There we have him, Louis Armstrong, What a Wonderful World. I thought I'd say good morning, and welcome to this webcast together with Crunchfish in connection with the company's report for Q4 2022. I'm here joined by the company's CEO, Joachim Samuelsson, to discuss the report and the company's current situation. Good morning, Joakim. How are you today? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm very much looking forward to this. Good to hear. My name is Joen Sundmark. I'm an analyst at Västra Hamnen Corporate Finance, and I will be your moderator for today. As usual, I highly encourage you to send in your questions using the chat function as we go along. I will present the questions to Joakim for him to answer. I also want to inform you this webcast is being recorded and that the recording later can be accessed on the Crunchfish homepage, as well as Västra Hamnen Corporate Finance YouTube channel. Without further ado, thank you once again, Joakim for being here. It's always great to hear about news and what's going on at Crunchfish. I thought we'd start by following up from your Q3 report, actually. I remember the title was Big Deals Are Coming. What can you tell us about the progress in these deals so far? Yeah. I think indeed they are coming. That hasn't changed. I think just after the report we did in the Q3, we announced that we will have an external party. This is a telecom partnership, actually investing, buying 3 million shares at market from Crunchfish. Right now, where we're currently trading around SEK 30, that would mean SEK 90 million. That's certainly, I think a big deal. That is still to be consummated. I spoke to the people yesterday, and where they are, and that is, it's progressing. They're still waiting for their funding to come, but it's looking good. They're doing great things in sort of in Africa and we are in a way, just a tiny part of it. I think they are looking at actually raising $600 million. Wow ... the piece they're gonna put in Crunchfish is, from their perspective, very small, but still it's significant for us, because it will secure funding for the company really. That was good. We also announced just after the report that we didn't have that in the report. It was the Central Bank of Nigeria. This is the country in the world that has come the furthest with CBDC, and that made a lot of news actually, that we were that one is sort of doing a sort of a pilot with us as well. We are all ready with that, with them. They've asked, and we have done a couple of rounds of proposals to them. I think we are into the third round of proposals really to them because they want it this way or that way, and then we have follow up. There are things on the table right now for them. Likewise, the same thing is sort of happening for our major project that has been progressing really well during Q4. It is the big project with HDFC and with IDFC, which is now announced. IDFC is, if HDFC is the leading bank of India, IDFC is probably one of the most technical banks. They tend always to choose them to have them part of in any sort of trials or pilots because they're very technically competent, that bank. It's followed by the Central Bank of India. The Reserve Bank of India is sort of tracking this in the regulatory sandbox. Likewise there, we have provided proposals to HDFC. We're traveling there week of 9, week of week 9, sort of the week of the February 27th. We're gonna meet them. We're gonna meet the IDFC as well. I don't know if it made really news that a big bank like HDFC. We have to put it in perspective. They are, you know, part of the top 10 banks in the world. This is, you know, their market cap is more than all Swedish banks together. So it's really big. This is big stuff. They made a great announcement, put out a press release, and that's been published all over India right now. I think HDFC, without actually having, you know, finalized the negotiation with us, we won't take advantage of that. They have now committed, not only to RBI, but they've committed to their sort of their customers, their shareholders, their market, that they are doing what they call offline pay, which is sort of our technology. This is our Digital Cash offline. Yeah, big deals are certainly coming, and we have a sort of great yeah, we have a great offer for them. It is significant, I think what we're having here, as I think I revealed that in Gothenburg. The deals we are talking about here are just one deal alone is probably more than our entire cost base for the company per annum. I think we will sign up annual deals that they will have an annual license fee for us. Huge deals. If we take one, there are tens of thousands more deals to do. If you can imagine if we cover our cost with our first deal, this is just an extreme profitability that this company sort of could have here. We've done other things as well. We signed up two platforms, payment platforms, one which has about 100 banks in India, another one who has 160. That's been announced with a name as well, Wibmo. really one of the leading players in the world with. That's gonna be also quite interesting. there's so much going on, and I'm actually very pleased with. I think Q4 has been fantastic for us really. Big deals are still coming. I would have wished that we have had because we had these sort of offers to Central Bank of Nigeria. We had it with HDFC Bank. it's been on their table since sort of November, December. They have chosen not to really yet engage and sign deals. We're taking a step forward. With HDFC, we are in agreement that we're gonna work on our sort of our sort of template when it comes to our legal SLA, subscriber sort of their service license agreement. We just have to set the commercials. It will come. I'm no doubt that it will come. Yeah, big deals are certainly coming. I think it was a good theme for Q3, yeah, it still holds true even if, yeah, we haven't yet signed anyone, you know, it's coming. It's coming. Speaking about both HDFC, IDFC, and general, the market activity in India, what do you think in regards of financial structure of a potential upcoming deal, regarding the market rollout? The financial structure is that we would have an annual license fee that they have the right to use our software, and we will include support, we will include maintenance, things like that. Also, a number of users, of payers. They are an issuer and they would issue it to their markets. This would be part of some sort of annual fee. That annual fee could increase with the volume. How many sort of subscriber it is. I think for Digital Cash offline, it is very much how the banks charge for credit cards, sort of. It is per user, per annum. That I think is what's gonna happen here. What we've found in the market is that this is same for Central Bank of Nigeria as well as for HDFC. They're not looking at monetizing it with their customers. They're not asking the customers to pay for it. They want it for all. Everybody should have it, which I believe is good for us because we're gonna get a lot of volume that way. You know, both of these, the eNaira in Nigeria as well as HDFC for their PayZapp application that, you know, they have + 20 million you know. Nigeria are shooting for something at least 20 million above and the same is they already have that for PayZapp in India. The amount we will get per user will be smaller. I know in your report, Johan, you had 50 SEK per user. We won't get that. You just look at it. If we're looking at 20 million users times 50, that would be 1 billion SEK per annum. We won't get that. It will be smaller, but still it will be very sizable. And again, our cost base is about 3 million SEK or 30 million SEK, 35 million SEK maybe. It will probably be above that per annum for one deal, one customer. That's quite exciting actually that we're having it sort of here. Yeah, I look forward to our discussions. For sure it is a product that is in high regard. I think there has been a lot of press. When HDFC put it out, it's been echoed all over India. So much press around it really, and it's good. Yeah. Great to hear. Do you believe that the deal structure will look the same in India compared to other markets such as Africa? It's I think that's when it comes to our. If we have that trusted environment on the front end device, it will be that we pay for, you pay for the service that you can. You don't have to care if you're online or offline. You pay for that and then you can eat as much as you want. When it comes to Digital Cash online, which is it's that way, you don't necessarily need to have a secure environment on your phone. You just have reserved money so you can take out the remitting bank, the paying bank out of the equation. There we can... I could see that we could have a transactional based fee there, possibly. When it comes to that we have that secure environment on the front end device, then it's a subscriber base. I think that will be our dominant sort of, yeah, model. All right. Obviously, a lot has been happening since you closed the fiscal year 2022. If we go back to Q4 and 2022 in general, what are your main takeaways from that year and Q4, in your opinion? Yeah. Well, big deals are coming was sort of, that was the theme for that we put in November here. Also I had in Q3, if I remember, it was time to deliver. Certainly we have. I think before we went live in December with these pilots for HDFC together with RBI with real money, they did pen testing, penetration testing with our product. It passed that, which I know is a very important step. We've actually done pen testing ourselves since then also with an independent firm, they also confirmed that it is indeed, they haven't been able to break it, even if they spent a really, you know... They really tried to break it for a week, and just going at it and they couldn't, which is a good testimony to the strength of the security of our product. I think we definitely delivered, and we have the signs from the markets that big deals are coming. Also, on the gesture side, I think they've done a fantastic job of taking the platform XR Skeleton and then it's coming out in so many versions in the market with single camera or dual camera or two hands, one hand. It's amazing what a small team could do. You have to realize we are only six developers on the gesture side, and we're only six developers on the Digital Cash side. This little company, we're about 20 in total, the whole company. I think we're doing amazing stuff with very, very few resources really. I think we certainly have delivered, and we're seeing sort of big deals are coming. It's, we start the year. I think the start of this year has been great as well. I think it's all, it's really all coming together for us. It's cool. Regarding RBI, the sandbox and the HDFC product, in the report you mentioned that customers and merchants are being onboarded currently. What can you tell us about the feedback you received so far from this project? There's a lot of pride in this project that this is actually a something which really is new in the market. I'm reading both sort of comments in the press in India and on LinkedIn. I spent a little bit of time this morning to respond to Ram Rastogi had put out a post on this. There were questions about this. One other question was this, that, "Well, I can see this is for airlines, because you obviously are offline there. It would be great to have it there. What I'm trying to explain is it's much bigger than that because it's not about only a niche use case like on an airline where you simply cannot be online. What offline really is all about, and that is what I, we will really try to get across, is that offline is the necessary robustness for a public good, like a payment service, to actually be robust. Right now, how it's designed, and that goes for Swish in Sweden, it goes for UPI in India, it goes for any payment service or all over the world. They are simply not as stable as they should be. They are prone to failure. If anything fails, they go down, and that's not good enough. I think what we really are all about is to provide the underlying robustness for payments. That's why we are so critical for any payment service. I think that if we had electricity service, if you have an electricity company that would have delivered as unstable service as payments are today, the energy sort of authorities would close them down. They would say, "It's not allowed. You know, we can't have you having customers in our country where their refrigerator, all the food in refrigerator goes bad, because, you know, you don't, you're not delivering." You know, this could happen at any time that the service is not there. That's how we have it with payments. How can we allow that? That's why I think there is a need for a really a shift. I talk about that, a paradigm shift in payments because an offline scheme can work instantly online if all the pipes are open. You know, we, you can just rush the payment through, no problem. The reverse is not true. The online scheme of today, they just fail. The basis for any payment scheme is obviously offline. The offline is the norm. What happens in the back end when you move money between the accounts, yeah, that's, in my opinion, is the pipe, which is just connecting sort of two accounts. It needs to be based. If you're ever gonna get it robust, you need to base it on offline. I think that realization will come in the market. It's we can do it for commercial payment systems like Swish in Sweden, we can do it for UPI in India, which is just huge. We can also do it for CBDC, which is coming strong in many markets. I think that is gonna happen. For this very project here, RBI, initially in their regulatory sandbox, because they basically set requirements for the pilots in their regulatory sandbox. They said, "Let's have 1,000 users." That was their requirement. They sort of said very quickly that, "Well, scale it up. We want much more. We're talking sort of much more than 10,000 users. Both now banks are really working hard to get that. What they decided to do earlier was to not put it initially on their production payment service. Because if they had done that, they could have easily just added. You know, 10,000 users because they have, you know, maybe, you know, 10 million or 20 million users. This has been done on an app environment developed by M2P that HDFC chose to be the back-end choice. They've developed this front-end app. They need to onboard new users, but they're really working quite hard with that. I saw the latest figures that they are way above 1,000 now. The pressure is on from RBI to do it because I think they understand that this is actually a breakthrough. Yeah, people are proud in India that this could be a really important innovation for the payment ecosystem. That's what we want to get to, not just having it for HDFC and IDFC, but as an ecosystem innovation. You can just imagine how big this is. Each bank would have their whole home banking. That would be every bank would have that with their customers. You have big payment services like there is PhonePe, there is Paytm, there is Amazon Pay, there is Google Pay. They have hundreds of millions of users. They can't I don't think they can stay out. They need to be there as well. We have one which we work with for a long time, and they're still very committed to us. One of those wallets here that is gonna take this. When they take it, again, it will just put more pressure on the other payment service to do it as well. This product is extremely important. It is the sort of the main bank of India doing it, and it is in the market, which is by far the biggest in the world. I like the fact that in 2022, they did about 100 billion transactions. In 2021, it was 35. The increase with 65, almost triple, if you take them, it's both on UPI and on closed loop wallets. That increase is more than the rest of the world together. India is the place to be. And we are there, and we are talking to the central bank. We are talking to the biggest bank. I don't think people here in Sweden really understand the scale and the. You know, I think people would. Here in. Particularly because our investment base is Sweden. If we say Swish, people go crazy about that. That's so small compared to what we're doing. I don't. Just look up the numbers, what Swish does, you know, per annum. Just look at the numbers, what's, you know, UPI does almost per month. That's much more. This is where we're going in with our sort of solution. I think this is extremely important project, but everything is looking great. We're meeting them, and we're meeting both of these banks. It's already set up for the week of February 27th. We hope to get a meeting with RBI as well. They've reached out, and they wanna hear more about our solution. Actually, it was yesterday, I think, or two days ago, RBI announced that they're gonna do a 2nd HaRBInger Hackathon. We were part of the first one. This is where we showed how to interact with paying between a smartphone and a card or a wearable and exchanging basically Digital Cash. We had that, and I know RBI really loved our solution. They told us, "You should have won," even if the jury didn't think so, because they disqualified us, actually, because they felt it was non-mobile, it was supposed to be. You're having a mobile part of it. We thought that it was kind of a weird that they. We won the hearts of RBI there, which was the most important. Now they have four new criteria, and one is, how do you deliver retail CBDC, and especially with offline transactions? I think that's one of their four criteria or what categories that you can compete in. We're definitely gonna go for that one. Then we can show this for CBDC for RBI. We will not just show Digital Cash offline. We will show Digital Cash telecom. We will show how we can be quantum-safe for the future. We can show consecutive offline payments. We can show what we did last year with the that we also could have financial inclusion with people who are having just cards and wearables. We have such a plethora, which is second to none in this sort of market. This is a fantastic opportunity to show off for the most important, in my opinion, central bank in the world, RBI. We definitely will enter to this HaRBInger, which is again, will be probably in the end of May, the final there. I have high hopes that we will be a strong contender for actually winning this time. Good to hear. Even though it's hard to compare numbers outside of the Indian market, of course, if we move on to OutDIA, as you like to call it in the report, outside of India, and look into Nigeria, and the progress there, what has Crunchfish been focusing on in this region? Well, well, well, for Africa as a whole, there is the Central Bank of Nigeria. This is the project, and we have sort of trained 20 people in their organization about Digital Cash offline. They've asked also, they have a big part of a population who is one of those that cannot or doesn't have access to mobile phones, and they want a sort of a card solution as well. We are in discussion with that as well. We are sort of finding our ways, and we're giving them quotes for various sort of setups that they wanna have. Right now, there is an election going on in Nigeria, and we heard it from other people who are other companies who work in Nigeria. That stops a little bit the government's activities because they're waiting for the new administration come in. It's actually gonna be a shift of the president will step down because he can't be reelected. There is. That's happening, you know, here in February. That means that I think some of the negotiations has taking. Yeah. Even if we've given them, I think, if two or three rounds of proposals that they asked for, it has taken a little bit of time. We've understood now because we asked around, "Why, why is it sort of being a bit quiet right now?" It's normal because it's right now in the election. Patrik Lindeberg, our CEO for Digital Cash, he has a meeting with the Central Bank of Nigeria today actually at 11, which is just to hear where we are really. They need it. I think they've been in the press that they can't print enough money quick enough, so they definitely see that they need the eNaira, the electronic Naira. Without offline, you know, it's just another digital payment service. The central banks need to take on themself to deliver it in an offline basis because otherwise they don't really replace the cash as it is in country. Right. Wibmo, of course, also an interesting, initiated partnership. How is, how has the progress been there? Is the Digital Cash integrated into Wibmo yet? They've signed what we call a DDA. Typically, the process we do with customers is that they first sign an NDA. That means that we will give them access to our development portal. They get all the information they want. The next step is that they sign a DDA. NDA is sort of non-disclosure agreement. DDA stands for demonstration and development agreement. Then we actually release our sort of our software to them. They don't have any commercial rights. They have the right to develop with it, integrate it, and demonstrate. They can do that. They can't just resell it in any way. The third phase after that will be an SLA. Right now we've had, we have all these phases with, say, the HDFC project. We've had the NDAs, and we have the DDAs, and we're right now into the SLA phase. This is where HDFC will use our sort of template for an SLA, and we have to just set the commercials there. Here we are. They've signed the DDA. Well, they have on their website, if you go to wibmo.co or I think it is.com or.co. They call it a full stack online payment solution platform. Obviously, if we have sort of the offline piece as well. What they wanna do is to actually put our stuff in there. Any customer that they have, and they have about 160 of them. They're interesting for us because they have some of the big banks in India, and they have some of the big banks internationally as well. They can go to customers with a full suite, a full stack online and offline payment solution platform. We obviously are that offline piece. We miss a great, I think, addition to us. I'm really happy with that. There are others as well. HDFC in their press release, they outed that we've been working with M2P, another great company in. They have a lot of customers as well. They are the leading prepaid company in India. If you think of prepaid is that almost like PayPal. They have a platform where delivering to banks, if they're gonna offer prepaid services that you sort of like a wallet. You have some money there, and you can use that. That platform is what M2P is really strong at, and they are the leading prepaid company of India. That's quite similar to Digital Cash because you reserve out some money, and you sort of use it. That's why I think HDFC chose them, I think because they felt that they could be a good, yeah, deliverer, deliver this. They've done a great job. We've had a great working relationship with M2P all along. They have this platform now that the actual trial is on M2P's own apps that they've developed for this project. Later on, this will just change that our SDKs, our sort of software, will be directly integrated to the platform of HDFC and IDFC, but linked to the same backend. It's quite a small step that they need to take in order to then. Because everything works in the backend now, and it's just to put our SDKs in another. They're trialing it out in this way, it will be quite easy for them to swap into production mode. They've tried it in a quite a safe environment, and that's what it has been. I like Webmo a lot. We're gonna meet them as well when we are in Mumbai. Everybody is in Mumbai. Having a week there. That's the capital of, certainly the financial center of India, I would say the world's capital when it comes to payments, for sure. The capital of payments. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Wow. Of course, we need to cover the news that you released earlier this week, the Trusted Application Protocol. You mentioned it in the memo as arguably the most important improvement in digital communication since the internet was introduced. Those are in the big words, could you explain further what this actually means? Yeah, we I think we realized just some weeks back that what we've done in payments, because as I described it before that payment service are not robust. You know, if what uses it that because they are typically using the internet, payments, payment service are using the internet. They're what's called TCP/IP, that sort of protocol stack. If you as a user do not get access to the host from your phone, you have something on your phone, and you need to communicate to the back end. Right now, you here in Sweden, you are at the big event, a lot of people there are no more data channels. You don't get access. Young people in Sweden, they don't have credit cards, they don't carry cash, they can't pay. All of a sudden they are just, they're just stranded there. However, the telecom network works. They can call home to their mom and say, "Come and get me because I'm, you know, I'm, you know," after the event, or they can send an SMS. What we do here is that we are completely agnostic to the rail that we can sort of connect over. We can connect over telecom just as we can connect over TCP/IP. The internet, what it's really all about the internet, it's sort of connecting one network, sort of the network that you are on, Johan, to another network that I am on. It can connect networks. That's what it can do. That is of no use to you, Johan, if you can't connect to the back end. You know, you simply, you know, it could be as stable as it is, the internet, but you. The application that you're on cannot get access. What we do is actually then adding the connectivity not between networks in the back end, but actually between applications in the front end. What internet came along with and did was to stabilize the back-end communication. What we do is to stabilize the front-end communication, and that could be that you need to get on another link to the back end, to the host. Instead of TCP/IP, you use instead maybe the telecom. That would be a really prime example. We can also connect, as we do with Digital Cash offline, we can connect just peer-to-peer, you know, from one phone to another. We don't need any connectivity. That's what we do with payments. What we've done with payments in that vertical, payments, is already an example. This is an instance, this is an implementation of the Trusted Application Protocol. We've done it already. When I explained this idea to our developers, they said, "Well, come on, we have this already." I said, "I know. We have it." It's no new development. The only thing we do with this opportunity is that we expand the market, the addressable market from just being payment applications, which are, you know, even that is in the billions that we can have, you know, get sort of a, some sort of a subscription for per annum. It's in the billions. All of a sudden, this is goes for now for all sort of applications, not just payments. I gave some example. This could be for social media. One of the things that they want to see accountability on social media to get rid of a lot of the trolls, that is one way to do it because we could provide with our trusted environment on the application layer, on your front-end device, you could be KYC'd there, that know your customer. The issuer of that social media platform know who you are. You need to onboard it. You can't just get on if you are just a, you know, you can't be anonymous. It's a service can allow it because I'm the first one to say that for payments, you should be able to get on it as well to be completely anonymous because we don't want the central bank or the issuer to track you, anything you do. We trust the service. We trust the service of Digital Cash. This, you can tie the service to a trusted identity, and that could be very important as well. Any application suffer the same problem as the payment ones, that they're not stable. If, you know, if you don't have internet access, you can't use it. All of a sudden, we are expanding our addressable market where we can sort of send, sell our sort of trusted environment, linked to the application. We can go anywhere with it. We, we're not gonna run away from payments. We're very focused to do payments now, and we are so close to breaking through. We just created ourself a huge second wave here. I have some external people that are really technically really savvy looking into, what are the key use cases? What are the key verticals where this innovation is applicable? As internet stabilized digital communication between networks, we stabilize it between applications in the front end. I argue that this is. I think it's the biggest innovation we have done in Crunchfish, but it is like Internet 2.0. It is at that level. It's huge. I appreciate that the market. I can appreciate the market being bit tired, "Oh, no, not another disruptive idea." It is. We've already done it. This is what we have in payments. We're just applying it in a generic fashion. I think in the... I didn't have that in the press release, but in the quarter report, in the chapter which is, which has our new tagline, "Connect and pay"-Always. What I mean is you can connect always, this is from any application, and we can pay always. It's, it sort of shows just. You can just look at it how, it's the same thing that we do for payments that we do for any digital application. I think it's fantastic. We're a small company, and we are turning. We have a, an innovation which at such a ground level as the internet itself. This is just amazing. Yeah. We still do it first in payments, which will be a great showcase for any other area to wanna take it on as well. What a fantastic follow-up we have having this. If we would look further into that then maybe look at the competitive situation, how would you say that other competitors are in this area? They're not there. They're not there. I... That's the same as we have it in payments. No one is anywhere close to where we are. We are so comprehensive. Just look at our the whole product suite. We have Digital Cash online, we have Digital Cash telecom, we have Offline, we have Consecutive, we have a Non-Mobile, and we even have the idea of how to make this sort of quantum-safe in the future. It's such a fantastic platform. Now applying this same sort of logic to any other area as an, as sort of really a protocol innovation for basically. Because this is not just for TCP/IP, the internet protocols. This goes for anything. We're completely agnostic to application, protocol, communication network. We're agnostic to anything, so it applies to anything. I don't think anyone is there. I don't see any competition. This is... I think it's just huge. Yeah. Great to hear. Moving on to Gesture, you also released a memo prior, just prior to this meeting, saying that Joakim Nydemark is leaving Crunchfish. What's your comment on that? Well, he is not really leaving. Joakim, you know, we came together, him and I, for at least 10 years. He is leaving his operational role. He's been our, he's been my right-hand man, the COO of the company, but he's also, as people out here are aware probably, that he's been the CEO of Gesture Interaction. Operationally that would be a loss. He will actually, if the annual meeting approves it, he will be take part of the board. He has another three months, and in three months we have our general meeting. You know, I don't think we will actually lose him for a single day. He will still be there. He will take a step back or, yeah, you can say that. He will be more in a board capacity. He will go to Precise Biometrics. It's kind of funny because Patrick, who is our CEO of Digital Cash, he has worked there for 17 years. It's another great company from Skåne, from Lund, who can do. It's really deep tech. They are the one who developed the tech that Fingerprint Cards took to market. They are the deep tech company there. Also our Engineering Director at Digital Cash, Rutger Petersson, he's worked there for 10 years. It's almost like we... Yeah, it's no hard feelings. I... For sure I'll miss Joakim sort of from a day-to-day basis, but we have already some ideas of how to fill his position. Maybe it will be two persons. I think we will strengthen the Gesture area because I think that's... It's exciting what is happening. Yeah, he's not really leaving, but he still will be in the board instead. That's how I like to look at it. I wish him all the best. He's a fantastic guy, and it's gonna be good for Precise Biometrics. I think we will keep a lot of his know-how, as he's hopefully then becomes part of the board if he's elected at the annual meeting. More generally in the Gesture area, you also attended several marketing events in Q4. How was the response then, and what are your focus areas in this area for 2023? Yeah. It's still... It's sort of happening more and more. AR/VR has been one of our focus areas. We are doing good things, we've announced, you know, we have Ximmerse, we have Lenovo, we have, yeah, a handful of other great names that like what we do. We're really strong in this area. We have the automotive section as well, which is sort of there also. I'd like to talk a little bit about a new area which is coming up, which is live video shopping. Live video shopping is something that is growing big. It's typically you do it over the web and you, you know, you are, you're shopping for things and you're getting some sort of live sort of experience. We are collaborating with a company in Croatia called Exospecta, and they have technology to very quickly turn around an application or a platform to very quickly turn it into for anyone to really do some, yeah, interactive applications with it really. Us working together, it really turned out really well. We have, yeah, quite a few leads now in this area of live video shopping. It's interesting. That's sort of a new area which is coming here. I'm, again, I think our technology is second to none in the market. It's amazing what we can do with just a normal camera. Just as I love our Digital Cash team, what they can do, really magic with a very few hands, the same goes for the Gesture team as well. Fantastic talent. Yeah, this is also where there will be cool things happening here, and there's so much in the pipe there as well. Joakim will be missed, but we have to fill his shoes with someone also commercially as sort of commercially who can drive a lot of these deals because Joakim is handling a lot of things on his own really. I spend very little there, so I need someone who can take up, and be quite, you know, self-sufficient, who doesn't need my help because I believe still, as I've said many times, that Digital Cash opportunity is order of magnitudes bigger and I don't wanna be defocused by spending too much time on the other side of Gesture. I'll keep my focus on payments and Digital Cash. We'll find replacements. I'm not too worried. I think this will be that we probably strengthen area because for the first time, we will have a Gesture specialist at the board. Joakim has been at the board meeting as someone who came in there and presented to the board. now he will sit at the board, and we will have someone else coming in and showing what we're doing here. Right. I also want to encourage you to ask questions. I hope the Q&A function works. I haven't seen any received questions yet, please try that if you want to ask something. In the meantime, I thought we could look forward and sort of what do you think investors could expect from Crunchfish until the next report in May is releaseda Yeah. I really think that we need to have signed agreements. I think everybody's waiting for that. I know everybody's that is the only thing we need. For me, this is sort of, you know, it's kind of jokingly, I've used that terminology before that we are on a journey to outer space. That's a long journey. I appreciate that one agreement signed and having showing sort of the numbers will give more clarity to our business. But I'm not after one. I'm after, I don't know, 30,000, 50,000 of those deals. That's what I'm after. I can't be too bothered if it takes another month. I'm not gonna put enormous pressure because I just have to have it. We have the cash we need to run for the entire 2023. This will come. I think if you look for May, yeah, I think it's very likely. We are running this pilot with RBI, with HDFC. It's going great. They will turn into commercial things. We also have sort of I don't know how many it is, but almost a handful of banks who are not part of this project that we will meet as well when we go to Mumbai. They're all in Mumbai. That's where the headquarters are. That's the financial center, and the banks are there. We'll meet quite a few other banks, but we also have other payment platforms. We have I think this is a hot area right now, both for CBDC, but also for commercial payment systems. I'm doing my best to really push the story that it's not about the niche case, as I said before. Offline payments is not about, well, where don't you get connectivity? Maybe we can use it there. This is to make payments as robust as a modern society requires it to be. This is for everybody. I think that I hope my hopes are for India because I love the Central Bank of India because they're tough. They just put They also are the financial regulator. They put requirements out, and if you don't follow it, you can't operate. They are really driving things seriously. They've done a great job so far. Look how far India has come, really being the dominant sort of player really for payments. They will continue. They have a great plan. I've seen their long-term plans as well, they're pushing ahead really in a good way. I have hopes. As I said, we will be part of the hackathon. We probably will be, I think we will be hopefully selected, that will be in May. Already before then, for the CBDC space, there is something called a Project Polaris. This is run by Beju Shah, that we had in our white paper series and webinar series. When we did a practical offline payments design, he was the third panelist. He's the head of BIS. This is the central bank of central banks. They help central banks in the world about technology and policy decisions and things like that. He runs from the Nordic, from Stockholm, actually, he runs the Project Polaris. They... Yeah, I've been invited sort of, we would have gone in anyway. We will be part of that and showcase and we will describe that breadth of our solution because it's all Project Polaris is all about a resilient CBDC. Beju and I, we are absolutely. Why should a user care if you're online or offline? It should just work. You have to think about how can you design that? I think Beju would appreciate what we do with our Trusted Application Protocol at that level. That's the solution. I think he, as a technologist, he has great technical background, you know, worked for 10 years at Bank of England. He would understand. He would pick it up and understand what we could do really here. That will drive, I think, central banks all over the world will get advice from that project. We are very central to that, or central. We certainly will participate in the best way we can. We have, I think, the leading central bank of the world when it comes to payments, RBI. We are working closely with them, but also then BIS, who helps all central banks in the world. We have two great sort of cases here. Add to thatEverything else that we have, everything is still on. You know, the e-wallets in India, the one in Vietnam, and we're adding more payment services. Everything is going forward. You know, just enjoy the ride. The journey is long, you know. As I said, welcome on board, the doors are closing. I think we are taking off. This is really a cool journey that we're on. In my opinion, we're the only company in Sweden that have a chance to get onto the top 100 of the world in terms of market cap. I don't think anyone has the technology that can do that. I think we can, and that's sort of huge from where we are today. You know, People are saying, "But maybe you will sell in before, or maybe you buy out the company." I can just say that we won't buy out the company from the stock market. We won't. We are happy with this position we have as the main owners. We won't do that, and we won't sell. There is no way we will sell at this opportunity. We understand more than anyone what we have, and we can just ride and have dividends coming from this opportunity. We won't sell in any near time. Just join the journey, get on board, enjoy the ride, and you will be a happy person. That's what I believe. Yeah, I can see a question here from the audience that's sort of associated to that. It's saying, "With the future you describe, why haven't any bigger company acquired Crunchfish? Should be very cheap based on today's stock price. Yeah, but I wouldn't sell. I think we have not at all delivered or we don't at all have the valuation. You know, you can't acquire a company. Companies don't just sold. There needs to be a seller if someone's gonna buy it. I'm not selling. Come on, I have 23%. I know our chairman, he's the other main owner. His company, Corespring Invest, they have 20%. We are not selling. Get it. We think it's a ridiculous valuation right now. I'm not supposed to comment that, but that's what we think. We don't mind. It could be anything. We're just here for the long term. Yeah. Yeah. They can offer as much as they want. I, we won't sell. Full stop. Nice to hear. I don't see any other questions so far. Please, write anything if you want to, ask something to the company. Do you have anything else that you want to add, Joakim? I think something new that we've done is that we're coming up with that Crunchfish iQ because we are spending, actually quite a lot of time on our quarterly reports, really trying to give our best view of, and summarize what's going on because we appreciate it's complex material. It's complex what we do. I think it's possible if you follow us to understand it. Now this is a 50 pages long quarterly report, which is. Yeah. I don't know if any stock market company have 50 pages long quarterly report, but we do. That's a brick of information. It's sort of hard to digest it. But we will chop it up in pieces, and that's what Crunchfish iQ is all about. What Alejandro, who's working for us as a marketing consultant, is doing right now is to take each story, and there's probably about, I don't know, almost 20 stories. Each spread, each two-pager is a story that would be single post on LinkedIn. We will have about 20 LinkedIn posts where you can ask questions, and I'll do my best and with my team here to answer them. We create a little bit of a dialogue here on every single story that we put out. Ask your questions there. I wanna, you know, encourage that. We love the dialogue. You know, I was actually trying to be very helpful I think because I felt the speculation were wild on some of our shareholders forum and but I wasn't allowed. I was told by Nasdaq, "You shouldn't be on these forums." I say, "Okay, I'll get out." With Crunchfish iQ, I'm sort of creating a public forum that, you know, encouraging questions, and we'll do our best. We are a very open company. We're not scared of. We know our stuff, and we like to explain it as best as we can, and we welcome the dialogue. Please ask questions there, and then you can continue without me on your share forums and discussing things. I won't be there. I still follow it because I learn a lot, and I love Some people there are just fantastic or finding things for us, and then we learn a lot from it. Crunchfish iQ. It stands for Interactive Quarterly. It's a new things. I don't think any stock market company is doing it, but this is what we do as of now. In addition to that, say 20 LinkedIn posts that will come out now very shortly, so that could be posted, and it could be shared, or you can have questions on it. We will do a newsletter, and you can subscribe to that. When Alejandro have put out all these, say 20 LinkedIn posts, there will be a newsletter, which is a summary of each of the stories and you can subscribe to that on our LinkedIn channel and then you know. We will do that every time when we have a quarterly report. It would be exactly the same information that we have in our quarterly report. I don't wanna spend additional time. Breaking it up. It is like the Eurovision Song Contest or the Mello. You know, there is one thing to look at 90 minutes, but you have to sort of really. You know, it's a big piece to digest. They also publish song number one, song number two, song number three. When Jesper Rönndahl runs around with a balloon on his head and doing nude ballet, that's is a special piece. We'll do the same, and I think that's very accessible. And I think it's a good thing, all for transparency, all for openness, all for dialogue. We love the dialogue, and we're not scared because we feel that we, yeah, we have our position and it's protected. That's why we can be quite open with our technology because we do file for patents. Right now we have 44 unique innovations, of which 33 has been granted patents. It's fantastic for a company of 20 people. That's how strong we are on our IP side. Another question from the audience. When do you expect to see sales from the Fintech platforms, i.e. Sirius and the Indian Fintech firm? Say, what was the first? When do I expect what? To see sales from the fintech platform, Sirius and the Indian fintech firm. Yeah, Sirius, that's a smaller one. I know they have done the integration already, but it's been a little bit slower for them. I think Wibmo would be more aggressive and faster. Certainly now when it's actually becoming really known in the market that you can do these things. I know Wibmo wants to take up what is called Digital Cash Telecom. I personally believe that that's a key product of ours because if we have that trusted environment on the phone, it means that the user do not have to care if they're online or offline. You can pay to anyone, not just to the one which are previously onboarded with Digital Cash. The solution we had for HDFC is Digital Cash offline, but you need to then pay to someone who is previously onboarded. With Digital Cash Telecom, which I know they wanna go for, and we're gonna release that now. We thought it would be 1.3, but it's gonna come in 2.1 here in a few weeks, really. We can pay to anyone in India, anyone who have a UPI address, we can pay to. That's gonna be a very important product. Then you can always pay in full, in full offline as well. We can direct it so you pay sideways from yourself to someone without any network connectivity. Using Telecom as an alternative route to the host, to the back end, will be enormously powerful. I know Wibmo will be very quick on that one. That I think will have a profound impact on stabilizing that user don't have to care if they're online or offline. I think that's the key piece, and we bring it out very soon. Guess what? I think we have. It's not 100% approved yet, but it looking good that we will get a patent for that one as well, at least from the dialogues with the examiner. So yeah, IP-wise, we're very strong. Good to hear. With that said, we have talked for about an hour, and I think we have answered all the questions from the audience. Unless you have something to add, I thought we could round this up. Thank you once again for listening and providing questions. Of course, thank you to you, Joakim, for hosting and for, continue the work. Thank you, Johan. Thanks for great sort of interview. I'll put up the Louis Armstrong again, shouldn't I? Of course. What a wonderful world. Sounds great. Have a great one. Thanks. See you. See you soon again. See you. Bye. It didn't start, but, well, we had it in the beginning. Thanks, Johan. I end then there and it will be available. I'll make the interview available to you as well. We put a front page to it and end, and then we send it to you. Perfect. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Bye-bye. See you soon. Bye. you soon. Bye.