Good morning, I'm Michel Aupers, Investor Relations Manager of Royal BAM Group. Welcome to everyone joining this Analyst Meeting here in Amsterdam or in the audio webcast. This meeting is hosted by our CEO, Ruud Joosten, and our CFO, Frans den Houter. They will present the key points of BAM's results for the first half year 2023, which we published this morning. Afterwards, we will take analyst questions. I'll draw your attention to the disclaimer here. Ruud, over to you, please. Thank you, Michel. Good morning all. Our opening slide gives an aerial overview of Dawlish seafront in Devon, where BAM recently completed the new Dawlish sea wall. This will help protect the railway from extreme weather and rising sea levels. The entire seawall project has given the local economy an enormous boost through Network Rail and BAM commitment to using local labor, materials, and accommodation wherever possible. This brings us to the main item of this morning, our half-year results. BAM reports EUR 119 million Adjusted EBITDA in the first half year of 2023, reflecting an Adjusted EBITDA margin of 4%. I'm pleased that most of our businesses had a satisfactory performance, while the market remained challenging. Higher interest rates, ongoing inflation, and international tensions continue to affect short-term sentiment and cause some delays to new projects and home sales. More recently, the fall of the Dutch cabinet added to this uncertainty. It's good to see that civil engineering in the Netherlands continued the positive trend of recent quarters. They made a substantial contribution to our group results. Dutch residential construction made a satisfactory contribution to the result, although sales of new homes were down from a year ago. I will say more about that important market for BAM shortly. The lower result of the division in the Netherlands was mainly due to design issues and cost overruns at the 4 projects in Denmark. This is clearly disappointing. We will complete the projects in the coming quarters. The division, United Kingdom and Ireland, performed well and had a higher contribution. This was driven by ventures in Ireland. Belgium and our PPP joint venture, Invesis, also contributed to our result. Our trade working capital efficiency and our cash liquidity continued to normalize. We have moved away from large single-stage contracts with large prepayments. Our order book remains at a good level. Our capital ratio is now 22.3%, which means an improvement of 1.1% versus end year 2022. Over the first six months, the group realized a net income of EUR 60 million, reflecting earnings per share of EUR 0.22. Here you can see some of the 100 sustainable new build homes in Hof van Haag, in The Hague, delivered by our residential builder, BAM Wonen. The division, Netherlands, contributed an Adjusted EBITDA of EUR 55 million in the first half year, reflecting a margin of 4.1%. This was substantially below the performance realized in 2022. Later, I will come back to this. Let us start with residential construction and property development. These activities had a somewhat lower, but satisfactory contribution to our results. As you are well aware, the Dutch residential market is currently under pressure. It's due to a combination of developments: higher interest rates and building costs, somewhat lower consumer confidence, slow permit processes, and uncertainty regarding government regulation. Residential construction and property development remains a key focus area of our group. The structural shortage of homes in the Dutch market is a huge opportunity for BAM for the long run. We are committed to remain a leader in this market. A brief overview regarding our position in residential property development. BAM owns approximately 900 acres of land, of which around half is fully owned and half via participations. Almost all our land positions are located in areas where there's a high economic activity. Of our total development potential, 40% is in inner cities, and the remainder for suburban, suburban development. Around 50%-60% of our development potential is in the segment social, middle rent, and affordable private homes. The focus of the government and municipalities has been on the development of new homes in inner cities. However, in our opinion, the best way to increase the production of sustainable and affordable homes is also a higher focus on the development of suburban regions and locations. Otherwise, the Dutch government will not be able to build 900,000 new homes within the next decade. While the residential market is under pressure, we are currently forecasting to sell around 1,500 homes in 2023. We are positioning ourselves for when conditions improve. Over to the other segments in the Dutch division. We are disappointed with the performance of the non-residential, which was impacted by the losses of our four projects in Denmark. In Denmark, we are faced with the consequences of design issues and cost overruns. We are fully focused on completing these four projects in the coming quarters. A clear positive is the strong first half year of our activities in energy, water, and telecom. The Dutch civil engineering activities also continue to be positive. That trend started already in 2022. The Netherlands order backlog grew by 2%, driven by non-residential construction and civil engineering, partly offset by residential construction and property. Moving on to the division U.K. and Ireland. This slide shows the National Children's Hospital in Dublin. It shows the scale of this major project. We are fully resourced for the planned scope of work. The tireless effort of our staff and supply chain partners has driven the build phase to more than 85% of completion. We are fully committed to delivering this world-class hospital within the shortest possible time frame. The division, United Kingdom and Ireland, contributed EUR 63 million Adjusted EBITDA to the group, a substantial improvement versus last year. The performance reflects an Adjusted EBITDA margin of 4.1%. Ventures had a strong result, supported by the sale of an office development. Civil engineering U.K. showed a satisfactory performance, supported by a high activity level. The contribution of construction U.K. was impacted by supply chain issues on some larger contracts. In Ireland, the overall performance in the first half year was solid. The order book declined, mainly as a result of the additional review of the roads programs by the U.K. government. We are particularly pleased to win projects for two converter stations to connect subsea cables from offshore wind farms to the U.K. onshore power grid. This is a vital part of the U.K.'s decarbonization ambitions. We have leadership in this important growth market. Now, Frans, will you take us through the financials? Yes, Ruud, good morning, everyone. On this slide, you see an example of our new electric construction equipment. In line with our ambitious sustainability targets, we continue to invest in the electrification of plant and equipment in order to realize our recently accelerated strategic target of 80% reduction on Scope 1 and 2 CO2 in 2026 versus the base year, 2015. Now, let's have a look at the income statement. Overall, the highlights of our performance in the first half-year are: most activities showed a satisfactory performance against a background of challenging market conditions. It is good to see that our capital ratio further improved and that our order book remains at a good level. Trade working capital is following the seasonal pattern, but it's also reduced by the unwinding of advanced payments on large projects as a consequence of our adjusted tendering strategy, and it includes the effect of higher interest rates. We are pleased with the net result of EUR 60 million that is supported by the finance result due to higher interest rates, but also by the lower income taxes. With no impairments, a clean conversion to net result. Let's discuss a bit more detail. Revenues of the division, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom and Ireland combined, were 1% lower than the first half year of 2022. Our total group revenues declined by 11%. This reflects the effect of the divestments that we completed last year. Adjusted EBITDA was under EUR 90 million, applying a margin of 4%. The margin in both divisions were around 4%. I'd like to note that the comparable base from 2022 was rather high, as we were supported by the contribution of the divested companies, hedge revaluations, reserves related to Mphasis, and two large settlements. Combined, this explains a delta of more than EUR 60 million. The Adjusted EBITDA contribution of the two divisions combined was EUR 118 million. As explained by Ruud, the continued good performance of our civil activities in the Netherlands is clearly positive. The low result of the Netherlands was mainly due to the four non-residential projects in Denmark. Compared to last year, the contribution of the division, U.K. and Ireland, was EUR 15 million higher. The line, Germany, Belgium, and International, has a small positive result. BAM's share of Mphasis net results for the first half year was EUR 3 million. At this moment, Mphasis has 42 operational projects and five projects under construction and is fully focused on implementing their strategy. Our net results over the first half year is EUR 60 million, equal to EUR 0.22 per share. We report no impairments or reorganization costs. Although the interest rate is not supported for our construction business, our finance results improved to EUR 7 million. In other words, today, our negative working capital brings more value to the company. Furthermore, the income tax charge was low in recognition of additional deferred tax assets of EUR 5 million. This is related to the liquidation losses of four subsidiaries in BAM International, a direct consequence of the wind down process. Let's go to the cash flow statement. Our cash and cash equivalents totaled EUR 661 million, which is EUR 180 million below the position of year-end 2002. As said, following the seasonal pattern, but also impacted by portfolio decisions and interest rates. Some more detail: we had a good cash flow from operations of EUR 113 million, mainly driven by the operational performance of the company. The outflow of working capital totals EUR 180 million, basically explains the movement from year-end cash position. This is driven by seasonal pattern, unwinding of advanced payments on large projects, and end result of the increased interest rates. Cash flow from investing activities primarily relates to regular capital expenditure. As a reminder, the comparable period last year included a net outflow of EUR 14 million from the divestments. The cash flow from financing activities included EUR 34 million of dividends-related payments, of which EUR 24 in cash and EUR 12 million for the repurchase of shares to compensate for the dividend in stock. Now, let's have a look at the financial position. As per earlier guidance, we see a further increase of our working capital related to the balance sheet and the changes in trade working capital efficiency from -15.8% to - 14.8% at the end of the first half year. As stated before, we expect a further gradual increase of the trade working capital efficiency in the coming periods. It is good to see that our capital ratio increased during the first half year by 1.1% to 22.3% in total. Back to you, Ruud. Thank you, Frans. Before we look ahead, we show you one of the major non-residential projects in the U.K., Sky Studios Elstree. Sky's new state-of-the-art film and TV studio, with 13 sound stages just north of London. We continue our strong focus on order book quality and selective tendering. The order book is at a solid level of EUR 9.5 billion. The change since the end of 2022 is mainly caused by the further review of road programs in the U.K. by the government. The trends in interest rates and inflation, and the wider macroeconomic uncertainty, continue to cause some delays to tendering and starting of new projects. In the Netherlands, we hope to see a new and stable government in place, that will maintain essential investments for energy transition and infrastructure, take action to support the construction of much needed new homes for our citizens, and bring practical solutions to the nitrogen issue, while respecting the natural environment. In the U.K., there's a long-term pipeline for education projects and robust opportunities in healthcare and regional frameworks. The energy sector is offering significant opportunities as the U.K. drives towards independence in this area. Infrastructure market is expected to remain relatively steady. Also, the outlook for the rail market is favorable. There are attractive opportunities in key markets in Ireland, and BAM remains focused on winning projects with the right risk-reward balance. Now we have reached August, we are updating our outlook for the year. We expect to deliver an Adjusted EBITDA margin higher than 4% for the full year 2023. Now, we will take your questions. Michel, who's first? Tijs, the floor is yours. Good morning, everybody. Tijs Hollestelle, ING. Hi. Yeah, my first question is about, let's say, the outlook statement in the beginning of the year, as compared to now. My question is: did you already include or anticipate the quite positive contribution from the U.K. property business? Because that ventures division normally makes EUR 6 million, EUR 7 million per six months, and now there is a EUR 17 million beat on that, on that number, which for the you know, for the stock market, is difficult to predict. Was that included in your previous outlook? Yeah, this, this kind of sale, of course, is not a one-time event, it's part of the, the natural of the core business of ventures, the property, w- which is part of ventures, the property department, division within the U.K. Of course, we knew that this was completed and ready for sale. Of course, you, you can never plan, let's say, in, in detail, when, the deal is go- is going to come, but it was part of our 2023 business. Okay, I assume that you would not like us to put in these kind of gains every year going forward, because it, it sporadically happens, in my view. Yeah, but, but it was included in the Q1 numbers, and there, the previous outlook, as such, included this result. Yeah. The, the slight downward adjustment is basically because of the non-residential projects in Denmark? Well, I think it's a, it's a combination of, of the, of certain uncertainties in the market. If you look at the Dutch market especially, I think the U.K. is pretty stable, where we are more focused on infrastructure, healthcare, and education, which is pretty solid. Whereas in the Netherlands, of course, there's more pressure on the residential part of the market. I think that's, that's a critical aspect of our performance in the Netherlands. Over the years, it was very successful, of course, that part of the business, now it's more under pressure. You also see that in the number of houses that we, that we've sold. It's a combination of things. Clearly disappointing, the result in the, the effect of the results in Denmark. kind of in a last phase of the de-risking of, let's say, regions within the portfolio, we are finalizing these four projects, and we stopped tendering there. Indeed, it is a disappointment, and it has an impact on the result. I think for the, for the rest of the year, what we say with this outlook is that the second half year will be better. That's the, the more positive translation, I think, of the message. Of course, we try to underpromise and overdeliver with this one. That's also clear. Yeah. From my understanding, the first half EBITDA of the Danish projects includes significant loss provisions, the rest of the project should be, if the provisions are right, let's say, at zero margin. It's very difficult to, to, to, in this business, to make remarks on, on projects, is my experience after a couple of years, so I'm not going to do that. Let's say we, we just stick to the bookkeeping rules of IFRS in this one. Yeah, how BAM normally does this. Yeah. all, all, all that we, that we see and that we have in the planning is included in the half year numbers, as for each project. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that's helpful. Yeah and also diving in a bit deeper on, yeah, the impact of the property development business. I should know it, as an analyst covering the sector for a long time, but there is, let's say, a direct impact on the results from the low home sales, but probably there's also a spillover effect from, let's say, finishing off milestone payments from past projects. How does the results going forward will be impacted by this very low number of sold houses? I don't think that's, that's a clear link with, with that amount. I think there is a clear direct effect of having less houses sold within the results. For, for the whole year, we still expect 1,500 homes, so that will have an, a positive effect in the second half year. Yeah. I think our, our outlook is also based on that, on that number. Selling the house tells you something about state of the market, and it's always a bit phasing in there, because in some quarters you do larger transactions with investors. The profit-taking that you relate to, is when the transfer is done at the notary. During the construction, if you realize profit as you, as you complete the building, and then, yeah, when you deliver to the final owner, the transfer at the notary. You do the final profit-taking on the, on the development, while the selling of the homes, is more a market indicator. Yeah. That's the major driver for taking the profitability. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also what I understand is that although the number, the volume was low, your margins were relatively okay, so you had not do fire sales in order to. No. No. Yeah, it's just on an absolute level, a lower contribution, but the margins is still okay? Yeah. Then there, there's of course, also a big impact from the, the residential building activities of BAM, which are still executing, let's say, higher home sales of last year. So there will be- Yes ... let's say, a downturn in front of you. There the business has lower margin on average. The impact is, I would say. Yes ... less, less significant visible in the numbers. They had a pretty good first half year, also reflecting a lot of activity in renovation. That's an growing business in the Netherlands. When people are not moving, you see an uptick in renovation of homes, maintenance of homes, but also the electrification and, and that kind of investments that are going on and are, let's say, increasing in the Netherlands. Indeed, maybe lesser building activities or, or finalizing the homes that were, let's say, sold earlier, but an uptick in a clear uptick in renovation activities. Then you're doing the work for institutional, yeah, home portfolio owners because they are- For example, yeah. ... not private individuals. I'm not going into it, but- No, no, typically larger volumes, so. Okay, that's quite interesting. The associations, building associations, for example. Yeah ... 80 houses or, or that kind of projects, 48 houses, that, that kind, that numbers are then, realistic. Yeah. One final question for now: you probably have seen, let's say, the transaction of one of your competitors in the Netherlands, basically replenishing its, its land bank position. I also noticed with BAM, that, the land bank is coming down in the past 10 years. Are you now more actively also searching for building rights, land positions? What is the, let's say, the opportunity for BAM here? Also, if you make those investments, where can I exactly find them in the, in the cash flow statement? Is it in, in CapEx or is it in financial... Yeah, maybe the last question is in the PPE line, and then we disclose normally, yeah, we provide more color on it. Our land position is typically above EUR 400 million, EUR 420 million today, roughly, and it's stable. We continuously invest. The reason why the number has gone down is because we have focused on quality of the land bank. We've reduced and we have had impairments in the past on that to come to a good quality of the land bank with a high visibility of turning those land positions into projects. Yeah, then we always do, sometimes we do a bit larger transactions, yeah. We did a small. In June, we had a transaction. In June, we did a small transaction, and we continuously look in the market if there are smaller, kind of acquisitions. We did, we did one. EUR 2 million investments. Yeah, 10. That was a EUR 10 million, EUR 10 million, EUR 12 million investment, for example. Okay. That's unchanged from the last years? That, that line is still the same, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Hey, good morning. Tim Ehlers from Kepler. Well, now that we already talked about the, the acquisition by Heijmans, I'll just jump to that question right away. I mean, your, your cash position is decent, the balance sheet is solid. What's your planning regarding the, the capital allocation going forward? Do you also maybe look around if there comes up opportunity similar to that one, or is your trust in the Dutch housing market not that good yet to buy a property developer? What's your, what's your view there? Yeah, it's always very risky to talk about M&A strategies for a company, especially in a small market, and not so many players, so we have to be a bit careful there. I think we have a solid land bank, so we have solid opportunity to indeed have, let's say, increase in sales going forward. We see indeed a dip now in the home sales, but going forward, that there will be an increase, and BAM will benefit from that. We always look for opportunities, of course, in M&A. I think a couple of years ago, it was completely out of the question that BAM could do an M&A activity or an acquisition. We are now in a much better position, looking at our balance sheet and our cash position, and the company's is de-risked to a certain extent, to a high extent. We're looking at profitability. You saw a very nice conversion to net profit in the first half year, which is really important, I think, for shareholders and stakeholders. We said earlier that we also want to be a reliable dividend payer to our shareholders. The stable or growing dividend is also very important for us in that respect, if you talk about capital allocation. Okay, clear. The internal view on the housing market is, okay, we see a trough more or less now, and then, you expect an uptick, let's say, in the next year? Yeah, I think, our colleagues and, and, and I, I can commit to that, that, that kind of number of 65,000 homes in 2023 built is, is clearly a decrease, compared to last year's, which is a bit painful if you look at the deficit of homes in the Netherlands for our, for our citizens, for the citizens of the Netherlands. Okay, a couple of reasons that to that, I think we, we talked about it earlier. Indeed, you see people now already getting a bit used to the higher interest rate, but it's still historically kind of a normal interest rate in the Netherlands. People also see in their balance- in their... Not in their balance sheet, but on their payslip, on a monthly basis, they see the uptick there as well because of the sometimes 7%, 8%, 9%, 10% increase in salary. They see that they also can afford a little bit higher mortgage, mortgage payment. You see there already a bit of a stabilization in house prices in June, July, and we see that also in our, as our commercial activities. Hopeful as we are, we think and hope that the dip should be manageable in 2024, but we expect a dip in building activity for next year. Okay, clear. Thanks. One question regarding the construction property division. Residential construction down on, on revenue level, renovation up. What did non-residential construction do? Was it also dipping like we've seen it in, in the U.S., for example? Is there a concerning trend in that case? Because overall, the, the revenue, yeah, is flat, so. Did non-residential perform better than expected? Non-residential performed, I think, as expected. Like I said before, there is some hesitation in new projects in non, non-residential. We were lucky or lucky, our salespeople did a good job, earlier, I think, in commercial activity to secure a few, bigger projects in the Netherlands. I think we communicated on the new police station in The Hague. Yeah Berghaus here in Amsterdam, which is a pretty big project. We are active in a few big ones at this moment in time. We're pretty happy with where we are. In general, I think the non-residential market is in is having a a pretty difficult time in the Netherlands. going forward, we have to expect a small dip further because. No, I would not say that because I think our portfolio looks, looks strong, and I see some, some interesting projects coming up in the pipeline. Okay. Overall, I'm pretty positive, looking at sales in non-residential. Okay, one last question to wrap it up. Regarding Ireland, I mean, the dip there is explained by a further finalization of the Children's Hospital. What will be the normal level of revenues there? Is it then after the hospital because you're not going for large projects like that again, or...? We were almost around EUR 600 at a certain point of time. That was very boosted by indeed revenue on New Children's. EUR 400 million-EUR 500 million company, EUR 400 million-EUR 500 million on an annual basis as kind of indicative would be a good starting point. Okay. Ireland, the Children's Hospital will be finalized this year or...? Next year. Next year. Okay. 85% now. Yeah. It's coming to the conclusion phase, but it's, it's a huge, very impressive project, and you can imagine that, that will take some time as well. I mean, the end phase, but we, we plan to end it first half year 2024. Okay. Thanks a lot. Can I? Okay, yeah. Shoot. Johan Van Der Veen, ABN AMRO, ODDO. Hi. I would like to ask a question on the international part. Of course, it's renovating, you did have quite big steps there. Talking about underlying performance there, you, you mentioned that Belgium was at a satisfactory level. Could you elaborate a little bit on the remaining part and what maybe could explain? Because we, we argue that Belgium at satisfactory levels would be somewhere yeah more towards the 4%. Could you elaborate a little bit on that, but mainly at the German part, what you did there? Yeah. if you- Results Yeah, it's a good question. If you look at the revenue, it is a small revenue compared to where we were. The EUR 400 million we saw last year included still the divested companies. Today, this number is basically Belgium. Then indeed, if you look at the performance of Belgium, I think we'd already said in Q1, around 4%, and we're happy with that, and that's still the case. We still have some rundown costs on BAM International, where we have completed, of course, all the physical work on the project. Yeah, we are unwinding those entities, and there's still, yeah, some aftermath there, which is all we're not worried about, but it's having its impact on the bottom line, of course. Okay, is that more or less already, at an end or is this something- Nah, that, that will continue second half of this year, maybe a little bit, of course, to come early next year, but that's running down and that's minimal. Okay. So you- Yeah. I agree. ... you will see the, the impact of, of the positive impact of Belgium coming through, more visible in the bottom line should be, emerging as we. Yeah ... phase out. In a year from now, probably it will be Belgium. Yeah. Indeed, I think we're happy with the development... Yeah in winding down these activities. Yeah. ... and some big steps to make in the second half of this year, but going into the right direction. It's really, yeah, the administration side of it, and fiscal, and closing those entities, and BAM International had a footprint in a lot of countries, so we're... Yeah, Maarten? Maarten Verbeek, The Idea. Firstly, if you want to disclose them separately, please, but I don't think you will be, but maybe you would like to give the combination of the losses you had in Denmark and the office in U.K., just to get a good feel of the underlying development. If we would combine those two results, would it be break even or would it still be a loss or a plus? Yeah, indeed, we, we never go into individual deals. We're also protecting our customers, of course, because they would not appreciate it. Both were, let's say, substantial amounts. I think you can calculate yourself a bit if you look at the historical results. I think we should leave it with that, I guess. Yeah. Frans, but I'm looking at you as my conscience here. Agree. Okay. Secondly, when we look at the order book of the U.K., even excluding the highway contract, that's coming down pretty rapidly, the past year. Is that due to poor market, or are you more picky in what you, what to, what to tender for? Yeah, it's a combination, I guess. First of all, last year already, we took a decrease in cutting some of these road projects from the portfolio of BAM Nuttall, at the civil company. This year we took the last part, I think, and it was- we didn't do that, it was a decision of the British government to do that, another GBP 300 million out of the portfolio. Which is not a real problem, I think, for the profitability of the group, to be honest. Also from a sustainability point of view, it's not the worst part of the business to lose in the U.K. On the other hand, you're absolutely right, we are very picky with, with big non-residential contracts anyway, and that's what it is in the U.K. U.K construct is non-residential, as we don't have the residential part, which is sometimes also lucky when the, when that market's under pressure, like in the Netherlands. Okay. You've stated before that your working capital ratio will come down or go up, become less negative. Yeah. The target is still to, to keep it below the -10. To what level do you still expect it to come down? Yeah, that's the, the most difficult thing, I think, in a construction company, forecasting cash trade working capital. We, we gave guidance, the past quarters, that we expect to reduce 1%-2% on trade working capital, or increase, become less negative this year and next year. That, I think we should hang on to that position. This year we see it come down, - 15.8% year end, today, - 14.8%. That will not be more negative, because you have some strong quarters running out. The working capital itself will stabilize roughly second half of the year, so then the percentage will, by default, become less negative second half of the year. Then next year, again, bit careful here, that the Trade working capital will move towards the -10%, at a pace of 1%-2%. That's really, that's driven by, I think smart portfolio decisions to step away from those large projects that bring too much risk to the company, and then not receiving the pre-funding anymore on new ones, while we of course have to, as we complete those projects, basically repay the client on those advanced positions. That's a more stronger effect we see today than the seasonal pattern. Okay. Yeah. You already mentioned the benefit is that you have a nice interest income? Yeah. What do you expect this to be for the full year? What do you think of the interest rates? That would be my first question. Let's assume that it's stable, it will continue as, as being a positive contribution to bring it to net result. Where I think the first half year was a bit stronger, maybe, than the second half year. It will not be more in the second half as it was in the first half. What I noticed was, when I look at your geographical P&L, that this interest is more or less fully allocated to the U.K. Yeah. Does it also imply that your whole negative working capital, Trade working capital, is allocated in the U.K? It's a good question, but we see typically that our U.K. businesses bring a more negative trade working capital, so we have more cash in the machine there than in the Netherlands, that is available. Yeah, the U.K. interest rates are also a bit more attractive than the Netherlands, so that helps in this scenario. Yes, it's a big part is there, and brings, brings value. Okay, then, lastly, for the moment, you stated, about conversion from, from your Adjusted EBITDA to, your net result. Do you have a specific target for that? Yes, the target is, of course, to prevent impairments, and that's very important, and we have in the past not been successful. I think we're really happy last year with what we saw. Again, very pleased that we just basically have no impairments first half of this year. On the tax side, around 20% is a good number for BAM, given our tax position in the Netherlands, where we still have losses that we can consume. This one is supported by the unwinding process of BAM International- ... where we just discussed the cost side of it in the line Germany, Belgium, International. Here you see, you have some tax uplift as we close those entities. The losses there of the original investments that we've done, we can deduct from our tax position. Now we had a conversion ratio of some 50% in H1 2023. Is, is, is that a goal going forward or? No, we give guidance on the just the EBITDA, and I give you these inputs on, on, and you have to define your, your conversion% yourself. Okay, thanks. Leontien de Waal, ABN AMRO, ABN AMRO. I have two questions. The first one involves the nitrogen issue in the Netherlands, which is still not solved. In the meantime, there are other issues popping up, like water quality requirements also coming from the E.U. and implying difficulties for construction companies. What's your look upon that? Might it impact the delays in projects, or might it have an impact on costs? My second question is also about a specific Dutch issue, I think, and that's more or less the network congestion, which is increasingly becoming a topic and might also cause delays in project, impacting perhaps the residential business, non-residential business, but also infra projects. What's your look upon that? Yeah, very important question. Also, looking at our sustainability strategy that we launched early this, this year in Q1, where we have a look at all these kind of KPIs. We're now talking about our financial KPIs, but indeed, our non-financial KPIs are just as important. It's a, it's also a very difficult question to, to answer because nitrogen, for example, is for now, more or less a Dutch problem in the portfolio with a little bit of Belgium. Of course, it's also difficult to solve. For our project at this moment in time, it's not a big problem. Also, has to do with the fact, of course, that we are not involved anymore in this very big infrastructural, let's say, roads in, in the Netherlands that are stopped by legislation, but for now, by the, by the judges. Long term, of course, this needs to be solved. Also, when you want to build houses, you need infrastructure as well. This needs to be solved, and again, we are pushing for a, for a stable government who will take us through this period in a realistic way, still respecting the national and the natural environment, which is also really important. We need to break through, I think, the standstill and come for, for the Netherlands to a, to a good solution there, where not everything is stopped and blocked. In general, the opportunity for BAM in the whole transformation of the Netherlands, but also for the U.K., has to do with the fact that there needs to be a enormous amount of electrification, but also the water situation in the Netherlands, the adaptation, the climate adaptation is something where BAM can play a very positive role. There is a negative side, of course, of this, for consumers and for the building industry as well in working on projects short term, but long term, there's a huge opportunity for companies like BAM to help the government in realizing a long-term solution in a sustainable way. That has to do with the water management, but also the electrification of the country, where EUR 10s of billions will be invested by companies like TenneT, but also the local companies like Liander, for example, and Nuon, to make that happen, to make the electric society possible. We play a leading role there. You have short-term maybe hiccups, but long term, this is the future of BAM. For the moment, you don't see any big delays coming up, popping up in your order book? No, I, I see indeed the opportunity in some of the big TenneT jobs, for example, where we are doing. That gives an uptick. Of course, nitrogen is an issue for the total country. In some of the provinces, it's very difficult to like North Brabant, it's difficult to start up new projects. Then you have to look very carefully to our own portfolio. Then we see that we are not hit so much at this moment in time. It doesn't say that it is no problem for the Netherlands, of course. Thank you. Yeah, Tijs Hollestelle. I have a follow-up question. I know this is not your favorite subject, talking about individual projects, but yeah, I think for the stock market, it's quite important what to expect. The question is: Do you have, let's say, visibility on certain, let's say, claim settlements or discussions with customers towards the end of the year in any of the major important entities? I can imagine that, I mean, there are still some legacy projects, you have kind of visibility on some milestone, important project milestones or maybe court cases coming towards us. Is there anything we should expect? I've heard the update last year, but I've, of course, lost a bit of track where we are with all these. Yeah ... problematic files. Like, like your introduction, every word I say about it, of course, is very risky and speculative. Fact of the matter is that the number of risky projects and risky countries has decreased immensely over the last couple of, let's say, three years. I also said the de-risking was not finalized, and you see that today in the Danish operation. I'm really dissatisfied with that, of course, but we are closing down the entity, closing the projects. Okay, it shows you that the de-risking is not completed yet, and we still probably need the full strategic period to, to make that happen. Still there are a few bigger projects that started before the de-risking period, in our portfolio. The good news is we didn't start new projects with that kind of risk profile over the last three years. Yeah, there will be some settlements going on. We don't see, at least I don't see big things coming up on short notice. Good news is that we settled in, in the U.K., yeah, the... One of our old time risky projects, the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway, big settlement that we finally made a deal with the British government or the local British government, which is now also out of our portfolio. One by one, we are finalizing these risk elements on our list, and working very hard there, making very good progress. It's very difficult to make a judgment on the second half year, Frans, looking at you as well. outlook is there, so you can see we expect a better second half of the year. That's where we are. Yeah. Rightfully so, eh? Cambridgeshire Guided Busway impacting our risk profile, reducing it, that's a settlement, was a cost out, but it de-risked the company. If you look at the lumpiness of the settlements in your question- Yeah. Yeah, we... I think the de-risking is, is in the fact that under IFRS 15, we are very prudent in, in valuing commercial settlements. In the last stage of all the projects that we do, you typically have a negotiation, and you aim for a positive outcome there, but you, you just wait with putting it in your books until you have a signature. That by default, we're always bringing a bit of, yeah, variability on those on those projects. That's why we point out if, if there are, like in Q1, where we had a nice transaction and, and there's a bit of uplift, but it will stay part of the business, that there is a bit volatility. It should be in a more conservative valuation where we are today, that should lead to a positive normally. Yeah. As I understand correctly, you, as the new management team, built in more leeway, financial leeway on these provisions, so to dampen potential negative impacts? Yeah, because the, the, the reason is that not only BAM, but also other construction companies, have a tendency to report, let's say, quite good, let's say, third quarter numbers, and then a lot of these settlements take place towards the end of the year. In my experience, I've seen a lot of profit warnings on these settlements in the fourth quarter. Yeah, and we are more, as I said, driven by IFRS 15, but also by the fact that we want to de-risk the company and not be aggressive in our valuations, not on claims, not on variation order, and not speculate on settlements if we're not convinced by evidence. Also not on major projects, because, yeah, you, you probably have a whole list of these claim settlements which people bring to you as, as board members, but there are, let's say, a few which are quite significant? No, yeah, but I think the best evidence is last year, where we disclosed settlements on the OpenIJ and Museum of the Future in, in, in, in, in similar fashion, where in the end of that project, you are just conservative, you have valued your costs, and that's part of your project management. A project can be good or bad, but in the final settlement... Yeah it should bring you a bit of relief. Yeah. You, in general, you feel more comfortable with the balancing out? Yeah. Yeah. Well, look at Infra Nederland. You see now stable results. Yeah ... for a couple of quarters without us having huge discussions on OpenIJ or Level, for example. Yeah. That is a big improvement, I think. It doesn't mean it will be always like that, but it's a complete different discussion, I think. Yeah ... when we started this process three years ago, because it was the only subject we talked about. 75% of the time was about that part of the business. That's, that's nice, but of course, we have to be careful and, Yeah one by one, settle these things. It's the first time ever, I think, in 20 years, that there are no questions about the Dutch infrastructure, so that is indeed a positive. You're right, indeed. Yeah. Okay, thanks. Maarten Verbeek, yeah, the follow-up on, on the previous topic about the Cambridge Guided. You mentioned it has been in cash out, but it has not impacted the P&L account? It did. There was a. There was a small negative in, in that settlement process, a small cost. Okay. brief question about the... There was a significant de-risking, so there's a claim discussion with the client, and then in the end, we settled for something we are pleased with. Okay. Then the investigation of the Dutch authorities, the field, you're not willing to get into that topic, fine. Do you already have some insight? When do you think you can give more clarity and more information about this, this topic? Very difficult for us to, to, to answer that one. Of course, we are fully cooperating with the Dutch government on this one. Yeah, fully, also, of course, dependent on their progress and their communication to us in that sense, very difficult to predict. Again, we are fully cooperating, and yeah, let's, let's hope this will end quick, of course, that, that's good for the company, and we are... That's why we are cooperating to 100% with the authorities to, to, to finalize this project. Again, this is fully in the hands of the authorities in the Netherlands. Okay. Maybe just one, one quick question. When I read through your note, and then you mentioned that for Construction U.K., the EBITDA was impacted by inflation and supply chain challenges, you don't mention it for any of the other divisions. Is there a reason why that division is more impacted by it? Or, do you... In general, how do you see the, the current situation with cost inflation and supply chain? Do you already see easing and? Yeah, I think the, the total, the, the huge spike, I think, is easing. Still, I think on the labor costs are still increasing also for next year. Of course, we're pretty successful till now to calculate it through in our tenders. No real impact on profitability, but again, hesitation on these projects because on some of these projects, because costs are increasing, of course, and investors and customers are then saying, "Well, is this the right moment to go for a new office or a new home or a big other project or renovation?" That's what you see a little bit in the order book. On top of the fact that we are more picky in risk-profit balance. That, that's, I think, the balance where we are today. Inflation will go on, I think, especially based indeed on labor costs, because you see indeed an ease in, in, in, in, in some of the categories in materials. Okay, you also don't see, a normalization of the, the labor market yet, so it's still tough to get the people you want to get? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and that's of course, a special element right now that you see, still. Employment is still very strong. You see some of the demands under pressure, but the economy is still strong, I think, because of consumer spending and no unemployment yet, which is, I think, good for all of us. Okay, that's it from me. Thanks. A bit related, because at the start of the meeting, Johan Van Der Veen, ABN AMRO again, you mentioned this U.K. coastal project where you work together with local suppliers, local subcontractors. Is this a little bit the way to go and gives this you a kind of edge and gives it you ultimately a better pricing as well for these kind of projects? Because you specifically mentioned it. Well, we mentioned there the, the, the element of using local, spending, let's say, investment that is in, goes into project, in using local, subcontractors and investing it in the, the businesses of the Dawlish region at this moment in time. I think that's why we mention it, and that's also part of our sustainability, strategy. Yeah ... to do, when you do a project somewhere, that you also bring value to the local community. Especially with bigger projects, that can be substantial. Also using local restaurants or, or local suppliers of food to do the project. It sounds maybe small, but for that community it can be important. The project can be three, four, five years sometimes. You try to work together with the customer, and this, in this case, rail, British Rail, to also make it a nice and, and good investment for, for the local community over there. It helps also with the positive sentiment towards the project, which can be sometimes difficult, of course, with delays and logistical issues in a, in a, in a small community. That's why we, we show this project. It's more and more a part of the, I would say, the ESG profile you want to have. It doesn't give you a true advantage? Well, we, we use, of course, our. If we can, we use local subcontractors, too, but of course, we first look at quality in bringing-. Yeah ... because it's a pretty complicated project, so we look at the quality of the subcontractors to help us there. On top of that, and in combination with that, we try to make it an interesting project for local- Yeah for the local people as well. That's completely in line with our sustainability strategy. To your last point, it's really valued by clients as well, so they also, if that is in your proposition... They're prepared to pay for that? Yeah, if that's in your proposition, Social value is the, is the theme, and you bring that to communities, of course, clients, want to be involved in that as well, and they are willing to pay a premium for that. We see that the U.K. is a bit further with that than the Netherlands, in that social value element. Also, in calculating the value of that for local citizens, for example. Yeah ... which is fully in line with our strategy, and we learn from that here, here also in the Netherlands, to bring that into our tendering, processes. Yeah. Because it makes our, our work also much nicer, of course, if you get into that kind of environment where people appreciate the project, and, that's very helpful. Okay. Okay, maybe, yeah, it's good to finish the conference. Okay. Well, thank you for coming, ladies and gentlemen. This brings us to the end of the meeting. Thanks for being present here in Amsterdam again and for listening to our webcast. We're looking forward to meeting you next time for our trading update for the first nine months on November 2. Thank you, and have a good day.