A very good morning to all of you. Welcome to CapitaLand Integrated Commercial Trust First Half FY 2024 Results briefing. CICT released our results this morning, and the materials are all uploaded on SGXNet and on CICT's website. Similar to what we have done for our full year briefing, we are conducting this session as a fireside chat instead of a formal presentation. Focusing on certain key themes and topics before we move on to the Q&A sessions. Before we start, we would like to introduce the panel. I am Mei Ping, the Head of Investor Relations, and in the center is our CEO, Mr. Tony Tan. On Tony's left is Ms. Jacqueline Lee, our Head of Investment. On Jacqueline's left is Mr. Lee Yi Zhuan, our Head of Portfolio Management. On Tony's right is Ms. Wong Mei Lian, our Chief Financial Officer. Okay. To kick off today's fireside chat, we would like to invite Tony to share with us some of the highlights of CICT's first half performance. Tony? Good morning. Hope you all have a little bit of time to digest the announcement this morning. Needless to say, I think we're quite pleased that we are able to deliver a resilient result in the first half. Bear in mind the performance of first half, number can be a little bit noisy. We have embarked on our AEI program in Gallileo from February this year, which means that we have no income from Gallileo from February onward. At the same time, we have been able to ride on a positive active rent discussion over the last 12 months or so, resulting in a higher reversion rate. That slowly will translate into an income stream. While we actively work towards our active portfolio, bear in mind that second half, January macro environment is a little bit uncertain. We will pin our strategy actively to ensure we try to de-risk as much as possible. Looking at some of the key metrics, I think it's been relatively stable other than the NPI, they have grown, which is backed by higher rental growth and also inclusion of Clarke Quay started to contribute. We also have been actively managing our costs, which is very important, resulting in NPI growth of 5.4% for the first half. Portfolio vacancy remain relatively stable. On and off you may see some kind of a movement here and there, but generally, I think we are actively managing our portfolio, planning ahead, not just the second half of the year, but also looking beyond 2024 to try to de-risk as much as possible, knowing that the environment out there can be highly uncertain. Our team will touch on later on as we move along. Other than the property level that we managed to secure a higher NPI, we have also stabilized our financing cost at around 3.5%, which is quite similar to first quarter. We are hopeful that with the general market consensus that we're beginning to see some easing of the interest rate, that hopefully it will translate into a positive outcome from an average cost perspective. Nevertheless, in July, we already announced that we did a bond issue. We did a 10-year placement at 3.75%. That replaced some of the debt that would be coming due in third and fourth quarter. On the passing level, I think it's just a marginal creep up. Importantly, also managing the short-term interest exposure is equally important so that holistically we try to maintain a reasonable stable overall average cost of our debt. Rental reversion, quite pleased that actually we managed to gain the confidence of our retailer. Very high retention rate, reasonably good rental reversion. We are clocking about 9.3% for the retail and 15% for the office. Thanks to the team who work very hard to ensure we are able to strike a reasonably good deal with our tenant, balancing the risk as well as the well-being of our own tenant as well. They need to survive to be able to do well in a very uncertain environment. Overall, I think we are quite pleased to achieve an outcome that we have shown here. As a result, I think the first half unitholders should expect to see a distribution of SGD 0.0543. Factoring the DRP, if you remember in the beginning of the year, DRP, it would have been about SGD 0.0548. If you look at sequentially, actually we are still also growing our cash flow on a sequential basis. We're trying to work very hard on the rest of the period this year as well as making sure we are able to secure a stable return in 2025 as well. With that, I pass on. Yeah. Mei Ping. Thank you, Tony, for the overall highlights. Maybe going to some of the specific. I think just now Tony touched on the positive rent reversions, which we have achieved for the first half of this year. I think the question will be that, are we likely to continue to achieve such positive rent reversion for the rest of 2024? Also whether you can share a bit on 2025. I think we are reasonably, I would say cautiously optimistic. I don't like to use the word, based on those discussion we are engaging with our tenant, we should end up higher in 2025. Nevertheless, I think 2024 should be higher as well. I think earlier we guided, we are looking at around high- single- digit. We stand by our high- single- digit. Hopefully we can outperform. I think that's the number we are looking at overall. That's for both the retail and the office. Yeah. Okay. Other than we have also been touching a lot on the growth from the portfolio, do you think now that it will be a good time for CICT to look at external growth opportunities? This one, I think is everyone's question in the mind, right? Certainly, I think as a responsible management, we definitely got to ensure that we are able to look at opportunity in the market. Also bear in mind, we want to be very prudent and be very disciplined in how we are going to deploy any kind of new investment. Compared to, let's say 6- 12 months ago, certainly the market becomes a little bit more constructive. We see how things flow from there. Naturally, when there are good opportunity, I think we would want to take a look. Yeah. Okay. I think now it's timely for us to move on to get Jacqueline to share with us what's happening and what is she seeing in the investment market in this first half. Okay. In the first half of 2024, we continued to see reasonably strong investment activity, both in Singapore and Australia, as evidenced by the larger ticket sized assets in both the retail and office space being transacted and also being put on the market. Of course, the flight to quality theme remains. In terms of pricing levels, I think for Singapore it remains resilient, whereas in Australia we continue to see some discounting, and as such, cap rates have expanded affecting asset valuations. Frankfurt office market has remained very, very quiet with very few transactions and very, very small deals. The huge gap between the buyer and seller expectations there remains. Even though interest rates have started to come off slightly in Europe, the market is still trying to find the right level, coming off a very low cost of borrowing environment that they had experienced before. However, prime office rents in Frankfurt are still holding up. Okay. Thank you, Jacqueline, for the sharing. Maybe I just want to add. Okay, sure. Certainly the investment activity seems to pick up a little bit compared to 12 months ago. We're still nowhere near back to the, in a way, pre-COVID days. There's a little bit of wait and see in the market that we're sensing, but you can feel that the vibe seems to be coming back a little bit, partly in response to a general less hawkish kind of a central bank tone, and then some of the central bank already started to cut rate. Generally, we feel that the market will take some time to come back. We'll observe the market carefully. Yeah. Thank you, Tony. Next, we are going to move on to capital management. I think question to Mei Lian will be is that, are you happy with our financial ratios as at the end of June? Okay, in terms of CICT's financial ratios, I think they are fairly steady and healthy set of numbers, and also reflect the current gearing level of around 40% range. Given the current interest rate levels, we hope to lower this leverage ratio over time. This could be from driving asset performance and in turn improving the asset values. We also look at selective capital recycling opportunities as and when they arise. This could also help us to give us the opportunity to lower gearing. Meanwhile, we will do our best to manage the overall cost with prudent capital and active cash management measures. Okay. Noted that actually most of CICT's debt expiring as at the 30th of June have been actually refinanced post June. We have actually made the announcement. What kind of interest rates are we seeing and what should we expect the average cost of debt to be by the end of 2024? Okay, we have addressed the bulk of our refinancing that's due in 2024. Almost 80% are either refinanced already or in advanced stage of loan documentation. We have recently issued 300 million 10-year fixed rate green notes at 3.75%. This would give you an indication of the interest rate levels that we are getting from the capital markets nowadays. With the refinancing at rates that's higher than our previous borrowings, we expect average cost of debt to be around the mid tier areas for FY 2024. Okay. We also have about 24% of our borrowings in floating rate. This could be a positive factor should the Fed cut rates. Also depending on the magnitude of the rate cuts. We do have a sensitivity that every 0.5% movement will move interest expense by about SGD 11.5 million per year for the floating rate debt portion. okay, I think there have also been concerns about spread of the debt and currency. the next question will be: What will be our percentage breakdown of our total borrowings in their respective currencies? We have about 80% of our borrowings in Sing Dollars. Even when we raise foreign currency bonds, we have swapped it back into Sing Dollars. The balance 20% is an equal split between Australian dollars borrowings and euro dollars. And this is largely taken to fund the investments of the overseas portfolio for natural hedging purpose. Thank you, Mei Lian. Yeah. I think now we move on to portfolio macro performance from Yi Zhuan. Yi Zhuan, the question would be, I think we noted from our presentation that the tenant sales per square foot for the portfolio growth, it's about 0.1%, and downtown sales is a slight negative in the first half of 2024. What do we look at in terms of tenant sales going forward in second half of this year? For CICT, we actually report on a per square foot basis for tenant sales. So the lower downtown sales we see here on a per square foot basis can be attributed mainly to the stabilizing of CQ post AEI. So if you look at the first half of 2024 against first half of 2023 on a quantum basis, actually the portfolio is up on 1.1%, where the downtown is actually up by 4.3%, whereas the suburban is down by 1.3%. So the suburban sales, when we see why there's those slight easing is really because of the ongoing AEI at IMM, which should improve with the progressive completion towards later part of this year, next year. So for the second quarter of 2024, increased outbound travel definitely play a part in impacting some of the tenant sales. On the other hand, we also do see government support programs like the climate voucher, the CDC voucher, which support consumer spending, particularly in some of our suburban malls. We are cautiously optimistic that second half of 2024, sales should still remain relatively healthy, supported by resilient domestic spending. As for, we do see tourist arrivals for the upcoming events such as F1 in September, as well as continued active promotion by STB. Okay. Maybe let me just add so that we explain why the numbers a little bit like that. Downtown, like Yi Zhuan was saying, we typically report on per square foot basis. In a way we measure the efficiency of the space. Downtown is a little bit lower because Clarke Quay is one component. We just opened up TOP. It's a stabilizing stage. Yeah, in the total quantum basis, actually the downtown outperforms suburban absolute reversion. Whereas suburban, conversely, the other way around for suburban because we have the IMM AEI. If you were to remove the space of IMM AEI, in fact, overall quantum is lower compared to what we reported on per square foot. Nevertheless, I think just give you some clarity. For us, we always track on a per square foot, because per square foot could give us an indication of where the health of the trading of our respective tenants. Thanks, Tony. Moving on to the next topic would be, I think the other information that we'll share on our slides is the office occupancy. Do we expect the CICT's office occupancy rates to improve over the next six months? Which geography's occupancy are we most concerned with? I think we, as anticipated and shared in our previous sessions, we do expect some volatility in our office occupancy this year. For Singapore portfolio, generally, the occupancy remains relatively healthy and above market. Some of the easing we see in some of our properties is really more transitional in nature. There's actually a lot of leasing inquiries, and we are in active discussions with a lot of the prospects, as well as engaging our tenants ahead of time for the upcoming expiries. As for the German Sorry, maybe I touch on a little bit on this. Actually the completion of Central Boulevard has also contributed this quarter to increase in vacancy rate for the CBD office. Subsequently, the secondary stock may increase also in the coming quarters because as you see, some of the large tenants start to move from their existing locations into Central Boulevard. Internally, we do still reiterate our view that in the midterms, the supply of new quality CBD stock is still relatively limited, and that should help to lend some support in our office portfolio in the longer term. As for the overseas portfolio, Gallileo is not actually in our calculations for the occupancy as it's currently undergoing AEI works. We are pleased to share that actually the committed occupancy for Gallileo has actually improved to 96.7%, up from 93% previously. Effectively, we have de-risked this asset from an occupancy standpoint. There will be definitely some submarkets, for example, our Frankfurt Airport district, as well as the North Sydney submarkets, which are a little bit more challenged with the elevated vacancy levels that we still see. These markets may take some time to regain footing, and backfilling of spaces in some of these assets will take time, in particular for Main Airport Centre, where we probably may see a little bit more impact in the vacancy in the coming months. We do expect a bit of longer decision-making in some of these for prospects. The situation that we see, like for example, longer fit-out periods and elevated incentives should persist in the coming quarters also. Nonetheless, our team is working hard on the ground. We do have recent refurbishments done to provide fit-out spaces, improving amenities, just to make sure that we help to improve some of the leasing momentums that we see in our portfolio. Okay. On a lighter note, where do we see demand at the malls and the offices in this second quarter? Okay. For second quarter alone, we secured actually more than 650,000 sq ft of new and renewed leases across both our retail and office portfolio. Of which about 110,000 sq ft of that is new leases. For the new retail leases, we signed mainly from trade sectors such as F&B, your fashion and accessories, as well as your beauty and health. This is actually quite in line with the inquiry levels that we do see in our portfolio. We also continue to see new to market interest coming from overseas. We see brands from China, Indonesia, Malaysia, and also other international brands. Thanks to our strong leasing team, we managed to secure some interesting concepts that's new to our portfolio as well as to the market. For example, in the second quarter alone, we see the opening of SUSHISAMBA in Capital Tower, Lola's Cafe at Tampines Mall, which is a win for those easties. Of course, we also see M&G Life, as well as HOKA and RCS. For office, the new leases we signed mainly so far this quarter is actually from real estate and property services. We have also investment and financial services. Probably it's not on the screen, but we do see the interest level indicated there. Probably just to give a bit more color, for some of these new leases and inquiries that we receive, they also include new setups as well as relocations. Okay. Thanks. Then, I think the last question for portfolio is, I think it's a trending question. Are we concerned with the increasing ease of access from Singapore to the shopping and the services at Johor Bahru in Malaysia? How are we mitigating this risk? I mean, generally, not just RTS, generally, when we look at the market, we do monitor opportunities and trends in these markets that we operate in, and also, of course, some of these evolving trends. Specific to RTS, it will definitely improve some of the access between Singapore and JV. While we expect short-term impact in terms of sales leakage, right? Given our portfolio of downtown malls and suburban malls, any impact we see is likely just going to be incremental in nature. Over the longer term, the effects on the various retail trades is probably going to vary, so it takes time to play out how the situation evolves. Nonetheless, we will fine-tune our malls positioning and trade mix, as well as we will have to work quite closely with our retailers, sorry, to make sure that they enhance their offerings to make sure that our malls remain differentiated. I mean, our asset management team has a very good track record so far in creating very vibrant destinations for our malls, retail, innovative retail concepts, experiential offerings. Definitely we'll continue to curate that diverse trade mix to ensure the relevance of our assets to our shoppers. One example I think we have seen already in play is actually our ongoing AEI at IMM, which will strengthen its positioning as the regional outlet destination and also the largest outlet mall in Singapore. On the other side of things, sorry, I also want to put things in context, right? The increase in cross-border traffic, right? Could also present us with opportunities, right? It's not always just threats, right? To really showcase our malls to tourists coming from Malaysia. While also potentially alleviating some of the manpower issues that are faced by some of our retailers as well as our suppliers. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Before we open up for Q&A, maybe Tony, anything you want to wrap up the session before we open? Yeah. Not much to wrap. Hopefully, we give you a little bit of flavor how we look at our business and how we're managing the risk and potential opportunity as well. What we are doing is to try to optimize our asset performance as much as possible, given a fairly competitive environment. At the same time also, headwinds that we face on and off. For us to ensure that CICT continue to be able to deliver sustainable return, naturally, we've got to plan way ahead, which is what we are doing, right? We have been quite proactively looking at our asset positioning, our renewal. We stretch out as much as possible. As we speak today, we are already looking at 2025 expiry, make sure that we're able to secure that stability going forward, so that as a base, we are able to maintain the kind of sanity in the portfolio. On and off, there may be opportunity for us to look at any kind of inorganic growth, but like all things, many hands has to clap, right? The market has to come back. Hopefully, we can recycle some capital. And then hopefully the opportunity that comes along fits in our portfolio. We will be tactical, and we will be strategic in our thinking, looking at short-term requirement for our investors, but also planting milestone along the way. Hopefully, give some stability, give some confidence to our very long-term shareholders. Yeah. So in nutshell, I think we've been doing that. Notwithstanding some of the challenges we face overseas, some of the assets, for example, MAC. Gallileo is the risk. Australia, I think specifically is 100 Arthur, which is a little bit more difficult, but we make some strides. When we bought over, it was about 60% occupancy. Today, we are close to 77%, around about there, almost 80%. So it's trending along the way, but headwinds in Australia. The other two assets generally in a better shape. 101 Miller, it's okay. I mean, location-wise, fantastic. Although it's in North Sydney, but it's prime. And we're putting a little bit more effort to ensure we are ready when market return, right? Which is why in one of the slides I can show them the uplifting of the lobby, giving the residents there in our building a nice feel-good factor that befit a premium-grade building, and yet offering at a very competitive rate compared to a new supply that come to the market. The other one in 66 Goulburn is a different story. It's very resilient. In fact, we are close to 100% occupied. That's in the main core CBD, but at the southern end. So I would say, the overseas assets, we have to deal quite actively with 100 Arthur. In Germany, we have to deal actively for MAC. I think there's a bit more headwind over there. But nevertheless, we will deploy the same tactical and strategic thinking to make sure that our assets are in a good position, which means that we can't compromise on the quality, can't compromise on safety. Because ultimately, you want to bring the residents back to the building, which a lot of companies are trying to do that. You need to have a building office space that befit the environment that warrants them to make the effort to come back to the office. So along the way, hopefully, we can get it right. Perhaps even the overseas asset could be the icing on the cake '25, '26, for example. Hopefully, market return. while we stabilize the other part of portfolio, that could, in fact, may potentially give us an uplift in the future. I think, in short, I hope we can have a little bit, pictorial wise, some clarity how we are planting different milestones, different seeds in our journey to try to drive performance. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Tony. Yeah. after hearing from the panelists, we will open for the Q&A session. Hold on. Yes, you will raise your hand, and then we will hand you a mic. then we also ask that you keep your questions to two each time. We will come back to you when need be. for those joining us on the webcast, you can type your questions in the chat box, and we will ask them on your behalf at the appropriate time. yes, first question. Yes, Brandon. Daphne, the one behind. Oh, okay. Okay. Yew Kiang, yes. I'm still Yew Kiang, so not Brandon. Yew Kiang from CLSA. Two questions. First one is on your margins. You managed to do quite a good job on this. going forward, should we expect this kind of level? When you recontracted some of your property management services, is it for the next two years, three years? that's the first question. Second is on your downtown mall tenant sales. Second quarter seems to be big, and you sort of attributed that to space, the new space created from some of the AEIs. Is it purely due to CQ, Clarke Quay, or should we also expect a sort of downtrend when you start to do some of your other AEIs, for example, IMM that's coming up and all this? Yeah. You want to address the second question? Okay. Probably I address the second question first. Of course, there's a lot of different factors that adds into a downtown dip, right? I would say that my majority is really because of the CQ AEI post-completion, right, when we take in the full NLA back. The increase in sales, because some of the for example, we have some of these pop-up event shops. We have some of the tenants who will also take a bit of time to ramp up in terms of their sales. It's just a matter about your sales catching up to your NLA. Your NLA impact is definitely more immediate rather than while your sales catch up. Notwithstanding that, if we do have to drill down a little bit of some of the sub-trade categories, right? Of course, there are some sub-trade categories in some malls probably see a little bit of negative. But in the context of the downside, it's not really the main contributor. Like for example, we are spotting equipments, probably in one of the malls came off a little bit because they were just doing so well last round, last year, right? We also see that when a lot of people actually did a lot of their shopping for travel essentials last year. And so when it comes to this year, after that they-- This year is the part that they travel. Last year is the part where they buy to travel, right? So some of these things will come off. If we look at the AEI of IMM Building, I think that's why we shared earlier that if you look on a quantum basis, there's a little bit of impact to the sales for IMM Building. But if you strip out the IMM Building impact, definitely then if you see on quantum basis, our base doing actually okay, I suppose. Yeah. Maybe just add to the point I mentioned in question two, right? Certainly, certain trade may be moving through a little bit of adjustment. I think June has been a bit quiet. I'm sure you all can feel it yourself. There's a lot more travel, June holiday. You can see that generally the mall is a little bit quieter, and hence I think the sales does get impacted, whether it's downtown or suburban. Certain trade we are watching carefully. Like you say, it's part and parcel of adjusting the trade exposure. And we think that if we need to make a major change, naturally, we'll do that. The other thing to bear in mind, maybe you want to show the slide on the trade sales. There's a slide. Which one? The trade mix? The trade category sales. A few things that sort of give us a bit of rethink. For instance, you see the education, why it's a big jump, 8%. It came from nowhere. In a way, it's a little bit reflective of some of the things that are a little bit more resilient. As you start to think about how you want to deal with any kind of sales leakage that may come, right? As a result of Sing Dollar, people travel a bit more. Perhaps the education one now seems to stand out quite strongly. There'll be others that I think we'll think through. On the contrary, the home furnishing seems to be a bit soft, and that's across our downtown, suburban. It could be because the general property market has been also going through a little bit of a softness. I would think that is a bit more cyclical. We may not overreact, but we'll see how things goes from there. I think on the question of margin, maybe we're hopeful that we can maintain it. In fact, 2025, we are already locked in. We hedged when the rate came off, energy rate, for the entire 2025, looking at more than 10% savings from a tariff, right? Hopefully that will translate into a proper savings in our utility bill overall. The new PMA is certainly has kick in. It does help to remove some fixed cost element, the leasing activity. That fixed cost will come off. The variable cost may go up depending on our level of activity in the leasing. Overall, I think directionally, we should probably see over time, a more efficient way of managing the property expense. Hopefully that over time will scale, will translate into even better saving. I think we will certainly aim for improving margin over time. Thank you. I think now we are with Brandon Lee from behind last row. Hey. Morning, Tony and team. Brandon from Citi. Just two questions. The first one would be, can you share with us your first half 2024 occupancy costs? At this stage, obviously we have seen sales slowing down and your rent reversion has been so strong. Do you think that we can really normalize back to the pre-COVID level of 17%-18%? That's my first question. The second question would be on your capital recycling. We have obviously seen a lot of assets being sold over the past six months, but it's still pretty quiet on your front. Do you think it's a matter of the quality of your assets, or is it you're being a bit too aggressive on your asking prices? Yeah. Thanks. On occupancy cost ratio, we are about mid 17% overall. Downtown is a bit higher. It's still sub 20. Suburban, we are looking at 16%, thereabout. Blended about 17.5%. I think it's a level that's maintainable. Key thing, like you rightfully mentioned, our tenant need to trade well. That's something we are putting a lot of effort to ensure our tenant be able to trade well. We have different tools that we can deploy to at least make that higher possibility, right? We'll do that, yeah. About 17.5%, I think is a reasonably okay level. On the question about capital recycling. Generally, I think the market, of course, has seen some pickup activity. Like all things for deals to transact, there has to be a meeting of minds. We will watch the space. You asked whether we are asking too high a price. We'll be very pragmatic. I think it's more important to think about not just recycle back to the portfolio. Obviously, it will help on your overall gearing and your interest expense. Also to think about replacing the income stream, which is more long-term in nature. We have to factor that all in together. Of course, ultimately, the investment committee must switch on again, right? At the moment, I think it's a little bit on and off. It's very reactive to the market condition. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Melvin, I saw you raise your hand, Melvin. One last question. Okay. Derek here. Hey. Morning, Tony. Derek from DBS. Just two questions. For your sales efficiency for retail in your portfolio, I'm just wondering, could you give us a quantum number for suburban and also downtown, just to get a sense where sales are, if possible? You can share that? I think we don't share. Don't share. Yeah. Yeah. Don't share, all in. Okay, this first question then. Anyway, the second question is on office. I understand the market's very focused on IOI Central Boulevard, right? In the background, we have Keppel South Central also completing 4Q. I'm just wondering whether, looking at your portfolio and your expiry profile, should we turn a bit more defensive on office, or do you think you're still fairly optimistic about take-up rates, reversions, et cetera? Yeah, just these two questions. Okay. I think fundamentally, CBD stocks has a limited supply. That's a given, right? Any new supply coming up, most likely will be a refresh, upgraded, or even redeveloped new supply from old stock. That's more at a fundamental level. In terms of where they are located, there'll be pockets of competition naturally. Keppel, that's one that's closer to Tanjong Pagar. The precinct's slightly different. Maybe it compete a little bit with our Capital Tower, that location. Location-wise, obviously, we would have a little bit advantage. We will factor that into how we look at engaging tenants. It's also a question of whether the tenants are new tenants coming in or existing tenant who are looking at a renewal, and that they are considering options. In today's setting, I think most tenants, especially for relocation, the total cost is one major factor. Total cost of relocation. Bearing that in mind, when we look at how we should engage with our tenants when talk about renewal, we have to be pragmatic. Overall, striking the right balance from a positive reversion. Hopefully, we want to grow our income. At the same time, looking at their total cost perspective. Sometimes if they need more space, ability to provide total solution in a short to medium term, that could be also one advantage we may have. Yeah. I think we're dealing with, in many fronts. We have a good portfolio of offerings, both in the core CBD area and also at the CBD, Raffles City, Funan. Even if you considered Atrium, which is today fully occupied, it's Orchard Road location. We have CapitaSky, which is very new. Right? We would try to manage as much as possible to retain our talent within our ecosystem. Yeah. Maybe I just touch on just a bit. building a bit on that, right? definitely retention has always been one of key priorities that we are doing. if you look at our retention rate, it's actually pretty healthy. We have actually engaged quite advanced with a lot of our 2025 expiries. In fact, the good thing is some of the expansion requirements are also coming through from some of our existing tenants. If we look at just the first half alone, in terms of net expansion within our portfolio, net downside actually is quite evened out quite a fair bit. I think generally that bodes well. If you have the opportunity to really visit some of the newer buildings, what Actually, if you look at it, even if I take my CapitaGreen, I take my CapitaSky, generally the quality of assets, it's not inferior compared to some of the new builds. I think generally specifications is one thing. Location, our locations are very good, so that helps to build in some resilience. I think the other bit that we are differentiated is really that we have that whole suite solution. a tenant can come in, they can look at a flex space, core space together in all sorts of combination, and we have a portfolio that they actually can expand within. in that sense, if we look at some of the new deals that we are taking, I think at the start I mentioned about us getting some new tenants coming through. We do see new setups as one. We also actually see a lot of relocation, right, from previously like Central, Paya Lebar Quarters, and a few other locations coming into city, and they are actually choosing our properties. by and large, I would say we are actually quite okay. Yeah. Thank you. Maybe we give to the other side first. Yes, Shane, go ahead. I just want to follow up on the office question. For reversions, given that your rents are north of SGD 12, probably above market already, just wondering what kind of reversions are you expecting in the second half? Even if it's flat or negative, you will still be high- single- digits for full year. Yeah. I think just generally what we are guiding, high- single- digit, even though it may be lower than 15%, but I think we'll likely end up high- single- digit. Yeah. Right. for second half, it's probable that- It will be lower We see flat reversions. Potentially, yeah. Potentially flat. Yeah. Okay, cool. In which case, we do have a slide that shows the expiring rents for the rest of this year. Even, as we talk about rental reversion, we are also including leases that are expiring 2025. '25, yeah. Yeah. Because you have to start engaging them now. Yeah. Yeah. Looking at 2025 expiring rent, I think generally they are still I mean, that's the slide, yeah. Still slightly below market. Having known that what we explained earlier, including Yi Zhuan talking about how we engage our tenants, right? We will be very cognizant now. We want to ensure that we keep it within our ecosystem. Yeah. Depending on the budget overall of the tenants. I think I would say that we have to be careful about this, right, for the second half, only because of the competitive landscape that we're operating within. As I alluded earlier, towards the end of this year, what we will expect is to see that the secondary stock that will come up, and how the landlords of those secondary stock reacts to the market. If they are actually able to hold on to rents, actually all is good. If they start to go dive on rents or drop in rents, then of course, we have to react accordingly. I would say that high singles is still a good guidance for a year-end. Of course, on a case-by-case basis, potentially some of the leases we may have to be competitive. Depends on how the situation goes. We're looking always as a basket. Yeah. Whether retail or office, this is a basket. There could be some with very solid retail reversion because these are catching up. Yeah. There'll be those that will take a little bit of position, maybe just flat. We'll move on. For retail reversion, second half, you're still expecting high- single- digits, right? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Yes, Joy, you have the mic. Joy from HSBC. I just want to follow up also on office. Could you just share, in terms of demand, what are the typical size you're seeing at the moment? also you mentioned about sort of being competitive. Are you likely to throw in more tenanting incentives, including sort of renovation costs just to help the overall cost for relocation? Yeah. That's one. Yes. Second question, just specifically on your JV line, there's quite a bit of a drop year- on- year. Which one again? JV, and joint ventures. Oh, JV. JV. JVs. Can I assume that's entirely due to interest rate increase? for that tranche, is that a floating rate? Thank you. Interest cost, you're talking about? JVs. First one will be JV. Second question, can you repeat? Couldn't hear. Your JV line. The JV line actually came off quite a bit, right? Contributions from JV. Yeah, from JV. How much? Is that entirely due to interest cost increase or is there other factors in that? Okay. You want to take the first- I think second question. Okay. Generally, it's both effort to retain some cash for AEI. We have some work in overseas, including Australia as well as MAC, for example. The Gallileo obviously is funded externally, but the contribution coming back, distribution, I think we retain a little bit of cash over there just to make sure we have some capital to look at refreshing the assets. Yeah. In terms of the demand for office, generally what we see is smaller size tenancies. If you talk money to markets, I mean generally 3, 5, 10,000 gross feet. Anything above that is a bit harder. Nonetheless, we do see some expansion requirements, especially within our portfolio. Maybe just some examples, like one of the demands that we actually saw is actually from a co-working or service office kind of space. They initially was taking just about 20 desks, but now they are looking at 5,000 sq ft of space. There's current demand that we do see a lot more in the market compared to the really big deals now. Which I think from a portfolio perspective, it works generally quite okay, right? Half a floor, one quarter of a floor. Because that's the kind of vacancies that we do have now mostly within our portfolio. Okay. Thank you. I think Xuan. Sorry. Oh, okay. In terms of the incentives, I would say that for Singapore, we don't really have to go all out yet in terms of incentives. Generally, it's really the general fit out, probably a little bit more fit out period. Rather than giving incentives for tenant fit out, which is not our primary, what we may look at is, I think generally, I would say probably generally in the market, is that we also see some tenants, actually, landlords, sorry, starting to do fitted out suites to help overcome that bit. Actually, when we see some of the rents going up at some point, right, some of these rents could be because they kind of price in that fit out into the leases for the tenants. That's what we see in the market, a little bit more gaining popularity, to help some of these tenants who have a bit of CapEx constraints, right, to kind of make that case to do the relocation. Thank you. Xuan. Hi, Tan Xuan here from Goldman. Two questions on capital recycling. Looking at your gearing and also size of deal, is it fair to assume that we should see divestment before any acquisitions come through? Second question is on acquisitions. In terms of opportunities, can you walk us through what's more interesting in terms of overseas versus Singapore and also sponsor versus third party? Thank you. First question, not easy to answer because it all depends on you. We can't time everything to in sync that perfect. That is your blue sky. That's our blue sky environment. Recycle back, you get a capital back. we can't predict things will go in that kind of sequence. Certainly, monetizing part of the portfolio is an important source of capital for us to look at redeployment. Besides looking for potential other equity partner, whether it's in the public market or in the private market, there will be other source of capital. put them in line nicely, quite difficult task to manage. in the ideal scenario, yes, the sequence should be that way. again, I don't think we can make a prediction how that sequence will pan out. Yeah. Opportunity overseas, I touch a little bit maybe, and I'll pass on to Jac. I think market overseas generally is still trying to find a footing, right? Overall, I thought in general. Of course, we only have Germany and Australia, these two market. In term of the journey, Australia may have come a longer way in term of how the market has reacted and naturally some price adjustment. Australia rate unfortunately stayed very elevated. So on an overall basis, this is how we look at deals, right? On a net, after tax, after cap ex cash flow, where do they land? Vis-a-vis, so what we can do outside Australia, whether in Singapore. So I think we have take into consideration that factor. Germany, unfortunately, I think they are harder hit by the war effect. And as a result, I think the economy is going through a tough time. Tougher time, in fact, probably tougher time than Australia. So I think we need to see the economic cycle gaining a little bit more momentum before we see some kind of stability over there. But overall, you can find that the investment market in Germany is less active. Definitely very, very few transaction went through. I think for Australia, although we have seen discounting, probably may not have totally bottomed out. So we are still watching because like Tony said, interest rates remain high, even though their yields have come up a bit in terms of what has been put on the market and being transacted. But I think we are still watching to see some kind of stabilization. I think the interest rates remain high, and I think even the RBA, right, said that they were not going to reduce interest rates for the next six months. So I think interest rates remain elevated. For Germany, of course, it has come off slightly, but really there are no transactions in the large deal space. So especially like in Frankfurt, right, people are not putting things out on the market, and so there's really no benchmark or pricing level. It's quite difficult to say. Once if there is going to be some kind of, let's say, for sale or something that comes along, we might see some kind of activity coming in. So far, everyone seems to be holding up well, and so because of no transactions, actually there's no pricing level that has been established at the moment. I think for overseas markets, it's a bit more challenging. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Yes. Morning. Dexter from Bloomberg. Just two questions for Yi Zuan first, and then for Tony. Yi Zhuan, on office specifically, in terms of foreign firm demand, in terms of office spaces, is it still holding up or has it come down at all? And in terms of the retail side, in terms of both tenant mix, on the tenant side, do you see demand more coming from smaller scale foreign brands now? And in terms of, I think Tony mentioned a little bit of it just now, but in terms of demand from consumers, has the interest in luxury spending, things like that, come down at all? For Tony, two questions. On the pricing gap, do you see that coming down at all in Singapore? Obviously, you mentioned a little bit of that just now, but I was wondering, do you see that resolving at all in your favor or in terms of buyer's interest at all in the next few months? In terms of the one broader question, obviously you mentioned a little bit about Malaysia and stuff like that, but what is the biggest risk you see right now for us? Or what's keeping you up at night right now? Is it Malaysia? Is it interest rates? Is it war? Or what's keeping you up? Thank you so much. Okay. That's three questions. pricing generally, I think it's been stable in Singapore. In fact, if we look at some of our peers have reported, in a way, the valuation of their portfolio to a large extent reflects, to some extent, the stability of the value of the assets. I think our peers have all reported a higher valuation in Singapore portfolio, especially. In term of transactable market, there have been a few transaction they've gone through. every transaction very different. Very hard to say this is a very rich price. You buy at 4% or 4.2% yield. buyer come in with a different view. also the nature of the buyer may be motivated quite differently. I would say, I'll split into the two, the retail and office asset. I would say retail asset, on a net basis, has been very stable. The transactable kind of view possibly already reflected into those transaction that you've seen in the last 12-18 months, they're done by our peers. I would imagine that level would be probably what a market would expect. Yeah. On the office side, range also quite wide. Also our peers have saw at 3.8%, bearing in mind it's a different kind of dynamics. the nature of the buyer is quite different. They're looking at a bit of a value at play. we have to factor in, and they're actually selling above valuation ultimately still. the valuation cap is not any major change from the year before. I would say, in a nutshell, office has strong footing. because of where the absolute yield, then it depends on what kind of buyer are prepared to come in. Yeah. specific kind of buyer. Sorry. Okay, Dexter. Looking for specific kind of buyer for your properties then. Like family office or- Office and retail are quite different, right? We definitely will engage the potential investment market pragmatically, what kind of thing they're looking at. Bearing in mind also what I mentioned earlier, how we should look at redeploy the capital. We try to find the right point where we want to do a deal. Naturally, I think the guiding principle is that it has to be something that makes sense for us and also makes sense for the buyer. Yeah. The buyer motivation can be quite different. Yeah. On the- I just- Oh, sorry. We just want to add on the yield, right? Yeah. That's reported for all these deals, right? sometimes it's actually quite difficult to compare property to property or transaction to transaction because the yield that's reported is at a particular point in time. it really depends on whether that property is under rented at that point in time. Whether there's additional enhancement work that can come in, maybe in the next few years. but that yield that's reported is that particular point in time. it's not that like for like, when we compare tenants' properties, property to property. Yeah. Okay. I think there's one more question, is what keeps you awake? Yeah, Malaysia. Keeps me awake. Many things, right? As in the volatility of the market is certainly keeping us awake. Like I said, we're trying to deal with any kind of headwinds that come from operational level, and we actively try to ensure we are able to still drive revenue growth, at the same time manage the cost effectively. That's kept us on our toe. That means you can't slip. You can't slip, S-L-I-P, not S-L-E-E-P. This is a broad picture. As you know, REIT is a yield product. We are very cognizant of the fact that investors, in fact, especially our retail investors, are highly dependent on our distribution. I think that's something we bear. On our trips, and try to be able to deliver the kind of distribution, as stable, as much as possible. At the same time, over time, we can drive growth. That alone itself keep you awake. Yeah. Thanks, Tony. We'll have a question from sorry, we'll have Mervin to answer then, we have to go to online and come back to you, Gaurav. You want to address the Malaysia change of shape? Maybe just you want to add. Probably just touch on a little bit on the demand side of things, right? office and retail, I'll touch on office quickly. For office, I think generally financial services, investment services, professional services, these are still the drivers of most of the demands we see. Interestingly, we also see that, for example, in our portfolio, we do get some requests coming from overseas, kind of like co-working operators again. That's one area that we look at things. As for the retail side, generally a lot of the new to markets, still F&B from Chinese brands coming in, but we also do see international brands. Just that, unfortunately, for the international brands, they take a little bit longer time because for them, sometimes they have to find the right partners first. They have to find the right location before they can actually progress. The lead time in terms of conversion to pursue and convert takes a little bit longer. For the lux brands, of course, I think we see how the lux companies have been performing generally this past couple of quarters, right? In terms of expansion, it's something that probably they may not be as aggressive in this coming year or so. We will continue to watch this space. Yeah. Okay. Mervin? All right. Mervin from JP Morgan. Maybe we can touch on asset level performance and outlook. Maybe Bugis Junction and Bugis+, we see a lot more office being built in the area, potentially more upcoming residential. Can you touch on opportunities for that property? Raffles City seems to be doing quite well on those occupancy side. Can you talk about the upside for that property with that level of MICE activities coming through hotel performance? For Junction 8, it's not that close to the Malaysian border, but it's closer than your downtown properties. I know based on personal experience, the immigration clearance is significantly much faster this year. Any AEIs for that property? My other question would be electricity costs. What have you been able to sign this year and then next year as well? Thanks. Okay. I think last one I earlier mentioned, maybe you missed it. This year is more or less- I know it's down 10%, but do you have the absolute rate in terms of watt per hour? I don't think we'll share the absolute rate- Don't share because the other component is the consumption, so we can only just get a general trend. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Basically, I said, broadly, I think there are opportunities in those assets we are looking at. I can let Yi Zhuan address specific assets. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. I hope I remember all the assets that's listed there. For B+ and BJ, definitely, we do expect some of the shopper traffic as well as the sales to improve. We are working with some of the retailers to kind of reposition their offerings to capture that, improve the kind of catchment area that we see in that area. Of course, we all are quite aware that GuocoLand's office tower has came up. The residential part is probably, if I'm not mistaken, end of this year or next year, sometime then. Of course, that will be another bit of a boost for some of the retail. Probably I would draw attention to B+, right? If you look at B+, we recently have actually opened up HaveFun Karaoke. I'm not sure how many of us managed to go, but it's really changing the kind of sales performance. It's doing very well sales. It also improves a lot of the traction in terms of the shoppers that we get, especially in the nighttime. That will actually help to improve the performance of the asset. You'll inject a bit of new life, right, to that floor, to the upper floor. In the past, it's been relatively quiet, but now I think on most Thursday, Fridays or Saturdays, if you go, it's pretty well packed. Hopefully we can actually bring the energy, continue to improve on the energy for B+ and BJ in the coming quarters when the rest of the residential kind of start to move in. Yeah. For Raffles City, I think it's generally it should be still busy. Of course, there's a little bit of a huge jump in the past year's performance. It will stabilize. I think we will have to see how things pan out in the second half of the year. Definitely, we do think that there's room for improvement. Of course, the second quarter, we do see a little bit like news on the room rates, easing off a little bit. In terms of occupancy, easing off a little bit. I think it's more of a function of the quarter, and hopefully in the second half of the year when we have F1, we have other major events coming through, that will actually help to improve the hotel performance as well as the retail performance to that. Did I miss out any property? I think there's one more. J8. J8. Okay, sorry. What about J8? Any AEI opportunities? It's resilient. I would say that J8, generally the traffic performance has- I mean, your other REIT things, they're going to do some AEIs there. Yeah the competitive set may- Yeah Come a bit more. It may do some AEIs there. We'll see what we'll do there. Yeah. Yeah. I think J8 is a very unique location. It's suburban. It's not too far from town. Fairly wealthy catchment overall. Bishan location. Yes. Well-connected transportation node. A lot of things looks seem in the checkbox. One of the weaknesses is a little bit subscale. I think we are trying to think along that line whether we could really scale it up. That will take some time. Otherwise, the footfall is strong. We want naturally to translate that footfall into conversion. That's more important, yeah. Overall, it's a bit subscale, yeah. For one that's so well located with two MRT line below, yeah, I think it's a bit subscale. We'll see. Beyond J8, there are other assets that we also think about in the future, downtown office, where we can do AEI, and also even in other suburban retail mall. We need to plan it out carefully. Like earlier I mentioned, planting milestone. Hopefully, that would give some stability income. Each time we do AEI, sometimes it'll be affected. Just like IMM affected the sales, affected the rental. Overall, we know that it's in a stronger footing post the conversion, and give us a stronger competitive edge. Just a very small point. This is really about planning out how we are going to do our AEIs for the different things. One is, what are the other ongoing AEIs we have? I think the other part that we have to consider also, sometimes it's not just us, right? It's also the authorities, what plans they have in the precinct, and how we should time some of these things a little bit better. At the right moments, we will share our plans, yeah. Thank you. We need to go to the online questions first, Gulal, I'll come back to you, yeah. Okay. The question is from Donald. The first question, "How much is CapitaSpring contributing, and when will contribution stabilize? You want to take it? Okay, in terms of the DI contribution, for first half, this is in the range of SGD three-plus million. Right? I think largely, contributions have stabilized. Okay. The next question is from Ming Liang and Hong Wei. It is about, with the anticipated higher gearing limit of 50% by MAS, whether we expect acquisitions. Would there be any update to CICT's capital management policy Yeah given that, yeah. I think we want to ensure CICT is on a strong footing for long term. Maintaining the right financial metrics is critically important. Notwithstanding MAS relaxing, in fact, for the borrower to be able to borrow all the way up to 50% on a reduced ICR. We remain very disciplined. Not forgetting our stakeholder involved, not just equity investor, we also have debt investors. Naturally, they are on the opposite side. All right? On a sustainable level, and given what earlier I mentioned, what are the plans we have from upgrading our building, we need capital. We need to maintain certain level of flexibility so that when we embark on any kind of AEI work, which is value accretive and DPU accretive over time, that we have the capacity to do it. Yeah. It is important that we want to maintain the discipline. Yeah. Okay. The cooling as a service. The question from Hong Wei is that we have actually shared that we are undertaking cooling as a service. How much cost savings do we expect for this utilities and expense? Also for the other initiative that we have, the electric vehicle charging stations, does it help to increase CAPA income, and how much margin is there from such charging stations? Okay. I'll just leave the question first. I'll leave to Yi-Zhuan to talk about the rest. I think overall, when we start to look at cooling as a service, I think we came with a view that there are few things we need to ensure CICT remain the premier investment vehicle. That's when we look at how we treat our assets, looking at sustainability angle. Those are all very important elements. What that means when translate that from operational level, your building has to be very efficient. What drives efficiency? Energy consumption. Right? Energy consumption is a factor of many things, including the equipment, maintenance of equipment. While we look at cooling as a service, the primary driver is really to think about, can we consistently maintain the efficiency in a prolonged period of time? We know that we can do a good job, but perhaps there are even better operators out there who do this as a [Foreign language], who can be even more efficient. To some extent, when we start to look at who are the vendors can provide services, we realize that actually there are a lot of people who are out there who could provide the certainty of energy efficiency to maintain a high level of green building status for our portfolio. That's a starting point. Whether that translates into real savings, I think over time it should, because it all depends on the CapEx cycle. Let's say if it's a much older building with very aging equipment that may come closer to the end of cycle, your immediate conversion into that could mean a lesser savings. We could have done it ourselves, the immediate savings from a replaced M&E equipment accrue to ourselves immediately. But if it's equipment that's somewhere in between, that's a little bit difficult to say. The CapEx required to upkeep that is a moving target. The capital that needs to deploy and the cost of that capital is also a moving target. It's something a little bit more challenging to manage. If we can able to get a service provider to basically de-risk that, then technically, in the long run, we have more stability in maintaining the efficiency. Overall, based on what we are contracted, we do see a net savings, given what we have to pay the service provider and our so-called interest expense that's been avoided. When you do your equipment upgrade and you bear your CapEx yourself, essentially, you've got to carry the cost of the CapEx. Now you actually move out to the third party. That's how the concept works. Okay. You want to talk? EV charging. Energy. I will say that probably the EV charging is not so much. I think starting point is not so much about income per se. It's really about making sure that our assets remain relevant in front of some of these things. We do see the EV car population actually coming up quite a lot. In fact, I think one of the top sales has been BYD over the past months. There's the need for us to then actually progressively expand our EV parking lots and facilities to make sure that our shoppers, our office tenants, are able to actually use some of these amenities when they're in our property. I would say that that one is actually the primary driving at this point. Yeah. Thanks, Yi-Zhuan. Do we have the last question, it's from Amanda. It's asking about CQ at Clarke Quay's performance after the AEI. I think it's asking about performance in terms of tenant sales, WILL. You want to- Yi Zhuan or Jamie? Sorry. Let me see. CQ. Maybe I'll start off first, then you can. To clarify, we don't share specific tenant sales. Yeah For individual asset. CQ, I would say, going through a stabilization stage. If you have visited CQ, we call CQ at Clarke Quay, by the way, CQ at Clarke Quay. It's actually the holistic precinct, including the current redevelopment work at CanningHill. The whole micro market, to a large extent, need to be anchored by that product coming on the stream, and it's not ready yet in 2026. While CQ has completed all our AEI work, there will be this sporadic need to ensure we sustain a regular footfall. Curation of tenant naturally is very important. I'm being very honest, not all tenants will perform well. During this in-between period, [inaudible] will think of whether is it a transitory kind of issue that we need to deal with, or is it really a mismatch in term of trade mix in Clarke Quay? We have to do that adjustment, potentially. Once that CanningHill thing come on stream, you would naturally have a little bit of base load footfall. Residents, hotel, service residents will create some kind of stability. The vibes and dynamics will be quite different, right? Although we say that we wanted to de-risk a little bit Clarke Quay in the past, not wholly relying on the night trade. Clarke is still very well known around the world as the place to go for your night activity, right? Entertainment, clubs, disco. With that in mind, the position of Clarke Quay, and also with the more living resident component that's next to it in CanningHill, that curation of what goes there is really a little bit of art and science. And also factoring sometimes what authority require us to put in place. You can't definitely have very loud music close to where residents are living. We have moved further away, closer to the car park location, where the current Zouk location is located, closer to that early part of the entrance coming from the Southeast Road. Northeast Road, I think. That location. You can have a little bit louder music, vibes. Moving towards near residential, there's some kind of a constraint. The overall curating that makes to get it at the right response, I would imagine we need one or two cycle. Post-completion of AEI, which is what we are doing now. At the same time, post-completion of CanningHill, where your base load will start coming in. In a product like Clarke Quay, it's really people begets people. It's a thing where you start drawing people, you got the kind of crowd coming in has to be the kind of crowd that we effectively can do conversion. Right. Currently, actually, the footfall has improved quite a fair bit. It's not back to the pre-COVID days, for sure, because the nightlife part is still a little bit quieter, generally, over there. It's coming back, and hence we want to sustain that. The crowd coming back are also quite different. We have a lot of tour bus coming in, but very transitory, transient kind of crowd. Doesn't immediately lead to conversion. What we need to imprint in most of our, in a longer-term basis, visitors' mind, whether it's foreign or local, is that this place actually day and night can do something, right? You come in on your own. Whether you're a tourist, or you just venture, this place is a must-visit place. Riverside, good lifestyle. Give you that kind of feel that they have been to Singapore. In Clarke Quay has been to Singapore. At the same time, also experience that rather than just a very kind of transient crowd who come in and take photograph and Instagram and that's it. Yeah. That's the art and science part that we try to get it right over time. I think Tony has given quite a good perspective of CQ performance of what's happening. I think we have one more question online, which is related to CapitaSpring. We also, at this point, want to also draw in just another question on the JV Line part. Just to add is that actually, there's higher operating costs because due to the end of the defect liability period, which ended last year. Okay. This was something we already shared, which is why operating expense is higher for the first half. Also, higher interest expense. The question online is asking whether we have refinanced the floating debt at CapitaSpring JV, and what is the interest savings when the debt is refinanced? The loan documentation is in the almost final stage. Any time, these few days, it'll be signed. The interest savings from the refinancing will be from slightly lower loan margin, about 20 basis point. On the conversion of floating rate to fixed, considering all that, I think in terms of interest savings, it could be in the range of 40 basis point. Okay. Thanks, Mei Lian. Given time, we have a last question from Gaurav. Yes. Sorry, thanks for taking my question. I'm just wondering, everyone's been asking about acquisitions and divestments. What about redevelopment? Have you looked through your portfolio to see where you can do really extensive AEIs or redevelops, something like your Was it Lot 1? Is there anything there? Yeah. Bukit Panjang Plaza is also very low rise. Is there any chance of any redevelopment in any of those assets? I'll pass that to Yi Zhuan. Definitely. I feel I alluded a little bit on that. Maybe you want to give some color. Yeah. Definitely, without naming any. Yeah specifics, I would say that generally, we would actually explore various scale of AEIs, as well as redevelopment plans, potentially. It's just that some of those plans may take quite a while to materialize, so it's not something that, especially if you talk about redevelopment, right? You look at the whole process of FS, engaging authorities, everything, to the eventual carry out. We are talking about easily two, three years down the road at the earliest. That will take time. Definitely, across both retail and offices, we do explore some of these opportunities that we see how to actually better position our assets and optimize the assets. Yeah. In the near term, of course, along the way, we have different scales of AEI or major upgrades that we are also studying for some of our malls, to make sure that we keep them relevant. I think some of the malls, we do find that there are pockets of opportunities for us to try and explore. Again, at the right time, then we'll probably share, because the last thing we want is to say something that at the end doesn't materialize. We'll share more in due course. Yeah. There's the CapitaSpring acquisition. I don't know whether you plan to acquire Is it 45% of- Yes CapitaSpring that you don't own? I think you're referring to the call option. The call option. The 55%- 55% commercial component. Do you plan to acquire? Because the three years period is coming up, isn't it? I think we do have the call option, so we have the, in a way, because it's a call option, we have the flexibility to decide whether we want to do it. At 45%, actually, it's not a bad contribution. We'll see how things pan out for there. It's all about prioritizing any kind of capital, what you want to redeploy, assuming the market comes back in a nice way. Yeah. There's one last question. This is about your ratings, because there's all these questions about the higher leverage, aggregate leverage ceiling, and all that. How important You talked about your debt market, debt investors. How important is the ratings to you, and what do you have to keep your aggregate leverage and your ICR at to maintain your rating? Yeah. There's also the, what? Debt to EBITDA ratio that the ratings agencies- I think it's important to maintain the premier status of CICT. There are advantages of having that title because you get some flexibility when it comes to looking at potential debt issuance. It keeps us in check in terms of making sure we are able to get, an overall basis, a more competitive cost of capital. Cost of capital, not just equity, also debt, right? I think it's important. We will strive as much as possible to try to be able to manage that. Rating agency, obviously, will look at different financial matrices. It's important to them. They also look at whether your ability to generate growth, right? At the same time, so that you are able to sustain the current financial matrices. Sometimes in between, there could be a blip, and that's something we have to engage the agency to explain. It could be a timing difference. We are embarking on a prolonged kind of AEI world, it could be a bit downtime. If we talk about, let's say, I said, we may be interested to monetize, but the timing may not be right, we just have to engage them. Anything? Okay. Thank you, Tony. Thank you very much. That's the last question we can take, because given time, I think we have managed about close to an hour of Q&A from both online and offline, on site. If you still have more questions, please feel free to reach out to the investor relations team. Also management will be around after this session if you have more questions. We are pleased at CICT. We have delivered a steady first half this year, 2024, performance, we're definitely primed for growth. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you. See you next time. Thank you. you. Thank you all