Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the SBI Life Insurance Company Limited Q2 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran, MD and CEO, SBI Life Insurance Company Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good evening, everyone, and I welcome you all on my personal behalf as well as on the company's behalf, SBI Life Insurance Company Limited, for the results update of Quarter Two and half year ended 09/30/2023. We APEpreciate and thank you wholeheartedly for your time. An update on your financial results can be accessed on our website as well as on the websites of both the stock exchanges. Along with me, present here are Mr. S. Veeraraghavan, Deputy CEO; Shri Sangramjit Sarangi, President and CFO; Mr. Ravi Krishnamurthy, President, Operations and IT; Shri Prithesh Chaubey, Appointed Actuary; and Miss Smita Verma, Senior Vice President, Finance and Investor Relations. So with respect to our performance for the half year ended 09/30/2023, our comprehensive product suite, aligned with customers' needs, coupled with our continued focus on business growth, maintained our best-in-class ratio and persistency level, led to a decent performance on an exceptionally high base of last year, during the same period. During this half year, we have strengthened our market position and invested in cAPEacity building for the employees and distributors with respect to handling the emerging need of the customer and to support long-term growth. Now, let me give you brief highlights of our performance for this half year ended 09/30/2023. The new business premium registered a growth of 24% over same, over the same period of last year and stands at INR 162.6 billion, and this maintained a private market leadership with share of 24.7%. This registered an increase of 209 basis. Individual new business premium stands at INR 101.7 billion, with a strong growth of 20% and a private market share of 27.3%. The gross written premium stands at INR 337.3 billion, with a growth of 21%. The protection new business premium grew by 25% to INR 20 billion. The profit after tax for this period stands at INR 7.6 billion, with 19% growth over last period, same year. Value of new business stands at INR 23.6 billion, registering a growth of 12% over last period. The VoNB margin stands at 28.6% for half year ending 09/30/2023. The embedded value stands at INR 512.6 billion, registering a growth of 21% over INR 424.1 billion in the last period. The asset under management grew by 22% YoY to INR 3,451.5 billion. Robust solvency ratio of 2.12 as against the regulatory requirement of 1.50 as at the half year ended September 30. We will now update you on each of the key elements in detail. Let me start with the premium. Individual new business premium has grown to INR 101.7 billion, with a YoY growth of 20%. Single premium contribution is 34% of individual new business premium, which is mainly attributed to growth in our individual annuity product. The company gained the private market share by 169 basis points to 27.3%. On individual rated new business premium, we stand at INR 70.6 billion, with a growth of 17% over previous period, and maintain our leadership position with private market share of 24.6%. Also, group new business premium stands at INR 61 billion, with share of 37% in new business premium. Having said that, we have collected total new business premium of INR 162.6 billion, registering private market share of 24.7%. Renewal premium grew by 17% to INR 174.7 billion, which accounts for 52% of the gross written premium. To sum up, the gross written premium stands at INR 337.3 billion, with a YoY growth of 21%. In terms of APE. Premium stands at INR 82.6 billion, registering a growth of 21%. Out of this, individual APE stands at INR 71.4 billion, with a growth of 17%. During the half year ended 09/30/2023, total 9.84 lakh new policies were issued. Since 2010, company has maintained its leadership position amongst private market in number of policies issued and consistently delivered year-on-year growth over the years. This reflects the clear goal of the company to increase the penetration and achieve holistic growth. Total new business sum assured registered growth of 48% over corresponding last period, as compared to growth of 45% at industry level. Let me give you details about the product mix. So as on September 2023, our guaranteed non-par saving products are contributing 14% of individual new business, and on individual APE basis, it contributes 20%. Individual ULIP new business premium at INR 54.5 billion now constitutes 54% of individual new business premium. Growth in ULIPs is attributed to the positive market movement in the equity markets. Individual protection new business premium is at INR 4.3 billion. Group protection stands at INR 15.7 billion, with a growth of 34%. Credit life new business premium has grown by 12% and stands at INR 10.2 billion. On APE basis, protection contributes 13% of new business and registered growth of 39%. Annuity business is at INR 28.6 billion and contributes 18% of new business premium. Under annuity, the company is offering immediate as well as deferred annuity options. Individual annuity business is growing at 50% over last period, and this is mainly due to the new business contribution of Smart Annuity Plus of INR 24.3 billion. Total annuity and pension new business underwritten by the company is INR 41.8 billion, registering growth of 27% over same previous period. Moving to update on distribution partners. With a strength of more than 59,000 CIFs, State Bank of India and regional rural banks, bancassurance business contribute share of 65% and grew by 16% in individual new business premium and on individual APE basis. It stands at INR 47.2 billion, with growth of 15%. Agency channel registered new business premium growth of 32% and contributes 19% in new business premium. Agency channel individual APE stands at INR 20.6 billion as on 09/30/2023. The total number of agents stands at 236,978, a growth of 33% over previous period. During the half year, the company added net of 28,204 agents. During the half year ended 09/30/2023, other channels, the direct, the corporate agents, brokers, online and web aggregators, grew by 56% in terms of individual new business premium and 22% in individual APE. Linked business through other channels registered growth of 48% on APE basis. The updates on profitability are like this: The company's profit after tax for the half year ended 09/30/2023, stands at INR 7.6 billion, with 19% growth YoY. Our solvency remained strong at 212% as on 09/30/2023. Value of new business, it stands at INR 23.6 billion, with growth of 12% as against INR 21.2 billion in the last period. VoNB margin is at 28.6% for the half year ended 09/30/2023. The shift in VoNB is mainly on account of increase in share of ULIP business as compared to previous year. Embedded value stands at INR 512.6 billion, a growth of 21% over previous period. Embedded value operating profit stands at INR 44.4 billion. Operating return on embedded value is 20.2%. On operational efficiency parameters, the OpEx ratio stands at 5.4% for the half year ended 09/30/2023. Our total cost ratio stands at 10% for the half year ended 09/30/2023. With respect to persistency of individual regular premium and limited premium paying policies, 13th month persistency stands at 85.4%. The company has registered improvement in 49-month and 61st-month persistency by 92 basis points and 509 basis points respectively. As mentioned in the opening remarks, assets under management stands at INR 3.45 trillion as on 09/30/2023, having a growth of 22% as compared to 09/ 30 /2022. The company continues efficient usage of technology for simplification of processes, with 99% of the individual proposals being submitted digitally. 50% of the individual proposals are processed through automated underwriting. Before I conclude, on behalf of management, I would like to clearly state that the company's aspiration of financial year 2024 growth remains unchanged, and our endeavor to deliver better than industry growth stands. With our widespread, robust distribution network, complemented by the digital technology and above all, our people power, we are very well positioned to Capitalize the growth opportunity that is offered in the dynamic insurance landscAPE. The company is aligned with the regulator's vision and will continue to focus on various reforms, enabling deeper penetration of life insurance industry. Thank you, all. And now we are hAPEpy to take any questions that you may have. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Swarnabha Mukherjee from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just, my first question is on the VoNB margins. So just wanted to understand that, if I look at the margins, say, from in first quarter vis-a-vis that from the second quarter, we see that the product mix now has a fairly larger share of unit compared to what it was last quarter. Despite that, I think the margins have remained steady. Of course, group protection has gone up also a bit. So just wanted to understand that is group protection the only offsetting component for the, the increase in units, or are there other factors? There may be some cost element that is there, or some kind of assumption changes which are making, which is helping us to, you know, sustain the margin profile. So that would be my first question, sir. So, Prithesh, yeah, thank you so much for your question. I think margin side, you are, you are right in that despite the higher ULIP in Q2, how margin has been stable. So you have to take a note that margin accretion coming on account of not only the product, change in the product mix, but also within the change in the profile and within the product segment, what kind of product we are selling. So during this period, we have sold protection that noted higher protection. We also sold the annuity and even lower non-par, but we have repriced our annuity product and non-par product. That's really giving higher margins. So, if I look into, there is a fall coming on the margin on account of the product mix, but due to better profile and better product within this product category, has helped us to gain those margins. And the reason I say the impact on the adverse impact on the margin is not too much. Okay, sir. So if I understood correctly, so even if I see in the APE mix that your non-par has gone down or your annuity has gone down, but the impact on the margin is not so much. It has been offset by product level margin improvements. That is a right assumption, right, sir? Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. That's good. Yeah. Okay. And also, sir, just wanted to understand that when you did the year on the walk between last year's first half versus where it is right now, there is this additional benefit coming from operating assumption changes. Is there something new that you have added, or is it some, what you had done at the end of fourth quarter that is basically reflecting here? So there's no change. So we have not make any assumption change. The impact we are reflecting is the same that we have made in year in as on 03/31/2023. So operating, there is no change. Absolutely, the impact is coming because you're comparing from the September to this September, you are getting this impact. Okay, sir. Got it. And couple of bookkeeping questions, sir. If you could give us a breakup of the Group Protection APE between Credit Life and Group Term Life, and also the INR 110-odd crore positive operating leverage that is there, if you could give us a breakup of that. Just to give you the bifurcation between the group and individual protection, overall, I can tell you that both Group Credit Life plus GTL together consist of almost 60% of the protection portfolio, and the rest is from individual. So 40, 60. Sir, I actually wanted the breakup between of the group portfolio, so between Group Credit Life and Group Term Life, you could give us. No, I don't have right in front of me, but we will discuss later on this. Okay, sir. All right. And on the operating, positive operating variance, if you could give us, give us the breakup. So if you see the, even the year end, we have disclosed the, of, component of the operating variance. So being a more efficient company in the last time also, and we have done a lot of, good work in terms of improving the persistency and other. So our, our operating variance, and if I can say, the most of the operating variance coming, all the, we have positive operating variance both on mortality side, significantly higher on mortality side, then we have expenses, and then coming on the persistency. And, we expect that as and when we move to the year end, we'll get further, this operating variance will improve from this level as well. So all, just to confirm, all component is giving a positive variance on this, sir. Perfect, sir. Got it. And just one quick follow-up on the first, response. So within the unit category also, is there any kind of, margin change because of product profile, or that remains kind of steady state? Not significant, but not significant, but I, I think there will be some not able to replicate exactly the what last quarter profile coming to this quarter, but the most component is coming on the account of non-ULIP products. Understood, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Thank you. Sir, I have two questions. First is on the growth outlook. So in the first half on the individual APE, you've delivered 17% growth on a 21% base. So, sir, can you help us understand what is the outlook for second half, and which will be the key products that could drive where you're seeing better demand? And will we be closing the full year on 20% growth guidance that you had spoken about in the last quarter? My second question is on the number of policy growth. So for the first half, is the number of policy, individual policies is up 6%, while the individual APE growth, like I said, was 17%. So, sir, can you help us understand what exactly where is the ticket size growth, and is there more potential for NOP growth going ahead? These are my two questions. Thank you. Okay, so we stand by the growth projections given at the start of the financial year. And as you know, there is some seasonality. So although our growth in this first half year is around 16%-17%, but we stand by the 20% projection, and we are working in that direction only. So by the end of the year, we stand by the 20% growth. Now coming to your second question regarding ULIP. Of course, the increase in share percentage of ULIP has also led to increase in the ticket size, as you rightly mentioned. And the growth number in number of policies at 6% is lower because of this higher ticket size. Going forward, though we welcome the increase in number in the ULIP sales, but we are also working internally to increase the share of non, non-par and protection plans and also par plans, so that a healthy mix is maintained. Sure, sir. And just following up on the first question. So, so I believe that the growth of 17% on individual APE for the first half largely is because of the Bancassurance only growing at 16%, right? So, is there, is there, should we expect that the, that would be the one of the key channels that could pick up in second half? Yeah, got it. Just to add here, this quarter, if you have seen, the agency has grown by 35%. Bank has also grown by 16%. And the, generally for our OND and JFM used to be very high composition of business mix of almost 60%. And the way, SBI channel has been poised to do now, we expect that not only as N said about the product mix, but also the growth will be in tandem as we have guided. It will be the range bound between 19%-20% for FY 2024. Okay, thank you. This answers my question. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Question. My question actually pertains to, you know, channel-wise business. You know, we have seen that agency has grown quite impressively this quarter, and there is a fair bit of increase or almost doubling of business, of, you know, ULIP business from the agency channel. Now, when you speak to some of your peers, you know, their argument typically is that the persistency of agency may be somewhat lower than, you know, the bank assurance channel, and which is the reason they would... And ULIP being a product which is extremely sensitive to persistency, they would probably resist or, you know, pushing ULIPs through the agency channel. And I think you've grown ULIPs pretty aggressively through agency. I was just trying to understand how are your persistency ratios in ULIPs versus banca and, you know, how comfortable are you with this kind of growth of ULIPs through agency? So, in fact, our ULIP persistency in the agency channel is better than the banca channel. So, there is no challenge on this front, and we will continue to push the products in the agency channel. You would have noticed that our agency growth was 35% compared to banker, so the focus remains on having a healthy mix of all the channels. So 13-month persistency on agency versus banker? Yeah. So 13-month persistency in agency is better than the company average. So agency used to be always far better than the company average as far as the 13 month is concerned. Secondly, our agency persistency is one of the best in the industry, and which we will continue to explore on this particular 13 months. Not only on 13 months, rather now our agency channel persistency for 37, 49, and 61st also have been growing significantly for us, and which is almost kind of one of the best in the industry. We don't see much incentive on the side of the ULIP business coming down because of persistency, because our ticket size and our geography where we're present in India, it has been helping, and that is what is our USP and the success of agency channel for SBI Life. We will continue to monitor that and continue to more penetration will be there for our tier two, tier three cities going forward as per our agency is concerned. Only on the product mix side, I think, in the last quarter you had guided that, you know, the overall sale of—sorry, share of ULIPs will sort of moderate down for the year. So would you still kind of, you know, go with that sort of a, sort of a guidance? I know it's gone up in this quarter, but, separately, as we go towards the end of the year, you know, how do you see the mix panning out? So while we continue to work towards our intended ratio of 55/45 kind of ULIP and non-ULIP, but you will appreciate that this mix is somewhere sometimes also directed by the market conditions. Equity markets are doing pretty well, so generally, public are more inclined to go for ULIP in this scenario and... But our focus on other products remains the same, and our intended goal also remains the same, for getting a 55/45 kind of mix. This is my question. Thank you very much, and all the best. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Madhukar, the line for you has been unmuted. You may proceed with your question. Can you, can you hear me? Am I audible? No, we are not able to hear you. Hello, am I audible now? Yes. Go ahead. Yeah. Sorry, sorry about that. So, couple of questions. Number one, see, market conditions are good, and that helped, you, you know, achieve a pretty good growth in Q2, and partly also, you know, offset the bad performance or, or the subpar performance in Q1. So, but market conditions now are not that good, right? So, so markets have become a lot more shaky. So in that context, if ULIP does not do well, and even the IRRs on some of the non-par products have come off, given the interest rate curve has, you know, flattened quite a bit, would, would you see that as a challenge in the second half, to growth, right? So that's question number one. Second, a very large growth has come also in your group APE, if I'm correct. So in first half, the growth from group APE is pretty solid, and a lot of it happened in Q2. So it'll be important to just understand where is it coming from, how much is sort of credit life and how much is GTL and if a lumpy GTL business has contributed to this. And third, we've got some feedback that commissions for the agency channel have also gone up. In general, commission rates have gone up. So, you know, how are we reacting to the market condition, and how have we sort of managed to get such a good growth in agency? Yeah, these would be a few of my questions. Thank you. So, first of all, I will say that the first quarter, you cannot say it was bad. It was maybe a little subdued, but, we have made up that in the second quarter, and the first half overall is pretty good. As far as market conditions, you are saying this temporary kind of volatility will always continue. These market corrections keep happening, every quarter, every half year at frequent intervals. So, exactly, I will not say that the market conditions have gone adverse. And in any case, this is a insurance, this is not purely investment. So we will continue to push it as insurance products and, our channels, various channels, including the predominant banker channels, they continue to work to push insurance, and they tape all the available opportunities. As I earlier also said, we stand by our 20% growth projection, and we are sure that with the right kind of product mix and right use of channel, we will be able to achieve our intended growth numbers. Right. So just a follow-up. See, your ULIP is predominantly debt. Almost, I guess, about 68% of the linked AUM is debt AUM. Still, market conditions have such a big impact. So, that's the conundrum, which I'd like to just if you can explain that a little bit, that how are we selling this to be a market product, but with equity component being much lower? See, just to give you the perspective about our new business inflows, it is not debt dominant. You are referring to the AUM- Yes. - that is the reason you are seeing this, debt to equity. As far as our new business inflow or the renewal businesses are concerned, it is quite balanced. So we don't see any challenge per se, as such, for SBI Life, and we are pretty confident, as MD said, we have been spread across India from the SBI network as well as for our agency channel. We are quite confident that our mix, as well as debt equity to the various strata of the customers whom we are catering, we are quite confident that we will be able to maintain our, composition in the debt equity. So there is no challenge per se, either of the market going up and down. Right. And, on the group business side, if you could help me understand, I think this quarter we've seen a very strong growth. In fact, in the group business, we have done very strongly on the some of the segments, so particularly on the GTL, we have done good. Group Credit Life, as you know, we have been doing good, so that is also growing in a double-digit. So overall group business, if you see, group protection is around 15%, and this is the overall at this moment on the group business side. And Group Credit Life has been growing at 12%-13%. Okay. Okay. And finally, on the commission rates and on in the agency channel and what is this what is happening out there? See, as far as our commission structure is concerned, there is no change. As far, we have been very consistent about all our channels', commission, payouts, and we'll continue to do that. Specifically to the agency, there is no change, as I said, because across our channels, the same rate of commissions are being paid. When it is required, we will, we'll discuss, and accordingly, we take a call based on the sentiment at that point of about the market. If it is a Non-Par or ULIP or any other segment, we will appropriately take, but at this moment there is no call taken about any commission, restructuring as far as the products are concerned. And one final question, sir. Any change or any update on the thought process at SBI in terms of, you know, increasing the commission payouts, given that the AUM Capes or the commission Capes are gone? So, any update out there which you would like to share? So I think CFO just confirmed that as of now, we have not looked into any changes in any of the commission structure, be it agency channel or banker channel. So, we will respond to the situation as the things pan out going forward. Got it. All right. If you see the required, whatever we plan to pay based on our own assessment and based on the various other features, we have appropriately taken into account also, so it is appropriately disclosed. Understood. Thank you, sir. All the best. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Firstly, on the banker channel, as particularly SBI, what would be number of branches of SBI that would be selling SBI Life products today? And, how do you plan to increase this going ahead? You see, all the branches are authorized to sell, and all branches continue to sell, but what we can say is that in any given month, say from 55%-65% branches are active. I mean, they actively sell every month. Okay. So, but that mix keep changing. All of the branches are authorized. Okay. Coming to the product mix in the individual protection business, what is the mix of ROP and non-ROP? It is same, which is been, every quarter-on-quarter we used to publish between 85-15. 85 ROP and 15 is non-ROP? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I got that. And, what are the new product launches pipeline that you would have for the second half? So, we are working on quite a few products, so, maybe we introduce some one or two product in the non-par savings segment. We also working on the comprehensive, comprehensive review of this rider portfolio, because that will help us to not only increase the protection, but also in some of the saving product. If you are having the waiver of premium rider and pay benefit rider, that also enhance the sale of those products. So we're working on, on that, that line. We also are working on one or two, ROP, protection product, ROP and higher ticket size, because as you know, we, continuous updating, we're seeing that 86% is coming from ROP. So if we have to do better, objective is to introduce another segment in the ROP segment things, or the higher segment, and then that will come. So, and also we're looking to some of the things from different MP size, so that will come currently. Okay. Last question, from a protection supply standpoint, are we back to pre-COVID levels or, you know, in terms of medical underwriting or financial underwriting, you know, back to pre-COVID levels or what is the support from the insurance companies? Where are we standing there? So on the insurance side, we have seen a lot of improvement coming in. So we, because now people have stabilized, the COVID claim is more or less stabilized, though we are not getting fully benefit, but we do see a lot of support coming from the reinsurance side, both in term of the high non-medical limit, also in term of the premium reduction. So quite a few places where the reinsurer has increased the premium rate on account of COVID, they either looking case by case basis, reducing that. In some company like A Life, we have got some a reduction that's also helping us in the margin enhancement. So I think we expect that going forward, maybe 6-8 months, we may get further support from the reinsurance. Plus, our ability to reach to the class border reinsurer also increased, and we're getting a lot of benefit and support from the reinsurance market. So I think, COVID is, though very difficult to, but I think is a corner and going forward, will the improving trend will get stabilized, I think we'll get some more benefit as well. As of now, both the reinsurer and we are also taking a cautious and prudent approach before going to the massive, significant reduction on the premium. Got that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening, sir. Three questions. First, when you look at your non-par products and see the growth in non-bank and non-agent, specifically the other channels, that has been relatively robust in non-par and protection growth. So could you give some color on what will be the channels and, you know, whether it's non-par or par that is growing in this channel? And also from a policy versus premium perspective. Second, in your other channels, if you can give some color on what the mix would be of non, I mean, non-FCI banker and how the growth has been shaping up, and, you know, if you are planning on adding a few more banker partners that may be there in the pipeline. Lastly, in the last quarter, you had highlighted that you are taking certain strategic steps to improve productivity at agency. We see some granular data during the quarter, but if you can give some more granular information on how agency is shaping up, from both quarters and from a medium-term perspective out there. You are talking about non-agency, non-banker channel, right? Yes. Yes. So, actually the base there is very small, so the growth percentage-wise looks pretty good. And we will continue to work with our existing partners, as well as we are always on the lookout for new partnerships in this area. And as you know, we will continue to drive the business in all product segments, ULIP, as well as non-par, par and protection. So, new partners, of course, discussions are always on, and as and when they add up, the numbers will start increasing further. Sure. I also am asking more from the non-par and protection perspective. You gave the segmental breakup, and it seems that on a low base also, while other channels have witnessed declining non-par, it seems that and the non-bank and non-agency have seen some improvement. So just wanted to get some color on that. See, non-par others, which is our Smart Platina. So that is almost kind of a significant growth in the other banker partners, which is almost kind of 41%. In case of protection also, they have been growing in a good rate, which is almost kind of a 12%+. And annuity also, they have been doing good in the double digits. So, in the IA, which is being other agents, other than agency and banker channel, is doing overall good as compared to last year with a balanced product segment. Uh- We expect that they will do better in this next six months because the composition which we are expecting from them is better non-ULIP as compared to ULIP. Got it, sir. And if you can give some color on if you're looking for incremental banker types or if anything there is in the pipeline? As I said, that there are discussions always going on, and as and when we onboard new partners, we will let you know. Okay. Lastly, one last question on agency, your strategic initiatives and how they are shaping up and how agency is geared up for two years and from medium term? If you see the numbers, the growth in agency channel in the second quarter is much better. And, now they are more aligned to our annual growth targets also. One thing is that the number of new agents added in the second quarter is very high, and as these new agents get active, they will start contributing to the top line of the company in a much better manner in the second half. Sure, sir. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I had three questions. Starting with the first two one. Now, if I look at your commission to premium ratio and compare second quarter FY 2024 with last year, there seems to be a 60 basis point increase in commission, you know, commission to gross premiums. But when I look at the product mix, the ULIP, which typically has lower commissions, that has increased. So how should I think about this? Why has the commission to gross premium ratio increased? That's one. Number two is on the individual protection, you know, that has declined in the second quarter. Just, you know, reasons why that has been the case, because your peers are seeing growth in that category. Lastly, on the agency, one of the key drivers for your agency growth has also been agent addition. Last year, on a gross basis, you added around 75,000 agents. This year you have added, till date, around 50,000 agents. So how should we think about agent addition going forward? Can this pace continue? And what has been driving the significant agent addition, because previously you were not adding agents at this rate? So if you could help me with these three questions, that would be very helpful. Thank you. So first one is the commission percentage, which you have mentioned about to the GWP. In fact, the commission has come down is due to the product mix. ULIP has gone up and non-par has come down, and that is the reason only the, the commission rate has been come down. Otherwise, as we already discussed, we will, focusing on the non-par and, protection and par, so this will take up the commission ratio further going forward. Second one is the protection. Protection, particularly on the individual protection, it is, we can say that it is flat. So we anticipated, good growth, which, already the second half numbers have started doing well, and we expect that we will achieve whatever targets we have, fixed for ourselves in the, FY 2024, in the individual protection. And as Prithesh has already mentioned about the new products, which we are planning to launch, that will also help us to achieve our numbers. But that is continuously it is a focus for us, and we will continue to deliver the numbers which we have planned for FY 2024. Agency channel, particularly, just to give you a perspective, we have been adding and we are the one of the best in the agency channel, particularly not only on the performance but also on the additions. There are two factors to it: One is the additions for us is being very consistent. This year we have added already in the books in SBI Life, as far as the agency is concerned, we have crossed 236,000 agents, which is a growth of 33% over last year. The gross additions, if I can tell you, that is almost touching 50,000 in the first half itself. The productivity also has gone up for our agency channel year-on-year. From the productivity as well as from the number of agents, we are very focused. Parallelly, what we are also focusing for agency channel is that the branch activation and the branches of SBI Life should be there across regions so that they get the assistance, whatever is required for our agency channel. Comprehensively, the agency channel is being very, very focused for us, and we wanted to take agency for higher growth. At this moment, we are growing at 20%+ on YTD H1 2024, but it will definitely grow in the for the bigger numbers in the going forward. Got it. Sir, just to clarify one point: So on the commission to gross premium, it has actually increased from last year, because last year it was 4.4%, this year it's 5%. See, commission last year, if you see, as far as my number is concerned, it is 4.6, which is 4.5, and that is at almost flattish. That is what I said, it has almost kind of a flat number, commission is concerned. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. The next question- Mm-hmm. Is from the line of Mahek, from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So I have a couple of questions. So first one would be, so if we look at the margin trajectory, it will be dependent on, the product mix, operating expenses and external factors such as, interest rates. So now looking at the possible product mix, including some uptick in the credit life and non-par savings products, how do you see the margin panning out for the rest of the year? That would be the first one. The second one would be, I mean, the other channels have been, doing well. So can you help us understand what's going on there? That would be the two questions from my side. As far as margin projections are concerned, we stand by the guidance that we have provided about it being in the range of 28%-30%, and we continue to stand by that. As you see, our first half year margin is also at 28.6%. So, within the same range, depending on some basis points here or there, depending on the product mix and the channel, it will continue to be in the same range. As far as product mix is concerned, you, as I already said earlier, that ULIP, because of the market conditions, may be selling more, but they are more than welcome. What we have to do and what we are focusing upon is increasing the number of policies in the non-par and protection, so that a healthy mix is preserved. And this same product mix we are trying to push through all our channels, be it banca, agency or other alliances, other banks and all. Sir, on the other channel one? Uh... Other channels? Channel is a small part, but definitely it also includes the digital part. Digital channel, where we have some presence, but the base is very small. So the growth that is shown in digital channel is on a lower base, so percentage-wise, it shows very high. But we will continue to focus on this channel, keeping future in mind, and we are also going to offer some more products on the digital channel in the digital market. As far as other relationship are concerned, we will continue to look for more opportunity with other banks as well as NBFCs wherever possible for the on the group side. Okay, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neeraj Toshniwal from UBS India. Please go ahead. The line for the current participant seems to have disconnected. We will proceed with the next question, which is from the line of Raj Asaya from Agam Capital. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you. Just wanted to understand on the SBI bank channel, just wanted to know, like, what is the, is there any threat of new participants or partners in the channel like we are seeing in other banks, in terms of, in context of the open architecture? Do you see any threat there? State Bank, of course, is our strongest partner, and we don't foresee or I don't think there are any discussions going on at the current time for any other partnership in that sphere. Got it. Thanks. Okay, related, in the SBI bank channel, do you, can you give any indication of what's the sales in terms of rural versus urban areas, branches? Or at least, an indication of how this is going, in terms of mining the rural area and the penetration. See, the overall for SBI as a channel, it is kind of a 50/50, so 50% rural and 50% urban. So we have got four classifications within that. So, but in the broad terms, it is like metro, urban, semi-urban and rural. So if you see, then it is kind of a 50/50 composition. Okay, 50/50 in terms of sales, sir? New business sales? Yes, yes, new business. Okay, great. Great. Another, unrelated question. Just wanted to understand in the context of, you know, the long-term, savings products that we sell, which are extremely long term, sometimes more than 20 years. My understanding is that we may not have liquid, hedging instruments for these kind of products that we sell to protect, the long-term risk. So what is the strategy there, or is, or is it kind of, a probability-based thing, or do we... Because we see that in the Western, developed markets, there have been cases where, you know, insurance companies themselves have gone bankrupt because of, you know, losses on, these long-term, guaranteed products. So on this, when we refer to the long-term savings product, 30 years, 26 years in the policy term, what we do, we don't, for the regular premium long-term savings product, we do offer the limited pay savings product. And if you look into our maximum policy premium paying term that we offer is 10 years. So if you first premium, we invest you, you have to hedge only maximum to 9, 9 premiums. And as of now, we don't see any challenge. We are getting appropriate hedging. And our strategy is we'll keep writing this product till we get the hedge. If there will be challenge coming from the hedging perspective, we'll revisit our strategy and we'll work upon. No, no way we are going to take undue risk. To just assure you and others that, at SBI Life, when we are selling the Mahatma Gandhi product, all are hedged. We are taking appropriate hedge and mitigating positions, and there is no undue risk on account of interest rate movement in the future. Very secure product, and that's the reason we are offering these products. Got it. Got it, sir. Thank you. That's it for now. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prashant Kothari from Pictet. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello, sir. I just wanted to know, IRDAI had come out with those new guidelines on commissions and Capes and stuff, and we said in the last earnings call that you will be formulating some new policy regarding how to deal with that. Any kind of update on that front and any kind- Sorry to interrupt, Prashant, but the line is not very clear. I request you to please use the handset while you're speaking. Okay, is this any better? This is much better, sir. Please ask your question again. Okay. Yeah. I'd just like to understand, in the last earnings call, this was asked about the kind of new guidelines by IRDAI on commissions, and you mentioned that you'll be coming up with some new policy regarding that. Any kind of update on that, and any kind of conversations going on with SBI on any potential kind of change in the commission structures? See, the overall commission structure for across partnerships, we have accordingly taken into account, and under the new extensive management guideline, and appropriately, wherever it is required, we have communicated and provided in the books. So you can see it from the financials. Whatever has been already provided is clearly mentioned there. So the discussions with all the partnerships are being very productive, and wherever required, we have appropriately provided for that. Should we expect any change in the overall margin structure for the competition? ... No. So, we don't see anything, any change in the margin structure at all, because it is based on the product mix and various other parameters, as already been described in our internal policy. We don't see any change in that. All right. Okay. Thank you much. Thanks, Prashant. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vivek Khanjode from Aditya Birla Sun Life Insurance. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir. So the first question is on credit life. So wanted to understand the portfolio mix for the credit life new business premium, how much of it, the percentage of it coming from the captive SBI bank and the other partners? The second question is on the GTL front, where the group GTL has shown a high growth. Is this because of any strategic calls that have been taken recently, or is it because of some other reasons? And the third question is on the group annuity front. So what is the percentage in terms of group funds, what is the percentage of annuity that has been contributed for the new business premium? The credit life generally is being done through our SBI channel, and this consists of almost around 15% of our total group business. Second, the one you asked about? GTL business. GTL business, this quarter we have done, and which has been very significantly in the higher side. And there are some deals which have been ratified, which we have been trying for last 2-3 months, and that is the reason this group GTL has gone up significantly as compared to the previous period. The third one you asked about the group annuity. Group annuity at this moment, it is, if you see, it is growing at around 20%+, and we see both in the individual as well as group annuity, there is a good traction, and we continuously focus on annuity business, as we have been doing it for the few quarters now. And at this moment, group annuity is growing at 20%+, and individual annuity also is growing significantly more than that. Just to add on your question on GTL business, on account of its change in strategy. We'd like to clarify, there is no change in strategy from our side. We are very much there in the group protection business and we are very much there today. Depending on the profile that we're getting, is making sense for us in terms of the profitability and the claim ratio, we do accept that. I think you need to, if you're looking back in the COVID period as well, when most of our peers are taking or hedging to hesitate to taking any group business, we do participate in the GTL business. Our strategy is remain intact. There is no change. We look into group business case by case basis, scheme by scheme basis, and the scheme makes financial viable for us, we do participate and take on our books. Okay, sir. And on the group front side, what is the mix on triad and ULIP for the new business premium? I think mostly coming on the group front. Mostly coming on the Traditional. Traditional part. Yeah. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Roshan Chutkey from ICICI Prudential Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. Simply want to understand, how should one think about the increase in surrender ratio that we are seeing for the last two quarters? See, the surrender ratio which you have seen, which is in the increasing trend, it is not due to anything other than the market movement. So it is an MTM impact. So because those who have surrendered during the last few years, after five-year completion, we need to pay them out. So that is the reason at this moment, the market is quite significantly higher as compared to the previous period, so the surrender is being seen in the higher side. Otherwise, we don't see any challenge as far as the surrenders are concerned. Even you compare the surrender as a percent of AUM, is more or less similar. Yeah. Yeah. That is good. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Roshan. The next question is from the line of Mohit from BOB Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. So if I look at the rewards, you know, within our policyholders account, we see that there's a substantial jump, you know, even sequentially and annually. So wanted to understand why the rewards have increased so significantly? See, as I said earlier, we have accordingly provided for, depending upon our partnerships and the relationship with the various intermediaries, and this is based on our internal policy, and that is appropriately provided for in the books. All right. So going forward, also in the second half, we would see the rewards also, I mean, the amount being a little higher? This will be very technical because, as you know, previous years, this was not available. Now, since it is available, so obviously the comparison for this year will see in a bit, little higher side. All right. Secondly, in terms of persistency, so we have seen a very, you know, increase in the, in the 61st month persistency, and our ULIP is also inching up. So you see, the ULIP, you know, the customers actually holding on to SBI Life products quite longer, so that's why the 61st month has been higher. Any color on that? So persistency is one area where we continue to work very diligently to improve the percentage, because lower percentage, lower persistency not only harms the company, it also harms the customer more. We keep running various revival campaigns, various renewal campaigns and all, to make the persistency high. We are very happy that our efforts in this regard are paying good results. Of course, with the market on the high, the customer has more propensity to submit his installment timely also to gain the market advantage. All right. Thanks, and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you for taking my question again. Sir, I just had one question on the non-par savings product, the Smart Platina Plus. So in the industry, what has been seen in the past six months, everybody's taken a cut on their IRR. So if you can help us understand how many rounds or if, if any rounds of cuts that you have on the IRRs that you were offering on your non-guaranteed product? So, see, difficult to comment on what our peers and others are doing in the industry. We always have been offering the sustainable return, where some of them might be offering optimal or very competitive things, and when they're not able to meet, they have to go and reduce those returns. We always be prudent and offer that we're always clarifying that our approach is to offer any return to the customer, which is sustainable in longer term. So that's happened. Now, corresponding to your question that we have just done one modification, and that reduction is maybe 5-10 basis point reduction in the return to the customer, not much. So that's our side. Okay, so just one round of cut is what you have done in return? Not very significant. Only 10-15 basis points reduction in the IRR for the customer, not much. Sir, just one follow-up question on this. Whatever rate you offer, it's the same in all channels, right? If I go to an agent or a bank RM, I'll get the same, same for my product, right? Say, if I go for a 10 years... Okay, okay. Uh, yeah. Sir, your- Also. Yeah, and your products on the non-par guaranteed, are they income on your product? Sorry, not clear. Can you hear me now? Hello. Yeah. Yeah, repeat the question, please. Can you repeat the question, please? Yeah, yeah. So I'm saying that on your product structure, is it very long term in nature, or is it like up to a 10-year income and then up to 25-year... Sorry, 10-year pay and then up to 25-year income? Or is it the usual product is very-- Is it very long term, or is it shorter term income? No, it's not very long term. We don't offer a whole life kind of a product. So it's a 10 pay, 20, 60 years, 30 years, not beyond that. Okay. Very well. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran, MD and CEO, for his closing comments. Over to you, sir. So, I thank all of you very much for the time you gave to SBI Life and all the queries. I hope all, all of you are satisfied with our responses. If you have any more queries, you may get in touch with our investor relations team, and we will definitely try to get back with the right clarifications at the earliest. Thank you. God bless you all. Thank you. On behalf of SBI Life Insurance Company Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.