Welcome to the Permascand Q3 report 2023. For the first part of the conference call, the participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answer session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing star five on their telephone keypad. Now, I will hand the conference over to the speakers, CEO Peter Lundström and CFO Linda Ekman. Please go ahead. Thank you very much, and welcome to our quarter three financial presentation. We will move on to slide number three, and we will start with short glance of what Permascand is. We have 50 years of experience in the electrode and the electrochemical field. We were founded in 1971. We are a technology-driven manufacturing of high-performance electrodes. We do it for different markets and for different applications. And what we are focusing on when we're looking forward is the high-performance electrodes for advanced alkaline electrolyzers for the hydrogen market. Today, we have +20 projects in hydrogen. They are well spread over the globe, and they are in different stages. Some are more mature and for commercializations, others are more startup and for the future. Today, we are around 130 people in the organization. We're based in the middle of Sweden, in Ljungaverk, in the beautiful valley of Ljungadalen. But the main part of our operations, the main part of our customers and business that we do is outside of Sweden. We have now been listed on the stock exchange market for about 2.5 years. We were listed in June 2021. We made record sales last year of SEK 569. And we have saved a lot of energy since 1971 with our high-performance electrodes, and in total, about the same as we use in Sweden during one year. Of course, we are increasing year-over-year, since we have a good portfolio and continuous delivering into our customer sector. If you move into the summary page, we are really, really happy. I mean, quarter three is a good quarter out from the circumstances. We had, as you know, a terrible start in the year. 50% of our revenue was in 2022, coming from the water treatment and the ballast water treatment segment. And we are now on our way to replace this with the future growth markets that we have seen and that we are foreseeing for Permascand in the coming years. It's coming from hydrogen, it's coming from the lithium industry, from nickel, copper, and from the power transmission, which is the transport of electricity. And in all respect, this is really in the central gravity for green transition and lowering the CO2 emissions globally. And we are in the middle of that. If you look into quarter three, I mean, we had a strong order intake, and we are starting now to build back a growing backlog. It's driven by the electrification and renewables, and it, it's also driven by our industrial solutions business, the after-market and service. We managed to increase the order intake versus last year, 154 versus 143. The sales is decreased by 35%, but it's coming from the water treatment segment. The electrification and the industrial solutions is in growing mode. And we are managed really well with the customer mix and also the product mix to improve our gross margins from previous years. And we managed also to make out from this sales level of SEK 78 million, we managed to make an operating margin of 7%. So we are a profitable company, and we have shown again that the scalability and the flexibility in the Permascand's business model is working. So we have a positive cash flow despite the fact that we had a tough cash flow situation in quarter two. It's now reinstated, and it is in shape, as we say, also said on the last call. We see that after the quarter closed, we have signed a letter of intent with a major player in the hydrogen space. And we also received, well, from the state of where we are, a significant order within the hydrogen. If you move on and take the next page. I hand over to Linda. Thank you. We look a little bit more on the revenue development, and as Peter said, in the third quarter, we had a decrease of sales and deliveries. It was decreasing both compared to last quarter two, but also in the corresponding period from last year. We have revenues of SEK 78 million, and as Peter also mentioned, this is due to the fact that the water treatment business is now declining. We had SEK 66 million of sales in Q3 last year, and now it's SEK 6 million. So that pushes the decrease. But on the other hand, we have increased sales in our other two segments, electrification and renewables, and also in industrial solutions. As the other segments are growing, we can also see that the mix, the share of total sales is now increasing for industrial solution and electrification and renewables. The water treatment is now a smaller part than before in our total sales. If we also look at the comparison between new installations and recurring aftermarket, we can notice that in 2023, the recurring aftermarket and service business is increasing. It is, in this period, nine-month period, 34% of the business and the sales. We move to the next slide. Slide number six. This is the order backlog and order intake. We can gladly see that the order backlog is now increasing and growing. At the end of September, we have SEK 344 million in signed orders for deliveries, and we can also see that the majority of the order backlog is now within the segment of electrification and renewables. And, in order intake from this quarter, it we are really glad to say that SEK 141 million is within the segment of electrification and renewables. 130 of those is an order that we have announced separately. It's orders for aftermarket services, which within electrowinning. We have also announced after this report was closed that we have also received an order in hydrogen of SEK 17 million that even more increases this segment. The backlog in timing, we have 40% for deliveries in the next nine months, and we have 59% in the coming nine months for up, for 18 months. And then, I believe that we have a good visibility for continued business, and we are strengthening the product and the product portfolio in all the segments. Nevertheless, the order backlog for water corresponding to what we have announced is declining. But we're looking forward to continuing Q4 and building order backlog for next year. Next page. Number seven. We had some questions and some remarks on the cash flow in Q2, and also the low value of the cash is SEK 16 million, was what we entered this quarter with. But due to the fact that the payments of customers of receivables, we have managed to turn this around, and we have a positive cash flow from operating activities of SEK 43 million. It's mainly driven by the change in working capital, that has increased with SEK 34 million. With this positive cash, we have continued to doing investments for the future growth. We are continuing with our technology center. We are building a modern laboratory, we are also continuously working with our coating facilities and the ability to be on top. We have also in the financing activities used cash for reducing the overdraft facilities. So when we close quarter three, we have SEK 36 million in cash. We have outstanding loans of SEK 64, which gives us a net debt of SEK 27. So I think that we can say that we are in a strong financial position. We have low levels of net debt, we have a ratio equity to asset, which is 67%. So looking forward, I believe that we have all possibilities for growth. Next page. We now move into number eight, and this is, you have seen it before, you also see it in our colleagues' presentations, but this is really kind of the goal deployment map that we're looking at, and hydrogen is definitely in the focus of all our activities that we are aiming to do in the coming years, and also for, of course, in the coming decades. And there is a lot of announced projects for the coming years. It's not so much in the pipeline for 2022 and 2023, but it's starting to grow from 2024 and onwards. And we have said before that 2025 is the kickoff year. And then it will be deployed capacity and installations in the coming decades. And despite the fact that we are at the moment at 230+ GW in announced projects, this is far away from what the Paris Agreement and this net zero ambition is requiring to reach a better world, the lowering the emissions, and really get there where we want in the future. So it is for sure a growing market, and it's for sure a really, really big market from where we are today. This is really why Permascand is focusing on this and why we are also investing heavily into customer partnerships and into product development, to be ready when it takes off and when it is needed to supply to all these different projects. We move on to the next page. We started to show this in the last quarter. This is a living document, but we have now started to increase our backlogs. We start to see similar levels versus the prior years we have had. And it is, in fact, of a good start in quarter four, also growing continuously. We have increased the hot quotations. I mean, it's moving upwards. We're getting closer to closing deals for some of the beliefs that we have in receiving orders. The prospects and the pipelines are also growing from the fact that customers are coming closer and they're getting more mature into it. What we see and what we have also addressed before is that the level of cost that this business can carry is going to be lower when we are scaling up this. We can also see, and we're starting to use more realistic price targets and price measurements, and price ladders for the really, really big volumes. We get more volume and we will get a little bit less. And this is really the trick for everyone involved, because we all would like to make money. And when we're looking into the next slide, it is important that we have this letter of intent and these agreements with big players that are aiming for big volumes into the future. They're, of course, as everyone else, slow-moving in the beginning. We're talking about megawatts, 10 MW, 100 MW, but the goal they have is many, many gigawatts in the coming decades. And it is important to have and be part of a driver of the business, because we need to really be efficient in our manufacturing steps. We really, really need to be efficient in delivering advanced products, and we also need to be improving over time. And this is really what this letter of intent is all about. And on top of that, since we are going to use much more materials than we have used in the past, it's also very important that we can make circularity and that we can reuse, and making sure that we have less scrap, and less variations on the materials. And we see this, as we have stated before, that the 2025 is really the jump-off point, and then the future will tell how much it will grow. It's also interesting to see, we have announced a SEK 70 million order for advanced electrodes for hydrogen production. And this should be stated in the comparison on that over the last 12 months, we have actually delivered for SEK 22 million. So in one order, we are actually receiving basically the running-12-month sales we have had in the hydrogen space from several different customers. So it is for sure, we're getting into bigger volumes and we're getting into the commercialization stage. But really, the step up will come in 2025 when it comes to sales. And order intake is from now during 2024 and then onwards. You change slide. We're also very happy that the last week we actually signed the 25th hydrogen projects with an NDA with a new customer, a global customer that are today using less advanced electrodes for their electrolysis, and they are going into the next generation. We are part of the next generation, where they will test our electrodes, the cathodes and the anodes, and of course, we will do what it takes to be part of their growth journey. This is a global player, so the world is really the markets that they are achieving. So we have now 25. So it is a growing path, and there is really in this next generation of development of more efficient electrolysis. That's where Permascand is attractive, and that is where Permascand is focusing, and that is really where it all started in 1971 to have really advanced electrodes, stable ones, energy efficient, replaceable through reusable, and also that they have a long lifetime, 8-10 years, and that when it's time for aftermarket and service, it is a cost-efficient process, and it's less downtime for the customers to run their operations. But we are at 25 now, so it is really, really good to communicate this and that it's still growing with new partners and new customers for the next generation of advanced electrolysis because that's really where the market is heading. And if we're looking at the Permascand's value proposition, I mean, you have seen the pyramid before. It's all about the catalytic coatings and the electrodes, and we are supplying electrochemical cells. And of course, we do the coating and the refurbishment service for primarily the industry solutions, but also for some part of the business in the electrification. But when it comes to hydrogen, I think Permascand's really core value is around the electrodes and the catalytic coatings. It is not really to move on into assembly of electrochemical cells. The value for us and what we can add value to the customer side is on the electrodes and the catalytic coatings, and it's both the cathode and the anode. So we see the scope, you could say it's a little bit more narrowed maybe than what we do in industrials and in water treatment. But that is really where we see the strength for Permascand and where we really can be good and focusing in delivering large scale big-sized electrodes for the customers to use in their electrolysis. And then when it comes to aftermarket and service, it is, of course, to manage and handle that in a very, very efficient way going forward. And why is that? We've shown this slide as well before, but I think it's really, really important to make everyone aware of that, that this is really not a short-term game. This is a long-term game, and it is the levelized cost of hydrogen that we are aiming for, to lowering the cost of producing hydrogen and making it more attractive and replace other type of sources and fuels for it. And it is for sure around the pressurized alkaline electrolysis that seem to gain momentum, and this is also where the next generation going. It's also around the size of the electrode that is also to make, of course, you push more volume through a smaller sized equipment, so you reduce the footprint, and you maybe don't need two or three football fields to place all your electrolysis to produce the hydrogen. So that is also another theme or trend that is going. It is the new design of how we are manufacturing and creating, designing the electrodes. We use in the past a lot of substrates, but we're going more and more towards thinner materials, what is called wire mesh or fly net, which instead of the expanded mesh that we are maybe more using in other types of industries. So it is a more complicated materials to manage and to really push through in high capacity. And it's also around how efficient is the electrode? How much electricity can you push through, and for what is the lifetime? And normally it is the cathode, but it's also the anode that gets in really, really important. Permascand has today several different testing projects, and the results from them are really, really good so far. We are in the phase of stabilizing the anode because that is the tricky part. The efficiency is there now, to get the lifetime and the stability up, and then we have a package to deliver. So both the cathodes and anodes is going to be our product offering when we're scaling this up into the future. The last topic is around the platinum group metal catalysts. We're using them to really make the stability and the efficiency, lowering the energy consumptions, and create the lifetime, very expensive materials. The trend is, of course, to try to find something less expensive, and also to move away from it. So far today, I mean, this is one of the most efficient way of creating this advanced electrode. But for sure, the future innovations and most of our focus is to bring electrodes without group metals catalysts going forward. I think we are with our history and with our expertise and with our competitive. I mean, we are well positioned to capture these technology trends. We are in the right places. We are with many different customers in many different phases. We have already today high-performance cathodes, but we also need, and we also know that we need to have a bigger variety of cathodes, so we can offer the different levels of cathodes that is necessary in different projects. We can deliver today up to 12-13 amps per square meters, and we are aiming for the 15 amps. We have products that can deliver up to 20 kilo amps per square meters. But if you look at where the business are today, we're talking about 5-6. So there we need also to be able to have products maybe in the range of this high down to a little bit lower, so we can take a bigger part of the full-scale installations. We are accelerating the innovations. We are building this lab, this innovation center in Permascand. It will be ready in a couple of months' time, and we are then increasing our testing capabilities and that we can also do more advanced demonstrations that we have been able to do in the past. But this is really, really important. Our internal goal, it is a performance cost ratio that we're talking about, and we will improve 150% from where we are today. So this is really challenging, but it's also very motivated to bring this to the market in a couple of years' time. And I think the last bullet here is around the circularity and the sustainable sources that we will go for more than 50% raw material from sustainable sources. So it needs to be recovery, and it needs to be an efficient way of managing, reducing the usage of material, but also that we are really good in making circularity of it, because these are big projects. It's a lot of material that needs to be handled, and we need to be efficient in how we are circling it back into its original form and can reuse it. The same as, as you can see now in the battery industry, it is the circularity that they're aiming for to be a greener company going forward. We do the final remarks. I think we are-- I mean, we are really proud that we have now two quarters in a row, SEK 150 million in order intake, and we are growing and strengthening our backlog. We really see that we-- as we said, really from the beginning, that it's going to be industrial solutions will be our base business with the, with growth, but maybe not high growth. Electrification and renewables is really where we saw the areas of growth. It's coming very, very strong during this year, and it is compensating for the water treatment market that, unfortunately, seems to be, has dropped off, earlier than we anticipated. I mean, we thought we were going to have a good year in 2023 and a decent year in 2024, and then it should restart, 2025, 2026, with the aftermarket and service from all the installations we have done since 2017. But we see that we are on a good, good path to recover, from the water treatment market. We're lacking a little bit of sales, but we are, on the other hand, growing the order intake and the order book for the future. But to be said, I mean, there is not going to stop with this order book. I mean, we need to continue to win orders and to take further steps into our commercialization and to our customer intimacy and continuously to grow this. We have a good start in quarter four, so we have good beliefs that quarter four will be a good quarter when it comes to order intake, and that we will improve from sales-wise in quarter four. But what will be said, we have reinstated it before, that we have a scalable and flexible business model within Permascand. We are profitable, we are cash flow generated business model, which we are reinvesting into our future projects, and we have a low debt ratio. So I think that should be in context to the market as such, and so on and so forth. We are self-generated. We are not dependent on one market that needs to take off or not. I mean, we have a good base business and growing base business, and can survive if things are going south or west, or takes a little bit longer time. We see clearly that the hydrogen is moving forward, and I think the letter of intent is definitely one sign for it because they are signing up. So we are ready to start delivering and to work with them commercially to reach the targets of levelized cost and also to put good products on the market to continue to grow this business for a long time. We're talking about decades. And it's also a proof of concept or proof of evidence when we're receiving one order for hydrogen electrodes of SEK 17 million when we during the last 12 months has actually done sales for SEK 22 million. And I think it is good to point out the bullet number five. I mean, Permascand is the center of gravity when it comes to this green transition. I mean, we have high-performance products. We have proven that we can lower the energy consumption, that we have long lifetime. It's a stable environment. We have improved process for circularity, and we can do new installations, and we can do very efficient aftermarket and service. And our ambitions are, of course, when growing markets are to be a global player with more local support for the manufacturing and for the service part. And I think 50 years of experience, it is a respectful number of years we have been in the electrochemical industry, developing electrodes for different applications. And we see an increasing share of this attractive recurring revenue, and it's coming from an increase in customer base, and it's coming from the new sales that we have done now year over year. We see that 60%-70% is new sales and around 30% is aftermarket to service in a growing environment. I think that was the final remarks and then what we had to present during today's calls. Now we are ready for questions. If you wish to ask a question, please dial star five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial star five again on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Johan Wettergren from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah, just a few questions from my side. First one is on the hydrogen volumes that you talked about that will sort of commence in 2025. I mean, what type of sales volumes or sales levels are you hoping for or rather planning for at that time? If you could just elaborate a bit. Now, but we have said that the commercial order is from SEK 50 million and upwards. That- Yeah ... is really where we see that it starts to be significant revenue. Now we received a SEK 17 million, so it's basically half of what we are putting out internally. So when it starts to be one project for SEK 50 million, then it starts to be for us a commercial sized order. Yeah. That's good. And then just on the water treatment business, you talked about it a bit here that, I mean, obviously, sales volumes now are very low, but then when should we expect sort of the ramp-up of the aftermarket business? You mentioned here sort of 2025 and 2026. Is it gonna be sort of notable in 2025, or is it all and then a big ramp-up in 2026, or is it gonna be, I mean, already very visible in 2025? I would say from the second half of 2025, it starts to ramp up, and then from 2026 onwards, it will be like a repeatable business. I would say in a decent size business. When we're talking about a decent size business, I mean, it is from SEK 100 million and upwards. Yeah. And then just on, Linda talked about the order book and sort of the average delivery time, but I actually missed what you said. But was it 40% of the order book is for delivery the next nine months, and then you had the remaining 60 was basically from beyond nine months up to 18 months? Did I understand it correctly then, or? Yeah, just let me check. In the next nine months, it's 40%. That's correct. Yeah. I mean, in the next nine months, which means then 10-18 months, it's 59%. Okay. Cool. And then maybe also, if you can help me a bit with sort of the gross margin out. I mean, you did 33% this quarter. It's been around 30-ish. Is that sort of where we should expect it to remain in sort of if you take the near term? And then also you had sort of quite low OpEx levels in the third quarter. So just if you could elaborate a bit on what is reasonable to assume here for the next quarters. This is sort of a new level where you expect to be, or should we expect to pick up? If you take the margins, I mean, we have guided before that that is the margin that we are expecting going forward. When it comes to the cost levels, we are—I mean, we have—we said after the quarter two, quarter one and quarter two presentations that we have put a lot of things on hold. We're not expanding the team and number of activities during this situation until we see that things are swinging back and that we're starting to replace the drop in water treatment with new sales from other segments. So you have, of course, some one-time positive items in quarter three, and of course, we also utilize holiday period with the favorable effect that has. So if you compare to other quarters, we are exceptionally favorable in the cost side for quarter three, and we cannot have holidays in the same pace in quarter four, so the cost will increase. We are for sure very tough in cost controlling and to not start and drive cost more than necessary for our execution and for our order intake. Good. And then just one last one on sort of CapEx requirements here in the next few years. I mean, what have you said anything on sort of what type of CapEx levels we should expect in 2024, 2025? No, we have not- Or maybe we can sort of- No, we have not communicated that yet. I mean, we have invested quite a lot of money into Permascand over the last, I would say, five years. So we, we are- Yeah ... well invested into our operations and into capacity. So we do have a lot of spare capacity on the levels where we are operating and running today. And we also are doing the finalization of this innovation and technology center, which is really important for our abilities to come with new products and improve the ones we have. But there is, sooner or later, we need to expand our capacity, and we need to take our modules and make them more specified for the hydrogen business, because we're talking about nickel materials, and we're talking about coated materials that are a little bit specific, line items, and so on and so forth. So there will be a need of larger investments in a couple of years' time, when we see that we're starting to reach the capacity levels that we have already built. So sooner or later, when we are expanding out in the world, we need to continue to invest in a new facility. Perfect. Thank you. That's all for me. Thank you. There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any questions from the web or any closing comments. The next question comes from Karl Bokvist from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good morning. My first question is on industrial solutions. If we exclude the third quarter last year, the average margin has been a bit above 40%, around the levels you now posted in the third quarter now. Is this a fair level going forward? And also tying it back a bit to Johan's question on the group gross margins. I mean, you said a couple of quarters ago that 27, 28, 29 was a reasonable level, now it's 33. So it is higher than what you said might have been the case. I'm just thinking about how we should consider this development. We are looking at more on the 12 months trending and the year to date, maybe than single quarters, because single quarters can be influenced positively and negatively of the products mix, the customer mix, and innovation projects. So you should see it more on a longer trend than a single quarter, because we had favorable product mix and customer mix in the quarter, and it's not always that we have the same, and also number of innovation projects was a little bit less during this period of time. If I could also comment on industrial solutions specifically, I mean, year to date, for the nine months, we have a gross margin of 39%, but in this specific quarter, we had 42%. Mm. And we have also talked about the kind of difference there between the aftermarket and sales business within industrial solutions and the new build and the greenfield project. So that is also what we can see this quarter. Understood. So in industrial solutions, it's more relevant to look at year to date rather than the long-term average since 2021? Yeah. If you look at the 2022 full year, I mean, that's 41%. So we- Mm. I think if we look at the trends within industrial solutions, we are pretty much in line with. Mm where we used to be. All right, thank you. Then, it was partly answered, but just to understand it, the hot quotation part of what you highlighted, that it's now 800 compared to 600 a quarter ago. Maybe if you said it, and I didn't really pick up on it, but is it because you now look, you know, another three months further out in time, or that you feel that the order prospects have improved compared to three months ago for the fourth quarter and the first quarter of next year? It is the latter. It is more mature, the prospect lives going into hot quotations. We are having more, how you say, real quotations for real orders and for real deliveries. Mm. It's an increased maturity in that respect. Okay. Understood. And then the comment there within hydrogen, more of a long-term aspect, but how do you strategically try to position yourself and manage the kind of pricing discussion that you highlighted there in order to avoid margins and pricing developing in the same manner as we have seen in water treatment? It is around the product development and the manufacturing efficiency. I mean, those are the leverage that we can use. I mean, how can we produce the same with less material and with less catalyst materials? How efficient can we be with our manufacturing processes? And then, I mean, you have seen our facility. It is automation and robots that is going to keep us with healthy margins for the years to come. If we would do this manually, it would not be possible, and we would be out of business. But I think we have proven over the last five years that we are really good in bringing automation and roboticized very flexible and very efficient capacity machines that generates profitability. And if you take the water, I mean, the water price level has dropped significantly from where we started when this business was growing. And at the same time, the cost of material has gone in the same way, and we are still making money. So we have proven that we can mitigate cost increases and also price levels and still make profitable business. Of course, it's not as profitable as it maybe was before material price increases and before the price dropped, but we are still very, very good in making money out of what we are delivering, and that is what we continue to do in this landscape. And when volume comes, there is for sure a lot of benefits if you're able to do it very efficiently, and that is what we are going to do, and we have also proven that we can do it. Understood. On the cash flow side, now it's positive this quarter, but the year to date, the changes in working capital are, for example, still a negative SEK 70 million. So looking ahead, both perhaps into either just one quarter or into next year in terms of how you see payments and advances and so on, do you think that the total change in working capital for the full year or in the next six months can kind of recoup even more of that negative figure that we started the year with? I would like to go back to where the year started, because in the cash position at the beginning of the year was extremely good. I mean, we had a negative net debt, which was positive. I mean, we had more cash than loans, and we were nearly didn't use any bank loans at all, and we had also received prepayments from customer for a very large order beginning of the year. And what has happened since then is that we have delivered on these orders, and in the beginning of the year, we also had low order intake that affected. And in time, when we kept delivering on the current backlog, I mean, it affected the working capital. So I would say that we came from a start that was too good to be kind of normalized, and then we have kind of gained back some of the, the going back to normal levels, I would say, for working capital. But with that said, I believe that we - it will continue to be positive in the fourth quarter, because when we were at the bottom or when we were at the end of Q2, I mean, that cash position was... It was due to the fact that we were waiting for SEK 25 million in customer receivables, that we just received a couple of days later. So it has been a too-good situation at the beginning of the year, and it was too low situation at the end of June. But now we are stabilizing and coming back to more normal levels again in Q3 and in Q4. So did that answer your question? Yes, that helps. My final one is on, I believe you had a comment on sales or deliveries for the fourth quarter, Peter, but just how to think about it, if it's possible, a bit more detailed. If we look at, for example, 2021 and also 2022, we had this pattern where the first and the third quarters were more similar in terms of sales, and the second and fourth quarters were more similar in terms of sales. I realize perhaps the almost SEK 170 million in Q2, that's a pretty high number. But should we think about Q4 in a similar kind of manner, that the delivery in Q4 will be higher than Q3, but could it also, you know, be higher than what we saw in Q1? But I think you see, you see the drop in the water treatment, and you see that we are gaining back the momentum in industrial and in electrification and renewables. But for us to catch up fully during the last quarter, it will not be possible. So we will have a gap versus our comparable year last year, for sure. The trend is basically, as you have seen, during these three quarters, we will improve in quarter four from quarter three, but we will not reach the sales numbers that we had last year, due to the fact that the water is really low, and the other ones are climbing up, but they're not climbing fast enough to recover fully during this year. So it will be more next year, where we will see that the other two business areas will take over the lead and continue to drive the development of Permascand, and water will be continuously on a low level in 2024. Oh, okay. Understood. That's all for me. Thank you. Thank you, Carl. There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any questions from the web or any closing comments. Yes, we have received a couple of questions on the web. I'm not going to read it out, but I will try to answer it. And then one is around the hydrogen and where we are focusing on the electrodes and the catalytic coatings and not for the complete cell manufacturing and so on and so forth. And that is because the trend we see is not in the way that it will be a lot of assembly work. It is around the electrodes where you have the value and the advanced electrodes with the coating on it, and then you use nuts and bolts more than anything else. And I don't think we will be able to be very efficient in that process. We focus on the core value we can bring to the customers, and then when the assembly part it will take place somewhere else. We would deliver the components, the electrodes and other cathodes, and then it will be assembled closer to the customer, in the future. So I think that was a lot about that question. I think we answered around the relationships. I think we said it was a mixture of mature, commercialized projects are under construction to very early stage, very interesting prospects that probably will bring the next generation or the third generation time. And then when it comes to see, let's see. Hmm. It was around quarter four in order intake. I think we have said that we are off to a good start. We have announced the Hydrogen order, and we also wrote in our report that we have received a bigger aftermarket and service order in industrial, and we have improved continuously on the order intake since the difficult start we had in quarter one. Yeah, it was also questions around the timeline for these projects around financing. I think everyone has asked DONG Industry regarding that, and I think I don't have any other view than most of the things. Normally, there are delays in this, and of the 25, I would say four to five of these customers are on the front run with the finance projects and on the construction. So there is for sure more to come, and we cannot do so much about the electricity situation in Sweden and in other countries. So I'm sure some of these projects will probably be delayed. And I don't think anyone else has any other crystal ball to look into it. But what we are focusing on the ones who are financed, we are focusing on the ones who are under or are under construction, and on its way to kick off from 2025 and onwards. And then we have to monitor this and, of course, time our investments and our focus areas and CapEx and OpEx spend in relationship how fast this will go. But we can look back into the wind power industry. How was that in 15 years ago? How was the battery industry in 10 years ago? This is probably going to have a similar pattern in the next coming decade for sure. I think that was the questions that we have received. The next question comes from Johan Wettergren from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Yeah, sorry, just one more question. On the competitive environment and the landscape, I mean, can you just talk a bit about how this is evolving and if you've seen any change on this side over the past year? I think, I think you know the landscape of the players, and they are the same. You have some component suppliers, and you have some electrolyzer suppliers. There is for sure some that are doing integration on the component side. Mm. I don't think it has changed so much. We see for sure, if you look at the Bloomberg top list of companies with capacity, I mean, there is an overweight for Asian company. At the moment, it is the alkaline technology in the majority part. And that list was pretty the same from 2023 to 2024, but there are some companies that are for sure coming with new capacity and new products to the market. And it's going to be an evolution for many years to come. But Yeah ... it is the same suspects. Yeah ... that was there last year. They, they are all growing from the positions they had, and, and they are all moving this forward to commercialization. Okay. Thank you. Do we have any more questions? I think we covered the ones who were writing in the chat. If we have no more questions, we thank you all for listening, and we're looking forward to come back in quarter four and to present the Permascand performance and of course the activities and achievements we have made during these months to come. Thank you very much, and see you soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.