Bergman & Beving Q4 2024 Report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the Q&A Bergman & Beving Q4 2024 Report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the Q&A Bergman & Beving Q4 2024 Report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the Q&A session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad. If you are listening to the presentation via webcast, you can ask written questions using the form below. Now, I will hand the conference over to Speakers CEO Magnus Söderlind and CFO Peter Schön. Please go ahead. Good morning, everyone. This is Magnus Söderlind, and on my side here I have Peter Schön. Welcome to our financial report for the last fiscal quarter up until March 2025. We will have, as normal, a Q&A in the end, and it's also possible for you to post questions along the way that we will then answer when we have ended this session. Just starting with some highlights from the first quarter, we have experienced still a sluggish market. I have previously said that the best KPI from an aggregated group level is number of employees in the construction and industrial sector in the Nordics. New figures indicate that there has been a 2% decrease in the Nordics. This is a mixture from Q1 calendar figures in Sweden and Finland and Q4 figures for Norway. Overall, this is very representative for how we perceive the underlying market during the last quarter. Despite that, we have increased earnings and profitability and also the earnings per share. We increased the turnover by 8%. The majority of this is acquisition-driven turnover. We also increased the EBITDA with the same figure, 8%. We were able to maintain the EBITDA margin, 9.5% compared with 9.6% last year quarter. We have now seen the effect of lower interest rates. The EBIT adjusted has increased 23%. When I say adjusted, we have adjusted for the goodwill write-on we have made this quarter. I will come back to that later on. It is related to the agreement of selling Skydda Nordic. We have continued to work on capital efficiency. We have now increased the profitability of working capital, our measurement, by 5% units in this quarter and this year. This is rolling 12 figures. As I said earlier, the earnings per share, and this is also adjusted for the goodwill write-on, has improved to SEK 8.05 compared with SEK 7.15. The board has then also proposed an increase in dividend that we have communicated in the report this morning. Last but not least, we have made an agreement of selling Skydda, the Nordic part of Skydda, to Ahlsell. I will come back to that specifically later on in this presentation. I have said earlier that diamonds are formed under pressure. Based on the underlying market development, we still have challenges in the market. Really, we continue to do company- by- company according to a capital allocation model that is named Focus Model, where we adapt the agendas based on their profitability as well as their earning growth potential. It is really having different agendas for different companies. Some of our companies have actually a good underlying market and good growth possibilities. It is not about having one recipe for all companies. In some companies, we invest for growth, but in some companies, we need to improve efficiency. It is really not a standard recipe across all 35 companies. We did not make any acquisitions in Q4. I would say, as communicated earlier, we are very cautious in making high-quality company acquisitions. In the Q4, we did not succeed in meeting those kinds of criteria. On the year in total, we delivered on our acquisition target, i.e., to acquire SEK 50 million-SEK 80 million in earnings per annum. As also communicated, we made two acquisitions in April, the Q1 quarter this year. I do not see, and you should not expect, any changes in the acquisition tempo we will have going forward. We will still commit to the acquisition target that we have communicated. I mentioned it. We made six acquisitions last fiscal year. I will not go through them in detail, but it is a combined earning of SEK 385 million. As communicated earlier, we focus on acquiring companies with a profit margin of about 15% and a profitability well above 45%. That is kind of the group target as such. If you apply the 15% profit margin on the SEK 385 million in turnover, you will then mathematically understand that we have reached the acquisition target interval that we have communicated for the fiscal year. If we look at the trend, we now have 21 consecutive quarters with increased EBITDA. Last quarter, we increased 8%, as communicated earlier. We have a carry now of 26% over the time period. We have a positive trend. The aim is, of course, to continue that trend despite we foresee a continued sluggish market going forward, at least in the next coming quarters. If we look at the gross margin, as communicated earlier, and as you can see on the graph, we have improved the gross margin significantly, close to 7%-8% units during the last three years. We have communicated that this is mainly due to we have phased out low-margin, high-volume products. We have also communicated some quarters ago that we have more or less finalized that kind of effort. You should not expect any kind of increase, at least significant increase, in the gross margin going forward. What you can observe is that we have a little bit lower gross margin in the last quarter, but underlying, we are kind of on the historical levels. We have had some new customer onboarding during the quarters that had driven one of negative gross margin effects. I will come back to that later on under the Core Solutions division to explain more about that. We continue to focus on growing the own product. As you can see on the graph now, we are close to the target of 75% set for this fiscal year. We are at 74% now. I can't see any reason why we shouldn't reach the 75% during this fiscal year as communicated as a target. With that said, we have set some targets related to the profit of working capital, EBIT in absolute terms, and the EBITDA margin. We have said we should reach 45% in profit of working capital later this next fiscal year, ending March 2027. We are now at 31%, and we had a 5% improvement in percent unit during this quarter. As you can see, that is kind of the tempo we had last fiscal year as well. We now see the effects of the efficiency activities we have taken during the last two years. I expect, and we can also see that rolling free, that we will continue on this improvement path. I expect that also to accelerate during the next coming quarters and years. I think still the 45% is reachable as such. We have set the target of reaching SEK 500 million. We ended at SEK 399 million during this fiscal year, ending in March. We have now went into agreement to sell Skydda. That is an underlying EBIT level of SEK 45 million. That will, of course, affect the target of EBIT of the SEK 500 million, but we will come back to that later on. The EBIT margin is 10%. We are now a little bit behind that, and it will be challenging to meet that, being in the tough market underlying conditions. Still, we were working ahead of that. I do not see any reason why the group should not be able; the potential is there and should be able to reach 10%. For me, it's more like a timing issue now. With that, I will hand over to Peter talking about earnings per share. Thank you, Magnus. It's a nice topic, so I'll be glad to cover that. As you can see on the graph, the EPS has continued to increase. It's all-time high this quarter, of course, excluding the goodwill costs. It has, of course, the underlying EBIT result as the main factor for increasing EPS, but it is also boosted, of course, with the lower financial net. We have both effects, and we have an increased EPS both in the quarter and rolling 12. If we look at the inventory level and look at the quarter, we had an inventory of SEK 1,157, and it's lower towards last year. Organically, we have reduced the inventory by SEK 80 million since last year. You can see also it's lower than in Q3. There is a seasonality effect where ESSVE is delivering a lot of spring orders to their customers. If you look on the history, it's normally a bit lower in the fourth quarter. I'll come back to the cash flow effect regarding that. Even though we have improved or reduced the inventory, we still are not on the ITO levels that we used to have, even though it's beginning to get closer. We'll need to continue to reduce the inventory, but it will be at a slower pace. As you can see, it has been slower also this year compared to last year. It's a gradual effect going forward. If we look at the cash flow, it's lower this quarter by quite a lot compared to last quarter, but it's mainly due to the normal seasonality effect. If you go back a bit to 2021 and 2021,2022, you can see that the fourth quarter is a really weak cash flow. That is the normal seasonality effect. Of course, the improved profitability makes it a positive cash flow, but still weaker. If you look at the last two years, we had quite strong cash flow, but then we had larger inventory reductions during these periods. The main reason for the lower cash flow is that ESSVE is invoicing their spring orders. It, of course, decreases the inventory a bit. It becomes accounts receivables, and they pay their accounts payables to the suppliers. The cash will come into the company in June,July for those orders. That is the main reason for the seasonality effect. Even now we had some start orders for ESSVE also increasing a bit on the lower side. As I said on the previous slide, it will be and has been a bit lower pace in inventory reduction. Yeah. If we continue to net debt, we do have an increased net debt. It is SEK 1,278 compared to SEK 1,057 last year. It is roughly SEK 200 million. We have made acquisitions of SEK 402 million during the year. A lot has come from our own cash flow. Now it is a net activity of 2.3. It is a bit higher than last year, but still very comfortable. There is nothing in our debt situation that hinders us to make acquisitions. We will continue to do that in the pace that we have communicated. We do have a very strong pipeline, so we do not see any issues on that side going forward. Thank you, Peter. I will now go into the three divisions specifically. Core Solutions is still facing a slow underlying market. The majority of those companies is addressing the construction sector, specifically not to a great extent new build of housing, but still it's partly reflecting the overall construction industry in the Nordics. That has been a tough market during the last years, I would say. ESSVE, who is the biggest company in this division, has made three new large customer agreements. When making those agreements, you need to make a take-back setup where you actually take back the current supplier and replace them with ESSVE in their retail stores. This is something that then those take-backs is very difficult to get a decent margin when you try to resell them to other companies. That is the main reason why the gross margin on the group level, as shown earlier, has been a little bit lower. If we would take back, if we would kind of not count those take-back effects, the gross margin will be on a previous level on a group level. As earlier communicated, we have not made any acquisitions in the Q4 quarter, but already on April 16, Core Solutions made an acquisition in England, Raintight. They are actually making specific products that you use when you build or repair big commercial buildings or installations to kind of guide out waters from specific building areas as such. A very niche company addressing a very niche market. This is a very profitable company as such, and great growth opportunities going forward. That is a really good acquisition. As you can see, this division increased the revenue by 30% and increased the EBITDA by 11%. The EBITDA margin is a little bit lower. If we look at the revenue and the EBITDA increase, it is mainly due to acquisitions then. Then ESSVE had some startup orders that were delivered to replace those take-back volumes. That has affected the revenue as well, but has then also affected the EBITDA margin that actually is a little bit lower in this quarter. Once again, this is a one-off effect that we expect to be back on a previous level in the next quarter. If we then look into Safety Technology, the main event here during the quarter was the agreement that was signed on March 23 to divest Skydda, the Nordic companies of Skydda, that is Sweden, Finland, and Norway, to Ahlsell. This is a venue with a turnover of SEK 550 million with an underlying EBITDA of SEK 45 million. The reason for us to sell that is that Skydda is a niche wholesaler within personal protective equipment, but mainly they have been addressing independent resellers because typically the big reseller has that knowledge in-house. If you know about the Nordic reseller market, it has been partly consolidated over time. We think that Ahlsell, that we already have a lot of business relationships through our product companies as well, is a very good match for the Skydda people, employees, and the customers, and also for the Bergman & Beving Group because we see some good growth opportunities for our PPE product companies after this deal has been settled. This is still subject to approval from competitive authorities in all the countries, but we expect that to be cleared in June, July. The EV we got for this agreement is SEK 300 million and a possible earnout of maximum SEK 80 million. This is something, and we have communicated that, that the capital loss is SEK 270 million, which is goodwill related then. I do not know if you would like to comment that specifically, Peter, in any way. No, I don't think so. I think that's the loss we've taken on the goodwill this quarter. Yeah, it could vary, of course, to minus SEK 270 million, but around that. It should be a not-so-negative effect when the deal comes through. Of course, we do have the restructuring cost of SEK 70 million, like we communicated earlier. It will be an effect. Skydda also has a company called Skydda International that is selling PPE products outside the Nordic, and that is mainly our own PPE products. That will remain within the group because that is an important channel for our product companies reaching other countries outside the Nordic. That company has a turnover of roughly SEK 175 million. That will remain in the group. As Peter was saying, after forming this type of new setup, we will have some restructuring costs that are estimated to SEK 70 million. Also, Safety Technology made an acquisition in April, already, Ontec. It is a Finnish company making systems for controlling hazard liquids. It is about measuring and making sure that the viscosity and the temperature is in line with what is necessary to prohibit accidents or any failure. This is a very niche company with very, very good margins. This is mainly a software company enhanced by some physical equipment like sensors and so forth. This is a company with a strong position in the Finnish market, selling to a lot of chemical-related companies, but also selling outside Finland. Here we see some growth opportunities going forward, specifically outside the Finnish region as such. Also, this division has a revenue increase of 7%, but the EBITDA increase is 48%. We had some extra costs during the last Q4 quarter doing some changes within this division. That is one explanation, but also that we have better performance generally across the group as such has helped us to improve the EBITDA, mainly due to lower costs, but also related to improved gross margin. We have here an EBITDA margin increase, and it is now 7.7%. It has increased by 2% units, even more than that. This is the division where we have communicated this should be at 10%. We are surely a bit steadily getting to that 10% EBITDA margin this quarter. Lastly, the Industrial Equipment division. Here we are facing mainly the construction industrial market in the Nordics, and we saw a weaker demand during this quarter, especially in our wholesaler Luna, but also in Teng Tools and the Finnish company Polartherm that is selling mobile heating equipment a lot to rental companies. Of course, if the rental companies have a low demand, they typically do not buy new equipment. This is an effect that is reflecting the underlying market weaknesses. When the market takes off, they will need to order new equipment, and that will then have a positive effect on Polartherm. Here, the revenue was actually decreased to SEK 470 million, and also the EBITDA was down to SEK 45 million compared with SEK 51 million. As said earlier, lower sales and lower gross margin, but partly offset by lower operational expenses, but was not able to kind of compensate for the sales and gross margin decrease during this quarter. The EBITDA margin is still above 10%, is 10.8%, but it's a little bit down compared with the previous year of 11.1%. I would say we need to see some improvement here in the underlying market for this division to kind of step up and continue to deliver a growth in EBITDA and margin as such. What is the way then to our target? SEK 500 million in EBIT, 10% in EBIT margin, and 45% in profitable working capital. Yeah, as indicated earlier, we need to see some market recovery. Now, when we look at the market as such, I think we shouldn't expect any kind of recovery until early second half of this financial year. As you know, there has been a lot of increased uncertainty in the market based on what is related to restrictions in trade and so forth across the world. We have a very limited exposure to the U.S. Of course, if this affects the total economy as such, we will also be affected in an indirect way of a slower market recovery as such. We will continue to do what we always do. It's focusing on profit expansion over revenue growth. We continue to work with our capital allocation model that makes sure we have a tailored approach to each individual company based on their situation. We will continue to support our companies with our Bergman & Beving toolbox to help them to develop depending on what type of development projects they have. We will continue to acquire in line with the acquisition target we had set and focusing on leading B2B technology company in growing niches. We also have some specific themes. Peter showed earlier the ITO, the inventory turnover that has improved, but we still are not back to the pre-Corona level. That is still a focus. That will also, of course, release some cash flow over time if we improve. We have some improvement, but it will be a little bit slower. We have taken the low-hanging fruit now. We really need to kind of work diligently on getting improvements step- by- step in many companies. That is a work that will continue to have a focus going forward. Based on the underlying city market, we still have a tight cost control. We still make some efficiency programs in some of the companies. We also still try to ensure we're able to capitalize on an improved economic situation in the future. It is a balance now to make sure that we did not prohibit the companies to leverage a future bounce back in the market as such. As early communicated, I think you should not expect an increase in the gross margin, but we are really focused on making sure that we protect the margin going forward. Some companies have made price increases during this Q4 quarter. Some will make during this quarter to kind of adjust for cost increases. They are on a much lower level than they were some years ago, but still, we need to make sure that we adjust according to the changed environment. We will also work on the supply side to improve the agreements and make sure we have good pricing conditions in the supply chain as such. With that said, I think we are ready for this presentation and open up for some questions. If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Albin Nordmark from Nordea. Please go ahead. Hello, Magnus and Peter. Albin from Nordea here. Basically, just two questions from my side. Firstly, employees, construction and industry in Nordics, we're down 2%, as you showed there, while you have flat organic sales growth. Of course, the difference is not really material, but would you say that this is spillover from Q4 alone, or do you still see yourself grabbing market share in some companies? In some companies, we definitely grab market share. I mentioned SV. They have made three new Nordic agreements with some reseller customers. They are gaining market share. I will say we have several more good examples on that situation. We have Cresto, for example, that has been a supplier to Vestas worldwide on safety equipment. They are now starting to deliver to Siemens Gamesa as well. We have a lot of companies that are gaining market share as such, but we do not see that in the top line figure because the underlying market as such has outset those types of agreements. SV, for example, you will see that effect on the new customers in the quarters to come. You have not seen those yet in the figures. Cresto, for example, Gamesa, there has been a test order delivered to Siemens, and over time, I expect that volume to increase. We have a lot of companies gaining market share, but they tend to be in a build-up phase, and you have not seen the effect on the total as it is partly offset on the weaker underlying market. All right, that's clear. For working capital, you tied up some capital here, which you have not been doing the last year, really. I think every Q4, at least between 2017-2018 to fiscal 2021-2022, you did that. Would you say that this is back to normal seasonal patterns or anything else that we should take into account? No, I think it's a normal seasonal pattern, I would say. All right, thanks. Then one last one, just on SVM, maybe you mentioned this, Mister Schön, but the retaking of products, do you expect this to continue in the quarters ahead, or was it only for Q4? The absolute majority was taken in Q4. We have some to be done during April, actually this month, but the majority of that effect you saw in Q4. There are some millions to be taken back in this quarter as well. Perfect. That's all for me. Thanks. Thank you. The next question comes from Zeno Engdahl from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning, and thanks for taking our questions. Just a follow-up on the SV volumes. It was very clear on the gross margin side, but could you maybe quantify it on the revenue side from how much that was in this quarter? It works like this. When you get into those types of new agreements with the new customers, you have to clear what's left in the reseller shelf. When you take back those, you have a start order that you deliver to fill those shelves out with SV products instead. That has had some effects on the SV revenue as such. It's not a very, very big number, but it had some positive effect on SV during the last quarter, yes. All right. A question on safety solutions. We talked about this before, I think, but customers have now started to fill up their inventories, and that might have had a positive effect, even though underlying demand is relatively stable. Would you say that the effect has been taken out in this quarter, or do you still see that they are undersupplied for the quarter ahead? No, I think we now see the actual demand, I would say, in Safety Technology. Before, they reduced inventory, but I think now they can't do that much anymore. Now we're more of an image of the underlying demand going forward. Yeah, it could have been some spillover effect from last quarter, but that's marginal, I think. Okay, very clear. Just a question on acquisitions. You wrote in the report that you've taken steps to support faster acquisition pace. Can you talk a bit about what you've done there? Yeah. We have strengthened the divisions with some resources to enable the divisions to work broader and more active on the acquisition space. We actually added some resources within the divisions to enhance the acquisition work. We are building for stepping up the acquisition pace in the coming years. Very clear. Just on the M&A related to the investment of Skydda, do you feel that you have, let's say, equity candidates which you can relatively quickly bridge the gap? Or do you say, would your acquisition pace be relatively unchanged if you would not have made the investments, let's say? I wish I had the answer on that question. I mean, we did not acquire any companies in Q4. The reason for that was not that there was no company for sale. The reason was that we chose not to make an acquisition because we did not think they were fitting our acquisition criteria and the valuation range we have set. It is very difficult to kind of make a forecast on what we will be able to acquire in the next coming quarter and when we will acquire. We still have the aim to acquire within the SEK 50 million-SEK 80 million range in earnings per annum. Yes, now we have the capacity. If we close this deal, we will get in SEK 300 million and hopefully some earnout, and that will strengthen our cash position to make acquisitions. With that said, it's not guaranteed that we will be able to close those deals matching those SEK 300 million extra. That could be an ambition, but we will not hamper on the quality of the companies and will not hamper on the valuation intervals that we are willing to pay for. Hopefully, we will be able to increase the acquisition pace, but that is not something we are certain of as of today. Of course, the increase in resources will make that more probable, but still, like Magnus said, it's very hard to say what will happen on that side. It's an upside. That's very nice. Just a last question for me, the SEK 70 million restructuring charge. Can you give any color on the phasing of that? Is it all coming in this quarter, or will it be when the improvements have come in? I think the quality accounting effect, you can say, I think that will happen in our Q1 mainly. I think then we will have to, even though we have not made the deal, we will, I think, set the assets under sale and things like that due to regulations. Also, I think the SEK 70 million will come there too. When it comes to the SEK 70 million, part of that is, of course, some coverage for empty space in our logistics facility. Else it's some redundancy costs and some other IT-related costs and things like that. Yeah. Yeah, very clear. Thanks. We'll get back in line. The next question comes from Ryan Sullivan from Tredje AP-fonden. Please go ahead. Firstly, you are selling off 10% of your operating profit at a multiple of seven, while you yourselves are valued at 25 times. That simply does not make sense unless you need the money due to excessive leverage. Is this because you are worried about the gross margin? For the past three years, you have operated in an environment of inflation and currency tailwinds that have boosted your margins. Naturally, your gross margin increases when you have been selling inventory purchased at lower prices. To the question, what do you regard as a normal gross margin going forward in a more stable inflationary environment? 44%? Thank you. No, I think it's very hard to say what a normal gross margin is for us. Since we're doing acquisitions, it's very hard to say what it will be going forward. Even though we do highly profitable acquisitions, their gross margin could be even lower than the group average or a lot higher. It's very hard to mention a number. What we're saying is that you should expect it to be fairly stable going forward. That's our best estimate. Question comes from Emanuel Jansen from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Yeah, good morning, Magnus and Peter. Maybe a little bit somewhat on the same subject and maybe already answered that, Magnus, but if you were to maybe elaborate or envision a scenario regarding the sale of Skydda Nordic, what do you see as the primary impact on Bergman & Beving's potential moving forward due to itself? As communicated, I think Ahlsell will be a better owner to the Skydda Nordic operation than we are. They will be able to kind of leverage the manpower and the presence of Ahlsell across the Nordic region. Since Skydda is an important reseller wholesaler for our product companies within the PPE segment, that will most likely increase the presence of our product companies within the Ahlsell sphere as such. As said earlier, I expect that to have a very positive effect on our product companies when Skydda is a part of Ahlsell, but to quantify that is very, very difficult. I think you will not see any immediate effect of that. That will be something that will grow over time. One important change that we expect to see quite early is that our product companies across the whole group will be represented at the Ahlsell central warehouses in their different countries. That will make it a much more present alternative for the whole Ahlsell group. If you are not in their central warehouse assortment, it is a big hinder for product companies to have a presence within the Ahlsell group as such. Once again, we expect to see positive effects. They will not be immediate. They will kind of materialize over time. Also, to quantify that is way too early and very difficult to estimate. I do not know if that. Will not affect. Yeah, yeah, that was very clear, I think. You do not expect this to change your mind on the way of doing acquisitions since, yeah, due to this. You will maintain on the same M&A pattern going forward. Yeah, I mean, we had set the target to acquire SEK 50 million-SEK 80 million per annum. That interval will, of course, change upwards over time when we grow. I will not exclude when we're at SEK 500 million in EBIT that we will revise those targets and revise them upwards. Yeah, got it. Could this, now you already have a collaboration or relationship with Ahlsell, of course, but if your own product brands are entering maybe Ahlsell to a greater extent now, could that also mean that you maybe will have this start orders effect and take back costs, etc., going forward in the near term? If we look at our PPE assortment, that assortment is a little bit different than SV. If you go into a reselling store selling fastening products, you will see a big shelf with a lot of fastening products. Within the PPE segment, that is a much smaller assortment and so forth. You will not have that take back effect in the PPE segment. I would say it is only within SV and the fastening segment we have those take back situations. That is not something that is relevant for all our other product companies. Yeah, okay, got it. Maybe a last question from my side. I did not entirely catch what I think it was Albin at Nordea that asked the question, but on Essve and the start orders, should we expect some orders to also occur in the near term? Is this the main explanation why you displayed a flat organic sales growth in the quarter? Should we expect this to continue to more stabilize around zero? Should we expect it to return to negative organic growth again in the near term? How should we view it? Yeah, we had some positive. Given that the market is weak. Yeah, yeah. We had some positive effect of ESSVE during the last quarter due to these replacement orders. That is partly a reason why we had zero organic growth. Once again, the underlying market is minus two. I cannot promise that we will deliver an organic growth this quarter or even a zero. Yeah, totally understand. Yeah. Yeah, totally understand that. Yeah. I think that was all of my questions for now. Thank you very much, Magnus and Peter. Thank you. There are no more questions at this time. I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments. Yeah, thank you. We received some questions, and I think two of them we might have answered already regarding the take back and so on. We do have one, whether we see any challenges or uncertainties regarding the tariffs on specific portfolio companies. No, we communicated in the report that we only have 2% of our revenue in the U.S. So we have a very, very limited exposure there. Some of that volume is going to the defense industry or defense of the U.S. And to my understanding, it's still unclear if those orders will be affected by the tariffs as such. It's still a little bit uncertain. Once again, it's a very limited volume. It's about SEK 100 million per annum, roughly, that is going to North America. Some of that is actually also produced or delivered from the U.S. It's even a smaller figure that is actually imported in the U.S. from our companies. I see for us, it's a very limited kind of issue that will not affect the group as such. Directly, at least. Not directly. Yeah, once again, we don't know the effect on the underlying market in Europe. If we look at the tariffs and the volumes going to North America, that will not have an effect on the group level as such. Good, thank you. I think that was it for today. Thank you very much for listening. I am looking forward to talk to you next quarter. Thank you.