Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the SBI Life Insurance Company Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star, then zero, on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran, MD and CEO, SBI Life Insurance. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Good evening all. We from SBI Life Insurance Company Limited welcome you all to the results update call of the company for year-ended March 31st, 2024. We appreciate and thank you wholeheartedly for your time this evening. Update on our financial results can be assessed on our website as well as on the website of both the stock exchanges. Along with me present here today are Mr. S. Veeraraghavan, Deputy CEO, Sangramjit Sarangi, President and CFO, Abhijit Gulanikar, President, Business Strategy, Subhendu Bal, Chief Actuary and Chief Risk Officer, Mr. Prithesh Chaubey, Appointed Actuary, and Ms. Smita Verma, Senior Vice President, Finance and Investor Relations. We are pleased to inform you that we have successfully maintained the new business thrust and have again delivered enduring performance in this year as well, and we continue to be the market leader across individual and total business. We have sold the highest number of policies in the industry. This aligns with regulators' objective of insurance for all and our goal of broadening our customer reach through our customer-centric product offering. The performance of the company demonstrates our distribution strength and expansive outreach to the customer in a cost-efficient manner. Our commitment is to deliver sustainable long-term returns and holistic growth for all our stakeholders. During the financial year, year 2024, we continue to remain focused on growing our business at a sustainable rate, offering varied products in our basket to align with the customer demand, creating a balanced distribution mix, and maintaining a best-in-class cost ratio and persistency levels. Let me give you some key highlights for the financial year 2024. New business premium registered a growth of 29% over the previous year and stands at INR 382.4 billion, and maintained private market leadership with a share of 24.6%. Individual new business premium stands at INR 238.3 billion, with a strong growth of 14% and a private market share of 25.8%. Gross renewal premium stands at INR 814.3 billion, with a growth of 21%. Protection new business premium grew by 15% to INR 41.7 billion. Profit after tax stands at INR 18.9 billion, with 10% growth over last year. Value of new business stands at INR 55.5 billion, registering a growth of 9% over last year. VNB margin stands at 28.1% for year ended March 31, 2024. Embedded value stands at INR 582.6 billion, registering a growth of 27% over INR 460.4 billion in March 2023. Embedded value operating earnings stands at INR 100.5 billion, with a growth of 11%, and operating return on embedded value stands at 21.8%. Assets under management grew by 27% to INR 3,889.2 billion. Robust solvency margin of 1.96% as against the regulatory requirement of 1.50%. Customer satisfaction is at the heart of our operations. We constantly strive to exceed expectations and enhance the overall experience for our policyholders. The improvement in our net promoter score reflects the growing trust and satisfaction among our customers, highlighting our dedication to their financial well-being. It gives me immense pleasure to say that we have recorded an NPS score of 72 in the current year as against 59 in the previous year. We will now update you on each of the key elements in detail. Let me start with premium. Individual new business has grown to INR 238.3 billion, with a year-on-year growth of 14%. Single premium contribution is 31% of individual new business premium, which is mainly attributed to growth in our individual annuity product. If we exclude the annuity business, single premium contributes 12% of individual business. The company gained in private market share by 149 basis points to 25.8%, and industry market share by 144 basis points to 15.9%. On individual rated new business premium, we stand at INR 172.3 billion, with a growth of 13% over last year and maintaining our leadership position with private market share of 23.3%. With a gain of 107 basis points and an industry level we gained by 118 basis points, market share stands at 15.8%. Also, group new business premium stands at INR 144.1 billion, with a contribution of 38% in new business premium and a tremendous growth of 66% over last year. The company gained in private market share by 635 basis points to 22.8%. Having said that, we have collected total new business premium of INR 382.4 billion, registering private market share of 24.6%, with a gain of 326 basis points. And at industry level, we gained 213 basis points, with a market share standing at 10.1%. Renewal premium grew by 14% to INR 431.9 billion, which accounts for 53% of the gross written premium. To sum up, gross written premium stands at INR 814.3 billion, with a growth of 21% over the previous year. In terms of APE, premium stands at INR 197.2 billion, registering a growth of 17%. Out of this, individual APE stands at INR 174 billion, with a growth of 13%. During the year ended, March 31st, 2024, a total of 22.6 lakh new policies were issued. This reflects the company's intent to increase penetration and achieve holistic growth. The company is aligned with the regulators' vision of insurance for all and will continue to focus on various reforms enabling deeper penetration of the life insurance industry. The number of lives covered during the year ended March 31, 2024, is 37.9 million, registering a growth of 84% over the previous year. Total new business Sum Assured registered a growth of 25% over the corresponding period last year as compared to a growth of 19% at the private industry level and a growth of 22% at the total industry level. Let me give you details of the product mix. As on March 24, our guaranteed Non-PAR savings products are contributing 19% on an individual APE basis. Individual ULIP new business premium is at INR 137.8 billion, which now constitutes 58% of Individual new business premium. Growth in ULIP is attributed to positive movement in equity markets and change in customer preferences. Individual Protection new business premium is at INR 9.5 billion. Group Protection stands at INR 32.1 billion, with a growth of 22%. Credit Life new business premium has grown by 9% and stands at INR 22.6 billion. Other group protection business stands at INR 9.5 billion and has registered a growth of 66%. On Protection business, it contributes 11% of APE and registered a growth of 18%. Annuity business is INR 60.2 billion and contributes 16% of new business premium. Under annuity, the company is offering immediate as well as deferred annuity options. Individual annuity business is at INR 50.7 billion, with a growth of 22% over last year. Total annuity and pension new business underwritten by the company is INR 89.3 billion, registering a growth of 6% over last year. Moving to an update on distribution partners, with a strength of more than 59,000 CIFs, SBI and Regional Rural Banks' bancassurance business contributes a share of 64% and grew by 9% in Individual new business premium. On an individual APE basis, it stands at INR 117.2 billion, with a growth of 12%. Agency channel registered new business premium growth of 22% and contributes 18%. Agency channel individual APE showed a growth of 14% over last year and stands at INR 48.4 billion. As on March 31st, 2024, the total number of agents stands at 246,078, a growth of 18% over last year. During the year ended, the company added net 37,304 agents. The share of agency business in individual rated premium has increased from 27% in the previous year to 28% in the current year. During the year-ended March 31st, 2024, other channels like direct, the corporate agents, brokers, online, and web aggregators grew by 49% in terms of individual new business premium and 17% in individual APE. Linked business through other channels registered a growth of 49% on an APE basis. The share of other channels in new business premium has increased to 31% in the current year from 21% in the previous year. We are focused to strike optimum balance among various distribution channels, and we expect to grow by leveraging these multiple drivers and further strengthening our distribution network. The updates on profitability are as under. The company's profit after tax for the year-ended March 31st, 2024, stands at INR 18.9 billion, with 10% growth as compared to the previous year. Our solvency remained strong at 196% for the financial year 2024. Value of new business stands at INR 55.5 billion, with a growth of 9% as against INR 50.7 billion in last year. VONB margin stands at 28.1% for FY 2024. The shift in VONB is mainly on account of an increase in the share of ULIP business as compared to the previous year. Embedded value stands at INR 582.6 billion, a growth of 27% over the previous year. Embedded value operating profit stands at INR 100.5 billion, with a growth of 11% over the previous year, and operating return on embedded value stands at 21.8%. The operational efficiency comments for the year are as follows. OpEx ratio stands at 4.9% for the year ended March 31, 2024, and our total cost ratio stands at 8.9% for the year- ended March 31st, 2024. With respect to the persistency of individual regular premium, the 13th month persistency stands at 86.8%. The company has registered improvement in the 13th month and the 61st month persistency by 126 basis points and 295 basis points, respectively. As mentioned in my opening remarks, assets under management stand at INR 3.89 trillion a s of March 31, 2024, having a growth of 27% as compared to March 31st, 2023. Death Claim settlement ratio stands at 99.2%. The company has registered an improvement of 78 basis points over last year. We are committed to delivering need-based solutions that address the ever-evolving customer needs based on customer profile, life stage, and goal prioritization. The company continues efficient usage of technology for simplification of processes, with 99% of the individual proposals being submitted digitally. 45% of individual proposals are processed through, excuse me, automated underwriting. To conclude, we will continue to focus on long-term sustainable profitable growth, enhanced automation, and digitalization to ensure customer satisfaction in the long run, along with great value to all our stakeholders. Thank you all, and now we are happy to take any questions that you may have. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register for the questions, you may press Star and one now. Our first question is from the line of Madhu. Our first question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth. Please go ahead. Hi. Congratulations on a good performance. I have a couple of questions. I'm just looking at the EV movement, and there's a very big release in the mortality and morbidity, right, and operating variances. So can you explain what really helped that? We've seen two years of good reserve releases over there. The other thing, on the monthly numbers that come out, January and February were very strong months. What actually sort of went wrong in March? Because we would have expected a stronger March to come through as well. Can you also comment a little bit about product-level margins? So are we seeing any changes in the Non-PAR and PAR business sort of margin at the margin levels? Yeah, those would be my three questions to begin with. I'm Mr. Yeah, Prithesh, go ahead. Yeah. On the EV part, if you look at the operating variances, we have made the mortality variance. This is a similar thing last year as well. If you look into that. And as we keep mentioning that we adopt a prudent approach while setting the assumptions, and our experience is much better than what we assumed for, and that's the reason you are seeing the mortality variances. Other point that we mentioned last time as well is that in the group platform, we always wanted to take the schemes which are profitable, and those schemes also contributed. We are not just seeking to get the market share on the group-owned business or credit-type business. So both the places you are seeing are mortality variances coming into. On the product-level margin, I think we don't disclose the product level, but I can tell you that each and every time, we review our product in terms of the movement of the interest rate and all our experience. Within the product, we try to optimize the value both in terms of the margin for the shareholder as well as the better return and better offering to the policyholder as well. Some of the things are like we keep adopting the segmented approach in terms of the product offering. Different segments have different experiences, and we try to reflect those segmental experiences in our product offering and that's also helping to get the margin enhancement. Last quarter, we launched two TROP product segments, high segments, which is INR 25 lakh and above. That's getting a very attractive traction in the market, and that's also helping enhance our margin. We expect this is going to further enhance our margin under there. Understood. So if I get you correctly, the mortality and morbidity releases are more from the group business than from the retail protection business? This is all across all because it's a reflection of our composition of existing business. So, not specific for any particular line. It keeps coming across all the lines, including protection, including unit-linked, or even traditional product as well. Because we keep selling traditional individual TROP. So, all perspectives, we are getting this various variants under. Okay. But would it be more from the group business, any sense on the contribution? I don't think this is explicitly coming from the group business. I think overall basis, it's coming from. Overall. I got it. Understood. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Just could you repeat the point on the VNB margins? What has contributed to improvement in margins? No, we are not saying that what has contributed in margin. I think our margin has if you look into last March to this March, there's a reduction in the margin, especially on account of the product mix. If you look into December to this December, our margin is at the same level. So what we try to explain in the earlier question when asking for opportunity on the product-level margin, we say that we always optimize these things on the segmented approach, reflect the experience of that segment. And within the product line, there is a lot of opportunity to optimize the value both from the customer as well as the shareholder in terms of margins. So that's the reason we within the line, even we do the similar level of business, we are slightly business. There is a possibility of enhancing those values for the shareholder, and that's the reason we are able to maintain this margin. Okay. And just structurally, how should we think about margins and growth for SBI Life from FY 2025 perspective? Which are the product segments that would kind of see growth, and particularly whether the non-PAR segment would start contributing to growth again in FY 2025? How do you see the product mix kind of playing out in FY 2025? I understand generally you all say that it depends upon what customer demands, but still, ULIP has been picking up momentum. Whether that momentum should sustain, or how should we think about product mix and profitability for FY 2025? If you look at the product mix, and you yourself said that ULIP was flavor of the season last year, which you very well understand was coming from a very good performance of the stock market. So the equity market performance reflected into the increased demand for ULIP products. Going forward, while we continue to offer all kinds of products to all segments of customers, and it all depends on the customer's choice. Having said that, we will definitely like to grow our protection and Non-PAR business also in the coming year for a healthier product mix. That should reflect ideally, if that translates, that should reflect into better margins? Yeah, definitely. That will affect our margins, and that effect will be for the positive, I must say. Okay. And just could you give some granularity on the individual annuity, which has been growing very strongly for you, and how does annuities kind of impact the VNB margins? So on the growth, this retired people is the fastest growing segment of the Indian population, and the NPS scheme is also giving good feelings to the annuity business. So in terms of volume growth, we expect annuity to be a long-term growth story in India. Prithesh, anything on margin? I think this is a very profitable business for us, and it is helping us to enhance the margin for the company. We try to reprice actively, try to get the business at a cost which is reflecting to the investment return, and it's margin enhancing. Okay. Would the profitability be higher than the company level? We don't disclose, but the moment I'm saying that it is helping us to enhance the margin, it's giving this better growth. Yeah. Can I ask one last question? The private players, all the other private players as well, are now looking for more granular growth wherein they would be entering Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, branch expansions. SBI Life, I think, has a better presence in those cities and geographies. Would you see increased competitive pressure with respect to commission payouts and also some pressure on margins because of the kind of competition that could come in? And so yeah, your thoughts on competition increasing in Tier 2, Tier 3? Our presence, SBI Life's presence through SBI branches as well as our agency network has already been strong in not only Tier 2, Tier3 cities but also in the rural areas. Even now, there exists a lot of scope. Having said that, we also say that we don't play the commission game to increase the top line, and we will, going forward also, stick to that. We will meet the customer's expectation. We'll provide them better experience, and that will drive our business in the coming year also. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please restrict your questions to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you can rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Actually, the biggest question what I have is that in the current quarter, your bancassurance channel seems to have been muted, very muted actually, because you don't have a base problem what other private companies had. And the growth was being pretty weak in the bancassurance channel, low- single- digits. So I just wanted to understand what led to that muted trend in the bancassurance channel growth, both in SBI and other bancassurance relationships. And I think one of the participants asked that question, "Why March suddenly fell off the cliff when January and February are good?" So I just wanted to understand how do we read these numbers and how you expect bancassurance to do going ahead in that sense. That's my first question. Maybe after you answer that, I might squeeze in one more. So if you have been following the company, you will be aware that the Banca channel over the four quarters, December quarter is always the best, and that was true this year also. Last year also, the Banca channel after December performance, this is the seasonality of the company and the Banca channel which reflected in this month also. As far as March month is concerned, the industry figure, if you consider, then our performance with the industry has been at satisfactory levels. Yes, sir. We understand that point. Yes, sir. We understand that point. But other players had that problem of high-ticket policies of a bigger base. We did not have that problem, but still, the growth was pretty, I mean, honestly, no one in the street would have expected a negative growth in the month of March for SBI Life. So I just wanted to read that in conjunction with the lower Banca growth. So anything to read there that SBI intentionally slowed down or some big tax came from somewhere which led to that muted growth is the whole point which I want to conclude. Not nothing like SBI slowing down or anything. Month-on-month number, I think the quarter number, if you compare, they will be better. We had a 6% growth over the quarter over last year. So there is nothing like that SBI is slowing down or something, but we'll continue to SBI is our parent, and we'll continue to have a strong relationship with that Banca channel. Okay, sir. Fine. I mean, because the reason I'm asking is that others, which is nothing but your other PSU bank relationships, that has been also muted at 8% for the quarter, year-on-year. That actually do sequentially very well. So again, and sorry for hopping that point, whether Banca has some kind of a stress, especially PSU banks from a growth point of view. No, Banca is a very strong channel, and we should not read too much about one quarter's performance. It's a long story. Okay. And make you confident that the next quarter growth will be more than 15% for next year growth will be more than 15%, or you still want to maintain that guidance of 20% growth? As of now, we are not putting any number for the current quarter growth, but our long-term growth targets and our CAGR, we will definitely like to maintain. Okay, sir. So for the next one more question just on the Protection business. See, your individual protection was muted for the entire year. Credit Life was also muted. I mean, individual protection declined 5%. Credit Life just grew by single- digit 9%. But last part of the growth came from GTL, which grew 67%. So I just wanted to understand whether this mix or color will change next quarter, next year, I need to say, or you see on a bigger base, individual protection is struggling to grow. Individual protection is one line where we will continue to remain focused, and we want to increase that business. The lower proportion in the last year may be a reflection of the customer's choice for the ULIP during the year, as other analysts have also pointed out. I would like to clarify that protection remains our focus area, and we are also going to introduce some more products in this year for growing the individual protection business. Perfect, sir. Thank you very much. Protection will also remain. So, Abhijit, you are confident that that INR 9,500 crore will still repeat next year at that 67% growth? No, the overall protection is INR 2,099 crore, Sanketh. No, I'm referring to only GTL, which you said is INR 9,500 crore for FY 2024. That number, which is 67% growth year-over-year, you are confident that number of INR 9,500 crore will sustain going ahead too? Sanketh, we are focusing on, as Amit said, for the overall growth of each segment within the protection. So it starts with individual protection. And Credit Life and GTI, both, it comes as per the plan numbers. And we expect that we will try to improve upon those numbers. But GTI, as you know, this is based on some specific transactions, and it depends on the geography to geography. So we will be focusing on overall growth. As Abhijit said, we have already launched two products during this quarter, and we expect that the individual protection will grow in a better proposition than the group. Perfect, sir. Thank you very much. That's it from my side. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, just a small reminder. Please restrict your questions to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, please rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Mahek from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the good set of numbers. I have two questions. One is, what would be the reason for a -INR 285 crore of rewards in the quarter four result? And secondly, if I see the 37th month persistency, it is at 71.3%, which has seen a drop in this year. So I wanted to know the reason for the drop. That's all. Sir, there is this cohort of the COVID period. Last year, if you have noticed, if you remember the number, the drop was in 25th month, and that COVID cohort has moved to 37th month, and we have seen some fall out there. But there is nothing much to read. We have other persistency in all cohorts, 13th month, 25th month, 49th month, and 61st month. Everywhere, it has increased. So that 37th month is one exception related to the COVID cohort. And you would like to answer about the rewards? Yeah. So as you know, we have also communicated previously that we appropriately made some provisions as far as the discussions going on with our respective Banca partners, which actually, we've seen that as per our estimates, which we have designed or defined, we have achieved. So then the remaining, we have reversed that. So this year, we will again see how it will set up, and accordingly, which is required, then we'll provide it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. So firstly, I wanted to understand on the group savings side, there has been a significant jump this year. Just wanted to understand what is driving that. And the second question was on SBI. I know you have answered this before, but I just wanted to understand that we had seen significant productivity gains there at a branch level. Now, that seems to be plateauing. So would it be fair to assume that now further penetration within the branches could become more limited, and you should be growing more in line with the bank as compared to ahead of the bank? Is that a correct assumption to make? Those are my two questions. Thank you. Look at the branch penetration in SBI. Our penetration in the overall customer base of SBI is only around 2%. And if you see the insurable kind of people with more than, say, INR 10,000 balance, there also, our penetration is between 3.5%-4%. So that leaves still a very, very large population of customers of 96%. So you cannot say that it is plateauing. We are making conscious effort to improve insurance penetration in the entire population. And there is a 96% kind of cohort where we have ample scope to improve the productivity further. On the part of group savings, as you know, these are all lumpy businesses. So depending upon the corporate's requirement, we get across the year. Principally, we have been restricting this number between around 18%-20% of my total MVP, which I think we are under very much control. So we will look into on a year-on-year basis how this business will flow. Got it. And just one follow-up to that penetration question. Thanks for the data. Just wanted to understand, do you have any idea about how many of these insurable customers may have an insurance policy with some company already, and how many would not have any insurance policy? Do you have any data on that, sir? I don't think we have that kind of information available with us. Got it. No problem. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Jain from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. Two questions. Firstly, what all is constituted in other channels that we disclosed? In Bancassurance, I think only SBI Bank is considered. What all channels are included? And secondly, if you can give the breakup of group protection APE between GTI and Credit Life for FY 2024 and FY 2025. See, other channel consists of my all Banca relationships, excluding SBI and corporate agents, brokers, and the other online channel also. The bifurcation of the group protection, the difference is around 55% of the total protection is coming from this Credit Life and GTI. Between GTI and Credit Life, if you can give the number, what is the contribution from Credit Life and GTI in the APE individually? for GTI, it will be INR 930 crores, and for Credit Life, it will be INR 226 crores. So these are on APE? APE. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from me. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead. Hello. Good evening. Hope I'm audible. So 2, 3 questions from my side. First, a data-keeping question. If you can split your expected return on the existing business in your EV work between the unwinding at the reference rate and the unwinding on real-world asset returns. I assume you used to report it historically. Second, on these other channels, which has been the non-SBI, non-agency channel, which has been reporting quite a strong growth, I just wanted to get some sense of how do you think of the payouts shaping up at these counters once you start expanding at a very fast pace at some of these counters? And lastly, on the margin front, I mean, let's say next year when ULIP, for example, let's say were to compress, do you see a competitive pressure rising in some of the other channels in terms of the pricing pressure that maybe your competitors are willing to offer? So is there a risk to your product-level margins? So those were my three questions. Prithesh? Yeah. So on this EV, basically, expected return perspective, we don't have that right to really advertise this number. So we need to reflect that. I think, to be fair, comparable to the market, we have used that. I think if you RFR, you know what it is coming from, and then expected if you look into total disaggregated return, it's more or less similar to last year. So it is coming on that perspective. And the margin perspective, I don't think much pressure will come on anyone launching the product at all. We try to be reviewing and actively repricing our products. So our endeavor is to be that we keep mentioning that either to maintain the margin or try to enhance those margins. So we don't see any stress coming on those product-level margins. On the partners, even this year, we have some agreements with our partners for which we had made provisions. Next year also, we will have some parameter-based numbers. We don't see any significant pressure coming from that side. Sorry. So just one follow-up on the first question. Will it be safe to assume that your returns on the asset returns I mean, the real-world asset returns, the assumptions have not changed meaningfully this year? Would it be a safe assumption to make? Yeah. What you're mentioning is it might change much because, as you mentioned, the expected return basically look into your blended return that you expected depending on your asset mix for existing portfolio and what you expected in the future. So our approach is unchanged, except some impact might be happening on account of the change in yield curves that accounted for the new investments. Otherwise, it's fairly safe. You can assume that it's similar level. Got it, sir. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neeraj Toshniwal from UBS India. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Congrats on your trade. Wanted to understand, again, on the product-level margin, are we seeing improvement in any of the product-level margin because, given we were dealing heavy, still we have managed to deliver a decent sale? And would this mean that this will become a base margin going ahead? We can see further improvement with the mix improving in FY 2025? I think, yes, there is improvement in the margin within the line of business. So that's also helping us both on the even the Non-PAR protection side. Even with that, we mentioned that we launched protection product where margin is slightly higher than what it used to be earlier. So I will continue reviewing that. So we'll see the enhancement coming from. And if you summarize that, if you're able to get the better product mix from the current level that we are aiming from, I think there will be upside from the current level rather than any downside. So, other two products which you talked about, which you have launched in this quarter, which means April, the running quarter, are basically focusing on the pure protection plans rather than ROP, if I get it correct. No, this is a two-plant that we have launched in there. It is mostly under TROP, large segment level with INR 25 lakhs and above. We are in the process of reviewing this upcoming quarter with the pure protection product as well. As your MD also mentioned, that objective is to continue to focus on protection. We will be continuing reviewing the portfolio and coming out of the other products, 2 or 3 products already in pipeline in the protection sector. Sure, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Anurag Mantri from Old Bridge. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Just one question from my side. So the total number of policies, the individual number of policies in FY 2024, based on the IRDA data, has grown only 3% this year. This used to be mid-double-digit last two years. So anything specific to understand from this? I think overall, we have been growing in a better shape as far as the number of policies are concerned within the last few years. This year, our improvement over the ticket size has shown a growth over the number of policies. And we have anticipated a better number in our Non-PAR portfolio, which is consisting of both protection and Non-PAR guaranteed savings, which has not come up as you have seen from the numbers. But we expect that this will correct in the coming years because, as already mentioned, we are focusing on the product mix, which will go towards non-ULIP. So the number of policies will also enhance in the coming years. Got it. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditi Joshi from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. So just my first question is on the economic assumption change. So when I compare this economic assumption change, the impact of this in the embedded value movement versus the VNB movement, the economic assumption change is positive for EV whereas negative for VNB. So can you please help explain this difference? And just a related one that before you change your assumptions, how many years of experience you observe as in last 2-3 years or 5 years before you think that it's time to make the changes in the assumptions? And my second question is related to the growth differential between Tier 2, Tier 3, and Tier 1. If you are able to share some growth numbers as in where the growth is higher in MVP, is it higher in Tier 1 as compared to Tier 2 or Tier 3 or vice versa? Yeah. That's all. Thank you. Prithesh, can you respond to the first part? Yeah. So I responded to two questions on this perspective. When we set the assumptions, we do look into the historic experience. We look into the trend. And in terms of the trend, we look into the 5-year trend, 3-year trend. And objective is to look into what is the emerging trend. And all our assumptions reflect into the emerging trend to reflect the demographic assumptions. Other question, you are looking for the, I think, impact of the economic assumption change. So when we look into this impact, when we go to the EV, it's a reflect of existing book, and that's changed from the point to the point. So if you look at the March changes, yield curves are 31st March 2023 to the 30th. So when you look at the VNB perspective, it's an average, and that's reflected on the new business compositions. As you know, as you said, it also indicates the interest rate movement will have a different impact on the unit-linked business and non-linked business. That's the reason we see slight variation coming from that perspective. In terms of growth, it is more not Tier 1, Tier 3. It is more state and other customer segment growth, which has varied. We have not seen any significant difference between growth of Tier 3 or three times compared to Tier 1 times. There is no pattern that we can see there. Okay. Just one follow-up on the experience. I remember just one of your peers, they observed the last two years' experience before making any changes to the assumptions. Is it last two years' experience for you as well, or you wait for more years before changing any assumptions? We do take some longer period to ensure that the experience that we are going to use for assumption setting is credible enough. Now, credible enough will also depend on the exposure of those line of business or those modalities, as we said that. But our view is not to make year-on-year changes. Our view is to make an assumption which is sustainable for a longer period of time, and to some extent, it is prudent as well. Second point, just to add to your question on this, when you look at economic assumptions, EV and other, other part is, if you read this chart, economic assumption for EV is not only economic assumption. It's also imposing most of the economic variance, and most of the things are coming on account of economic variance. That you expect actual return is much more than what you expected in the yield curve. Okay. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Anirudh Shetty from Solidarity Advisors Pvt Ltd. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is around the GTI business. You shared the APE figure for FY 2024. Could you share that for FY 2023 as well? It is around INR 600 crore. Got it. For this business, while we're calculating our VNB for this, do we assume it to be a yearly sort of business, or do we also make an assumption that the business could get renewed, and so we kind of take it on a more multi-year type of explanation? Because this is a yearly renewable business, and it's a very bumpy business. This year, it is renewed. Next year, it might be one or other things. Particularly, as a company, we try to acquire and renew the business on a profitable terms of things. So we always assume this is our one-year business. Okay. Sort of the individual protection business, you explained some challenges there this year because of ULIP doing well. But the products serving very, very different needs, so was the challenge more from the customer demand side, or was it more from the push side, from the distribution side when they prioritize pushing ULIP? There is no change from the push side. We want to offer all our products to all our customers. We provide all solutions for every life stage cycle of the customer. It is customer's choice. As I told earlier also in response to some other question, this year, the flavor was ULIP because of excellent performance of the stock market. People preferred and were attracted to the equity returns. The kitty of investable surplus with the people is same. If they are preferring ULIP, obviously, the other line of business, the share goes down. But from the company side, our focus is on all the products, and we offer all the products layout in front of the customers. Got it. And just one final question is, when you think about the opportunity within SBI, you had mentioned 2% penetration. Is that just for insurance or for all our savings products put together? And you had also mentioned the target customer, someone with, correct me if I'm wrong, but more than 10,000 savings balance. So I just want to understand that, how have we arrived at this 10,000 savings balance as a potential customer? That basically is SBI's internal data, and they run internal data analytics. That is what they have informed us. We don't have that customer list with us. That is the data analytics that SBI runs. And this 2% is for all the products, not only the protection products, for all products that we offer through SBI. Got it. Got it. Thank you for asking me questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Punit Bahlani from Macquarie Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. So just on an APE growth basis, your peers have said that they are expecting APE growth in line with industry levels. But what would be your expectations, sir? I know you don't want to give an explicit guidance, but will we be expecting higher-than-industry growth in the high teens or what? Any comments? See, if you understand clearly, you are talking about the APE growth vis-à-vis the peers' comment on that subject, correct? Right. Right. See, if you have seen our trend in the past and current year also, we have been better off as compared to the industry within the industry also among the private players. We will try to maintain that position going forward. As we have mentioned, the growth trajectory will be similar to what we have been saying in this year and will continue to focus on the leadership as far as the private industry is concerned. Got it. Just confirming one thing, on the margins front, you highlighted that going forward by trendline improvement in the protection mix, you do expect further levers for margin expansion, right? There is a probability because it depends on the product mix if the switch will happen from ULIP to non-ULIP. So expectation is that if it goes as per the plan, then there will be a positive towards the margins. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Roshan Chutkey from ICICI Prudential. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for taking my question, sir. I just wanted to understand, from a regulatory standpoint, what do you worry now? How should one think about it? I think worry is the wrong word. Our regulator, the sector regulator, is very active, and the regulator is taking all the right steps for improving the insurance penetration, overall sum assured, taking care of long-term, short-term customers, everybody. So we don't feel any challenge. The regulator is working for the customer satisfaction, and the company's policy fully aligns with the regulator's policy. Thank you. Thank you, Roshan. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Jhingran for closing comments. Thank you very much, everybody, who was here, and we had very fruitful discussions and the insights into the industry. I thank you again for all the time and also queries. I hope we have provided you with satisfactory answers. If you need any clarification, you can reach our investor relations department, and we will be happy to satisfy any other queries regarding it. Thank you. God bless you all. Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of SBI Life Insurance Company, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.