Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Rossari Biotech Limited earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Aesha Shah from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Rossari Biotech Limited Q4 and FY23 earnings conference call. We have with us Mr. Edward Menezes, Promoter and Executive Chairman, Mr. Sunil Chari, Promoter and Managing Director, Mr. Ketan Sablok, Group Chief Financial Officer, and Ms. Manasi Nisal, Chief Financial Officer. We will begin the call with the opening remarks from the management, following which we'll have the forum open for question and answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect have been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier. I would now like to invite Mr. Edward Menezes to make his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on our Q4 and FY23 earnings call to discuss the operating and financial performance for the quarter. I hope you all had the opportunity to go through our results presentation, which provides details of our operational and financial performance. We are pleased to report a healthy finish to the year, with our standalone revenues increasing by 11.3% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. While we faced several challenges during the year, we believe we have successfully addressed them and are now better positioned to deliver consistent growth going forward. Throughout the past year, we faced significant volatility in the price of raw materials, which resulted in some business disruptions. By focusing on our inherent strengths, we were able to onboard several new customers, which have helped us grow our revenues on a sequential basis. Despite the challenges presented by market fluctuations, we have continued to prioritize our mission of offering high-quality, sustainable products to our customers while remaining agile in response to changing market conditions. Since our inception, we have remained dedicated to the advancement of sustainable and environmentally friendly chemicals. This sustainability focus is an integral part of our strategy, we are continuously seizing a range of eco-friendly products with several customers in our base industries such as HPPC, textiles, and AHN, as well as in emerging sectors for such as paints, paper, water treatment, agrochemicals and others. With the growing global demand for sustainable solutions, we are optimistic about commercializing our investments in this space going forward. Overall, our strong financial position, strengthened product portfolio, adequate capacity, and other inherent strengths provide a solid foundation for us to deliver healthy financial and operational performance in the coming years. We remain committed to delivering long-term value to all our stakeholders while maintaining our market position as a top provider of intelligent and sustainable solutions. With this, I would like to conclude my address. I now hand it over to Mr. Chari for his remarks. Thank you, Edward, sir. Good evening and a warm namaste to everyone. Financially, year 2023 has been a challenging year for our standalone business with pressure on volumes and margins. However, our team was able to navigate the situation and close the year on a steady note. To a large extent, we not only managed to recoup our volumes but also improve our margins. At a consolidated level, we remain extremely pleased with the outcome of our acquisitions. We have yielded exceptional synergies in various aspects including R&D, product development, market research and personnel. The chemical industry was facing a challenging period, with revenue and EBITDA for Unitop and Tristar since FY 2022 increased by 23% and 13% respectively, reaching INR 1,063.2 crores and INR 98.5 crores in FY 2023. These figures showcase the positive impact of our acquisitions and the successful integration of these companies into our business. Here, I'm happy to share that we have successfully acquired the final tranche of Tristar, making it a wholly owned subsidiary as of April 1, 2023. We are on track to fully acquire Unitop in the upcoming fiscal year. Looking ahead to the demand scenario in the upcoming fiscal year, we anticipate healthy growth in our HPPC segment due to new plant additions, a growing product portfolio and expanding market reach, increasing export opportunities. In the textile segment, we continue to face demand uncertainty in the near term due to global factors. We remain optimistic that we will see an uptick in demand in the second half of FY 2024. As for our AHN business, we are very bullish about the demand outlook and are confident in our ability to double its revenue over the next 2, 3 years. To sum up, we remain dedicated to providing long-term value to all our stakeholders while maintaining our market position as a leading provider of intelligent and sustainable solutions. We are confident in our ability to capitalize on emerging growth opportunities in the market as we continue to innovate and evolve. On that note, I would now request Ketan to share his thoughts with us. Thank you, Chari, sir. Good evening, everyone. We closed the year on a positive note with a consistent performance in quarter four. YoY for Q4, even though the revenues were down 7%. We were able to show improvement in gross margins and maintained our GP margins at 30%. The EBITDA grew by 4%, maintaining a margin of around 13.4%. For FY 2023, we have been able to consistently improve our performance and margins. We ended the year with gross margins of 29% compared to 25% last year, and EBITDAs of 13.5%, which is 12.4% last year. Both Unitop and Tristar ended the year on a strong note, registering a top-line growth of over 20% YoY with good margins. We've been able to synergize the business between the group companies very well, be it in operations, sales, R&D, and the new business development. The impact of these synergies will further be visible in the years to come. As mentioned by Chari, sir we have completed the acquisition of the additional 16% stake in Tristar, making it a 100% fully owned company as of 12th April 2023. We incurred a net adjusted outflow of about INR 17 crores for the final tranche, and it was funded through our internal accrual. Rossari's operational and balancing status remains strong and robust. As of March 2023, our net cash on a consolidated basis stayed at INR 77 crores. With the normalization of both the overall macroeconomic landscape and the RM situation, we are confident in our ability to consistently deliver healthy performance across all our business verticals in the coming years. Overall, we remain confident in our ability to deliver long-term value to our stakeholders through our focus on profit-profitability, innovation and growth. On that note, I would request Manasi to take you through the financials for the quarter, post which we'd be happy to take questions from your side. Thank you, Ketan sir. Good evening, everyone. Let me provide you with a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter and full year ended 31st March 2023. In terms of overall performance, the company's revenue for the quarter amounted to INR 406.5 crore as against INR 389.3 crore in Q3 FY23. On a standalone basis, the company's revenue from operations for Q4 FY23 was INR 263.6 crore as compared to INR 236.9 crore in Q3 FY23. Among the company's business segments, HPPC generated revenues of INR 1,157 crore, which accounted for 70% of total company's revenue. Following HPPC, the TSC business contributed INR 373.2 crore, accounting for 23% of the total company's revenue. AHN also contributed INR 125.7 crore, making up 7% of the company's total revenue on a consolidated basis. On a standalone basis, EBITDA stood at INR 35.8 crore as against INR 31.9 crore in Q3 FY 2023. Tag during the quarter stood at INR 23.1 crore as against INR 17.5 crore in Q3 FY 2023. On a consolidated basis, EBITDA stood at INR 54.6 crore as against INR 54.2 crore in Q3 FY 2023. Tag during the quarter stood at INR 29 crore as against INR 25.7 crore in Q3 FY 2023. On a full year basis, our consolidated revenue from operations in FY 2023 stood at INR 1,655.9 crore, up by 11.7% on YoY basis. Revenue from HPPC stood at INR 476.3 crore, contributing to 49% of revenue, followed by TSC business at INR 373.2 crore, contributing to 38%, and AHN at INR 125.7 crore, contributing 13% of total revenue. On a profitability front, EBITDA stood at INR 122.7 crore as against INR 122.8 crore in FY 2022. EBITDA margin stood at 12.6%. Depreciation increased to INR 62.9 crore owing to amortization of fair valuation on account of consolidation of subsidiaries. Interest cost during the quarter, during the year stood at INR 22.3 crore. Tag during the year stood at INR 107.3 crore as against INR 97.7 crore in FY 2022. From a balance sheet perspective, cash and cash equivalents during the fiscal stood at INR 69.8 crore. Additionally, the net cash flow from operating activities for the year was healthy, INR 152.54 crore. On that note, I come to the end of my opening remarks and would request the moderator to open the forum for any questions that you may have. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may enter star and one on their touchtone telephone. If your questions have been answered and you wish to withdraw yourself from the queue, you may enter star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have the first question from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my question. First from the Unitop and the Tristar, one clarification and a question. For this quarter, it looks like the subsidiaries, which is Unitop and Tristar, had a 20% YoY decline in the sales. Can you help us understand what is leading to such a sharp decline? This is despite the anticipation that the synergy benefit will drive the revenue growth faster. What is the thing which is hurting the growth in the Unitop and the Tristar particular business, number one? Number two, for FY 20, I think Ketan sir did mention that, he like to like or I don't know, Unitop and Tristar have a 20% revenue growth for the year. Can you give us the Unitop number for FY 23 similarly as you disclosed for the Tristar as well? That will be helpful. This 20% growth is on a like-to-like basis or how it is? These are the first two questions. Namaste, Sanjesh Jain. This is Sunil Chari here. Tristar, as we have told in the last earnings call also, the major export was in Europe, and Europe has been affected after the Ukraine war. That is why we had, you know, pressured on sales and pressured on margins. One thing also we need to see is there are certain new customers developed by, you know, Rossari because of synergy benefits, which you also mentioned in the presentation and on earlier earnings calls. When we do sales from Tristar or Unitop to Rossari, in the console it gets neutralized and there is no sales feeling in the Tristar. Now our request would be to see the company on a consolidated basis rather than standalone Tristar and Unitop basis. Unitop also traditionally the first half is more stronger than the second half, which we always told in all our calls. We expect the current in the current quarter and the next quarter to be better than the earlier quarters. No, no. When I'm looking at standalone minus console, I'm looking at third party sales. Any which case in the base also the interparty relationship, interparty transactions get negative. On a like-to-like third party basis it has declined by 20%, and I don't think this will have entirely come from Tristar. Because Tristar is only INR 200 crores of revenue per annum. How has been the Unitop performance in that sense, can you explain that? I hear your concern. Unitop now we are sourcing ethoxylate totally from outside. We are sourcing it from other companies. Now this sourcing has come from Unitop. Again, because if you buy from outside, then you know there is no issue. If you buy from Unitop or Tristar in the consolidated, that gets knocked off. Hence you see, you know, the lower sales because the material has come to. Because this is we were buying from outside and it has come into Rossari, it is not seen as sales for Rossari because it is coming from Unitop. No, no, I understand that, Charit. I'm telling you I'm talking about third party sales. That looks like decline and we thought that there is enough headroom within the capacity to meet the demand for the Rossari in that case. Is it my right understanding that you are telling that we compromise or we sold less to third party to service more to Rossari parent, is that the right understanding? No. any new customer which is generated because of synergy and it is a customer of Rossari, the sales passing through Rossari, wherever it is manufactured, whether it's manufactured at Tristar or whether manufactured at Unitop. Okay. Okay. That means you're telling me the Rossari lot of sales in the standalone what we booker is also because of Unitop and Tristar. It's not purely on a like-to-like basis to compare that standalone is delivering that growth. Is that a fair understanding? No, no. Because what we were doing is we source the ethoxylate and we were buying it from outside and selling it to our customers. Now we're buying it from Unitop. It's not that standalone is not growing. Standalone is growing, standalone has grown, but the purchase has happened from Unitop and that is knocked off in the console. No, no, I understand that, Charit, sir. What you are telling you, I understand. I'm telling it would have been true even for the base year also, right? For the last year before FY 22. I do not understand the question. If you are buying, your product from, outside, we started buying from Unitop. No, it's fine. That is fine. It doesn't impact the mathematics of it. No, no. For example, if you see, you know, our textile business is bigger. The standalone you know business is still strong in FPT and textile. The raw material has come from Unitop and Tristar. Let me take this offline. I think I'll take this offline. Okay. Okay. The second question is, it continues. What is the revenue EBITDA for the Unitop for FY 23? FY 23, Sanjesh, Unitop's revenue is, INR 554 crores. Okay. EBITDA is about INR 81 crores. INR 81 crore. Ketan, sir, you in your opening remarks talked about 20% YoY growth in the acquisition company. Can you help us understand whether you're talking on a like-to-like basis or there is lesser revenue being recognized because we bought it in the mid of the year last year, right? What I said was on a like-to-like basis. In the accounts it will be for seven months, but just for giving you a flavor of the growth that has come in, it is on a like-to-like basis. Unitop's revenue, as I said, INR 554 crores. In the current year it was about INR 464 crore in last full year. Okay. Okay. Okay. Unitop. Fair enough. Second on the I know there has been too much of a price volatility in FY23 for us to appreciate the performance. Can you help us understand what was the volume growth in FY23 to understand how have we done for FY23? That's number 1. Number 2 is on the gross profit. I think sequentially there is a sharp drop in the raw material prices. Even mathematically, the margin should have gone up if the gross profit per kg was protected. What we are seeing is a sequential decline in the margin. Was there any inventory losses because of a very steep fall or why there is a decline versus a growth in the margin? Sanjesh sir, as we explained, you know, in the last call, our raw material prices have fallen if you compare 2021, 2022 to 2022, 2023. Similarly, if raw material prices have fallen, the finished goods pricing would have fallen. Now, on a like-to-like basis, Unitop 20% we have grown in spite of falling of raw material prices. You can see the growth in Unitop which you know, Unitop has grown and there would be at least 10%-15% fall in raw material prices. 2021, 2022. No, quarterly exit basis decline, Q4 to Q4 decline, or this 20% growth is for the full year. My question was more on the margin and the FY 23 volumes. Right. Right. The volumes we are not able to work out because product which changes from quarter to quarter, product to product, division to division. Volumes we are never able to, you know, measure in Rossari. Measuring volumes quarter to quarter or even year on year, quarter to quarter is not very easy for us. Fair enough. On the margin, what is why the margins have declined despite a fall in the raw material prices? I think mathematically the margins and then you got just benefit of raw material pricing falling in, coming into your margins. Why there is a decline in the margins at the gross profit level on the sequential basis? Sanjesh, here, let me try to explain this. See, a few quarters back, you know, we had started doing a lot of cross-selling and synergizing of the sales operations across the group. In the last quarter and the quarter before that, we had started doing routing lot of sales of Tristar and Unitop through the Rossari network of customer and distributors. That, as you have said, we want to move these customers onto the Rossari brand and start building that brand from this year itself, so that most, you know, whenever we bring all the companies under one umbrella, we are able to, you know, use the Rossari brand and the customers know about that. That is what is happening now quarter-on-quarter. As most of these sales are getting built now through Rossari, part of the margins are getting booked at Rossari, and part of the margins are getting booked at the subsidiary level because the transfer is happening at a transfer pricing arm's length basis. The request would be that the ideal way to now start looking at the numbers is on a consolidated level because certain part of the margins will remain in RBL and certain part of the margins will remain in the subsidiary. We should look at the consolidated numbers to understand the entire margin profile of all the companies. The other reason, after that's not the gross margins, but quarter-on-quarter on a consolidated level, if you see, the EBITDA have fallen slightly because in this quarter we, since we bought out, of course the sale was bought out post in April. We had done the full and final settlement of some of the senior directors in Tristar, and that one time substantial impact is also factored into the other expenses which have also impacted the EBITDA for this quarter, not showing because it remains stagnant at about INR 54-55 crores. How much was that? I think about INR 2.5-3 crores we had given to a couple of the directors as their full and final settlement. Which is not part of the payment, which is part of the OpEx. Yes. Got it. Got it. Ketan Sir, on the same note, even sequentially on a consolidated basis, the gross profit margin has come off by 40 basis points, not as high as it is in the standalone, but here also the margins have come off by 40 basis points. I think there was a scope for a margin expansion just because of the arithmetic. Yes, sir. Sanjesh, sir, in Tristar, we have been hit significantly on the export side. To that extent, the export margins in Tristar has been quite strong. Okay. With the Europe exports coming down significantly, that's kind of impacting the overall gross margins. Once the exports in Tristar picks up, I think we should see some of these margin improvements coming through. Got it. Got it. Two last questions from my side. One on the textile side is what is behind because I can see sequentially we have grown by 10%. How should we see textile? Because we still sound slightly cautious on the textile side. Those numbers have sequentially been very good. Second on the Animal Health and Nutrition, it looks like suddenly firing. What is driving such a strong growth in AHN business? The textile segment Sanjesh is still facing some headwinds. Okay. We had a better quarter this year, we are still being cautious because we are seeing the market is still quite sluggish. We were able to add some new products during this quarter, which helped us, you know, do a little better than Q3. What we understand from the customers in the market, that's what we would like to currently go with, is that the demand should start picking up from the second half of this year. That's what the understanding is as of now. Okay. Textile has been acting a little creepy over the last one year. Every time we think that it'll be bursting over it really doesn't happen that. Currently this is what we understand. On the AHN front, I think we've ended the year on a strong note, almost hitting 126% growth. We expect this business now to maintain its growth for 2023. We've added some new customers. We've added new products. We've gone into the vitamins and the minerals space quite aggressively now. We're also setting up a small CapEx for the vitamin premix setup at Dahej. That, that's still a few months away. We anticipate that once that comes through then, you know, from the latter half of Q2 or Q3, we should see some good sales in the second half of this year with this CapEx coming through. We are quite bullish on the AHN front. Got it. Got it. Thanks for answering all the question and best wishes for the coming quarter. Sanjesh Jain. Yes, sir. Year-on-year Tristar even after phenol prices and phenoxyethanol prices coming down on a year-on-year basis, we have grown 27% from INR 164 crores like on like basis to INR 209 crores. you know, No, I was talking more from the. In spite of Europe going down, we've been able to get some good customers who are new customers with Rossari has brought in. Because part of the business or profit would have gone into Rossari because sales are Rossari, hence super margin come. Even after falling phenol prices, we've done well at Tristar. Sunil sir, I completely appreciate the yearly performance. It looks very strong. I'm telling exit looks on a weaker footing because at least the number talks about a decline for the Q4. I completely take your point for the full year. We have done fantastic. I'm not debating that. I'm not debating on that part of the point. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Nitin Tiwari from Yes Securities. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I hope I'm audible. Sir, my question is related to the HPPC segment. You've highlighted that textiles you are still facing headwinds and you've given a positive commentary on AHN. How is the HPPC segment looking for FY 2024? Because in the past 4 quarters at least we have seen a declining trend of revenue. My first query was that. Secondly, why is that basically that on a standalone basis the numbers look sort of steady for the segment. When consolidated with the subsidiary, there's a decline that we see consistently across the past 4 quarters. Related to that, you had earlier alluded to basically a large customer now not being part of our portfolio. Have we completely recovered that loss of revenue or we are still in the process? Sir, I will quickly take it. HPPC, as we have said that we lost one large customer who weighed on our numbers last quarter or at least part of last quarter. Current quarter we have no sales from that customer. That's one of the reasons why, you know, we have not seen the growth in HPPC as we expect. However, I think we've been able to maintain our sales number in spite of the absence of a large account. Going forward, I think, to cover up this, we've added a large number of customers in the detergent industry. Large number of smaller customers are getting now added in that space. We are working in some of the new segments of paints and paper. One of the large agencies that we started now working with is HUL, and lot of the supplier ingredients for the de-detergents have started. We already started working with them, 2 of their plants. I think over the year we will add a few more plants going forward. Of course, with the agro, you know, one of the agro piece also growing. I think within the couple of quarters we should be able to cover up this entire piece of loss that we have incurred. To add here to Ketan sir, I'm Charit here. Our HPPC now on a consolidated basis, 70% of sales. textile is 23% and AHN is 8%. as we said, we have to look at it from a consolidated basis. Two years back we were 50% in HPPC as a percentage. Now we are at 20% and we expect it to still become better. Great. Just let you know, thanks for that answer actually, for that guidance. Just like wanted to have this understanding around HPPC segment in terms of the segmentation if we look at. Although you said that like we should be looking at it from a consolidated perspective, but nonetheless, why is that looking at on a standalone basis, the segment looks steady, but when we consolidate with the subsidiary accounts then there is a decline that we see, sharper decline rather that we see, like, you know, on a sequential basis, as well as on a YoY basis. Just wanted to understand that how is the same business segment getting different traction in standalone entity and the subsidiary? Correct my understanding if it's wrong. No, no, you are right. If you consolidated the HPPC as quarter on quarter, you've seen a slight decline. As we have said that mainly because of Q4, you know, doing a lower exports, for Tristar. That is what has impacted the HPPC segment quarter on quarter. Okay. The, the large customers that we lost was with the standalone entity, right? We have grown despite like, you know, that large customer not being there in the fourth quarter and we have... Does that, I mean, imply that we have practically made up for all the lost revenues through the accounts that you, let you know, reallocated to a number of small, detergent manufacturers like HUL? Yes. This quarter we have actually in Q3 also, that customer was there only for about I think a month or month and half. We only had a few shipments. Yeah. If you see our last year number, then you will get a probably a better idea. Q4 of last year had a significantly larger chunk of that sales. Okay. Got it. No worries. Sir I'll get back in touch. Yes. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Aditya Chheda from InCred Asset Management. Please go ahead. Hi, Aditya here from InCred. Couple of questions. One, on the interest cost, the cash cost has been INR 6 crore and the reported is INR 22 crore. What would that be for 2024? Going ahead, how much of that is to be accounted for? Can you come again? We didn't quite get your question. Something on interest cost you asked. Yeah. The interest cost which we reported for this year has been INR 22 crores. A part of that is an accounting entry for consolidating the M&A completed. What would that be for the subsequent years, for 2024? 2024 would be, as of now it will come down because, currently we have about INR 74 crores of loan in our books of INR 20 crores of working capital. Got it. It will be sequentially it will come down. We've given that bifurcation in. That's why we've given that bifurcation in our presentation of what is the normal interest cost and what we interest cost because of these professional considerations. For next year, I think as of now we should be same as what is there in the slide 24. It will be slightly lower than that, what it is in the current year. I don't have the exact number now. Got it. Next, could you share the capacity utilization across the company and if for Tristar and Unitop you have separately? On an overall company level, I think we are at utilization of about 50%-55% across most of our plants. Got it. If I look forward for FY 2024, you mentioned in your opening remarks, most of it is this is on the growth drivers across segments. Could you allude to what should be the growth drivers going ahead for all the three different segments? If there are any product-specific growth drivers or customer-specific growth drivers in terms of wallet share, which you are sort of looking forward to, and if you can share on what are the key growth drivers you're looking for FY 2024? Hi, Amit here. We are in various verticals. We have elaborate plans for the next couple of years. One of the important verticals that we want to grow, and we have been mentioning that we want to double this in the next 2 to 3 years is the Animal Health and Nutrition segment. Like, Ketan sir has mentioned in the opening remarks that a small CapEx is being done here, and we are putting in place a premix plant. This premix plant will help us improve our quality and also make the product line a continuous product line for vitamins, for mineral mixtures, as well as for enzymes. Then in the Animal Health and Nutrition, we've already developed a range of products for the aqua business, and the business development is the next step. The business development in this vertical has already started. And we have reduced glycerides and esters for gut health and to reduce antibiotics, which will be another big blockbuster for us. And we've also installed a granulation facility at the plant. This is primarily done to increase our efficiency of granulation as well as a product differentiation. In the HPPC segment, in addition to the anti-redeposition product for powder, we've developed an excellent product, anti-redeposition product for liquid detergent, because the normal ARD, as we call the anti-redeposition product, they are not compatible with liquid detergent. Here we've developed a product and we've got good traction for these products. In the water treatment chemicals in HPPC, we focused on the textile industry, in the CEP piece of the textile industry. These have yielded very good results for us. We've also entered the textile technical textile coating industry. Business development is in full swing, and it has given us very good traction. In the coating chemicals that we do in HPPC for paints, paper, ceramic, as well as pharma tablet coating, we have introduced a few new products, which are silane-modified, which have better scrub and wet property. We've seen good enthusiasm from the paint industry for this product. In the pharma tablet coating, we have received FDA approval for this product. Production is likely to start in the coming quarter. If you look at the textile, synergistically, we have started manufacturing the silicone oil as well as the block silicones in-house. This has increased flexibility for our users and also made us more competitive here. In the yarn lubricant silicon-yarn lubricant segment, for silicones, we've developed a product for yarn lubricant, which is a silicone wax and a small CapEx for formulator or homogenizing equipment is in place. In film finishes, also very steady progress. We started this about a year ago, and we have made good progress in the POY, FDY, polypropylene and polyamide space. A new product line has been introduced in the additives for regenerated cellulose, which is Lyocell. We started this business development and acquired a few companies there. Similarly, in the agro space, focuses on development of emulsifiers for new trends where a combination of technical is used. One very exciting business that we have entered is the silicone superwetters, and we have also started doing some CapEx here to scale up. There are many other initiatives that we have taken, but I've given you a small gist of what we are doing and how the business development is going. Fair. Adding to another question which I had. We mentioned about choosing better margin products. Now with customers such as HUL coming in where, you know, predominantly a premium player in terms of detergents versus someone like a Body which we used to cater, how are you looking at this market where do you think the premiumization has already played out or it would sort of continue to play out and that would help you to sort of deliver higher realization products going ahead? If you have any comments on that or any outlook on that? The ingredients that we manufacture, most of the raw materials and the technologies are own, and therefore, we definitely have a cost advantage over other manufacturers. We hope that we will make decent margins with the ingredients to the detergent industry. Earlier, actually our hands were tied and we could not go country-wise or even to be, you know, South, Southeast Asian countries. With the new, the new situation where now we are free to sell our ingredients to all ingredients all India as well as to the neighboring countries, you would have seen that we have been doing well even though we lost the large customer. In addition to that, the margins also would be more here because we've been able to launch a battery of products here, whereas in the previous regime we had only 1 product and we were restricted to that product. Got it. Last question from my end. For Rossari standalone, the asset turns were as high as 6, 7 times, or this is just on the reported gross block numbers and the subsidiary have a little lower asset turns. On a console basis, given the growth profile is very similar across all the three segments, is the 4 times a good asset turn number to work with on a console number going ahead with what gross block we have currently 4-5 times or what is the number you are looking at going ahead? I think, currently, for the next year, you can go with a number of 4 to 5 times. Our plan is that, you know, as the business ramps up, we do not plan to add much to the gross block in the next at least 2 to 3 years. If we are able to ramp up the business as planned, I think this asset turn number we should see a good improvement. Probably 2 years down the line we should see a good improvement on this. Got it. The reason I was asking is that we are already at INR 450 crore of gross block and at, say 4-4.5x we'd be at the INR 2,000 crore top line which we are envisaging. With the, what would be the CapEx for next two years as if you have any number, INR 40-50 crore is the number for 2024 and 2025? It should be, yes. Ideally it should be around that number you said. At least for next year we will be around that number. Got it. Got it. Thanks. That's it from my end. Thanks. Thank you. Before we move to the next question, we would like to remind participants to ask a question you may enter star and one. We have the next question from the line of S.M. Kumar, an investor. Please go ahead. Sir, my question regarding beta-mannan enzyme, monobactam, like that any kind of enzyme product can we expect next one year? For the enzyme product, actually we are working on a product which is a bioproduct basically which will be used as a surfactant. We are using and we are working on this kind of a product and we are excited that we'll be able to introduce this product in a few months time. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and 1. We have the next question from the line of Nitin Tiwari from Yes Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity again, sir. Sir, can you just, please repeat the revenue and the EBITDA number for Unitop and Tristar separately? Yeah. For Unitop this year was INR 554 crores. Right. Tristar was INR 209 crores. The EBITDA for Unitop was I think INR 81 crores, right? What was the same for Tristar? 81 and Tristar was 18. 18. 1 8. 1 8, 1 8. The same figures for last year, sir, if you would please. last full year Unitop was INR 464 crores. Okay. Tristar was, yeah, INR 164 crores. INR 164 crores. EBITDA numbers, sir, for both of them. Unitop was INR 69. Okay. Tristar was 17. 17. All right. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Participants, if you have a question, you may enter star and one. We have the next question from the line of Ashish Ukani from InvesQ Investment Advisors. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for this. Sir, to gauge what is happening based on the based on the commentary that we've heard from you throughout this call, there are different moving parts and different segments and even subsidies and your standalone. To sum up everything, how do we read into maybe the coming year, FY 2024? Should we... See we, there's a lot of volatility in the raw material costs and the pricing and stuff. Looking at only the top line in terms of numbers and EBITDA margins, it becomes difficult to make a picture of the company in terms of growth. We are stuck around that INR 100 crores of bottom line or INR 100-110 crores for quite some time now. What should we expect over the coming couple of years from you? Yeah. No, say, carrying around. What we did is, you know, we had loss of one big customer which we have replaced. The focus seems to be growth in HPPC. As you know, we are into four chemistries, with surfactant, acrylic, enzyme and silicones. The surfactant chemistry seems to be something which is picking up steam, you know, every passing day. Exports is something which is, you know, picking speed every passing year. If you see our exports last year was INR 264 crores, and this year was INR 380 crores. The HPPC anyways has gone from INR 966 crores to INR 1,166 crores. This year, you know, we would see HPPC increasing further, because finally we are at INR 323 crores and this year exports, you know, not very big growth. AHN should do very well this year. On a whole, what is that we are looking at is not top line. What is that we are not looking at is EBITDA%. What is we are looking at is EBITDA as absolute amount. Our internal target is 20%, you know, growth in EBITDA over the controlled EBITDA which was there. That is the focus area. Baaki% could be another, we are not focusing. Last year, you know, we had a lot of, you know, setbacks in terms of textile industry did not do well. You know, the Ukraine war created a lot of issues. We lost a big customer and generally the AD sizes and the raw material prices came down. But there is a still a frame going up and down, up and down, in the raw materials based on supply and demand of the raw materials. Consequently, the prices of raw material, our silicones are going up and down also. We learned a lesson from 2021-22 and 2022-23 that we will not do any forex positions. We will not do any long contracts with our customers. We hold to this position that we will not do this. We have been always prudent that we do not do very big, you know, positions in raw materials. If you see our inventory levels and, you know, working capital levels are, you know, very, very good and, you know, very disciplined, which have been there for the last 25 years. Similarly, forex we have never hedged, and we will never hedge also. In terms of, you know, operations, this year we want to merge our companies, you know, Tristar is already 100 percent owned subsidiary. Unitop Gurugram will be in August, and we'll start the process of mergers. Hopefully by 31st March 2024, we will be one consolidated entity instead of remaining as 2 subsidiaries. The growth from HPPC segment, in various industries, will continue to do well, agro, Home and Personal Care and Performance Chemicals. All these three segments we see, you know, a heavy demand, outlook, for the coming financial year. AHN has a smaller base and, it is now at INR 125 crores. We should see the highest growth as a percentage in AHN this year. Okay. Basically we are looking at 20% EBITDA growth. That's the bottom line. Given that there is no additional CapEx and depreciation, everything should be under control. You should be gunning for a 25% kind of bottom line growth this year. The 20%? Good. Okay. 20% is something which we have budgeted in, you know, in our own budgets. Okay, sir. All the best. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I would now like to hand the floor back to the management for closing comments. Please go ahead. Thank you. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our team or CDR India. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call. Good evening to all. Thank you, gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Rossari Biotech Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.