Welcome to all of you to this analyst meet of Tata Power. Now before we begin the proceedings, a small safety message for all of you. We are assembled at the auditorium in the ground floor. There are two exits to this auditorium. The first one is at the back of the people sitting. You can go take the exit and then take a right and left to the lobby and out of the building. The other exit is on my right, which is in this side. This will directly take you to the lobby. Please move from there to the exit building and then move to the right to the stage assembly area. If you are in any other part of the building, please follow your group coordinator for today for the exit. Use the stairs instead of the elevators during any emergency. There are no drills planned today, so in case of an emergency, please evacuate as per the instructions of the group coordinator. Thanks. That was a safety pause. Now it is indeed my pleasure to welcome you all to this physical meet after almost four years. The last analyst meet which we had was 2018. Then, of course, we had a virtual one in 2020. Of course, we have been having quarterly analyst calls always and interacting with you. I think this has been a long while before we had a physical meet. A lot of things have happened during this period. We all went through very challenging times during the pandemic. Of course, even now the geopolitical situation is something which all of us know. This, all of this has obviously affected every business, every country across the globe. Tata Power actually has been very active during this period. The company has initiated a series of transformation steps, as you all know. This was one of the reasons why we couldn't have an analyst meet, because whenever we sort of planned for analyst meet, we are in the midst of a transaction. We thought that let the transaction get completed and then we will do. We were actually doing, for instance, divestment of our overseas business as a wind farm in South Africa or a shipping business and, or strengthening our balance sheet by infusing preferential capital from our promoters or acquiring Odisha during the period of COVID and, or looking at, you know, completing the merger process of CGPL into Tata Power. We were also working on INVIT for a long while, as you know. Finally, before we completed the current transaction on the green company platform. I think we have been so busy that unfortunately we couldn't have a physical meeting. Finally we decided that, before we do another big transaction, we should be actually having a physical meeting. When we decided that, one of the guidance given to us by our MD was that let's not do this in the usual stuff in a hotel, 'cause we'll come and have a presentation and then eat and drink and go. He wanted this to be an experiential sort of a meet point, and therefore create a situation where we can showcase to you what we have done in this period and showcase some of the various new business initiatives which we have taken. What we have today is a two-part plan. The first part, the first half, which will start now with a presentation by our MD. Then we'll have a Q&A following that presentation. We'll break for lunch at about 1:00 P.M. Post the lunch at about 1:30 P.M., 1:45 P.M., you will split into different groups. You all have been given different colored lanyards. You will follow the group of which you are part, and you will be taken to different stalls. There are about seven stalls which we have put in place here. One of the things which is interesting about this whole experiential thing is that the choice for the venue also was MD's. The choice was that this place can be as conventional as it can be. It's a thermal power plant. This is the place where we started mostly our, you know, the history. This is the place which is going to showcase the transformation also. It's a combination of some. The people in our thermal plant who have worked the last maybe 10, 15 days to put all this together, they have also put one generation cluster, you know, stall. They said that this is the conventional bread and butter which was there for us, but don't forget that. We will showcase the other things also. While we do all that, today we have the senior management team with us. Our MD and CEO, Mr. Dr. Praveer Sinha is there. Mr. Sanjeev Churiwala, who is the CFO, he's there. Sanjay Banga, who heads our T&D business, is there. Mr. Vijay Namjoshi, who heads the generation cluster, is here. Mr. Gurinder Singh Sandhu, who heads the new business initiatives, is there. And Jyoti Bansal, who heads the corporate communications, is here. And we also have Himal Tewari, who heads the HR for us. Oh, we will be missing Mr. Ashish Khanna, who is unwell, so he couldn't come today. Maybe we'll have another interaction for you all with him separately. I now invite Dr. Sinha for his presentation. Thank you, Kasturi. Good morning to all the analyst friends who are here and my senior colleagues from Tata Power. It's a pleasure to see all of you face-to-face. We have, of course, the quarterly calls and neither we can see anyone asking the question, nor you can see any one of us answering the questions. It's just a voice that you hear, and today we'll give a face to all the voices that we hear. It's such a great opportunity to meet and interact with all of you. Kasturi mentioned we have our senior colleagues over here. I don't know how many of you recognize them, but let me take the opportunity of requesting each one of them to just stand and tell you who they are. We have with us our CFO, Sanjeev Churiwala. We have also Mr. Sanjay Banga, who is the President of T&D. We have Vijay Namjoshi, who is the Head, Chief of Generation Business, and he is the host for this location. Whatever good is there is because of him. Thank you. We have also Gurinder Singh Sandhu, who heads the new business, which is typically rooftop and EV and home automation business. We have Himal Tewari, he's the CHRO, and he keeps everyone motivated to do new things, so that's his task and to get the best talent and the best training for our people. He's here. We have Jyoti, who is looking after not only corporate communication, but our initiatives on CSR and sustainability, which is a very, very important part of our business. It's part of our one of our core values, and it's one of the aspects where we work very closely in terms of how we become a sustainable company going forward. We unfortunately do not have Ashish Khanna, who is the President of Renewable. He's down with viral fever and he was wanting to come today. I told him, "You can become a super spreader if you come over here, so let's avoid." So he has not come today. We also have Professor Sunil Sharma, who is the Chief of Strategy for us. Professor Sunil Sharma is on a sabbatical, two-year sabbatical, from IIM Ahmedabad. He's a professor of strategy over there, and for two years he'll be with us, guiding us on thinking very differently in how we should make the roadmap for Tata Power going forward. That's our senior leadership. Of course, we have the team from some of the team members from the other businesses, from finance, from renewable, from generation. Kasturi, of course, all of you know Rahul Shah is there. Also some of the other colleagues who look after these businesses. Kasturi mentioned that we have a very different format this time of interaction. Presentations we can always send to you, and you can always see the presentations. We have few slides, which talks about the opportunity in the country, where the country is going in power sector, and what we are doing to take benefit of that opportunity. How are we getting ready to cater to this requirement? What are the new and innovative solutions that we are bringing so that we are very different than our competitors? It's not just leadership in action, but also leadership in thought, because if we do not have leadership in thought, how can we translate that into action? That's what is important and that's what we are doing. Presentation is as good as presentation. Seeing is believing, and we thought we'll take the opportunity to show you what we do, and how the power system is run, how difficult or how easy it is, and it's important for all of you to get a flavor of it. There are two parts of the displays that we have. One is we have a power system control. You will see that how the power is supplied in Mumbai city. If you are staying in Nariman Point or if you are staying in Dharavi or staying in Mahalakshmi Parel, how the flow of power happens in Mumbai city. If the power supply is not coming to your place, you know, this is the place where we know exactly how much it is going, in which grid, in which area, and if at all. There has been few instances earlier, 12th October and then last year again in this year in February. How, where it happened and how we restore it and how emergency services are restored first and then the. In those conditions, how the supply is managed. We also have a place where we will show you how our renewable power is monitored on a real-time basis. How we can see on real-time basis each of these plants, what is the wind speed over there, what is the solar intensity over there? What is the forecasting? How it will generate it? Is there any, we do real-time monitoring of the equipment, so if there's any condition-based monitoring or condition-based repair that needs to be carried out. We do also prediction of repair or replacement of equipment. That helps us to improve the quality of service that we provide in terms of the generation capability. That's where you would see that in last 2, 3 years, the availability of our plants have improved. Our solar plants, most of them are 100%. Wind are more than 99%. Which we earlier used to struggle because most of the time we were reactive. The third place that you would see is a NOC center, a network operation center for EV chargers. Sitting over here, you can know that whether the EV charger in Parliament Street or in Bangalore in MG Road or in Indira Nagar or airport, whether it is working or not. It is working both in terms of the electrical supply as well as in terms of the payment gateway that is there or not. That's the third. The fourth is we have a 24/7 monitoring of the power trading and what is the type of supply and demand, if we can, if there is an intraday requirement of power, how we can do. Apart from that, there are a few more displays. You can. There's an EV charger with a vehicle, so you can see for yourself how to charge. We always have doubts that it will become very complicated. Complicated thing. It's a very simple instrument. You just put it how the mobile app gives you all information that is required to charge. We have a very interesting thing on rooftop solar, on solar pumps, and then on the home automation. That's. Though we call it home automation, it's basically energy management services that we carry out. So how you can control from any place any of your equipments whether it is in your home or it is in office or it is in a factory. So how the energy management and how it can become. When we talk of all these, how we as a company are offering unified services. If you know based on your consumption pattern what is your energy requirement, then you can tie up the energy to meet that requirement rather than just not knowing that how much is otherwise what happens is huge amount of energy is available, but people use it for very few hours and then you have certain hours of more consumption and less consumption. That's what we will display today. There's also some display on the innovation work that we are doing through the Clean Energy International Incubation Centre that we have in Delhi and where we collaborate with number of institutions in India and outside India. I think the whole purpose of this is more to communicate, interact, and give you the experience of what we are doing. Presentation is there. I will quickly go through the presentation. I don't want to bore you with all the statistics. In fact, your reports are more intense in terms of the statistics that you provided. Many of the things you would see we have copied it from your presentation only. Put together many of the data points that you have given. What is important is to interact with us on how we are gearing up, and we call this Tata Power 2.0, that gearing up for next hundred years, how we are becoming making the organization resilient, how we are making it the supply of power reliable, how we are taking care of sustainability, how we are taking care of communities, how we are taking care of the environment. These are the very important part of it. How are we taking care of the customers. Electricity supply has always been monopolistic. Customer was never bothered. No one used to bother about the customer. People traditionally used to take half day leave to make the bill payment and things like that. That continues to be there in many places in the country. How we are now making it proactively reaching out to customers and making the whole experience a seamless experience. In fact, in ease of doing business, World Bank looked at two places in the country for seeing what are the parameters. One was North Delhi, where we were doing the distribution, and the other was South Mumbai. The whole experience we improved. Over a period of time from a rating, global rating of something like 142 or 144, we came down to 75, we came down to 56, and then right now I think we are 24 in the world, much better than U.S. and many of the other countries. How the whole experience of getting a new connection, enhancing the load, bill payment, how they can become seamless and, you don't have to go anywhere physically. You can do all these things online. How the whole application. Earlier, the application used to be a complicated process. We are supposed to only supply electricity. We made the whole process very, very simple. Just two documents. One application and one set of documents of proving they're bona fide, who is that person. Either a bank, in detail or any one information, even a Aadhaar card is good enough, that you get an electricity connection. You don't need to come with whole sets of documents and all that. The whole process has become very simple. That's where I think Tata Power is transitioning towards that, where customer is becoming very, very important. All our services that we are now going to do are customer-centric, and many of them are, of course, now non-regulated business. Let me start with the presentation. I'll quickly go through it, the presentation, but if you have any questions in between, you can ask me to stop and respond to them. Otherwise, Kasturi, we do share the copy of the presentation, so the copy of the presentation will definitely be shared with you and we can definitely thereafter discuss and respond to them. We are building the future Tata Power, Tata Power 2.0, and that's what we call ourselves. Of course, Kasturi gives a list of disclaimers like all of you give in your report in the end. Similarly, he's also learned to give disclaimers. What we see is that power sector in India is going through huge transformation. It's going through a huge increase in demand over a period of time. This year, consistently in the month of April and May, we had 200 GW of power requirement. Before COVID, we were somewhere around 180, 185. This year the... For days together we had 200 and it reached a peak of, I think, 209 GW. We expect this is the new norm. In fact, in the month of April, because the heat conditions were such high that the increase was nearly 15%-16%, unlike the previous years, where the increase only used to be 5-6%. You remember there was a crisis and coal crisis and imported coal and all sorts of things. What is important is this is the new norm. The Indian industry is doing great. The Indian commercial services are doing great. The economy has been improving, and there is a general wellbeing which is there, which is getting translated into energy consumption. There are more number of TVs in homes. There are more number of electronic gadgets at home. People are now consuming more of electricity, and that we need to. There are a whole lot of changes that has happened in the government in last one year. I was looking through the data point. More than 20 rules, regulations, laws, bylaws have been introduced by the government in last one year, whether it is about LPSC or RPO obligation or the electricity rules or how do we ensure open access and how do we ensure better availability of power? How do we bring discipline in payment among the DISCOMs, whether it is in terms of LC opening? Last week you saw the government of India said that those who do not pay and they are defaulting in payment, they put the restriction of buying power from the exchange. I think there are a whole lot of effort which is being made to bring a certain amount of discipline in the power sector. The Electricity Act amendment has also been put in the Parliament and hopefully. I was with the minister yesterday evening. He sounded very confident that in the winter session of Parliament, it should go through. There's a lot of effort that is being made that with the standing committee members, discussions happen. We have also through CII and other industry bodies, sought time with the standing committee to talk to them and tell them that how it will benefit, their states if they go through this process. A few things which is very critical in that, multiple suppliers of electricity. Of course, all of you are from Mumbai and all of you know that Mumbai has multiple suppliers. You have, in the south of Mumbai, BEST and Tata Power, and in north you have Adani and Tata Power. There are multiple suppliers. This is a unique because of a Supreme Court intervention that happened. Now the enabling provision is there in the Electricity Act that you can have multiple suppliers of electricity. That's a unique change that will happen. Also there are certain changes in the regulatory framework, certain changes in ensuring that payment is being made on time, and the ability of the load dispatch centers that if they can regulate supply of power if the payments have not been made or LCs have not been opened. Also, the regulatory system, there is now onus on the regulators that they need to revise the tariff within a certain period, and that's a duty that has been put in them. Otherwise, the regulators used to think that after God and judges, the regulators are also like them. They do no wrong. They see no wrong. Now the regulators will be under monitoring. If they do not perform their duties, they can be sacked. I think that's a big change. There are also certain other enabling provisions which have been done in terms of the ability of Ministry to make rules much often and, covering wide areas. I think all in all, it's a good amendment that is proposed, especially considering that the Act came nearly 20 years back, 2003. We'll have 20 years in 2023. If this change happens then, it will be a big move forward. Of course, it is not the ideal. We were wanting few more things, but you know that electricity is a concurrent subject, while the enactment of the laws and rules are by central government. The enforcement is done by the states and there is opposition from some of the states. They don't want to leave the control of. Of course, some of the states have the habit of giving everything free, so there's already lot of debate and discussion happening on that. We also have seen that the RPO obligation, which has been put now going from nearly 20-22% to 47% by 2030. If you don't do it, there is a penalty on that. That again will ensure that there's more and more of renewable penetration in the power supply. This is not only applicable for the state discoms, but also all bulk users of power, including industries and commercial establishment. There will be a lot of changes. These are not changes which is automatic. Many a times, there will be some litigations. People will go to the court, they will question it. Ultimately, what is right will happen. The name of the game is definitely patience. We have seen that over a period of time, things have evolved, but ultimately right things have happened and justice has been done wherever it is. Andhra can change the PPA, but ultimately the High Courts will come after them, hammer and tongs, and they will have to do it. So in the system, there are a lot of checks and balances, and I think we are moving to a stage where businesses will be done, the power sector business will be done in a very objective manner. This is very important if we need investment in this sector. It cannot be a scenario that discoms do not pay or we have all sorts of things happening in the sector and there's no discipline in terms of commercial or prudential business norms. That will definitely happen. Tariff revisions have to happen. Also arbit decisions cannot be taken. I think there are a whole lot of things which are happening which will make the sector much more viable going forward. These are again some of the changes, data points. Some instances there is huge, huge growth opportunity which is there. We are just tip of the iceberg in terms of the opportunities. Anywhere that you see, whether it is if we have to become 500 gigawatt of non-carbon, considering that we are today 160 gigawatt, there is huge opportunity that capacity additions have to take place. In every area, whether it is in rooftop, solar pump, EV, you name it, and utility scale, manufacturing, everywhere there is great opportunity for all of us to do. Of course, the prices and all that will reach a level where it will be competitive, but it will also has to be commercially viable and financially sustainable. We have seen many of these things, which the elephant they always say is the DISCOM in the room, their pathetic conditions needs to improve. I think that this is an area where they are being pushed. Now, DISCOMs' losses are getting added to the financial losses of the state governments. State governments financially are in very bad shape, and they will, sooner or later, have to move towards becoming commercially viable. Commercially viable does not mean that it has to be absolute privatization. Services can be privatized. The smart metering service can be privatized. The whole CRM services can be privatized. The whole network management can be privatized. But it need not only be that the privatization is the only solution for this. I think lot of structural change will happen in the power sector going forward, and especially in the distribution sector. Lot of regulatory push is there, and I shared with you some of those things. Government is trying to see to it that all these regulatory changes which are happening, the mechanisms are done in such a way that it becomes friendly to investment, friendly to any money that is coming into the business. It also helps in the growth of the business, because all said and done, India still is about 410 gigawatt, take or leave gigawatt here and there. We still have to grow nearly double of this by 2030. We'll definitely cross 800 gigawatt, and majority of it will be renewable. How do we prepare ourselves if you have to attract that sort of investment? That is only generation. Commensurating with generation will be the transmission assets which needs to be added, upgraded, changed. You know, all these equipments have a shelf life. Commensurate with that, the distribution system has to be upgraded, technology has to come into it. There is whole lot of work that will happen, and the regulatory environment will become more and more conducive. We have seen that the regulators, if you go with the new ideas, have supported. It is not that it has not been supported. Rooftop solar was nowhere there in 2015, I remember. We got a funding from USTDA at that time, and for the first time, we got a study done, from E3 of San Francisco too, that what should be the rooftops policy and how the incentive has to be given, whether it has to be on net metering or gross metering and all that. The states like Delhi and some of the other states were the first one off the block. We did a demand response again, and some of the states gave the approval for that. We did the battery storage solution. I think over a period of time, the regulatory environment also has changed. The regulators have also understood the benefits of these technologies, and I think those are definitely going to help us to get more investment in the sector. What it means is that Tata Power will move in each of these areas. Why do I say that it will move? Because we have been fortunate that many of these businesses are not acquired businesses. These are not helicopter droppings that we got into this business. We have learned this business. We have in our DNA this business which we have over a period of time. Most of the things, if you see, we were the first one. When you are the first one in India, the challenge is that you have to reinvent the wheel. Most of the things are not known to people, whether it is in terms of doing the 500 megawatt plant. No one knew how to do it. When we did the 800 megawatt plant, no one knew that, how a supercritical unit at 600-degree temperature and above, how do you need to control the temperature of that and the pressure of that and generate electricity. So many of these things we learned. When we did first time the SCADA system and distribution automation, no one in the country knew. Even the companies which come, they give you the box. It's a black box that they give you, and they say, "This is the SCADA, and now you do the collection of data from the grid, and you manage it." Most of the places in the country, the DISCOMs could not do that because they didn't have the understanding. I'll tell you that Government of India under R-APDRP had 72 states, cities which were identified for implementing the SCADA. Most of the places the SCADA came, the building was not ready. Where the building was ready, the SCADA was put over there, but they did not do the distribution automation. Most of the places, I have been in most of those places, ultimately from 72 it came to 59 cities. People were only playing computer games on that, including in Lutyens, Delhi, where NDMC was doing, because they never did the distribution automation. They never bought the AMC for those equipment. They never bought the software for those equipment. You have the state-of-the-art technology lying over there, but never implemented, never done. I can tell you that it has not been done in most of the places, in more than 90%. That's the technology. Similarly, when people do the IT billing solutions and all that, most of the places the IT solution is not implemented. It is just that and then computer. But there is no analytics, there is no ERP, there is no software that they have implemented which gives them and/or helps them in analyzing that how the billing is done. If suppose you have 50 offices of PWD or of irrigation department, and you want to give a search that which are the 50, where how much of consumption has taken place and how much of collection, you cannot do that. Most of the places, the IT system that has been implemented has not been done properly, and there's no data. The quality of data itself, so garbage in, garbage out. That's what happens. The challenge in most of the states is that the IT system has not been implemented. Tata Power, since we did ourselves, because we had no choice. There was no one who was doing the people, the best of the technology companies, they come and give you the box, and they say, "You implement it." We had to learn ourselves. It took us a lot of time, but over a period of time, we have learned. Having learned this, now we are offering this as a service, also using it for many of the other things that we do. Most of the things that you would see apps in these stalls today is inbuilt. We have more than 400 IT engineers. We inbuilt all this. This is not that we went to any of the IT companies, and they said that they will do it and all that. Because this is understanding of the operational technology and integrating with the information technology. This is what we understand and we did over a period of time, and that's where Tata Power 2.0 is a very different arrangement, where it is not just about supply of power, but it is supply of energy services and solutions. This is an important slide. From 5.5 GW, where we are, we'll become 20+ by 2027. Again, I want to tell you that it's not that we want to be number one, but we want to be a good player. We want to be a profitable player in this. We will not be very small, but we whatever we will do, it will be a very moderated growth. We will only bid where we're regulated 14%-15%. Our new businesses, we need to get minimum of that, otherwise why I should go and put money in that business. The money is always in short supply, so we will only put if it meets the minimum threshold returns that we are looking for ourselves. Similarly from the EPC business. The EPC right now is about 50/50. 50% is for in-house, our own development and 50% is. We are very selective now that we have scale. We don't go and bid for projects and take it from whether it is NTPC or NHPC or anyone, where we are not going to make the margin that we expected. It also gives us exposure. Why people ask me that, "Why do you do EPC?" It also gives us exposure. The first EPC that we did on floating solar. From someone else we could learn, or we are doing now the EPC with storage. We are also learning over there. It is giving us a scale to go and negotiate and learn and do things, which then we will implement and customize it to our requirement when we give our solution. Now we will definitely grow in this. But we will again be very careful in terms of the type of return. From our present capacity of about 500-odd MW of cell and 500 MW of module, we will add another 4 GW. The plant is under construction. Next year by July, the module plant will be ready, and by next November, we will have the cell plant which will be ready. Coming to rooftop solar, very small business. We started nearly 3-4 years back from a revenue of INR 50 crore. Last year, we closed with about 1,500 crore. Our target this year is to double it. In next five years, we will. This is more than a unicorn. We have inbuilt unicorns happening over there. No one will write about that Tata Power created so many unicorns, but this is one of the unicorns that we have created. Similarly, solar pumps, very small business. We used to do about INR 30 crore. Last year we did INR 700 crore. This year it will become at least 3-4 times more. This is also in line to become a unicorn in next five years. Charging stations, we are of course the biggest in the country right now with more than 60% market share. We have home chargers, nearly 20,000 home chargers and nearly 2,780 public chargers. We are also big in the fleet chargers as well as public transportation. Again, these are areas that we will grow very, very fast. We have the advantage because what is EV charging? EV charging is not just the dabba in which you provide the charging, but also the electrons that needs to flow into that, and also the customer experience. We're fortunate part of the Tata Group. We were able to develop a very good tool along with TCS. It took us a lot of time, a lot of iterations, challenges that how do you make a tool which can be used anywhere in the country and for any type of vehicle, any type of payment gateway. We developed that tool over a period of time. We have Tata Motors, which gives us the opportunity to set up these home chargers and public chargers which they utilize. Then we have Tata AutoComp, which helps us in providing us very good sophisticated chargers. I think the total Tata ecosystem is also helping us to take forward these solutions. This is about the opportunity, a huge opportunity, a huge amount of billing will come. People will say that in last one year it has not happened. It has not happened. There has been various reasons why it has not happened. The changes that has to happen in the DISCOMs, the changes that has to happen in the policy level. Let me tell you that when we talk of this number, this number is not only the utility scale, but also the industrial and commercial. A whole lot of and Gurinder and Shivram, who heads our rooftop business, every day we get large number of inquiries and offers are being made for industrial and commercial consumers because it's not just green energy, and it's not the RE100, but it's also economically and commercially viable to go for these solutions. The average tariff comes down drastically, and this tariff remains firm for 25 years. It is unlike coal-based or gas-based and all that, where the tariffs changes every year, depending upon the. This is firm until and unless the government imposes some tax on sun rays or on wind speed or something like that, it is going to be firm. I think that's the unique benefit of this. The second benefit of this is that it pays for itself. It is a earning member in your business, so it will generate electricity and pay for itself. The payback is much faster, and thereafter it is virtually free of cost. For all times to come, it gives you that benefit. It's a great opportunity in and for a country like India, where we have more than 300 days of sunshine. You go any part of India, you will have that. It's an opportunity for us to really make big in this. Utility scale, lot of opportunities are there, lot of bids will come, and bids will not be just pure vanilla solar or pure vanilla wind. Hybrid solutions will come. You need to again come with a hybrid solution which can be solar, wind, storage, hydro, demand response, demand side management. There are whole lot of combinations that can come. 24/7 reality will become a reality of providing renewable energy. These are some of the solutions that we will be working on. In fact, we have again developed an in-house tool which, depending upon the load of the customer, we can give you 24/7. Now we have tied up with some of the residential condos in Mumbai as also in some of the other cities. Some of the industries, including we are talking with TCS and Tata Motors and other, that we can give you 24/7 renewable power. You don't have to worry about. Of course the backup power will be there from the grid. Otherwise, in 99% cases you will get 24/7 renewable power from us. The software tool that we have developed will generate the outcome as to what is the capacity of solar and wind that we need to have, plus the hydro backup, so that we can meet your requirement. Of course, we also will do the energy management solutions. When we do all these things, we are now acquiring whole lot of land for ourselves. At any given time, 8,000-10,000 acres of land is under acquisition in different states. It is both for solar as well as for wind. It is also for utility scale as well as for group captive merchant plants. All sorts of solutions and combinations are being worked on to see that we are able to customize the requirement and meet the objective of providing affordable and full quantity of renewable power to the consumer. We again bid very, very cautiously. We don't want to have the winner's curse. We once had that, we don't want any more. We are not going to do harakiri on any bid going forward. We will be very conservative. Th e message to my team is always, we should not worry if we lose a bid, but we should never compromise on our returns. Returns is sacrosanct, come whatsoever. We are not doing kite flying. We are not trying to do financial engineering. We are not trying to do all sorts of exotic financing arrangements, this bullet payment, that bullet payment, nothing like that. Let's go the straight way. Let's do the right thing. We'll lose some bids, so what? We should do what is right and what, as a company, Tata Power should do. Our operations are very good. You will see, when you go there how we monitor. The results are demonstrating that how over a period of time we used to lose lot of money, whether it was the non-availability of the equipment, spares. Earlier, all these things were outsourced. The operation was outsourced and spares were outsourced. Now we do everything in-house because many of these people who were outsourced are bankrupt. They would not have enough manpower. They would not buy enough spares and keep, whether it is for solar or it is for wind. Now, most of the places we are doing ourselves, and we have moved away from the outsource model. We are also now operating these plants, not only to ensure that the plants, but even the evacuation arrangements are done. Now we work very closely with the DISCOMs to see that if they have to carry out any maintenance activities, they should carry out during the period when the generation is not taking place. In solar plants, the maintenance activities by the evacuation companies are done in the evening time and between evening and next morning. That's the type of arrangement that we have. Our operations has become absolutely outstanding, best in class, and I feel that going forward we will be the benchmark in the country for operating these plants. EPC is something that we of course work, lot of opportunities we'll do. Again, these are areas that we would be very closely monitoring, and the guiding factor is returns. No bid has to be taken or one where we are not getting returns. We are not going to just go on some assumption and all that. We'll only go and bid. We have seen in last one and a half years, sometimes experience makes you more, you get more wisdom that how the market has changed. I remember two years back, in fact four years back, it used to be $0.30-$0.31. It came down to about $0.18, and now has again gone back to $0.25-$0.26. If you go for imported, Indian sales, it is $0.34-$0.35. So that's the price. $0.25-$0.26 is without BCD. If you add BCD, it becomes $0.34-$0.35. So that's the type of change that has happened, and we need to be very, very cautious. We should not get carried away many a times. You have seen that in last so many years, people have won bids. In last three years, 60 GW of bids have been won. 10 has been implemented, 10 are under implementation, 10-15 are in. The balance, I'm not very sure. When the people tell you that I have so many in under construction or so many, we should take it with a pinch of salt that whether they will really see light of the day or not, because those are not viable. Most of them may not happen. I was with the minister also yesterday, and we were discussing about this, that what needs to be done. Is it that the BCD has to be deferred or what? Because these projects will not happen. We should not be kidding ourselves that these 20, 30 gigawatt or 40 gigawatt of projects which have not happened will get implemented. Again, for us, domestic manufacturing is very important. We are going for cell and modules. The plant construction work is going on. We are arranging the financing for it, both from Indian and foreign lenders, banks. We are in discussion with them. I think this will be again one of the good plants. Why do I say this will be a good plant? Again, the technology of cell manufacturing is a very complex technology. It is not something which is very simple for anyone to set up a cell manufacturing and reach the level of efficiency that today we implemented the expansion project during COVID period. No one came to us. None of the experts came to us who had supplied the equipments. None of the German and the Chinese came. We still are today operating at the highest efficiency of 22.6%. None of the Indian other manufacturers have even reached 22+. They are all less than 22% efficiency. Many a times people say that I will bring this technology. Technologies are not that you get in Crawford Market or you get in Nariman Point, in the lanes of Nariman Point. These are technologies are over a period of time acquired. The DNA has to be acquired. You have to learn this technology. While a lot of people have very aggressive plans and they have also gone for polysilicon and all that, I'm not very sure whether it is something which is possible in a short period of time. Even in a long period of time, they would be able to achieve it. We will definitely work on improving our margins. Now that we have scale, we have ability to manage this much better. Our own engineering strength has improved, our sourcing strength has improved, supply chain has improved, and we'll be able to do that. Rooftop, the big thing that we have, is one of the focus areas. We have now channel partners all over the country. Not only that, we have now the sales team. The feet on the ground are there. We have a very focused team. We are doing now a lot of work on branding. We never used to do branding. But now we are doing a lot of branding, and you would have seen, we are now Sustainable is Attainable through our platform. We are doing it through CNBC. You will see more of us in the media, and it will drive all our business. It is not just rooftop, but it will talk about our EV, it will talk about our solar pumps, it will talk about our distribution business, because these are all integrated solutions. These are not stand-alone solutions. Consumer is interested in energy. They are not interested how you bring it, how you manage it, and all that. The back end of it is an energy solution that companies like Tata Power have to develop. We are growing very, very fast in this. Not many of you would be aware that we do about 500 MW of rooftop solar every year, and this will increase to 1 GW and will increase to 2 GW in five years. It's a huge capacity add. Everyone is so carried away by the utility scale. 1 GW, 2 GW. Rooftop, 3 kW, 5 kW, 10 kW. That. So that's the type of numbers that will happen going forward. Huge amount of rooftop projects will come up and the whole supply chain, the channel partners, all of them will be working with us. We already have developed that in last three years. We already have what about 335 plus 63, so 400, and by the end of the year, we'll be 500 plus channel partners. That's the type of reach that we have. Most of them are now doing INR 1 crore plus business. It's a huge amount of work that is happening. Solar pumps, again, this was an area that we got into massively in last 3, 4 years. We've done the investment. Now we do the branding also. The pump is a high efficiency pump that we have for different ratings, whether it is 3 HP, 5 HP, 7.5, 10 HP. We get it branded under Tata Power. Also, the rooftop solar solutions. We are now working with the farmers on how they can be aggregators of supplying water to other farmers. You need not have every farmer having a solar pump. You can have a farmer with a solar pump in a 3 km or 5 km radius, and they can supply water to all the other farmers in the nearby area. Similarly, they are now tying up. We're helping them to tie up with some of the other commercial establishments, shops, atta chakkis and things like that in the villages, so that the whole economic model of the solar pump improves and this farmer again becomes a beneficiary of it in terms of certainty of supply as well as in terms of making money from supply of electricity. A lot of work that we are doing and all these are helping us to get a huge amount of traction. We are virtually spread in most of the villages in Northern India and in south-central part of India. We are now expanding in western and southern part of India also. The solutions that we have got are unique solutions, and we do expect that going forward, they will be really differentiators for us. Of course, India has great opportunity. We have nearly 3 crore pump sets in the country, out of which 90 lakh are DG set pump sets. Only 3 lakh were solar pumps. The KUSUM program talks of 40 lakh to be solarized. Anyone who is using a DG pump set will definitely like to. 90 lakh is the minimum market, if not more. EV chargers, again, I shared with you that we do EV charging for home chargers, we do for public chargers, and we also do for fleet owners and public transport chargers. This is again about partnerships. We have partnerships with all types of customers, all type of institutions, whether it is petrol pumps, petrol companies, oil companies, it is people like Starbucks and Coffee Day and others. Any of these type of partners who have fronts where they can provide a space where the chargers can be put, we tie up with them. We are also tying up with institutions like banks and others, where each of their branches, wherever they have parking space, they will provide a space. Airports, ports, railway stations, metro stations, all those are areas where they are giving us the opportunity to put these chargers. Of course, once the more number of electric vehicles comes in the market, the penetration and the usage will go up over a period of time. This is a project Kashmir to Kanyakumari. Every 150 kilometers, we will have chargers on both sides of the road. We are working on that, and hopefully next two years we'll be able to implement it. There's also one on east to west from Guwahati to Bikaner and to Surat. In each of these spaces, you see we are becoming number one, whether in utility space, EPC that we of course in the renewable capacity. I mentioned to you that a lot of people have huge projects in pipeline. Let's wait and see these things which we have to have patience to see whether they really see light of the day. We are of course doing rooftop solar pumps and EV. Each of these five areas which is part of our renewable platform we will be virtually number one in all except for the utility scale. We will be possibly three or four. We want to be cautious over there. We don't want to go and just bid out and win projects. The INR 2 is a dangerous. I remember 2015, 2016 there was a company, U.S. company which did it for INR 2.40 or. It never happened, and the company went bust. INR 2, INR 1.99. You will possibly see something like that happening in future also. We have aspirations to grow from where we are. Our EPC revenue will definitely grow because our EPC revenue is 50% in-house and 50% outside, which is a very easy thing, not a very difficult target. If I would have taken a 10x target, it would have been very difficult, but I think 3x is a conservative target. We want to do good projects. We just don't want to do projects just for the heck of it. At the end of the day, if we are not making money in EPC, then there's no point in doing. We cannot do charity on EPC for others. Similarly, our renewable capacity will grow. I mentioned to you from 5 to 20 GW. Again, we will be very calibrated in our growth. Our rooftop will grow. This is a big area. Once with the proper branding and the supply chain and our channel partners in more than 300-odd cities, 400-odd cities, we'll be Ghar Ghar Ujala, Ghar Ghar Tata Power Solar. That's the messaging that will happen. Again, solar pumps will be a big thing. We feel very strongly. We also do a project on microgrids, which is not part of the platform, but we strongly believe that it is also our duty to reach out to the people under the universal access of energy. There has been lot of talk about energy poverty and how we can work on that. What we are trying to do over here in the country is make them financially sustainable. These are not going to be gratis project or on charity, but these have to be commercially viable. We are not very far from that. We possibly in next one year, we'll have 100% financially viable solution without any support, without any gratis, without any charity from anyone. If we crack that, then it's a big opportunity globally. Whole of Sub-Saharan Africa, the 49 countries over there where nearly 1 billion people do not have access, we can give them a good solution. Not that we will go and implement. We'll give them the solution. I don't want you to consider that we are going to go and implement those over there, but we'll have some partners to whom we will supply the solutions to implement. Let me come to distribution. Again, a lot of programs are there of the government, and last 20 years, you must have heard different names, RAPDRP, R-APDRP, Part One, Part Two, Deen Dayal Upadhyaya, Rajiv Gandhi Grameen Vidyutikaran Yojana, and IPDS, this, that. But sum and substance is that distribution companies in India are in very bad shape. Seeing is believing. You go to most of the places, you can still smell your way to the toilets in their offices. You would still believe that area of 150,000 square kilometers. Just to give you an idea, Mumbai is 1,500 square kilometers. Delhi is 1,500 square kilometers. We are talking of 150,000 square kilometers in which the work has to be done. 64,000 villages. In a state where the number of meters which are not working, out of 9 million customers was nearly 2 million customers. Two million meters. You have to do. There were large number of customers who were ghost customers. It is in that range. Their data point is terrible. How do you go? ERP, URP. Quarterly results. We went and did. It's a matter of shame that many of these DISCOMs bought equipment, transformers with smart meters, AMR meters INR 100 crore, INR 150 crore के ऐसे ही junk में पड़े हुए हैं बाहर never used and this is not only, I am talking about Odisha. आपको मैं 8-10 states ले जा के दिखा सकता हूँ जहाँ पे ये condition है. In some of the other states also I have gone and seen under RAPDRP खरीद लिया गया but it is lying in the junkyard never used and then scrap कर दिया गया. That's the carelessness level which is there under those conditions we have gone and done this. It was a herculean task. Sanjay and we were always discussing की करना चाहिए चार एक साथ कि नहीं are we getting very greedy it was very tough. दो करते हैं हम लोग ने शुरू में bid भी किया था दो में, फिर तीन में किया। Finally we ended up doing all. Fortunately, things have now fallen in line. A lot of improvements have taken place. Whether it is in terms of reliability, customer service, IT services, financial everything has fallen in line. कोई IT system नहीं था। कोई ERP नहीं था। In fact, the first ERP we implemented I remember in 71 days the ERP was implemented from. We took over on first of June. In 71 days, the ERP was implemented in nearly 122 the CRM was implemented at least for HT customers and EHT customers. A lot of things that we did and we learnt over there. Our ability now, so if today someone tells me कि आप जा के इस state में कर लो and there are some states which are very difficult, so I'm not worried. I can go and, like earlier in metro cities, we could do it, like in Delhi we did it, Mumbai we did it and जितना भी tough metro city हो मतलब Delhi से ज्यादा tough नहीं हो सकता है. मतलब Delhi में तो चोरी is an art. मतलब कैसे चोरी करना है. मतलब लोगों को जा के सीखना चाहिए वहां के Delhi के consumers से. हम लोग ने वो सब संभाल लिया. हमारे से चोरी करके कोई नहीं कर सकता, that art we now know better than and similarly how do you go and do it in a urban, in a semi-urban and rural area that we have now picked up. How do you reach out to those 64,000 villages? How do you reach out to those consumers who are in far-flung areas and all that? How do you reach out to consumers where it is Naxalite infested? Malkangiri is a Naxalite infested तो आप उसको जा के बोलिएगा पैसा दो तो you know what will happen. Those are the type of things that we have learnt and this is baptism by fire. ये कोई किताब में कोई ये बोल दे कि मैं acquire कर लूंगा company और उससे कर लूंगा। ये सब नहीं कोई। मतलब you have to go and learn and do it in the field and that's where Tata Power is uniquely. Once this multiple license and all that come, we will be in. We have already identified 50 cities in which we will be there. Sanjay and team has already worked. Which are the first 50 cities we'll go and then the next 50 cities and all that. That's a service that we can provide. I think we are very well poised to really take the benefit of this opportunity. These are all data points आपको दे देंगे। Sum and substance is कि distribution यदि कोई देश में सही तरीके से मतलब एकदम बुरे हाल का distribution को सुधार ला सकता है. Whether it is urban or a mix of urban and semi-urban, rural, whatever is there, we can do that. We've learnt it. We've learnt it the difficult way. We have now very good solutions, so I'm not worried. Sometimes people say कि आपको हम rural area भी दे देंगे तो क्या होगा? मैंने कहा कुछ नहीं होगा। आप दे दीजिए हम आप we want the change. Maharashtra में कभी-कभी discussion होता रहता है कि आप ये सब area में विदर्भ में नहीं कर सकते। बोला आप दे के तो देखिए ना, हम करके दिखा देंगे जो आप बोल रहे हैं, और वही employees हमने — we took 11,000 employees, same employees — और उन्हीं के साथ हमने change किया है। उन्हीं को, जो लोग कभी computer use नहीं किए थे, उनको हमने सिखाया कि कैसे use करना है, and now they do everything. It's a question of enabling people. In Balasore, which is North Odisha, चोरी तो सभी जगह होता है देश में। वहां पे जो enforcement team है, वो is headed by a lady over there, and she used to go and do raids on her scooter. बोली कि पहले हम लोग कोई नहीं जाता था हमारे साथ, now she goes with the full team. एक एक दिन में 10-10 megawatt का वो चोरी पकड़ के ले आती है. That's the capability was there. They were not empowered. That's the change that has happened when we took over. Now all these people are energized and we are seeing the results. आप देख लीजिए results how good it has happened. Sometimes we are told कि सचमुच ही है. मतलब you need to pinch yourself and see that सचमुच इतना हो गया है कि are we not able to we are missing the point. I think quarter after quarter we are seeing improvement month after month. The collection efficiency and things have improved drastically as also the network quality of service. Everything has improved drastically over a period of time. In fact, last year, jo cyclone Yaas aya tha, they expected ki do-teen mahina to, in view of the villages and all that, is not nahi rahega. Kuch jagah hafta, das din, pandrah din. Hum log ne 48 hours mein 90% of the places we did, and 72 hours we did 100% of the places. We had mobilized material, men, everyone was there, tractors, and quickly we could restore the supply over there. This is what we have done in Odisha. A lot of initiatives, a lot of action. Some instances, it has improved drastically, and it will keep on improving. We are in some places just little more than a year. North Odisha, we took over only on first of April last year. We have just completed one year. Some places, little more than a year, but our performance has been phenomenal over there. We also, because over a period of time, we learnt all these things, we are now gearing up that, you know, India has gone in a big way, that we will do smart metering. Now, smart metering is not just metering, but it's the head end, the data analytics, the meter data management, and the whole SCADA system and the GIS and all that. So this is a service that we propose to provide, once the full implementation of the smart metering program takes place. This is going to be fairly large in terms. Again, transmission is an area that we lost in between. We did not bid for projects in the last decade. We were the first one actually in the country to have a cross-country transmission line from Bhutan to Delhi, but somehow we did not do subsequent bidding. We have fortunately now won two bids, the Isolux Corsán and the NRSS, and we are now going to bid more. We of course do a lot of transmission work in Mumbai. A huge amount of capacity additions have taken place, replacement and new lines have been done in Mumbai every year. In fact, we are now doing something like INR 500 crores of investment in the Mumbai transmission system. Outside Mumbai, we had not done. This will give us an opportunity. This will also give us an opportunity to leapfrog into 765 kV lines. The 765 kV line in Isolux is the first time that we will be implementing. When we do all these things, for us, we need to do everything as a responsible corporate citizen. We don't do like many of the other people who are coming and doing this because they want to get a good valuation and sell and go away. This is our business. We'll be here today, we'll be here 100 years hence. We want to do things which makes us proud and makes the country proud and the citizens proud. Environmental leadership is something that is very much embedded. Everything that we do has to pass muster on. One is the customer connect, the other is community connect, and the third is the environment connect. This is something that we will work very closely. We are moving. We've already shared with you that how over a period of time, we will move, and have more of, renewable, clean portfolio, from our present 34% will become more than 75% by 2030, and of course, 100% by 2045. Our T&D business will grow much faster. It has a revenue of about INR 27,000 crore now, with the 12.3 million customers, will become 40 million customers, and, will have a revenue of nearly INR 60,000 crore. More than what Tata Power revenue will be this year, or maybe around the same time, around the same number. Rooftop and our solar pumps and all that, they will be multiple times unicorns going forward in next five years. It is about leadership of Tata Power, that's how we have leadership which is very calibrated, which is of responsibility and of technology and innovation. Touch points will be technology and innovation in everything that we do. This is how the capital employed. I'm sure you all will be interested in seeing this. The sting is in the tail. Yes, we will employ a lot of capital, but the employment of capital will primarily be focused on renewables. We will have some investment in transmission and distribution. Both of them do not require the type of investment that is required in a renewable business, especially the large utility scale. We expect that whatever investment we'll do will get a very attractive return for us. This is the type of revenue that you will have. We've already shown that how from where we were sort of jogging whole of the 2010 decade of less than INR 30,000 crore. Last year we have done INR 42,000 crore, and this year, of course, will be more than that. In five years will be 3x of this. TMD itself will be INR 60,000 crore. So you can imagine the type of growth that we are looking at. Our PAT will also grow. Again, we were sort of jogging in the INR 1,000 crore range, 1,200, 1,400. We crossed the 2,000 hump, and this year will be much better than that. Returns on both ROCE and ROE will be phenomenal. We hopefully are back on track in terms of the type of returns that we will bring on our businesses. Similarly, we'll be very conscious about the debt and how our debt will be controlled in spite of the growth that we are looking at. This is what is our objective. I come to the end of the presentation. We have all my senior colleagues over here who will respond to all your questions. Kasturi. Yeah. Yes. For a long time. I thought, I have made the presentation, so answers will be given by others. I think we'll have. Okay. You can just. Yeah. May I request everybody to take their seats? Thank you. I think after this intense and passionate presentation which the MD made. As he mentioned, that's a detailed presentation, and so a lot of questions may have already been answered. As we know, all of you will still have questions. May I request MD, CFO, Sanjay Banga, Vijay Namjoshi, and Gurinder to take on the dais to answer some of the questions which our friends will have. Whoever has a question, may you please raise their hand and then maybe introduce yourselves and then ask the questions. Mohit has always wanted to have the first question. Mohit is the one who always has the first question. I show up to every quarterly analyst call maybe. Yes. Okay, we'll give him the privilege of Yeah. Thank you for the detailed presentation. My first question is on the capital requirement. How do you think about capital requirement for growing this, especially the green piece of business over the next medium term? And do you think we need to raise capital at some point of time? And how do you think about doing an IPO or some kind of, you know, capital or dilution in the green businesses given the large plan? Right now we have gone and collected INR 4,000 crore, which we feel is good for at least FY 2023 and FY 2024. Once we see how the traction on the renewable platform is there, we will then possibly decide at that stage what needs to be done. We of course keep on examining opportunities, whether it is more of a dilution in the renewable platform or anywhere else that we can arrange. I only want to tell you that this will not be a showstopper or a deterrent for growth. You have seen that nearly one and a half years back, we went for a pref capital from the promoters also. If money is required for growth, that will come. Now, options are very many. Whether we... In fact, initially we thought that, instead of four, we might get INR 6,000 crore and all that. Maybe at some stage we can look at further diluting it. At this stage it is not required, so let's first go and spend this money. If I don't spend this money and then I start talking about fresh infusion, it will not meet the eye of any of the investors. Let's first go and do that. Once we have used this money, then we can definitely look at the options. This is something that we keep on. The finance team continues to keep on examining the market opportunity, and we'll definitely do it at the right time. Secondly on this, sir, on the capital side of business, or let's say the acquisition side, we haven't done much in the recent past, right? While our competitors have, you know, have gone and said, they're generating more capital just for the group companies which have enlarged their cap, enlarged their pipeline. While we haven't done anything similar for Tata Steel or other group companies in a very sizable number, and we also are not very active in acquisitions. Given that, you know, the bidding is very competitive, don't you think it's better to acquire assets which are available cheaply or aggregate asset, you know, across the country and make a sizable play on especially on the green side? We did do the acquisition. We did the Prayagraj acquisition, and it has turned around. It has done very well, much more than our expectation. We did the Odisha acquisition for DISCOMs in one go. We have done now recently the acquisition in transmission. Now, many of the projects, and especially the green projects, even if some of them give me at face value or give me free also, I would not be keen to take them. Many of them are pathetic. Good luck to people who have taken it. Not that all acquisitions are good acquisitions. We need to be careful. People do a lot of kite flying. I mentioned to you that they'll say, "I have a pipeline of 5 gigawatt." When you get into it, you realize this 5 gigawatt will become a winner's curse. So I would not like to look at many of these investment opportunities because they're not meeting our requirement. If they are distressed assets, if they come in the market, which will happen in the next few years, many of these green assets will become distressed, then we will take it. Captive sales. Captive, piece of business. Beg your pardon? Which captive? Captive, say, from the group companies. Do you think there are large opportunity which will- We have already done something like 250 MW. Whether it is Tata Steel, Tata Motors. Yesterday only we got another 7.5 MW of Tata Motors, and we've done a carport in Pune for Tata Motors for 15 MW. There's nearly 200-250 MW of projects. Tata Steel we are implementing now, 15 MW. Whole lot of projects are going on within the Tata Group. Now we are offering them 24/7 renewable solutions. Even for their electronics factory or the new factories that they will be setting up, all of them will go for clean energy solutions. There is a huge opportunity, and we are working on all those projects to see that in next few years they all transition to green energy. Sir, will we be the exclusive partner for them to meet their RPO obligations? Absolutely. No, you know that we have a platform with Tata Steel, which is known as IEL, where we now all new capacities for Tata Steel is coming through that. Similarly, Tata Chemicals, we are in the process of discussing with them that how we can have a similar platform arrangement. We'll definitely be working with all the companies. Now that the consolidation is happening in a much larger way, and I mentioned about the EV, how we are working across companies. Similarly, in all the future power requirement, especially green power requirement, we will be exclusively working with all of them. After CGPL, sir, of course, we haven't touched the coal side of business. So- How do you think about CGPL and Indonesian, you know, coal business over next few years? The Indonesian coal business is doing very good. The license got renewed, and under the new terms, the plant is operating. The prices internationally are very good prices. It will make good profit in the coming years. At least for next 12-18 months, we expect the prices will remain in the similar sort of range. We expect good returns from our investment over there. We have also earlier mentioned that at some stage we will divest. Now, what will be that stage is depending upon what sort of valuation we get and what sort of opportunity we are seeing in terms of divesting. We will definitely look at it at the right time. We should not be selling cheap at this stage or at any stage. That's an area that we will consider. Secondly, our CGPL right now it is operating under Section 11, where we are getting a full passthrough of tariff of coal cost. We expect some resolution to happen. We are in final 1 or 2 points. It's not that there's huge amount. It's not about the original PPA. It's talking about what is the arrangement which is acceptable to both the sides. Somewhere in between the original PPA and the full passthrough of cost, some arrangement will come somewhere in between, which will be definitely much better than what we were earlier. You say new PPA. Do we have the larger, you know, states on board, especially Maharashtra and Gujarat? Larger? Larger states, larger offtake. The states which are larger offtaker of the CGPL, Gujarat and Maharashtra, are they on board? What has been agreed is that once we decide with Gujarat, the other states will also follow. Gujarat has been given the mandate by Ministry of Power that you finalize this arrangement, and once whatever you decide, the others will follow on that. Thank you. Best of luck. Thank you. This is Rohit from Antique. My first question has more to do with the slide where you showed 4x jumping the net profit by FY 2027. What is the coal's profitability in that jump that you have assumed? The contribution of coal profit through joint ventures that comes through, how much is that number being plugged in x of coal, what will be that number looking like? Coal generation or the coal. The coal Indonesia part. Indonesia. The details, Kasturi will be able to share with you that what is the profit that has been considered in. Can I answer that? Yeah, sure. I think, as Praveer Sinha already mentioned, we do expect the coal prices to be higher for a year or two, but what we see is a like for like comparison in terms of a real improvement in the margins and the ROE profile. It's kind of coming through more efficiencies, larger scales of operations, and a better capital allocation mix. Sure. My second question is on the storage-based model that you showed in the RTC part, in Renewables 2.0 that you identify. How do you foresee the levelized cost of the storage with tariff going down? I mean, what will be that number looking like maybe five years down the line? We are definitely looking at sub-5 INR in terms of storage. We are not looking at very high prices. That's why, again, we have to be very calibrated in the type of storage solutions that we are talking, and whether it is the pumped storage or it is the electrical storage through batteries. We are ourselves working. In fact, someone did ask me in the morning that, "Are you doing pumped storage?" We are doing pumped storage. As we speak, our pumped storage project in Bhira is under implementation, and we have plans to further expand that. The first phase will get implemented by next year, October, December, and the second phase, of course, will happen by 2024, 2025. Pumped storage we are doing there. The seco nd one will be a much bigger capacity. We will be doing a pumped storage in Bhivpuri. The feasibility study is under discussion. Similarly, we are in discussion with some of the other state hydro plants, if we can do the pumped storage. We don't want to go and set up a greenfield pumped storage project and all that. In the existing hydro projects which have reservoirs and have pondage for water, we'll be doing the pumped storage. What about the battery part? I mean, Battery part also, I mentioned to you that we are doing now battery storage project for SECI and others in Ladakh and Chhattisgarh. We've done a 10 MW battery storage project in Delhi. We will definitely be doing some more battery projects on our own when the bids happen. That will definitely happen as a part of our 24/7 offering of renewable power. Sure. My final question is on the cell and module manufacturing. The one that you identified, 4.6 GW, does it include that you have an integrated plan of maybe doing polysilicon plus ingots wafers, or are you purely looking at cell importing ingots and wafers from somewhere else? Yeah. We are right now only looking at cell and module. We do not feel that today the technology is available of a scale that we would like to have the polysilicon. That's the reality. You can do your own research and figure out whether the polysilicon technology is available for of the scale that we require in our country and of the quality that we require in the country for manufacturing electronic-grade. Right now we are not going into that. If suppose we are able to access that sort of technology, and we have a partner who will bring that sort of technology, then we can possibly examine. Right now we will import wafers from wherever we can get, and there's no duty on wafers at present. Sure. Thank you. Yeah. Hi, good morning, and thank you so much for a great presentation. In your presentation, you talked a lot about the services part of the business as well. What proportion of the revenue or EBITDA is currently coming from services, and where do you see it going in next five years? I think, it's a very, very small part in terms of services. It's kind of, I think close to about INR 30-40 crore that we're doing right now, but the slide says that there's a potential to go up to INR 900 crore by 2027. Yeah. Right? That's the potential. We're talking more about the potential right now, rather than what we have right now. You know, with all the services put together, there is a lot of potential. MD did mention about, you know, solutions on smart metering and whatnot. Those avenues are opening up for us, and we are very keenly observing that space. I'm very sure, you know, we think that we'll have a good potential going forward there. Example of smart metering, would you still expect INR 900 crore kind of number, or is smart metering the bulk of the services revenue? It's a combination of all the services that we'll have across, and it's largely sitting for the transmission and distribution businesses that we have. Right at the moment, it's small, but the potential is quite big. I think a lot of opportunities are opening up, both in terms of regulations, policy framework, and it'll bring in a lot of opportunities for us. Right. Thank you. My second question is on the, you know, capital allocation within the green business. What kind of debt/equity mix do you intend to go with, given that most of your peers are upwards of 70%. Would you also go down the same path, or are you trying to be more equity heavy? I think we'll have a twin policy structure here. At the Tata Power level, as you seen in the presentation itself, we do not want to have a debt equity beyond 2, right? For an infrastructure company to kind of still deliver 2 is an incredible task. Within those clusters, and especially the green cluster, as I alluded, we're kind of looking at about 3x over there, which would mean that, you know, at a regular interval, we'll have to flip assets and do whatever in order to raise also equity, in order to keep our debt leverage at a very controllable level. We do not want to get into a game of 9x, 10x, and then be reported subsequently by some, you know, you know, research papers saying that the company is over-leveraged and there's a bubble setting. We are not in that game. Definitely not more than, Yes. Seventy-five/twenty-five. Yeah. Definitely no way. Okay. On your acquisitions, you'll probably do some acquisitions. You also alluded that there'll be opportunities in future on the renewable side. Would that happen under the Resurgent platform or would it happen directly with Tata Power? All the green acquisitions will happen on the renewable platform. Resurgent platform, we had set up for only conventional generation and transmission. Whatever was the fund amount has been fully used now because we recently went for the transmission projects. It has no more money now on its own unless the promoters again go and want to invest further. At present, that fund is closed and Yeah. Renewable will be through the platform. It will not be through any other. Okay. Understood. The last one is on the cell and module plant which you are setting up. Will you also be eligible for the PLI benefit or because you started earlier, you will miss out on that benefit? The new PLI has not come. Yeah. As per the government notification, any plant which has been ordered after first November 2021, will be eligible for the PLI benefit. Let's see when it comes out and when we bid for it and whether we'll get it. Prima facie, the eligibility is first November 2021, and I think we are eligible for that. On the cell side, you talked about the PERC technology, but future technologies are likely to be TOPCon and then maybe HJT. Would it be, you know, easy to convert the plant to those technologies or would you need substantial CapEx there? Right now we are using the TOPCon. Okay. HJT is still not right, still under development in a lot of places. These have a shelf life of about 5-6 years. Maybe by the time the HJT develops in 5-6 years, we'll possibly. These are lines that you need to do the replacement. Earlier, we used to do the multi, now we have gone for mono. Once HJT comes, we'll put in fresh line for that. The new line, you said, is going to be TOPCon. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. That's all. Hi, I'm Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. My sincere compliments on your presentation, and it really comes across how difficult it is to turn around, you know, a distribution area as big as Odisha. We see that the AT&C loss numbers are actually coming off quite fast. My compliments. Our job is a lot easier working on the Excel sheet and with all the projections that you've given us for the next five years. On ROE and ROCE, when you say that you want to take your ROEs to over 13%, ROCE between 11-11% plus, most of your capital, incremental capital allocation is in green. If you could help us disaggregate the ROE and ROCE aspiration. Specifically in green, there is utility scale solar, rooftop solar, pumps, certain element of allocation to EVs and microgrids. If we could take each of these, we know there has been a bit of experience over the last few quarters. Margins have been hit for various reasons. I would like to understand that over a 4-5 years timeframe, what is your disaggregated ROE, ROCE strategy for these businesses? Specifically, the understanding utility scale solar, when you develop these projects, it's more of a IRR concept. It's not really ROE that one should be actually tracking. That's really my first question. We know you've run T&D for 100 years, we know what, you know, ROEs you are able to deliver there. In terms of the threshold level that you kept saying, you know, if you could spell out your threshold level exactly, you know, what does that threshold really mean for you in terms of returns? Yeah. As you rightly mentioned that in renewable it is not the ROE, but it is the IRR. Our IRR is, the threshold is nothing less than what we get in a regulated business. You would say 13%+ equity IRR? Yeah, mid-teens, I would say. Anything less than that, there's no point in. We can then do only transmission and distribution. Why I should go and do anything which will give me anything less? That's where. The breakup and all that, I don't know. You have details. I think the answer lies in your query itself. If on the green portfolio you're moving from 30%-34% to almost, you know, carbon neutral by 2024, and by 2030, almost 75%+. If the green business, we are looking at a mid-teen kind of IRR, and with the capital allocation automatically in a simple equation, the ROE and the return on capital have to move in. But if you want little more breakup, we can always share with you. If you see the pie right now, right, of course, the major contribution has to come from the green business. The other businesses, when you're talking about EV charging segment and things, in the overall scheme of things will be very small, right? Even if the ROE on those particular subclusters or sub-segment move by a small percentage here and there, it'll not really matter. The big thing that I think it will track as a pecking order, number one is the IRR that we get on the green energy business, right? Second, of course, we have a very established transmission and distribution business, where we're also getting a very steady IRR. Then comes generation. While we have very clearly said that, generation is not a place that we will be investing further, but believe it or not, still a steady cash flow business, barring one of the businesses that we're talking about. This is a question of discussion on Mundra every time, but that is in a way compensated through our coal mines, right? Remaining other businesses you put together in one bucket. For timing, you could say it's more experimental and will keep on growing, right? Even if I have to show you now a five-page breakdown, the sum is the summary would be the same. I would like to probe a bit more here. Sure, sure. Tata Power Solar Systems Limited, you know, where if I combine all the unicorns, it's really becoming a big business, because you have aspirations of going to INR 10,000 crore plus individually across rooftop solar pumps. We understand there are certain working capital challenges associated with working with the government, with the private sector players. Could you sort of tell us where you are in terms of individually for these businesses, in terms of, say, your ROCEs? Because the profit margins are quite compressed at this point, in fact negative in the last quarter, which I'm sure will improve. Over the next couple of years, if not five years, you know, because we want to track it over a one-year, two-year perspective also, what is a reasonable expectation individually across rooftop solar pumps and utility scale EPC, in terms of ROE and ROCE, and what is holding back? Nothing is holding back. Let's start with reverse order. Because if you see the trend in the already presented right, we look at 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, on both fronts, on ROE and ROCE, you already have 250-300 basis points improvement coming in, right? You already have a trend that is there. I think, let's say that the plane is about to take off now, because in 2022, you're seeing that the PAT numbers, which is almost double than the previous year. You've seen the first quarter PAT, you can in a way decode. If you're really looking at much more granular details, we can absolutely provide. The answer again will be the same. Your question specifically on TPSSL, I think that's on the EPC businesses, and this has been a question from many other analysts as well. Let's try and decode it. If you look at the previous years of EPC businesses and the contribution on the overall PAT margins is below even 5%, right? Let's say for hypothetical reasons, the EPC margin doesn't stand out the way we're looking at. Will it really change the trajectory? The answer is absolutely no, right? I think we always keep on telling that we are the only company which are present across many verticals, and as a result, we have a very high resilience. Unlike a pure-play renewable businesses where, you know, because of the vagaries on commodity cell module prices, they've taken big hits. Yes, of course we will also be impacted, but I think, we'll have to look at the larger, pie, and I don't think that is something that should be concerning. Absolutely we can share those details. Ma'am, many of these places, we need to look at it that whether it was rooftop or solar pumps, we started from a very low base, and we had to create the market. It has taken us time to create the market. The channel partners, how do you do the incentivization? This is the initial investment that we are making. Actually, the very fact that we made profit should not have happened in the first two, three years. We should have any consumer good, a fast moving consumer good or any of these products would have had initial loss. Similarly, if you see in our distribution business, when we had bid, we had said first three years will be loss. We did not have loss. We have made some profit. We will continue to, but possibly in next two years, the full benefit of the changes that we have done will start coming. Our profit all of a sudden after two years will zoom because all these legacy issues will be behind us and we'll be in a much better condition. Also when we talk of coal and CGPL, we are always negative. Between coal and CGPL, we are not negative by about INR 200-300 crores. We are now positive, we are on the other side. We have crossed that hurdle also and we were positive last year, we'll be positive in future also. I think we have slowly moved. The narrative has moved from being tentative, being negative, being less to more, and we will capitalize on it as we move forward. Many of the learnings we never anticipated. To tell you very frankly, we never anticipated that sort of increase in the module prices. In spite of having back-to-back order, many of the Chinese suppliers went back. In spite of not only orders, but LC opened, they did not honor it and all. We have now taken corrective action. Similarly, we were not doing 100% hedging of currency. Last quarter was again an aberration where huge changes happened in the Forex rates. We have now taken corrective action. Important thing is how quickly we learn and take corrective action, and are we open to those things and are we sensitized to those things. If we can do that, we'll have one quarter of these outlier results, but next quarter onwards we'll make it up. Just my last question for now on CGPL. From a cash flow perspective, is the Section 11 notification getting implemented now? Because in the first quarter obviously there were shortfalls and for which a tool will be required. Is that now functioning on a cash flow basis, you're getting payments for a fuel cost pass through? Yeah, we are getting payment. We are expecting now a formal order from CERC. The hearings have happened, the pleadings have got completed. The order is reserved. Possibly by end of September we'll get the final order. That will set the tone as to how the payment has to be made. For that period, a regulatory asset is accumulating which you did not recognize in Q1 numbers. Yeah. Like a receivable is. Yeah. -accumulated. Absolutely. It will have a positive impact. Yeah. Thank you. Hello. This is Rahul from ICICI Securities. Sir, I want to understand your strategy on the T&D part. We recently acquired 2 assets on the Resurgent platform. Now we've had a partner which has started projects, you know, working with one of the lines. What was the strategy when we actually took it up in the Resurgent platform and not on Tata Power? Some thought on that, if you could, you know, share, because obviously the bigger benefit would have come if you would have taken on Tata Power's books. On the opportunity of this INR 87,000 crore of TBCB, which you mentioned, that'll be whether on Tata Power or again on platform, some light on that. The two bids that we did was on Resurgent because Resurgent had a certain commitment in terms of the contribution from the partners. We had to utilize that. We utilized partly in the acquisition of Prayagraj, and then we took a call that we will not do any coal-based. Our partners wanted that we should use the full quantum of money that has been committed, and that is why the two we did through the Resurgent platform. Now that the whole money has been fully utilized, all new acquisitions, bidding, TBCB, everything will be on Tata Power, nothing on Resurgent platform. Sure. Sir, how is now the health of Tata Projects as a company? Because obviously, you know, we've seen some drag, some cleaning up of the books. Where are we there, if you can just... Sanjay, do you want to respond? Sanjay is on the board of Tata Projects as is [NGU]. Tata Projects had some issues related to unbilled revenue, and those all has been cleaned up. Now if we see the future outlook for Tata Projects is really very, very bright. The kind of project which they have won recently. One is the Noida International Airport. This is around INR 5,000 crore projects. The Parliament is another one. Going forward, they have a bright future and Tata Power, of course, the 50% in that will get money. Okay. Just last question on the distribution part of the business. We mentioned that target is around INR 60,000 crore of revenue, which is like huge. Which are the states which are actually you know looking forward to either privatizing or some kind of a service business that they can actually avail from the private sector? Some thoughts on which states could be forthcoming. T&D part, if we see first in Tata Power. Last year, last to last year, our revenue was around INR 14,000 crore. After Odisha takeover, it becomes INR 26,000 crore. This year, considering the better growth in Odisha, it will come to around INR 28,000-29,000 crore, so a jump of around 10%. Now, how it grow further, our optimism says that Electricity (Amendment) Bill will pass as MD also said in winter session, and then it will completely open up the sector. Our experience of Delhi, Mumbai and Odisha, we leverage that, and the projections are based on that. We are expecting states which are really in difficult situation like UP, Rajasthan, Jharkhand. There are very active discussions which are going on in these states that how they should come out with privatization model. There has been discussion even in Maharashtra. Because MSEDCL is the biggest distribution company, and virtually become unmanageable because of its size. They are also planning to reform MSEDCL that should be cut into few parts and give it to private sector, one part of that. Those kind of discussions are going on. These states, I think would be more active on privatization. Okay. I'll just slip in the last one. What we are actually you know seeing in the EV charging space, we've not talked much about that. How do you see the business model evolving and a revenue stream building for us? Because currently we are investing in the business. When do you see you know that turnaround happening from a cost to a revenue structure? I know it's still evolving, but if you can give some light on that. Thank you. There are three parts of the business in EV. One is the home charging, where we make decent returns for the work that we carry out. There is the public charging. Now, the public charging is right now the penetration is less. Also, the utilization is less than 2%. Until and unless it reaches a utilization of minimum 10%, it will not meet the operating cost. The third is the utility and the public transportation, where again, we make quite okay margin in that. Out of the three, two places we are positive in our returns. In one place, we are, it's an investment that we are making because we want to have the locations where these charges can be, and also the market play that is required to ensure that you are able to provide this service uniformly. Because you cannot be a piecemeal supplier in one state or one city and not do it right across. This is a conscious call that we said that we'll do it, but it's a long-term bet that we have put in the opportunity that it will provide. Good afternoon, sir. This is Rajesh Majumdar from B&K Securities. Sir, I have just one question for you. On TPSSL, when you make the projections from INR 10,000-14,000 crore and so on and so forth, what is the kind of capacity additions you're envisaging for ourselves and from the market? Because we've not seen that kind of capacity additions, and you yourself mentioned about a certain hurdle rate in terms of taking on these projects. What is the kind of gigawatts addition you're seeing from the company and from outside when you make these kind of projections? Throw some more color on how we can expect to achieve these kind of goals. Earlier, in TPSSL or third party, EPC used to be nearly 90% of our revenue and 10% was captive for Tata Power. Now it's about 50/50. Going forward also, we expect it will be 50/50. I mentioned to you that we'll do something like 2-2.5 GW or at least 2 GW of solar, it may because we'll also be doing hybrid. We'll do something like 1 GW of rooftop solar, 500 MW of solar pumps. Virtually the 4 GW of manufacturing plus the existing 500, most of it will get used internally. Then you will have a capacity of another 1 GW, which we can decide between export and using it in third party EPC. What we are setting up will basically cater to our own requirement as well as to some third party EPC that we'll be doing. What is the kind of operating expenses build-up that we can expect to see from the company to gear for these projects in terms of employee costs, et cetera? Those are part of the manufacturing cost, overall cost of manufacturing and how competitive we can be. There will be two parameters. One is, of course, the manufacturing cost, which includes the employee cost and the A&G cost and others. The second is the efficiency of the equipment and what sort of rates we can get in the market for that. Our objective is that we'll be more competitive compared to any imported module or compared to any other Indian manufacturer on like-for-like basis. Hello, sir. Amit here from Morgan Stanley. I just wanted to understand what is your outlook on renewable capacity addition for green hydrogen. Are you accounting for that in your forecast? Right now, we have not accounted for that. It's a little early stage, and we could not get a hang of what sort of hydrogen capacity will get added in next five years. What we are doing is we are in discussion with a large number of hydrogen players, global hydrogen players. We've also bid along with them in some project, whereby our battery limit will be the renewable power that we will supply for producing hydrogen. That's definitely not accounted for in our growth plan for 2027. Any ballpark estimate how big it can be? I mean, because people are just putting out some numbers. Too much of kite flying. I don't want to hazard a guess on. Right. We have too many other things to do. Let some other people do the guessing part of it. Right. Sir, other thing I wanted to understand on this RPO obligation which has been increased now, do you see the grid stability issues being a hurdle? One thing. Second, I mean, earlier there haven't been any penalties to what I understand, to the extent that I understand. So are there any penalty clause that are being looked at? Because if there are no penalties, they would. If they're adding penalties, it would be again, electricity being a very sensitive matter and adding on to the cost thing. If they don't add it, then people may just say, "So I just not want to actually have that push to reach 47%." So how do you see that implementation working out on RPO obligation side? One is the grid stability is not a showstopper. Mm-hmm. There are certain things that you need to do in the grid to bring stability. Those equipment can be provided over there and the grid can be fairly stable. We should not get worried that 400 gigawatt of renewable will come and our grid will collapse. All studies, all simulations have shown that nothing like that will happen. Having said that, on the enforcement of the RPO, this is a commitment of the country. This is not a commitment of a state or a company. We have gone and said that we will have 50% of our capacity through non-carbon sources by 2030. Climate change is a reality and it is not something which will happen after a hundred years. This is happening today in our country, and we have to see the writing on the wall. This is not something that we can shove it under the carpet and say that you don't enforce it. There's no choice. This is a commitment that we have to do. Right. There's no option in this that this has to be done. I don't think we can escape from that. Good. Thank you. Sir, this is Deepika Mundra from JP Morgan. Just one question from my side. If the Electricity Amendment Act gets done, and you mentioned your aspiration for 50 cities, could you walk us through how this would work? As in, how would you enter a new city? Would you even consider some of the few cities where existing private sector players are already there? Typically when you decide, there will be certain metrics on which you would decide what is the condition of the network over there, what is the profile of the customers over there, how much of industrial, commercial, residential consumers are there. Also in terms of what is the ecosystem of the regulatory government and all that. Once you take a call on some of these aspects, you will go and like to do, because when you are a second supplier of electricity, you use the existing network of the embedded distribution company. Now, you can supply electricity provided the embedded distribution company lines are functioning. Otherwise, the last mile connectivity is not being done by you. You will never be able to give better quality service. What is the differentiated service that you will provide? That's what is important when you decide on the cities that you would do. The second aspect is the permission. The amendment says that you will apply to the concerned regulator, and if in 90 days they do not give, then there is a deemed approval that will happen. Of course, in India, the 90 days can move to 180 days. Somewhere in the system, you can go and appeal somewhere, some direction will come, something will happen. There's no single window in India, there's no single window. After one single window, there will be multiple windows and doors you have to do. Nothing is on autopilot on all these things. Yes, this is an enabler and a big enabler for the transition that can happen. Hi, sir. Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss. Firstly, on, you know, on this renewable capacity addition of 3 gigawatt. We are going big way on the C&I side. There is a big demand coming in from there, like you mentioned in the morning also. Now there is a considerable push for the non-discriminatory power in the Electricity Act also. Out of this 3 gigawatt, what is the portion that you're targeting from the C&I side? That would be about 500-700 MW. Also, now you know that there is a necessity for bundling renewable power with thermal power. That is also an opportunity that will come when you look at utility generation capacity. Of course, utilities who will have to meet the RPO. Sure. As a second, I observed that, you know, in the EV charging, the aspirational target has come down from 1 lakh chargers to about 25,000 chargers over the next 5 years. This is with respect to the slow adoption, or is there some strategy change? What is it exactly? Yeah. Basically 1 lakh chargers, 100,000 now, the home chargers reduced to 140,000 or something like that, some sort of number. The home chargers has increased. The public chargers have come down because there's a lot of now chargers which are going in the public transportation and in many of the other large service providers who are going to. We have removed that number of chargers from the public chargers and put it under the third-party chargers. Does it change the math? I believe home chargers would be slightly less profitable versus public slash utility chargers. Does it change the metrics? Home chargers are today profitable compared to- Yeah. Public chargers are not at all profitable today. That's where we'll be much better off with more home chargers and also public transportation chargers and all that. Sure. Thank you so much, and thanks again for putting up a great presentation, and we hope you have a much better execution now. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I think we have no more questions. Some of the analysts I don't see asking any questions, so probably they will ask you separately over lunch, I think so. No, but I think more importantly is to go and see whatever stalls we have and also the power control center. Because once you see that, you will have over there or thereafter. Because once you see how it is being done, you will definitely like to ask how exactly is, what are the benefits and how it can become more sustainable and consumer friendly. Hi, sir. This is Apurva Deshmukh from JM Financial. Sir, two questions. Firstly, on the cell manufacturing plant, the CapEx appears slightly on the higher side, right, on a per gigawatt basis than what is there for a cell module. Any specific reason for that? Are we, like, overbuilding the capacities or sort of ensuring that it is future ready to be integrated further backwards? And secondly, sir, on the RTC-RE power side, for supplying that power, what type of backup are working on? I think you highlighted during the project, but we are seeing a lot of traction on the closed loop pump side. Do we intend to move in that area as well? I don't know in terms of per megawatt whether the cell and module, but you know, dependent on what sort of technology you are using and from where, we are not only Chinese, most of our equipments actually will come from Germany. We are looking at some of the top-of-the-line manufacturers, and these are all fully automated plants which are there. The flexibility that tomorrow, if we have to change, once the HJT or any other technology comes, how do we quickly modify and change to the new technology. The second is we are definitely not looking at the closed loop. We are looking at the standard hydro plants which have a reservoir and using that because again, closed loop has its challenge of acquisition of land, also challenge of resettlement, rehabilitation, a lot of environmental issues are there. We don't want to get bogged down into those areas where you have existing hydro plants and the reservoir is there. You just need to have one more separate pipeline to take the water up and use the existing infrastructure to generate the additional power. That's a much faster and a much simpler, like what we are doing now in Bhira. We are doing it in just what, two years, huh? Yes. About 24-28 months we are doing it. New projects also we are planning, we'll do it in about 24-28 months. That makes it much more attractive. That's why someone asked me the question, "What will be your storage cost?" I said INR 5 because of that reason. If you go for a greenfield, it's INR 8-9 or INR 10 in that range. Yeah. Hi, sir. This is Anuj from HDFC Securities. It's basically based on the growth projection which we have when we say it on the renewable side, and it's largely benchmark on the capacity addition the country would be having. We have built in an assumption of nearly 300 gigawatt capacity to be added up with an annual rate of 30 gigawatt. It's not happening as on date. We are nearly at a half of it. What trigger do you see would that lead to that kind of a growth, factoring the thing that the domestic module capacity or the cell capacity would come up after 2-3 years across by as which has been planned by many domestic manufacturer. We already seen the duty imposition happening on the imported side, which has escalated the cost, which again leads to a viability on the DISCOM side. Secondly, the battery side, this much of a capacity without a battery support and a viable battery support won't happen as on date. The battery, the expert which are projecting would become viable only after 2-3 years down the line. Again, the time period is very less. That is 2-3 years is what we are targeting a viable solution. Within that span of period, do we see that kind of a capacity getting added up? Well, there are two things. One is on the capacity addition. The very purpose of coming with aggressive RPO obligation and enforcing it with penalties and all will ensure that many of the states go for adding capacity or tying up that capacity. Secondly, I think the enabling provision that the government has done on open access, that any consumer more than 100 kilowatt, which used to be 1 megawatt, can now go, and they have now created a web portal. The web portal gives you both the subsidy for residential consumers and also the permission. The interconnectivity permission from state DISCOM used to take between 3-6 months, and the people will make you run around and will not approve. Now, that is just 15 days. For a country like India, the potential is huge, and the rooftop itself, if we put our act together and we have a good solution. When I say rooftop, not only for residential, but industrial and commercial. That itself is a 400 gigawatt market. We are just not able to reach because of so many. There are, of course, other issues related to that in terms of financing and all that, and you need to also ensure that how do you arrange financing. We've been working with State Bank of India. They opened separate branches for a branch only exclusively for rooftop solar, and this is again for all types of customers. SIDBI has been. I think the ecosystem that is now being created will push. It will not just be utility scale. I don't think it will only be. When we talk of 30 gigawatt, maybe 20 gigawatt will be utility scale, 10 gigawatt will come from other. For a country like India, it makes immense sense that we go for renewable power. It's INR 3. Even if we consider that we don't have people doing harakiri with INR 2 and INR 2.20 and all that. INR 3 power versus today that you get power at INR 8, INR 9, INR 10. Even if you add the transmission charges, the wheeling charges, and they have now put a restriction on the cross-subsidy charge that it cannot be more than 20% of the cost of supply. I think, the whole enabling environment is being created, whereby, this will not only be distributed generation opportunities, but also, an opportunity where many of the industrial and commercial consumers will go for renewable energy. Thanks. Yeah. I think we'll. Just one follow-up. Considering the fact that the carbon credits are now much more easily monetizable and much more profitable, do you consider the same when you said that 13%-14% is your threshold? Are you considering that in your predictions, or that is over and above? That is over and above. We have already applied for carbon credit from 2016 onwards. All those benefits will start coming. What would be the inventory, rough cut inventory, if you can just at the moment for with you, for carbon credit? We'll share the numbers. It's a substantial amount of money. It is a substantial amount of money. All right. Thank you. I think we'll close this first session. Thank you all for a patient and very interactive, very good interaction. Thanks to the management team for this. I'll just make a housekeeping announcement. What we are going to do now is actually break into five groups. You have the colors on your label that you're wearing. I'll just ask the coordinators for each of the groups to just maybe stand up. The red one will be coordinated by me, so you know me. Blue is Rajesh. Orange is Adidashi, and yellow is Maulika, and green is Rahul. What you do is probably tag yourself with the group coordinators for the lunch. They will ensure that you have a lunch in time, and then we will be. Then we will. Because there are seven stalls. Otherwise, we will just overshoot all the timeline, and the plant people will not allow us beyond a point of time here. I think then we will. So- Yeah. You are also showing the PSCC and all that. Yeah, yeah. The sales plus PSCC. Plus stalls- And then- The CCID. The car also. Yes. Absolutely. All the The charging gun. The charging gun. Okay. Thanks once again. Thanks to the organizers also for this wonderful venue which they had created a very short time actually. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.