Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the VEF Q3 2023 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a questions and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. If you wish to ask, please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to our speaker today, David Nangle. Please go ahead. Super. Thank you, operator, and good morning, good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to our Q3 Results Call. I speak to you from New York today, on the road, and we're very happy to walk you through our results of the last quarter and year- to- date. We'll do as per usual, myself and Alexis, our CIO, who's joining me on this call. We'll go through a number of slides, which are available on our site and also via the monitor system, and take about 15-20 minutes to walk through latest thoughts, trends, et cetera, in the company and the portfolio. And then, as ever, we'll open up for Q&A at the end. Moving on to slide number 2 to kick off kind of key events of the quarter. What's worth mentioning and what we'll delve into a bit deeper in the deck as we go, NAV in Q3 was off at 12%, approximately quarter-on-quarter, but up 11% year-to-date. That's broadly in line with public market drivers, comp groups, FX, and everything in between. As we've said many times, we have a portfolio largely marked- to- market, over 90% at this stage. Hence, market moves do tend to dictate the direction of travel of our NAV on a very short-term basis. Point two is about Brazil, and we're just back from Brazil as a team, both myself and Alexis. You know, we're not here to call macro or top-down trends, but the interest rate cycle is a key theme in that market, and they've had 250 basis points rate cuts year to date or in Q3. So we're coming off highs in Brazil, and in contrast to much of the world, what we're seeing on the ground, you know, is a realization that we're at start of a new cycle. Very early days, very gradual in all that, but rates down is generally positive for macro banking system and obviously what we do, fintech, within that. Within Brazil, then two names to highlight in this presentation will be Gringo and Creditas specifically. Gringo, successful Series C funding rounds. We had a PR out on that recently. We supported this company, again, $3 million of additional capital in. We own about 10% of Gringo, and it is a clear rising star in our portfolio, and I'll let Alexis delve into that in the presentation. Then on Creditas front, we also invested an incremental $5 million as part of a convertible note and internal round during the quarter to make sure it is well funded for this return to growth that we see happening in Brazil as you look into 2024 and 2025. And final point is on the venture industry itself. We get a lot of questions on this from investors in terms of where the industry itself is at because of many headlines and stories going around and mixed messages. You know, through the prism of VEF and what we see out there, we're seeing gradual recovery, a bit like what I said on Brazil. Just a number of data points around capital being invested, exits happening, whether it be primary exits of M&A, IPO or secondary, funds being formed, fundraisers happening. We're just seeing a lot more activity coming through versus 3 months ago, 6 months ago, 12 months ago, so it's incrementally positive data points that we'd like to share. On slide three, just to kick key numbers for the quarter. We end the quarter at $423 million of NAV. As I said, that's down about 12% quarter-on-quarter, but up 11% year- to- date. You know, from a per share point of view, everyone tends to look at the SEK, given we are trading in SEK. From a share price point of view, we're at SEK 4.42 at the end of the quarter, and that's... We're trading from a share price point of view at over half that from a discount point of view at about 2 SEK a share as of today. Slide 4, just looking at the long-term duration and evolution of our NAV in dollar terms. As I say, ending the quarter at $423 million. You know, what you see there, obviously up until the year end, 2021, is gradual and undramatic, upswing, in our NAV. We like the ideology of gradual up over time. And what we're seeing after what we pulled back our NAV in Q2 of 2022, in line with market multiples, we were one of the first to do that for logical market reasons as we [mark-to-market our portfolio]. The portfolio valuation has basically been ebbing and flowing in line with the market moves, mainly on the multiples front, but obviously within that, you also have FX and our forecast for individual companies. But it's been bobbing and weaving around a similar level for the last few quarters. But year- to- date, we are seeing positive momentum, about 11% year to date. And where that fits in, just on a short-term basis, you know, you look at our portfolio down 12% quarter-on-quarter. People like to say, "You know, where is that coming from?" There obviously is a lot of individual moving parts within that, and I'll let Alexis delve into them in the next few slides. But, you know, from a macro perspective, if you take the Global Fintech Indexes in Q3, they're down on average about 8% in the quarter. Obviously higher beta to what you see in NASDAQ and S&P indices off about 4% in the quarter. And then on top of that, you had some currency headwinds, the Brazilian Real off 4% quarter-over-quarter, and the Mexican Peso off 1%-2%. It's unlike year- to- date for the first six months, where it was, you know, universal tailwinds in terms of multiples and FX. This is all outside of the quality of the portfolio and within there, Q3 was headwinds, and that fed directly into a lot of the individual marks. And I guess on an aggregated basis, our portfolio moved broadly in line with that. Moving on to slide six. Alexis, can I pass it over to you to talk a little bit about our valuation marks and the evolution over the quarter and what our investors need to know? Yes, hi, everybody. So on slide six, what you see is kind of the breakdown on a company-by-company basis, and the contribution to the portfolio and the changes on a quarter-by-quarter basis. I think names to highlight here would be on an absolute dollar value move basis, would be Creditas and Juspay, I guess. Both of those have moved down slightly, and that's a reflection of the comps and general market moves down over the quarter. Creditas, in addition, saw headwinds from the Brazilian Real. And we have a deeper breakdown of an aggregate kind of bridge on the quarter to quarter NAV breakdown further in the portfolio, but both Creditas and Juspay there are being affected by comps and Creditas on FX. I think other names to highlight would be on the percentage change front, would be TransferGo and Solfácil. TransferGo saw its comps move very positively over the quarter. That's paired with TransferGo being a company which is growing its gross profit very quickly. It's one of our portfolio companies that's become profitable. It's self-sustainer is in a position of being able to be self-sustaining. And it's one of the names in the portfolio, which is now compounding quite nicely, a bit like Nibo, with very fast growth and growth profit, gross profit. And Solfácil was a negative move that is predominantly driven by comps as well. It's coincided with a move to from last transaction valuation methodology to mark-to-market. And over the past few quarters, we've seen some headwinds to the comp group that we have for Solfácil there. They've traded down, and so the move in valuation there is just a reflection of those market dynamics. On the next slide, on Slide seven, so of the 17 portfolio companies that we have, 12 are mark- to- market, which represents 92% of our NAV. Five are valued on the last transaction, representing 8% of NAV. In the quarter, I'd say the large changes in valuation methodology were Gringo, which moved to latest transaction with the successful closing of the Series C, which was led by Valor. And we'll dive into that a little bit later. Solfácil, which I just mentioned, which completed the 12 months on the latest transaction, and we moved it to mark-to-market. The bulk of the mark-to-market markdowns in the quarter were driven by comp group performance in the quarter. We'll provide that usual bridge a little bit later. On Slide eight, I think things to highlight here, and this is the usual quadrants that we show each quarter. Despite the market headwinds in the quarter, we still see ourselves on a growth trajectory following the significant NAV reset that happened in 2022, delivering 11% year-to-date NAV growth. As we just mentioned, the bulk of the portfolio, 92%, are mark-to-market, and the 8% of which Gringo forms a large chunk, are marked to very recent significant rounds. I'd say with a big focus on achieving profitability and self-sustainability for our portfolio companies, we've seen, like, growth across the portfolio moderate from the highs of 2022, but we're still forecasting a portfolio weighted revenue growth of 40% year-on-year over the next 12 months. Just to highlight, we've changed how we disclose this. We think that it'd be more useful to the market to look at this on a next 12-month rolling basis, which, I think, you know, has gradually come down a bit, but we're very happy that this is a very respectable rate of growth for a portfolio like ours, specifically given the size and maturity of some of our larger companies. And then on the right-hand side to that, 93% of the portfolio are already or can reach break-even with the existing capital. 7% of the portfolio, which are typically at the earliest stages, have not raised enough to achieve profitability, but they have a portfolio-weighted runway of 27 months. This was listed substantially in the quarter by the Gringo Series C. So that's Slide eight. On Slide nine, this is the bridge that we were mentioning. So, you know, at a high level, you can see that the portfolio continued to grow well, but it was not enough to offset the weak performance of comps and markets in the quarter, as well as some FX headwinds. The biggest contributor to that, the decline in the quarter, was markets and peer multiples. which, you know, we saw markets react to the prospect of rates remaining higher for longer, and this also contributed to a generally stronger dollar versus some of our currencies, specifically the Real, Sterling, and Mexican Peso. On the corporate cash side, the reduction in the quarter is made up of OpEx, our coupon payments, and the two portfolio investments that we made in the quarter. That was $3 million into Gringo and $5 million into Creditas, which completes the $8 million that we'd earmarked for portfolio commitments until the end of 2023. Yeah, so that's it on the bridge for NAV. Over to you, Dave. Cool. Thanks, Alexis. Look, the only thing I'd add to the point Alexis made about the portfolio is just, I guess, differentiating between short-term NAV moves and long-term portfolio potential. And I guess you get some of these short-term moves, you know, which hit the portfolio because of comp groups and FX, but it doesn't mean a company is doing bad fundamentally. So we're very happy and very comfortable with the top half of our portfolio, you know, from Creditas right down as far as Nibo, all performing now in a very good position and much better risk reward to it, albeit the short-term NAV marks will be bullied around by markets as we've laid out our stall. Getting into just a couple of the names within the portfolio. Creditas always deserves mention, given its size and shape in our portfolio. You know, what to say here is more a continuation of the same. Creditas, Sergio and the team are very clear in laying out their stall that it's, you know, it's profitability over growth in this window. We've been very clear in reiterating that message to the market, and their, their numbers coming through on a quarterly basis, albeit with a bit of a lag on top line numbers, attest to that. So you are seeing a slowdown in growth in origination over the last 12 months, but you are seeing an improvement in the top line revenues and specifically in the growth margin. You know, revenues are growing at top line because the repricing of the loan book and the growth margin is improving because of that top line repricing. We're starting to see an improvement in the cost of funding because the rate's coming down and also the cost of risk because of the asset quality cycle in Brazil and where it's at. So those growth margins are now at 28%. They were as low as 10%-12% only a few quarters ago, and trending back towards that 40%+, which we know and love, obviously, from previous, cycles at Creditas. And then specific to that, obviously, the bottom line focus is starting to come to fruition, in terms of reducing that burn through to a bottom line positive number. And that should be seen again as the numbers come through in Q3 and then into Q4. I guess the middle chart at the bottom of this, on the central bank rate cycle is important for Brazil itself, is important for macro into banking system, but specifically is for very important for people like Creditas, and then also in our portfolio, entities like Solfácil, FinanZero within that, all of which benefit from an increase in lending volumes from lower rates, much lower cost of funding. All feeds through to the income statements, balance sheet income statements, of all these key portfolio companies for us. Alexis, would you like to say a couple of words on Gringo, given that you're on the board there? Sure. Yeah, so we thought it'd be worth highlighting Gringo a little bit in this presentation and trying to increase disclosures a bit around the name, given the fundraise that they had. So in the quarter, as you probably saw, Gringo raised an impressive Series C, which was led by top-tier LatAm VC and a partner of ours, and supported by all internal investors. It's one of the first Series Cs that we've seen close in Brazil this year and it's a real testament to the quality of the team, the execution in this tough environment, and the quality of the business that they've built. So as a reminder, Gringo serves 10 million registered drivers in Brazil with documentation, issuance, and payment services. And it successfully expanded its product suite to include a marketplace which originates credit and insurance as well around the driver and its vehicle. It was one of VEF's embedded finance investments, with highly verticalized payments platform, and now expanding into other fintech products, building an amazing user experiences and use cases around drivers and vehicles. As I mentioned, Gringo's got 10 million registered drivers. They will double their revenues in 2023, following very strong growth of 7x revenue growth in 2022. And it's expanded its gross margins to mid-40, 40% this year. Gringo's app is the number one rated app in the auto sector, and it's built the most trusted brand amongst drivers in Brazil. It's playing into a huge opportunity to serve Brazil's 75 million drivers. This, by our estimation, is a $20 billion market in just the documentation and issuance and fee opportunity before we add any of the credit, insurance, and buying and selling of vehicles, which the company intends to get into gradually and carefully over the next year or so. So you know, we are very excited about what lies ahead for Gringo, and see it becoming a more important name for VEF and our shareholders. Super. Thanks, Alexis. Look, in the next slide, I wanted to touch on an area that a lot of people, a lot of investors, market participants ask us about the state of our industry. Obviously, we're a listed investment company, but we play in the broader venture capital space. And, you know, we've got a generally net positive message to share, and it's not like an absolute positive as in everything is on fire in a good way like it was in 2020 and 2021. But what we're saying is, as we live through 2023 and everything that we see versus what we lived through in 2022, which was barren, quiet, and nonexistent for most of these aspects of venture world, and things are moving in a positive direction. I guess, you know, we start with investment activity, and that's obviously the capital going into companies in our world, be it very early stage through to late stage. What we've seen anecdotally is that the early stage seed and Series A has always been humming over in each of these markets, in each of our key markets. You know, this year we're starting to see the later stage checks coming through, and I guess you see that a little bit in our own portfolio through the prism of Gringo and its Series C funding round, which is a quality round with a quality lead at a good valuation and up round from last time. Those deals are happening. You're also seeing with the money going into Creditas, more support for quality companies. I guess then we pull back to the PitchBook data, you know, for our four key markets of Brazil, Mexico, India and Indonesia, you know, incrementally in Q3, we're seeing that move net positive. Still a far cry from what we had in the bull market genre, but definitely directionally positive. Also from an exit point of view, and, you know, we like to enter, but we love to exit, and make money for our investors and, and move our NAV and our share price. We are seeing exits again, and now we can debate on how well these IPOs are going, the quality, the depth of the market, but once again, versus 12 months ago, it's night and day. IPOs are happening in the tech space, in the fintech space, you know, and the broader economy, and they're happening both globally and locally in the market that we play in. So we like this. You know, on top of that, we're seeing secondaries happening more and more. Quite a wide bid-ask spread still, but it's starting to happen. And then the M&A side of things, you know, that we've seen happen, you know, specifically in Brazil, the Pismo acquisition by Visa, we mentioned a few times, was big for the ecosystem there, and great to see global fintech leaders like Visa still writing checks at this point in the cycle. And we've seen it through the prism of our own portfolios with a couple of offers coming through the last nine months. Not the right offer at the right price, at the right time, but it's good to see, you know, those... More anecdotally, you know, from the VC fund point of view, that dry powder, which makes the whole wheel turn on the way in, puts more capital in the companies. We're seeing a number, of fundraisers from established fund partners that we work with. So it's generally a net positive message. It's incremental, it's gradual. It's a bit like what we're talking about on Brazil, very same ideology, but generally positive, for everything that we do. And from a share price point of view, this is the market ideology of where our share price has been moving versus our NAV per share. We're still bobbing around those levels of 50% ± discount to NAV, and as we've already explained, this quarter and the last few quarters, this is a very market approach to our NAV, a very realistic approach to our NAV. Closing discount to NAV, this is something we now put in each of our presentations I write about in most of my management letters, because it is, you know, it's something of great importance to us, of very, very important to our shareholders. We like to see ourselves almost as internal activists, in how we approach this. We're all markets people, we get it, we're very grateful to have, you know, fresh shareholders through our cap table of the likes of City of London and AVI, who invest in investment companies trading at a discount. We're working with them, we're talking to them, getting feedback on how to approach this, how to do something different more, and we'll keep on trying to do the right things until we do close that discount to NAV, and that's our purpose and that's our focus. I guess, specifically this quarter, what to mention, I speak to you from the U.S., we've been traveling here, seeing over 60% of our shareholder base this week, on top of that, meeting a range of new potential investors and also working with the investment banking community to continue to get our story out there at this point in the cycle. Also, you know, within that, we have our portfolio companies, and we have Sergio from Creditas, who's been out on tour, meeting investors for the benefit of his medium-term IPO story, which is planned for 2025, H1, I would think, at this stage. And actually this week we have Konfío from Mexico, David Arana, the CEO there, meeting some of our biggest investors in the city of Boston. So that's improving the IR, getting the message out there, showing off our best assets. That's consistent. It's increasing transparency as we go. You see it in the results deck today, you see it as we meet investors, put our companies in front of investors, you know, all the data points we're giving out there is increasing transparency. Then we'd like to think that it's performance within the portfolio that eventually feeds through to the closing out discount, through cycle. This is ongoing, this is what we're focusing on, and we're doing it for all the right reasons. One more slide before I wrap up, and this is just around capital position, that we are today. You know, we... From a cash point of view, we're sitting on $35 million, at the end of Q3. As Alexis mentioned, we invested an incremental $8 million in the quarter to Creditas and Gringo, and that was in budget. That's what we forecast, that's what we've done. We will be doing no more, this year. We've nothing on plan. This is very much focusing in the portfolio at this point in the cycle, and supporting your winners and making sure they're well placed to even win more as we look into 2024. We've moved the table or the chart on the top left to roll out to 2024. If we just assume costs and coupons, we will end 2024 with about $21 million of cash on balance sheet. That's assuming no new investing. At this point, we are not assuming to make new investments. Things can happen, things can change, but, you know, given the cash position, given where we're at, and given where our portfolio is based and biased in terms of the risk and reward of that portfolio is much different than it was in the past, with lower growth and path to profitability, and quite clear. And while some companies may want capital, the needs aren't there, that were maybe there, in the past, and we don't need to be that first check in there. We've been very clear on that. So that's the way we're kind of looking at our cash position, and it will take a lot to get cash out of our pocket to make that picture change as we look into next year. And then we look at our cash position versus our bond. This is something we think a lot about, just our overall balance sheet, our balance sheet structure, and the future of that, to maintain strong and, and one step ahead of the game. And we have a bond outstanding, which, it matures in 2025. It's a 500 million SEK bond, about $46 million at current FX rates. You know, the mix of how we approach this, obviously, our bonds are trading quite well, in the local market. Last print was nearly 103. And so unlike our equity, actually a very well trading, best security at this point in the cycle. The bond market, we've got a good relationship with that, and we've options around our bond and what we can do next in terms of, I guess on one level, you could pay back, on another level, you can roll, and then somewhere you could probably do a mix of both, as you look forward. I think there's a lot of work we do on the portfolio right now is around that exit evolution of some of the names. It is a healthier market, as I alluded to, in the venture capital slide. We do not wanna force anything because we don't need to, but definitely we are leaning in on exits for some of our—some of the names in the portfolio. And I'd like to think, well, there's confidence at, at best, that we can make exits happen by year-end 2024. There's very clear confidence we could force some exits before that in the secondary market. It's not something we don't want or need to do, but it's just good to have that background security, that you have near liquidity at hand should you need it. So that's the way we approach this. We're in a comfortable position with cash. We got some controllables, we got some decisions to make around our bond and rolling and paying back and exits and opportunities there, and that's more strategic decisions of how we do that over the next three, six, 12 months to put ourselves in a strong position as we look into 2024, and beyond. So to close off, just on the investment case and the outlook summary. Look, I think in general, despite the Q3 performance of markets and hence our NAV, it's been a positive year to date. And really for us, the positivity comes through the prism of our portfolio. And Creditas and Konfío are very well placed now at this point in the cycle because of all the hard work they've done in the last 18 months around costs, margins, path to break-even. Juspay and the structural growth there continues. We're very excited about that asset, and we keep on saying that irrespective of the Q3 NAV mark, which is comps driven. And then, you know, I mentioned a few names and names coming through in Gringo, TransferGo, and Abhi, but I could easily have added Nibo, Solfácil, et cetera, to that. And we're very comfortable with the quality of our portfolio and the value creation that will come through there. I think the NAV tailwinds are in place, by and large, and we're up 11% year- to- date. And the portfolio quality is one thing, balance is another. I think it's the right point in the cycle not to have a portfolio growing on average revenues of 100% year-over-year, but burning and having that at more 40%-50% and close to or at cash flow positive is the right place to be. Also, given our balance sheets, the risk-reward just fits nicely. I do like the positive trends we're seeing in the venture industry, and they're incremental, gradual, and positive. Our capital position, you know, as per last quarter and the quarter before, it's a comfortable position with controllables embedded. Like, you know, what are our strategic priorities today? You know, short- term, it's our balance sheet and it's our traded discounts. It's hard to look beyond that because that's where the biggest short-term value can be created for us and our shareholders. Long- term, it's all about investing in future winners in fintech and EM, but we wanna win the short- term before we win the long- term. I will stop there, and operator, I'd like to open up for questions at this point, please. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Please stand by while we compile a Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Priya Rathod from KBW. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi, thank you for taking my questions. I've got two, please. So the first one is on cash, and I know you touched on it in the report, on the presentation, sorry, just now. But in the report, you do say that, you know, you're comfortable with your cash position for... and it's sufficient for the next 12 months. And last quarter, you did speak extensively on how balance sheet management is the focus for you. So would you be able to get, you know, give a bit more color on, on the, on your thinking and what progress has been made since those comments last, last quarter? And secondly, it's again, following on from that, obviously, an exit would be an ideal situation. And, you know, Creditas is one of the companies which is one that you've given an update, you know, in the H1 of 2025. And, you know, you did say that if you, if you needed to force some exits if needed, but you'd rather not. One, which are the candidates, apart from Creditas, would be a potential exit? And do you think that you'd need to suffer a discount to the NAV if you did end up forcing an exit, or you- are you happy that the NAV would end up even in that scenario? So any color on those questions would be great. Thanks. Super. Thanks, Priya. Look, what I'd say is, you know, we're very focused on our balance sheet. It takes a lot of our time, and there's a lot of moving parts there. What's happened since the last quarter into this quarter? Look, on the bond side, our bond continues to trade up, which we like. We are leaning in to the bond market in Sweden, where we're, where our bond was issued. We're staying very close to our bond investors, our bond investment banks. We're attending a bond conference in November, effectively just setting ourselves up, to do something on the bond side should we want to and should we see fit ahead of that bond maturing.... So it's a bit like on the equity side, saying close to your equity investors, we're doing a lot of work on the bond side to be in a state of readiness to do something, and to do something is effectively to roll, or roll part of your bond and extend the duration. So that's just one aspect of it. The other aspect of it, obviously, is the area of paying your bond down, and this is, you know, from as a priority for incremental cash coming in versus the cash that we have today. And just on a list of priorities, you've got paying back your bond, you've then got buying back your shares, given where your shares trade today and the value you create from doing that, and then you've got new investments from a pipeline point of view. But, you know, on the exit front, you know, there's a lot of thought. Creditas has obviously sits at the top of our portfolio in terms of the size and shape, and it's the one that's been most vocal about moving towards IPO. And I guess of all the exit opportunities, IPO is obviously the most is the one that catches the most market attention. But what I'd say within the portfolio, you know, there's two names that have had leaned in offers, for those companies, from quality global institutions looking to purchase these companies in the last 9-12 months, and neither of which went anywhere because it wasn't the right time, and it wasn't the right offer. But that gives us confidence that broadly within the portfolio, we have assets which are very sellable from an M&A point of view. Also on the secondary market, which was barren, I'd say in 2022, it's starting to see signs of life. The bid-ask spread is quite wide. And what we're doing is we're, you know, we're leaning in where it makes sense to find out where the bid-ask spread sits with the names in our portfolio. So there's a lot of work going on there as well to make sure that we know where liquidity lies and at what price it lies at. We feel from an NAV point of view that we have our portfolio marked to market. I don't feel that we need to go out there and force anything today, given the options that we have on the bond side about rolling over, and we're just looking through the right things about short-term balance sheet management and long, long-term net shareholder value creation. So it's all in that balance. And that's why I say comfort with controllables, but the key decisions haven't been made yet of whether we go left or right or somewhere in between. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. We will now take our next question. Please stand by. Our next question comes from the line of Erman Keric from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe first a follow-up just on the exit market. Do you see any particular activity from other industrial players, either incumbent banks, perhaps, or kind of other tech players trying to consolidate? Look, there's a lot of... Erman, hey, there's a lot of activity out there, as in there's a lot of conversations being had, whether it is global banks looking at, say, Brazil at this point in the cycle, and global European banks are cash rich on high interest rates, looking for opportunity to expand into scale markets. Those kind of bigger conversations, the big global strategics, you know, the likes of, we said Visa made an acquisition in Brazil on payments front. Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, Adyen, et cetera, are leaning into certain places, but a lot of them with a discounted ideology in mind, as opposed to a price to perfection, ideology in mind. And within Fintech, I guess you're seeing a lot of M&A, but the M&A itself is, you know, the strong, you know, taking over the weak, as opposed to quality M&A, where both sides on a fair value basis. But I would say just the whole level of... And this is then even within cap table, shareholders talking to shareholders about passing positions left and right for certain price points. There's a lot more activity and conversations going on, and I guess that's where, you know, the Priya's question, you know, what's happened in the last quarter with us? We've just been busy in the mix with a lot of these conversations, creating optionality and options for us, our portfolio, and our shareholders, without wanting, I guess, without wanting to pull the trigger on any yet, because we don't need to, and we haven't had the right one to pull the trigger in a heartbeat. If not, we'll wait. Thanks. That's very, very helpful. Then a question on Creditas. I think both the company and you've been quite clear that priorities is profitability over growth. And it seems like they're making good progress on reaching towards that profitability towards the end of this year. But when we're looking at the portfolio, it's basically stayed flat now for a little bit of time. How should we think about that in 2024, 2025, when they've reached that profitability? Yeah, no, it's fair. Look, we, we kind of talk about this a lot in-house, and we talk about Creditas and, and even with some of our other companies, whereby, you know, you go from this, this, this window or period of breakneck growth, and it was growth at any price, and everybody got used to it. And then 2022 happens to start and everybody has to quickly reset and refocus on getting to cash flow positive or profitability, or reduce burn at a minimum, as they become master of own destiny and sustainable. Then you kind of get near to that point, which we're getting near to that point with Creditas and Konfio and a few others, and then you start to lean back and go: Well, where is the growth? Because we want it all. We want that profitability point, and we want the growth, because obviously markets want everything, all the time. And I guess with Creditas, it's kind of become a rite of passage, a promise to the board and our promise to shareholders that they will reach profitability. So that's been the priority, over all else, and growth has had to give away to that. Obviously, the portfolio is more mainly holding static, but the income statement's moving positively forward. I think what you'll see is them reaching that point, proving that point, and then what we're seeing in the macro rates coming off with Creditas, with its balance sheet strength, and a company that can put the foot back down on growth. And I'd like to think it's not breakneck speed growth, it's more reasonable, self-sustained growth, where you get that third... What we're seeing in something like TransferGo or Nibo at the moment, where instead of 100% growth, you're getting 30%-40% growth, whether it's balance sheet volumes, revenues, and you're getting cash flow positive on the bottom line. Not a lot of cash flow positive, but it's just self-sustaining, more realistic, still fast growth in any aspect, but not triple-digit. Thanks. That's very helpful. Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Speakers, please continue. Super. Look, thank you everybody for continuing to follow our story. Thank you for dialing in, to our quarterly conference call, and thank you for your general support to us, through the last 18 months, and indeed for some of you investors over the last 8 years. We are shareholders too. We are very much focused on that, getting the share price higher, closing that discount to NAV, you know, creating long-term value for shareholders continues to be at the top of our mind and as the focus of all our work today. So thank you again for listening in. If you need anything from our side, always feel free to reach out and we'll talk to you soon. Take care. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.