 99% realization. We improved in terms of debtor days significantly. The one-time settlement, the Electricity (Late Payment Surcharge and Related Matters) Rules, 2022, whatever has been settled through that scheme, we have been receiving very regularly. In terms of the works in hand today, it's about INR 50,000 crores. Ongoing RTM, about INR 11,500. New, where we are yet to give the investment approvals, INR 25,000 allotted, but yet to be taken off. TBCB projects under execution, about INR 13,000 crores. Again, we have targeted this year about INR 8,800 crores of CapEx, but I think there is a potential to push this up. Overall, if we look at the sectoral growth opportunities, as you are aware, there is a significant push for the renewable generation, installed capacities. Transmission plan for 500 gigawatts up to 2030 has been drawn and released by the government. Adjusted for the projects which have already been bid out, we see today by 2030 an opportunity of INR 1,90,000 crores in the interstate transmission system. About INR 1,96,000 crores in the intrastate. Cross-border transmission, about INR 20,000 crores. There is on top of it, whatever green hydrogen requirement is there. For that, there will again be transmission. By and large, we see a sectoral investment in excess of INR 4,00,000 crores in the transmission sector, in the next 7, 8 years kind of a framework. That shows definitely a significant opportunity set for the company even after we factor for TBCB and the competition. Of course, there are other areas which are pursuing. I hope that the solar generation, we will be able to start something this year. We have invited bids in 2020 to 2023, but then we got a higher price. Now with the change in the rules for sourcing, we expect better prices. We have already invited the revised bids. They are under consideration. Smart metering, we have given the offer of 67 lakh meters to Gujarat. It is under consideration. We hope that it will be soon settled so that we can start this work. International transmission projects in developer mode, we got the approval from the Kenyan government for a PPP mode project in Kenya, about $250 million investment in association with Africa50. We are now entering into the project development phase with the KETRACO. Few of the awards, Platts Global Energy Awards under corporate impact, critical response category, ATD for talent development, one of the best companies to work for in India, then CSR World Leader Award, best organization for women 2023 by Economic Times. I conclude here with my presentation. Thank you for your patient hearing. Thank you so much, CMD POWERGRID. The floor is open for interactive session. I request the participant to please introduce themselves with the name of the organization they are associated with before asking the questions. Thank you so much. Please. Good afternoon. I am Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. My first question is on the transmission CapEx. As you said, INR 4 trillion, which includes the interstate, intrastate, and the cross-border. My question is, the government has lined up INR 2.4 trillion, which is for renewables. How do you marry all this number with INR 2.4 trillion? Secondly, do you see the intrastate transmission activity picking up? We are still talking about INR 88 billion CapEx in FY 2024, while the requirement is, as per your projection, roughly INR 500 billion. When do you expect this number to go up for us and the industry? Further. When will this intrastate transmission come into play? There are, right now, UP, for example, is coming out with 3, 4 bids for intrastate transmission. Some of them are doing it on their own, and it is a bit delayed. Interstate is quickly coming. There is pace. Intrastate, I'm not able to put a finger and say it will come so quickly or not. So- Overall, see, INR 8,800 crores, which we targeted was, kind of, based on last year's estimate, so to say. When all these projects have not yet been fully decided. That is why I'm saying I'm optimistic that when the revised estimates are made, we may increase this CapEx. The related question is that are we seeing transmission bidding activity? Yes, definitely. picking up massively in FY 2024? Definitely. What kind of number, your ballpark number you can talk about? It is very difficult to put a ballpark number because it is a function of the projects which come and how much we will win in the TBCB mostly. I am very sure that there is a secular increasing trend in the transmission investments. Second question is on the monetization, right? We have been talking about for this last few years. Are you hopeful of doing any monetization or is it shelved or you're looking for alternate opportunities to monetize? We have, you know, the issue is monetization of cash flow. In the first trans which we did, the NMP was not then released. We transferred the shareholding to the InvIT, you know, of 5 operating assets. After the NMP has been released, there has been a very subtle shift in the stance that ownership will not be transferred. There will be transfer of rights to the cash flows, and then the assets should come back to the original owner and so on and so forth. In that matrix, we found rather than InvIT model, securitization of cash flows to be a better opportunity. More cost-effective, easy to do transaction. That is what we have done this year. We have raised more than INR 3,400 crores. Huh? Three four. INR 3,400 plus crores in this year through securitization. Monetization, securitization, I mean, it's fundraising ultimately at the end of the day. Whether we use the InvIT model or not, going forward, we are not very sure about it. In the sense that, you know, we have to evaluate at any given time what is the cost of funding, what is the government policy framework for that, and then take that call. At the current moment, securitization is a better option, which we have done. Sir, lastly, on the consultancy income, revenue is negative for the fourth quarter. What is the reason? There was a certain change in the terms of one contract with the government, with retrospective effect, so we had to make adjustment for that revenue. Has this any impact on the profitability? Oh, definitely. How much can you quantify that? about INR 150 crore. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. INR 150 crores this year, yes. That is past amounts. Yeah, please. Sir, Ramesh Bhojwani from Mehta & Makir. First and foremost, your presentation is all-encompassing. It has covered each and every detail and every aspect of the company. Very heartening to see that you have registered a growth of 12% in the top line and a 10% in the bottom line. Would like to know, will this be improved upon in the coming year, or will it be maintained at the same levels? No, I mean, it is a function of our asset addition and all. You know, I don't think, I mean, double-digit growth, 10% continuously is difficult to maintain. Let me put it very clearly. Top line of 12% is achievable? No. No. No. Okay. second thing you mentioned that you are in the We should be seeing around 7%-8% kind of a growth. Seven, eight. That's more certain. Okay. second thing is, sir, you mentioned you are actively executing or pursuing the 67 lakh smart meter order from Gujarat. Because smart meters, I believe, are a need of the hour, looking at the T&D losses or, putting it plain and simple, power thefts happening all around the country. Why only Gujarat? Why not on a all India basis a tender be floated and on a war footing these meters be installed? We have a joint venture called EESL. It in turn has a joint venture called IntelliSmart. This IntelliSmart and EESL both are into smart metering business. We have been mandated by the government to put up 1 crore meters under nomination route, so that is how we have gone to Gujarat. We have a demand for about 67 lakh meters there. We are pursuing that. Perfect. Lastly, As you have isolated, separated, created a telecom subsidiary and a consulting subsidiary, are you intending to take both these subsidiaries public going forward in the coming year? That is premature at this stage. Let us see how they go, how they do this. Telecom definitely has a certain potential. Yes. Let us see. Thank you, and all the best. This is Rohit from Antique Stock Broking. You said something about the data center business and international transmission projects in developer mode. Could you throw some color on it? What exactly the opportunity size, the quantum, the numbers? That would be really helpful. In the international transmission, we are pursuing two opportunities, one in Kenya and one in Tanzania. Okay? Tanzania is still behind. We are engaging with the authorities, but in Kenya it is much more advanced. We have covered a lot of ground, and we got the in-principle approval to start with the discussions for the contractual documents and all for the transmission system in Kenya. The investment there is about $250 million. We will be having, I think, 40% stake, and Africa50 will have 60% stake in SPV equity. This is the opportunity set. What we are now required to do is, we have given a definitive proposal to them, so we have to now negotiate the transmission service agreement, payment security, and things like that, and execute it once we get the final approvals. Tanzania also I think is about what? $400 About s ize of the assets. Investment about $400 million. That is about $400 million, but then it is still at an early stage. Besides these, there are no concrete proposals which we are pursuing. I mean, this is. We are eager to do in Africa, but then we want to go with Africa50 or some way where, you know, the risk of that investment is mitigated, either implicitly or through some agreements. That is one. As far as data center business is concerned, we got approval of CRC to set up one at our Manesar complex. That is, we are in tendering stage. Once we have a certain grip on it, then we would like to pursue it further. Relative to our transmission, this is not going to be a very significant business. Within the telecom it will be a significant. That the idea is that because it is remaining within the larger balance sheet, it is not getting the due attention. Once it goes into a separate company and their own revenue targets, so they should be able to push this further. To add on this, if you could touch upon even that solar generation part, how big is that number that you are strategically pursuing? We have a bid right now for 85 megawatts in Nagda, Madhya Pradesh. As I mentioned, we did 1 round of tendering, but the prices were a bit high. With the change in procurement, we have again gone for tender. In addition, another 100 megawatts at 3, 4 sites together is there. Overall, we have about 260 odd megawatts, which is available and which we want to pursue. Our target is to get 50% of our total energy consumption through renewable sources, either in-house or through contracting by 2025. This is also part of our SDG initiatives to take it. Sure. Thank you. We have today, how many? 6 megawatt It's around 8.5. 8.5 MW P of solar, rooftop solar at different locations. Those are all smaller installations. Yeah, please. Good morning, sir. This is Shivdeep here from Nuvama. I have 2 questions. Firstly, on the HVDC projects, would you be able to give us an update as to how do you see those 4 large HVDC projects coming up in terms of tendering and ordering activity? I think they will come for tendering sooner. I think one of them is under reconsideration, whether it should be HVDC or not. The Fatehpur-Bhadla system, that one is more likely to come sooner for tendering. Globally, HVDC demand is very high right now, so it will be quite a challenge to, you know, meet the timelines also. Because in Europe and all, because of RE integration offshore, there is a lot of HVDC demand. Suppliers are only two, three. It is a challenge. Do you see the domestic suppliers of HVDC technology, not really having the ability of facing some kind of technology shortfall in case these bids come? No, there is no technology shortfall. No, no. Don't mistake me. There is no technology shortfall here. It is the capacity constraint. It is the manpower constraint which can come in the way of meeting these tight timelines, because global demand is very high. Understood. We understand that the Leh-Ladakh project might take some time to come in terms of ordering. Is there any other project that you mentioned which is now being reconsidered? Leh-Ladakh is right now, studies are going on. We have to do FEEDs, what is called front-end engineering and design study, FEED study. Okay? Typically, we used to, in the past, award the contract and then this design used to take place. Okay? Because of the harsh weather conditions, geographical conditions of that place, it is not possible to give a good bid without doing much of these design aspects first. We have engaged Hitachi as well as Siemens to do their study. They are doing the study in two parts. First part, they will do the system, that is the network studies. They will do... Because in that location there is lot of inverter-based generation. It will be wind, solar, and then there will be battery. All these three inverter-based will interact with the HVDC system and the network. There is no other source of power there. Because of that, they need to do detailed network studies first to determine the parameters of their system. It is each, unique to each, service provider. That is one. They will do studies to design the IGBT, the controllers, and the other equipment, the hardware, because it has to operate in those temperature conditions. There is issue of cosmic rays and so on and so forth. They have to design. These two studies will take place, then they will be in a position to freeze their technical parameters to make a good bid. The work is on. It is not that work is not on. Work is on, but only thing is we don't have a proper bid and price and ordering and all in the conventional sense of it. Otherwise, we have placed 2 orders, one order on Siemens and one order on Hitachi to do the studies, and we are paying them a good amount of money for it. Understood. Which is the project that you mentioned is now being reconsidered? Is it the Khavda project? I think the Khavda project. I have to check that. Okay. Understood. I remember that there was one HVDC- Right. Yeah. From Khavda to Akola. Understood. Khavda 2, KPS2. Understood. Thank you. Last question from my side. You also had some plans of partnering with DISCOMs and, you know, partnering on the CapEx side of DISCOMs or the intrastate CapEx, and I think there were some discussions. They have not taken off. Understood. Thank you so much. Good morning, sir. INR 300. INR 300 million. Yeah, I stand corrected. The Tanzanian investment is about $300 billion. Okay? Yeah. Sagar, we are from Fintuit Investments. I have a couple of questions. The first one is from the stage like the smart meter project that you took. Based on the last call's data, you shared that the project CapEx would be something around INR 5,500 crore to INR 6,000 crore and we would be generating an income of something around INR 700 crore on an annual basis. Don't you think it's a bit of a ROC dilutive? And I just wanted to ask based on this, like, whatever projects or CapExes that you are doing, what is the IRR that you are targeting or the payback period that you have in mind before you take any project on an average? What is the rule that you follow? The second question would be on the debt schedule, like the current debt that we have. Are we comfortable on it? What are we looking in the next couple of years? What could be our peak debt, seeing the CapExes, which are planned? That will be all. As far as smart meters is concerned, you know, relative to our size and all, it is not a very big opportunity, but it is not ROE dilutive. It is certainly not ROE dilutive. It doesn't require so much of investment also. That is what we realized because the moment you install the meter, it will start earning its own. There is a lot of cash flows which it throws up. It's not ROE dilutive. As far as the, current... I mean, payback period is quite long for a transmission asset. I don't think payback is the right measure. But as far as returns are concerned, you know, we have to go with the market. We cannot have a targeted benchmark like ROE 15.5% we will do a project, otherwise we will not do the project. No, that will not work. We have to see what is the current market condition and fight accordingly because it is all competitive bidding. Peak debt, I think peak debt we have already crossed in a way because today we have 125,000 and 60:40 debt equity ratio. I remember we used to be around close to 69 kind of numbers also debt equity. So we have pared down quite a bit. Not only repayments, but also internal accruals and then the declining capital investment, all these have contributed to this improvement in the debt equity ratio. So absolute number may go up a bit down, that's not the key measure. In terms of the ratio, we have crossed the peak. Okay. You said that we do competitive bidding, so there's no ballpark number that we can give on returns. Something like, so if you could just give me an average. What was the average returns on whatever CapExes you took in the last three to four years? What could be the assumption in the CapExes that we will be taking? The last three year results are before you, so you can make an assessment what we are making or what we are not making. I'm not going to give any number on that. I'm not going to even disclose what is the kind of rate of return for which we are targeting or bidding. It is a competitive market out there. We have to get a market share. We can't leave the market totally out and, you know, wait for the best returns we have in mind. Whatever market is offering, we have to take it and then wait for opportunities. Okay. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Sir, I'm Atul from Citi Research. Just a couple of questions. Could you elaborate on capitalization plans for FY 2024 and 2025? Okay. I'll just give. Any other, any next question. Sir, my second question is on your comment regarding the asset monetization strategy. Of course, securitization is an easier way, but after all, it remains a debt on the balance sheet. While injection into InvIT, you know, the money comes as equity to the company. What are your thoughts regarding that difference between debt and equity? Yeah. 2023, 2024, we are likely to do about INR 11,000 crore of capitalization. Okay? INR 10,000 crore-INR 11,000 crore of capitalization. Between, you know, if you do transfer to InvIT and all, then there is a counter to it in terms of, you know, it hampers the growth or there is no growth and continuous cash flows will not be there. Debt is not all that bad. We have only 60/40. We have the capacity to take that debt. It doesn't matter in TBCB how much debt you inject or you don't, you know. Why we should be, I mean, it's not that debt is to be avoided. We are not highly levered that we need equityOkay. We are generating enough internal resources. As on date, from purely cost of funding point of view, securitization is more beneficial. Okay? Yeah. The margin or the delta between raising through InvIT and raising through securitization is a bit steep today compared to what it was when we did the first transaction. Okay? We believe today this suits us better. It is good for the company. We are adopting this. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, one more. For financial year FY 2025, I know obviously CapEx and capitalization numbers would not have been frozen as of now. Could you qualitatively comment? Could we see, say, a substantial increase from this INR 9,000 crore and INR 11,000 crore number, or will it likely be in the ballpark of, say, 5%-10% only? It should be long, higher than that. It should be higher than that. That is what the first question was about. We believe that 2024, 2025, 2026 should see a substantial pickup in the CapEx, because that will be required to support the kind of RE expansion that is planned. Definitely it will be there. Sir, Ginesh from Morgan Stanley. Just on your international business that you just spoke about, a few clarification. Is this a dollar tariff? The $250 million, is that a 100% of your stake? The third one was- $250 million is the project size. Project size. You cut, you will not get so big a stake. Okay. what kind of returns? Dollar tariff. Dollar tariff. Normalized. Is it in line with your regulated returns or it'll be lower than that number? In Kenya, there is no concept of regulated returns, so we have to engage with them. We have been engaging with their regulator about the availability-based tariff for transmission. Otherwise, there is a system of payment on a per unit basis. We said that won't work. You need to adopt the Indian system of payment on availability. That, in principle, they have agreed, but those contours have to be drawn and also. Let me put it this way, that our partnership with Africa50 has been on the fundamental that the returns are much attractive. How soon do you close this, like, I mean, the firm approvals from? This year we are targeting to do the financial closure for the Kenyan project. It will be executed over next two years, FY 2025 and 2026. Two, two and a half years it should be executed. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Last one or two questions, please. Otherwise, Yeah, over there. Deepika. Mic. Mic, please. Thanks. Sir, this is Deepika Mundra from JP Morgan. Regarding the bidding pipeline, I think last time you had mentioned that you're looking at, you know, close to INR 60,000 crores of new project bids coming up. Of course, last few months you've seen Power Grid win a substantial number of projects. Can you give us some color as to how does the bid pipeline look for the next couple of years? In terms of the competitive intensity and number of players that you see participating now, is there any difference? In terms of competitive intensity, there is not much change. There's not much change. Though there were two projects recently, I won't take them as indicators. There were only two bids. Those are very small projects, so I don't, I won't draw much meaning from them. There were only two bidders in those two projects. The projects are very difficult and very small, so I don't think. In terms of our bidding pipeline, Just a minute. How much is the bidding pipeline? About INR 3,000-3,500 crores. INR 31 thousand is under bidding. Huh? ABC is 31,000 under bidding. 31 is under bidding, no? 31,000 is right now under bidding. 31,000 is right now under bidding. It is continuously coming. Sir, any update on when are we likely to see the CERC tariff for the next five-year block in terms of when are you expecting the first draft paper to come? It will come anytime now. I mean, they will first issue an approach paper, then a draft regulation and all. They are working on it. Typically, they issue the regulations what? January, so around there. Okay. Thank you. I'm very happy this year, this block, we have not started the discussion on ROE yet. That's good to know. Last block, even after, soon after two years, I had to start answering it for three years. Sir, this is Sudhanshu Bansal from JM Financial. Sir, in telecom business particularly, how do we see monetization of this opportunity and next five years, what is your vision for that? No, telecom, we are not looking to do any monetization. No, no, monetization in the sense, I mean the opportunity, like using opportunity- Opportunity is good. Yeah. Telecom opportunity is good. See, we have about 80-plus thousand kilometers of OPGW. Our network is on top of the towers, so it is rodent-free and it is very reliable. Near 100% backbone availability we are giving. We have good set of customers, and we are increasing it. Our target is this year to get INR 1,000 crores income. Like, I'm just interested in knowing the long-term vision, like how we are going to capitalize on this so much of assets we have. In the time, like today it's INR 1,000 crore, let us say after five years, how much it will be? It's very difficult. I mean, I won't hazard such number. The issue is there is a increasing demand for quantum, but the prices fall. Telecom is such a business, the prices continuously fall. 10% discount is like a norm. It's very difficult to kind of project that we will become INR 1,200 crores, INR 1,500 like that. I mean, I won't hazard such guess. Okay. Thank you, sir. The idea to separate it out is that, one, to insulate from any kind of, you know, some future shock like that AGR. Second, to give more focus and kind of see that growth and whether at some good time we can take it out public or do something. That, that kind of a opportunity is there. Yeah. Hi, sir. Kauninya from JP Morgan again. Thanks for the opportunity. I just want to understand a bit on the capitalization front. FY 2024 capitalization was still maintained at INR 110 billion, despite a sort of miss in FY 2023. I understand it's a project business, therefore there could be some spillover effect. Should we understand that, you know, maybe FY 2024 guidance is sort of conservative and there can be an upside over there? Upside over CapEx or capitalization? On the capitalization front. Capitalization, we gave INR 10,000-11,000 kind of guidance. I mean, the reason I'm asking this question is because FY 2023 there was a miss. If there's a spillover, ideally it should have picked up in FY 2024. That is factored here. That is sort of factored in. Factored, yeah. Understood. Sir, on the receivables front, I can see sort of improvement. Is it determined by that Pugalur project where there were some pending receivables or? Pugalur project, there has been final tariff order, so we got the money. The late payment surcharge rules, no? The rules and the subsequent payment system, it is working well, so we are getting all the money. Whatever arrears for Pugalur, they also settled that. Understood. Sir, lastly, if I may ask one more question. On the peer benchmarking that based on the study, if I look on the substation front, I think there's still some scope for improvement when compared with the peers. Correct me if I am wrong. Given the substantial RE integration that needs to be done and with significant CapEx over there on the substation front, do you see some scope of improvement? If you can also throw some color on competition within India over there, how we rank in that front? Thank you very much. No. Substation front, you are very right. In terms of cost, we are closer here than that. Now we are trying to make efforts in that direction. It's a continuous process. Actually, we are also reviewing, Maybe you can supplement in terms of what we are doing to reduce cost. You have been very quick to catch this, huh? Yeah. I must say. Actually it is comparative studies. If we do better, other utilities also do still better. To maintain very efficient at low cost is a challenge. However, with the technology, we are trying to optimize our cost. For operation, all stations are remotely operated, remotely controlled as on today. Now we are working in direction of patrolling by helicopter, patrolling by drone, and even for transformer and breakers. Asset Health indexing we have introduced, so we are hopeful that our performance and our efficiency will further improve. By that way, we can still improve the efficiency and cost for substation equipments also. In substation, big cost is manpower cost. Okay? On manpower cost, you cannot reduce beyond a point. We are trying to do through TBCB. That is the reason to shift it to PESL. Through PESL, we will adopt a model which can have more outsourcing, more different wage structure so that we can reduce the cost. That is one idea. Sir, just on that, I mean, how do we compare with the peers within the country? I mean, the competition is essentially TBCB projects out here. If you can throw some color on that. We have to... How do we compare? I have not compared, but we are fighting for that market share, we are trying to evolve our business model in terms of what manpower deployment, what kind of maintenance practices. We have identified few elements of cost which are high in our case structurally because of the say for example, security. We have to follow a certain security protocol, certain sourcing of security services, that pushes up the cost. We have to navigate through that and find ways. If we cannot reduce it, then we have to sacrifice something else. I mean, it's, it is overall. Of course, there is always a constant effort to identify because O&M cost is a significant part of that tariff. It moves the tariff significantly. If I may squeeze in one more question. sir, just on the TBCP front. How do the lenders differentiate between your RTM projects and TBCP projects with respect to interest rate differential or terms? Why do they have to differentiate? Essentially you mean to say the terms and rate of interest remain the same? Yeah. I mean, we are giving them the balance sheet. How does it matter whether we put it in the TBCB or on RTM or where do we do? Got it, sir. Thank you very much. We can conclude. Thank you so much for so much of active in-interaction with our team of board of directors. We would like to convey that our lunch. We are all invited to the lunch. There is a bit time in that. We will start at 12:30 P.M. Stay with us, and if you want to further interact, you are most welcome. Thank you.