Everyone. Time to keep going, and this is obviously now our kinda lunch keynote, you know, time. So we have a little bit a little bit more time for lengthy conversations. My pleasure to welcome Jason Robbins, cofounder and chief executive officer of DraftKings. Thank Welcome. Thank you for having me. So we didn't get any we didn't get any informal informalities on the side. Last year, if you don't remember before right before this event, think you were coming in out of Miami with, like, couple hours of sleep. Yeah. The whoop was like lighting up. Oh, 1% recovery, remember. Yeah. I I think that's right. So so so where are we at on the recovery meter for for 2025? A little better a little better today. I I was here for the whole night and didn't fly in, you know, on two hours sleep this time, so it was much better. Awesome. And the other claim to fame was the was the jacket last year. Yeah. Which Not this year. Not a top drawer, but there was a DraftKings monogrammed one of one series, you know, jacket. Oh, very subtle, but but a great time. On the inside. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So look. Thank you again for for, you know, spending the time with us. Say, if I could lead off, I I definitely wanted to start, you know, pretty high level, Jason. Like, what, you know, I field so many different questions around, let's call it, what I'm gonna call the algorithm of growth for, you know, online, you know, for online gaming broadly and and online sports betting in particular. You know, we go down these paths as Wall Street modelers of things like, you know, handle and hold and promo, and we're do you know, assigning all these variables. But I thought it'd be helpful just to kinda level set for us a little bit of how you think strategically about the business. Because here we are modeling these KPIs as if they exist in a vacuum, but I doubt that's kinda what you actually do on the inside. And I love just like, how are you actually talking to the product teams when you're walking in every day about driving the business forward? How are you working on those variables? You know, kind of working backwards or how do those become outputs to what you're you're working with on your teams? So I mean, I think there's really at the simplest level, there's two things. There's how many customers do you have and how well are you monetizing them. So we tend to kind of look at it that way and you know, for example, I think you're talking about like handle and all the other things you can break down when you look at revenue. We don't really forecast in that way. So our team will have technically, I guess, a handle number that they, you know, have in their model, but it's not actually how they're thinking about managing it. They're thinking, I need to hit this revenue and gross profit number. I can do that by driving various, you know, levels of handle hold or promo efficiency and, you know, those are the levers that I basically have to pull to get there, and they're trying to land the plane on that number. So, you know, when you are trying for example as we have been for the last couple years to really push up your structural hold rate driving more promo efficiency, that's gonna have an impact on handle. Same ways in previous periods if the market was promoting more and there was more of a focus on that, then the handle would be, you know, higher. So they all kind of move together and we really look at revenue and ultimately gross profit. And then obviously, we look at customer level metrics like, you know, how many active customers we have? How are they engaging? You know, are they betting multiple sports? Are they playing with, you know, the level of frequency that we expect in those types of things? And when that translates into your conversation with the financial team, when you're kind of getting around the roundtable before the quarter, like, what's your level of, you know, kinda how are you interacting with then the KPIs that that kinda Wall Street, you know, demands? Like, what what are you are you as a business leader, are you really focused on sort of that that revenue outcome? And then help us walk through the p and l a little bit around, you know, just what's the cost messaging that sits underneath that? How are you kind of thinking about growing your business and balancing that with with trying to drive some scale and some operating leverage? Well, I'm actually I think, you know, rare that I feel as excited as I am about the cost outlook right now. And the reason why is I think AI is transforming the way that we are going to potentially need or not need to grow our fixed costs going forward. There is some investment, you know, we are gonna be hiring more AI engineers. We are deploying some new tools. But the amount of efficiency I think we are going to generate on headcount and, you know, being able to basically place what would have been human hires with AI agents and also reduce in certain areas as well. I think over the next few years is going to be a big thing for us. So that's something we're very focused on in terms of the cost side. As far as like more on the revenue side of metrics, we're really looking at, you know, obviously again making sure we see healthy customer metrics and we feel good about engagement. We're really looking at how well we can monetize the customer and trying to improve that. So it's a continual push towards how do we make more gross profit per customer and ultimately more LTV. So that that's really the way we think about that. LTV obviously depends on what time you're measuring it over, so it could be a tricky thing. But we've gotten our models to a point now where for an existing customer, I think we can really accurately predict what we expect that cohort of existing customers to do, not maybe a single customer for a cohort of customers. So even when we acquire new customers, we very early on have a very accurate projection of them. What's a little trickier and sometimes harder to forecast is the actual number of new customers coming in. Okay. You know, as you remember probably a year ago, we got caught by having really strong customer acquisition, which was good for now this and future years, but made the promo run a little high. So, know, we've we've obviously adjusted that's like a little bit less predictable, but to actually know what a customer is going to produce once we acquire them, we've gotten very good at. So what is the balance of what's those two metrics before I now hammer you on the Wall Street KPIs? But before we go there, like, know, what are the balance of these two very are we still seeing new customers enter the funnel? What's your, you know, kind of conversion rate or your target on these people? And do they spend as much as the, you know, existing cohorts? Or is that golden cohort one and you're seeing some sort of degradation in spend as you get as you pick up that incremental customer today? So, know, way I would think about that last question is there is definitely a golden cohort in the first year or two. Once you get past that, it's been essentially the same profile of customer that we've been consistently acquiring. And I think the improvements that we've made to the product are actually monetizing some of these newer customers better than ones we were getting a few years ago. But it doesn't look like there's this continual degradation even though for sure there's a golden cohort in that first year or so that you get. But you know, then it kind of asymptotes out really quickly, I think. And it is hard sometimes to distinguish between the customer and also the products improved a lot too. But if you're just kind of looking at it is apples to apples as you can, that's the way I would describe it. So, again, now let's kind of think about the the the kind of Wall Street output of this, which is we, you know, we do kind of break down all these state level numbers in in in granularity. But a conversation with actually Alan, you know, really sticks out from from June. We talked about this balance of, you know, when we when we started digging in on handle growth, which was a sort of an obsession kinda walking out of the first quarter going into the second as that trend was slowing down. And there was a point made around, hey. Look. We can incent these behaviors. Right? We can drive a lot of handle if we give x y z promotion. I believe the discussion we had was all around your your sign up bonus and your for Major League Baseball, and they kick off of that season, which was very handle friendly a year ago, but might be much more full driven a year later. Could you could you elaborate or discuss that a little bit? Because I think it's I think it's actually a really important Yeah. Message for everyone. I I think early on in, you know, the industry and not that we aren't doing this at all still, but much more so like relative to where we are today. We were more focused on handle growth and less focused on driving up structural hold and promo efficiency. Over the last couple years, particularly in the last year, we have made tremendous strides on structural hold and promo efficiency, and that has come, you know, I think with some slower handle growth, but, you know, ultimately we, like I said, we don't even really forecast or look at it that way. We look at it as, okay, I could hit a variety of handle numbers, but then my hold would have to be this, and my promo would be this, and we're trying to ultimately maximize that whole equation. And right now, we are finding that we are getting so much value out of focusing on structural hold and promo efficiency that I I don't see that really being something at least in the near term that changes in terms of focus. You know, in each of your shareholder letters, you give a bit of an update on the structural hold in terms of what you've done, and particularly in the last, you know, year, you know, really the last couple quarters, major multi 100 basis point improvement in parlay mix. Is that the key variable and and sort of what, you know, what's driving it? Just kinda help us under the tent on the product side of, you know, amazing to see the outcome. But how are you doing it? Is it merchandising? Is it, you know you know, is it a certain type of player that you're able to find and target retarget with, you know, the right promo boost? What is it that's working to be able to drive this? Because it you know, we're not young anymore from the standpoint of this isn't, you know, one year out where you're learning and evaluating to be this far along with these customers and still moving the entire ship by hundreds of basis points actually seems like lot. Yeah. I mean, I think that well, first, it is largely parlay mix. Obviously, we're always improving our models too, but the the big driver of the structural hold increase by far has been more parlays, but also more higher margin singles bets, more legs added to parlays. So not just purely, you know, what percentage of bets are parlays, but all of those things, higher margin bets, so to speak. And so, you know, that is the focus, and I think it's not really one thing so much as like a combination of how you merchandise, market, promote, what types of products we're focusing on. So whereas last year as you noted in q two, we ran a very activation heavy promo that was singles bet focused, which did fine for activation, but didn't, you know, singles bet focus. So actually didn't drive anything in fact, took us the other way on parlay mix. This year, start of NFL, for example, we're rolling out stacks, ghost leg. I mean, those are the product features we're launching. Stacks is a narrative driven parlay builder. Ghost leg is a promo where if one leg of your parlay misses, it goes away as though you never did it and you still get credit. So that's where we're investing our product dollars, our promo dollars. It's how we're using our marketing channels. So, know, seeing people making pics now that aren't singles bets and are always whenever we do any kind of, you know, influencer or or talent based type stuff, and just really orienting the whole thing around that. And I think what it shows is it's not really a type of customer as much as a behavior that you can drive. And I don't view it as there's, you know, more customers of this type or that type we need to attract. I think parlays are fun and anybody can get into them. You just have to get them to do it and you have to give them reasons to to be interested in trying it. And so, you know, that's what we're doing now. And I think that comes in all across all those things, but the the best way to summarize is just focus more than anything else. So we are on the eve of football. We're gonna get into the some of the product innovations shortly. But, you know, it also reminds Julie and I as we start writing all of our notes about weekend outcomes because, you know, individual games start to go up in in matter. It it's gonna there's gonna be a little bit of that Sunday night about what the the matchup is, which I think is a quite big one on this this Sunday. So what this brings to us though is volatility. Right? As parlay mix goes up and, you know, we're talking, you know, about driving hold as a as a major important outcome. You know, when parlay mix goes up, there is the inverse of when those hit, especially if there's concentration into a handful of bets on parlays. Volatility also goes up. So how do you think about that? Like, is that is that something you even care about? Or you're like, Sean, this is math. And, you know, when I look at expected values, what will happen or should happen and mean revert over time, we're super comfortable here. How do you think about kinda managing that volatility as a as a as a bookmaker, which is, you know, a very basic part of your job? I mean, the only reason I really care is some of our shareholders care. But my point of view is more what you were saying, it's math and it makes sense to do whatever generates more long term expected value as long as the volatility can be managed and the risk can be managed. So never in any situation are we taking on risk that is not manageable. We have lots of controls in place for that. That's why even when we have a horrible quarter in terms of sport outcomes like what happened in q four last year, it's not like we held zero. We still held, you know, pretty close to 10%. Right? So I mean, it's like I think was like eight or something percent. And so, know, we're not gonna be in a position where we're gonna risk capital that we can't afford to risk or or do anything like that. And once you kind of cross that threshold and you're like, okay, like I'm managing the risk side of it. I think you just want to maximize EV and maximize long term value. And I also think part of why and this is part of why people like parlay is part of what makes betting great is there is volatility to it. You know, customers like the volatility because even though it makes them lose sometimes, they actually can go on some win streaks too. And so, you know, that's part of what makes it fun. If it were just the same thing every time and you were just winning or losing at exactly the same rate, think it would be less interesting from a customer perspective. And so we're trying to balance all those things and obviously do care that some shareholders are asking questions about volatility. But I find that once there's almost like kind of, at least when we were getting asked a lot about this before, there was this underlying, you know, I think question that wasn't really being asked that I think was behind it, which is like, okay, do I really believe you? It was bad outcomes. And Yeah. I think that was as much the question as like, hey, are cool you with the volatility? I think if everybody's like, yeah, I feel really good that the structural hold is right and there's gonna be some volatility, then sure. But when you have a couple of bad quarters and you're like, just trust me, it was the outcomes. I think, you know, naturally you're gonna get So we did a lot of work to try to assemble, you know, factual data on like the rate which favorites won and other things to show. And even though people then saw that, they still don't really know. Okay. But like, should you still have done better or worse? I don't know. I'm just taking your word for it that this was outcomes. I think last quarter being able to come back and say we had a material positive outperformance because of good outcomes, I think that's something that actually quieted a lot of these volatility questions. Because it's one thing if you're coming back and it's two quarters in a row and saying, yeah, we got killed and then I got, well, volatility should swing both ways. So Right. You know, I think as time goes on and investors see it's normalizing to where we thought it was gonna be over any real period of time and the volatility swings are both directions and it seems like it's normal. I think people won't care as much about it. Again, the natural gravitation to to parlay is theoretically should increase volatility to some degree, but not if they're independent outcomes. But but one question we've had is that, you know, concentration risk around influencer based events. Right? And, you know, I think this is something that you know, or the prepack parlay. Right? It's you get in, and, ultimately, people also wanna bet the same socially kinda wanna bet the same thing that their friends bet. And then you get these almost a herd mentality. So is that is that accurate? Do you expect over time as the product suite evolves that people do more different things, or do you see some of this bird mentality? And, again, as the big event, you know, we can get into the Jack the the Powerball. Right? But Powerball is, like, as it gets big, it then gets really you know, gets a lot bigger because everybody sees the huge opportunity and then kinda says, well, I wanna be part of the, part of the crowd. So how do you just see it evolving from a behavioral perspective? I mean, you can have some influence here too. I I would assume in terms of what you kind of what you show the customers. Well, I mean, I think one, this is part of what I was saying on the risk mitigation is we we can't and don't allow for amounts of concentration that create risk for us. We have controls and thresholds in place that if you know, we get to a certain level, we'll we'll we'll protect against that. But you know, I think for the most part and there are very rare exceptions where that does come into play, but for the most part it just never happens because at this point, and this is I think a competitive advantage we have over most of the market, at this point, there is such a variety of things and there is such diversified betting going on in the app that even if you do have a promo or an influencer or whatever doing that that drives volume to one, it's still not that concentrated relative to how much is going on throughout the entirety of the app. So we really haven't had an issue in recent memory where that came into play, but we do have controls in place just to make sure. We did, for example, a few years ago have a promo that went viral that was for a really long shot parlay, it had virtually no shot of hitting. I mean, was like, know, lock of the century it wasn't gonna hit, but we still shut it off because we're like, look, we're you know, at that point we were up to about a 100 and something million of risk or 200,000,000 of risk, and we were just saying we're not going beyond that. But that was the last time I can remember that happening and I think the thresholds are a little higher now too. The other thing I would say in terms of the volatility in investors and all that that I think is going to help is we've changed a little bit how we're doing our guidance too in light of this. I think we kind of in some ways exacerbated maybe the perception of how much volatility there really is by focusing on a guidance midpoint and moving it anytime there was a dollar shift one way or the other for outcomes, which, you know, this time around we said, look, even though we had positive outcomes, it's still within the range and we're not gonna change the range just to and we're trying to focus people away from a mid point and more towards a range. So I I kinda think we shot ourselves in the foot a little bit, like guiding to a precise mid point essentially, which no business can do. I mean, business provides ranges for a reason, right? So I think that'll help also put us in more of a light of like, oh, yeah. This is just normal volatility like you'd see in any business because we're not gonna as frequently be adjusting our guidance anymore if we're doing it more that way. So I wanna switch gears a little bit, you know, of the big topics that, you know, have come up in in our conversations. I I don't know if there's been a bigger one in the last, you know, three months than prediction markets. So, you know, I kinda wanna leave here a little bit. I know, you know, since even last public comment, a heck of a lot has evolved here. So, you know, FanDuel's announced a partnership with CME. Underdog announced, you know, sort of a a unique relationship with crypto.com. So, you know, and Polymarket, as of yesterday, from what we can tell, is officially back in The US. I don't if products lie, but they are able to operate here more independently than they were, you know, prior to to to to that. So a lot going on in this vertical, you know, we you had a very interesting sort of open to the idea of, you know, always need to be around the hoop, but maybe don't want to or need to be first mover in some, you know, way, shape, or form. I may paraphrase that poorly but unpack unpack that for us a little bit and just as you started to see some of the strategic moves around you. Where's DraftKings at right now? Well, mean I think that the the most important question is, know, where is the space going to evolve? And then I'll come back to kind of where we're going. But, know, right now, you're right. There's a lot of cards being turned over in real time, and so we're getting a lot of information on these things like, you know, and it continues to appear that at least at the federal level, there's going to be this this is gonna be here to stay. And so then the question becomes, okay, like what happens with states? And you know, obviously for someone like a poly market, they they don't have to worry about that, and they also don't have any revenue risk in in the states. But, know, I think for somebody like us, we we would view both the revenue opportunity as well as the, you know, place where we could not have as much risk as largely focusing on places that did not have online sports betting for anything that that resembles sports. And, you know, I think for other types of things like non sports predictions, which was I think what Flutter announced they were doing at least initially. I think that's probably a little more widespread, but also depends and we have to sort of see how that goes too. You know, we've always kind of been and this applies not just to this, but I think it's especially important for this, of the mindset that why, you know, make an announcement before you have to on anything. And so, you know, I don't think we feel like we have to announce what our plans are until if time came we were ready to actually act on those plans or pretty close to ready to act on those plans. And I think that's just the best way of kind of seeing what happens without being committal, but also doesn't mean internally we can't be preparing and doing things and slowing down at all there. So I don't know if it's as much I'd say like we don't think that we should be an early mover or anything like that as much as it is. We have to make sure we have the right thing and we are prepared to do it. And when that happens, if that happens, we'll announce something, but we don't feel like we need to announce anything ahead of that, which is a different strategy than I think others take. But, you know, there's pros and cons to both, I think. But that's just for whatever for better or worse how we've always kind of operated in these types of situations. But, sir, I mean, and you made a made an interesting point around, you know, just like yeah. The where I where I would go like, if I up level this a little bit, I would just start with, is this a TAM that you can't ignore? Right? So when you think about size of what's happening because there is a there is a debate in the industry of, we look at The UK and we say that this is, you know, pick your number, high single digit of of mix, and it's a product that's always existed. But then you see a product evolution, and there were a heck of a lot of people that did similar UK analyses to The US, and we're like, oh, sports betting is probably not gonna be that, you know, as big of a deal or as disruptive either. You know? Kinda how do you kinda come out on is this a you know, people talk about right to win in this in this vertical, and then people also talk about, you know, oh, that's that's probably not as big of a deal as you think. You know, where are you at on this? I need I need to pay attention here. Well I mean, I think it's pretty simple. I think the TAM opportunity is likely to be very significant in states that do not have legal online sports betting, And I think it is likely to be fairly small in states that do have online sports betting. And I give you two reasons. One, evidence based UK example you get that as a market where both products coexist together and it's a single digit percentage of the total revenue, which I think is an indication that when both products are available, customers overwhelmingly prefer the traditional online sports betting product. The other thing I would say is just if you think about it conceptually, it's going to be very difficult to ever have as full featured in offering in a prediction market setup as you could in an online sports book. One of the chief reasons being risk management when you are putting, know, as a market maker, a market up on an exchange, you just have to be comfortable with anyone taking that liquidity. Anyone, you know, can fill that order versus we are able to place limits on sharps and other people. And that is the only reason we're able to offer the variety of bets and things that we can. If we offered all the different bets that we offered and we weren't able to do that, we would get picked off and destroyed. Right? So I think that is going to be a limiting factor for not just the variety of bets, but parlays and other sorts of combinability and things like that. For example, if you are putting out, we were just talking about this earlier, actually, a very high leg parlay, you have to collateralize the potential winnings on that every time you do that. So it's pretty hard even if you know you're gonna win the vast majority of these parlays and you have enough variety out there that you're not gonna lose You're not gonna Even if you somehow knew that and you could manage the risk, is also an if because you don't know who's taking your bet on the who's taking the order on the other side, you also have to then collateralize all So I just think it's virtually impossible under that type of regulatory framework to ever have something that could be as rich and varied as what you see in an online sports book. But no doubt there will be in a state that doesn't have an online sports book available, at least a legal one. There'll be people that just wanna go and do game lines and other, you know, simpler stuff that's available on it. So that's that's kinda like the way I look at it. I think we have both. It's clearly in my mind going to be challenging for that product to compete. But I think where you don't have anything else, it's pretty good. One thing that also evolved differently here in The UK was the kind of verticality of the tech stack. Here, it became just absolutely required that you own your own tech. You guys were super early and a lot of foresight around SP Tech, which I think has turned into, you know, a a, you know, a huge amount of your platform. You've brought in further technology, simple bet, and other things that you build around that beyond that. But it's become, again, de rigueur in that's what you do in, you know, American online sports betting. How do you think the same requirement is gonna be there for prediction? Because right now, one of the things that has allowed for faster move to market for the public announcements that have occurred has been owning, you know, has been, you know, some sort of partnership or b to b framework. It has not been, you know, owning a vertical tech stack. So, you know, do you think that's gonna be a necessary part of this landscape or is it is the exchange based model different? You know, hard to know because it's really not even a question of do you wanna own your tech, but what parts of the tech are absolutely essential to own and what's not. And I think it's too early to know exactly what the answer to that will be. But I think as a general strategy, controlling more is always in almost any case I can think of in a technology product better. But you know, it doesn't mean everything. Even today, we don't have you know, we we use plenty of partners for different parts of the tech stack. We use Amazon Web Services. We I mean, there are a lot of pieces. So I don't think I have enough understanding of this ecosystem to know that yet. And I think what we did in sports betting, you know, it could end up being a template where we we actually did start off partnering on the b to b side with with with Camby. And it took us a couple years before we really realized, or maybe a year, before we realized like we we gotta own this thing. And that's when we did the SB Tech deal and went public and all that. And you know, I think part of that was the the notion of owning or having our own tech initially wasn't even realistic at that point. And I think, you know, if we did it would have had to been an acquisition of a level we weren't comfortable making. So like those are all factors I think that you have But generally speaking, I think owning more of the tech is usually better in almost any consumer product than not. And maybe kind of last on this area, but just be, know, zooming out like you know, as a CEO, there seems to be some nexus of financial technology, you know, that's entering this the, you know, this discussion here. Whether you look at, you know, I mean, the primary name that comes up increasingly in our discussions is Robinhood as sort of an, you know, an onboard or obviously, you know, on on on the brand or broker side of this. But I kinda wanna ask this from DraftKings perspective. You know, is there a world where you could be a meaningful platform in sort of a nonsports context? Or how do you how important is the sports overlay to DraftKings as we start to think about, you know, some world where convergence of financial products and, you know, again, what we'd consider, you know, today, you know, and then truly a a sports offering start to come together? You know, it's a it's a very interesting question you're asking. And I think that if things continue the way that they are trending today, there will be some convergence there. And, know, it's actually really for one simple reason which is if we do end up, you know, going into something like predictions or sports predictions, we're gonna have to build out or acquire or partner to get basically the, know, build out the regulatory framework to operate the same types of products that you're taught, like financial instruments of a variety. Right? So once you kind of have that, it was sort of similar to when we were just doing fantasy sports, it was a huge dig to think of getting into online in any way when it was smaller in The US because it was just a lot of effort. And at that time, I think it was just New Jersey doing, you know, iGaming. And But once sports came, we're like, we're gonna make the investment, and we built out everything we needed to do to sports betting, yeah, we might as well do iGaming. We already have a lot of that, and we know that there's a market opportunity there. And so, you know, I kind of think of that as similar. Now, hopefully, that becomes successful for us, but like, if I were approaching, for example, the other way and saying like, would we just jump into financial products absent of anything like this? I'd say, don't know if we have a right to win or if that's the place we want to focus now. But if we're going to build out the other stuff, then you might as well at least explore extending into there. And I think that's sort of what you're seeing is that the Robin Hoods, the financial products are starting to dip into sports. And I think potentially you could see the other side happen too once this all gets built out, if it all gets built out. So let's pivot to product. And you mentioned iGaming, so let's just stay on that for a minute. You know, a lot a number of companies have sort of changed their strategy here. I'm thinking, you know, FanDuel has has been pushing in this area. Caesars has done this, you know, and pushing kinda casino first. Right? Where do you kinda sit, or where do you think DraftKings sits today on pushing on that relative to kinda more of a, you know, an OSB cross sell lens? Because I think, you know, again, that's an area where you were super early and successful with a product like Rocket, but it led it led you towards a customer that was looking for a certain experience. Whereas when we think casino first, we think different demo, you know, possibly different even branding and certainly a slot first, you know, experience which requires maybe a third party set of set of product around that as well. I think you're you know, so first of all, I think you kind of summarized it. We were early and I think did a very good job focusing on the cross sell side from sports with table games and games like Rocket. And I think that we, you know, didn't maybe appreciate and go as hard after as we are now the opportunity for a slots first customer. So I think it's a big opportunity for us. If you look at our share of the table games market, it's orders of magnitude higher than our share of the slots market right now online. So there's clearly a lot of low hanging fruit there. I think there's some element that's product, but most of it I think is the marketing and who you're going after like you were saying. I don't think it's like, know, our products always can be improved, but we we have all we we have the product. We have the games. We have the setup. I don't think historically we've been actually maybe to your point on like, you know, I don't see branding, but like the way that it looks and like what games you're featuring. I don't think we've been orienting that way. I certainly don't think we have been marketing that way. So that's something that we are adjusting now and hopefully, we'll have some real opportunity there. Well, can you gotta put a time frame around sort of like what where do this sits on the whiteboard? I mean, you we are also, which was my next set of questions, going to NFL launch. So it's not like your engineers and product people aren't super busy. Where does iGaming kind of fall on the priority list right now and kind of what time frame should investors be thinking about? I don't necessarily wanna put like a time frame for anything like share or anything like that because there's so much, you know, that goes into that. But I think now we are making dramatic improvements and also focusing more on the right thing, which is that slots first casino first customer, and I don't think that was true a few months ago. So when that will start to really show up in numbers that you guys look at, I I don't know. Hopefully not too long. But I know that we are making that shift now, and so I expect results to follow. In terms of leadership, is it through the DraftKings brand or is it gold nugget? How are you Oh. Like both. I think both. And you know, what's interesting is if you look at what Flutter was able to do, it was not through a separate brand. So I am not convinced that the brand is the problem. I think it is the way that we have been marketing and who we have been marketing and targeting. And we have been inordinately well, I shouldn't say no. We have been heavily focused on the table games customer and on the cross sell customer. And as a result, I think we have really high share there. So I kind of look at it as if we're even able to get to half of the share that we have at the table games side of the market with with slots, we're gonna have a tremendous amount of growth in the next couple years. So let's go back to sports then. NFL season kicks off tonight. I'm not gonna ask you who's gonna well, maybe I will ask. So who are who are the books rooting for tonight? Well, you know, so much comes in as it gets closer to game time that I don't know yet, but I can't imagine that it won't be, you know, I can't imagine it'll be the Eagles even though, know, who knows because weird things can happen. It just seems like that the money is going on the Eagles, I think. But we'll see. You know, I don't necessarily know. I I think this a lot and then I look at the numbers right after kickoff and I'm like, what's going on here? This is totally opposite of what I thought. So who knows really? It's a bit like telling people why stocks do what they do. Yeah. Exactly. Sometimes it doesn't go the way you think it's going. So just what so we talked about this a little bit stacks and, you know, ghost lag I'd like know, can we you you just talk about some of these features. What are you excited about, you know, kinda into? What are the customers seeing, you know, or what you've been rolling out in anticipation of this? And what should we be be excited about that you think can can move the needle for for product on the product side or launches going into NFL? I mean, stacks is is probably the one I'm most excited about. It's a narrative driven parlay build area where basically it makes suggestions for you based on what you're betting or what types of parlays you're building of additional legs that you can add and ways that you can increase your But things that are in line with your thesis. So, you know, if you're taking bunch of Eagles players, maybe it suggests throwing the Eagles over in there. Like things that we know if your narrative is I think all these players are gonna score or whatever, you're likely to think the Eagles are gonna put up a big point total, but maybe you didn't see that bet because we have so many things and it wasn't merchandised clearly. So I think that's gonna really help in terms of structural hole, but also be a very engaging product for customers because it's building on why they're betting in the first place, which is they have some narrative in their mind about how they think the game is going to go. I'm also really excited about Ghostleg. Ghostleg is where if you miss a parlay by one leg, that leg goes away and you get credit for the rest of them. So that should be you know, what's different again this year is those are the things that we're focusing on instead of things that are driving singles mix. Not that we don't care about that too, but it's, you know, really differentially focusing on product and on marketing and merchandising and all those things at the same time with the singular goal. Are really two goals actually we have this year. I shouldn't say singular. One is driving parlay mix and one is driving live betting. And so I don't think we've had that clarity of focus ever in a year going into a season where it's like this is what the mission is. And I think that's part of why we're be we're we're executing well now. You mentioned live betting. So obviously, you know, bet acquisition, you know, is completed. It's already a meaningful portion of your mix if we kind of think about live in its entirety, not just you know, what's done on the simple bet platform. But, you know, what or micro betting, if you will. But kinda where where are we taking that? You know, one of the big features here is obviously having the optimal and the longest possible window in which to place a bet. At But some point, we'll probably reach some diminishing returns there. So are there other features that, you know, and other improvements that you're looking at to drive the live experience? Yeah. I mean, I think there's both variety of bets, but then also one of the biggest challenges with live betting and it's why parlay mix is lower and all that is the speed at which it's happening. And so we internally have said we need to be able to move at the speed of sports. So our product has to contemplate the game is happening. This is what's happening, and we need to be able to surface in very fast times and get people to engage with things that if they were just hunting around on their own or whatever they wouldn't have time to find. And so a lot of investment has gone into machine learning to do products like stacks, but also to be able to really surface the right live bets to customers to help them build parlays when they do have a window of game stoppage or something like that. Because, you know, it's just not the same as pre match where you can sit there and browse around and build your parlays and mess around with it if you want to. Even pre match by the way, we're trying to make it quicker and easier. So it's kind of a theme throughout, but I think it's absolutely essential to drive live betting. So I think that's the next big vector. You mentioned, you know, uptime. We're obviously working on that, but that has some point where, you know, gonna have diminishing returns. We already have very high uptime. So we can definitely do a little better there, but I I think, you know, the the surface we we what we've done is we built out a lot of the content, And I think the next big unlock is gonna be how do we more effectively use machine learning to surface and get people to engage with all the content that we built out in a much faster time frame. And I mean, if you wouldn't mind, take us into the tent a little bit on just what it's like to be sitting at DraftKings headquarters as all this starts to pile up going into is it do you do you see the the the amount you know, when when does the when does the amount of activity kind of peak or crest, especially when you go into a huge acquisition driven event like, you know, like a, you know, a kickoff for, you know, for the beginning of a season game or the Super Bowl? What's it like? What are you watching? Are you, you know, are you getting like, are you sitting in a war room somewhere watching things just stack up and the action come in? How how is it? I'm here. How is it? You, Sean. I mean, well, because okay. Because I'm here today, I'll be following it on my phone. But, know, if it like, if I were at the office, we have a room called the NOC that has all of the same types of metrics, but usually I follow this stuff on my phone, and it's fun. I I never I am telling you even now, this many years in, it is It's like Christmas. I feel like so excited watching the numbers go up. It's thrilling. Everything just goes up and up through the weekend. Right? And the other thing is it's almost like report card time too. All the stuff we've been working all summer and really all year to get ready for this time of year is all shipping and we're seeing how do customers like these products we've created. Are they engaging? Are they having the effects we want? And sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. But this year, I I feel better. I I am more confident in the products that we released this year than I think I have ever been. So it just feels right now like we're executing well, and we have some really good stuff lined up. And, know, obviously, if you talk to my tech team, it's the worst day of the year for them because they're all like only bad things can happen from our world this year. My co founder Paul, who who runs our product and technology team tells me he is most hated day of the year is first day of that. I'm like, that's like my favorite. What are you talking about? He's like Super Bowls up there too. I'm like, yeah, I get it because like for him, he's like, look, I I could feel great and it could go perfectly and no one says a word to me. I'm only gonna hear if I'm down for five seconds. It's like all downside, no upside for them. But they they they rally and you know, is also the time of year where they're shipping everything too. When everybody's off vacationing in the Hamptons, we're shipping all our product for NFL season. So know, people have been working too, and it's been like a real push to get ready and get out. So it's gratifying to see all that coming together. Well, hopefully, there's a a big room and a and a big amount of appetizers and know, some pizza. Pizza and wings tonight. Yeah. Yeah. For for the relief. And we'll we'll we'll be shooting for, you know, a 100% uptime. But you've been stress tested there, I'm sure. So with a little bit of remaining time that we have left, we'd love to get in a couple of the sort of financial and regulatory pieces. You know, let's start with the the three letter word that feels like a four letter word, which is tax. You know, this has been a sort of a moving target for everyone in the industry. You know, yourself, analysts, investors, it's just been a frustrating, you know, experience to kinda try and lock down that we kinda get to the spring period, and we have, you know, some, you know, you know, some some new movement. It's it feels like each year. So just kinda, you know, tell us about how you're thinking about working with states, partnering with states, you know, in kind of this balance between, you know, the situation we ultimately ended up in Illinois with sort of the more proactive discussions you've had to kinda, you know, express the industry's viewpoint around, you know, what's the right balance for governments to optimize their revenue? You know, it's a great question because, obviously, it's something that, you know, in the last couple years has been top of mind, and we're operating in a lot of states now. So the reality is not a year is going to go by where we don't have at least one state, probably multiple, that is trying to do something we don't like. And probably not a year will go by where the opposite is true too, where there's good things happening in in at least one or two states, if not more. That's just the reality of us being in so many different states now. So on the one hand, it's kinda nice to operate that way because it diversifies it. Unlike, you know, The UK raised taxes a few years ago, it's the whole country at once. You know, we're not we're we're maybe gonna get a handful of states, maybe no states, but not gonna likely ever be a situation where the whole country goes up at the same time. So that's nice to be a little more diversified, but it also makes it a bit of a game of whack a mole. So much fun or not fun as you have following it. Imagine me chasing around all this stuff and visiting with politicians and all the things to to try to educate and have these conversations. I would say the good news though is that most people get it, and I think the candidates for high taxes are kind of, you know, for the most part, not that there won't be any more tax increases, but for like actual just high taxes, I think they're already at pretty high levels. And so, know, could you see some states that are low now, maybe, you know, raising it up a little bit to be more close to where the average is? I wouldn't be surprised to see that, but I don't think there are many, if any, states left that are strong candidates for just outrageously high tax rates like what we have in New York or Illinois. So that's the good news. I think a lot of that's been exhausted, and I think that more likely than not, the next focus will be iGaming for new sources of revenue in some of those states. And obviously, that's a big opportunity for us. One other thing too, want to make sure because I know we only have a few more minutes to get into that. I'm excited about to start this NFL season is last year as you know, we acquired Jackpockets. Mhmm. Jackpocket had the whole thesis was they're gonna get these huge jackpots and we're gonna acquire all these customers and cross sell and literally hadn't had a single one go anywhere high for the year plus, almost year and a half now until now. And now we're at a billion plus dollar jackpot. The next drawing's on Saturday, first weekend of NFL, couldn't be better timing. Our acquisition numbers on that are crazy high right now. Our cross sell numbers, I'll know more after tonight, but looking really good going into tonight's game. So I feel like that the whole thesis behind that deal is now finally happening and couldn't be happening at a better time with the start of NFL. So hopefully, we'll have some good data on that coming out. That's a it's a really interesting point. And yeah, I actually logged in and in anticipation of of this conversation was, you know, checking with how Jackpocket is working and integrated with the app, you know, the feature functionality. It works phenomenally well. It it shows shows right on there that the billion 4. I got my two, you know, my my two lottery tickets in, so $4 to the plus Uh-huh. Until you until you owe me a billion. But We want what the state was. But but is that the magic is that the magic number? Is it you know, the billion dollar jackpot, is that what puts it, you know, that kinda really puts on the map for, you know, and that is that kinda where you see things go exponential from an activity base? It's just a I mean, there's like the psychology of a billion, I think. As it grows, it goes up. I mean, when it was like $7.50 or whatever, we're still seeing this. But once it gets to a billion, it's like it touches a whole new level. And I think also that combined with we are so out there marketing, not just that, but sports and everything is just driving a tremendous amount of activity because obviously we're acquiring a lot of customers, but we're also getting a ton of engagement from existing customers who may be coming on similar to what you just described to check out the product for NFL. And then I, oh, the billion dollar jackpot, I can buy a couple tickets here. And we just finished that integration recently too. So that also worked out very fortunately timing wise. That was done, you know, really in the last month or so. So, you know, everything kinda clicked timing wise here. Keep me honest here, but I believe when you log into the DraftKings app, a little floater comes up that's like, there's a billion dollar, you know, like, there there's a huge lottery ticket, you know, link out to to the jack pocket app, and then and then off you go. Exactly. Because we were able to do the integration in time for this, a lot of the cross sell that we had planned, which wouldn't have been possible before, is now being executed. Because there's a lot of things that have to do with, linking data and linking accounts that are allowing us to target and to get people to easily convert that would not have been possible before that integration project. Integration, I mean the technology integration. And are there any more big milestones on that integration in terms of ultimately separate, you know, kind of button or menu at the bottom on the app? Is that not necessary? Is this the right kind of balance of, you know, app identity if you will? And and where are we at with Shared Wallet? So what's good is now with the tech integration, we can do any of that quite easily in terms of the front end stuff. Shared wallet is little bit more work but on its way. I think that, you know, largely it's done but it's it's still there's some work to clean up some things there. But, you know, the front end stuff is super simple and it's more about testing into it. One of the things that we're trying to balance is, you know, how how do you want to we have multiple products, like, and how do you feature different things in the app? Obviously, when you got a billion dollar jack pot, you want to do that, but we also have start of NFL happening. So how do you balance that? And then the iGaming team's like, wait a minute, all these new people coming in, we want you cross selling them to iGaming in the states that have iGaming. So it's definitely a balancing act, and we're just trying to be extremely data driven and testing driven with it. Nowadays, with the way that we've implemented a lot of things through the data science team, we can rapidly conduct tests and not have to like set each thing up, you know, individually. So we should be able to generate some pretty quick insights. So last area if I could, and I just wanna touch on sort of as we think about taxes and this will bridge me into margins. You do we or should investors be factoring in some headwind in future periods a bit like the volatility point around the midpoint for for broader guidance? This is something we should be thinking a little bit more proactively about. I mean, ultimately, you're still gonna scale and leverage the business and then bridge us from that, whatever that answer is, into sort of your long term margin goals and and, you know, what are what are we able to achieve here? So I think, yes, there there should be, but I believe we will be able to off set it through other means and we'll ultimately reach the 30 plus percent EBITDA margins that we believe we will reach. One of the things I think that we have recently come to believe will help if we end up, you know, losing a couple points of gross margin to taxes is our fixed cost growth. Particularly over the last year, we have seen tremendous momentum with an AI first mindset. And Alan, our CFO, basically has set a policy of outside AI engineers. You can't hire anybody next year unless you've already proven you can't do the same job with an AI agent. So it's really changing the mentality of people thinking like the next set of team I'm gonna manage are gonna be AI agents, not a bunch of people I'm gonna hire in. And I think that could potentially have real meaningful impact to our fixed cost profile several years out. And then, know, there's some other things too. Probably the biggest one that I think is upside from what we've previously said at investor days is our long term view on structural hold. I think we are much more bullish on it now than we were at our last investor day. We just have much more data and evidence that there's a higher ceiling than maybe what we had previously modeled. And so I think between those two things, we should be I mean, if you wanna break down the model, I'd say yes, technically, I would assume maybe some gross margin headwind from some tax increases. But I think you know, once you get down to the bottom line, it's offset elsewhere. So I don't think it actually impacts things. And if anything, I think we have a little bit of upside on the EBITDA margin. And then to put you on the spot too much about accounting nuance, but is the when you think about the engineering savings and some of the things you're able to do with, you know, agentic AI, is that more on the an offset within the gross the the you know, the the gross margin side or is that the p and t cost? Like, is that Probably more fixed cost. Really just it's not the here's the thing is it's not engineering is not where this is limited to. It is the whole company. I mean, you know, you have customer service, you have so you have processes that are being run manually throughout the entire company that we are rapidly converting to agent driven processes now. And this is just the beginning. I mean, this is gonna only from here, it gets better and better, I think, as the technology improves and as we figure out more applications of it. But it's the whole company. We have biz dev people writing RFPs using AI now. Like, it's just work that used to take hours and hours, sometimes days, is being done in a fraction of the time with less people needed. Just really hoping my boss isn't listening too closely because I feel like research analysts might be next on that list of No. No. You got Oops. You got a little time. Employment. I think we're all eventually on that list, but I I think you got a little time, Sean. Awesome. Thank you, Jason. Really appreciate you doing Thanks coming out, Jack.