Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Relaxo Footwears Limited Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajiv Bharti from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah. Thank you so much, Leah. Good evening, everyone. Representing DAM Capital, it is our absolute pleasure to host Relaxo Footwears Limited for its Q4 FY24 conference call. From the management side, we have Mr. Ramesh Kumar Dua, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Gaurav Kumaar Dua, Whole-time Director, Mr. Ritesh Dua, Executive Vice President, Finance, Mr. Sushil Batra, Executive Director and Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Ankit Jain, Company Secretary. We'll begin the call with a brief discussion from the management, and then we'll open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Sushil. Thank you, Rajiv. Good evening. Can you hear me, Rajiv? Yes, sir. Yeah. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our Q4 and full-year FY 2024 earnings call to discuss the financial and operational performance of the company. We have already uploaded the earnings press release and the investor presentation on the stock exchanges, as well as at our website, and hope that you have had the opportunity to go through those. Before we begin the question-answer session, let me quickly go through the Q4 and FY 2024 performance, starting with Q4. During Q4 FY 2024, we recorded revenue of INR 747 crore as compared to INR 765 crore in Q4 FY 2023, reporting a marginal decline of 2.3% year-on-year on account of slight decline in volumes. EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 120 crore, up by 2% year-on-year from INR 118 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. EBITDA margins were up marginally by 69 basis points and stood at 16.1% in Q4 FY 2024, as against 15.4% in Q4 FY 2023. That was at INR 61 crore as compared to INR 63 crore reported in Q4 FY 2023. That margin for Q4 FY 2024 remained flat at around 8.2%. Now, coming on the full year FY 2024, we have achieved a moderate growth of 4.7% year-on-year from INR 2,783 crore in FY 2023 to INR 2,914 crore in FY 2024. This performance was largely driven by a significant uptick in open footwear volume, a witness to the efficacy of our strategic initiative to regain market share. EBITDA for the year was at INR 407 crore, as against INR 336 crore in FY 2023, registering a growth of 21.1%. EBITDA margin was at 14%, improved by 188 basis year on year, as against 12.1% in FY 2023. Margin majorly benefited from the softening of raw material prices, which was partially offset by the increased fixed cost. That was at INR 200 crore in FY 2024, as compared to INR 150 crore in FY 2023, recording a significant growth of 29.8%. That margin was at 6.9% during FY 2024, against 5.6% in FY 2023, improving by 133 basis points year-on-year. In FY 2024, the company incurred a total CapEx of INR 248 crore, including a purchase of 30-acre land parcel in Bhiwadi, Rajasthan, worth INR 127 crore. We remain a net debt-free company, supported by a positive cash from operations. Our key strengths include our in-house manufacturing capability, strong distribution network, product quality, and strong brand recognition. We continue to explore new avenues and focus on other new channels and e-commerce platform for growth. We are confident that our ongoing efforts will lead favorable result for us in the future. Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just two questions in the beginning. This 5 million, 5 crore pieces what we have sold in quarter four, against 5.1 in the quarter one. So can you give some more color, what segment, which segment, and which markets is driving this? And something more on the inventory side. Is the inventory is now under control in the trade, or, do you think it will take some more time? And the second question is on the pricing bit. What kind of pricing aspiration we will hold, or we will continue the similar price over FY 2025? ... Yeah, this is Gaurav. Just to answer your question, Q4, when we started, there was a, you know, QCO or the BIS was implemented. So if you see that subdued growth or little minus coming in, that the main reason was that we were implementing BIS. So there was some confusion in the market how it will be implemented. So we increased price marginally, and then we saw that we were able to implement all this BIS. And regarding... What is the second question? I'm saying the growth, what we have seen in number of pairs. Quarter one was 5.1, and quarter four has come back to 5. So any color, what kind of growth we are seeing in number of pairs, which is now remained at 5 crore on an average? No, the, our month January was affected because of BIS. That's why we were not able to cover that, we could not cross that 5.1 figure. But if the similar trend has continued, and the question was, the parallel question was that whether the inventory is now, adjusted or normalized, or still there will be some effect which can be seen in quarter one? So inventory is now normalized. There's no problem with inventory, and I think now the things have started picking up in the market. Okay. The second question is that in terms of pricing aspiration, what should we look in FY 25? Is the price increases will happen or will remain at where we are? I'm Ramesh Kumar Dua. You know, pricing depends upon our cost of the inputs. If the input remains stable, then prices also remain stable. So by and large, we have to make sure we are always competitive in the markets. Keeping that thing in view, we have our pricing strategy. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Devanshu Bansal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Okay, sir. Hi, thanks for taking my question. Sir, we have invested in acquiring this land parcel during the year for enhancing our manufacturing capacity. I just wanted to check, what is the current capacity utilization, and what is the expected increase in the capacity with this new addition? Capacity utilization around 65%. You know, the land parcel that we bought, you know, we have to always stay ahead of the curve, because land searching is always a time-consuming, so of future growth. So we have land in our hand, so whenever we want to increase production, then we have to start the process of building the factory because we are always having greenfield projects, and then we take steps accordingly. So that is something, keeping future in view that we have acquired this land. Understood, sir. Follow-up to this is, there is lot of substandard open footwear being imported as of now, which should, in my opinion at least, be restricted after BIS implementation. So is this capacity expansion somewhat factoring in restricted imports from other countries, which may sort of lead to higher demand from local players like Relaxo? You know, earlier also before implementation of BIS, the product category we were in, by and large, our, the Hawaii segment, nothing was imported. It is only where, footwear industry were not able to make that kind of products, they were being imported. Now, after this kind of restriction, definitely some shoes, some EVA slippers, their import will be restricted. A particularly low quality, the EVA slipper were being imported, so there will be restriction on that. So indirectly, we may have some benefit. Let us wait and see. Yes, sir, that's what I'm trying to ask. So is this benefit going to be large in quantum, or is it just a small benefit that can come to players like Relaxo? No, I don't think it is going to be very large. Where overall import was hardly 5%-6% of the Indian consumption. That is going to be restricted. Understood, sir. Understood. And, one last question is, our ROE is currently at, 8%-10% over last two years. So how do you see this levels and, any trajectory that you would like to, sort of highlight, in the initiatives that the company is taking to improve this? Any ROE, definitely because the profits were under pressure in the last 2-3 years, so that's why it has come down, and we have added more assets in the system. So from next year or in coming time, it should... Growth will be there, so it will improve definitely. Okay. Last, sorry, final bookkeeping question is, sir, while revenues have grown by about only 4%-5% in this year, the receivable increase is about 30-odd%. Is this something one-off or why is this number increased at FY 2024 end? This has increased because there is a pressure in the market, you know, the demand is subdued. So because of pressure in the market, there's an increase of the outstanding. So the payments are slow. You can say the payment is slow in the market. Understood, sir. Thanks for taking my question. ...Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prerna Jhunjhunwala from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Would like to understand the demand outlook in both open footwear and closed footwear. How do you see for the next one year and beyond, and what are the figures for the same? See, as you see, the sports segment is growing faster than the open footwear category. But lastly, what we have seen is that open has grown more than the closed footwear. The sports shoes. So the industry, if you talk about 3-4 years time, sports footwear or closed footwear will definitely exceed in growth compared to the open footwear. Okay. And, what are current capacities, if we see the breakup of the two, and, what is the revenue share of the two segments? See, as a company, Relaxo as a whole, our closed footwear contributes 20%, and open footwear contribute 80%. But one of the brand, which is Sparx, there it is 65% closed, 60% closed and 40% open. So we are trying to grow this category, Sparx, you know, which has more contribution and it has more contribution of closed footwear. Okay. Why was it closed footwear under pressure this year? I did not understand that part. So that is because of the demand, you know, and lot of, you can say, lot of new entrants have come in the markets, and the price what they are offering, but there's more, more supply than demand. You know, in last two years, a lot of capacity has been put in by the other players. Okay. So you mean there's an oversupply of products in the market? Correct. Correct. Local, local players are there, yeah. So you see that oversupply correcting in how much time? Is it, is it fair to us, I mean, understand that, or it will be all market forces? It depends upon market, yeah. It depends upon the market, but consolidation will happen definitely. Okay, okay. And, will you please help us understand the brand-wide revenue share as well? It's already we have shared in our investor presentation, but even then I can tell you. So Relaxo is contributing Relaxo with Bahamas 25%, and then Sparx and Flite both are equal, so 25%, Relaxo plus Bahamas, and rest 50/50, Sparx and Flite. Okay. So Relaxo and Bahamas, 25%, Flite, 25%. So Flite is 37, and Sparx is 37. So 50% of 75, divided by 2, 37.5, roughly 50-50. Okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, and I may come back with the question to you. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vidisha Seth, from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Yes, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. On the... My first question is on the market share. In Q2, you had mentioned about gaining market share that was lost in FY 2023. So any comments on how market share has moved in the second half of the year? That was my first question. Yes, you must have read, we have sold maximum number of pairs. We have touched 19.5 crores. That is all-time high. So this is done by more sales in open footwear. So we have gained, our volume growth is more than the value growth. Okay. So on value basis, market share would have increased? Yes, correct. Correct. Got it. Got it. And, the second question was, we've always been talking about increasing our agency and presence in the South of India. So any incremental initiatives that are being undertaken to increase the share from that region? So, we have implemented DMS across India. So DMS has been implemented throughout. Now, we have launched the app. So this is a retailer app. We are doing engagement with the retailer now. So with the help of the app, we are able to touch 50,000 outlets. So 50,000 outlets have downloaded this app. So there's a direct connect from company to the retailer now. So if you talk about South, last year, South, we, there was a little decline in sales. There were pressure in the market, so we're just trying to maintain that market share. Okay. And, essentially, this app that we're talking about, would that largely help from a more accurate demand forecasting perspective? Correct, correct. Demand focus. A lot of things. We can even pass on the gifts to the retailer directly. We'll understand what is the market demand and which outlets are demanding what, how the mar... What is the market share of this outlet, you know? A lot of data will come through that. Understood. That's all from me. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press Star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Onkar Ghungade from Shree Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon. My question was mainly regarding the revenue, which has been flattish for the last three years. I mean, what kind of revenue projections you can model for this? And you have talked about the industry growing at, say... I mean, not industry, the footwear market size growing by around 15%-17% in next few years. So your growth has been 3%-5.4%. You are projecting the market size to be around, growing at 15%-17%. So what kind of projections we can go ahead with? ... You know, this year we have taken certain sales strategic initiatives, in which we have launched the DMS, which will control our or keep an eye on secondary sales. Then we have improved our retailers connect. We have also, through BAS, brand as seller and e-commerce platform, selling direct to consumer. So all this information which we'll gather through all these three apps, will be a kind of a big source of knowing market, what is what. And all this combined effort will help us penetrate and grow better in the coming time. Yeah, but if you can specifically guide us, like, what low digit growth or like mid-teen growth or low single digit growth, or what kind of growth you are expecting, have you? Not say one year, say three year if you can do. We are expecting double-digit growth this year. which you haven't done for last three years. Yes, because a lot of initiative we have taken, and this lot of sales transformation is taking place, whose fruits will bear this year onwards. Okay. What kind of margins are sustainable on a medium-term basis? Around 15%-16% EBITDA you can, that is, you can expect. 15%-16% of EBITDA? 15-16. Yeah, 15%-16% of EBITDA, correct? Yes. Okay, but the, even the EBITDA percent for last 2-3 years has been, like, ranging from 12%, 14%, 15%. So like, sustainable basis, you can say 15%-16% is possible, right? No, next year, it is going to be like that. Okay. We had difficulty here, you know, because raw material volatility was too much. Achieved in this quarter also. This year, if you can see this quarter, we have achieved 16% EBITDA. Yeah. Yeah, this quarter. Yeah. You can talk more about, like, the competitive intensity. What kind of competitive intensity you are seeing currently in the market? You mean that is always there, it will always remain. So we have to keep ourselves more competitive than others, and that is our focus. Yeah, but just now you said that there were some new entrants, so because of that, what kind of competition level is currently? So, sir, more people, when they come into industry, you know, they pass on more credit in the market. You know, they pass on more discount in the market. So this happens once in five, six years, but now the things will consolidate, and we will definitely gain the market share. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Tanmay Gupta from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, I just wanted to understand, the revenue declined 2% in this quarter, and gross margins improved to 60%. Is that because of the, you know, high sales in closed footwear for this quarter? Is my understanding right? The sales were not high in this. The open footwear was more, if you talk about sales. So, sir, just wanted to understand where the gross margin lever is coming from? We have taken a moderate price increase. Okay. In the open footwear? Yes. Correct, correct. So, because of the raw material price increase, we have taken or, you know, we will maintain these prices going forward? We'll maintain these prices. It depends upon, you know, raw material also. Plus, because of BIS, a lot of, we have improved the quality, we have improved the specs of our articles for our products also. So it's mixed, it's both. We can expect, like, 58%-60% of gross margins going forward, I believe? Yes. Yeah. Understood, sir. And sir, second question is on the sportswear. So, like, sportswear could be around INR 200 crore-INR 250 crore in the Sparx? Sparx, we have done 400+. No, in the sport, in the sportswear. Sportswear could be like, how much of the Sparx total? 50%. 50% is that. If you talk about closed, closed footwear, 55% is closed of total INR 1,000 crore what we do in Sparx. Right. Right. So, sir, like, I just wanted to understand the strategy, in, you know, increasing our closed footwear penetration, because, as you said, a lot of unorganized players have also come up, and, we have obviously the competition from the organized. So looking, going forward, are we, you know, how will we penetrate, the footwear, closed footwear in the market? And, you know, with the price range or premiumization, or what kind of strategy, if you can, little bit, tell me. A lot of steps, like, you know, it's not special this year. Every year we take a lot of steps, like, you know, it depends upon the launching of, the new NPDs we launch every year, and then, new markets, new distributor, opening new outlets, then, e-commerce, the penetration in e-commerce. Earlier it was through a distribution article, through BAS. You know, lot of, lot of steps. There are like 15, 20 steps we take. You know, the strategy we can't define right now. ... Yeah, means the price range would be around INR 400-INR 600, means the mass segment we will be focusing on. You're talking about ASP INR 400-INR 600 or what? Yeah, means ASP and, in the trade distribution channel, like that. ASP will be almost similar. We'll try to improve that. That the Sparx ASP is more than INR 450. Yeah, overall. Understood, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Varun Gajaria from Boring AMC. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Hi, sir, thank you for taking my question. Just wanted to understand, so how is the supply chain aligned in terms of sourcing R&D import, raw materials? So how is it aligned at this point? And I'll ask a follow-up question after this. Currently, supplies are consistent. It's not any much of a challenge in sourcing the material. The materials, natural rubber, we are sourcing here in India itself, and other polymers like EVA, they are being imported and it has been always there. So currently, we don't find any challenge in that. Okay. So So these polymers are imported from China, normally? No, no, not China. There are a lot of other countries. Okay. Got it. So there's no challenge there in terms of sourcing from anywhere? I don't think we source any polymer from China. Okay. Got it. And what is the impact of BIS that we've been seeing on, on overall raw material supply and the relevant demand across industry? Because it seems there's been some commentary in the market that currently, some of the factories based out in China have not been approved. So, sourcing of sportswear especially has been a challenge since the last few months. So how do you see that trending in terms of inventory and, you know, overall demand? The overall, as far as we are concerned, we have implemented this, BIS standards. It is the people who have been importing and depending on them, they maybe they will face some problems, but as far as we are concerned, we have been our own manufacturer and selling, so we will have no issue of that. All right. All right. Okay. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Chandra Govindaraju from Ashmore. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. What was the Relaxo mix last year for FY 23? Also channel mix or brand-wise mix. What, what you are asking, which mix? I'm looking for the revenue mix. No, but revenue brand wise or what? Brand wise. 25% is from Relaxo and Bahamas, and 37 from Flite, and 38% is from Sparx. Okay. That is for this year, right? Right, I am asking for FY 23. What was the mix? Revenue wise, more or less. Revenue wise, it was more or less because volume has grown in the open footwear, but value mix is more or less same. There's no, not much change. But, major change is not... Major change is in the volume, but value wise, it's more or less same, 25 and 37, 37, like that. Okay, okay. What I want, I am trying to understand is in terms of pricing, did Sparx also had corrections? That's what I was, I'm trying to understand. In Sparx, there's no correction. There's no correction. We are maintaining the volumes, and we have grown in volume, our value is low, low single digit. That is in open footwear. Yeah. Major volume growth is in open footwear. If I remember correctly, last year, when we spoke, we were looking for more premiumization of Sparx. Because there was raw material volatility and all, you might have not increased the prices, but can we expect price increases in Sparx in this year, for FY 25? No, we have been developing our new products as per the requirement of the market, so premium products are also coming. Not that we have restricted anything. Now, ultimately, it is the need of the consumer or pickup in the market, what happens. But we are offering premium article also in the market. Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vikas Jain from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead. Yes, sir, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is with respect to this implementation of quality control. This lead to Mr. Jain, we're not able to hear you. Hello? Yeah. Hello? Sir... ... Hello, is it better now? Yes, sir, please go ahead. The question was, with the quality control being implemented now, has that led to any increase in the cost or production cost per pair for us or any sort of something? Is there any meaningful uptick that you're seeing in that? Well, there has been some moderate increase in costs, which we have already accordingly passed down and revised the rates. So not a major issue at all. All right. Our quality is also, you know, good. We have been always quality-conscious players, so it was not much of a thing. Only certain specs which government wanted to have, so we have aligned this. Correct. Correct, correct. So then in that scenario, how do you rate the implementation across, competition that are operating in the same price points? And how do you think the adherence is being, like, implementation, how would you rate implementation actually going on, on that level? Are the competitor and everyone following that aggressively? You know, as per the rule, government has exempted micro and small from this implementation of QCO. Correct. It is only on medium and large industry. We are one of the large industries, so as far as we are concerned, we have implemented. Right. But at a ground level, are you seeing that because some players are exempted, is there any differential that has been created or any impact coming out of it on the overall demand? No, we do not see that. It's too early to say that, because there are some extensions given by government also, so it's a wait and watch situation is there. Correct. That's correct. Okay, okay. So second question is, I mean in qualitative terms, how would you rate the demand actually at this point in time? Has it, like, been changing a lot? Another in open footwear also, that the rural is picking up and, people are now going back to normal. So how do you see the journey in that point of time, and do you see that further, a good amount of pickup happening there? So in last year, you know, inflation was high, and we witnessed a lot of down trading by consumers. And it, because of that, they were delaying purchases of sports shoes, which is, you know, in discretionary nature. So going forward, we are expecting good monsoon and the demand should definitely uptake. Okay, okay. And then, you believe, while, as you rightly mentioned, there were some markets at loss, but we gained by passing on the raw material price increase. Substantial room for further gaining, share left, mean? You know, this year we have taken a lot of sales transformation initiatives. That will help the company to grow at a better rate than competition, I think. Understood. Understood, understood. Okay, sir, thank you so much. I will join back the question queue for any further questions. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jasmine from VT Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. I wanted to understand your trend on the realizations. I see that quarter-on-quarter, there has been a slight increase on the realization, but the volumes have also grown consistently with that. So going ahead, are we looking at more the... And with rural picking up also, do we see any realization cut in open footwear and in closed footwear, if you could give separate trends for those, please? Oh, realization is not going to come down. It is only to, it may improve, because whatever rates we are having, they are very competitive, and there is no room for reduction of any prices so that it goes down. It will only improve. So both open- Right. and closed footwear? Yeah, yeah. My last question is on the international side. I wanted to understand how much the exports are contributing and how the different countries are doing where we are exporting. Yeah. On the trade side- Hi. We are around 4.5% of future company turnover in exports. We are getting traction from all the continents like Africa, then Asia, then Gulf, then Central America and Oceania. So all markets are responding well. So wherever we are, or all these countries, we are selling in our own brand, and we're getting good traction. And we're doing all the marketing activities also in these markets, in these priority markets. And we are bullish for future as well. Great. Just one clarification. I wanted to understand how much is the margin difference when we are exporting and with domestic, if it could just be a range, if you could provide? It is almost similar, because we get incentive also through government, so it is almost similar when you compare with the company level margins. Thank you so much. All the best. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shantanu Malik Choudhary from Credent Infotech. Please go ahead. Okay. Yeah. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. Hello? Hello. Yes, ma'am, you are audible. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello. So my first question is on our take on premiumization. So like, what are we looking into, like how to grow our premium product and how much quantum of revenue we are generating from the same? And going forward, what should be the percentage from the same? This is my first question. So premiumization is a journey, you know, so every year we are trying to increase our ASP. Last year, because of the demand, the volume was, we grow, the volume we grew much more than the volume was more than the value. So this year also, we are expecting in our, in our NPD, we'll launch more of the premium articles. So and try to increase our ASP higher. Yeah. Yeah. So despite that, the realization trend is going to be, like, in the range of INR 145-INR 150, or there will be an increase in the same? Definitely, there will be an increase because we last to last year, we were at INR 161, which came down to INR 148. So we'll definitely try to go above what we did last year. Okay. And sir, just wanted to understand, how much quantum of revenue comes from this premium portfolio? In percentages. So if you talk like our... We have a premium brand called Sparx, you know, which is contributing one third of our total sales. Okay. So, if you talk about premium, definitely we have added more brands like Bahamas and Flite Urban Basics. So our journey is on, you know, we have to improve in premium range. This will continue to remain one third this year, or we are looking some increase in that? There will be increase. Definitely, there will be an increase. Okay. Second one is on e-commerce. Like, how we are looking to leverage on the e-commerce segment and, like, what is our take on that? See, last year you have seen there were a lot of discounting happening on e-commerce, so we have taken some corrective action and now we are focusing more on that business as seller, to control the prices. Yeah. Okay. Okay, and so any percentage figures that how much e-commerce forms as a part of the total channel? We do roughly around 9%-10% in e-commerce. Okay. Of our total sales, yeah. Pardon, sir? Of our total sales, 9%-10% of total sales. Yeah. Okay. The last one is like, will our sales in terms of open footwear and closed footwear continue to remain 75%, or like it's gonna see some changes? No, right now it is 80% is open and 20 is closed. So we are expecting that it is 75-25, it will become. Got it. it. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mr. Rajiv Bharti from DAM Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, sir. So, this is regarding the CapEx line item. So you have done INR 250 crores this time. You mentioned that INR 127 crores was for this land, and typically you do INR 25 crores-INR 30 crores on the molds bit. Can you explain the remaining part of it? It's last time it's plant and machinery also, and we are adding buildings also. So last year we added one manufacturing plant too for backend sport in the PU category. And machines also we buy in the range of INR 30 crore-INR 40 crore. It's a routine expansion, which is always required, so 25-30 the mold. So that is the breakup. Sure. Looks like... I mean, is it right that the stock utilization currently is close to touching 75%? No, that is not the case. It's around 55-60. Overall company at 65, so that's the overall number. Are there immediate plans of expanding this Sparx bit in the next fiscal or so, in terms of- Already we have capacity. Here we have capacity. That's not required immediately, any expansion on the capacity. Yeah. And this online part that you mentioned, that 9% is coming from online. On the Sparx bit, this was close to 25%. Have we seen any improvement or directional improvement there after March? You're talking about this April or last full year, this? Yeah, for the, for... So, I was under the impression that the B2B guys have been slightly slow in ordering or placing orders, and that's why. And we were slightly heavily indexed on the Sparx side, on the online bit, right? I think one-fourth of on, Sparx is online. Have you seen some improvement on this front, in, let's say, second half? Second half of last year you're talking about, right? 24th. 24th, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So last year there were a lot of issues coming from some of the sites, you know, they were undercutting because of, you know, they have that Big Billion Day and all, whatever, or. So we have corrected that, and we have taken control on our own, and now we are focusing on brand as seller. Okay. So, we are just maintaining the volume at the e-commerce, if you talk about that. Sure. All right. Mm-hmm. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Resham Mehta from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. This is Resham. The first question is that, you know, while our revenue for this financial year has grown by 5%- ... But if you look at the employee costs and other operating costs, they have grown almost by 13% and 16% respectively. So, anything exceptional here? No, there is no exception because revenue has not grown as expenses has grown. So in case of employee, definitely there is an increment and adding of some people also. So because revenue has grown by hardly 5%, so that's why percentage has increased. But in absolute term, there is a normal inflation cost has increased. All right. Can you also break up your revenue into, you know, how much of it comes from metros, tier one to rural? We have distributors are district-wise, so we do not capture exactly what is the rural. So major distributors are 5 lakh plus towns, you know. So we are not able to capture exact what is the rural sales, because rural is villages. We are not able to capture right now that. Yeah, yeah. Got it. All right. That's it from my side. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press Star and One to ask questions. A reminder to all participants, you may press Star and One to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Prerna Jhunjhunwala from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity again. I just wanted to understand your A&P expenditure for the year, and are you planning to increase, decrease, maintain the same for next year? If you talk about A&P, it is roughly around 4% for treatment. We do around 4%-4.5%, and the rest is the schemes and both put together comes to 9%, and we're trying to maintain that same number. So when you're looking at growing at a higher rate next year, what initiatives will help you to grow? Just wanted to understand that at a higher rate, when the demand continues to remain a little subdued as per your commentary earlier. Yeah, so there are not one, there are multiple actions we are going to take. You know, this is one, our treatment is one. Then, we are improving on our reach to the retailers. So we have implemented the app, which was I was talking earlier. So we have enrolled 50,000 outlets, and our focus is how we can make it to one lakh outlet within this year. You know, so a lot of activities are happening at BTL level, at sale, at ground level. So definitely, our treatment, if we see the market going up, that will also increase. And, we are focusing on e-commerce, adding more outlets on EBOs. So there are a lot of things. So EBOs, how many you are going to increase this year? We want to understand. So 50-60. We currently have more than 400. We're going to add 50-60 more outlets. 50-60 more outlets. Okay. And any market competition-related activity that you see, like increased discounts by competitors, et cetera. So how are you reacting to the same? So definitely, see, lot of activities. Again, I'm saying that we are trying to go in the unrepresented areas. We are adding more number of distributor, adding more number of outlets. So the reach, we are trying to increase that, and we are controlling the outstanding, and we are keeping an eye on the, you know, market and taking steps accordingly. So there's a monthly program what we do, and we try to understand what is happening in the market and take corrective actions. Okay, okay. Sir, has the competitive intensity increased in open footwear as well, or only closed footwear as per your... Majorly in closed footwear. Okay, understood. And so, in closed footwear, what is your capacity utilization? I missed that part. It is 55% in closed footwear. 5%. And our total capacity is 150,000 pairs, if I'm correct? Yes, yes, you are right. It's 10.5 lakh pair per day. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. All the best. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vikas Jain from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you for a special question to Equirus- We're still not able to hear you. Okay. So, is it better now? Is it better now? Yes, yes, it's better now. Sir, in the presentation you gave the brand-wise volume mix for FY 2024. Could you help me with the numbers? I think we lost you. Sir, brand-wise, volume mix, for FY 23, if you could give. No, brand-wise also, last year also, almost it was same, sharing, similar. You're talking volume? Volume. Yes, volume. You said it was different, right? You said value, it was same, but volume was different, right? Yeah, volume was definitely different. So let me get some data, just we can see if I can get it. Yeah. ... Just, just I think I have to provide value we can provide, and that is easily. Volume I mean, anything else except this one? Nothing, sir. That was the only question. Value-wise, we are same, but, volume, you know, it will increase in open footwear. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mr. Onkar Ghungade from Shree Investments. Please go ahead. So my question is, have the management set any internal targets for the next three to four years for themselves in terms of revenue, profitability, cash flow, ROE, ROC, et cetera, to grow the business? I just wanted to know the management's vision in the business in terms of- No, next year we have told we will be having double-digit growth. 3 to 4 years. We aim to grow this at double-digit growth for next 2-3 years. What about the other parameters, sir? Profitability, ROE, ROC. Profitability. The other parameter, you know, ultimately we have to avoid the competition, raw material prices, and keep our prices ultimately competitive. So accordingly, I don't see any fear that we will face any challenge in with EBITDA or profitability. Why this specific question is that, the, let's say, 4, 5, 6 years back, this was a different kind of Relaxo, we used to see. But now that thing is no more in the company. If you look at the ROEs were, it, best, industry best level, the revenues growth were also seem very good. But, I guess last 3, 4 years, that has not been the case. Hence, this question. No, because in the past, there was a lot of volatility in the raw material prices. That affected us. Since we have to import the raw materials, and we have to maintain a long supply chain, but now things are stable. That is why we are telling you things will be better. Raw material volatility will affect each and every player in the industry, right? Why won't it affect only Relaxo, right? Because, you know, we are one of the largest importer of raw material. We can't depend upon local availability of material. Other local, they have small consumption, and they buy from local market. But we have to maintain a long supply chain from all imports. It's correct, but the raw material volatility would have been there 5, 6 years back as well, right? Still, your growth was quite good. I just wanted to know what is the exact reason for this. This raw material volatility what you're talking about, it has been too much if you talk about previous year. Because, if you talk about EVA, from INR 120 per kg, it went to INR 300. And within short span, it came down to INR 150, INR 120 again. So that kind of volatility we never seen in past. Okay. So this is, like, related to particular commodity you are talking about? Volatility in the particular commodity. It was ethylene-vinyl acetate polymer, it was low-density polyethylene also, PVC also. All polymers, they became volatile. Because we have to keep, I mean, good inventory of all these things, and that was the reason that. Otherwise, generally, we are beneficial in the rising market. We always have good inventory. This is the first time where it rose to INR 1,300 and then came down to INR 150. So that affected us. Okay, can you confidently say that, for the next couple of years, your profitability will be higher than the revenue growth, at least? No, you know, nobody can predict what kind of raw material we will get, what kind of external uncontrolled circumstances we'll be facing. Only thing is we have to see, we have to keep ourselves competitive, and based on the raw material cost, we have to keep our pricing. Okay. In terms of growing the business, what kind of model you are targeting? Like EBO or like company, like what kind of models you are targeting? The online business, online model, or like what exactly you are targeting? No, we are focusing on all the channels. Not that we are neglecting any channel. We have to see our EBO should grow, our e-commerce business should grow, general trade should grow, export should grow. We're focusing on all these channels, not any channel at the cost of another channel. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Sushil, sir, for closing comments. So over to you, sir. Thank you all for joining the call. This is all from our side. Looking forward to joining you again. Thank you very much.