Welcome to PETRONAS Chemicals Group Berhad's annual briefing for 4th quarter and year ended 31st December 2023. Assalamualaikum, I'm Zaida Alia, Head of Investor Relations. Thank you for joining us. I'm the event host and moderator for today. You should by now be able to access and download the financial results from Bursa Malaysia's website. The same is available on our corporate website together with today's presentation materials. As always, the agenda for today will be a short presentation followed by the Q&A session. Before we begin, I shall go over a few housekeeping rules. To avoid any noise disruptions, please ensure your mics are on mute. To pose questions during the Q&A, please raise your hands. Once I call your name, please unmute yourself, state your name and organization, then proceed to ask questions. In the interest of time, we will not be taking questions from the chat function. As our management is physically present here today, we would appreciate very much for you to pose your questions directly and verbally. As a reminder, all information presented and disclosed today is strictly intended for participants of the meeting. Participants are reminded that this meeting is being recorded and the recording will be made available on our website in a few days. No other parties have been authorized or granted permission to record this meeting. Ladies and gentlemen, we are pleased to welcome for his first annual briefing, Mr. Mazuin Ismail, our new Managing Director and CEO. Mr. Mazuin took office from Mr. Yusri on 1st of January 2024. Mr. Mazuin will start the briefing with the 4th quarter performance highlights, after which our CFO, Azli, will provide details of the financial results. Also present to take questions after the presentation are the rest of the senior management comprising Chief Manufacturing Officer, Mr. Zamri, Chief Marketing Officer, Mr. Shakeel, Head of Strategic Planning and Ventures, Mr. Yaacob, and Dr. Debbie Chiu, Head of Specialty Chemicals. Without further ado, I shall now hand you over to Mr. Mazuin. Thank you, Alia. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Before we proceed to the performance review, if you would allow me a couple of minutes and let me briefly introduce myself. My name is Mazuin. I started my career in PETRONAS in 1991 as a structural engineer with PETRONAS Carigali. Then on, I went to cover various engineering disciplines and project management in upstream. Over the years, I moved across various roles in PETRONAS Group before heading the Project Delivery and Technology Division of PETRONAS. I was given a chance to spearhead the establishment of PETRONAS Corporate Venture Capital, where we aimed to manage investment funds and lead the PETRONAS Group's efforts in driving technology innovation to maintain a competitive edge to support its core business and drive further growth. Prior to coming to PCG, I headed the Corporate Strategy Division of PETRONAS that oversees PETRONAS's strategy and portfolio. This is at a time when PETRONAS is expanding its portfolio to include non-oil and gas sectors, including future-proofing as well as pursuing sustainability. During this time, I also oversaw the merger and acquisition activities, including the acquisition of renewable energy opportunities globally, including in that also PCG Specialty Chemicals acquisitions of First Stop and Da Vinci Group or BRB. I was also involved in the formation of Clean Energy Solutions Unit, which has evolved into what many of you know now as Gentari, PETRONAS's dedicated clean energy arm. So after many years in various roles within the parent company of PETRONAS, I'm glad to be here today with PCG and to take it to the next phase of its growth journey, of course, with all of you. Ladies and gentlemen, let's now look at our performance, starting with a recap on what the market was in 2023 as compared to 2022. Despite signs of economic resilience early in the year 2023, economic activities generally fell short compared to 2022. The combination of inflationary pressures, tighter financial conditions, depreciation of emerging market currencies, and ongoing political crisis all played part in shaping the market sentiments. As a result, 2023 average global GDP growth was slower at 3% compared to 3.5% in 2022. Global PMI was comparable to 2022 and stood at 49.0, indicating better stability in manufacturing. Countries such as China, India, and Russia showed acceleration in their PMI, especially in the second half of the year 2023, contributing to the slight increase in global manufacturing output. Meanwhile, the benchmark Brent crude price averaged at $83 per barrel in the year 2023, and that's down by 18% from $101 per barrel in 2022, primarily due to concerns over a slower economic recovery, geopolitical turmoil, and strong supply availability from the Middle East. Against this challenging backdrop, the chemicals industry saw subdued commodity growth on decreased consumer spending and weaker demand from end markets. As a result, petrochemical product prices experienced widespread decline on oversupply concerns, lower energy prices, and sluggish demand in the downstream industries. 2023 was a challenging year for the global chemicals industry and PCG, including. We remain steadfast and focused on our strategies and continue to deliver our commitment. Ladies and gentlemen, 2023 was also an operationally challenging year for us. We had two planned turnarounds as well as eight planned maintenance shutdowns. Additionally, we experienced and planned downtime of about 44 days, which ultimately affected our overall performance. Turnaround activities were undertaken at PC Ammonia in the 3rd quarter, followed by PC MTBE in the 4th quarter in 2023. We experienced and expected downtime at PC Fertilisers Sabah, leading to 26.4 days, and PC Methanol Plant 2, 30 days, in the 2nd quarter. This is due to the feedstock disruption arising from maintenance activities at PETRONAS's facilities in Sabah Sarawak Gas Pipeline. In the 3rd quarter, we faced mechanical issues at PC Methanol Plant 2, which saw the plant shut down for almost a month. The combination of operational challenges, extensive maintenance, and turnarounds in 2023 brought down our group's plant utilization rate to 85% compared to 89% in 2022, resulting in lower production volume from our Malaysian operations. Nonetheless, with contributions from specialty segments, our total production volume was recorded at 10.38 million metric tons, which is 2% higher than 2022. Overall, sales volume was up in all three segments as we recorded a full year 16% higher sales volume, with our commercial team pushing for sales, drawing down from inventories contributions from Pengerang Integrated Complex as well as volumes from the specialty segment. With a higher sales volume, Group revenue was comparable to 2022 at MYR 28.7 billion, despite a 26% decrease in average product prices. Group's EBITDA, however, declined significantly to MYR 3.8 billion, mainly due to lower product spreads, particularly for urea, ammonia, and ethane-related products, as well as higher maintenance costs. Consequently, EBITDA margin was lower at 13% compared to 28% in the same period, 2022, and the group's PAT also declined to RM 1.8 billion from RM 6.3 billion during the same period, 2022, mainly due to lower EBITDA. Ladies and gentlemen, next I'll have Azli to take you through the details of the financial performance. Thank you, Encik Mazuin. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us this evening. Now let's dive into the financial highlights, starting with the Olefins and derivatives segment on page 3 of the deck, where we will compare the results of the 4th quarter 2023 against 3rd quarter 2023. Although there was some stabilization observed in the global PMI during the 4th quarter, it remained insufficient to offset the impact of the weakened downstream demand due to slow growth in the industrial sectors such as construction and textile. On the operational front, our plant utilization rate for the segment was lower quarter-over-quarter at 71% due to extended downtime post-turnaround and maintenance activities at our MTBE plant, as well as our propane dehydrogenation plant or PDH plant in Gebeng. Also slowed down at PC Olefins due to utilities disruption at Kerteh. So both production and sales volume were lower against the preceding quarter. On the market front, the segment was challenged by subdued demand while supply was ample from the US and in China. Segment revenue decreased by 8% quarter-over-quarter to MYR 3.2 billion due to lower sales volume coupled with lower product prices. The segment recorded negative EBITDA of RM 67 million compared to RM 404 million in the preceding quarter, and this is due to lower sales volume, mainly for aromatics and MTBE, higher maintenance costs, mainly at PC Olefins, PC Aromatics, and PC MTBE, and overall lower spread in line with lower product prices. Moving on to the fertilizer and methanol segment on page 4 of the deck, this quarter we saw positive development in the F&M segment, particularly ammonia. The ammonia prices increased by almost 55% due to product shortage in the market stemming from prolonged shutdown of a major Middle Eastern product availability since September. On the operational front, plant utilization rate increased to 91% due to lower downtime compared to 3rd quarter. With better plant utilization rate, production volume rose by 15% to 1.7 million tonnes. Sales volume also increased by 17%, mainly due to higher urea volume in line with higher production at all our urea plants. Coupled with higher average product prices of ammonia and methanol, the segment saw a 33% increase in revenue and a 28% improvement in EBITDA at MYR 770 million. The EBITDA margin was comparable at 32%. In line with improvement in EBITDA, PAT for the segment surged 46% quarter-on-quarter to MYR 527 million. Moving on to our specialty segment on page 5 of the deck, in the 4th quarter 2023, the specialty segment recorded lower EBITDA, mainly attributable to higher operational expenses, largely due to higher manpower costs following a summer holiday effect on 3rd quarter 2023, as well as higher maintenance costs attributable to planned turnaround activities at Perstorp in Sweden. Lower EBITDA also attributable to compressed margin for the quarter, mainly driven by higher raw material costs in line with higher natural gas prices and other energy prices. For resins and coating and advanced material, lower volume was observed for the key products, especially Alkyd Resin, Powdered Polyester, and PVB Film, mainly due to lower demand in the construction industry. For engineered fluids and additive chemicals, lower volume was observed following lower demand from end market segments such as the aviation and housing industry. All in all, the specialty segment was weaker quarter-on-quarter due to higher operational expenses and compressed margin, partially offset by higher volumes attributed by the intermediate segment. Next, let's look at our group's quarter 4 performance on page 6. At our Malaysian operation, our plant utilization increased to 84% from 77%, mainly due to lower turnaround days compared to the 3rd quarter. The group's revenue increased 6% from RM 6.8 billion to RM 7.2 billion on the 4th quarter of 2023, on higher sales volume from the F&M segment, O&D, as well as volume from our Pengerang Integrated Complex coupled with favorable forex movement. However, the group's EBITDA and EBITDA margin were lower at RM 655 million and 9.1% respectively. This significant drop was due to lower spread, particularly for aromatics and MTBE, as well as higher fixed costs, mainly due to higher maintenance costs at PC Olefins, PC MTBE, and as I mentioned earlier, PC Aromatics. Further to that, EBITDA was also impacted by higher costs of sale stemming from strategic sourcing activities during the quarter to cater for production shortfall in order to meet our commitment to our own customers. Profit after tax for the quarter was lower at RM 142 million in line with lower EBITDA. Now let's proceed with the cash flow and balance sheet on pages 7 and 8 respectively. On cash flow, throughout 2023, we generated cash flow for operation at MYR 5.1 billion. Most of our cash used for investing is incurred for CAPEX investment in PIC, Cypress Stop growth projects, as well as the Melamine project in Gurun, Kedah. Despite the challenging year, our cash balance increased by MYR 380 million to MYR 9.3 billion. On the balance sheet at page 8 of the deck, our total assets were higher by MYR 4.8 billion at MYR 60.2 billion, mainly due to higher PP&E, mainly relating to CAPEX investment at PetChem project in PIC, Penta Plant in Sayakha, India, as well as other various improvement projects throughout our presence. Our total assets were also higher due to higher long-term receivables by MYR 740 million relating to purchase consideration for partial divestment of PC Fertilizers Sabah shareholding, which was recognised on a deferred basis. Total equity was higher by MYR 2.3 billion at MYR 442 billion, mainly due to profit attributable to shareholders, as well as movement in forex translation due to weakening of ringgit against USD, against euro, as well as against Swedish krona. Total liabilities were higher due to higher trade and other payables by MYR 2.1 billion, mainly due to higher purchase of fixed stocks and utilities at Pengerang following higher production. That's all for the financial breakdown. I'm handing back to Cik Mazuin for updates on sustainability matters as well as way forward. Over to you, Cik Mazuin. Thank you, Azli. Ladies and gentlemen, now let's move to sustainability updates. Greenhouse gas emissions from PCG's Malaysian assets were 6.98 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent in 2023 on a market-based accounting approach. Additionally, greenhouse gas emissions from specialty chemical business, namely Perstorp, were 0.36 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent, which resulted in overall PCG GHG emissions of 7.34 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent. By the end of 2023, we have reduced 146 kilotonnes of CO2 equivalent, and this was contributed by a scope 2 reduction of around 94 kilotonnes of CO2 equivalent from the subscription of renewable energy credits from Tenaga Nasional Berhad and Sarawak Energy Berhad. A further 52 kilotonnes CO2 equivalent of GHG emissions reduction was realized through ongoing operational optimization initiatives such as energy efficiency improvement and flaring and venting reduction. With regards to hazardous waste recycle rate, we achieved a 76% recycling rate lower than our target of 79%. This is due to a higher amount of non-recyclables generated from plant turnaround activities. On the social impact front, we reached more than 111,000 people through our social impact programs within this region, exceeding the target of 80,000. Additionally, a further 60,000 numbers of reach was contributed by Cypress Stop's social impact activation, bringing an overall total of more than 170,000. With regards to our mangrove rehab initiatives, we planted a total of 5,700 mangrove trees in 2023, 5,500 of which were planted in Tanjung Surat. This is in Johor, and another 200 trees were planted in EcoCare Kerteh. Ladies and gentlemen, moving on to the market outlook. The key factors that will shape the chemicals market in 2024 are fixed stock prices, geopolitical tensions, China's economic activities, capacity expansions, and demand from the downstream sector. China's manufacturing PMI for January this year came at 50.8, which is much better than expected, indicating manufacturers' response to the pickup in overseas demand and has been ramping up purchasing activities. This is expected to support the Olefins and Derivatives segment in the near term. As such, ethylene prices are anticipated to be stable in view of improved downstream demand, constrained supply in the Southeast Asian region, and rising crude and naphtha prices due to the ongoing geopolitical issues. For MEG, despite subdued demand, prices are expected to stabilize on tight supply conditions due to various plant shutdowns in Saudi Arabia and delayed cargo arrivals caused by the Red Sea attacks. The polyethylene market is projected to remain stable between February and April as converters are re-entering the market post-Chinese New Year holiday in February and to begin preparation for restocking activities ahead of the Eid season. Meanwhile, paraxylene prices are expected to soften in line with the weakening demand from PET and polyester. Now, moving on to the fertilizers and methanol segment, urea prices are anticipated to soften due to low demand during off-planting season. Ammonia prices are predicted to soften due to ample supply and weak downstream demand alongside declining natural gas prices. Meanwhile, methanol prices are anticipated to be stable on tight supply in Southeast Asia while Middle East producers cut their output, with some opting for shutdowns as natural gas is prioritized to meet demand requirements. The performance of our specialty segment continues to rely on the improvements in the end market's demand that tracks the macroeconomic environment as well as effective fixed stock management, especially in Europe. Global market conditions remain dynamic, with ongoing political tension, but gradual recovery in the market demand is expected for 2024. EU's weak economic activity continues to impact chemicals demand, while U.S. and China are showing recovery, albeit at a slow pace. The weakness in building and construction sectors is expected to persist, but automotive and aviation sectors continue to see positive developments in demand and organic growth. The automotive sector showed better momentum with higher new car registrations. However, the construction and industrial sectors remain weak worldwide due to high interest rates and slow recovery in the global manufacturing PMI. Overall, 2024 will be another challenging year for the chemicals industry. However, as industry opens in cycles, we anticipate that the ongoing downcycle will turn as the global economy improves and the demand catches up with the supply. Ladies and gentlemen, before we move to the questions and answers, I would like to briefly touch on our ongoing projects and strategic focus areas. Over the past 12 months, our performance has been influenced by persistent inflationary pressures and the continuing effects of monetary policies on economic growth. Despite these challenges, we remain steadfast in our commitment to growth and diversification. We are looking forward to the commencement of commercial operations for our new plants in 2024. First up is the Melamine Plant in Gurun, Kedah, followed by the expansion of the 2EHA Plant in Gebeng through our joint venture company, BASF PETRONAS Chemicals, or BPC. The third addition to our portfolio, which is within our specialty chemical segment, is the PENTA and Calcium Formate Plant in Sayakha, India, which is expected to come online in the first half of this year. We are also actively engaged in implementing post-acquisition integration work to realize identified value creation projects, further bolstering our pursuit of growth and expansion at Perstorp. On the operations front, we have scheduled five plant turnarounds, and our primary focus is on effectively executing these plans while prioritizing our safety of our employees and contractors involved. We have also addressed most of our operational challenges, and we have positioned ourselves to capitalize on opportunities when the market rebounds. We will continue to closely monitor market dynamics, paying particular attention to factors such as geopolitical tensions and the progress of China's recovery to ensure we remain agile and effective in our response to market volatility. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our update for today. Thank you for listening, and now let's open the floor for the questions and answers session. Thank you. Thank you, Mazuin and Azli. We shall now begin the Q&A. To post any questions, please use the raise hand function. Once I state your name, please unmute and then proceed to ask your question. Please be reminded that we will not be taking any questions through the Q&A function. We first have Ahmad from Nomura. Please go ahead, Ahmad. Hi. Good evening, everyone. Just a few questions. On the maintenance costs, I just want to understand, how much higher is it on a Q&Q for the fourth quarter against the third quarter, and how much is it relatively on a full-year basis against FY2023? So that's the first question. And then I think there was an H article last week citing that MOU, which you also announced. Probably, can you give us more clarity on what is the game plan on that front for the green ammonia and green urea side of things? That's number two. And then number three, can you just remind me again on the Sarawak Petchem deal? I understand that Petchem will be the marketing agent. Can you guide us, how does that impact the pricing for you, given that you also have a competing product as well, whether that will affect the supply-demand dynamics? What is the marketing agency fee for selling their product, basically? Those are the three questions on my side. Thank you, Ahmad. Mazuin here. Maybe I take your second question first on the MOU that's signed between PCG and Sarawak Petchem. This is on a joint feasibility study for ammonia plant and urea. And the thing is, when we look at the market moving forward, the demand for cleaner and greener products is going to be there. So one of the stated strategies for PCG is actually for us to increase more sustainable products moving forward. Now, when we look at that and the market will be there, what are some of the opportunities that we have to pursue there? This will bring in better margins because that will be in demand. This will bring in stability because it will also be preferred products moving forward. And more importantly, it will become also competitive. So it can bring value, it can bring stability, and also future-proofing products for PCG. That's why we enter a joint feasibility study with Sarawak Petchem to look at how we can do this best moving forward. We look at how do we design this better, how do actually we utilize the power, and what kind of power do we use? Will there be opportunities, for example, for us to use CCS also in this opportunity? We're pursuing that together with Sarawak Petchem. Okay. Thank you, Jay Mazuin. Sorry, just to follow up on that. Is there already a technology vendor that will mean that you are looking into as a candidate for this, or it's pretty much still in the exploring stage at the moment? Exploring stage, Ahmad. We haven't pinned down. Okay. Because the thing is, I know there's been a lot of investments announced in this area, but then some actually even decided to call it off given the massive capital outlay, I think, and then also some called off the IPO as well. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on that? Do you think it will be? I know it's still in the feasibility study, but do you think that it will happen in the first place given the volatility in the prices? So how do you manage to counter that? Yeah. I'm very optimistic on this opportunity, Ahmad. That's why having a partner that brings advantages to the table is actually very important. As you know, we are very experienced in that industry, but also Sarawak Petchem, together with some other partners that bring in renewable energy sources and partners that have carbon capture and sequestration capability, is actually very important to make that happen. So no one party can do it alone. That's why we have to explore this and choose the right partner, the right technology, as you said, spot on, to make it happen. But I think we are in good space, in good spirit to start this. Is it foolproof 100%? No. That's why we take a joint feasibility study at this stage. Thanks. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ahmad. Since we are in the subject of Sarawak, so maybe I can answer your question number three. So as you rightly pointed out, that PCG will uptake 100% of the volume coming out from Sarawak Petchem methanol plant. Currently, we anticipate that the volume will be ready in the middle of the year. And we have lined up our commercial team has lined up various customers for that particular volume to come in. Unfortunately, I cannot reveal to you, Ahmad, what is our marketing fee because it's a very commercially sensitive arrangement between us and Sarawak Petchem. So I hope, Ahmad, you can appreciate the confidentiality nature of this particular transaction. But it further bolsters our presence of being a reliable and big methanol player, not just within the region but also globally. On your. Okay. Sorry. Just to touch on question number three again. Then how do you ensure that you don't cannibalize your own product then? We will look at everything on a total portfolio basis because there's a rising demand for methanol. We believe that through a portfolio basis, we can also optimize not just volume from our own methanol plant but also volume from Sarawak Petchem. That is something that we will ensure that whatever best netback available will be attributable to the group portfolio, regardless of where the source comes from. All right. Okay. Thank you for the clarification. On your first question, Ahmad, this is quite detailed. Quarter on quarter, our maintenance costs, especially for the O&D, increased by MYR 50 million compared to quarter three. As I mentioned earlier, the maintenance cost that was incurred in quarter four, this is basically for maintenance for PC Olefins. As you know, the cracker, the furnaces will require a higher maintenance cost, as well as PC Aromatics because it was supposed to undertake a planned pit stop this year, but somehow we managed to bring it forward into quarter four while they were having an unplanned shutdown since the equipment is already ready at site. On top of that, we also have maintenance at PCMTBE in line with its scheduled plant turnaround. To answer you, it's basically MYR 50 million higher compared to quarter three. So as a guidance for 2023, our total maintenance costs for the plant in Malaysia is about MYR 300 million. If you were to split between the segments, MYR 200 million is basically attributable to O&D, and another MYR 100 million is mainly attributable to the F&M segment. I hope this quite detailed explanation answers your question, Ahmad. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next, we have Ashman from AmI nvest. Go ahead, Ashman. Thank you, Alia. Hi, Encik Mazuin and Azli. So I also have a number of questions. The first is on the effective tax rate recorded for the fourth quarter. I understand that at an absolute level, it's actually an improvement. However, looking at it from the effective tax rate perspective, it seems to be quite. There seems to be quite a significant increase. And I appreciate if you could clarify on the matter. That's my first question. My second question is again on the Sarawak Petchem plant. I think, if I'm not mistaken, you mentioned earlier that the methanol market is expected to be tighter going into 2024. But the capacity that is expected to be generated by Sarawak Petchem at the Tanjung Kidurong plant is quite significant at 1.75 metric tonne per annum. Do you think this will somewhat significantly take up the supply constraint environment that you expect to see in 2024? And if you could, I understand the details on the customers are a bit sensitive. But if you could perhaps give us a bit of insight into the type of customers that you expect to cater for from this plant. Thirdly, earlier this week or sorry, I'm not sure whether last week or today, but S&P Capital issued their commodity newsletter and mentioned that a bit of margins for the petrochemical sector will continue to be quite difficult for naphtha-based producers. With the commencement of your PIC plant in Pengerang, which is mostly based on naphtha, do you guys have any arrangement to address the situation? Lastly, the gas pit stop interruption that we've been seeing, are there any plans to address the situation in the future? Okay. Well, that's quite a long list, Ashman. Let's tackle one by one. So the effective tax rate, yes, it's higher in quarter four at 41%. As what we described in the Bursa announcement, the higher ETR is basically due to higher non-deductibles for the expenses. It's basically unrealized forex loss on payables as well as the shortest loan. And there's also amortization of intangibles that is also non-deductible. But as you can also appreciate, Ashman, I think in PCG, we have two distinct tax jurisdictions. One is the one in Labuan, it's 3% where our marketing arm derives most of their revenue. And the other is the 24% at the plant level. So as you know, the plant is on a tolling mode. So they do have a fixed profit margin. So in a very challenging environment where product prices as well as product spread were sinking, so less profit being generated at the Labuan entity or to be taxed at Labuan jurisdiction. So as a whole, the ETR will go higher. And we also have a slightly bigger presence outside of Malaysia where we don't enjoy this kind of tax incentive like what we have in Labuan. So naturally, our ETR also gets higher. So on a guidance basis, I'm not going to ask this question anyway, Ashman. For 2024 onwards, our ETR, we expect between 15% moving forward. So that could be a guidance for you to put in place in 2024 because of these reasons. On the Sarawak Petchem, yeah, I think as a start, our commercial team will start uptaking the volume. I think the numbers that you quoted, 1.7 million tonne, is correct. But it will be on a spot basis until we are quite assured that the operation from the methanol plant has been somewhat tested before we can convert some of this volume into a term contract. So once we can convert this volume into a term contract, we can be quite confident that the volume, although it's significant, will not be a challenge for us because we have been doing our road to market for this particular volume over the past few months. And we have been aggressively going through the market, not just Southeast Asia, beyond Southeast Asia, to look at potential customers. So in terms of markets and markets that will potentially use Methanol, I mean, Methanol is quite diverse application. Ashman, there's a route for Methanol to Olefins. There's a route for transportation. There's also a route into a formaldehyde. So there's a lot of application. It's quite diverse and it's quite fungible. We believe there's also end markets in Southeast Asia that can take able to take this huge volume from Sarawak Petchem. Okay. On the third question with regards to EBITDA margin for naphtha cracker or integrated liquid-based petrochemical, I think we know when we invest into Pengerang, we will be getting a typical EBITDA margin for a liquid cracker. We cannot compare the return that will be generated from Pengerang against our gas cracker, the two gas crackers that we have in Kerteh because it's supported with an advantageous fixed cost. As I mentioned in the previous analyst briefing, we do have a special arrangement between the petrochemical plant and the refinery and cracker plant where certain times when the PETCAM business is suffering, there can be an additional discount in terms of discount over ethylene, discount over propylene that will be provided by the refinery and cracker to support the viability of the PETCAM plant because all in all, it has to be run viably and on an integrated basis. The PETCAM needs the refinery and cracker and vice versa. So that is some special arrangement that we have with the cracker and refinery. On the fixed stop disruption, that particularly happened in quarter two this year, affecting our plant in Labuan as well as in Sabah, which has been covered in the previous analyst briefing. The disruption that we saw in quarter four affecting PC Olefins is basically utilities from PETRONAS Gas, in particular, and particular is steam disruption. And that affects our gas crackers. There were no fixed stop disruptions from PETRONAS during quarter four. I hope that clarifies and answers your question, Ashman. Yes, it does. Thanks very much, Azli. Great. Thank you. Next, we have Jeremy from Maybank. Go ahead, Jeremy. Hi. Good evening. I've got three questions. So my first one would be, when are you guys aiming to consolidate Pengerang into your financials? You want to finish the question first, Jeremy? No. I'll ask one by one. One by one. Okay. No problem. As we mentioned in our media release, and you can get it from our website, the whole complex is currently finishing the performance test run. There's another three plants supposed to complete the performance test run this quarter. And we will declare COD, commercial operation date, once this performance test run has been fully completed. And I hope by the time we meet again in May for the next analyst briefing, we can pinpoint the date for the COD. But roughly, we're looking at in the quarter two this year. All right. Thank you. And my second question would be, what is your target 2024 plant utilization rate for both O&D and also the F&M segments? Yeah. As always, it's been our ambition, Jeremy, that our plant utilization, despite what Encik Mazuin mentioned, the plan turnaround, the plan maintenance that we have for the year, to be above 90% plant utilization. This is for both segments, yeah? Yes. For both segments. Okay. I assume that how about next quarter? I mean, upcoming first quarter 2024, is there any planned maintenance? Well, since you asked, I may as well give to you the planned scheduled turnaround that we're going to foresee in the year. So currently, in this quarter, as we speak, our plant in Gurun, PCFK, are undertaking a planned turnaround. It will last until early March or early to middle March because it will typically take around 50 days to complete. Next is Plant One methanol in Labuan that will be happening in quarter two, starting in June. That will typically take around 60 days to complete. In quarter three, it will be our ethylene, our first gas cracker, PC Ethylene. Since the PC Ethylene is connected next to the polyethylene, we will also do a planned turnaround in PC Polyethylene. That will happen in September. It will also typically last around 55-60 days. Lastly, quarter four, we are planning for a scheduled turnaround at ABF Bintulu. It will start in January and typically last for another 60 days. So this is basically planned, Jeremy. But of course, we will try to shorten the turnaround time product to product. If possible, we can try to defer or optimize the turnaround time to cater for rising prices and all that. Okay. That's all from me. I'll go back to the queue. Thank you. Next, we have Raymond from CGS CIMB. Raymond? Hi. Morning, guys. Sorry, evening, guys. Just a simple question on my side. The remeasurement gain on trade payables, which you noted was worth MYR 114 million, was this actually included in the O&D EBITDA line? No. No. No. Raymond, it will not affect the EBITDA line. It's purely affecting the PAT. So there's no impact to the EBITDA. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. It is more of an accounting entry, accounting item, and it doesn't affect cash flow even. Okay. Understood. Understood. You talked about the target plant maintenance of 90% this year. I mean, that's your target. But could you give us. I'm not sure whether you could give us what is truly achievable. We will put a target. I believe it's achievable, Raymond. But I mean, if there's no outside battery limit disruption, for example, fixed stop disruption or utilities disruption beyond our control, we believe above 90% utilization rate is achievable because we've done it, we've achieved it before. Okay. Your third quarter O&D utilization was already quite low. In the fourth quarter, it went even lower. I think you had some issue with the Olefins because of the steam interruption. That started in the third quarter and was carried over into the fourth quarter, right? Twice. We had the instruction twice. The first one that you mentioned in quarter three, that one, if I'm not mistaken, is electricity supply from PGB. Next one happened in quarter four. That one is steam supply. Oh, wow. Okay. And you also mentioned there's an extended turnaround at MTBE. Was it more than the typical 60 days? Yes. Considering the age of the plant and historically, the MTBE always has a problem when it wants to restart following a successful turnaround. So that particular, as you know, PC MTBE, that's the plant, MTBE plant as well as propane dehydrogenation plant. The one in the MTBE plant, we managed to resolve the issues. But the plant is currently running but at the reduced load. The one that the other situation is a propane PDH plant. We expect the plant to resume its operation in two days' time. And as I mentioned earlier, Raymond, as of now, we have addressed most of the internal challenges affecting our plant in our Malaysian operation. And in fact, I can also share with you our January plant utilization is at 92%. For overall? 92% for the whole Malaysia, for F&M and O&D. Okay. Okay. You talked about the turnaround schedule in response to the earlier question. You said ABF would be starting in January. That's next year, right? Sorry. November this year, and maybe last until the end of December or early January. So it typically takes 60 days. Okay. So last year, if I looked at the reason why your utilization rate wasn't as you wanted it, a lot of it has to do with your suppliers, the methane gas supply and the PETRONAS Gas. Are there any inherent issues that we should be worried about? I mean, what's happening with PETRONAS Gas? And are you worried that they would somehow not be able to fulfill your needs? And is there some sort of recourse on your side that you can obtain for yourself because of these disruptions? Okay. Obviously, Raymond, I can't comment on behalf of PETRONAS Gas. But there is this integrated coordination between PCG as well as PGB, to some extent, also goes all the way to PETRONAS level in terms of integrated value chain impact. But when you mentioned about recourse, typically, this kind of exposure risk to us is assessed on an annual basis. And all this while, our daily nomination has always been above our contracted nomination. So we don't foresee that on an annual basis, there's a shortfall from PGB in terms of its delivery throughout one particular contract year. So unless there's a long disruption, then the actual for the year is much below than what they much below than what we nominated, then there could be avenue for us to get some recourse from PGB. Currently, as we assess, there's none because, as I mentioned earlier, we've been offtaking higher than what we nominated. Okay. I see what you mean. So although there were disruptions last year, overall, for the full year, they still met the service level obligations and the contractual volume pass-through or take-up. But in the future, if the issues persist for a lengthy number of months and overall, on an annual basis, it falls short, then perhaps the recourse will be examined at that point. There is an avenue for recourse. That's for sure. Okay. Okay. Sure. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Raymond. Thank you. Next, we have Mayank from Morgan Stanley. Thank you for the presentation. I think just two questions from my end. First was related Perstorp. I think this was a quarter where you highlighted your volumes have actually started picking up quarter-on-quarter. But the margins came off due to certain higher costs and operational expense. Can you just elaborate what they are? Because at the end of the day, you were seeing lower gas costs and fuel costs in Europe in fourth quarter or third quarter. So what really led to this increase in costs? Or is it one-time items there as well? Okay. Thank you, Mayank. As I mentioned earlier, as I verbalized it throughout my presentation, there's two main reasons why the operational expenses for specialties were higher. Number one, there is a scheduled turnaround maintenance at site Perstorp in Sweden. So this just so happened in quarter four, which we don't see in quarter three. And number two, in Sweden, there is this allowance for summer holiday allowance. So when people were away, take their summer holiday, the employer is obliged to pay a summer holiday allowance. So that is basically arising from that particular situation, which happens once a year, every year. I need to caution the analysts that we probably need to see this happening pattern almost on an annual basis. So those two are the main reasons, the higher operational expenses compared to quarter three. I hope that clarifies your question. Yeah. On that, I think, can you just give us the impact of these two expenses for the EBITDA for the fourth quarter? Okay. The impact is somewhat I think in terms of manpower, it's about MYR 15 million. The planned turnaround is about another MYR 15 million. Okay. So even if you kind of normalize this EBITDA, we are still down for the quarter, quarter on quarter. So I was just trying to see, you have a good increase in volumes, which is starting to show up. So where was the and obviously, gas costs have come down, which has been, I think, historically you've highlighted that has been a challenging part of it. So if we kind of take these two things into account, where do you see within the 5, 6, 6 segments that you've highlighted that we're still seeing margins being under pressure within resin or coatings? Or is it still the animal nutrition part, which is still challenging? Where has been the hit in margins coming from? Okay. For this, Mayang, I'll hand over to Dr. Debbie herself to explain to you the situation. Okay. All right. Thank you for the question. Where we see most compression is still coming from the resins and coatings, which Azli has mentioned. The building construction is still very challenging for us. And I think in the past, we have mentioned we see the competition coming from the Chinese supplier. So we see a lot of Chinese products flushed into the European market. And that's where we see us still very pressed, compressed on the margin. Okay. And so the volume increase has largely happened because of some other reasons, is what you're kind of highlighting here, correct? It's not because of resins and coatings where there is still volume pressure? Correct. Actually, our animal nutrition business has been performing better starting last the fourth quarter. So we do see the pickup coming from different sectors. But the resins and coatings are still under a lot of pressure. Got it. Any comments you can kind of clarify, I think, on the industry itself around whether this pressure is going to be just because of imports or there is still destocking going through in the value chain? There's a couple of things going on. One, we have been talking about destocking in the majority of 2023. We see that activities probably start to level off. Number two is the competition coming from the China market. And that's going to be depending on how fast the Chinese economy is going to recover. And the third, we're talking mostly coming from the inflation. If the Fed is going to relax on the interest rate, we may see that begin to ease off. So it's going to be depending on a few factors. Okay. Okay. Very clear. Thank you for that. And I think the second question, Azli, I had was more on the O&D side. If you take into account the MYR 50 million, sorry, of the impact of shutdown, Olefins' EBITDA was still a negative number for the fourth quarter because I'm just trying to understand what really happened apart from maintenance, which caused this challenge in fourth quarter. Yeah. There's also a lower volume, Maybank, as well as product spread. But also, I did not mention earlier that whenever we had an unplanned shutdown to our plant, we need to buy certain products that we typically produce from third-party to satisfy the obligation that we have. So that basically will increase our cost of revenue, which is higher than typically what we produce. So in a situation where heavy unplanned shutdown, in this case, for Aromatics, for MTBE, as well as PC Olefin, we need to buy a certain volume. I think I mentioned it earlier in my presentation, the term called strategic sourcing. So that is basically to meet the commitment that we have with our customer by buying the product that we're supposed to produce. And we're buying it from the people within this region. I got it. Very clear. Thank you. Thank you, Mayang. Thank you. Next, we have Anshul from JP Morgan. Go ahead, Anshul. Hi. Good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, Anshul. Yeah. Most of my questions were answered. I just have one housekeeping question. Were there any pre-operating costs related to PIC this quarter as well? Basically, the costs attributable to the product that we are producing during commissioning stage has already been expensed. But because it's yet to achieve COD, we are still capitalizing the interest. As in, we are yet to depreciate the plant. So other than that, we've already expensed off those expenses relating to the product that has been sold. Understand. Did you book any volumes in the O&D segment from PIC? I think if you look at the sales volume in the O&D segment, it includes the volumes from turnaround. So that's why you see, although we have few internal challenges in our O&D segment, the sales volume remains comparable. That is basically the impact of the marketing from turnaround volume itself. If you can share how much of that was attributable to PIC? I don't have the number right now, Anshul. Maybe in the next analyst briefing, we can quantify those volumes coming from turnaround and those volumes coming from other plants. I think if it's okay with you, I will provide that in our next analyst briefing. No problem. Thank you so much. Thank you, Anshul. There are no other questions in the queue. I think that concludes our briefing for today.