I think we'll get started. So welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining. My name is Terry Ma. I cover U.S. Consumer Finance at Barclays on the equity side. I'm pleased to be joined on stage with Mr. Cooper. With me today, I have Jay Bray, the CEO, Mike Weinbach, the President, and Kurt Johnson, the CFO. So welcome, gentlemen. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Really appreciate it. Yeah, and with that brief intro, let's just kind of jump right into it. Maybe just starting with the MSR market and what kind of opportunity looks like today. You reviewed a record number of deals a few quarters ago, but I think that quantity has decreased somewhat today. So maybe just kind of talk about what the pipeline looks like in the third quarter and what the market environment is like. Yeah, look, I think to your point, Terry, the first part of the year was, you know, we looked at a lot of deals. It was very active. There was a lot of supply. I'd say the summer was even pretty active, but there were a couple of aggressive buyers out there, so we, you know, we kind of sat on the sidelines and let them bid aggressively. We didn't feel like they were at the levels that, you know, made sense for us. Now, I think it's a normalized environment. I mean, you know, there's still supply out there. We think there's some seasonality slowdown, which we, you know, expected. But we look for 2025 to be, you know, a you know, pretty robust year. If you think about it, the non-bank originators, I think they're going to need to sell unless margins improve significantly. And so the other thing for us, you know, we obviously announced the Flagstar acquisition, which was a, you know, large $77 billion in MSRs and, you know, a considerable sub-servicing portfolio. That was a great deal for us, and so we've been pretty active with that one. But overall, I think the MSR market's kind of in a normalized environment right now. Okay, any particular factor that has driven this normalization or maybe the elevated deal activity seen earlier this year? I think earlier this year, you know, there were several. Yeah, look, there were banks that said they were going to come to market with portfolios, so we knew they were coming. There were some non-banks that I think, you know, needed to sell, and we expected that as well. I think people wanted to get out earlier in the year. So I think that's really what drove that. You know, now, I mean, look, originations aren't great. So there's just not a lot of, you know, supply in the market, and so I think that's kind of what's driven the normalization. Got it. That's helpful. You know, you touched on Flagstar a little bit. Maybe just, it's a large acquisition or asset acquisition, so maybe just update us on how that's progressing. Maybe even just to take a step back, for those, that are not familiar, maybe just talk about the rationale for the deal and what you found attractive in the assets. Yeah, I mean, look, it was right up the middle for us. If you think about it, you know, the primary components of that deal are the MSR acquisition, which is our bread and butter, and it was a portfolio that was similar to ours. And, you know, and the sub-servicing just gives us the opportunity to grow that, you know, capital-light business for us. When you look at their clients, I mean, there's some of their larger clients are existing clients of ours, and so that made a ton of sense for us to grow that business in a meaningful way. So, look, that was a direct deal. I mean, we worked with them on a direct basis. If you think about, you know, who could actually execute on a transaction like that, there's really, you know, we're probably the only player that can do it. Because at the end of the day, you know, we are the largest buyer of MSRs, with a large sub-servicing business. You know, we agreed to take their TPO business, which we'll absorb some of that into our correspondent business. I think it was a win-win for both parties, and you know, we came out feeling really good about it. The integration is going great. We would expect to close it in the fourth quarter. You know, we're talking with their team members and excited about welcoming them to the Cooper family. Got it. And then maybe a question for Kurt. As I've been speaking to investors, I think there's a kind of wide range of what people expect for accretion. Is there maybe just a framework for investors to think about potential accretion from the deal? Sure. I'll just sort of lay out what the economics look like, and people can kind of build it into their own models from an accretion and ROE standpoint. We've also said that, you know, based on this, we're comfortable moving towards the middle of our guidance of 14%-18% in 2025. But the way to look at it is about $1.2 billion of the acquisition price was related to MSRs. We've always said, and we report publicly that our MSRs yield about 11.5%. Our cost of funds blended is about 7.5% when you look at secured financing, which is SOFR-based and will be probably dropping over time. And then our unsecured financing, and we just raised unsecured in July at 6.25%. Call it a 7.5% blended financing rate, so that's 4.4 percentage points on a $1.2 billion acquisition. Think of that as $48 million of contribution to earnings in 2025. Then on sub-servicing, we've always said from a pre-tax basis on sub-servicing we earn about 1-2 basis points in pre-tax. On, call it, $250-$270 billion of sub-servicing at 1-2 basis points, utilize midterm, about $40 million of pre-tax earnings there as well. Got it. That, that's helpful. And then, is there a way to think about kind of the areas you can kind of outearn, kind of like the framework you kind of just went through? ... So, sorry? Is there a way to think about certain areas where you can kind of out earn or- Yeah. See the framework you- Yeah. So I think everything that we said there was sort of what our averages are, and obviously, we've become a far more efficient servicing shop. And so again, because this is largely a servicing acquisition, I think over time I think the marginal efficiencies will increase the returns on both the MSR and the sub-servicing. So I think both of those frameworks are where to think about from an average return, but I think from a marginal basis. Again, you have to kind of layer in the fact, as Jay said, we're welcoming all the employees into the Cooper family, and so there will be attrition, so it'll probably be sort of costs will sort of go down over time. But I think, yeah, you can see some improvements in those returns in the back half of 2025, probably. Especially if you look at, like, we're making investments, you know, as we speak, that will drive cost per loan down. So I think that's gonna, you know, in the, you know, beginning of 2025 and throughout 2025. So I think that's another opportunity for us to outperform there. Got it. That's helpful, and you touched on the TPO platform. Maybe just talk about what you see there, what that brings to your business, your origination business. Yeah, I think the TPO platform, you know, has a couple of different components. When we look at the correspondent piece, it's actually a great story. I mean, there's about 150 clients that are not existing clients of Mr. Cooper. So, you know, we're gonna welcome that team, welcome those clients, to the Mr. Cooper family, and that's gonna result, we think, in incremental volume, profits for the correspondent channel. And then for the other channels, you know, the broker channel, et cetera, I think there, you know, we'll absorb those team members, and we'll, you know, kind of wait and see how that performs and observe it, you know, over time. You know, it could present a lot of opportunity, but we're gonna be kind of measured and thoughtful about, you know, how we think about that business kind of medium term. Got it. Is there like an origination footprint that investors can kind of anchor to, like, when you kind of combine both pieces? Look, I think we are in the correspondent channel. We're gonna continue to grow that channel. I mean, this quarter has been a phenomenal quarter, and we think if you're the lowest cost servicer, which we think we are, if you have, you know, the highest retention in the industry or among the highest retention in the industry, it's just logical that you're going to be the right buyer for the correspondent business, and so that we're very bullish on. We're growing it as we speak. I think Flagstar, you know, will add to that. Our co-issue business is extremely strong as well, probably a top three player there, and then our direct consumer channel is, again, you know, we expect that to grow. It's having a phenomenal quarter, which we'll touch on here in just a second. But, you know, that channel will continue to grow. We'll continue to invest in, add capacity. And then, you know, with the remaining TPO channel, again, I think that's kind of a we'll wait and see, you know, how that evolves. But that's how to think about the origination footprint today. Okay, got it. That's helpful. Maybe just to turn to servicing, you ended the first half with about one point two trillion UPB, and you guided to a third quarter servicing EBT to remain relatively flat into $80-$300 million range. I guess maybe just to get a mark to market so far, does that guide still hold, and what's the outlook for profitability in servicing going forward? Yeah, it's this is a quarter where the balanced business model, once again, kind of is proven. We would expect to hit the high end of that guidance, if not exceed it. Servicing is performing very well and candidly in some areas, you know, better than we expected. So it's a very strong quarter from a servicing standpoint. Got it. Any more color on what's driving the outperformance? Is it more just operating leverage or, like, any color you can give there? It's operating leverage. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, that team has done a remarkable job of, you know, taking costs out, you know, automating the investments we've made there have continued to make us a more efficient platform. So it's ultimately, it's been all about execution. Got it. That's helpful. Maybe just want to touch on credit and maybe ask about the credit trends you're seeing in your portfolio. Delinquencies are at cyclical lows, but we've had mixed results. Unemployment numbers were higher last month, a little bit better this past month. So what's the outlook on credit? Kurt, you want to? Yeah, I can take that. So I think that in general, we're still seeing the credit performance on our portfolio holding in. I think and perform really well. Do I think Q3 will be our whatever it is eighth consecutive quarter of declining delinquencies? Maybe not, but I think it's holding flat. I think the composition of our portfolio has been pretty carefully constructed. We've got the average LTV in the low fifties. We've got FICOs on average at around 740. We've been buying a healthy mix of agency versus Ginnie. So I think for our portfolio in particular, the credit mix has been really, really good, and that's great because it provides us some opportunity, as Jay said, to, you know, to take advantage of the correspondent market when it's here as well, because we've got such strength in the existing portfolio right now. ... Got it. That's helpful. And then, maybe just touching on technology. You've spoken frequently about your investments in technology. Can you maybe just talk about where you stand with your tech initiatives today, and as it relates to servicing, how much more operating efficiencies can you extract? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm happy to jump in here. It's, you know, in many ways, it's the same story that it's been. You know, we relentlessly talk about perfecting the platform. That means investing in technology, in the servicing space. You know, we've been at it for a while. We started in partnership with Google, building out our Pyro AI platform. We continue to make investments in AI as we're moving from where we started with documents into the call centers. And it's resulted in a best-in-class efficiency from a servicing standpoint, which produces the opportunity to generate cash flow, which we can reinvest in the platform, which we've been doing. So, we feel really good about the ability to continue to generate operating leverage. As Jay indicated earlier, we feel like the direction of travel and costs is gonna continue to be down, and we plan to continue to relentlessly invest in the platform. Yeah, I don't think people realize the power of AI, and Mike's given this example a couple of times. But, you know, just right now, we're, you know, taking the customer's call, and before, the agent would have to summarize that call, and that could take anywhere from, you know, 40 seconds to a minute and a half. Now, you know, we're deploying AI to do that. And if you think about that, if you take that amount of time off of the number of calls we receive, it's extremely powerful and reduces costs significantly. And if you were to look at kind of our goals on the cost per loan, I mean, I think we could take costs down another 25%-30% from a cost per loan standpoint. So a lot of runway there. Obviously, we have to execute and continue to make investments, but very, very excited about the opportunity. Yeah, and in that example, the customer experience has improved also because- Yeah ... the agent isn't focused on documenting the system. The agent is focused solely on the customer. And so whereas there was distraction before, there's no longer distraction. And going forward, I think it'll be even better because the AI will actually pop the right screens at the right time, anticipating the next question the customer is going to ask. So I think that it's not only an efficiency play, it is a great customer experience play as well. Very important. Got it. Yeah, 20% down seems like quite a lot of runway. I guess, what else do you need to achieve or implement to actually get there? Look, I think we have a number of initiatives. A lot of them are AI-centric. It's really execution at the end of the day. We've identified, you know, where... like, if you take the calls, for example, you know, what, how the amount of time it takes for each piece of that call, and, you know, how can we streamline that process? We've also identified why are customers calling us, and they're calling us for, you know, the top ten reasons. How can we help that customer, you know, get the right digital tool in their hands so that they can self-serve, they can get the answer they want in a more efficient manner, and frankly, to Kurt's point, a better customer experience. So when you look at just those two pieces alone, there's a lot of opportunity there. It requires continued investment. I mean, not to be a broken record on it, but we've been at it for some time, but a typical call takes 10-11 minutes to resolve a customer issue. We've shared in some of our past earnings presentations, our number of calls has fallen in half over the last three years. Part of it is new digital technology that lets customers self-serve. Within that 10-11-minute call, Jay talked about the 30 seconds to a minute that we save in the after-call summaries. Kurt alluded to the ability to have AI listening to the call and serving up the information our agents need to be able to help customers. If you've ever had the experience of being on a customer service call with any company where the agent says, "Can I put you on a brief hold?" They're probably looking up information from other systems. Having that information readily available for the agent saves that hold time, which could be two minutes on a 10-minute call, so another 20% reduction right there. Got it. That's helpful color. So maybe just turning to originations. You guided to pretax profit about $35 million-$45 million for the third quarter. On the last earnings call, we've had a bit of a rate rally this quarter. So can you maybe just give a mark to market there on how volumes and margins are trending quarter to date? Yeah, quite strong. I mean, I think the way we think about it is we're definitely gonna be in the high end of that range, if not, exceed that range. When you look at our loan volume, you look at our funding volume, they're both exceptionally strong, and it's gonna be a, you know, a really, really strong quarter. And, you know, we have a lot of momentum there. I mean, our correspondent channel, like I said earlier, is, it's really got a lot of tailwinds at their back, and feel great about it. And DTC, you know, the, the, given the rates, the customers, we're helping a lot more customers. So it's gonna be, gonna be a good quarter. Got it. And what are you seeing with respect to competition from the other originators and players in this space? Yeah, for us, it's in the correspondent channel. I would say there's less irrational behavior there. And so you've seen a few folks that were extremely active a few months ago or even a couple months ago are not as active. And so I think margins are improving, you know, profitability is improving. And again, some of the things that we've done internally have also you know, improved our ability to drive those results. So, but, you know, competitively, I think it's a, it's a, you know, a more rational environment today than it was perhaps a little bit earlier in the year. Yeah, if I could just add, in the direct-to-consumer space, we, we're helping customers that we service and have a relationship already. So it's a little bit less of a competitive dynamic than you see in the correspondent space. But we have been investing in the platform on the DTC side as well, in order to be able to create and have more capacity. So, you know, over the last couple of years, where it's been a really challenging environment for most originators, we've still been profitable. We've been investing back in the platform to be in a position to scale rapidly when the market opportunity comes. And I think we shared in the commentary on our second quarter earnings call that we hired about 100 loan officers in the second quarter. We're continuing to add capacity. So, we've been in a good position to take great care of customers with what's come so far, and we're ready if the rate rally continues. Got it. And the things you've been doing internally, is it just from a capacity standpoint, or are there more kind of tech initiatives you're rolling out on the origination side? Yes and yes. Both. The tech initiatives have been to drive capacity. So, we've talked in the past about what we call Project Flash, which is componentizing the elements of processing and underwriting, both to simplify them for our employees, but also to automate them where we're able to, so it can be straight through. We're continuing to invest in our front-end digital application, so we can prefill it with everything that we know about customers and give customers the opportunity to share information with us. So by the time they're talking to one of our mortgage professionals, our loan officers, they're getting right to the heart of the matter and to be able to help them. So that translates into a greater number of loans that we're able to handle per employee on the origination side, and we're seeing some of the benefit of those investments in terms of the ability to scale. In addition to- And then- Yeah. I mean, another area that we're investing in, we call it front office modernization, which is really all around the loan officer. So it gives them the ability, today, they work in, you know, call it two, three, four systems. This is consolidating that into one system. So when they get that customer on the phone, it's already pre-populated with everything we know about the customer, you know, everything the customer's done from a digital perspective, and it immediately takes them to the solution for that customer and gives them, you know, what's the best product and price match for that customer, which makes it just a much, much more efficient process. And then capacity-wise, I mean, we today, you know, we have probably 25%-30% additional capacity. We've been very intentional about adding capacity over the last few quarters. We're still adding capacity because, again, we think origination is going to be extremely strong, you know, if what happens, if what people are predicting is going to happen to rates actually happens. And that's the beauty of the balanced business model, right? I mean, really, we're somewhat agnostic to rates, but at the end of the day, if that does present itself, you know, our origination team is going to be more than ready to help our customers. Got it. Helpful. So on that point, I mean, you mentioned you're agnostic to rates, but I assume you have some sort of view of what, you know, the rest of 2024 and maybe 2025 kind of looks like. If I look at industry expectations, I think Fannie and MBA are calling for $1.7 trillion for this year and just over $2 trillion for 2025. I guess, first, do you share that view? And, two, if that higher amount of volume does materialize, I guess you talked to the capacity point, but, I guess, maybe just speak to your ability to kind of recapture, in your portfolio. Mike, you want to start? Yes. So, you know, at a high level, we think the second half of this year is going to be a bigger market than the first half of the year has been. And we think similar to the Fannie forecast, next year is going to be bigger than this year. If you take apart the Fannie forecast, that increase from $1.7 trillion to $2.1 trillion, the $400 billion increase, is mostly refinance. And so if you take the percentage increase in the refinance market that implies, that's about a 60%-70% increase. And, you know, as Jay talked about, we've got 25%-30% capacity now, and we're continuing to add to be ready for that or more. Got it. In terms of the potential of refi, I guess, does the traditional rule of thumb of having a fifty basis point incentive still hold? I think there's been a couple other mortgage companies here at the conference that have kind of pointed to, you know, a hundred basis points of incentive is probably the more right incentive to be- ... Yeah, I can take that. So we're seeing a minimum of 50 basis points, but we're seeing probably more like 75 to 100 basis points. The way we look at it, and we base this on response rates, it's really the payback months in terms of the costs to originate. So between 24 and 36 month payback is when our customers are really, you know, responding well to refinance options, and that's, you know, call it 75 basis points. Yeah. And one thing, Terry, that I forgot to mention earlier on the servicing side of the business, I want to go back to is, because I don't know that a lot of people are aware, but when you look at our MSR portfolio today, it's about 75% hedged, right? And that's intentional because we think with our DTC channel and the ability to recapture, that 75%, you know, makes sense. And we've been hedged, Kurt, at that level for what? Probably eight quarters now? Yeah, close to eight quarters, and- Yeah and have performed consistently on it. The results have been, you know, call it plus or minus 7.5% to that 75% range. Yeah - consistently. Yeah. And I think that's an important, you know, point from an overall value standpoint that that I didn't mention in the servicing comments, but I want to make sure that, you know, we go back to that. Okay, got it. It's helpful. Maybe this is a good time to just pause and go through the two ARS questions that we have. So, the audience can use the controllers and just respond. Question one, relative to Fannie Mae and MBA, for mortgage originations of $1.7 trillion in 2024 and $2.1 trillion in 2025, what do you expect 2025 total market total mortgage originations to be? Oh, so fairly evenly split between $1.8-$2 trillion and $2-$2.2 trillion, 36% each. So next question, please. And over the next year, would you expect your positioning to increase, to decrease or to stay the same? Oh, sixty- Very smart audience. Yeah. 67% increase, 17% stay the same. Okay. So maybe let's just switch gears and touch on some of the other parts of the business. So maybe can you just give an update on Rushmore and and also maybe just talk about how those businesses fit into Coop's strategy. Yeah. Look, I think Rushmore is a fantastic special servicer. You know, when we acquired that, we felt like we were getting a platform that had some strong capabilities. And if you think about if we are going to enter into a credit cycle, you know, there's no better answer than Rushmore as a special servicer. And there's been some consolidation in that industry. You know, if you look at SLS, SPS, et cetera, and through that, Rushmore has been able to grow, and we, we've been able to add clients. I think we've got a strong pipeline of clients that we're going to continue to add, and we look at that as real opportunity. And then, you know, from a Cooper standpoint, clearly, you know, if necessary, we could certainly leverage their capabilities there as well. Rushmore has exceeded our expectations, honestly. When we underwrote that deal, they performed exceptionally well. The capabilities there are extremely strong, and we're growing clients, you know, as we speak. Xome is, you know, right now, the way to think about Xome is that the only thing really left in Xome is the auction business. So it's we call it our exchange business, and it's very default centric. It's focused on the CWCOT or the FHA, you know, program where you auction off, you know, properties and there's no foreclosures. And so, since there's no foreclosures, you know, the Xome activity has been pretty minimal. Having said that, you know, we've continued to invest in Xome. The platforms continue to get stronger. We've grown market share there as well. So if you look at the clients that we've added throughout the last couple of years, that's increased. And both those businesses, you know, are again kind of a hedge, if you will, if we get into a more difficult credit cycle. And they're both fee-for-service businesses, and you know, we love that, you know, about both of them. So Xome's capabilities have never gone away. Once foreclosures do return, it will return to a strong profitability level and strong cash flow level. Got it. Helpful. And a question for Kurt. You guided to 14%-18% ROE range for twenty twenty-five, and you indicated, Coop should firmly be at the midpoint of that. Can you maybe just talk, or speak to your confidence, like what gives you confidence in that? And maybe, just talk about what type of operating environment gets you to the high end versus the low end of that range. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that we are very confident about it, and we're confident about it because of the balanced business model in a wide range of rate scenarios. And we do run kind of different scenario modeling through and looking kind of at our recapture rates and some sensitivities around that. And we, you know, we land fairly consistently in that range regardless. And I think that there's some upside because in a rate rally environment, what you usually see is margin expansion, right? And we've started to see, as Jay pointed out, a little bit of margin expansion this quarter. So if you see that continuing, I think you could go up from there in terms of what our ROTCE looks like. And then I think compounding it, Jay talked to our hedge, right? We are 75% hedged. And so in a rate rally environment like this, that hedge actually generates a ton of cash, and the actual mark is a non-cash event, so it gives us a lot of flexibility in terms of what we do with things. So I think, you know, we're very confident in terms of where our returns are gonna be. And I think, you know, we've got a lot of capital to potentially repurchase stock, to buy more assets as we become, you know, as the target prices are in our range as well. Got it. We have about six or seven minutes left. I'll just open it up to the audience for Q&A. Questions, anyone? Okay, we keep going. Maybe just, is there an update on the MSR fund, kind of where does that stand right now? Yeah, we actually have had some strong progress there. We have a couple of anchor investors that have gotten through their investment committee process, which always takes a significant amount of time, and now we're in the documentation phase. And so, you know, we would look to complete that, call it by year-end and, you know, be ready to deploy capital, you know, in the early part of two thousand and twenty-five. So yeah, it's taking a little bit longer than we expected, but we're ending up in a good place with some very strong, you know, counterparties and investors there. And we will certainly grow that over time, but again, look to start deploying capital in first part of the year. Got it. Then maybe another question for anyone. How do you think about capital allocation? Your tangible net worth and total assets would be 26% pro forma for Flagstar. I think you indicated your target range is 25%-30%. So how should investors think about that? And in terms of the buyback, you have over $250 million remaining, but the shares are trading above tangible book. So how sensitive are you to, I guess, valuation? Yeah, so we agree with your audience. We think we're also going to increase our ownership stake in Mr. Cooper and continue to invest in the stock repurchase. We do think, you know, look, a 16% ROTCE even trading above book is kind of a seven-to-eight times forward price-to-earnings ratio. I think there's a lot of value in our stock right now, and as I said, with the capital generation, with the cash generation, with the hedge, we think we're in a good position to continue to buy, and we are going to be buyers of our stock. You know, the target ratio, to correct you, not meaning to correct you, but we guide 20%-25%. We're right now above the top end of that range, so we think we've got some flexibility there as well. And again, as we see MSR assets becoming available, where we think the returns are great, we still have some flexibility to do that. We're focused on the Flagstar acquisition and closing that and making sure that the customers are really taken care of. But we are going to be looking for opportunities to continue to grow the MSR portfolio as well. And Terry, you mentioned the valuation relative to book, and you know, book is a relevant way to look at the valuation as it pertains to our MSR portfolio. But as Jay talked about, it maybe is underappreciating some of the businesses we have that don't require capital, some of the fee-based businesses like sub-servicing, like special servicing, and then obviously the origination opportunity that our direct-to-consumer channel represents. Got it. Okay. Any questions from the audience? We have about two or three minutes left. Okay. Maybe just going back to credit, we've had a few mortgage companies present here this week, and they've kind of pointed out mod programs from the GSEs helping borrowers stay in their homes. Do you think these programs maybe present a new norm for mortgage credit or delinquency trends? Yeah, I do. I mean, Kurt, you're closer to it, so go ahead. Yeah, I do. I mean, I think that we, we as an industry, and I mean the entire mortgage ecosystem, learned a lot coming out of the great financial crisis, and I think we learned what worked, and I think we learned what didn't, and I think we learned to collaborate a lot better. I'll give the agencies a ton of credit. I think that they've developed a framework that really makes sense for the customer, makes sense for the servicer, and actually makes sense for them as the investor insurer as well. And so I think the FHA program that just rolled out, utilizing the partial claim to do a payment supplement so the customer can make a 75% P&I payment for a three-year period of time, really starts to kind of incorporate what happens if, you know, one customer has, you know, loses some form of income. And so I think that, you know, they've been really effective programs and will continue to be really effective programs. And then FHA has built an insurance fund of $120 billion, and FHA is supposed to be a bridge loan, right? FHA is supposed to be kind of your entry into the system, where you keep an FHA loan for three years, and then you graduate to a Fannie/Freddie loan. What's really happened, because of those interest rates that are sub-4%, those customers are now in an FHA loan for much longer. They're not risky customers at all because they're now equitized. They have, you know, 40% value in their homes, so they're staying in that 3.5% rate FHA loan and continuing to pay the mortgage insurance premium, which is self-fulfilling. Then, the new customers are able to be off of these modification programs when they enter unfortunate life events. So I think, generally, I think, the programs have been super successful. Okay, great. We have about one minute left, and if there are no further questions or any questions from the audience, I think we'll just wrap it up there. All right, I think we're good. Great. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.