Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Viral Shah from IIFL Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Ziko. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the earnings conference call of Satin Creditcare Network Limited. From the company today, we have Mr. HP Singh, Chairman cum Managing Director, Satin Creditcare Network Limited, and the senior management team. We will have a brief overview on the year and the business from the management team, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. With that, I would like to hand over to Mr. HP Singh for his opening comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Viral. Good morning, everyone. We thank you for joining to discuss our company's fourth quarter and the financial year 2024 performance. I believe you have had the opportunity to go through our quarterly results and investor presentation. If you haven't gone through them yet, you can access them on our website or through the stock exchanges. The fiscal year FY 2024 stand out, stands out as a momentous chapter in our 33-year-long journey, where we've reshaped countless opportunities, redefined our trajectory, and met success in all financial and operational metrics. We witnessed growth in assets under management, AUM, recorded the highest yearly disbursement, observed robust customer addition, maintained our pristine asset quality, improved our net interest margin, reduced the OpEx ratio, and fortified our capital base, paving the way for a successful year for all our stakeholders. It's comforting to mention that we have surpassed the guided range of our standalone annual performance targets on most of the parameters, such as our AUM grew by 34% against the 25%+ guided range. NIM of 13.2% as against 12.1%-12.5% guidance. ROA stood at 4.8% as against the 3.5%-4% guided range. Cost-to-income ratio stands at 42.6% as against 45%-50% guidance. Capital adequacy ratio stood at 27.7%, surpassing the guided range of 22%-25%. Debt-to-equity ratio at 2.7x, as against 3.5x-4x guided range. The rest three are also well within guided range, which are our OpEx to average AUM ratio of 5.60% as against a 5.60%-5.75% guidance. Credit cost of 1.44% as against guided range of 1.25%-1.50%, and ROE that stood at 18.5% as against the 17.5%-19% guidance. Our Punjab portfolio performance was a little dampened due to the ongoing local challenges. However, by taking timely actions, we have been able to contain the issues. Our total on-book portfolio in Punjab stands at INR 369 crore as of March 2024. Overall, PAR one in Punjab stands at INR 35 crore and PAR ninety at INR 19 crore. Out of this, PAR 1 in the 10 affected branches stands at INR 23 crore, and PAR 90 is at INR 11 crore. Our collection efficiency in the state is 97% for FY 2024 and 92% for Q4 FY 2024. Currently, we have slowed down our disbursement in the affected areas and have deployed additional collection officers to engage with and motivate with the clients, and we are meeting success in that. Coming to our operational performance, we closed the financial year by recording 30% year-on-year growth in AUM, which stood at INR 11,850 crore on a consolidated basis. On a standalone basis, the GLP stood at INR 10,593 crore, up by 34%. Securing the INR 10,000 crore milestone in SC was a historic moment for us this year, underscoring our clients' trust and our team's resilience and fueling our momentum forward. We continue to witness robust growth in our borrower base. We added 6.3 lakh customers on a consolidated basis and 7.8 lakhs on a standalone basis, highlighting our expanding footprint, operating efficiencies, and growing demand for our services. We recorded our highest yearly disbursement, both on a consolidated and standalone basis. Consolidated disbursement stood at INR 10,549 crore. It grew by 30% year-on-year and standalone at INR 9,691 crore, up by 31%. We forayed into two new states, Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, in line with our strategy to expand our inclusive charter to more individuals from low-income groups. With this expansion, our presence is spread across 26 states and union territories. The branch infrastructure now stands at 1,393, with the opening up of 107 new branches spread across 421 districts. The robust underpinnings of our organization, which includes our solid fundamentals, ethical work practices, customer-centric business approach, and employee-focused operational framework, have ensured our continued social relevance. As a result, we have emerged as a preferred financial ally for numerous low-income households throughout rural India. This is also evident from the healthy number of first-cycle customers at 55%. During the year, reporting year, we maintained our trend of our healthy collection and asset quality. The on-book GNP of the company stood at INR 198 crore, which is 2.5% of the on-book portfolio. The company has sufficient on-book provision amounting to INR 154 crore as on March 2024, which is 2.1% of its on-book portfolio, exceeding the RBI-mandated provision requirement of INR 148 crore. Furthermore, the overall provision coverage ratio stood at 83% as of March 2024, marking a significant increase from 64% recorded in March 2023. The performance of the new portfolio originated from July 2021 onward, continues to perform better than the industry, which constitutes about 97% of the on-book MFI portfolio, with PAR 1 at 2.5% against industry PAR 1 at 5.9%, and PAR 90 at 1.5% against industry PAR 90 at 3.6%. This demonstrates the effectiveness of our underwriting processes. The collection efficiency remained consistent quarter-over-quarter for the reporting period and stood at 98.5% for the year on a standalone basis. The collection against write-off pool stood at INR 46 crore. We commend our dedicated field staff for their relentless efforts in ensuring successful loan recovery through persistent follow-ups and client engagement. This year, the MFI industry witnessed a remarkable surge in credit demand from the rural market, a trend vividly illustrated in the figures of the industry's loan portfolio. The rising internet penetration, improved income levels, and evolving aspiration and lifestyles in rural areas are fostering an environment conducive to sustained growth in credit demand. Furthermore, the economic forecast is optimistic, with predictions of an above normal monsoon in the coming time, which will in turn boost agriculture productivity and disposable incomes. All these factors bring in good news for MFIs like us, who are predominantly rural, in catering to those at the bottom of the pyramid, as we further enhance footprints into this expanding market. Coming to our financials now. The company's consolidated net interest income grew by 43% to reach INR 1,340 crore, largely driven by a robust loan growth portfolio in the reporting financial year. The pre-provisioning operating profit for FY 2024 stood at INR 732 crore, registering a growth of 80% on a consolidated basis. The net interest income and pre-provisioning operating profit on standalone basis are at INR 1,218 crore and INR 699 crore, respectively. Our profitability milestone touched a new mark, as we recorded a PAT of INR 436 crore, as against INR 5 crore in the previous fiscal year on a consolidated basis. On standalone basis, we recorded a PAT of INR 423 crore, up 60% year on year from 264, 264 crore in the previous fiscal year. Our OPEX to average AUM ratio witnessed significant improvement, dropping to 5.8% on a consolidated basis compared to the previous 6.3%. Similarly, on a standalone basis, the ratio decreased to 5.6% from the previous 6.3%. These decreases in the percentage demonstrates our steadfast dedication to optimizing operational efficiency and resource allocation throughout our operations. Likewise, our cost to income ratio improved to 45.4% as against the 56.5% on consolidated basis, and on standalone basis, stood at 42.6% as against 54.3% in the previous fiscal. On the borrowing front, this year we have locked 39% increase on year-on-year basis and raised INR 9,494 crore from various lenders on standalone basis. Additionally, the company added 20 new lenders. We draw good comfort from our diversified liability profile with continued access to funds from domestic and international lenders, improved credit rating, also a well-capitalized balance sheet to maintain sufficient liquidity and strong control on our borrowing cost. Delving into our robust capitalization endeavor, we have successfully completed 15 rounds of capital raising since 2008, culminating in a remarkable sum of INR 1,537 crore, out of which INR 595 crore was raised post-COVID-19, the last round being QIP of INR 250 crore done in December 2023. As on March 24, the company has ample liquidity of INR 1,100 crore and has a healthy CRAR of 27.7%. Sharing our perspective on the ongoing KYC issues in the industry, I would like to say that in light of increasing digitization, landscape is evolving rapidly. However, along with the myriad benefits, a lot also emerge significant challenges that demand vigilant attention, particularly in the realms of security. One such challenge is the rising occurrence of authenticity of KYC. At Satin, we take pride in upholding the highest standards in our internal processes in authentic customer onboarding. Rigorously adhering to stringent guidelines and protocols, we have been integral to safeguarding our customers' operation and maintaining transparency. With strong underwriting capability and bringing in cutting-edge and new age technologies to onboard our customers, such as iris-based verification, geotagging, e-signatures, et cetera, we have strived hard to rule out instances of fraud, non-compliance, and other potential issues. Through strategic investment in our robust IT infrastructure, we are not just safeguarding our business operations, we are paving the way for enduring growth and triumph in ever-evolving digital realm. Over the past two years, our relentless pursuit of digitization has yielded tangible results. For instance, we have witnessed a remarkable reduction in our branch manual registers from 20 to just 6, which has led to a more streamlined processes and enhanced efficiency. With a very strong uptime of 99.6%, which translates into a very strong tech advantage, this combination of technological advancement and operational excellence propels us forward, ready to thrive in today's dynamic business landscape. Like I said in the beginning, this year has proven to be a success for us and has, sorry, has demonstrated our resolution to excellence. We earned multiple laurels for our processes, compliance, innovation, and consistent for strong performance. To name a few, our company was awarded with the latest standard of ISO 27001:2022 for information security. We have received the highest rating and AA ESG rating and gold level certification on client protection principle. We were recognized as great place to work for the fifth consecutive year and top 50 great places to work 2 years in a row, amongst others. Going ahead with an extensive reach spanning Pan India, a distinctive operating model, a diversified product portfolio on secured and unsecured lending, a robust technology infrastructure, seasoned board and management personnel, a diversified liability profile, a resilient business model, and a strong balance sheet. We are poised to be at the forefront. Our aim is clear, to be the ultimate one-stop financial services provider, primarily in rural India, differentiated by our process and technology, and to emerge as a preferred financial ally for millions of underserved local income, low-income households. Now, let me run you through the financial operational highlights of our company. Starting with consolidated highlights. We have a customer base of 34.7 lakhs as on 31st March 2024, with presence across 1,393 branches and 421 districts of India. Our top four states contribute to 56% of total AUM in FY 2024, and the states are UP, Bihar, West Bengal, and Madhya Pradesh. The total revenue for the year stood at INR 2,241 crore, up by 44% year-on-year. Standalone highlights. The average monthly disbursement rate, run rate is, is about INR 808 crore. Our average ticket size of MFI lending for FY 2024 stood at 47,000. We have a well-diversified customer base of approximately now 34.4 lakh clients, with 76% rural exposure. 54% of our clients belong to first cycle as of March 2024. We have added 158 branches during the year. PAT for FY 2024 is at INR 423 crore, ROA at 4.8% and ROE at 18.5%. Net worth stood at INR 2,667 crore as on 31 March 2024. Total borrowing stood at INR 7,269 crore as on 31 March 2024. Debt-to-equity ratio stood at 2.7x. As on 31 March 2024, 96.4% of our districts have less than 1% of portfolio exposure. In our constant endeavor to enrich our customer life, we provide financing of various products, which includes loans for bicycles, solar products, home financing, consumer durables, and water and sanitation facilities. An update on subsidiaries. Through the collective efforts of our subsidiaries, we aim to extend the spectrum of financial services to our clients. By harnessing the strength of our microfinance outreach, we endeavor to extend affordable housing and retail MSME loans, specifically to clients who have completed more than two loan cycles with the company and have higher credit requirements. This approach aligns us with a broader strategy of customer lifecycle management. By servicing microfinance graduated clients, we are not only deepening our relationship with existing clients, but also capitalize on their evolving financial needs and capabilities. Satin Housing Finance Limited has now reached an AUM of INR 756 crore, which grew by 50% year-on-year, having presence across 4 states with 7,456 customers. SHFL has a 100% retail book. The quality of portfolio remains intact, with GNPA of 0.8% as of March 2024. The company has 26 active lenders, including NSPDF Finance, CRAR of 49.2% and gearing of 2.2x. Bad for FY 2022, FY 2024 stood at INR 9 crore. Credit rating of A- stable from ICRA. Satin Finserv Limited, the company's MSME lending arm, has reached an AUM of INR 501 crore. We are running down the business correspondent book and focusing on building MSME retail book going forward. CRAR of 48% and gearing of 1.4x. Bad for FY 2024 stood at INR 5 crore. Credit rating of A- stable from ICRA. In summary, as we progress on the path of expansion, we are poised to embrace greater profitability while upholding cost efficiency. With this, I would like to open the floor for questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Usha Toshan from Toshan Investments. Please go ahead. Hello? Sir, may I request you to use your handset, please? On behalf of Usha Toshan, I'm Prabhu Dayal Sharma. Sir, good morning. Good morning, please. Sir, congratulations for presenting superb performance on all fronts, sir. I have some questions, sir. First of all- Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request you to use your handset, please? Your audio is muffled, sir. Hello? Hello. Yes, please, go ahead. Sir, congratulations to presenting superb performance on all fronts. I have some questions. First, sir, our cost of funds always higher by around 100 basis points compared to industry leader. While our credit ratings is at par, why, sir? Second, as you guided 25% CAGR growth till 2028, are you sure we will able to achieve INR 29,000 crore AUM by 2028 and 25% secured loan book out of INR 29,000 crore AUM? Sir, finally, sir, congratulations you got India's most trusted leader award during the year, but I think so market still not trusting or our past come across when we see the real value or market cap of the company. ... Thanks, and best of luck the financial year 2020. So let me piece it one by one, you know, basically. So on the cost of funds, on the rating, I think, you know, we've got an upgrade, you know, technically, I think, COVID had whatever reasons it had in terms of, you know, whatever the rating agencies could probably look at. But I think with the robust performance coming in now for the last, I think about 10, 11 quarters on a trot, I think, you know, my sense is that, you know, this will keep on improving, you know. We've had success a little bit on our cost of borrowing. Definitely, yes, you know, but if you really ask us, and it's a constant feature, it's a work in process which happens practically every time when we go in. We've been able to have a slight reduction in our cost of funds, you know, definitely, yes, you know, which is close to about 30, 30 odd basis points, you know, and definitely I think, you know, this is gonna be a feature which is probably gonna be with us in the future. On our achieving a guidance on 25% plus, you know, we are very, very positive, and we are very sure that we'll be able to achieve a 25% guidance. Of all the factors mentioned above, in my own speech, you know, where I said, you know, if you look at the macro condition, they are very conducive. If you look at the range of the branches which you have in territories where there is lesser penetration, I think, you know, that is an advantage which we hold very well. For us, foraying into two new states, then I think, you know, we've done wonderfully well by keeping our operating efficiencies better, as well as reducing our exposure not beyond 1% in majority of about 97% of our districts, whichever is there. So I think, you know, a culmination of all that, you know, put together will probably give us that advantage. That 25%+, for us, is not even a slightest of challenge, you know, moving forward ahead. On the third, in terms of the market cap, you know, I think probably I'm not the best person to give you an answer on that. I think, you know, the... it's for people to really decide. But I, my only, you know, take on this is that, you know, we've actually performed very well, if we look at the complete data which we've given in terms of our, resilience, in terms of our profitability, in terms of our growth, in terms of our asset quality, in terms of, you know, I would add, you know, our technological advantage, which we have, you know. So when, you know, for us, onboarding of a customer as, from a start of a onboarding of a customer to probably getting money from write-off books, you know, I think, you know, we've done it all, you know. It is all a function of the market to really look at it. But I may add onto this, you know, besides microfinance, I think, you know, we've got two babies which are coming up, which are becoming very, very strong now, which is our subsidiaries of Satin Finserv and Satin Housing. I think, you know, it is only a question of time, and people will actually be able to realize the ultimate benefits of these two subsidiaries when they come up the fold, on a bigger scale, you know. And I think, you know, for us, this is the advantage which we carry as an institution, with microfinance and two of our secure lending, subsidiaries of Finserv and, SHFL. I hope I've answered all your questions. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Sameer Bhise from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity, and congrats on a good quarter. Can you share the write-off amount for Q4? Q4, the write-off amount- INR 24 crore was the write-off amount in Q4 FY 2024. Okay. And any details on what portfolio was it? Was it the pre-April 2021 book or any specific state? So actually, when we write off, we actually take... Because, see, our slippage is so less, we actually do account-by-account feedback from the team, where they have exhausted all their efforts, and they, they give up. So majorly it is 360+ and above, but sometimes we even take a call it, when it is earlier, when the field team gives us that feedback. And then just to add, you know, wherever we don't write, we make adequate provisions. Our provision coverage ratio is 83%, so wherever, sort of, say, we have taken a call, it has already been provided for. Okay, thanks. Secondly, if you could disclose the stage one and stage two provisions, may not be this time around, but as an ongoing practice, it will be great. If you could share the numbers, that would be helpful. I think we can share the numbers with you basically offline, you know. But, Sure. A point taken, you know. I think we'll be able to. We'll show that also now, moving forward. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Agarwal from BP Capital. Please go ahead. Mr. Nikhil Agarwal, may we request you to unmute your line from your side, please? Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. Please go ahead. Okay. Hi, thank you for taking my question. So, congratulations on good numbers on all fronts, except there's one clarification that I need on provisions. So, with regard to this Punjab book, now, this quarter, we were expecting that it would come back because the affected areas and the affected amount of portfolio was really very low, which was around INR 14-15 crores. And out of that, we have already seen, as stated in the presentation and as explained earlier, we have already seen INR 11-12 crores of impact.... So going forward, are there any other issues that we're going to see? Is this going to be repetitive? And, and again, on the write-offs portfolio, if you could just give some clear view on where these write-off books have come from? So on the Punjab portfolio, I think, you know, if I can give you a flavor, the PAR 1 has remained steady at about INR 20-odd crore, INR 23 crore, you know, since the last 3-4 months, you know. So if you look at the deterioration in these 10 branches, I think that has not happened. So no fresh new PAR is coming in. It's only that the flow which is happening in this, in the 90-plus, you know, that is probably which has been there, and that which is also, if you really look at the overall scenario, I think in terms of the complete balance sheet side, this is practically insignificant. So that's on that, you know. Write-offs, there's no specific write-offs. Technically, write-offs is a function of, you know, what the field technically says that, you know, they'll not be able to collect, as well as, you know, a function of maybe somewhere a DPD. Overall, it is practically, you know, it's everywhere. You know, we pick up, you know, wherever it is not coming in, so it's not very state specific as such. If that is what you really want to know, and there is nothing in terms of, you know, looking at. We do it case-by-case basis with consultation with the operation team, you know. All right. So with regard to PAR 90+ flows, because of which we have seen setback in the Punjab book, those PAR 90+ flows have also elapsed or there's more there? Because I understand that PAR 1+, we are not seeing any inflow or any fresh threat, but in the PAR 90+ flows which are backended, is there any more impact left? There's nothing. You know, if you really look at it, the PAR 90 is closer to about, I think, you know, 13 or- Eleven. INR 11 crore. No, no, my INR 11 crore. If you look at PAR 1, which is 23, inclusive of that INR 11 crore, what you might have maybe in addition, you know, going forward, will be another maybe, you know, INR 5 crore, INR 7 crore, INR 8 crore, INR 10 crore, you know, which will probably come in. Which, as I said, if you look at the complete construct of the overall credit cost and the, this thing, you know, our credit cost is 1.44%, I think, you know, which is probably pretty, pretty healthy, you know, looking at whatever is going on in the entire country in terms of, you know, how micro is shaping up. I think, you know, my sense is that this board that there has been an effective stoppage of, you know, probably, you know, the flows into the in, in even in the Punjab Circle as such, you know. Got it. Got it. Well, gives great clarity. The 7-8 crores that you're saying that might come, whatever number it is, 5-10. And again, gradual or is it a one-time thing that comes? So does it hit the book suddenly or like one quarter thing, or is it staggered over 2, 3 quarters? I sense it could be staggered over two quarters as such, you know, basically. But I think, you know, it's a very low number, you know, as compared to what people's apprehension was on Punjab portfolio. So I think, you know, even if it's staggered across, maybe it will be about INR 5-7 crore per quarter as such, you know, at max. Got it. Got it. Thank you so much. Also, can I ask one more question, please? Please, please go ahead. Okay. Why do you think we have the highest operating expense ratio in the space that we operate in, all right? In the MFI space. So I just wanted to know- Sorry, Anikil, you need to check your facts. We don't have the highest. In fact, you know, we're closer to, probably the lowest. Yeah. So we are what everyone says, barring the largest player in the industry. Practically, if you see another competitor declared their results, their OpEx is 6.6, and ours is actually at the average and at the lower spectrum of the average, barring the industry leader. Okay. I'm looking only at the standalone MFI book, and I'm comparing with the top three players. This is what I'm referring to, the standalone book. Okay, let's talk the last quarter numbers. In last quarter, we were actually at the lower end of the spectrum when we look at the OpEx of, I said, except the industry leader. Rest, everyone is from 5.8%-6.2%, and we were at, again, 5.8, 5.9%, if you talk about last quarter, is where we are. All right. And, are we doing anything specific to bring this down? Is there a timeline when operating leverage is expected to kick in? And- This is work in process. This is work in process. You know, our endeavor always is to bring it, the OpEx down, to bring in more optimization. And with the denominator base increasing, I think, you know, we will be able to achieve something or the other, you know, in the OpEx coming down. So we have actually given a slide on the operating efficiency. And if you see, we have actually achieved more than 25% operating efficiency on the existing setup, whether it is the branches, loan account per loan officer, or the clients per center, et cetera. This is how our... One is this, and second, of course, is the base effect, which takes it into, I'll say, You know, there is significant improvement during last financial year, and we are on the lower end of the guidance that we have given. So, and then we are sort of committed to work harder and then sort of keep it, improve it further. But, you see the improvement from last year, it's quite significant. Yes, that is, perfectly visible. Congratulations, and thank you. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddharth Oberoi from Prudent Equity. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. This is a fantastic set of financial numbers that you've announced. Thank you. My query is on the AUM growth. So you see, you've been growing for the last few quarters at 30%+. The disbursements are also 30%. So is this some pent-up demand that has come up, or is it... Do you think this is sustainable going forward? Siddharth, I think, you know, as per our guidance, you know, for us, you know, we've given 25%+, you know, and our forays into under-penetrated states and as well as, you know, taking on new states, along with the existing borrower base, you know, and the deepening of geographical presence in under-penetrated states. You know, I think for us, a 25%+ growth is absolutely a no-brainer, to be very honest, you know. In fact, for us, the achievement always has been to try and beat that, you know, and definitely I think we've beaten this. You know, this year we'll probably be able to do that, this year. Yeah. Just to add to why the 25% growth is a no-brainer. Even if you see this year, the growth in clients is more than 22%. So actually it's a very sustainable organic business volume growth. It is not merely on account of the ticket size, which is not growing as much as the overall growth. Just another comment. So is it, is it any particular region or is this all the 26 states? So, I'm glad you asked this question, because when we got the market study done, when we did our QIP, we actually saw that we are actually present in under-penetrated or lesser penetrated geographies across the industry, vis-a-vis our peers and competition. For instance, states like UP, states like Assam, states like the central part of India, et cetera, are barely two-digit in terms of the penetration. But if you look at the overall addressable population, there is a huge pent-up demand, and we are also seeing even the industry taking note of it, and they are also wanting to go to these under-penetrated states, away from the original hub of microfinance, which was southern India. Okay. All right. So, so basically, that was my question, that if this loan growth is sustainable, then, you know, so, ballpark, do we expect something like a INR 14,000 crore AUM, you know, probably for FY 2024-25? Siddharth, anybody's guess, you know, but we, we'll try and touch to be closer to that, you know, for sure. All right. Sure. All right. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreyansh Jain from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead. Good morning. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Thank you. I just have one question. One of our competitors mentioned that there is a Karza Maafi Abhiyan happening in Rajasthan and MP as well. So, like, are we seeing some stress there, or, like, what's the situation on the ground there? To be very honest, we haven't seen any stress because of Karza Maafi Abhiyan in Rajasthan as well as MP. For us, it's business as normal. Okay, so, like, no impact, zero impact, right? No, no, not at all. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Agarwal from WaterEquity. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question is tied to somebody just said that, you know, Satin seems to be present in more of under-penetrated or unpenetrated districts. So just wanted to understand, this 57% loan one customers, I'm assuming it's for Satin loan one and not new to credit. So my one question is, what is the breakup for 57% in terms of new to credit and, you know, new to Satin from older MSIs? And my second point is, do you do risk-based pricing for these customers who are into higher risk cycles who are matured? So is there any mechanism for risk-based pricing? Thank you so much. Hi, this is Aditi Singh. So in first cycle, while there are 55% first cycle customers for Satin, for every incremental disbursement, 18%-20% are actually new to credit. So that was your first question. And- Risk-based pricing. We are actually going to... We have just introduced, we have now introduced risk-based pricing for the subsequent cycles, so this has been done effective April. Yeah, first April, yeah. What is the approximate benefit you are giving to customers, if you can disclose that? Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are unable to hear you. May I request you to use your handset, please? Yeah. Sorry. So I'm asking, what is the incremental benefit you are giving to the subsequent cycle customers? If that is fine to disclose. Technically, overall, it becomes about 40 basis points, you know, lesser than, you know, from where we start, you know? Okay, that's helpful to know. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ronak Singhvi, who is an investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, congratulations for a fantastic set of numbers. I, I just wanted to understand, so yesterday, RBI basically came across with a note on the unfair practices in charging of interest. I just wanted to check if, if Satin is, is not following any of those practices, just from a comfort perspective. No. So, there's absolutely no impact of that circular on Satin. We electronically disburse all the loan, and the interest is charged from the time it is credited to customer's account. Okay, thank you. Another question was basically on the provisions and the gross NPA. What is the legacy Assam book, which is still sort of lying in the gross NPA, and any status update on recoveries from the government? So the old book is close to about INR 60 crore, which has adequately been provided for. The discussion with the government is on through the industry association. It's slightly challenging to commit a timeline, but there's no indication that will not happen. It's only a question of time. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. These are my only questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Hi, sir. Good morning. Sir, what is our guidance in terms of ROA and NIMS for this year? We have very well surpassed our previous guidance, so now, how do you see it shaping up for the rest of the year now? NIM, I think we are guiding at about the band which we have given earlier is about 12.25%-12.75%. The ROA, the guidance is at about 4.25%-4.75% for FY 2025. I mean, for FY 2024, I believe you have done much higher than that, correct? Yeah, but we always are very conservative. Okay. So you're sticking to the previous guidance and then, Yeah, so we're sticking to the previous guidance, yeah. Okay. Yeah, sticking to that. When it comes to the growth you're expecting, you're saying it's a no-brainer. Do you see it happening, more from the, in terms of client addition or from the geographies in which you are present, or it's a mixture of both? It's a mixture of both. So it's always a mixture of both. Always a mixture of both. Ah, okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Fialoke from Ratnatraya Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Just two clarifications quickly. What was the gross slippage for Q4 and for the year? Give me one second, please. No worries. Thank you. Just give us a minute. In Q4, I would say, the slippage is close to about 60 odd crore, and for the entire year, including something has already been written off our side, was about 140 crore. There's a gross slippage I'm talking about. Understood. Understood. So 70 and 140 for the year. 60 and 140 for the year, sorry. 60 and 140. Yeah. The slippage is to 90%. Got it. And, could you just talk about sort of, you know, how do you think from here, say, cost will evolve for the next 12-18 months? Broadly, what, what are you seeing on the ground, and what do you think we'll end up at, at the end of, say, 2025, 2026? See, our guidance is still, you know, which we had given for the credit cost was at about 1.5%-1.75%. We did about 1.5. I think, you know, maybe early days is yet, but we feel that it's gonna be stable within this guided range of ours, you know, of 1.5%-1.75%, you know. That's what our thought process is, and looking at the ground, I think, you know, we're just waiting for the elections to finish off, and, once that finishes off and the results come out, I think we may- Have it. look at, relook at it, basically. But as of now, currently, we look that this is going to be within the guided range in itself, you know? Understood. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead. Congratulations, sir, on good set of numbers, and thank you for the opportunity. So my question again is related to ROA, more on a consolidated level basis. So looking more, you know, three or four years down the line, what is the steady state ROA that we can achieve? For us, we did an analyst meet, and I think, you know, for us, a steady state, including console and everything, you know, for us, would be again in the range of about 4.8%, you know, or so. You know, that's a steady state, you know, which we are trying to look at. So it'll be within that range of about, let's say 4.8%-4.9% or 5%, you know? Yeah. I think it's gonna be within that realm, you know. So this includes, I mean, this is at the consolidated basis, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. What would the number be for ROE? ROE would be, I think 20%+, you know, for sure. We've done 18.5% this year. My sense is, and I think, you know, for us, looking at the capital adequacy, profitability, ROEs, and everything put together, I think we'll be always be 20%, twenty, 20%+, you know. Could be in the range of 21, 22%, and I think that is what our, effective consolidated, guidance is there. Okay. So at this, the growth rate, we are targeting 25% or even more than that. So what would be the mix of the off-book lending and to the total AUM? What would... A number, if you could share with us? So I think, you know, for us, we are dropping our off-book, you know, slowly and steadily year on year. I think, you know, a year before that, you know, it was closer to about, Twenty-nine percent. 29%. We are down to about- Twenty-three. -23% now. For us, for us going forward, we would be bringing it down to, I think, closer to about 20% or lower than that, you know, in the next couple of years. I think it's gonna be below 20%, for sure. Okay. Okay, sir. That's all from my side, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you... The next question is from the line of Suryansh, from BizX Enterprise LLP. Please go ahead. Good morning, sir. Congratulations. My question was that, what is the average cost of borrowing and versus, like, incremental cost of funds? This was my question. Just one minute, yeah. So, marginal cost of borrowing is closer to 11.5% or so. We've got the rating upgrade only towards the beginning of last quarter. We started getting some overall success there. The blended cost will come down over a period of time. Okay, okay. And, will we go for capital raise in near time, or we have done whatever we are, we have to raise? See, looking at 25%+ growth, and the capital adequacy right now, I think, you know, we don't have any kind of, thought process of going for any capital raise, you know, in the immediate future. Okay, sir. Thanks, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. The next question is from the line of Agastya Dave from CAO Capital. Please go ahead. Am I audible? Yeah, yeah, you are. Good morning, Singh sir. Congratulations on great set of numbers. So I have a few questions. So first is a follow-up on what Aditi Ji was saying in terms of penetration levels. So Aditi Ji, how are you defining this penetration level, where you said that UP is just double digits? Agastya, this is actually done on the basis of the total addressable households who are below a certain income level, and how much households have availed any formal credit, including microfinance. So pan-India, how much would you... like, what kind of number would you ascribe to this penetration, based on this parameter? While we do not have Pan India, what we have seen from that Crystal report is Tamil Nadu and has been has the highest, around 60%-65%, followed by states like Bihar and Karnataka at around 55 odd%. So this is what the high penetration is. Around 60%-65% is the highest across the industry. When you said UP is double digit, you meant like 11, 12% or 20%? 17%-18% is the number for UP. Let's say the comparison, UP is about 17% penetration as compared to these higher states of about 60%-65%. So that's the difference, you know. And so individually, if you look at across geographies, how what is the. If you compare the households of Tamil Nadu with UP, I'm pretty sure the propensity to borrow would be different, and the amount to which they can they are comfortable borrowing, that will also be different. So if you just do a household by household comparison, what would be the relative size of UP with respect to, let's say, Tamil Nadu or Andhra Pradesh? The size in terms of number of people or income level? No, I'm saying, the extent of, let's say, income level or, the borrowing levels. Of course- Like, for example, in Tamil Nadu, probably you can give INR 1 lakh. In UP, can you give INR 1 lakh? That is the question. Actually, it is the opposite. In UP, we can give more because, after the HHI norms, et cetera, what we can actually lend to a household, we are restricted in southern India. The rejections are high by 60, at almost 65-70%, while the rejections in UP are 20-odd%. So uske karan se, and the thing is, repaying capacity across India, people have in microfinance. So I would say 90-95% of people of microfinance borrowers do have the repayment capacity. And just to give you a flavor, western UP is probably the highest in terms of income generating levels, you know, as compared to probably, you know. True. most of the states, you know. True, true, true. Sir, another thing was that I remember many years back, you started your cashless initiatives for disbursements as well as collections. So what levels have you reached today? And in terms of the process of driving this cashless disbursements and collection, how do you do it? Is it like, do you have a nodal bank where all the accounts are linked to that bank and the transactions happen through one nodal bank? Or are you more diversified, and you go to a particular customer and a particular borrower, and if they have, let's say, in SBI, then you transfer the money to SBI. If they have in Canara Bank, you will do it to Canara Bank. How exactly is it structured? So, so we are bank agnostic, you know, in terms of our cashless, collection. For us, we've got, you know, the methodologies of our website, QR code, as well as app and everywhere, and UPI, coming in, you know, across over there. So that, that which pays, if you look at it, pure cashless, without us touching money, is about 10%. Now, when we talk about cashless collection, I think, you know, for us, what is more important for us is the customer to be there in the meeting. You know, normally we've seen that if a customer actually goes through a cashless mode of making a payment, for her, attending a meeting is kind of, you know, you know, they tend to avoid the meeting. We don't want that, you know. That's the reason- Right. Why, for us, the model, the model is based upon a customer connect and the rapport with the customer, and that's the reason why, for us, this has remained at about 10%, and we would like the customer to come to the meeting, have a physical presence, and the interaction with the loan officer probably gives us more insight in terms of the portfolio quality and the credit asset quality as such, you know. But- Right. To add up, for us, all the cash is handled by our agencies, you know, which already do cashless collection. It is technically cashless collection through their associates, you know, which are being done there. So normally for us, our boys only bring the cash to the branch and the rest, everything is handled by the these cash drop agencies, you know, which do those ones. Great. And so you may ask- Also, sorry, you mentioned about disbursement also. For last many years, we have been doing 100% cash disbursement. Sir, I ask this question because RBI recently has been imposing several restrictions on individual banks, citing whether IT-related issues or compliance-related issues. So if it may not be your fault at all, if you are heavily concentrated to one nodal bank, and if they find something wrong in that bank's processes, your disbursements may get hit. So that is why I ask this question. Is there a risk to that? Agastya, I don't know whether you heard my speech, you know, for us. I did. I did. The acquisition of onboarding of a customer is absolutely very, very faultless with authentication of KYC- Per user. from an iris, which I think is being introduced in banks now. So over there, you know, we are basically... So we actually have no problem, you know, if we could be a problem of a bank, you know, but we've got several banks, you know, which are lined up, you know, so we don't have a problem with, There is not a single bank. There's not a single bank, you know, there are a lot of banks, you know, basically, whom we- With whom we tied up for disbursement. Yeah. So one tiny question, if I can squeeze in? Yeah. Sir, may I ask one more question? Otherwise, I'll go back in the queue. Sure. It's a tiny question. Yeah. Tiny answer then. Please ask me. Sir, sir, are you seeing any slowdown because of the elections in Q1? Because this is, this time around, it is a very prolonged election where, like, there is a lot of disruption at the ground level. So any, any impact that we can expect in Q1 in terms of like lower- Maybe a little bit in terms of disbursement, you know, but I think, you know, added to disbursement, this, this whole season is all about harvesting. This whole season is all about marriages. This whole season is all about- Festive ... technically, you know, you know, people not being available because of various factors of, you know, festivals being there, you know. So we had all these Baisakhi, Bihu, Bengali New Year, everything, you know. So I think if you put all that culmination together, it'll be slightly slower in terms of disbursement. But I think, you know, my sense is that moment, May comes in, and I think we'll be able to, bounce back in the normal parlance as such in terms of disbursements, you know. Thank you very much, Aditi. Thank you very much, Singh sir. All the best for the next quarter, also. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prathamesh Sawant from Axis Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir. Congratulations on great set of numbers to Satin and the team. Thank you. So my question is with respect to, sir, that we are seeing in the last 2-3 years, that the overall NPA levels have been going down throughout the industry. So I just wanted to understand from your piece of experience, whether it is because of the political stability that has been coming around in your key markets, and given that we are seeing that the same political stability to continue for the next 5 years, do we see this kind of NPA numbers for the next 5 years, or is it just we are at the good end of the broader cycle? So I just wanted to have what are your, are your insights on this? See, I'll be very apolitical when I answer this. You know, definitely, yes, the stable environment does add on to, the NPA levels, going down, you know. But having said that, I think, you know, for us, the more focused as an institution we are towards, you know, asset quality and credit costs, I think, you know, the underwriting capabilities actually come back, to the fore, you know, which is more important, you know. So I think, you know, stability does add to it, but I think, you know, more than to it, you know, and that's what, you know, we as an institution are trying very hard to do it, to maintain our underwriting capabilities, augment our underwriting capabilities, look at, customer acquisition through all the lens. You know, that's the reason why we said that, for us, iris verifications and all that acquisition and everything, gives us maybe a slight edge in terms of how we are able to do the acquisition and the underwriting of a customer, you know, moving forward. And that'll be a, that'll be a significant thing, you know, which we really want to really concentrate upon and look forward to it. Sir, lastly, again, most of my questions have been answered. Just one broader question on, you know, the structural measure. What are the two or one biggest risk that you see foreseen, you know, coming? Yeah, it doesn't tell you when it comes, you know, but as an endeavor for us, you know, we are always, you know, on our toes to really look at, you know, probably, you know, the ways and means how to do it. And just to give you that example, you know, for us, Punjab came in, you know, without even the thing, you know. But since we have capability in our technology, in our data, in our underwriting, and we have a capability which we feel is sufficient enough, we were able to contain the damage in Punjab much better than, you know, much better than what, you know, the industry has been talking about. You know, I think, you know, that's probably the answer which I can give you. Do you see any structural overhang where, you know, RBI comes in, you know, controlling on the rates that the MFIs face as well? So do you see, foresee that as a risk? See, that's not a risk. That's a collaborative effort, you know, where the RBI would definitely love us as an institution to probably give a lower, credit, you know, cost, lower credit, you know, output to our borrowers. And definitely, and we are, we are all moving towards that, you know. So the reason why we've done risk-based pricing and, looking at a 40 basis point, reduction from first of April, definitely is something, you know, where I think, you know, it's been a collaborative effort with RBI and, and, and, all the MFIs put together. So wouldn't that have an impact on, you know, target ROAs and ROEs going ahead? No, it won't. You know, you've seen our guidance. You know, you've got other ways to probably, you know, cut down on this thing. You know, you can cut down on your OpEx, you can look at credit costs, you can look at cost of funds. Too many features, you know, which can probably be there. So any reduction in ultimate cost will be coupled with, you know, you know, five other factors, which will probably be able to give you that kind of answer, you know. Okay. Sounds great, sir. sir. Best of luck for your future. Thanks, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Miss Aditi Singh, Head Strategy, for closing comments. Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for taking time to come on this call, for all the engaging questions, and for all the trust you have shown, for all the support. We have tried to answer all of the questions, and still, if you want any further follow-on discussions, you can reach out to me or my colleague, Ms. Shweta Bansal, from the investor relations team, and we'll be more than happy to discuss and share more perspectives on any topic you want to discuss in details. Have a great day, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Satin Creditcare Network Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.