Good day, and welcome to Van Lanschot Kempen Analyst Call 2023 Half Year Results presentation. Today's conference is being recorded. For the duration of the call, your lines will be in listen-only. However, you will have the opportunity to ask questions, and this can be done by pressing star one on your telephone keypad to register your question. If you require assistance at any point, please press star zero and you'll be connected to an operator. I will now hand you over to Maarten Edixhoven, CEO. Please go ahead. Thank you, Marian, and good morning to all, and thank you for joining this call about our half year 2023 results for Van Lanschot Kempen. I'm here today with Jeroen Kroes, our CFO, who will take you through our numbers in more detail later. I would like to start, however, with a few remarks about our first six months in general. Well, against the quite volatile economic and geopolitical environment, we delivered a healthy set of results, which clearly shows our wealth management strategy is working. I'm particularly pleased with our net inflow in assets under management of EUR 3.2 billion, with contributions from both private client segments, as well as our wholesale and institutional segment, in combination with stable margins. This continued growth is a clear sign of the confidence our clients have in us as a wealth manager, and I'm particularly also thankful to our teams and the effort they put into maintaining these close relations with our clients. As you have seen, net profit was up 8% to EUR 51.8 million. And if you look at that, we recorded strong recurring commission income and interest income. However, these were partially offset by a loss in our investment banking client segments due to the lower deals and M&A in the markets, higher interest charges on the medium-term loans, notes, and a lower result on our participating interests. Jeroen will dive into those as well later. Our efficiency ratio is clearly not there where we want it to be, with obvious differences per segment. We are taking specific actions here and remain firmly committed to our target of 70% overall cost income ratio. Overall, I would say these results are a reflection of the different dynamics in our segments. Private clients has excellent momentum, both in the Netherlands and Belgium, with high net inflows and good results. We see that the integration of Mercier Vanderlinden is progressing very well, and next year onwards, we will show private clients Belgium as a separate segment. Testimony to the important growth of our second home market in Belgium. The wholesale and institutional segments added assets under management, yet profitability really needs improvement, which is why we are taking specific measures in that segment to improve further the profitability. Investment banking, as I said, faced a challenging market environment for transactions, driven by higher interest rates, though we have seen some recent improvements there. Finally, a few words on liquidity and capital position. I'm happy to report that these remain at high levels, well above our own target level. CET1 ratio came out at 21.6%, and this enables us to propose a capital return of EUR 2 per share, which also has been approved by the regulator for later this year. Delivering on our 2021 promise to return EUR 145 million in excess capital, as we have transformed to a lower risk balance sheet, while still expecting to have excess capital above 70.5% at year-end. If you move to the next slide, sustainability remains a key part of our strategy, and you will see here that the progress we are making on our targets relate to sustainability. We put a lot of time and effort in the new regulatory requirements, engaging with our clients on their sustainability profile, and integrating that into also their risk profile. We remain focused on year-on-year improvements and taking steps in both our own organization, in our loan book and our investment solutions, committed to a 7% CO2 reduction per year. Since 2019, we reduced the footprint of our own organization already by 40%. But our focus here remains having the right dialogue with our clients and the companies we invest in, to make the right steps in the transitions that we face. Simultaneously, we believe that this will also further lower the risk profile of the firm in the long run. On the next slide, a few words on the Robeco acquisition. We are making good progress here with the integration of this transaction, which closed July first. We are really, really very satisfied with our position now in the important mass affluent market, and this is an important milestone for us, focusing on our growth with a capital-light balance sheet. As Van Lanschot becomes a leading online investment platform in the Netherlands with a combined assets under management of EUR 6.3 billion. We will put all our efforts in making our integration on time, and this integration so far is going very well. Also, we announced yesterday that Evi is also stepping into the changing pension landscape in the Netherlands due to the new regulations, and we will enter the markets, the intermediate markets for pension advice with our propositions, for Dutch people that still have to save additionally in pensions. Also, an important step. We will update you in later calls on the progress of the Robeco online acquisition. All in all, as I've said, I think we delivered a healthy set of results and a good balance between return to our shareholders and our clients. We remain focused on executing our wealth management strategy. It's working. We see strong continued net inflows and growth on back of having the right on and off-balance sheet solutions for our clients. Good progress in the integration of Mercier Vanderlinden in Belgium, as well as the start of the integration of Robeco's online investment platform, and delivering on the promise of autonomous growth and bolt-on acquisitions. With a disciplined approach to capital and liquidity, reflected by the high capital and liquidity ratios, but also still work to do on our cost efficiency ratio, and improving that towards the target of 70%, where we are committed to. It's important there, we continue to remain really investing in our talent and in our growth. Just to wrap up, I would like to hand over to our CFO, Jeroen Kroes, to go into much more detail than I did in our first half-year numbers. Jeroen, over to you. Thanks, Maarten. Let's run you through the slides. I will start from slide eight and then go all the way to the end. Starting with the key messages, Maarten already mentioned profit for the first half year amounted to EUR 51.8 million. Zooming in on the segments, which I will do later, but private clients, I'm really satisfied with the results, strong momentum, and a high inflow of EUR 2.2 billion. Wholesale and institutional clients, despite the net inflow of EUR 1 billion, we reported a small loss. As Maarten already mentioned, we're actively working on improving efficiency and profits in this segment, and I will provide more details later on. Investment banking clients, challenging markets there as always, as will also be further discussed later on. We have a robust capital and liquidity position, CET1 of 21.6%, LCR of 172%, and this robust position gives us the opportunity to propose a capital return of EUR 2 per share. Let's turn to the slide where we make a bridge between the results of last year and the first half of this year, so the first half of last year and the first half of this year. You see that the results is came in higher, but there's are big deltas in between. Starting from the left, securities commission was was up on the back of the good developments within the private client segment. Then you see the other commission, there, is a decline, and that has all to do with the challenging markets within investment banking. Interest income grew significantly, caused by the better net interest margins in a period of fast-rising ECB rates. Then we come to other income, and there are some main contributors to this. The first one is the interest charges on our medium-term notes, and the medium-term notes are reported under other income. We have a bit more than EUR 500 million of medium-term notes outstanding that are part of our regular funding and that are priced at variable rates. So the sharp rise in interest rates has caused an increase in the interest expenses that are on this portfolio and that are accounted for in other income. Please do note that the income from this funding is in the line interest income. It's important to know. Second reason for the negative delta in other income is the fact that we had a book profit on the sale of one of our participating interests in the first half of 2022, while we had no sales in the first half of this year. Expenses were up, that's the next block, because of investments in growth of our organization and because of inflationary pressure. Let's then move to the segments and start with the private clients. Already mentioned a very good net inflow. You also see that the market performance was positive and so we grew the assets under management from 40.5-45.3. A large part of the net inflow is in non-discretionary asset management, and the largest part of this is in our advisory proposition. So we see our clients allocated, allocating more of their money to, fixed income instruments, and they also do that, to a large extent, through the advisory proposition. Then on the next page, zooming in on Belgium. As you know, we completed the acquisition of the remaining 30%, Mercier Vanderlinden, and are now working on the integration of both companies. As of the first of January of next year, we will continue as Mercier Van Lanschot, and Mercier Van Lanschot will, from that moment, also become a separate segment within VLK. The results in Belgium for the first half year were good, with inflows amounting to EUR 300 million, with Van Lanschot Belgium and Mercier Vanderlinden both contributing. Then we go to the wholesale institutional client segment. It reported a small loss in the first half of the year. Already in 2022, we started initiatives to improve the efficiency and the profitable growth of this segment. We made good steps in improving the efficiency of processes and systems. In addition, we also invested in further improving the commercial strength of our sales organization. And although we see that these initiatives have a positive impact on how we operate, we see that extra measures are necessary to speed up the return to a profitable situation in this segment. For this reason, we intend to reduce the number of FTE working for this segment with over 20. We move to the next slide, slide number 13, which is an important slide. This slide shows the annual recurring fees that we earn. Let me explain what it shows. It's the annualized fees. It's based on a fee level that we would earn if over the next 12 months, markets and assets under management would remain stable. And as you can see, this number grew by more than 10% over the last 6 months to almost EUR 380 million. So this shows that we are in a good position for the months to come when it comes to recurring fees on commission income. Also important is that we managed to keep our margins solid, with margins at private clients up to 65 basis points from 63, and stable margins in the wholesale and institutional clients segment. Then the investment bank, the challenging markets and the rising interest rates led to a negative operating result of EUR 4.8 million before tax. In reaction to the challenging markets, we are adapting the organization, meaning that we are sharply controlling costs and temporarily not filling in vacancies. At the same time, we keep the sector teams ready to benefit when activity picks up again. Let's now go to the interest margins. They improved in the first half of 2023. Also, you see that our margin, our 12-month moving average margin went up to 1.25%, and our interest income grew to EUR 116 million Also interesting to see what happens with the flows in savings money. In 2021 and 2022, we saw an increase in savings money on our balance sheet. In the first four months of 2023, part of these savings were invested and therefore converted to assets under management. Secondly, since the second quarter of Q2, the second quarter of this year, Q2, we see a conversion from savings money to term deposits. Going forward, the net interest income will be impacted by developments in savings rates and by the client behavior. As per the end of June, the pass-through rate amounted to approximately 30%. Going to the second half of the year, we expect client savings rates in the market to increase further. Also, we expect the conversion from payments accounts, securities accounts, and savings accounts into term deposits, that that conversion will also continue in the second half of this year. Let's now discuss the other income. This is the part where we saw a decrease from a EUR +22 million to EUR -4 million in the first half of 2023. As you know, other income consists of income from securities and associates and results of financial transactions. Delta can be explained as follows. Firstly, we had lower results on our co-investments on products. Secondly, we have the cost of the medium-term notes. As mentioned, a couple of slides ago, the medium-term notes are part of our funding mix. Because of IFRS requirements, we report the interest expenses on these notes as results on financial transactions. It is important that the interest income generated when we use this funding to provide, for instance, mortgages to clients, that the interest income is accounted for under interest income and not under other income. Then, as a third point, we reported the book profit on a participating interest in the first half of the year, and we did not do it in the first half. We did not have a sale and a book profit in the first half of this year. Slide 18 focuses on our income from securities and associates, so on part of the other income. There you see that we have a portfolio of around EUR 230 million invested in participating interests through VLP, which stands for Van Lanschot Participaties, and through Bolster, and it's also our co-investment portfolio. As you can see, the income is more or less in line with last year. Then let's discuss the expenses. As mentioned, they went up partly because we grow the organization and partly because of inflationary pressure. With respect to the staff costs, we grew our number of FTEs, partly because contractors were recruited in internal staffs and partly because we grew our teams. For instance, the digital and technology teams and also the private, we attracted new private bankers. Salary levels increased, and, as you know, and we had inflationary pressure on other costs and for instance, on rents and, it was also visible in energy prices. With a cost income level of 74.5%, we're not yet at our target of 70%, and to get there, we are increasing the cost discipline in all our activities. Our loan portfolio has been stable over the first six months of the year, and, it is still a portfolio that is that mostly consists of Dutch mortgages with a low average LTV of 66% currently, and an impaired ratio of 1.2%. So it's still the, let's say, it's a stable situation there. Given the good quality of this portfolio, the loan loss provision showed, again, a release so we released 1.9%, in the first half of 2023. We still apply a management overlay, which currently stands at EUR 4.3 million, so an IFRS 9 management overlay, to allow for economic uncertainty that is not yet fully reflected in our IFRS 9 models. Our capital position on page 22. CET1 ratio came in at 21.6%, and we also calculated the fully loaded Basel IV ratio, which would come out at approximately 22%, so that's more or less in line. Because of the closing of Robeco and the capital return of EUR 2 per share, we expect the CET1 ratio to decrease by 2.5 percentage points in the second half of the year. But if you would do that, the math, you would conclude that it is still comfortably above our target level of 15% and the 2.5% buffer for M&A. Then on page 23, we show the progress with respect to our financial targets. As mentioned, the CET1 ratio is comfortably above our target. You also see the efficiency ratio on the bottom left-hand side. You see there's work to be done, as mentioned, to get to the 70% and on the bottom right-hand side, you see that we are more or less in line with the 12% target on return on CET1. With that, I would like to return it to Maarten, to sum it up. Well, thank you, Jeroen. So all in all, I think we can be very satisfied with a continued growth. Our net flows, both in the institutional, but especially the private clients, segment. Truly focused on the integration of Robeco and Mercier Vanderlinden in Belgium, which, as I said, will be a separate reporting segment per next year, as it has really became our second home market, and a continued focus on making sure that we reach our commitment to our 70% cost income ratio. So, thank you, Jeroen, for the explanation. And let's move to Marian, to questions from our audience. Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question from the queue, please press star two to remove yourself. Again, please press star one to ask a question over the phone. Take the first question from Cor Kluis, from ABN AMRO - ODDO BHF. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello, good morning. A couple of questions. First of all, on the commission income, especially in the merchant bank, which was around EUR 70 million in H1. At least as far as I looked at my spreadsheet historically, and that's a long spreadsheet. I've not seen such a low figure in a half year and of course, the markets are so much stressed. But could you elaborate a little bit more on what's exactly the lower commission income reason? Can you comment on sector or on activity, or at least that we get a better grip on what the story is behind that merchant bank commission income pressure? And also related to that is commission income for the wholesale banking business. I saw that in H1, it was EUR 39 million, in H1. H2 last year, it was EUR 40 million. Stock markets are up, I think, this year, so why is the commission income in the wholesale banking, the wholesale business, a little bit lower in absolute terms in H1? And my last question is about interest income. Interest income, good that you explain the connection with the medium term notes. Could you comment a little bit about what we can expect based on the current run rate, like you do also on a commission income basis for commission—for interest income later in the year? Maybe the NII is difficult because you don't know what competitors are gonna do, but more on the MTNs, medium-term notes. I calculate that the average yield that you pay on that in H1 was around 4%, that's EUR 10 million times two, divided by EUR 500 million. Where is that related to? Is that the ECB rate, or how can we calculate what the yield would be in the second half of the year if interest rates not change from now onwards? That's public information. So it should be easy to do. Those were my questions. Thank you very much, Cor, clear questions, and I'll hand over to Jeroen to answer those. Thank you. Yes, Cor, thanks for the questions. Let's first start with the investment bank. You're correct that we haven't looked to the very distant past, but yes, it's a low. And let me explain. There are a couple of things. One is, of course, the markets are weak. Markets for investment banking assets are weak, so that's the starting point. But then if you look at the sectors that we are typically strong in, you would see that it's real estate and it's life sciences. In a situation where interest rates are rapidly increasing, these are typically sectors where the activity levels for an investment bank drop. So we saw low levels of ECM transactions, and also given the fact that the rates were rising, also as Maarten said, the M&A activity was slower. So it's a combination of a market that is slow in itself and our sector focus that's, let's say, did not fit too well with these market situations. Then, to the second one, the wholesale institutional clients' commission income. I think if I look at the figures that it's slightly higher. What we saw is that in the first half, you saw that there was inflow in the segment, but we also had some outflow, especially in the investment strategy part. And the combination of that, the small outflow in the investment strategy part, was against somewhat better margins than the inflow that we saw in the fiduciary part. On balance, it led to a small increase, but it's... But you're correct, it's a small increase there. Then, what to expect on the MTNs? I mentioned it's a bit more than EUR 500 million outstanding. We pay a rate that is linked to six months Euribor with a spread. So, I think with that information, you must be able to also see what is going to happen. Yes, absolutely. Very clear. Thank you very much. We'll now take the next question from Benoît Pétrarque, from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning. So a few questions on my side. Yeah, I wanted to come back on the loss on the investment bank and also the wholesale business. So you mentioned specific actions. So, you know, I noted basically that you plan to reduce FTEs by 20, 20. You know, do you think it is actually enough to restore profitability going forward? And also maybe in terms of what you expect for H2, do you think you can turn both segments back to positive net profits going forward? So that's the first question. The second one is on the NII. So the EUR 116 million in H1 seems to be pretty much of a top level for you. Do you still expect your pass-through rate to be, you know, above the 50%, at some point in the interest rate cycle? You know, you've been getting towards potentially 100%. You know, is that a trend you still expect at this stage? And on the medium-term notes, I wanted to check with you because, you know, the six-month Euribor basically increased further on average toward the end of the quarter in Q2 and will probably be on average higher in H2 versus H1. So can we expect the EUR 10 million to be slightly more negative in H2? And is that correct to think that your guidance of roughly EUR 30 million other income is probably now close to, to EUR 10 million, including the, well, the cost of, of the medium, on the medium-term notes? And then just finally on the cost side, maybe just to, to guide us a bit for the rest of the year, you know, do you think the inflation pressure will, will stabilize going forward from the current levels, or do you still see, well, inflationary pressure? Thank you. Let me take the first question and then pass on to Jeroen. With regard to the profitability of the investment bank and expectations, it really, as Jeroen already said, it really depends on the markets picking up. We see some green shoots there in the second quarter, activity picking up, and then from a relatively low cost base and FTE also in the investment bank, the results should come through. But once again, it's really depending on the market and on the transactions. And also there, as we stated, we are also making sure that we right-size the organization, the investment bank, but to a level that we also can really pick up once the transactions come through. So, once again, depending on the market, but confident that if the market turns and we see some green shoots, that we can improve the profitability fast. With regard to wholesale institutional segment, it's as we said before, during our capital market day, it's more a longer-term program. In the results are some restructuring costs, so that brings close to break-even. But once again, it's more a longer-term. We really want to make sure that we build a franchise, that we invest in a good IT and service to our clients. So it's a bit more of a longer-term turnaround in this business. But with these steps that we are taking and the reduction in staff, which is for this segment, significant, we do believe that we fasten that process. So that's what I can say on the outlook of wholesale and institutional clients. And then, Jeroen, over to you on the pass-through rates of the savings. Yeah. Yeah. As, as we mentioned, Benoît, in, on the slide, is, is that we expect savings rates to increase in the second half. And, of course, no one knows where, where we will exactly end with the ECB rates, but that being said, we, you could say that the pass-through rates, that we also expect them to, to increase. So that's, that, that's something we, we know. The, the other thing is that it's important to, to note that, in the whole discussion that we have with clients, we discuss the, the whole spectrum of possibilities. They come for us, for wealth management advice, and we can offer them everything from, savings account, term deposits to, let's say, fixed income products to, to shares, etc. This discussion will continue. I think you already saw within our client population that we saw a shift from savings money to more fixed income products. We now see the shift towards the term deposits. Again, we think that that shift will also continue. A shift to term deposits will also increase the pass-through rate. Where then there's of course what is going to happen in the market with and what our competitors are doing. That all being said, it's fair to say that the pass-through rate will increase. It will not increase to 100%, certainly not. You say, "Well, could it increase to 50%?" I'm not going to make that forward-looking statement. The only thing I can say is that, yes, it will, that there will be upward pressure on the pass-through rate. Then with respect to the MTNs, the MTN portfolio stands at 500. That's the current position. That's where you should also start your calculations from. I think with the link to Euribor, six months Euribor plus the spread, that's what I can say at this moment. And I think that's what you should take as a basis for your own expectations. Inflation levels, what do we think? Do we expect inflationary pressure? The easy answer is yes. We do expect that, and that's why we have said that focus on cost is always important, but now it's we really push for this cost consciousness and cost control, and that will be a key thing in the coming months. It's very clear. Thank you very much. Just to follow up on the deposit outflows from 12.7 to 11.2, is that fair to assume that a very substantial part of it is actually going into, you know, the fixed income products you referred to? So there's actually no kind of outflows out of the scope of ING Bank. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly the situation. And what we've seen in the corona years, that we added a lot of cash, and basically, clients are now, investing that either in, in investments or in bonds, in our advice, business. So that's, that's what's happening. It stays in the house. Okay, perfect. Thank you very much. As a reminder, to ask a question over the phone, please press star one. We'll take the next question from Henk Slotboom from The IDEA!. Please go ahead. Good morning, Maarten, Jeroen. Thanks for taking my question. It's on Robeco. The deal was closed at the end of the first half year. I assume the consolidation will start as of the first of July. You reiterate the expected integration costs of around EUR 8 million-EUR 11 million. Could you perhaps provide some more clarity as to how that will phase in the results of the years ahead? I assume it will be taken as a non-recurring item, so as a one-off item. Do you plan to take that at once? Do you plan to phase it out over time? Is Robeco activities themselves, so without the integration costs, will it contribute to the profits of Van Lanschot Kempen going forward on an underlying basis? That's my first question. The second question relates to Belgium. You already said, you're going to turn it into a separate reporting unit as of next year. I assume that the integration of Mercier Vanderlinden is fully completed now. Do you feel comfortable enough with the work that's ahead of you with regard to the integration of Robeco to make well, to further grow your business in Belgium inorganically? Those were my questions. Thank you. Yeah, Henk, thank you very much for listening in, and excellent questions. Let me, it's a good division of labor. Let me deal with your Belgium question and hand over to Robeco for Jeroen. Both transactions, of course, are part of our combined strategy of autonomous growth and bold on acquisitions. I think over the last basically 10 years, we have shown that we can do both. Do integrations and continue our autonomous growth. With regard to Belgium, we are actually already very much on track. A lot of the integration work has already been done. For example, the Mercier Vanderlinden clients are fully on the platform of Van Lanschot Kempen by now. What we've also seen this year is that we still have net positive flows into the combined in both Van Lanschot Belgium and Mercier Vanderlinden while working on the integration of about EUR 300 million so far this year in the first half. So also in Belgium, we are able to continue to grow, win market share, while doing the integration on the joint leadership of Thomas Vanderlinden and Erwin Schoeters. And I think that's a real complement to our teams in Belgium, of course, supported by the teams in the Netherlands. So, yeah, we are confident that we can continue to deliver on that, and also confident that we can continue to show autonomous growth in Belgium as well. And, with the legal merger being completed in first of January, and the launch of the brand, Mercier Van Lanschot in Belgium, we can even make a nice next chapter in Belgium. Now, what's also important to note is that Robeco and Evi are on different IT platforms, but also different than the private clients both in the Netherlands and Belgium. So the private clients in the Netherlands and Belgium, including the Mercier Vanderlinden clients, are on one platform, and the mass affluent clients are on two other platforms. And of course, those we will integrate in two years to come, but not into the private client platform. So those are different teams working on different client segments that will not disturb each other. So we can run those integrations simultaneously. Over to you, Jeroen, for the Robeco financial integration questions. Yes. And Henk, you're absolutely right, that Robeco will be in the figures as of the first of July. In the first half P&L, you already see that we took EUR 1.8 million in special items that are connected to the Robeco transaction and that are part of the EUR 8 million-EUR 11 million. Then your question was the spreading of the rest. As we mentioned, we will take up to two years for the integration, and the cost will be taken during this period. And it is extremely hard to give you a full division of what will be when, but the cost will come during the period, and we will take them as they come. Then your question on what about the profitability? I would like to stick with what we already mentioned. We would like our goal is to be breakeven in 2025, and after that to have the Mass Affluent segment as a profit-contributing segment in our part of this business. I shouldn't call it segment, should call it part of this business. So that's what I would like to say about it. Okay. That's very helpful. Thank you very much. Thank you, Henk. [crosstalk] Yeah, we'll take our last question from Jason Kalamboussis from ING. Please go ahead. ... Yes, good morning, all. I have some questions, three questions. The first one is on FTEs. If you can provide the breakdown of the total number of FTEs, so the 1,844, and notably, where did you have the biggest increases? Because this is another 4% increase. I understand the contractors, but I thought this was more of a second half, 2022 story, where again, we had a 4% increase rather than the first half this year. And where do you see that going forward? The other thing also on cost is, on the cost-income ratio, you're really helped by, of course, you know, the large increase of the NII. So if we look at an NII stable versus last year, you still have a 7% increase in your cost-income ratio. I do like and appreciate the fact that you have your total cost base can be lower than what we're expecting, but do you find that, you know, we should be seeing that cost base coming down over at some stage, especially thinking at the first half of next year? The next question is on the discretionary versus non-discretionary mandate percentage. I mean, 47% for the for your private banking segment. Could you give any split between how if that's very different between Netherlands and Belgium? And also, could we have any idea of the fee margins, how these differ between Netherlands and Belgium? And the final question is a more general one. I mean, I can appreciate that you didn't go for the Degroof Petercam. It would have been a merger of equals effectively. It's probably fraught with execution risks. But on the other hand, it could have addressed, you know, some investor's concern that, you know, size, it would have basically given you the right size, if you want, for some investors, or that's their view. So what are your thoughts there? And flipping it over, you know, would you think this acquisition now by Crédit Agricole, given you as challenges or changes in the landscape from which you could benefit? Thank you. Yeah, let me start, and I counted four questions, Jason, if I'm right. But let's start, thank you for those excellent questions. Let me start with the last one. Of course, we also noted the acquisition of the Degroof Petercam by Crédit Agricole. We are very clear that our strategy is to grow autonomously and execute on bold acquisitions. And we are extremely happy with the steps that we have taken in Belgium with Mercier Vanderlinden, which also gives us access more to the Brussels part of Belgium and part of the French-speaking part of Belgium. So focusing on that integration, continuing to grow there, and as you said, I think it also gives us opportunity, because always, if an independent competitor is being taken over by a large high street bank, that causes disruption, and that's something that now that might help with our growth in Belgium. So, that's our view on that transaction. In terms of the breakdown per FTE, we do expect a slowdown of the growth of FTE. If you look at the growth we have seen, that's particularly also a cost management perspective, by the way, because we have mainly also making external people with external payers in Dutch self-employed people converted them to our staff because they're happy to work with us. We have a very high MP engagement, so once they're in, we try to in a difficult labor market also to get them on board in terms of staff. So that's a big chunk of has been of the growth, but we expect that to slow down. And as we also said, we have invested and we are investing in new bankers. We have acquired a team in the north of the Netherlands, in Groningen, to grow our position there. And we have also established a group of young bankers to foster the service we give to clients and to grow there. So those are some of the movements in FTE. And yes, we expect that increase further to slow down as we also focus on efficiencies and the measures we have also taken, as Jeroen explained, in wholesale and institutional clients, and the right sizing of the investment bank to the market conditions. So, that's on your first question. And then for the other two, on cost income, I will give the word to Jeroen. Yeah. I think with respect to the cost-income ratio, it's very important to know that we look at, we have a focus on the margin. So, so if what is the margin with respect to cost and income? So we are looking at both sides of this nice piece. And yes, you are right that if net interest income would come under pressure, that would, of course, decrease the income level. There are a couple of things to be said. We're focusing on margin. We are in a very good position when it comes to commission income. That's what I showed with the annualized recurring income. ... So that's, that's where we stand. Of course, we will be focusing on growing the income, getting back to profitability in the investment bank, further growing the business. At the other side, yes, like Maarten is saying, the focus on cost is important, and, as I also, I think said clearly that, cost focus will become more and more important in the months to come. So we're looking at both cost and income to optimize margin. Then, your questions on Belgium. I would like to thank you for those questions because it proves that going to report Belgium as a separate segment is a good and wise thing to do. But you will have to wait for some months, and then, when it's a separate segment, we will also disclose that sort of information. Okay. That's great, very clear, and I can understand. Thank you both. Sorry, about that, but we will... I'm sorry, Jason, and more about that later. As Jeroen said, I think it's for us underlines the good rationale of having our second home market, Belgium, as a separate reporting segment. So we can give you also more of the details later, but that will be for the first time with the half-year results, 2024. Yeah, but that's very good and very helpful as a step. Thank you for that. Thank you, Jason. As there are no further questions, that will conclude the question and answer session, and I would like to hand the call back over to Mr. Maarten Edixhoven for any closing remarks. Yeah. Thank you, Maarten, and that will be pretty short. Thank you for the active dialogue and the excellent questions. Looking forward to further either one-on-one discussions or with the full year results. So, thank you for listening in, and have a very nice day on behalf of the team here at the—myself and Jeroen and the others at Van Lanschot Kempen. Thank you. That will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect.