It's a great pleasure of mine to welcome back to our Communicopia + Technology Conference, Nick Jeffery, the President and CEO of Frontier Communications. Nick, thanks for coming back. Great to be here. Thanks. All right, so when you and your senior management team joined Frontier almost three years ago, you outlined what I think a lot of people thought of as a pretty ambitious plan: to transform a recently bankrupt regional telco with a legacy network into a fiber-based broadband provider. How do you believe that Frontier is tracking against that original business plan? Yeah, I kind of remember that time when a lot of people were saying, like, "Hey, why did you give up a career at Vodafone? It was going really, really well, and, you know, 30-odd years in the business to come," as you say, to what was then a company in bankruptcy with a legacy telco heritage and a big DSL network. And the answer is, really, that I saw the most amazing opportunity here, almost unique in the world, because fiber is a product that people fundamentally want. It is the best connectivity product. In fact, there will never be a better one, because nothing will ever go faster than the speed of light. Fiber penetration here in the U.S. is very low by international standards. Demand is growing month after month, quarter after quarter, and perhaps most importantly, the market structure here is highly attractive. In 86% of our base, I have one or fewer gig-plus capable competitors. And as you'll know, and people in the audience will know, market structure is probably the primary determinant on high return on capital. Now, add to the fact the company coming out of bankruptcy had a clean balance sheet, capacity to invest. We saw an opportunity to take a legacy copper DSL business and transform it into a high-growth digital infrastructure company based on providing high-speed symmetrical fiber to consumers and businesses and our wholesale customers as well. To do that, we oriented the company around a very simple purpose, we call it Building Gigabit America, and a simple strategy, which says we're gonna build fiber, sell fiber, improve customer care, and become more efficient. I think over the first two and a half years or so, apart from being great fun, and I love being in the States, we're doing well on all of those. We've expanded the fiber network by about 80% in the last two and a half years, remembering that Frontier had never built any fiber before. We've added 40% to our customer base. Our Net Promoter Score is at an all-time high. You may say, "Well, so what?" That really translates through into a better customer experience. Just a stat that, you know, people might like here, this year, 1 million fewer people have called our call centers, while our customer base has grown by 40%. And that really tells you they're having a better experience. And then make the business more efficient. When we set out, we said we were going to take at least $250 million of cost out of the business. We've since been able to double that to $500 million. I'm really pleased to say we're on track to deliver that. Coupled with the fact we had an opportunity to build a new talented board, which is great. They're very supportive and bring real industry depth to bear, and a great new executive team. So at least in my books, I'm happy where we've got to. There's a lot more to be done, but this is a great place to be. Well, let's talk about the scaling of the fiber business. You've outlined your expectations around where you'll be on the penetration curve as your cohorts begin to age. So you're targeting 15%-20% penetration within 12 months of deploying new fiber, 25%-30% within 24, and then eventually a mid-40% over time. Generally speaking, the cohorts have been performing where you would have expected, some of them have outperformed. 2021 has been a very, very slight laggard. Can you just revisit for us, what was it about that cohort that was a little bit different and maybe is not indicative of what we should be expecting across the group? Yeah, I mean, just to remind people, our terminal penetration objective we've set for the build overall is 45%. Yep. We think that's very reasonable, because if we think about the fiber footprint we've built and split it into two halves, the first half is the fiber we inherited through the Verizon and AT&T acquisitions, the fiber that Frontier had before we started building. Our penetration there is 43% already today and growing at about 1%-2% a year. That means, of course, that some states and cities have much higher penetration than that already, some a bit lower, but we're marching already towards that 45% terminal penetration. And that's a good indicator of what should be possible in the new fiber that we're building. And there, as you rightly say, we have two objectives: in our 12-month build cohort, 15%-20% penetration, our 24-month cohort, 25%-35% penetration, and we're tracking very well towards those targets. But to answer your question directly, the 2021 cohort was actually 638,000 fiber connections that were built largely before the new executive team were in place, and largely before our new pricing, marketing, channel, distribution, digital capabilities were in place. So where those have been in place is the 2022 cohort of 1.2 million fiber homes, where we're tracking exactly where we said we should be. Now, within that first 2021 cohort of 638,000, roughly 40% of that base has hit the two-year mark already, and is at about 24% penetration. So pretty much in the range we'd like. The balancing 60% of that cohort will hit the two-year mark in the second half of this year, and as it does, I'm confident that whole cohort will move into the range that we've targeted. We've been getting more questions around seasonal dynamics. I think as the entire economy and market has kind of you know, come out of COVID, and we're sort of operating as normal now, some of the seasonal dynamics have been maybe a little less intense, some of them have been a bit more intense. What's the right way of thinking about the extent to which seasonality affects your business quarter to quarter, versus the scaling on the penetration curve? And then we've been getting some very specific questions recently about 3Q around some of the storms that have passed nearby some of your markets and through some of your markets. What are the puts and takes or anything we should be thinking about as we get ready for your next earnings cycle? Yeah, look, as we said in Q2, Q2 is typically a quarter where we do get some seasonality, headwinds, you know, lower move activity, lower churn activity. And I think it's fair to say we see some of that carried into Q3, and I know some of your other speakers have said the same—they're seeing the same dynamic. At the same time, we are continually adjusting our go-to-market skills, capabilities, channel, mix, proposition, and so on. And as I said in the Q2 results, we put new sales leadership in place in Q2, and of course, they're still adjusting the mix pretty much day in, day out, looking to find the sweet spots to drive things in Q3. But it is certain to say that we see some of the same market dynamics and sort of dampening down that others have talked about on this stage. In terms of the hurricanes, of course, we get impacted by those in our markets in Florida and sometimes in Texas and California, as others do. We've been relatively lucky on two fronts. Firstly, we've put a lot of effort into anticipating these events. They happen every year here. It's unfortunate that they do, but they do. And I think our whole resilience around standing up quickly to get customers connected again and to make sure they're well communicated to, and they really understand what we are doing to help them get back online if they've been taken offline by a storm, much, much better than it used to be. And then, you know, with some serendipity, the storms, when they have hit, have tended to hit markets where we have a much higher percentage of buried infrastructure, which is much more storm resilient than aerial. So actually, our customers have been relatively less impacted than they could have been. Okay, so we're looking at the penetration curve in the most recent cohorts. We're looking at a little less dynamic seasonality and nothing too severe on the storms. Correct. That's the framework for thinking about. Yeah. Okay, thank you. On the competition side, so the major cable operators have seen their broadband subscriber growth essentially come to a halt, Mm-hmm. Over the last year and a half. You know, they say it's due to lower activity in the market, and there might be, but it's pretty clear the competition from you, competition from fixed wireless providers, has contributed to that. And so they've had to go back and kind of recalibrate how they're going to market, and they've really kind of leaned into these converged service bundles. And it at least seems to be helping with the wireless side. Generally speaking, how would you frame the competitive response that cable has kind of adjusted to and the extent to which it's impacted your business, and have you had to make any adjustments based on how they've been adjusting? Yeah. Well, look, it's a competitive market and one that's constantly evolving and keeps us on our toes, no doubt. But if we take a step back, the notion of value-added services as part of our proposition, we said two years ago, is really important. And over the course of the last couple of quarters, we've taken some very purposeful, well-considered, I think, steps to change our approach to pricing and bundling and products. Most notably, we've extended our price ladder on speeds, so 0.5 gig, 1 gig, 2 gig, 5 gig, and we've debundled our value-added services. We used to add value-added services in for free, and we've now split those out, things like whole home Wi-Fi, premium tech support, security, things like that, and we started charging for them. What's been really interesting is that our gig mix, so these are customers who take 1 gig and above, has continued to accelerate. It's now well north of 50% of all new customers take 1 gig and above. Mm-hmm. Value-added services that we used to give away for free, our take rate has now doubled with more than 1/3 of new customers taking one or more value-added services now that we charge for them. I don't know what economists would call that. I think it's a Giffen good or something like that, but charging for something has actually made customers buy more of it rather than less of it. You know, TV would be another good example where we've now got a broad range of over-the-top TV offers, whether that's Apple TV, MyBundle, DIRECTV Stream, or YouTube TV. We've got a very dynamic sort of bundling, marketing effort going on, trying to find the sweet spot for customers, where we add real value continually for the best product at a great price in the market. That's how we compete with the dynamic that you're talking about with cable, who, of course, are trying to do the same thing. Now, the next of it is we continue to take share primarily from cable in most of our markets. You know the follow-up question, which you've gotten before, is whether you need to have mobile in the bundle. I think whenever that question comes up, it's always positioned as you becoming an MVNO, which is a lot of work. Not that you don't know how to do it, but it's a lot of work. Are there other ways you can create the value of a bundle, maybe with someone else's product? I mean, T-Mobile has said they're looking to work with, you know, fiber providers as a way to help them. How are you thinking about this broadly? Yeah, look, we talk to all the cellular operators all the time, and we think about this dynamic constantly with the executive team and with the board. Should we have a mobile offer? Well, I think that depends on a couple of things. Firstly, when does consumer behavior change, so that that shows up in our numbers as a must-have, in order for us to compete and grow our fiber penetration and keep our churn low? Now, the fact is today, we're growing fiber penetration nicely, and churn remains stubbornly low, so we don't see that impacting us yet. Now, if that dynamic changed, could we spin up an MVNO or maybe a synthetic MVNO, a bundle with somebody else's? Yes, and that's something I think we've got the skills and the team to do, both with my background in Vodafone. John Harrobin, our Head of Consumer, used to be the Head of Marketing at Verizon Wireless. Vishal Dixit, our Head of Strategy, used to run MVNOs in the U.K. Veronica Bloodworth, our Head of Networks, used to run AT&T cellular network nationally. Our Chairman, John Stratton, used to run Verizon Wireless. We've got a lot of cellular mobile knowledge in the company, but we haven't seen the trigger yet, although we look at it constantly, and if there's a trigger, we'll spin up an MVNO or something similar pretty quickly. I think the broader dynamic, though, is really on mobile being bundled with cable and others as convergence begins to take root in the States, and the data is unambiguous. Convergence is taking root in the States. One of the spinoffs for us is that as it takes root, our competitors are tending to bundle cellular with cable, heavily discount the cellular in order to create a sort of inflationary price umbrella for their cable offer, and that's a dynamic that actually suits us very well. Okay. I was gonna ask you, I've been asking a lot of others about, convergence and whether you think of it as a product strategy or a network strategy. Sounds like you see it as mostly a product strategy, but maybe, maybe I'm misreading you. No, it's both, of course. And I think some of your other speakers have talked about the importance of fiber in a convergence world, where fiber is everything, and it depends what you hang off the end of it. Absolutely true. But convergence also changes the customer dynamic and the market dynamic, particularly where you have a heavy asymmetry of assets, by which I mean some have great cellular coverage, but limited fixed coverage, or some have a lot of fixed coverage and limited cellular coverage. Now, what we know from studying other converging markets around the world is once convergence starts, it almost never, in fact, as far as I know, never goes into reverse. It accelerates. Does it create value? Rarely for operators. Is it stoppable? Probably not. In that context, I think Frontier's got a very interesting position because the scarcest of all assets in a converging market where there's an asymmetry of asset ownership, is fiber. Frontier is the second-largest builder of fiber in the U.S. and the largest pure-play fiber provider. What's the broad utilization of that fiber, right? We, we think so much of the fiber to the home, part of what you're doing. It's a huge part of what you're doing. But is the fiber that you're deploying, you have this sort of new integrated approach to deploying fiber that your management team put in place. Do you view it as having more broad use cases, such we shouldn't just be thinking of you as connecting homes? Absolutely. When we build an area, we've talked previously about our integrated build approach. It means we go for maximum build efficiency, and that means we build past consumer homes, businesses, multi-dwelling units, addressable cell towers, and build that very efficiently so that we can then, in period or in later periods, go back and fire up those connections as we sell into them. Now, a great example of that might be how we're now very successfully monetizing our wholesale deal with AT&T. We've talked previously about how important that was to us and then how the order book was growing, and now that order book is translating through into real orders and revenue. That's in part because we pre-built to many of the sites that we could later go back and connect up in a very, very efficient way. The same is true with business. We talked about small-medium business being a great opportunity for Frontier. Why? Because small, medium businesses tend to buy the same kind of connectivity as consumers do. High-speed fiber or high-speed, high-bandwidth Ethernet, both of which, you know, of course, we, we built out. But we built out to customers in a very efficient way, but we didn't necessarily go and sell to them until we could build a sales and marketing engine at scale with equal efficiency. As soon as we did that, our SMB business started to grow and is one of the reasons why our enterprise and wholesale business combined, our commercial segment, returned to growth in the last quarter, and I'm very, very pleased with the progress we're making there. I wanna come back to how you're going to market, mostly in the residential side. I wanna talk a little bit about ARPU. So your fiber broadband ARPU is about $63 right now. It's not terribly different than the broadband ARPU we see at the cable operators. But in some ways, that ARPU has been constrained. You talked about giving away value-added services for free. Yeah. You've been doing a lot of promotions around gift cards to help sort of reestablish the Frontier brand in markets where it had almost gone dormant. How are you thinking about the right outlook and drivers for broadband ARPU from here? Yeah. I mean, you're right, you're right. If we just wind back, not very long in time, a couple of years ago, we had to kind of kickstart this company back in, into growth with a brand that was tarnished, to be polite, and, a company that wasn't as operationally excellent as I'd like it to be. So in that scenario, of course, you have to kind of pump the machine a little bit. We had to put some gift cards in, we had to make, you know, give, give customers reasons to talk to us so that we could then deliver service and prove that we are a company worth giving your hard-earned cash to. Now, of course, as the brand is repaired, as we've invested in systems, processes, people, infrastructure, all that capability, which goes to create a better and then good customer service. So we can repair the brand and repair our pricing strategy in parallel. And that's exactly what we're doing. That's why we removed the use of gift cards, we unbundled value-added services, and that has flown through exactly as I would like it to have done into our acquisition ARPU, which is now in the $70 range. ARPU is growing. We think there's a lot of headroom for it to grow further because we're still operating with a premium product at a discount to the market price in a broadly price inflationary market. And that gives us a lot of headroom for prices to increase with inflation, ARPU to increase as customers take faster speeds, and ARPU to increase as customers take more products and services from us. So we think we're very pleased with where we're at. We think there's quite a lot of headway still to go. Has it shifted the trajectory of the subscriber growth rate? Meaning normally you would assume that if price points are going higher or if promos are being taken out of the market, inevitably there'd be a little headwind on whatever subscriber momentum you've had. Are you seeing that, or do you feel fairly comfortable that you are finding the right balance here? Well, look, as I said earlier, Q2 was a quarter with kind of suppressed activity. Mover and churn activity was lower, and I think that's carried forward a little into Q3, as other speakers have said. But I don't think we're seeing a negative pressure on gross adds as a result of our pricing adjustments. And the reason for that is that when we launched, we launched with a very purposeful best product for a competitive price position. Now, since then, the market has gone up, we've gone up, but we've maintained the same price positioning, best product for premium price. And that's still a valid discussion to have on the doorstep, to have with customers. It's still great value for money. I think customers see that. What about on the churn side? You actually report churn. Thank you, by the way, for doing that. You can't control move-related churn. As a regional operator, there's always gonna be a level there. What are you seeing of the churn profile of customers who are in the newer fiber cohorts? Is it where you would expect it to be, or is there some opportunity to do better? Look, there's always opportunity to do better. I can, I can feel my team smiling as I, as I say that. There's always opportunity to do better. But look, I'm very, I'm very pleased with our churn performance, and it's related to our improvements in NPS, where we're seeing now record levels, high levels of NPS, both in terms of brand NPS and touch point NPS. Why? Because we're giving customers fewer reasons to complain, fewer reasons to be dissatisfied, fewer reasons to consider alternatives. At the same time as we continue to improve our core offer. Better speeds, better value, more services, more reasons to be with Frontier. And we are just at the start of this. We have got a whole roadmap of products and services, coming down the line, which I'm super excited about and look forward to telling you about in subsequent meetings, perhaps. All right. Let's talk about the pace of the fiber deployment. Your intent is for the network to reach 10 million customer locations with fiber, basically about two to three years from now. And that would be a pace of about 1.3 million new fiber additions, fiber passings in the footprint per year until you get to that point. It's actually very, very close to that plan you laid out almost three years ago, despite a lot of disruption in supply chains, inflationary pressures. And you're actually expecting that this is the peak year of CapEx, that you'll be at the same pace of fiber expansion next year, but that CapEx will actually be lower. Why is that? Yeah. Well, thank you, firstly, for recognizing that we've done what we said we would do. I have to admit, as I would say to our chairman and our board, when we first put those numbers out a couple of years ago, we'd never built any fiber nor sold any, so it was a big step into the dark. But I'm very pleased with the way the team has executed ruthlessly and with such laser focus, to try and make sure that Frontier is always a company that does what it says it was gonna do, and that's pretty much what we've stuck to. Despite there being some, you know, significant externalities that have come and sideswiped off the rest of the industry, but we've recovered, adjusted, and moved forward with. So, you know, I'm really pleased with the way that that's gone so far. The declining capital intensity next year, what's behind that? Yeah, well, this year, as we said in previous meetings, the CapEx was high in the first half of the year. That's partly because there was some inflationary flow-through, as you know, we're not immune from inflation, despite the fact we've got multiple long-term contracts locked in with most of our equipment and labor vendors, which gives us great certainty now about those costs going forward. But also, we opportunistically took the chance to buy inventory at a moment when the rest of the industry was reducing the pace of their build. Actually, we increased ours from 1.2 million to 1.3 million, and we saw an opportunity to take stock at an attractive price that we then knew we could use up over the rest of this year and subsequent years. Then lastly, the CapEx profile of a business building fiber like ours is heavily influenced by the mix of the build itself. You know, how much is aerial, how much is buried? Within buried, how much is rock versus non-rock, and so on. As that topology changes with each build cohort we do in different geographies, so we can manage that build cost down. When we look at the build cost overall, we've said, originally that we would build the 10 million fiber homes for between $900 and $1,000. We're now saying that over that same 10 million, it'll be about $1,000 in total, and then for this year, a little bit more than that. Next year, a little bit more than that, but coming back to that overall envelope of $1,000 per home passed. Anything else that you can see on the horizon that could cause any disruption to this plan, whether it's the pacing, the cost, you always have to do your union negotiations? Anything we should be monitoring here? Well, as you might, you may know, we've just actually secured a whole bunch of new union negotiations and contracts. I'm very confident about that, coupled with our multi-year labor and equipment contracts we've now got in place, that that component of the cost is pretty much stable. Look, I think if we look forward and think about the potential to maybe accelerate the build, or if we end up with more customers than we planned, which of course pulls through more CapEx in terms of cost to connect, those are sort of things that could possibly push up the CapEx envelope, but those are great things. Those are things I'd be really happy about if they haven't. Pending that, of course, who knows? The world has been a slightly crazy place for the last couple of years, and there's always externalities. But those to one side, I think we're very confident. In the cost to connect, you'd outlined some targets there. Mm-hmm. Are you gaining efficiencies that are helping with some of the inflation you're seeing or? Yeah, look, I mean, cost to connect for us is driven by two things maybe. Mainly it's the labor cost and the equipment cost, and we see those two things being largely static, actually, for the time being. The thing that's really gonna change the cost to connect over time is as we build out our fiber network, as we connect more customers, each of those connections requires a truck roll and some equipment. That's what that cost is. But then the next customer that comes into that same household can simply connect without a truck roll and without new equipment. And that's when self-install starts to become a material thing for us, and that's when our cost to connect will materially start to come down. But we've got to kind of build that critical scale of passings and connections before that starts to flow through. Got it. Your outlook for this year is to achieve both revenue growth and EBITDA growth. Revenue probably depends on what happens with your video business, which doesn't make any money for you, but the EBITDA growth is a little bit more meaningful, I think, to investors. How should we be thinking about, you know, the puts and takes of the pacing of revenue growth and EBITDA growth as you kind of move past these inflection points? You know, what ambitiously are you looking to do? Yeah. Well, look, I'm-- I am super pleased that we have got back to growing EBITDA, as we talked about last quarter. That is the first time this business has done, delivered EBITDA growth in at least 10 years. And, if there's anything that really frames well all the work we're doing, it's that. And I see that accelerating over the course of the second half. And look, on, on revenue growth, we said we were down, I think, 0.6% in the last results we talked about. If you strip out our very low-margin video business, as you say, I think that comes back to about 1%, growth, versus a market that was, like, down... Sorry, versus our performance last year, which was down about 9%. So a huge swing already. We're gonna march steadily towards revenue growth, underpinned by consistent EBITDA growth on a sustainable basis. That is what this business is about. In sketching out the revenue growth profile of the company, it's not terribly hard. You know, we have our outlook for what we think is gonna happen with your fiber subscribers. You know, the copper business is less and less of a problem just because it's so much smaller. We have ARPU. You alluded to before, you're now pivoting in the growth in business and wholesale, and that's not something we're accustomed to seeing at any telco. So can you spend a little more time? What's driving that, and, and how do you think about what the growth potential of that business can be? Yeah. Again, really pleased that we've got that business back to growth. When we think about our commercial segment, business to business is really our enterprise business, our wholesale business together. I mean, look, as I said before, we've hired two great new leaders for those two businesses who really know what they're talking about. They've now been in place just a year, but have already put in place new teams, new pricing strategies, new commercial strategies, new marketing, new products, and started to rebuild relationships with the market. And that is flowing through into great results. On the wholesale side, we talked about our AT&T contract, as I said earlier, flowing through into an increased order book, now flowing through into revenue. Very pleased about that. That itself is has opened the door to other wholesale conversations where we, we are regaining our credibility as a wholesale supplier, which I think we'd lost in the past. So that business is growing. And in enterprise, I think people often misunderstand what our enterprise business is. Because we think about the kind of business AT&T or Verizon has, big, complicated customers, typically low margin, very sophisticated, understand this industry as well as we do. But to be clear, we have none of those customers. Our customers in enterprise are all much smaller, typically small, medium-sized businesses or very small businesses, who want to buy products that are very similar to the products that our consumers buy: high-speed symmetrical fiber, high-speed Ethernet. And we've rebuilt those businesses from scratch, firstly, through our integrated build program, making sure we had enough passings, and then when we did, firing up our sales and marketing, go-to-market engines. And that has worked really, really well. So very pleased with the operational progress we've made there. But finally, we're a very small part of the enterprise market. So if the enterprise market overall, which is huge in the States, is coming down by 9%, we're a tiny subset of that. We've got a lot of potential to grow and take share, even in a declining market. ... I want to talk a bit about margins. You have EBITDA margins in the 30s% right now. You've talked about getting mid- to high-40% EBITDA margins over a certain planning period. But if I go and I look at telecom operators whose businesses are not burdened by legacy technologies, so some of the big wireless carriers, I think, would fall into that category, some of the big cable companies, like Comcast, breaks out its business segment now. So businesses that not only have no legacy technologies, they generally have very little to no legacy revenues. We're looking at EBITDA margins greater than 55%, in some cases north of 60%. It would seem like there's a long runway for growth. How do you think about what the long-term margin profile Frontier really should be as you complete this transformation to fiber infrastructure? Yeah. Well, I'd agree with you. There's a lot of potential for margin growth over time. In a sense, the cable companies and us are similar, in that we've got, you know, high fixed overheads and, you know, business that can grow on top of that. But in another sense, we're very different. Fiber infrastructure is fundamentally more efficient. It's a passive infrastructure. It doesn't use electricity. And then, as we grow our fiber passings and grow our EBITDA on the back of that, we're also going to see margin improvement, I think, begin to flow through in a very consistent way over time as we become more and more efficient. So I, like you, see a lot of potential for margin growth in this business, and that's something we'll look forward to delivering in future years. All right, last question here. You recently secured $2.1 billion of committed financing in what was really a first of its kind, fiber securitization among a public company. We've seen some in the private space. I don't believe we've seen this among public companies. First of all, to what extent do you feel like that's addressed the funding needs that the company has? And bigger picture, how do you feel about Frontier's ability to fully fund the fiber build that you've outlined? Yeah. Well, look, first of all, I think we're very, very proud to be the first kind of scale public company to do a fiber securitization. And that $2.1 billion gives us funding through to the end of 2025, and a very clear path through to funding our committed build of 10 million. In fact, we only securitized about 11% of our built fiber network to get $2.1 billion. And for us, it was interesting as well. I mean, the debt per passing ascribed in this deal was $3,400, which is, you know, a sharp contrast to the public market valuations of the same thing. So itself is a very interesting for us and something for us to think about why those two things are different. But it also gives us a very attractive pool of financing into the future. Firstly, to complete our 10 million build, but then maybe to do other things beyond that as well. So, very, very encouraged by the progress we're making there, think it's an exciting development. And to your question, about being asked about this, I've been in investor meetings all morning, and the single question I have not been asked is: How are you going to fund the rest of the build? It's the first time that's happened, so it must be flowing through somehow. Oh, well, that's a high point. So let's leave it at that. Nick, thanks so much for being here. A pleasure. Thank you.