Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the CIR H1 2022 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Rodolfo De Benedetti, Chairman of CIR. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome. I'm gonna take a few minutes of your time to just go through the decisions that were taken at this morning's board, as well as to comment the 6-month results that we just published. I'll start with the extraordinary part, which is that the board this morning decided to call an extraordinary shareholders' meeting that will be held at the beginning of September. That will propose to the shareholders to cancel the bulk of the treasury shares, i.e., 170 million shares out of the 190 that the company owns today. As well as to propose a reduction of the statutory capital by EUR 218 million and the creation of distributable reserves with those EUR 280 million. The last thing is a new authorization that will replace the existing one that was given earlier this year for a limited amount, given the limited reserves that were available. The new authorization will be for the maximum statutory limit, which is, as you know, 20% of share count, which is 220 million shares. The purpose of this is to grant the company and the board the flexibility in the future of managing, you know, capital allocation in the form of either dividend distributions and/or buyback programs, as we have done in the last few years. As we were not anymore in a position of doing for the lack of distributable reserves, as you well know. This decision again is allowing the company to have this flexibility and this instrument. Nothing has been decided so far by the board. The shareholders' meeting will have to vote on this proposal. Should this proposal be approved by the shareholders, the board in the future will have that flexibility available. Concerning the 6-month numbers, we just issued a press release, so you have seen the numbers. I don't think it makes much sense to comment on the consolidated numbers. I think we should maybe focus on commenting the control company's results. Those of Sogefi are known already. The company had a board last week and issued a press release. Today we communicate the KOS 6-month numbers as well as the CIR parent company results in terms of holding company cost and financial results. I'll comment later. I think in terms of outlook, what is important is that what we see, as we said in the recent quarters, is a progressive but relatively slow comeback of the case activity following the reduction in volumes that COVID provoked for acute. This is happening more rapidly. I would think in the course of this year, you know, we should be back to the volumes pre-COVID. This is taking a bit more time in nursing homes as we earlier said, and we believe that we will need at least 2023 to go back to the previous numbers. The situation is fairly different between Italy, which is actually, you know, had a more severe fall but has a more reactive path to recovery. Germany is softer. You know, some of this softness was compensated by public support, both in Italy and in Germany, which we see as phasing out starting from the H2 of the year because of the situation of the pandemic. You know, in a word or in 2 words, slow recover. JC, you know, I'll comment the results, but we see a fairly low visibility in terms of the market for the H2 of the year. I've seen that many of our clients, as well as our competitors, have commented, you know, in the same way. You know, there's very little visibility. There are still production bottlenecks in terms of the supply chain. There is a you know, fairly weak market on the demand side, particularly in Europe, with some you know, brighter spots in other areas like the U.S., India and China. I would say that the other element which I'll comment in more detail is that obviously the financial component of our results, so the management of our liquid resources had a negative result in the H1 of the year. Every asset class, be it fixed income or be it equities or be it, you know, hedge funds, have been negatively affected by the increased volatility, by increased interest rates, by increased inflation expectations, and by lower equity markets. On page 6, you have the P&L. Again, I won't comment line by line. Maybe just a comment on the financial result that you know last year was negative EUR 10 million, pretty much in line with H1 2019, and this year is negative almost EUR 30 million. This is the sum of the net interest income at the operating company's level and the holding company financial management. If you break it down, the financial cost at the operating subsidiaries is lower this year by about EUR 2 million compared to H1 last year, because we had lower average net debt. We have slightly higher IFRS 16 accounting, mainly because of the increased real estate usage with long-term contracts by KOS. The holding company financial assets had a negative contribution of EUR 5 million this year compared to a positive one of EUR 12.5 million in the same period of last year. This is almost entirely due to fair market value adjustments. Those are not realized results or realized losses, but this is fair market value adjustment on the portfolio of financial assets. I'll give you some more color on that later. The holding company costs are in line with the same period last year. Those are, you know, the main comments on this page 6. On page 7, in terms of the net financial position, no really substantial changes. A slightly worse net financial position at CIR mainly for, you know, CapEx investments during the first 6 months of the year. On the other hand, a better one at Sogefi, working capital was the main driver here. The holding company decreases from EUR 332 million at the end of December 2021 to EUR 313 million, and this is the result of the fair market value adjustment that I mentioned earlier. You have also the including the IFRS 16 where you see the big component there is cost because of the long-term leases on the real estate. On page 8, you have a simplified holding company balance sheet where you have the adjustment for the operating companies which is due to their results in the 6 months. Fixed asset is the real estate that she owns. The private equity portfolio increased its mark from EUR 60 million to EUR 64.4 million. Basically, you know, distributions and new investments were pretty much the same at slightly less than EUR 5 million, and there was a positive fair value adjustment of EUR 4 million in the period. Nothing to report on other investments, no meaningful change there. The net cash I already commented on. I will now go to the operating businesses, starting from costs, page 10 and following. On page 11, you have the P&L for the first 6 months, where you see that, you know, EBITDA is slightly lower, actually lower than H1 2021. This is the EBITDA post IFRS 16. So if you wanna go back to the previous measure, it's EUR 22 million, which is a fairly low level. EBIT is EUR 11.5 million from 21 in the same period of last year. Same period of last year included some extraordinary items. We'll get to an adjusted EBIT number. On the asset side, the net book value of the real estate has increased slightly from the end of December, and you know, as well as the fair value. The financing on that real estate is pretty much in line with the end of last year. I will go to page 12. You have here number of beds and occupancy. As you can see, there's been a meaningful increase in occupancy in Italian nursing homes. The average occupancy for the first 6 months was close to 76%, and it's about 80% at the end of June. You know, the trend is a growing trend there, which is what drives also the increase in revenues. Rehab is you know, here occupancy is probably less meaningful. Good increase in revenues from you know, pre-COVID, but lower profitability. Acute care you know, quite stable with slightly higher revenues. Germany is more of a challenging situation on the occupancy, which is actually down. Here, as you might recall, we were compensated, and we've been compensated up to June 30 this year, from public support. This support was announced to be finished at the end of June. Starting from July first, you know, there probably most probably won't be any more you know public support, which is kind of you know understandable given the evolution of the pandemic. Medipass India is a leftover from our medical diagnosis business that, as you know, was sold. The European business was sold. This is a business that we have targeted for disposal. We needed to wait for the numbers to recover from the pandemic, and we are still planning to dispose of that business. I would say overall, there's been a margin pressure in this business. I think there are 2 issues. One is the occupancy, which I commented earlier. Frankly, from what we see, you know, we do not see any reason why occupancy going forward should not go back to the pre-pandemic levels. We think it's just a question of time. We don't think that there is, you know, any fundamental structural change in the business and in why people you know use a structure like ours. What has certainly happened is that the profitability of this business at the same level of occupancy you know has been under pressure because basically you know we have seen a pretty much across the board increase in costs. We were able only marginally to increase our prices. This clearly has had a negative impact on profitability. We are working very closely with the management team, and we are going through, you know, a deep analysis structure by structure to understand the reasons. The good news is that there are structures that are back to, you know, good profitability levels, good occupancy levels, but there are structures that are not. The question is, you know, how to make sure that we have a more, you know, a better average across the board. This is an exercise that, you know, is going on. I think in the next few months we'll have, you know, a bunch of plans, concrete operating plans on how to address that issue. On page 13, you have a breakdown of the business in terms of the various activities, the various countries. You see the margins compared to H1 of last year. You know, I think I don't have much to comment other than what I just said. There are some non-recurring impacts. We had some of them in H1 last year for about EUR 12 million. When you compare the first two halves of the year, you have to take into account that. We're certainly not satisfied about the overall level of profitability. Again, you know, we are counting on both an increase in occupancy, but probably as importantly, you know, an action plan to intervene on those structures that don't have sufficient profitability levels. KOS, page 14. KOS managed to have a very satisfactory performance in the H1 of the year. We are pretty much in terms of normalized EBIT in line with the H1 of last year, which had some positive extraordinary elements which were non-recurring. The business was basically flat in terms of volumes, and we're able to achieve a 12% growth in revenues. Roughly, 3/4 of that pricing, and on 1/4 of that foreign exchange, mainly dollar. For all the sales that were generated outside of Europe, we had a positive FX variance this year. The market is very weak. Very weak. Little visibility. Huge pressure from higher raw material prices. I think the company has done an extraordinarily successful job of basically isolating the P&L from that higher raw material and energy prices. The combination of the 2 were about EUR 55 million higher than the same period of the last year. They were able to basically compensate close to 100% of those higher input costs with higher prices. As you know, this is not an easy exercise because OEMs are very reluctant to concede price increases. But I think the company has done, you know, a very effective job of, on the one hand, you know, guaranteeing the level of service and of reliability that our clients expect from strategic suppliers as we are. But at the same time, you know, pricing that in a fair way. We have not taken advantage of higher raw material prices, but at least, you know, clients have paid for those, which is the way it should work. In terms of the performance by division that you have on page 15, you know, very big differences between 2 highly successful divisions, Filtration and Air and Cooling, where the level of margins that the company achieved were at the top end of both our peer group as well as our historical performance. Very satisfied. I think Filtration is benefiting from a very strong aftermarket environment, which is a bit of the consequence of the low OE activity. The installed base is aging fast, and this is creating more demand for replacement and aftermarket. As you know, the pricing of our products in the aftermarket is substantially higher than on the OE side. There is a mix effect, which is a positive one. I think you know, the management has done a really outstanding job there. Same thing for Air and Cooling. You know, we are running at fairly high margins, and we're able to basically compensate for the negative variances, both in terms of volumes and input prices. Different situation on the Suspension side. Really challenging environment. This activity you know, has 2 elements which makes it more challenging. One, it is of the 3 divisions, it is the division that has the biggest exposure to the European market. Europe has been the toughest market in the last few years, both in terms of volumes and in terms of margins. The second one, this is the division that has the highest component of raw material prices on sales. If you take the P&L, you know, close to 50% of revenues is represented by raw material prices. In an environment where you have a very rapid and significant increase in input prices, that is clearly the most challenged one. I will pause here now. I don't wanna take too much of your time and really open up to your questions. Thank you. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. We will now begin the Q&A session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and 2. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from Martino De Ambrogi with Equita SIM. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. The first questions are on today's news. On the dividend you will return to pay. Have you any general rule of thumb in terms of payout or what else in order to have an idea what could be the dividend payment? Second, you are talking about flexibility on dividends and buyback. Anything else? Flexibility is not destined to industrial assets. On costs, on the occupancy rate. In rehabilitation, you expect to return to full occupancy by year-end. Could you provide us a very rough indication of what could be the profitability once you get back to the full occupancy for a rehab? For nursing homes in Italy and Germany, you are projecting 2023 as full occupancy. Is it back-end loaded, so will be at the end of 2023, or you expect probably H1? Thank you. Okay. I will start with your first 3 questions, and then I'll ask Michele to answer the one on KOS. Dividend policy, as you might know by now, we don't have a policy. We don't think, you know, it is advisable for a holding company like ours to have a policy because, you know, our results are affected by a bunch of non-recurring items. We think it's very difficult, you know, to have a rigid policy going forward and to give guidance on that. The answer is we don't have a policy. As I said earlier, the decision that was taken by the board today is that of proposing to a shareholders' meeting, changes to the composition of our capital that will allow the board in the future to have, you know, flexibility in terms of dividends and buybacks. You know, we have not discussed, and we have not taken any decisions about how to use that flexibility in the future. When I said flexibility, you know, it's flexibility on capital distributions that could take the form of either dividends or buybacks. Obviously, you know, flexibility is also to invest the capital into our businesses, but we didn't need to do anything on the composition of our capital to do that. You know, if your question is, you know, flexibility is, it should also include how to invest, you know, in our businesses, obviously that is the case. That has always been the case. That was the case, you know, before, and we didn't need to do anything. We will continue to, you know, compare options of deploying capital into our businesses, and compare that with options of returning capital to our shareholders. We will try to be, you know, as pragmatic and as rational as possible, and from time to time to choose what is, you know, the best option available in the interest of our shareholders. That really doesn't change. Michele, do you wanna answer on KOS? Yes. With regards to the occupancy of nursing homes, Italy is progressing according to our expectations, which we announced earlier this year. It's slow, but progressing. In Italy, we're experiencing a steady level of increase in most regions with a few exceptions. It will take the whole year of 2023 before we get to full occupancy as far as we can see today. Of course, it's a new situation, so very difficult also to predict. With regards to Germany, the drop was much more contained during the first COVID wave. It was a bit more impacted during the second year of the pandemic. It has had a slower path to recovery this year. Actually, it's flattish right now. It's not easy. Different drivers in Germany. It's mainly related to the unavailability of professional nurses, without whom you cannot really take new guests if you don't have the right level of staffing. Probably many of those nurses were recruited by the public sector, as that happened in Italy. There were also fair share of non-German nurses, which might have left the country during the pandemic. It's quite challenging now to hire those kind of professional staff. We have now new recruits, which will join the company in H2, which should enable the recovery of the occupancy in Germany. With regards to profitability, again, we need to separate the 2 cases. In Germany, as we highlighted in the past, the system is quite clear. It's a cost-plus mechanism, so the inflation in the cost of staff, which is actually there, and in the cost of energy, which is becoming also quite relevant, will be compensated by the tariffs in due course. This happens normally in a structured way and quite swiftly, quite timely. We expect the margins to be in line with what we had devised when we bought the company, which should enable us to get to a high single digit level of EBITDA in the long term after paying for the rents. In Italy, the situation is not as structured and not as predictable. We are also experiencing inflation, although to a lesser extent than Germany. In particular, we have had increases in the cost of the doctors and the qualified nurses. For the bulk of the personnel, which is non-qualified nurses, this increase has not really materialized yet, although there might be a labor contract renewal at national level sometime in the future. We also had increase in the cost of energy, heating and electricity. This all adds up to increasing our cost base. Plus, if you add the inefficiencies that are generated by a lower level of occupancy, that explains the lower level of profitability that we see today. Once we recover to full occupancy, the recovery of the extra costs of the cost inflation is not guaranteed, so it will have to be discussed for each individual region in Italy. Some regions like Lombardia and to a lesser extent Piemonte and Liguria started to recognize a little bit of tariff increase already this year. Others didn't, and there will be more to be done in the next couple of years to fully recover the increase of the KOS base. It's not easy to predict where we will land in Italy after the COVID crisis is finally over and we restore fully. For now, we see a few points lower marginality, but it will all depend on the public sector and to what extent they will compensate for the KOS inflation. Michele, on the rehabilitation business that should be close to full occupancy by year-end, is it already possible to guide on profitability? Again, we see a few points lower profitability compared to before the COVID. There will be a discussion at national level because rehabilitation tariffs are set at national level, and there should be some kind of realignment of tariffs. At the moment, we have no indication on the size of this tariff increase. Okay. Thank you. If I may follow up on the dividend and buyback question. Having to choose, in the past you always chose the buyback compared to dividend approach. Is it still the case? Again, you know, I give you my personal opinion, but obviously this is, as I said earlier, a decision that the board will have to take. you know, we'll have these discussions in due course. I think that to the extent that, you know, buybacks are feasible, i.e., that you can buy the shares, I think that they're more efficient just because, you know, you're diluting the NAV of the non-selling shareholders by capturing the discount at which you're buying the shares. Obviously, then you need to be able to effectively buy the shares. as you know, at least in Italy, buybacks are subject to a series of operating limitations in terms of volumes, and it depends also on the liquidity of the market, which hasn't been great of late. This is a bit the constraint. You know, on the other hand, dividends are easier because you just pay. You don't depend on, you know, market conditions to do a distribution. I think those are, you know, pluses and minuses that we will have to, you know, at the point in time in the future where we'll make those decisions, we'll have to choose the best instrument. Okay, thank you. The next question is from Daniele Ridolfi with Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Yes, good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question. I have a few questions, if I may. My first question is on the investment of liquidity at holding level. I was wondering if you have changed your view on the possibility to enter into new sectors, or do you think your portfolio of assets is fine with the current perimeter. If you can elaborate on your capital allocation strategy. Second question on the holding KOS, which stood at EUR 5.7 million in the H1 below 2021 and 2020. I was wondering if you can, if we can consider EUR 11-12 million on annual basis as a reasonable level, or do you still see room for efficiency. If you can guide us on the holding KOS for 2022 and 2023. Last question on KOS. If you could elaborate a bit on the positive performance of acute in the H1 of 2022, with revenues up 18%. Also, if you can give us an update on the hospital in Suzzara, which is managed by KOS on concession. I was wondering when the concession is going to expire, if you're going to renew the concession, if there is any timing for tender. If you can elaborate a bit on this point. Thanks. Okay. Liquidity investment strategy. I think, you know, we said in the last few years pretty consistently that we were not planning to look for investments outside of our existing portfolio companies because, you know, we didn't think that the environment in terms of pricing of assets was particularly attractive. We didn't think we had, you know, any particular angle to compete in a market which was, you know, frankly a seller's market in our opinion, more than a buyer's market with a lot of competition. We haven't changed our mind on that. You know, I think we would look at the possibility of deploying the capital on the 2 businesses that we own. On those 2 businesses, we haven't really run into sufficiently attractive investment opportunities in the last few years to justify a different use than basically buying our own shares at a discount. Because, you know, buying your own shares at a discount is, you know, you buy what you know, you buy what you control, and so that creates a pretty high hurdle in terms of cost of capital, and you have to think that you can do better by deploying this capital into our businesses. You know, for Sogefi, we haven't seen that opportunity. In KOS, the company has continued to expand its business mainly through greenfield. We have a significant number of new structures that are in construction right now or that we have opened in the last 2 years. Even in the downturn, the COVID downturn, we never stopped investing in growth. We have privileged that compared to buying existing structures simply because at a certain point a few years ago, you know, prices increased so much and there was so much competition that we felt that it was more interesting from a valuation standpoint to invest in greenfield as opposed to buying, you know, existing businesses. We will continue to make that analysis, you know, on a continuous basis. That obviously will depend on what opportunities we find. We have also on paper the possibility of increasing our investment in KOS by buying out our partner. We were not confronted with the opportunity to do this at least not on terms that we thought were attractive in the last few years. This might, you know, change in the future. Those, I would say, are the possible users of our excess capital. We also think that it is reasonable, you know, to have alternatives. This is why we, you know, we decide to go for this flexibility of being able to eventually to distribute through dividends or buybacks because, you know, if we don't find those opportunities, well, we, you know, we have the ability to distribute some of that excess capital. The holding company KOS on page 8, you have the numbers. For the first 6 months of the year, holding company costs were EUR 5.7 million. Slightly lower than H1 2021, which was EUR 6 million, and substantially lower than H1 2020, which was EUR 8.5 million. I would say that, you know, the level of this year is pretty much, we think, recurrent stable numbers. Obviously, we will always try to, you know, to decrease and to save on costs that are not productive. We don't see, you know, any major opportunities to change that in a substantial way. Just add one detail. In the last couple of years, we haven't had any tax benefit on those costs due to the tax consolidation at the group level not being in positive territory. Once the situation, regime situation is restored with among the Italian companies, on those holding company costs, we should also have a tax benefit of around 20%-25%. That could decrease the final number that the holding will have to disburse every year. Good point. Do you wanna comment on the acute performance in Suzzara? Yes. In acute care, it's not really our core business. We have only 2 hospitals. One is the Suzzara Hospital in Mantua, and the other one is an acute care facility that is included within the rehabilitation business unit, although it operates in acute care. Both companies have been better off in the COVID years, a little bit like rehab, but with an additional advantage of carrying out a lot of activities related to COVID itself. In particular, the second structure that we own in the Marche region was extremely profitable these last 2 years. Suzzara has not been as profitable lately. Actually, it was never one of the most profitable structures in the network. The concession of Suzzara, of the Suzzara Hospital is due to expire October this year, and the talks with the Lombardy region about the renewal have been ongoing for many years now. There is still a good possibility that we can renew. Shouldn't that be the case, it's not going to be a major loss in terms of EBIT contribution. Okay, thanks. As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question is a follow-up from Martino De Ambrogi with Equita SIM. Please go ahead. Yes, thank you. Again, on costs, is there any update on the Indian divestiture process? On subsidies, I understand in Germany will end, but could you provide a picture of what you collected so far? If, I don't know, if any, what do you expect to collect by year-end in terms of subsidies? The third question is on the acquisitions that you already touched during the previous answer. I was wondering if there are many opportunities, many more opportunities in the post-COVID season than before, or is, let's say, normal life, normal business on the M&A side? Michele, do you wanna take both? Yes. India, we are now considering exit options. We have had a few interest letters so far, nothing binding. The process is still ongoing and the strategy is confirmed that we should exit. In terms of subsidy, as we mentioned in the past, Italy is kind of a random number, so we kind of get something from every now and then, and from regions that some pay, others don't pay at all. It's normally related to a couple of years before, so it's quite unpredictable. Year to date, in Italy we have had EUR 3 million and a half. In Germany, EUR 13 million. In Germany, those EUR 13 million are split between the compensation for loss of occupancy, which has ended on June 13, so there will be more of that, and compensation for additional costs, and this part will still be granted in the future, and there is no expiry foreseen at the moment. We have had a total of EUR 17 million in the H1. In the H2, we are envisaging probably a number which is one third of that, taking into account that Italy is not really foreseeable as a reliable estimate. The next question is a follow-up from Daniele Ridolfi with Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks. I have another question on KOS, in particular on the rehabilitation area. I was wondering if you can provide the occupancy rate for Q1 and for Q2, just to understand how the occupancy rate evolved in the H1, if you can split the average 72% in Q1 and Q2. Also, what kind of visibility do you have on occupancy rate for Q3? In terms of timing, when do you expect the occupancy rate to come back to 2019 level in 2022? Already into Q3 or into Q4? Many thanks. In rehab, occupancy is not the best indicator because, I mean, it very much depends on the mix of services. Plus, we never run at 100% occupancy in rehabilitation because we have rather a budget cap for each hospital, which is set by the region, rather than an occupancy number. When we were at full regime with the rehab, the occupancy number would be probably around 85%, but people were making full use of the budget. I wouldn't really take this as the best indicator for rehab. In the H1, we were not able to produce the whole budget that we could produce in each structure of rehabilitation because there were still a few stop and go from the hospitals during the COVID crisis, during the first waves in the Q1. When there is a slowdown in the activity of the hospitals, then rehabilitation, whose input is basically coming from the hospitals, suffers likewise. Now, in the last 2 months, we were back at full speed and we hope to stay there for the next 2 quarters. I mean, we're seeing that COVID comes and goes, so it's not that we were now past COVID. We cannot really say that anymore. We'll see whether the new waves of COVID will bring more disruptions to the hospital activity or not. It's kind of a volatile situation where we range in any month from 100% activity to, let's say 70% activity, but recovering quite quickly after the COVID wave is over. Okay. Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone. There is a follow-up question from Martino De Ambrogi with Equita. Please go ahead. Sorry, this is just a reminder on the previous question that was not answered concerning the M&A opportunities, if they increased in the past COVID season or it's as usual. I would say more or less as usual. Of course, when there is a slowdown in the activity and the decrease of the profitability, it turns out to be even more difficult to close M&A deals, at least in the nursing homes and rehabilitation sectors. Because the expectations by the sellers remain at very high levels, whereas the actual performance has deteriorated, and it's not clear what it will be in the future. Plus, as you know very well, the reference points in the markets have decreased their multiple substantially also due to some scandals in the French sector, which used to be the reference sector for valuations. We're in a situation where sellers still want to sell high, and buyers would like to pay the price they think is now appropriate, so it's not that we set up many more deals than before. Okay, thank you. If I may, just feeling, if I may, for Mr. De Benedetti on Sogefi in particular. I know there is an official guidance. I imagine that you cannot deviate from this guidance. The guidance for the full year operating profit flat year-on-year seems to be really too conservative. I understand there are a lot of question marks around. It's a difficult situation. If there are no macroeconomic shocks like gas shortages or other similar things, it seems to be very stretched as a guidance. So just your feeling. You know, I think that there are good reasons to be cautious, because, you know, the issues and the low visibility and, you know, energy shocks and supply chain problems, I mean, you name it. I've seldom seen in this sector so many uncertainties and so many, you know, variables that can really disrupt the business. I think it makes sense to frankly be cautious on guidance, not just for the sake of being cautious, but because there are some objective elements that are very difficult to forecast. As you know, in terms of seasonality, the H2 of Sogefi is almost always lower in terms of business than the H1 because there is August, because there is December. You have some, you know, weaker month in terms of seasonality. What is going on with raw material prices is further increasing the uncertainty because it's so big the input costs increase that we cannot afford to produce without having ex ante the agreement of our clients that they will pay prices that will remunerate those higher input costs. You know, sometimes we might just not be able to serve a client because the pricing is not there. This is also very difficult to forecast in advance. I think all those reasons makes it reasonable to be cautious. Obviously, you know, we like to beat guidance, and so we'll work to do better than that, and it's not that we will be satisfied just to meet guidance. You also have to consider that, you know, when you see that in the H1 there were EUR 55 million higher input costs and energy costs just in 6 months, you know, that gives you the magnitude of what is moving, you know, behind the P&L of a company like Sogefi. You know, this is quite unpredictable. Okay. Thank you. For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone. A final reminder at this time, if you wish to join the question queue, please press star and one now. Mr. De Benedetti, there are no more questions registered at this time. Thank you very much to all of those that have participated and have a good summer. Bye-bye. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones.