Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. C. K. Venkataraman, Managing Director, Titan Company Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Ryu. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the call. Always a pleasure to talk to all of you. It was a very satisfying quarter for us. Standalone growth was slightly above 17%, dispersed across the business portfolio a little differently. The CaratLane business also grew very well, a little over 28%. So the consumer businesses of the company at 18%+ growth is a very encouraging sign in these, you know, times. And what gives us a lot more joy is, for the full year, businesses like Watches, Taneira have done exceedingly well in terms of growth. Of course, jewelry continues to shine, all the brands, including CaratLane for the year. The foundations that we have laid in the eye care business in H2, as well as the work that we have already begun and, you know, in implementation or in WIP in the perfumes businesses for FY2025, all give us a lot of confidence about the current year. We're really looking forward to that, as well. Now I hand you over back for all clarifications and questions, please. Sure. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Abneesh Roy from Nuvama. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks. My first question is on the jewelry margin. So, this year, there is a drop of around 140 bps in terms of EBIT margin for the full year and 110 bps drop in Q4. In Q3, you had pointed out that the competitive intensity has gone up because gold price spike is there, and local players have that advantage because they have the inventory. They don't do gold on lease. Wanted to understand how are things now and next year do you see expansion because there's a drop YOY for the full year? Would you expect expansion next year? Hi, Abneesh. Ajoy here. Thanks. So you are aware that last year, anyway, we had some one-time gains on account of inventory gains on diamonds, and there was customs duty benefit. So there is that piece. And this year, yes. In the current quarter, there has been, let's say, a gross margin which is lower than what we would usually deliver in a studded quarter, studded intensive quarter. And as mentioned in the presentation, there were two reasons for it. One was the payouts or the customer offers. And competitive intensity continues to be high because the environment, consumer, let's say, sentiment and environment for business continued to be a little soft. And therefore, all players were, you know, pretty much pushing for growth. We also wanted to ensure that we continue to deliver the 20% growth that we are kind of, you know, got used to delivering and want to continue to deliver. Consequently, we also responded with appropriate offers and promotions. In the current period also, there is a fair amount of competitive intensity because the environment because of elevated gold prices remains soft. It's not that that has changed. In fact, in April, the gold prices went up even further. It has cooled a little after that but still higher than what it was in, let's say, quarter four. So I think there will be. This is an ongoing thing. Competitive intensity will continue, and we will continue to invest in growth and respond accordingly in the marketplace to ensure that we continue to gain market share. There was one more reason. I mean, I must, here upfront mention that, one is the consumer offers. But there is also a factor that when gold prices rise very suddenly and significantly, because of the, you know, weighted average impact on the material cost of studded jewelry you know, it's a combination of diamond cost as well as, gold cost. When gold rises up significantly and quickly compared to, let's say, diamond content, there is a certain differential impact on the GC. And therefore, the gross margins temporarily get affected. It takes us a few months thereafter to make some fundamental corrections in either the product engineering or the design or do some changes in the way we are sourcing, etc. And then we get the gross margin back up. So in the same vein, it had happened a couple of years ago as well. This year also, this has happened, especially in quarter four. You know, it has extended into April. So we have taken cognizance of that, and we've started working on how to re-engineer the margins upwards. But it'll take a few months for us to make that correction. That's, I suppose, I've answered your question and a little bit more. Yeah. So to understand correctly, in the near term, do you see pressure on margins being there because in Q2, your margins are extremely high, 14.1%, while in Q1, it is soft? So would it be fair to say that the expansion, if at all, will happen mostly in the second half in terms of EBIT margin? I can't predict right now, Abneesh, to be honest. But I know that in this quarter, which is anyway a softer margin quarter, I'm not anticipating it to go up so quickly because we will take our time to make some, you know, response to the elevated gold rate that is there. I'm hoping that from quarter two onwards, we'll start seeing some improvement because some of these efforts required take time. And how much will come in in quarter two, then how much will come in quarter three, quarter four, it's slightly difficult to estimate at this point in time. Sure. My. Maybe a fair estimate, as you said, is probably a little more hopeful in the second half rather than in the first half. Sure. Thanks. My follow-on question on jewelry business is, you have done well in studded ratio being constant in spite of sharp inflation in gold prices because in Q3, there was a 200 basis points drop. This time, it is stable at 33%. But my question here is, and this would have been asked earlier also. In terms of lab-grown diamond, what is the current scenario? Are you worried on that from a 2-3 years perspective that this could be a disruptor in your business over a three-year timeframe? I understand near term, it may not be. But what are the trends you are picking up in your market? So it's a complex question to answer, what is the impact of lab-grown, if any, in a three-year perspective. We are taking significant cognizance of how lab-grown diamonds have kind of grown rapidly in the US, largely, of course, in the center stone engagement ring segment, which is very peculiar to the US. We have noted that it has not impacted or there has not been much development in Europe or China, even Middle East, some early stages but not much. In India, there have been a few brands which have emerged, supported largely by the supply side, i.e., you know, diamond growers, lab-grown diamond growers. And the entire lab-grown diamond, the way it has progressed in the US, has resulted in some significant stress on the profitability of jewelers there. And of course, it is very, very difficult for the supplier side because they have got jammed. Now, how is it going to affect us on the consumer front is a difficult one to answer. We are keeping our eyes and ears open. We are, in fact, doing active tracks. We are in touch with consumers. And we are trying to see, if any, where are the early adopters emerging from. And so far, we have not seen any significant traction, though there is some traction at the margin. But it is very small. In the three-year period, how it will emerge is very difficult to conclude. Maybe we should come back to you when we have a little bit more to share. At this point in time, can't answer it, honestly. Okay. Understood. Last question. On the watches business, so essentially, this quarter, the wearables have gone much lower at 3% versus analog at 9%. You expect this trend to continue in FY25. In wearables, is the pricing now at the bottom given your volumes have doubled, but your revenues have grown only 3%, so which means negative pricing very strong? So if you could talk about, is it, mixed adverse which is expected impacting, or it is a rack rate? There is a sharp deflation in terms of pricing. Hi, Abneesh. This is Suparna here. So on wearables, some of the major players and, in fact, a lot of unbranded players have actually, you know, are facing a lot of extra stock, which had been kind of built into their inventory plans. And so there is a lot of pricing pressure. And they are operating at much lower prices. They want to clear out the stock. We therefore are in a situation where we are, of course, we still have a huge price premium over a lot of them. Having said that, that's where the market is. And we are expecting this whole thing to settle in about maybe 3-4 months. By the time the Diwali buildup happens, which is in August, September, we hope that this excess stock which is leading to heavy discounting will settle down. And we are also expecting a lot of new launches, which will come in, for us from May onwards. So all of those will be, either tech or fashion differentiated products and should command the price that, they deserve. So, thanks. That's all from me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manoj Menon from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Sure. Hi, Ajoy and team. I think it was very clear from the earlier commentary that, you know, if there is a charge to be made between sales or margins, you're going to gun for revenue. At least, that was my interpretation. So it's a question about margins. It's not really about the short term. I don't honestly see that as a miss. It's actually as an investment. You know, so how do we think about the next 12-24 months, assuming that, you know, let's say, gold stays, you know, volatile, also assuming the relative competitive intensity remains the same? If you could just help us understand, you know, in your mind, what are the up-elevators and the down-elevators as far as margins are concerned? Thank you. That's the first question. Yeah. Thanks, Manoj. Yeah. You're right. We have made clear choices of pushing for growth and aggressive growth. And if margins do take a hit, we are willing to do that. And we've done that consistently in the last several quarters as needed. We still ended the year with a fairly healthy 12.3% EBIT margin. And, you know, we've been saying consistently, I think both Ashok and I and all of us have been saying that 12%-13% is a reasonable expectation to have for the EBIT margin. And annually, I would still say, you know, we are we are staying with that point of view. And we, you know, despite pushing for growth, despite volatility, some pluses and minuses will keep happening all through. So over the next 12-24 months, we would certainly, you know, stay consistent with that view, you know, unless there are some newer events that emerge. What is the second part of your question? No, no. That, that's the same, actually. That you responded to this. I was just trying to understand the, let's say, when I think about 12, 24 months, what are the up-elevators and the down-elevators, you know, the way you look at your, you know, EBIT margin? I'm sure that, obviously, there will be operating leverage benefits also, you know, in your up-elevator. Just trying to understand which are those, let's say, top three plus and top three minus, you know, and net you get to this number. Yeah. So, maybe difficult to answer that over a call. I'm aware that we are meeting by the end of this month on the investor day. I'll try to give you a better flavor of that in person, you know, because there are many forces at play. Certainly, one of the forces which you might have picked up from my earlier answer is the jump in gold prices, which does create some disturbance, you know, in gross margin delivery. I'll probably share a little bit more flavor of it when we meet at the end of the month. Super. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Secondly, you know, how do we think about, okay. Now, honestly, we don't discuss much about the total addressable market, you know, for, for you specifically because it's assumed that, it's a long run for growth. But the question here is, you know, when I think about, presence today, the town presence rather, it's around 280 currently. There are about 700-odd districts. So, you know, the question here is, you know, realistically, as it stands today, you know, where you could be because the question I'm also the context there is that, you know, the, the let's say, the relative competitive landscape seems to have been redrawn. Also, if I go by media reports, etc., I think growth capital is available for a lot of, let's say, regional players, is a likely outcome in the next 12-24 months also. You know, so, how do you think about the, you know, re the addressable market for you, given that you operate in the mid you know, actually, in the premium to, luxury space? That's one. Second one, clarification is that the, overall Encircle members of 35 million, what proportion would be, let's say, Tanishq consumers? Okay. So, I'll take the first one. So we have expanded. We have added, in the current year, several stores, in fact, 46 or 47 new stores in Tanishq. Of course, Mia, we've added 67. And, CaratLane also has continued to add quite a few 50-odd stores. Now, we still see a lot of opportunity for adding more stores in many more towns. Tanishq India, if I exclude the external international markets, is in about 268 or so towns, okay, 268-269 towns. I personally believe that there is opportunity to go beyond 300 towns. I've mentioned this in the past. The opportunity to expand into hinterland towns, also newer catchments in many existing towns, is pretty high. And our ability to, let's say, exploit that opportunity is a function of execution and getting the right property and then some places built to suit. It is a fair amount of effort. Simultaneously, Manoj, we have this same bandwidth and capacity to execute is also focused on expanding and transforming the existing retail stores. In the year gone by, we have done 50 projects on renovations, relocations, and significant expansion of existing Tanishq stores. Over the last two years, it has been a program which also, in a way, has helped add a lot of square footage and transform the retail experience and capacity to handle larger business, by each store. So these projects, in a way, last year, close to 100 projects in Tanishq have happened between, you know, new as well as old renovations besides the action on Mia and CaratLane etc. And Zoya also continues. So the opportunity is much larger. The constraint is our ability to execute and execute it well with the right quality, with the right kind of neighborhood, and, you know, also the staff and everything else. The second part of your question and therefore, we are not really worried if others have the growth capital. Yes, most welcome. But Tanishq itself sees a huge opportunity in market expansion. The second part of your question was on Encircle. Typically, we serve about three million customers. Yes. 10 million is the Encircle Tanishq. Yeah. So thank you. About 10 million is the Encircle Tanishq database, Manoj. Out of the 35 million. Also, just adding to Ajoy's point, the growth capital is one part. But when we go to a Jajpur or a Jharsuguda, people are waiting for Tanishq; such is not the case for others with growth capital. Absolutely, sir. In fact, we did an exercise recently of just simply plotting the Tanishq stores on the map versus what it used to look like, you know, 10 years back. And, yeah, I think it's that helps the story. Thank you. And lastly, if I may, just one small thing, which is linked to that margin question. Historically, we had observed this consumer behavior that, whenever gold is, let's say, very expensive such from a perception point of view or inflationary, you know, we have actually seen a tailwind for studded, right, you know, because it's easier to upsell better margins, etc. So how do I see the margin performance in this, is that behavior still holds good, or is it waiting to happen, or how do I reconcile with the historical understanding? Thank you. And that's the last question, sir. Yeah. So, Manoj, so I think when gold prices go up dramatically, sentiment gets affected. And we actually see even studded buyers kind of wait. But so I'm not able to draw the same correlation. Maybe I will connect separately to understand how the pattern you have seen. But we are seeing, you know, buyer growth has been good on studded. If I look at quarter four and, you know, also extending into April overall, buyer versus ticket size, I think buyer growth in studded versus buyer growth in gold actually, studded buyer growth has done marginally better. But the value-wise, I think gold has done better. So I'm not very sure about your hypothesis, but we can connect to understand this better. I don't have a clear answer for that. My sense is, as soon as gold prices go up, there is generally a lull in consumer walk-ins. That affects us both, studded as well as gold. Very much pretty clear. Thank you, sir. I'm good to answer. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Before we take the next question, we'd like to request participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Avi Mehta from Macquarie. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. sir, I just wanted to check with you whether, you know, the current elevated discounts in jewelry, should it be or could it be seen as a possible indication of demand weakness? And secondly, is 4Q capturing or is a fair representation of the current discounting pressures in jewelry segment, or is there a you know, is it for some part of the quarter, hence, if there's possibly downside risk? No, you're right. I think if consumer sentiment was higher, there would be less discounting in the market by every player. To be honest, competitive intensity has been growing. And I expect it to only continue to grow. Also, several new players will keep coming in. So I'm not seeing if this is going to relent, you know, so easily. Of course, this year, first quarter, also election quarter, and wedding dates are also very few. So I think it'll continue in the near term. Let's see how it emerges post-election. But, Ajoy, what I was trying to get to is, would you link it more to the current sharp increase in gold price, or would you link it more to it's generally a demand issue, and hence, we don't know? That's the point I was trying to understand. How would you, look at this? The near term, I understand. But that's where I was trying to get to. No, I would say, greater emphasis on the gold price increase, because we didn't see it all the time, not the entire quarter. It became particular only when gold prices were jumping up significantly. The volatility was happening. Otherwise, it is not so bad. It's more to do with gold price. Perfect. Perfect. That helps. Second for Suparna, you know, for FY2024 and I'm not looking at only fourth quarter. But in FY2024, we have seen a decline in EBIT margins on a YY basis. Now, while I understand your point about discounting pressures because of inventory, could you help us understand from a full-year basis, where do you see margins? What is the band that you are more comfortable with? Some, you know, guidance or some indication of a range would be helpful. That's all I can say. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for the question. So, this year and, you know, this was discussed a little while back, we did prioritize growth. We have got 19% growth in sales. For doing that, I think, we've invested a lot more in advertising, which is more than 40% growth. Some of our sales and marketing, other cost overheads have also gone up. Also, there is an impact of the AGP, which is a mixture which gets, you know, altered because of the mix between analog watches and wearables, smartwatches, which is the AGP percentage a little lower. Overall, the brand mix between various brands has also led to this result. So there is a very good, healthy increase in overall sales. That's 19%, which has also led to, I would say, a decent increase in AGP. But various cost increases have actually led to, not, it's not translating to an adequate margin increase. I think, and, when we meet, later this month, we can go into more details. But I the overall idea is that for this financial year, we continue to push the pedal on revenue growth but also put a lot of focus and attention on managing costs much better so that the overall benefit and the operating leverage actually flows through to the profit line. So it's fair to say margins, while you're not given number, it is, you know, maybe from here on, you expect it to improve as the leverage flows through. Is that a fair understanding? Okay. Perfect. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Ilan. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Latika Chopra from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. My first question was on CaratLane. You know, for FY24, I think broadly across quarters, we've seen that the like-to-like growth has been lagging that of Tanishq. You know, could you share some color on what's, you know, driving this? Is it entirely linked to, you know, some, you know, discretionary consumption pullback at those ticket sizes, or there is something more here? And you opened 50 stores in FY24 for CaratLane. Will you continue with this pace of store addition, or would there be any kind of a rethink here? Thank you. That's the first one. Yeah. Hi, hi, Latika. So, the year before, I think FY2023, we opened close to 90 CaratLane stores and, in many catchments. We also expanded some of the stores. They were bigger stores also. So there has been a retail expansion as well. That resulted in, you know, we saw the analysis across various towns that some towns saw good incremental overall growth but had an impact on the same store growth of the older stores. Some towns where they were not saturated saw both positive. There were one or two few towns in the top 20-25 towns where we saw some, you know, mixed results kind of thing. So overall conclusion was that, how are different catchment areas kind of contributing to incremental sale and how much of it is impacting same-store growth? That realization with the team led to scaling down the rate of growth. You know, earlier plans was to grow at the same rate of number of new stores. There was a more calibrated approach taken. Therefore, only 50 stores were added. Going forward in the current year, the focus on prioritizing same-store growth while continuing to expand in a calibrated way so that same-store growth doesn't get compromised, both these factors are operating. Also. Yeah. Also, you know, if I go back to Ajoy's point earlier about the town opportunity with Tanishq, Tanishq is a much broader appeal, mainstream jewelry brand. So we can open stores in Satna and Rewa and Sagar, small towns like those in MP. And therefore, the total growth of Tanishq, versus the like-for-like growth of Tanishq will be of the profile that you see on the charts. Whereas CaratLane, a little more modern brand, you know, you won't go that fast into the kind of towns I'm mentioning. And therefore, the distribution expansion will be a little more consolidated approach in the towns where we are already present. And therefore, the inter-store impact within a Bombay, Delhi, or even a Nagpur and Bhopal for CaratLane will be greater. So even though the total sale is respectable, the like-for-like will come under pressure. That's the thing that we are learning and, you know, trying to see how to maximize so that even from an asset utilization, OPEX optimization point of view, where do we get the maximum bang for the buck? But intrinsically, that difference will play out in this manner. Yeah. Just one more flavor, as you said, because of Tanishq I didn't answer the Tanishq equivalent. In studded, because the product mix of CaratLane is studded and largely in the sub-INR 100,000. And then when I look at that comparison of same-store growth of Tanishq, Mia, and CaratLane in the sub-INR 100,000 studded space, the dispersion is not as much as you see. So the gold benefit, which Tanishq other stores have, is not seen in these brands. Yeah? Understood. Yeah. So thank you. That's useful. The second bit I wanted to check on, check on was your international, you know, foray on jewelry. You have now 16 stores. You know, so is this something that you are very excited about, you know, to grow incrementally much more at a much more faster pace? Any any color on, you know, different geographies in terms of key funds? And more importantly, you know, we discussed a lot about margins, you know, you're in for today. But if you look at medium term, do you think that investments in the overseas operations, you know, could be a drag on, on, on, on the segment margins, or do these could these could be accretive? Thank you. And that was the last question I had. Thanks for asking. I mean, from an excitement perspective, I think it's very, very clear. We are excited. And it really looks like we have a large opportunity. The sort of fundamental question that we keep hearing back from customers is, "Why didn't you come in earlier?" And therefore, from the 16 stores, we are looking to get to something like around 30 stores across both North America as well as the GCC region. We've opened in Singapore as well. And we will continue to explore new locations where we can add more stores because the response has been really very positive, very supportive, and working quite well. On the margin side, despite the higher costs that we encounter in each of these markets in all of these markets, particularly on the employee cost side, the GCs are still very healthy. You get a very positive studded mix. Particularly in markets like the U.S., that is helping us get to very healthy kind of P&L. So we are building this out. Obviously, there is a lot of investment that is going in in terms of costs and capabilities that are being created for the scale that we are looking at. So that's the overall story. Very, very positive. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devanshu Bansal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, gold prices are elevated, which should also lead to higher inventory at stores. According to you, can this also lead to lower inventory turns, or the company sort of trying to reduce the stock or lightweight the inventory at the stores? Okay. Yeah, Devanshu, you're right. Gold prices do impact the inventory value. We keep optimizing on the weight and the quantum of inventory. We're also pursuing internally many merchandising effectiveness initiatives, including TOC version 2.0 and so on and so forth. We are doing lightweighting as well. It's an institutionalized process, which we are pursuing very strongly. Despite that, there is only that much optimization that can be done. We believe that any further optimization is going to affect sales. Therefore, you have no option but to absorb that value increase. What we do is ensure capital employed remains reasonably well under control by making suitable choices between gold-on-lease and spot buying. So, and we also do exchange gold that we receive. We sell in the bullion and thereby optimize the kind of sourcing mix between GOL and spot buying. That's the way we manage the capital employed. So while inventory turns may dilute or remain stable, the capital turns, we try to manage in that manner. Got it. Ajoy, do you also, sort of see lower interest from franchisees, under such elevated gold prices, just a follow-up to this? Not at all. There's always a pressure on giving new stores. Many, many people are waiting and wanting to open. So we have to make difficult choices and say no to many people and then ask them to wait a little longer. Not at all. Got it. Got it. Second is my booking bookkeeping question. I'm referring to page 63 of 80 in the investor PPT. There is a INR 63 crore EBIT loss, which is attributed to others and consolidation. Wanted a better understanding on reason for this loss, and whether this loss is expected to continue going ahead as well. Is it? We will get back to you. It is not coming top of our mind. It is nothing significant. But, we will get back to you in this call itself. Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Percy from IIFL. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening, everyone. Sorry to belabor the point. But my question is also about the competition and the impact on the margins. So while the competitive activity, promotions, etc., have increased, if we look at the other regional jewelers, they are not seeing any impact on their margins. So what are they doing which is offsetting this higher promotional impact on their margins? And can we sort of emulate or do something similar to protect our margins? I don't know which players we are referring to, because only one or two players are listed who are regional. Right. Okay. So, do you want to share which players, or? No. Whatever is available in the public domain is what I'm talking about. Okay. I, I don't know. See, we don't know how they are managing. But, we also are aware that most players in the market don't necessarily follow a 100% hedging policy. Some of them do take positions on gold. And, Right. That might be helping them in because in a rising gold rate regime, that could help. That's my best hypothesis I can give. And also, some of them, with very low studded ratios, by, let's say, some improvement in, you know, they operate at 10%, 15%, 18% studded mix. So if it goes up by 2-3 percentage points, then you can manage the overall gross margin delivery. These are my best estimates. I don't know. Other than that, you will have to be specific. And we can then discuss. Right. So obviously, the first point is not something that we would ever do. And the second point, since we are already at a good studded ratio, and it has been constant for the last 10 years or so, difficult to sort of build a case for any significant increase in that either. Am I right? Yeah. In a way, while our attempt is to keep growing studded ratio, we see that there is enough opportunity in gold. And, therefore, we are not holding back on gold. And therefore, we see them as two independent opportunities. The net outcome of it is the studded ratio, is the best answer I can give. We still hold our 12%-13% guidance for next year also, right? Yes. Okay. Secondly, I just wanted to understand on the store expansion opportunity since we are present in 280-odd cities. And of course, there is gap to open in existing as well as new cities. But if I take a slightly longer-term view, let's say, over the next five years or so, what is the total number of stores that you think we can open over a five-year period? I don't have an answer for you because we've not done that exercise. We'll try to see if anything updated view we have during Investor Day. But right now, I don't have that answer. Okay. Okay. That's all from me. Thanks. Okay. Before further question, the last question of Devanshu Bansal, just looked at that number. There is nothing unusual about it. You know, whatever corporate level expenses, which are not attributable to businesses directly, whatever things we do at corporate level, it's that adjustment. So I don't see there is anything to read in that, you know. It can always go up, down slightly here and there. But these are corporate unallocated expenses. Okay? Thank you. Kuruvilla, now you can bring the other questions. Sure. Sure. Thank you. The next question is from Aditya Soman from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Good evening. Two questions. Firstly, on Zoya, can you talk a little more about the ambitions here, both near-term and more medium-term? And also, some color on what the sales there are or any sort of color on margins would be very useful. And secondly, on the overseas business, any markers on how that business or how these stores that you've opened have been doing, especially the ones that have been open for more than a year? Thank you. So Zoya has been doing well. Zoya, we have ended the year with an MRP turnover, not NSV, MRP turnover of just under INR 300 crore. Four years ago, it was around INR 60-65 crore. So it has grown well and continues to grow. Maybe we'll throw a little bit more flavor on going forward on Zoya during the Investor Day, when we meet. Hi. Can you hear? Your question on how the stores are doing, that, that is not related to Zoya, right? You're talking about the international jewelers. Yeah. International. Tanishq. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On Tanishq, Kuruvilla. So the recent ones, say, in the US, Chicago and Dallas that we opened around the festive period, they have been doing really, really well. Say, a store like Houston, which was in a way, we were experimenting with a slightly central location, not necessarily squarely in the Indian catchment, is taking a little bit more time to build. Something like Singapore that we opened in Little India in Serangoon Road has been, again, doing way above expectations. So most locations, except some of the newer ones that or maybe some of the ones that we've tried in, slightly, let's say, mall locations, etc., off the high street, some of those are taking a little time to build. But apart from that, pretty much, I'd say that 80% of the locations that we have opened are performing better than planned. Thank you, Raika. Thank you. The next question is from Jaykumar Doshi from Kotak. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I've got two questions. First one is, you know, what is contribution of gold exchange program to overall gold exchange procurement now? How does it compare versus, you know, last year? And, you know, I believe that zero deduction is now a default, you know, part of gold exchange program, which was not the case earlier. So perhaps if you can give us some color in terms of what was zero deduction gold exchange earlier as a part of overall gold exchange. And, I mean, I'm assuming right now, it's 100%. Okay. I, I don't have an exact fix on the contribution of zero deduction and others because we do have deductions and some policies in place depending on the karatage. And also, from time to time, we also run as a complete zero deduction offer in certain markets. We also have differential approaches in certain markets. So difficult to give you an answer on that upfront. But overall, I can give you a flavor that gold exchange has done well for the year. It varies quarter to quarter. Even though gold prices went up in Q4, the contribution of gold exchange didn't really go up. It, in fact, came down compared to last year. But overall, for the year, we have done pretty much similar to what we did last year. Last year, gold exchange, excluding the this is the non-Tanishq gold, was 30% contributor to sale. This year, it was in FY2024, it was 31%. So there was a 1% improvement. And Tanishq exchange also does pretty well. So at an overall level, exchanged gold accounts for about 40%-41% of our, you know, total sale. Understood. Second question is, you know, is competitive intensity do you generally see it rise when gold prices increase sharply because a lot of your competitors, as well as their franchisees, are sitting on inventory gains? In that case, when you know, when gold prices stabilize, do you see some moderation in intensity? Or you think, you know, the intensity that you're sort of discussing at this point of time is here to stay for, you know, long? So you're right. When gold prices go up, consumer sentiment becomes a little soft. And therefore, everybody tries to gain share by being competitive. But, you know, increasingly, I see that, it's difficult to predict how gold price is going to go. And every organized player, you know, is also expanding rapidly. So local players are wanting to defend, there is expansion of local independent players also. I think we are entering a regime where everybody is going to intensely defend their turf. And therefore, in our mind, we assume that competitive intensity is going to continue to be the way it is. If it is anything lesser, it's a bonus. Thank you. That's very helpful. Thanks a lot. Thank you. The next question is from Kunal Vora from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is on how is the high-value studded jewelry doing? And is it fair to say that, early impact of Lab-made would be in high-value studded considering that, Lab-made diamonds are available at maybe 90% discount compared to naturals? And do you still think it's a medium-term growth driver for you? So actually, high-value studded, the way we've defined it, has done well for us. You know, the price bands that we look at consistently over the last several years, they've continued to gain. And, even in the quarter, it was a 14% contribution compared to 13% last year, in the same quarter. So actually, we did reasonably well. At the very high end, we saw a certain softness. But where I'm sure is whether to conclude, you know, as you have, that it is to do with lab-grown. I don't think it's, it's so much to do with that. On the solitaire at the higher end for higher carats, we have seen a certain tentativeness. But, my belief is that it is linked to the softness in prices of solitaires, which is largely determined by international market prices of solitaires. There, it's a lot to do with how the U.S. is doing, how China is doing, how Europe is doing, and Japan, etc. The bears have, in a way, controlled the supply and therefore, you know, kept prices stable. But the evolved solitaire buyer who is more than 1 carat, let's say, 1.5, 2 carat plus, that customer is perhaps waiting and watching to see if solitaire prices are likely to remain stable or come down further. So if at all, that is the only area where I see a little hesitation from customers. How much of it is due to lab-grown? Certainly not in India and certainly, to some extent, in the U.S. maybe, but not any other market. So early to conclude what you have concluded, we continue to see high-value studded as an opportunity for Tanishq because not just Tanishq, Zoya as well, because we see good response to all the initiatives we've taken. We launched Ethereal Wonders, Rarest of Rare Stones. We are launching new collections. We are all gung ho for this growth driver because our market share in this space is very, very low. So we continue to see opportunity. We have targeted for aggressive growth faster than usual studded or faster than overall growth for the brand in the coming year. That's very clear. Just continuing on this point, is there a plan to experiment with lab-made, like, if not in Tanishq, in case of CaratLane? And you did invest in a, like, lab-made company, Clean Origin. How is that business doing? So that business is linked to what is happening in the U.S. And in the U.S., there has been significant stress in the market, both for natural and for lab-grown, largely on account of, you know, intense competitive pressures at their end and falling average order values because of the drop in prices of lab-grown linked to the supply glut of lab-grown. Is it? Does it merit for us to start thinking about? See, we are observing this very closely. We are keeping a close track on what's happened in the U.S., how retailers reacted, how consumers reacted. And we are also observing what are potentially early adopters in India doing. We haven't yet come to something which is firm that can be shared. But we are taking cognizance of it. We are mindful of it. And when we have something to share, we will come back to you. We take your input on both. Thank you. Understood. In this last question, how do you see these high gold prices impacting jewelry sales in FY25? Do you think factors such as exchange and higher prices can offset some damage impact due to higher competition and demand weakness? Does the 20% growth, which you've been delivering, that can continue in FY25 as well? Our hope is always in driving aggressive growth. Our plans are in that direction. There may be ups and downs on grammage. Volatility in gold has been there for the last 1, 1.5 years now, I would say. We will always respond in the market the way we think is appropriate. We are continuing to target aggressive growth. Inshallah, we should reach there. Let's see how it goes. And aggressive. We look at buyers and overall value, not so much at gramage. Understood. Aggressive will be 20 or 20+? Sorry? Aggressive growth will be 20% or 20% plus? I don't think we should comment on that. Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you. Kunal, to your previous question, I just wanted to add. Yes. If you're okay that, how in the U.S. market, the Clean Origin piece which you spoke about, and Ajoy responded that actually, in the U.S., retailers are facing a peculiar situation. And this was also a very, very small, player. And so they are under pressure quite a bit. And our latest review suggests that, you know, the bear pressure is likely to continue. So if you see our results, you will find that about we have taken 30% impairment to our investment in that entity while the investment is a small investment. But it's still a 30% impairment we have taken in this quarter. Understood. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhant Dand from Goodwill. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. I had a question on our debt levels. What level would we be comfortable with? And by when can we, you know, reduce it to those comfortable levels or to zero? Well, so it is not uncomfortable where we are. You know, we have a long-term debt of about INR 3,000 crore, which is squarely linked to our acquisition of CaratLane. And, if, if you would have noticed that the term for that NCD which we took is 18 months and 24 months. You know, there are two tranches. And we will pay off that in 18 months and 24 months. As far as working capital loan and almost equally equivalent or slightly more amount is held as cash also if in balance sheet, you see. INR 2,600-odd working capital, and INR 3,000 crore is the cash sitting. So this is part of, you know, our bullion management, treasury management. So I think we are comfortable with this kind of balances. And it can even slightly go more. We keep optimizing between GOL and spot purchase and bullion sales. So it's pretty dynamic. So, if you look at the equity which is in excess of INR 13,000-INR 14,000 crore, I think this level of loan is we are very comfortable with. But we are not going on and as I told you, long-term will be paid back in 18 and 24 months. Okay. That's, that's perfect. My second question would be around, you know, are rental, you know, expenses affecting our non-Tanishq non-jewelry businesses in any way or not really? No, Siddhant. Not to speak of rent in particular. But certainly, the scale of some of our stores in eye care, you know, would be affected by the, I mean, the scale comes in the way of the profitability. And the rent is one aspect of that scale. But it's not a general commentary on the level of rents as much as the scale that we need to reach. And, like I said, when I started, some of the things that we have done in the last three, four months in the eye care business particularly give us a lot of confidence about how FY25 is likely to turn out for the medium and the smaller stores. But overall, rent by itself is not something that we worry about. Okay. And, is there a way to quantify whether the gold import duty is hurting the organized sector as a whole or it's very tough? Very tough. Very tough. No, okay. And could you share the international revenue of the international jewelry stores? Overall, international business this year has done about $120 million. $120 million overall international. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jewelry would be a very, very large chunk of this. 90% plus. 90% plus. Perfect. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Gopal Nawandhar from SBI Life. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, what, what could be the reason for this decline in the. Can you speak a bit louder, Gopal? Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Sir, I'm just referring to slide 71, where we see that there is a reduction in the net worth for the company from INR 1,900 crore-INR 9,400 crore, some INR 2,500 crore odd decline in their net worth. So can you just explain reason for this? This is, I think, this is consolidated. This is, yeah. So this is the investment in CaratLane which has got, canceled to my mind. And that is why this is. But if you look at it standalone, go back to standalone, where we hold the Titan balance sheet. Right. There, you will not see that issue. So, CaratLane. And our investment in CaratLane which gets canceled out? Yeah? So here, you know, if you look at the standalone balance sheet, our net worth is INR 11,994 which has gone up to INR 14,457. And if you take out that close to INR 5,000 crore from there, which is our investment in CaratLane and some other investment, it falls down to some INR 9,000 crore. CaratLane was anyways our subsidiary, right? So it was only 73% and which was purchased at a price which was far lower, INR 505 crore. And now, we have taken the balance stake at INR 4,600 crore. So that makes it INR 5,000 crore. Is it that we have actually written off this in net worth? Is that the reason why there is a decline in the net worth? I don't understand. I will send you the map of that. Okay. Okay. Okay. If it's calculated, huh? But don't worry. There is. Yeah. Net worth. If there is anything, we will kind of get back to you. Yeah? Okay. Okay. Sure, sir. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from Robert Marshall-Lee from Cusana Capital. Please go ahead. I'm going to ask a longer-term question. So in terms of the growing upper-end market, your ability to address that, via Zoya and Tanishq, and how you're thinking about that market over the next five or 10 years? Sorry. Which market? The high-end market. So the luxury or the super-luxury market, however you'd like to define it. It certainly seems it's a kind of faster-growing potential over the coming years. So to what extent you're targeting that market, which might be the focus of luxury brands from Europe, etc., and how you go about that either with your existing brands or with new brands? So, we see that's an opportunity because our presence in that market is very, very small. In India, at the very high end, it is independent jewelers who sell very high-ticket value, diamond-studded and precious-stone-studded jewelry. Our presence in that space has been through Zoya. And in the recent past, we have done some more work on high jewelry and rare jewelry with rare gemstones, etc., under the product line called Ethereal Wonders. And we are seeing very good response to that. Of course, as a contribution or as a proportion of our total business, it's very, very small. But whatever we've done, we've seen very good response. And we will continue to expand there. In fact, we have good, aggressive plans to grow in that space. So yes, we see it as a good opportunity. I must say that the Bulgari, Cartier, and Tiffany are at a higher level than Van Cleef or Graff and all these other brands. They are showing a lot of interest in India. We are also expanding Zoya in a big way as well as creating special zones in many of our bigger Tanishq stores in some of the big cities. We are also doing specific exhibitions and pop-ups in different cities and seeing very good response. Yes, we have a good plan for that. That's great. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We'll have to take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Venkataraman for closing comments. Thank you very much, everyone. As always, pleasure listening to you and looking at the perspectives that you bring into the business and making us reflect on some of those things. Thank you. See you soon. Thank you very much. On behalf of Titan Company Limited, that concludes the conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.