Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the China Theater. At 3:00, there's going to be the Investor dialogue, first of all, where we'll spend some time with the chairman of the board, Mr. Wallenberg, and Christian Cederholm, the CEO, in order to ask questions about the situation in the world and other matters which may arise. I have a few questions from stage. Jacob Lund is my name, first of all. I'm in charge of communications at Investor. I'm going to open up for questions from you, shareholders. There are a number of microphone officials, so make yourself known, raise your hand, and make sure they see you so they can pass you a roving microphone. So much for the practical matters, but let's get started with questions. It has been a bit turbulent over the past few years when we've been here. We had the threat of tariffs last year that we discussed a great deal. Now we have yet another war that we need to consider. Unpredictabilities continue to characterize an ever more protectionist world. Jacob, you mentioned this in your chairperson's address in the annual report. Could you tell us a little bit more about your thoughts on all this? Yes. Well, there was someone who asked me before we got started here today, before we came into the hall here, asking me if I had ever witnessed such a complicated time before, and I would say that, no, I actually haven't. What's my reasoning behind that reply? Well, we've all grown up in the era of globalization. Where, you're more or less my age, most of you in here, and we've learned that we should go and travel the world, we cross borders and boundaries, we get to know new cultures, the economy will develop and grow, etc. Over the past few years, this has changed to more protectionism. You mentioned the tariffs and a global uncertainty, U.S. and China, with a great deal of friction. We don't know what the President in the U.S. will be announcing by tomorrow morning that will change the game again. We have a horrific war in Ukraine being waged there and another horrific war in the Middle East. All of this changes the prerequisites and the conditions. How do we go about making long-term decisions on the board of directors of Investor in individual companies? It's very, very complicated when you don't know what tomorrow is going to look like. The difficulty of making decisions not just for tomorrow, but for the longer term, new factories, new research programs, etc. It's an era, indeed, where a pause for consideration is required, even more so than we've been accustomed to. Let's try and zoom in a little bit, Christian, on the conflict in the Middle East and Iran. Could you say a little bit more, tell us how this will impact, how it impacts the companies right now, and what can we expect for the future? Yes, I'd be happy to. Before I get into the Middle East, specifically, let me say that just as Jacob commented, there are so many different challenges, a whole range of them, different parts of the world, different situations. Every company, of course, has different preconditions and possibilities. Before I give you a general answer, I think it's very important to remember, to emphasize that centrally in our model with the decentralized governance, where each company and each board of directors is responsible for taking action and being responsible for all opportunities and challenges that they face. Nevertheless, to try and say something more general about what we've seen in the Middle East, I would split this into two different time frames. First of all, what we've witnessed so far, and we've read, the Q1 reports from most of the companies, the interruptions have been quite limited, especially when it comes to the logistics and the flows. Fast-forward a little bit, we see that there's no re-resolution yet. We might not expect a rapid resolution. There will be an impact. We have the oil, price of oil, all the oil derivatives, plastics, etc., the freight costs. All of that is ticking up, and it is going to impact the income statements of the companies with perhaps a delay of a lag of one or several quarters. Not only will costs go up for the various input materials, but a scarcity as well. We're starting to see that a little bit already. What about demand? What happens with demand? With the war, inflation on oil, more expensive fuel, for final consumer, it's an additional burden for consumers in a fairly difficult time already. When we extrapolate a little bit, it's going to take a lot of work, we believe, to balance all this. Now, in Sweden, we have a general elections this year. Jacob, what are some of the most important questions and issues at stake in terms of industrial policy and what will impact companies and the business community here at home and in the Nordics and in Europe? What do you emphasize when you meet politicians? Well, I have the benefit of also being a chair of Swedish business, and I've represented the Swedish trade and industry and questions, issues that we deal with and highlight, well, it has to do a lot with education, continued education training, the importance of R&D in companies and at universities alike. We also talk about infrastructure, tax, roads. Energy is something we talk about as well, nuclear, wind. I would very much like to see an agreement between political parties when it comes to how to finance nuclear power and wind alike. The discussions that we see today, well, they do not seem to be able to agree. Also how to manage all these licenses and all these processes that companies have to go through today that are very complex. These are problems we see in Sweden, we see exactly the same thing in the E.U. All in all, it's about how to become more competitive and ho w to make our companies more competitive so that we can create more jobs, better tax revenue, etc., because it is so important for our countries. These are important questions. We're not going to go into party politics here, we've had a debate leading up to the elections, there have been discussions about shortening working hours, that has been given quite a bit of space. We see a world today that is changing rapidly. I'm thinking about China, for example, how do we think about that, developments that we see in China, how will we counter that? Well, I'm going to start with China, perhaps, and then continue with the shortening of working hours or mix the two. Well, when we look at the trends in the world and what will impact our companies in the longer term, then it's, well, competitiveness from China. That is one. AI, sustainability. There are other factors as well. What we've seen in China is that Well, if we go back a number of years, they were competing with low production costs and a quality that was okay. Today, what we see is that we have many Chinese competitors that have become much more ambitious and also are much more capable today. The fiercest competition today in many sectors is from China. Not to just low production costs, but they're leading in innovation, technology, applications, etc. Our companies, they have a good starting point, but this is obviously something where we need to keep attention. We cannot take a step back. We have to make sure that we can compete in China with those very fierce competitors and demanding customers. Against that backdrop, well, I'm not sure that the shortening working hours, that that would be the right reply. I would like to link on to what you're saying. I think that we should actually go back one more step, and then we can see that in 2008, the E.U. T he U.S., they had the same GDP. Then in 2023, the U.S. is 25 percentage points above the E.U. and the U.K. together. In those 15 years, they have grown so that they're 25% bigger than us, which means that they have shown that they have that capability to develop things rapidly. We see the same thing in China today. In China today, they can make a car from the beginning of design until it's given to the customer, a new design. It takes them 1.5 years. In Sweden and Germany, it would take four and a half years. three times as long. The U.S., they're faster. China is faster. These are our two main competitors. We, as a nation and E.U., we have to remember and understand that. At the same time, we're saying that we should work less. From a trade, business, industry perspective, that is not the right response when we see that tough competition. The same thing goes for qualifying days. We know that those qualifying days that you have when you're sick, well, we know that that is not the right response either. We have challengers, we have to remember this as part of the equation. Just to tie on to what you said, China, you have decided to bring the board to China. Why? Well, the board of directors of China and Patricia will travel together this fall, we're going to do that because quite simply, we want to learn more. What Christian said about the Chinese development, what we've seen in the car manufacturing business, well, we want to see real examples. We want to meet with companies. We want to meet those people driving this from companies, politicians, because we need to learn more on-site, because this is the reality today. Another area where things move very rapidly is AI. Christian, what do the companies do not just to keep up, but to stand strong as they come out in through this enormous technological shift? First of all, it is a shift indeed, the greatest one I've witnessed and perhaps the greatest one since the electrification, potentially. It's major. It's going to impact all the portfolio companies, and it's going to impact and provide both opportunities and risks throughout the entire delivery chain and supply chain research, producing products, production, sales, aftermarket, and of course, how AI is used to improve products and the product offering for our customers. There's lots to do. There are many good examples in all of the companies, I would say. It's also very clear that we're only at the beginning of this journey. Here you might think whatever you want about AI. I'm technologically optimistic. I believe that there will be mainly opportunities, even though there is a shift, and it can be difficult. It doesn't really matter because if we don't do it, somebody else will do it. It's our job as owners via the boards and all the work we do with our companies to ensure that we're driving and encouraging proper investments and real leaps forward so that we can come out stronger at the other end. That's interesting because there are some forces that will warn against AI and talking about it. Let's try and make this clear. If you're standing over here, you might think that AI is wonderful, and if you're standing here, you think it's the worst thing that ever happened to humanity. Where would you position yourself on that scale? I think here. You were there. I'm there. I'm over there. I'm optimistic when it comes to technology generally, as I mentioned. I think that we will also see that there are more opportunities than risks. Having said that, you need to relate, of course, to this from the perspective of a company risk and governance based on AI. How do you share information? What do you permit AI to do individually and independently compared to where do you want to have the human in the loop so that humans make the decisions? Another obvious matter to deal with is the transition. From a workforce perspective, it's going to require a lot of transitional action. Some people will fall in between somewhere. Over time, things generally work out you, and you need to respect the process. In spite of all the risks, I get back to the fact that if we don't do this, somebody else will. There's no choice. We don't have an option to do anything else, and we are already doing it, as you heard. Can I also add that just what Christian is saying here is important. In the meantime, others will do precisely this, and if they do it, and you as a, an entrepreneur, as a company in Sweden, fails to tag along and you miss the train, as it were, you're never going to be able to catch up. I believe that this is a matter of survival for us as well. It's not just, generally, how do we relate to it? I believe that it's a major transition and a great opportunity. That's why we want to be an early adapter. Yes, it's happening at a very rapid pace. If we look at what the companies are saying, our company and other companies in their quarterly reports, they're going from experimenting with AI and talking about how they're using a little bit here or there. Today it's very concrete. What are the revenue opportunities? How do you work with efficiency improvements? Just to underline the fact that this is happening here and now. Very good. Another area which requires a lot of refocusing is the green transition. We've talked about it for a long time. Sustainability is an area which is central and crucial as far as we're concerned. We see that that transition is being challenged from various channels. At the same time, Investor chose recently to sharpen and tighten our sustainability goals. Why was that? Well, as you mentioned, Jacob, sustainability is about long-term competitiveness for us. If we don't do this well, we're going to end up with companies in our portfolio who are not really fit for the future. The great thing and the simple thing about all this is that sustainability already today both generates good business and is beneficial to the climate. The simplest example is, of course. Well, I'll take one step back to say this. If we look at our emissions, the emissions from all of our companies, 90% of the total can be found in the customers' use of, for example, Atlas Copco's compressors or the engines produced by ABB. It also means that we have a great incentive. When ABB produces an even more energy efficient engine in the future, it's a saving for the customer here and now. ABB can gain market shares, raise their prices or what have you. It's already going hand in hand with good business. Jacob, you recently were ranked the third most powerful person in sustainability. I know that you're very passionate about these issues. Yes. The reason I was awarded that distinction, people like you and Christian drive this so much in our organization, in Investor, and we're all working with this in many different ways. To add to what Christian just said, at the end of the day, it's about a moral responsibility, nothing less. This is a matter which impacts all of us, and we need to and will deal with it. It builds business opportunities, you've mentioned that, but you need to also bear in mind the next generation of employees. They demand, in most cases, that their future employer will have an active way of relating to the green transition. There are so many different reasons why you need to keep working with these issues. We've done this for quite some time in Investor. We've been very active in relation to our companies for a long time to push these issues, to canvas for it. We see when we talk to companies, we go out and meet them, we get the reports. A lot has happened, and the work continues. Well, we're soon going to open up questions, so you can just start to think about what you want to ask about. Christian, there is a lot written about Investor. There are many analyses that are being made, most of them being positive. There is a certain level of criticism as well, which usually is how come that you continue with the companies that are not developing at the same rate that you would have wanted? Here, usually, Husqvarna and Electrolux are mentioned. Why? Why all this patience? Well, in our strategy, we want to be long-term engaged owners, then we also have to take responsibility and be there when the going gets tough. Electrolux and Husqvarna, they have a mix of problems that are external competition, difficulties with distribution change, etc. I'm sure a few things that could have been done better internally as well. What is important, and this could be complete company that we have in our portfolio or part of Atlas Copco or Epiroc and their business. Well, usually what you see is that there is part of the business that isn't as successful as we would like it to be. The most important thing is that we are in agreement that we can discuss it. Board of directors, executive management, owners, we have to be in agreement. Two, we have to have a plan on how to rectify things. We have to feel that we have the right people around at the table in management, board of directors, etc. You get started. Sometimes it's very fast, you can fix it, and other times it takes a bit longer before you get there. We are going to talk about the strategy and the three business areas. You'll be doing that later on, the three business areas that you have within Investor, and that is unique in a way. Of course, we continue to invest. If we start to think ahead towards 2030, which of these business areas, where will we be investing the most, and why? Let's back up a bit. We have a very clear strategy for capital allocation. The most important thing is that we can be there, support and build the companies that we have in our portfolio, and then we want to be able to pay a steadily rising dividend, and that's two. Three, we're also open to, and we're actively looking for new opportunities. If we look at the three business areas, well, it is gratifying, of course, to see that in these different areas the last few years, we have invested in all three of them. We will not or we haven't today a strategy where we say, Now, this particular business area is to grow this much. We try to use this opportunity that we have the three areas so that we can look at the different opportunities and what's best. Historically, we can see that a lot has been invested in Patricia Industries, and that is because we have seen opportunities in that portfolio. If we look at things today, this pipeline is still very strong. In 2025, we did invest in all three areas. Okay. It's great to see so many shareholders here today. We have a number of new shareholders since last year, some 70,000, I think. We have 733,000 shareholders in Investor today. What do you think about this, that we have so many new owners? Well, great. It means a lot, as a matter of fact. It is proof, I would say, that there is a lot of interest in Investor, and I, Christian, and the executive team, the board of directors, we all think that that's wonderful. That also means that we have a responsibility to continue to invest and continue to do what Christian has highlighted here today. As the Chair of the board of directors, well, it's a responsibility, of course, and it is important. I want to stress this. It is important that we have a dialogue around all these issues that we have touched upon today, and that we do that on an ongoing basis, that we talk about these issues. We cannot get actively involved in everything that's happening around us. As we've said already, these are very complex times, perhaps more so than ever before. At the same time, we could say that it's exciting to be active. Okay, let's see if it now gets more complicated with the questions from the audience. We're going to open up, so if you have questions, then raise your hand. I think we have someone there, and there's someone, well, at number nine as well. Please remember to let us know who you are before you ask your question. We'll start with nine. Magnus Hultin is my name. I represent myself. One strength that I appreciate and have experienced with Investor is that you continue to take good care of having a possibility for an exchange of experience between portfolio companies, between, for example, Chair's Circle. We heard about the trip to China coming up. I'd be interested to hear a little bit more about a perspective of other topics that you've discussed over the past year. How did they pay off? Let me first mention briefly some background. You can tell us about the here and now. This started 50 years ago when the head of information from the companies were invited together and created a network. They set up a network where they met a few times a year. You had somebody that you could talk to who wasn't a competitor. It's been opened up so that all CFOs have a network, all legal counsels, etc. There are a few networks. An informal network has been set up with an exchange of information, and it's meant that it's been possible to raise the bar for the knowledge that was needed. It set up the stage for where we are now. Tell us. Well, it's a unique setup, really. We have 24 or so portfolio companies where no one competes with any other one. We can gather tomorrow. We have a discussion of whether we can create a similar forum as Jacob outlined on digitalization and AI. We had a discussion about an exchange of experience with China, and in relation to China, what worked, what didn't work between the companies. It's a unique feature. Let me also add, you asked what this has meant. One of the clearest examples was the fact that when Atlas Copco was moving forward for decentralization as a role model company. I don't know any CEO who didn't call Ronnie Leten, who used to be the CEO at that time for Atlas Copco, because they wanted to hear from him on his insights, good advice. This is something that Ronnie, with great commitment, was happy to be involved in. That's just one example, but it's just a very good example of how it can work really well. It's one thing to meet. You can have an agenda, you can have some external perspectives added, and then you facilitate some sort of sharing. Where it becomes really interesting is when it takes on a life of its own. When Jacob says when one head of sustainability, for example, is there with a challenge and just makes a call to one of the sibling companies, then you really created something important. Many questions. Let's deal with number one now. Here's number one. Go ahead. Well, thank you. I represent Shareholders' Association and Pension Funds. You have been talking about sustainability, and we actually have a few questions about sustainability and how that is integrated in the work that you do and the follow-ups you have on the portfolio companies. You can start, perhaps. Well, again, it is an integral part, and it is so because we have to have a sustainable company, or it won't be competitive at the long run. You have to look at the different companies to see what it means. As owners, in concrete terms, we have expectations as to how they are to reduce Scope 1, Scope 2 emissions, also, that they are to have strategic objectives, work with circularity, etc. Then the board of directors also discusses this, and we have to have a plan on what to do and also have clear follow-ups. Then sometimes you also link this to incentives. What do you do to impact portfolio companies so that they have clear sustainability objectives in their corporate governance? Well, it's pretty much what I said, and Jacob has also mentioned this, that in the past year, we upgraded the targets, also including the climate, and we expect companies to adhere to this. Sustainability work in your portfolio companies, what type of follow-ups do you have? Well, of course, we look at it at an aggregate level within Investor. We did that at a board meeting today. The most important thing, the main bulk of the work that is being done in the respective company, and it has to be done that way with the model we have. The challenges and the opportunities are different for the different companies. You have the same level of follow-ups for all companies. Do you follow up in the same manner for all companies? Yes. Of course, some of them are much more advanced and perhaps more sophisticated in the discussions that we have. In other companies, it's more about getting them started. Thank you. Thank you for that reply. Thank you. We'll continue with number five. Number five. Jan Andersson is my name. My question is a personal one. I'm thinking about hydrogen. Is that a good additional complement to the energy mix for Sweden generally? Well, hydrogen and hydrogen gas have been considered for a long time a good addition, but currently, we note that there's no strong development in that area. There are a number of problems connected to this. It's very expensive to start with. It's cost inefficient. You take hydrogen. You have water. You extract hydrogen. You use it as a source of energy, but the process is very complex. It's difficult to transport. It's a high-risk activity. So much so that many have tried to find solutions, but we're not yet seeing any large scale solutions. Possibly somewhere, but it's not really expanding. Right now. It could be a battery in the future, but right now, this is not something that we've identified as a viable alternative to the other options we already have. We have nuclear and offshore hydropower, etc., and wind. Thank you very much. Hi, Oswald is my name. I'm 17 years of age, and I represent myself. My question, how to deal with an actor like the U.S. and also work with sovereignty within Europe, for example, with AI, when we rely on that infrastructure? Well, a good question. A very good question. I would say that there are two dimensions. One being integrity and how we make sure that it stays here, so to say. I don't think that we should be using rules and regulations. I think that the EU, Europe is doing too much in terms of regulation because that hampers development. If we see the U.S. and China, well, they develop much faster. I would like to see that we have better incentives for a more rapid development so that we can compete on equal terms. There are many people who think, in here as well, I'm sure also, but you have very strong opinions, many of you, when it comes to the U.S. President. We have to distinguish between individual and relationships between nations because the latter is something much more long-term. It's perpetual, basically. I personally, I do think that it is key that Sweden and the EU, that we maintain the best possible relationship with the U.S., and we know that there have been ups and downs. Here and now, I do think that it's important for us to do that. Here, I also want to say that Sweden and the U.S. together have signed an agreement with a focus. It's a decision, to focus, according to, well, what it's called, Pax Britannica, where it said that we should have that open exchange, and that this is not about, law, but, that we're to have an exchange of, technological development so that we can learn from each other, and that we should be able to send information in both directions. I do think that's immensely important, and I hope that we can deepen that so that we can have a long-term relationship with the U.S., and we should do the same thing with China. We need that relationship, and long-term, we need to have that relationship with China. We have a mutual dependence between us and the U.S., us and China. There could be specific questions, human rights in China, for example, where we have to stand up and fight for our values. At the same time, it must be possible to have a relationship with China, with the U.S. We might have our opinions on the president, but we still have to be able to maintain that relationship. I apologize if this is somewhat lengthy as an answer, but I think this is very important. Thank you. I think we'll go to number eight and then four after that. Henry is my name. I represent myself. I'm wondering what the board of directors do to constantly improve your work and your knowledge to secure competitiveness for future challenges. Let me go first. The board has an internal discussion ongoing on how we should work, but at the end of the day, it's based on the strategic work done in the businesses. It's a bottom-up approach. The origin of this is the work of the company and its CEO, who will then raise this up to address at the level of the board. That's where we discuss what we need to go where we need to go more in-depth. It has an impact on the board. That's why we're going to China, for example, to learn more. It's Christian and his team who drive the process, and then we interact with them, and we have continually a follow-up process of the work that's being done. If I can underline something, let me say that this specific point of making sure that you introduce external perspectives in that context, that's crucial. It could be listening to the CEOs of the companies, of course, but also try and look at what customers are saying, what does it look like in China, what happens in the U.S., etc. It can be risky when things just go well, fairly smoothly. You focus too much on the internal prospects. You need to remember what's happening in the world around us, technology, etc. Number four. Patrick Blomberg is my name, this has to do with democracy. It might seem a bit odd to ask this question here because we have this investor dialogue, the room is filled with people. Of course, it's great that you have this conversation with shareholders. Sweden, we have close to 3 million shareholders, and I think we're kind of unique in that respect. Investor alone, over 700,000. I think that is a bit of a record as well. At the same time, we see that AGMs, well, we have fewer and fewer shareholders attending. Well, here today, obviously, well, most of us are a little bit older. One exception, one person being 17. I'm thinking about Investor in the olden days as well. You had special exhibits for young individuals. You were at Älvsjö exhibition center. Then in those days, there could be 3,000 shareholders attending an event. What to do? Are you concerned about this? The dialogue with the shareholders, that it's not just about speculating or hoping to get more money. How to get young individuals involved? Is this kind of silly of me? Well, I do agree, as a matter of fact. I think that this is an excellent forum for us to meet with shareholders, and I do believe that, well, sometimes there are discussions about whether we should have a goodie bag or more interesting sandwiches. I do think that this opportunity to have an open dialogue, a two-way communication, that is where we have the justification and what wants you to come here. That is our thinking, and we're happy to have you here. It is very important. We would like to continue with this. I want to add that what you're highlighting, it is a problem. It is. There are many of you here today, and that is positive, of course. Truth is what you're saying. We have less and less people coming to AGMs. What we used to do at the stadium, well, I think that that was extremely popular. We have to remember today that we also have digital means because we have more people attending digitally. Yes. To have events like that, it is positive. In the rest of the world, I have to say this is unique. They have annual general meetings, but then it's a formality. Usually, you only have employees there. I do think that we can find, and I hope we can find ways to improve this. People today, they say they're using mutual funds, etc., and well, that's a fact. Compared to last year, we have an increase here, so that is positive. That is a positive trend. Number 16. Christopher is my name. I was here last year as well, and I asked a question then about the Social Democrats, but we can leave that aside, and Trump. Trump has taken over Venezuela. They wanted to buy Greenland. You could have just ignored all of that and said, yes, why don't you pay with gold bars? You don't have to worry more about that. They were going to take over Iran. Trump wanted Cuba, he said. Elisabeth Svantesson went to the U.S. She has some serious concerns about the U.S. sovereign debt. What is the U.S. going to do to deal with their situation when it comes to their indebtedness? We have Macron in Europe as well, with EUR 5,000 of an increase per second in their public debt. 117% of the GDP currently in France. Currencies. There's Iran. What's your question? Interruption. Yes. What's your perspective on the currencies and doing business? Of course, you don't just want to be paid in seashells or what have you. You'd like to be paid in something which has a permanent value. Let's take Iran. Shall we try and answer the question? The public debt of Sweden. Well, we are at very low levels in Sweden with the debt, giving us room to maneuver. All parties agree that we should allocate more money to defense. We will borrow money for some of that. I think that's the right decision under certain circumstances in a particular situation like this. I don't think it's good to have an indebtedness which is too high. I'm going to leave to the Americans to decide how to deal with their situation in the U.S. I have no answer to that, but the matter of currencies generally is a very interesting one. Let's take another perspective on this, the euro. I think it would be interesting if Sweden actually, in the sphere of politics, had an in look in-depth into pros and cons with the euro, because that's a discussion we should be having, as far as I'm concerned. The day when it's time to make a decision eventually on that matter, I don't think it should be by way of a referendum. It should rather be something based on factual elements and leave it to the politicians to make that decision, considering all the factors, because that's what they have to do to take difficult decisions. We're going to be democratic. I'm going to give the floor to point two now. Go ahead. Well, I'm a shareholder, I want to ask a question about the qualifying day when you're sick days. I do see that there is, well, good reasons, perhaps, if you have to take care of a child or something. I hear many good arguments from trade unions, but we have a problem when this turns into a question for the elections. Do you think that there are any opportunities here? Well, when it comes to that qualifying day, we have the people who decide to report that they're sick and can't work, and that doesn't have to do with having to take care of a sick child or bring the kid to preschool or something. The only thing we know is that there are numbers that are increasing, and one might assume that people are not really as ill as they are. Perhaps that means that we aren't as efficient. We work fewer hours in total compared to our competitors. That is my perspective, and that is where we have the issue, how to maintain competitiveness. That is a difficult issue. I can say that, well, working from an office, there, of course, we have injustices. We have people who can work remotely from home. We have others who have to go to their workplace. I do believe that many things can be done efficiently from home. You can also make your everyday life more efficient that way. Thinking about the team, the company, when it comes to innovation and Well, I think that it's important to meet. The two of you and the others here, you will meet again in 14 minutes.