Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Alok Deora. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 and FY24 Earnings Conference Call of VRL Logistics. So we have with us today Mr. Sunil Nalavadi, the CFO of the company. So I'll hand over the call to Mr. Nalavadi to give some opening remarks and discuss on the performance, and then we can take up the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah, thank you, Alok. And good afternoon to all the participants. I'm Sunil Nalavadi, CFO of VRL Logistics. I welcome all of you once again for the earnings conference call for the quarter four of FY2024. During this quarter, we maintained a revenue growth of around 10% from INR 703 crores to INR 772 crores on a year-on-year basis. The growth in revenue is mainly on account of growth in volumes in goods and food business. The volumes were increased by around 10%, from 1,031,000 tons to 1,130,000 tons in the current quarter. The overall growth in volumes is mainly coming from enhancement in our branch network in goods and food business. In last financial year, we added around 83 branches, and these branches have contributed around 3% to the total tonnage in quarter four of FY2024. Around 184 branches which were opened in financial year 2023 have contributed around 7% to our FY24 tonnage. Apart from the expansion in branch network, the increase in contribution from the existing customers also supported our growth. Further, our customer base has increased from 8,000,000 customers at the beginning of the financial year to 9,000,000 customers by the end of the year due to shift from dependency on the unorganized transport service providers to organized transport service providers, on account of better service level, and also increase in GST compliances. On the other side, the impact of slower demand in southern states due to unfavorable monsoon spread has impacted our volume growth in the earlier period of this year, and the same has continued in the current quarter also. Accordingly, commodities related to agro-sector, etc., growth were below the average growth of our tonnage. However, the exponential, exponential growth in tonnage from east, north, and north-east states on account of expansion in branch network in these locations has supported us to maintain our overall tonnage growth close to at around 10% during the current quarter. During the quarter, there was an increase in total realization per ton by around 1% from INR 6,000 from INR 6,650 rupees to INR 6,724 rupees. The increase is mainly on account of change in route mix in our overall operations. Otherwise, the realization is almost muted in the last year. Since we have not increased the freight rate in our segment of operations, since the freight rates are predominantly linked with the retail fuel rates in India, and the fuel rates were constant, we were unable to increase the freight rate. Due to this, the increase in other costs, other than fuel, has not been passed down to the customers, and the same has impacted on the EBITDA margin in the current quarter as compared to the last year. The key changes in the operational costs, which are reasons to decrease in EBITDA margins, are: the major impact is on account of increase in employee cost. The employee cost, as a percentage, is the total revenue increase by around from 15.4%-16.6%. The overall employee cost expenses increased from INR 108 crores to INR 128 crores. The increase in employee cost is mainly on account of annual increments effective from September 2023 and also internal promotions on a selective basis. The number of employees also increased by around 1,132 numbers, as compared to the last year, and mainly in, on account of expansion in branch network and also due to increase in number of, drivers because the number of owned vehicles has increased. The vehicle repair and maintenance costs, consumption of spares, tire costs increased due to increase in owned vehicles, and also increase in contribution in kilometers by the owned vehicles. The toll charges further increased due to increase in toll plazas from 1,257 numbers to 1,383 numbers, and also due to increase in toll rates. The rent expenses increased due to increase in number of branches and increase in spare space in key transshipment hubs during the year. We increased the space in key locations considering our expected growth in tonnage for the subsequent period. The same is resulting in lower utilization of space in the current quarter and impacting the EBITDA margins. The loading and unloading expenses increased mainly on account of increase in the loading and unloading rates. The lorry charges also increased due to some extent on account of increase in kilometers by the hired vehicles. On the other side, the fuel cost, which is a major cost in our operation, has decreased. As a percentage to the revenue, it has decreased from 31%-29% in spite of increasing kilometers covered by the owned vehicles in the overall kilometers operated by the company. The reduction in fuel cost is mainly on account of decrease in average fuel procurement cost from INR 89 it was there in Q4 FY23. Now it has been reduced to INR 87 in Q4 of FY24. And also, the bulk purchase of the fuel from the refineries at a discounted price has increased from 28%-31% in the current quarter. The EBIT of the company decreased from INR 73 crore to INR 50 crore. The decrease in EBITDA margins and increase in depreciation and finance costs are the reasons for decrease in EBIT and EBIT margins. The depreciation and amortization cost has increased by 28% from INR 45 crore to INR 58 crore due to increase in CapEx and also increase in ROU as per Ind AS 116 accounting of rental expenses of long-term lease agreements entered for expansion in branch network, also enhancement in branch and transshipment space during the year, during the quarter. The finance cost has increased from INR 13 crore to INR 22 crore owing to increase in net debt from INR 167 crore to INR 262 crore on a year-on-year basis, and increase in the lease liability as per Ind AS 116 on account of increase in the rental expenses. Because of, you know, reduction in, again, the EBIT margin, the PBT also decreased, and the reduction of PBT has further impacted on the reduction on PAT margins. On sequential basis, we maintained the increase in revenue and increase in revenues mainly on account of growth in tonnage again. The key changes on a sequential basis are improvement in margins. The EBITDA margin has increased from 13% to 14%. The improvement in EBITDA margin is on account of the decrease in fuel cost, which is a major cost in our operations. The fuel cost as a percentage to the revenue is reduced by almost 1% from 30% to 29% due to decrease in diesel procurement costs from INR 88 per liter to INR 87 per liter. The cost per liter has decreased due to reduction in fuel rates and further increase in bulk purchase from the refineries from 22% in Q3 to 32% in Q4. The next major expenses, which is the employee cost, also decreased as a percentage to the revenue from 17% to 16.6%. The major portion of the employee cost is fixed in nature, and most of the increments, which were periodical in nature, have been carried out in the earlier period of the year, and that has been resulted in a decrease in percentage to the revenue on a sequential basis. The other expenditure, which supported the increase in margins, are decrease in tire costs, bridge and toll expenses, and other expenses. So the increase in EBITDA margin and also decrease in depreciation costs as a percentage to the revenue supported the increase in our EBIT margins on a sequential basis. The finance cost also decreased on account of decrease in net debt, and also we maintained the lease liability at a par level on a quarter-on-quarter basis, and the same has resulted in increase in PBT and PAT margins in the current quarter. For the full financial year, we completed FY 2024 with a revenue of around INR 2,910 crores with a growth rate at 9%. Again, the entire growth has come only from the increase in volumes in our goods and food business. The growth in revenue in the current year is not at par with the estimated level and impacted on account of slower demand in southern states due to unfavorable monsoon spread in the current year, due to which some of the key commodities, including the cloth and textile materials, and also commodities related to agro-sectors, growth were below the average growth of tonnage. However, we have seen some exponential growth in the tonnage in north, east, and northeastern states on account of expansion in branch network, and these locations have supported us to maintain our overall tonnage growth close to at around 10%. The slower growth in tonnage and no improvements in realization per ton due to maintenance of the same freight rates during the year resulted in a decrease in EBITDA margins, and the same has resulted in a decrease in EBIT and PAT margins as well. In quarter four, we invested around INR 67 crore in CapEx, which is predominantly for the purchase of additional trucks. The total investment in CapEx in the financial year 2024 reached around INR 290 crore. Again, it is predominantly for the purchase of additional trucks. With this, our owned vehicle capacity has reached around 8,674.5 tons capacity as of March 31st, 2024. Even after investment of INR 290 crore in CapEx, the net debt of the company increased only from INR 167 crore to INR 262 crore. The strong cash flows from operations have supported us during the year for investment in CapEx without much increase in debt level. Also, the reduction in net debt from INR 271 crore as of December 31st to INR 262 crore as of March 31st. Going forward, we are accelerating the increase in our branch network further, especially in the untapped market, which will support to increase our growth in tonnage. We wish to state here that about 184 branches we opened in FY23 have contributed around 7% of tonnage in FY24, and all these branches are working profitably. These branches have already crossed the breakeven. In FY24, we opened around 83 branches, and these have contributed almost around 1.5% to the tonnage. We are expecting that these branches will have further potential to increase in growth rate in the coming days. On account of expansion in network and increase in GST compliances, our customer base has increased from 8,000,000 customers to 9,000,000 customers. Based on the recent reports, there are positive outlooks towards the monsoon season in the coming year also, and we hope that the same will support in growth in commodities, which were underperformed in financial year 2024. However, in quarter one of the current year, in the April and May period, we faced some performance impact because of some disturbances in our operations on account of shortened attendance by the drivers and loading and unloading labors, especially in the metro cities like Chennai, Bangalore, Pune, Ahmedabad, etc. Most of these categories of staff are belonging to different geographies of the country, and they have traveled to their native places after the announcement of general elections in India. Gradually, this issue is resolving considering the completion of elections in most of the places, and the operations are normalizing. On the cost side, we are having good control on fuel costs, which is a major cost in our operations. Any approach and change in the fuel rate will benefit us to revise our freight rates considering the increase in other expenses as well. The rent and employee costs are fixed expenses. The impact of these expenses on the margin is much higher in the current year due to tonnage growth being not at an expected level. The same expenses as a percentage to the revenue will gradually decline as against the growth in tonnage in the coming days, and it will support to increase in EBITDA margins to some extent. This has been already evidenced in quarter four performance of this year on a sequential basis. Please also note that increase in depreciation and finance costs in the current year are fixed and periodical in nature, and expecting a gradually reduction as a percentage to the revenue, which will support to increase EBIT and PBT margins. As mentioned in the presentations, we are concentrating more on the addition of trailers in our fleet that will result in an increase in turnaround time of the vehicles and the increase in the utilization of drivers, etc. Further, we are monitoring the loading pattern of vehicles in our transshipment hubs on a real-time basis, which will further support to enhance our capacity utilization of our vehicles. So with these initial comments now, I request participants to open for questions and answers. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital India. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Sir, we used to share the numbers on biodiesel. So how is currently the opportunity in biodiesel, which we used to get advantage earlier? No, currently, we are not using biodiesel because, the cost of the biodiesel is, much, much higher as compared to the bulk purchase. So that's the reason. Instead of, biodiesel, we are more concentrating on, purchase of fuel through the refineries. So as I informed in the Q4, that percentage of bulk purchase has been reduced to around 32%. Right. And just to give some sense of competition because of what we are hearing from the market, there are some pressures on basically because of competition where even some express players are also reducing the rates to gain the volume. So to some extent, although we are not into time-sensitive, but are we seeing like some pressure from the competition or how is the overall competition in the market since the volumes are not growing as expected? Yeah. Competition is again the part of our business. And basically, what's happening, one is we have express cargo companies also actually, they are coming and offering the rates like what the non-time-sensitive rates are. And basically, that will bring you know a lot of pressure on the margin side on their side. Apart from that, there are some, you know, some local, you know, operator s also increasing. In the sense, on a decent-sized operator, actually, they are coming forward. Even on some route basis and even on geography basis, yes, competition is increasing. Keeping this in mind, how we are doing, basically, we are enhancing our network. That's the reason, you know, most of the branches have already in FY23, we've opened in FY24. Aggressively in the current year, actually, most of the branches, we are planning to open in quarter one only because we identified those places, and those are very potential areas where actually we can enhance our business in those locations. So that's the reason, even on the other side, we are also expanding our network and going aggressively in the market. Okay. Last question on trailer addition. So how different is, like, what are typical tonnage capacities of these trailers and how, it can add value to us in terms of compared to normal, heavy vehicles? Yeah. In trailers, actually, each engine will have, you know, multiple trailers. In the sense, the trailer is different, the engine is different. Here in, you know, rigid vehicle, what will happen, the vehicle has to go and wait for loading and unloading activities also in the transshipment hubs. Here, what will happen, the engine will go there, it will, you know, detach that unloading trailer, and wherever the filled trailers will be there, it will carry the filled trailer and move to the next destination. So because of that, the waiting time at a hub for loading and unloading activities is not there for the trailers. Moreover, the drivers are also happy that actually those vehicles are covering more kilometers rather than waiting for this loading and unloading time. So that's the reason, actually, we are more concentrating on those categories of the vehicles. Currently, our trailer capacities are in the range of around 25-30 tons capacity. In that range, we are operating. We are looking for some higher capacities, some advanced vehicles also in this category wherever we are having, you know, both the sides in inflow and long routes, especially like Delhi, Bangalore, Delhi, Hyderabad, Delhi, Chennai. In these routes, actually, we are planning to introduce even larger the big-sized trailers also. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krupashankar NJ from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. So first off, on your overall FY24 numbers, can you quantify what would be the extent of growth from perhaps the north and east and northeast market versus south and west market? And also on subsectors also, if you can classify what are the sectors, for example, textiles and agro, and what has been the growth in respective sectors? Yeah. Basically, on full-year basis, you can see that south zone, which is a major, you know, contributor to our overall tonnage, on an original origination basis, actually, south zone contributed around growth is around 2%. And the north is around 15%. And the east is around 20%. Northeast is around 25%. And the west is around 10%. Got it. And with respect to the underlying sectors, sir, if you can quantify how textiles have grown. Again, though, on an overall basis, the cloth, the textile and cloth, which is contributing almost around 17%-18%, on a full-year basis, it has grown by around 6%. And the agro commodities were grown by around 4%-5%. And the remaining commodities growth were in the range of around 10%-12%, 13%-14% like that. Okay. So basically, with the you know, we are looking at one Q1 getting much impacted because of driver shortage. How would you rate your outlook for FY25? Because, you know, are you hiring more lorries on a higher basis, on a temporary basis to fulfill demand, or are you seeing you know, you're letting go of this tonnage, and maybe from Q2 onwards, you'll start ramping up? What's your thought process over there? Yeah. It's a temporary scenario, I guess, now. What was there during, you know, April last week, that scenario is not there as of today. But still, you know, most of these people have traveled to their native places, and they are coming back to the working places. And we are hoping that in the next weekdays also, this issue will be resolved. So on a temporary basis, yes, some service levels have been hampered. And because of that, see, overall performance, to some extent, actually, it may impact in April and May. But again, we are hoping that it will bounce back very soon. And once this issue is resolved, the demand is there in the market. So that will continue. And we are hoping that, you know, on a full-year basis, this impact will not you know, on an overall basis, it is not at a considerable level. That's what we are hoping. Okay. So your outlook on volume growth for FY25 still holds at 12%-15% as sort of a number, or is there an expectation of a relatively lower number because of. Considering the current scenario, yes, we are at that level. In the sense, the outlook in the first phase concerned, just as I mentioned about the branch network has been expanded. And moreover, those branches are performing very well. And aggressively, we are planning to open branches in the Q1 of this current financial year. So all these matters definitely will hold good for the remaining financial year. And at the end of the on a full-year basis, yes, definitely, we can expect around 12%-15% volume growth. Got it, sir. Last question from my side. With respect to fleet addition, I noted that most of the addition has come in the 10-15 tons, you know, vehicle category. We had earlier placed orders for higher tonnage vehicles as such. Is there any change in thought process with respect to fleet addition wherein we are inducting more smaller fleet, or am I reading something wrong here? No. The more suitable vehicles for our operations are in the category of 15-20 tons. So that's where, actually, we are concentrating most. Okay. But in the starting of the year, we had stated that we'll be adding more on Ashok Leyland 3120 format truck, right, which was larger than 20-tonner truck, right, which was a predominant portion of our fleet addition. Am I mistaken, sir? No. Even if you see our order, most of the vehicles are part of this category only, up to 20 tons. Okay. Okay. So when you state the capacity, that's a net tonnage which can be carried by fleet. That's the way to look at it, isn't it? It is a net. And that code what you indicated, it is a gross weight of the vehicles. Got it. Got it. Okay, sir. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue, sir. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Mangal from Rajesh Mangal & Co. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, what artificial intelligence and machine learning we are used to enhance our EBITDA impact? Yeah. Basically, in operational matters, yes, we are bringing a lot of new technology aspects, basically about the monitoring of the CCTVs which are installed in the transshipment hubs and branches. Centrally, we are monitoring. And that automation is already on in transshipment, and we are going to extend it to branches also. And second thing, see, about the vehicle loading pattern, how the mixing of goods are happening, how the mixing of heavy and light goods are happening at a branch and transshipment hubs. Currently, we are concentrating in some of the selective transshipment hubs. And again, we have established a system that as a centrally monitoring system, we will monitor how their loading pattern is happening. So accordingly, we can guide the people that wherever, you know, it's at all, suppose, underutilization of the capacity or something, immediately, the system will inform them that still there is a scope for loading in that particular vehicle. So accordingly, after initiating all these systems, again, our utilization levels have further improved. So the moment things improve at the transshipment hub and the loading pattern, then definitely, the carrying capacity in a particular load or particular vehicle will be increased. And that will lead to increase in the performance. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Sir, second question is, you have already told that you want to add a number of branches, many number of branches in the Q1 itself. So how many branches you are expecting, and how many you have already added in the Q1 right now? Yeah. Till date, we already opened around 40 branches. Normally, we used to open around 20-25 branches on a quarterly basis. Now, till date, we have already opened around 40+ branches. Further branches will be added before the end of the quarter. The purpose of this addition of the new location is we have already identified the potentiality of business in these locations. So instead of waiting for further time, we are taking the surveys have been completed, and considering the potentiality, we are opening in the current quarter itself so that these branches' contribution will be there for the entire year and for the further period. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sorry, I missed the number, sir. 40 already opened, and how many will open? No. Now, 40+. Before this quarter, it may reach around 50+ branches. Okay. Okay. Sir, third thing and last, what is the GST rate we are charging to our customer? Yeah. We are operating under a reverse charge mechanism. Actually, the rate of GST is applicable on service is 5%. But we are not collecting any GST from the customers. The customer has to pay at their end at a 5% again, and they can claim input tax credit. Sir, pardon me. I am a GST practitioner myself. Okay. And I think we should convert this model to 12% charging. And by that way, we will get so many of input tax credit. And that will increase our profit PAT too much. Sir, we examined the you know, we examined this option. In fact, we are closely working with the government ministry also. And the thing here is that we analyzed. We made a survey for customers and everything. Based on that outcome, what rate we are already practicing at a 5% on a reverse charge, that is beneficial to us compared to the 12%. Based on that study, actually, we are continuing with a 5% under Reverse Charge Mechanism. Sir, I am requesting you to please repeat, please recheck these things. And if we will charge 12% GST, then we will get so much of Input Tax Credit, and it will help to increase our PAT immensely. Right now, there are many patterns: 12% forward charge, 5% forward charge, and 5% reverse charge. Okay? No doubt, we have to comply a little bit, but our PAT will increase too much. See, we are adding too much of CapEx year by year. And it will be beneficial, sir. Please recheck this. This is my request. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vinit Mata, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Please. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Good afternoon, everybody. Last year, in the conference call, it was told that our fleet size will increase. We will have a lot of more branches. A lot of business from unorganized sector will move to organized sector. Hence, the revenue should shoot up. But the growth is not as much. So what is the reason and how this thing will be taken care of in the future? Yeah. The reasons have been already explained, sir. See, basically, even on a zone-wide contribution, we explained. The South zone, which is a major contribution to our overall business, that South zone has not been improved. The thing here is mainly because the demand from the south has been directly impacted because of the lower monthly income. Otherwise, on the other side, the addition of the customers, it's already in place. See, in the beginning of the year, the customer base was around 8 lakh customers. Now, it has been added to 9 lakhs. And similarly, we opened up a branch in untapped market. Again, that contribution is coming. And since I mentioned, even the contribution from in those branches, only those quantities have been supported to increase our growth in the overall tonnage. So that's the reason. The main reason for the growth impact in the current year is only on account of the southern region and which impacted because of the four months. So are we the only affected party? So what can you tell us about the market share? Has it gone down, the organized sector market share? Has it gone down, or is it still stable, or is it going for us? Yeah. Especially last year, it impacted everyone, especially from the southern region. In our case, what is happening is that it's contributing the major volume in our overall tonnage. So we are saying we are the affected party? We are more affected because the contribution from the south region is more. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anshul Agrawal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. My question is on the CapEx trend, sir. Any guidance for FY25 CapEx numbers and on vehicle addition as well? Yeah. To grow at around, again, 12%-15% growth in tonnage, definitely, we need to have a CapEx in the range of around INR 300 crores. Okay. And this would be predominantly vehicle CapEx, or? Yeah. This is for the vehicles. Okay. So INR 300 crores in entirety would be on vehicles? Yeah. Got it. And our cost per vehicle, sir, on an average, would range around INR 3 million per truck? Yeah. Around INR 30-INR 35 lakh rupees. Okay. INR 30-INR 35 lakh rupees. And any investment in transshipment hub in the current year that we are expecting? Yeah. We may invest in one or two properties, but nothing is concrete as of today. So in the meantime, as and when the things are materialized, definitely, we are going to inform that. So if I got you correctly, INR 300 crore additions in the fleet and with an average cost of around INR 35 lakhs per vehicle, are we looking to add a very sizable number of vehicles in the base? Because FY2024, we added roughly around, say, net addition was only 323 fleet, right? Yeah. See, some of the vehicles we scrapped in the last year, and that process will continue even in the current year. Wherever, you know, the older vehicles are there and wherever there is a high maintenance cost. And definitely, instead of incurring those maintenance costs, actually, we are planning to scrap those vehicles. Got it. So. Yeah. Got it. So the fleet additions, the gross fleet additions would be roughly 800-900 as per the number that you have given? Yeah. Around 800-900 vehicles. Got it. Very helpful. Sir, my second question is on its slightly qualitative in nature. Have you undertaken any analysis that, you know, at a next level of volume threshold, the cost of owning a truck versus leasing outside ferry becomes lorries become beneficial in terms of returns or in terms of margins? How do we look at this? Because. See, at the moment, the more volumes are there, definitely, the owning of the vehicles is a good option. Since we are growing in the volumes, then definitely, we will continue to own the vehicles and to add the fleet. Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you so much. Sir, just one last question. Our FY25 number, branch addition number for the whole year would be still 100 despite the aggression that we are seeing in quarter one? Yes, sir. More branches have been given, and in subsequent period, there will be lesser additions. Got it. On a full year, this is definitely it will be in the range of around 100+ branches. Got it. And these branches would be added in the north and the east region only? Yeah. Especially in the eastern market, north market, north eastern. Got it. Thank you so much, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohit from Samatva Investments. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, see, recently, we had an interaction with an express logistics company where they were saying that the small MSME commoditized players, they don't differentiate a lot between the express and the LTL segment. So I just want to know I just wanted your views, your comments on that statement. Is that also does that hold true for you also? Basically, see, this SME segment, what they look is one is these are not time-sensitive commodities. What these customers always look into is even see, in our case, see, all 1,200+ branches, we are having a storage facility at a delivery point. We are giving a free storage facility up to seven days. So even after seven days, also, many customers, especially in cloth and other category of commodities, see, we are giving a free storage facility given up to 20, 25, 30 days in some locations. The reason is customers, actually, they want the commodity as and when they request instead of the moment it reaches to the destination. So for express cargo companies, the issue is they cannot shift to this model. The reason is they do not have enough infrastructure facility at a delivery point. The purpose of this express cargo company is door pickup and door delivery. The moment it reaches to the delivery point or delivery transshipment hub, they have to deliver it to the customers. So complying or keeping this into mind and giving these kind of services, it may become difficult for the express cargo companies. But the customers, what they expect, they want commodities as and when they want rather than as per our schedule. Got it. Understood. Sir, sir, my second question would be that I missed the point on how much was the growth from the South India market this entire year for financial year 2024? Around 2%. 2%. Okay. Sir, and going forward in FY25, what will be your growth estimates for the textile segment and the agro segment considering both of them contribute around one-third of our total revenue? So has the demand have you seen demand picking up? What's your outlook on that? Yeah. Cloth, really, it has been picked up. See, if you see in our first nine months, till December, the growth was in the range of around 3%-4%. And cumulatively, now, it has been reached to 6%. Means in Q4, the textile growth is, again, normalized. It has been reached to 9%-10% growth. So we are expecting that the textile, which was impacted in the last year, again, the growth in textile, we are expecting at least around 15%-15% in the current year. That's one. And agro commodities, still, the improvement is not there. It is the rainy season yet to start now. So since most of the reports are giving positive outlook on the monsoon in the current year, we are expecting that definitely that growth, even agro commodities, may grow in the double digit in the current year. Got it. Understood. This is one last question on the debt part. So you highlighted the CapEx for FY25 will be around INR 300 crore. So how much will be through debt? And on the overall debt part, will there be any reduction? How much are you seeing the debt increase in the next financial year? See, even with capital expenditure of INR 300 crore, our debt level will not increase from the current level. The reason is we are having a good cash flows. And see, on a periodical basis, there will be some moment. See, if we decide to add more vehicle in this quarter, the debt will increase to some extent. And again, it will normalize in the subsequent quarter. Again, debt level will come down. Since we are having a cash flow of almost close to around INR 350 crore-INR 400 crore free cash flows, so that will support to add this CapEx. And definitely, the debt level will not increase from the current level. Got it, sir. Thank you so much for answering all the questions. All the. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikas Khatri from Aviral. Please go ahead. The question is, first, you have said that you will be deploying more trailer. What's the difference of average monthly running of tractor trailer model versus a fixed chassis model? Second question is mine related to time-sensitive service. Somebody asked that time-sensitive player, express players, are trying to penetrate into the LTL or the market which is non-time-sensitive. Does the VRL have any plan to reverse? To accountant, means to enter into some time-sensitive service or some expertized service is not completely time-sensitive, something which was done earlier also in VRL? So these are the two. Your question is a little bit not audible. But what I understood from question number two is about the time-sensitive service. See, even if you compare the express cargo versus non-express, see, most of the corporate clients, actually, what they want, they want door pickup and door delivery service. Even in our cases, that is what the express cargo companies take, the time commitment. In our case, what is happening, even we are giving door pickup, door delivery service. And out of the total business what we are doing, almost around 35%-40% of business, still, we are doing a door pickup, door delivery. And even the same customers, the customer who are seeking for an express cargo service, actually, they are with us because our service, if they compare with express cargo companies and us, even our service level is much better as compared to them. That's the reason, actually, almost around 20%-25% of our business, we are having a contract with the corporate clients, and they are with us from the long time. And the second thing, when it comes to cost-wise, cost-wise, actually, in case of door pickup, door delivery convenience, our rates versus the express cargo company rates are not much different. Because see, for the normal general parcel rate, what we are carrying, if you add a door collection and door delivery charges, it will match to the express cargo rate. So on an overall basis, if we are doing door pickup, door delivery to the corporate, it is nothing but the faster service. And definitely, it is an express cargo company we are competing with them. And my first question was related. Am I audible now? Yeah. So my first question was, average monthly running of tractor trailer model versus fixed vehicle model, especially considering the either single driver on board or double driver on board? No. All trailers, see, our policy is all vehicles, whether it's a trailer vehicle or other than trailer vehicle. If the route is more than 400-500 kilometers, definitely, we are putting a double driver. And in trailers, most of these trailers are operating beyond 400 kilometers destination. So all trailers are having a double driver. And in terms of kilometers, definitely, the trailer kilometers is obviously, it will be around 1.5 times more than the normal vehicles. Average monthly parking? See, about daily, if you take normal vehicles, we are covering almost around 300 km. So trailer will cover around 450-500 km per day. So still, it will be much lesser than express industry, which covers around 750 km on fixed chassis? No. See, I am talking about for all the routes, average. If you take on a longer route, the kilometers, obviously, will be much more than what I am indicating. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krupashankar NJ from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Thank you for the follow-up, sir. Just one more question on the trailers part of it. I can see here that the trailer addition has been consistent at around 50 trucks per annum, at least for the last two years. Is there, first of all, a plan to add more trailers in this particular year? What should be the ideal proportion of trailers in the entire fleet mix, given we operate both on intra-zone as well as interstate movement? What would be the ideal or the maximum potential mix of trailers in your ecosystem? Added on to that, also wanted to check with you if all the hubs which we have-how many of them would be trailer competent, I mean, with the ability to handle trailers? See, about the number, the second part is more relevant here because wherever the hubs are more relevant or more competent to adopt this trailer practice, only in those locations, actually, we are adding the trailers. And moreover, these are all high capacity. As of now, see, the average is around 25-30-ton capacity. But what we are planning, still, higher capacity trailers. For that, again, the number of hubs further, it will be restricted. So that's the reason. See, instead of calculating based on the number of trailers, I can say that at least around in the near future, we may reach around 10% of overall carrying capacity what we are having. It will be through trailers in the sense currently, we are having around 86,000-ton capacity for vehicles. So going forward, it may reach to around 10% of the overall capacity may reach to the trailers. Okay. And how many hubs are right now trailer-enabled? See, transshipment hub, around 15-20 hubs where we can use the trailers. Okay. So does it mandate that you will invest more in larger hubs in specific locations, or are you saying that for the moment, 15-20 hubs, let it scale up, and then we'll think about expanding up? No. That is, again, a continuous process. But currently, what we are concentrating on, wherever it is possible, wherever the hubs are feasible to adopt these vehicles, where we are adding or introducing the trailers. Understood. Understood. So my second question was on pricing. Now, typically, your annual hike, what was observed was [that it] comes in the month of June. Any thoughts around the price hikes which you would be planning to take, or are you deferring it until after the elections or with a favorable outlook? What is the thought process around that, sir? No. Basically, the thought process is very clear because the freight rates are directly linked with the fuel rates. So it all depends on the moment in the fuel rates. And if a substantial increase in the fuel rate, then definitely, we look forward to increase the freight rates along with to take care of increasing other expenses. That's what the thought process is. Until the fuel rate changes drastically, then the freight rates will not change. So, but the fuel rates have come down by almost INR 2 towards the end of March. So that benefit, we have been able to retain, right, sir? Yeah. That, actually, we are not passing on. You are not passing on. So the next indicator is only when the price hike comes through. Okay. Sorry. The price increase in diesel comes through. [audio distortion] Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Srinidhi from HSBC. Please go ahead. Srinidhi, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. Hi. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Srinidhi, may I ask, EBITDA margin adjusted for the lease accounting, margin before Ind AS accounting for FY 24 and last year? Yes. Around 4% lesser EBITDA if you remove the Ind AS adjustments. So both for last year as well as this year, right? 4% lower. Yeah. And then companies to operate lot higher margins, right? Before this, we used to have 16%-17% margin. We are operating in more of a 10%-11% margin. A lot of these has come through overhead, right? Employee cost going higher. So do you think that you probably structurally can operate at about 10% margin Ind AS adjusted, or you can go back to more of a 13%-14% kind of margin as the demand environment improves? That's my question. Basically, improvement in margin is possible. See, that's the reason last year, see, we expected the turnover growth at least around 15%+. Since the turnover growth is not at the expected level, again, it impacted on the margin side because most of the fixed expenses like employee cost, rent expenses, these are all actually we increase the space in selective area. But unfortunately, the turnover is not carried through that increase in the space. That's the reason, actually, that additional burden came on and impacted on the margins. Similarly, employee cost, see, most of the employee costs are in fixed in nature. The moment turnover growth happens, then proportionately, it will not increase to the extent of revenue. So again, it will come down as a percentage to the revenue. So since the turnout growth is missing in the last year, some impact is there on the margin. Otherwise, if growth in turnout at our expected level, then definitely, our EBITDA margin will be back to the original. Okay. And what trend levels or margin do you think you can go back to? Even if the turnout growth, see, at least around 12%-15%, then again, our EBITDA margin will be around 16%-17%. These are post-Ind AS, right? More of a 12%-13% pre-Ind AS. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for answering my questions. All the very best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Yeah. Thank you all participants for your patience hearing. Again, see, we are having some aggressive plans in the current year also, especially on the opening of branches and to add more number of customer base into our foray. So considering that, except some little disturbance as of today on account of some elections and the labor impact, especially on the drivers and the loading-unloading space, we are already prepared. Our capacity has been enhanced. Our branch network is enhancing. Then definitely, we are hoping better days in the near future, in the days to come. With this, actually, I would like to conclude the call, and thank you. On behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.