Good morning, everyone. My name is Adrien de Saint Hilaire. I've got the immense pleasure of being a Media analyst at Bank of America, based in London, covering the agency space. A s part of this, it is my immense pleasure to welcome Philippe Krakowsky. Philippe is the CEO of Interpublic. Philippe, you need no introduction. For those of you that don't know you, you are indeed the CEO of IPG. So thank you very much for being with us today. So we've got Philippe for about 40 minutes. If you have any questions, we will give you an opportunity to ask some of these questions towards the end of the presentation. But for the time being, I'll kick off with some questions. Absolutely. Why don't we go straight into, like, what happened over the last couple of months, the last few months. Q2 was a little difficult compared to our expectations. Likewise. Expectations. But on, on the brighter side of things, you've gone into the second half being better, up 3%-5% organically, from the Q2 level. So can you talk to us about the drivers of that improvement? What's the bridge between, you know, some new account wins, perhaps? Sure. I mean, I guess what I would do to answer the question is maybe back up a tiny bit and just talk about what has impacted the first half, because then in terms of the change and what's going to, to our mind, result in the second half performance. So I think that what you have is you've got some segment issues, for lack of a better term, or sort of sector-wide concerns around, particularly technology clients and the degree to which austerity in the tech sector has sort of found its way into its behavior or, you know, the activity that we engage in with some very, very large, you know, say, six or eight of the largest technology companies globally. So I think that's one. T he other thing that we called out, going back now two quarters, and I think that the progression was two quarters ago, indicating to all of you that what we had was a sentiment on the part of clients that with the macro uncertainty, they were beginning to ask questions around, "Help us plan for contingencies, help us think about what might be the case should there be a broader economic slowdown." I think what we began to see is, you know, clients pausing activity. So those are the, those are the macro elements that have impacted our performance. And then the tech piece has, has had a particularly dramatic impact on two of our digital forward agencies, which traditionally have been both strong growers and, and innovation drivers for us. I n the back half, as you said, I think that what we see impacting the back half for us is a very, very strong first half in terms of new business. So I would say that it's either us or PDCs who are leading the industry in terms of revenue that we've brought in from very, very large account wins with our very integrated, data-driven, you know, sort of the most sophisticated elements of what we do, data plus media, very targetable and addressable, work. T he two parts of the business that have performed very well for us over that multi-year outperformance have been media and then our healthcare marketing, you know, segment, which over that five, six, seven-year period, we grew from range and bearing, you know, 15% of our revenue base to north of 25. So as we look at the back half of the year, we see new business at scale beginning to phase in. It will not all actually be on stream by year-end. Quite a bit of it will actually kind of come on board also in early 2024. M edia and healthcare, which are our strong performers, continuing to pull through in the back half. When we had a conversation with Ellen about three months ago, this was right in the middle of the Upfronts, which were a bit mixed, so to say, if we put it mildly. How would you characterize the broader ad markets at the moment? Are we seeing some acceleration, some weakening, stabilization from the Q2 trends? I mean, I think it's harder to call that than it used to be, because what you're seeing is an underlying shift. So I mean, if you look at us from a client sector, six of maybe, you know, of the eight, industry sectors that our clients, that we bucket our clients into, you know, have been up through the first half. So it's more that, as I said, we're sensing that clients are pausing because there's still some uncertainty. I think the other observation I would just have, at least in the U.S., is that, you know, if you look at the economic growth that we're seeing, some of it is happening in places that's not actually an addressable market for any of us in our space. Because if you're going, you know, gonna see infrastructure help the economy, if you're gonna see kind of greening and early stage technologies take... you know, getting a lot of investment, electrifying, getting, you know, automotive electrification up and down both coasts, et cetera, that's probably a little further down the tracks for any of us in terms of those becoming companies that are at a scale that they then require our help. But how do I see the market? I think it's, there's a measure of conservatism, and then what's really happening is share shift. I mean, so linear clearly continues to suffer, and we've all asked ourselves for a long time, and you and I have talked about this for a long time, you know, when does that model ultimately, you know, whatever the right, you know, when, when does, when do we abandon it? When does it break, as it were? You're seeing more inventory in CTV, which is actually good for us because we, we have made big investments in, in data and addressability and, and, sort of data-informed decisioning or investments in media, are—we think are, are net positive for us. Y ou're seeing a lot move to, to retail media. I think to date, that one is a bit harder to, to, to size. You get very different, even from holding company to holding company, where we sort of try to understand the scale of that. We see a lot of growth. I t's harder to track at this point, how much client activity is going into those new channels, but it's definitely a big opportunity. Great. So I want to come back on one of the points that you made earlier about the technology sector. So a lot of these companies, without necessarily naming them, but they've been really successful financially on the stock market, you know, with those austerity measures. They have been rewarded for those austerity measures in the last 12 months, yep. So let me ask it this way: Why would they stop? Like, why would we imagine that it could reinvest then back into marketing, if the market seemingly rewards their austerity efforts around marketing? I mean, I guess I would flip that back onto you or onto, you know, a lot of the folks in the room here, because you're the folks who put capital to work. But I don't know that it's sustainable for companies that have been, and are rewarded for growth, to stay in that mode for an indeterminate period of time. So whether it's because there's been, you know, a slowdown or because there's been uncertainty and a sense that there might be, you know, a recession coming, whether here, whether in Europe, I would have called Europe wrong, because I would have thought Europe would be in recession by now. Still only a good call. That's a funny point. It's true. So to my mind, I don't think that austerity is the right long-term strategy for them to be rewarded or for them to create value. I think secondarily, if you look and if you speak to the leadership of a lot of those companies, I think there's an acknowledgment that there was whatever the right word is going to be, whether it's out over your skis or that there had been exuberance when it came to, you know, hiring, definitely, and then spending, maybe even disproportionately against some initiatives that clearly didn't pan out. Y ou understand why that discipline or that austerity has been seen as focus and has been rewarded, but I don't think that it's, it's in their long-term interests, because I don't think, I think they're, you know, they're clearly growth companies, and I don't see how economic growth is not gonna still be informed by the five or six big, big names in tech. Obviously, joined more recently by NVIDIA, which is, kind of adds another one. If we stick to that point for one more minute, how confident are you that from your conversation that you have with those executives, that Q2 was perhaps the bottom in terms of their marketing expenses or their marketing plans? Is there any? No, that one I can't call for you. Yeah. I mean, my sense is that to the extent that what we've seen in tech has clearly had a knock-on effect, and you've seen it probably called out in, I would think, almost every public comment made by anybody in our space. Marketing services. Yeah. You know, we provide professional services to that world, and, you know, we work with, I'd say, four or five of the largest and at scale. But I think it's too early to kind of call the turn there. I don't know that I would... I mean, I don't see it between now and the end of this year. Y ou know, as we begin conversations with them about activity for next year, that'll be later this year. S ome of them actually run on mid-year fiscal. And so then it'll actually be a bit later still, because it'll either be kind of November-ish conversations, you know, October, November for 2024, or it'll be first quarter conversations because some of them run- Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So on the brighter side, we talked about this net new business activity in the first half, which was really strong. Pfizer, Škoda, Intuit, just, just a few names that just spring to mind. Yes. But I'm missing a few. You are? Fine. I'm glad that we've made it hard for you to remember them all, actually. So talk to us about, like, why you think you've won those pitches. Are there any, like, common points between all these, all these pitches? What are the capabilities that IPG is bringing to the market that maybe other holding companies can't? Well, look, I mean, you've been sort of calling investors' attention to this for some time, but I think that, you know, there's definitely begun to be a differentiation among our peer set, and we were very early to it, in that some of us have scale data assets. And I think that those definitely are all a part of when you look at our sizable wins. And I think that, you know, they probably bucket into, you know, very large media consolidations, where what you have are clients who are looking to use the very sizable media budgets that they have and invest more intelligently. And their understanding of value is sort of evolved, and it used to be about efficiency, and now it's about effectiveness. So how do you use your marketing spend to drive business growth? So that's where, you know, we talk about, sort of moving upstream with clients or about really business transformation through, again, data combined with media. And then a few have been large integrated pitches, like a Pfizer, where what you have, again, is, you know, and I think the entire industry showed up for that because the scale of it, and they ended up splitting it between us and one other, you know, holding company. But that data spine, that backbone, that informs the decision making, but then also allows you to target. So then at the level of production, you're using that data to be, you know, to do, you know, personalization at scale, you know, sort of buzzword of the moment. But so we'll always plug those solutions into the sort of foundational data layer in the company. But that is about building your know-how in medical affairs and healthcare marketing and combining it with the creativity of the more, quote, traditional agencies. And I think, you know, people talk a lot about whether and the extent to which creativity is, you know, potentially at risk in this new world. And I think if it's connected to data and other areas where we've got specialization, then it can be quite powerful, and then also earn public relations work. So that was essentially... Those are, I think, the two, three through lines on a lot of these, you know, Constellation Brands, Bristol-Myers Squibb, and then some of the names you called out. Okay. Do you see a busy pipeline ahead in terms of pitches? Because it seems like H1 was fairly robust, but are there more things coming up sizable? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we've got a pretty healthy, I mean, I think the industry pipeline is pretty good. Ours is healthy. And then the sense is that there's more coming and that activity is actually, you know, been picking up. Yeah, great. Another thing which, unfortunately, was a drag in your performance in the first half, you talked about it, is R/GA and Huge which is quite intertwined with the fates and need of like the technology space. So where are we in the recovery for these two specialized agencies? What are the initiatives that you've taken to turn them around? I think just the backstory there is that obviously, when you do what those kinds of companies do, which is help clients innovate in digital channels, the rate of change is fairly high. And so every three to four years, you know, things that were at the leading edge have become... I'm not sure what the right word is, because, you know, they've become commonplace enough that others are doing them. Yep. And so, it's, you know, for us, what's unfortunate is that they do over-index to tech clients, and so we get asked a lot whether or not, whether or not, the tech issue, or at least early on, I think people have actually sort of internalized now. But initially, the question was, is it small and medium-sized tech? Is it emerging startups? Yep. Of course, obviously, it was, is it crypto? Yeah. We all know how that ended. Or maybe, you know, we'll have to pay attention to what happens in a courthouse south of here to know how that ultimately ends. But, those agencies have a lot of their... You know, they, there's a client concentration in tech, so that's been an impact. They are the ones for whom the answer would have been, they do work with some startups, some, you know, of the part of tech that's more kind of bleeding edge. And the slowdown happened as both of them needed, I think, to reorient their models to a world where we kind of need to lean into - I think for us, a very big opportunity as a holding company, when I lay out for you what's worked really well for us for a number of years now, a very big opportunity is going to be commerce, and it's going to be taking that, that data layer, taking the way in which it informs smart, you know, production at scale, and then putting it out into the, the world where everything is shoppable, and not just the advertising technology world through media, but the martech world. And so, so, you know, that happened at a moment in time when both those agencies. So what we, what we're doing is at Huge, they're, I think, a little bit further along, and there is a productization model and really a consulting model in terms of how they take all of the tasks that they perform and all of the deliverables, and really turn them into products that are bought as such with a consulting front end. And then at R/GA, we haven't actually named a new CEO, but we did move on from the prior one. And, you know, I think it's going to be pivoting into the opportunities that sort of e-com and then the non-media part of retail channels represent. Okay, great. Earlier in the year, a big focus point for, for everyone, and I think it's still a big focus point, is, the impact of generative AI. And agencies, rightly, wrongly, but, you know. 20 minutes in. It's like a, it's like a record, actually. I managed to like- Hold this for 20 minutes. Anyway, it was a big focus point for a lot of us, I guess, and it still is. Perhaps discuss, like, how this you think is impacting your business. Any example of campaigns that you've run with generative AI, and I can see Ellen is in the room now, so we can ask maybe financially, how does the model work with generative AI? Sure. Again, we've got, we've got a portfolio that has, you know, quite disparate assets, right? And, more than half of it, although obviously I'd be happier if it was, you know, significantly more than half of it, is in activities that are far more tech and data informed. So if you look at the work that we do at Acxiom, where we're doing, you know, first-party data management for very, very large, enterprises around the world in, you know, financial services and automotive, telco, et cetera. AI has been a part of the work we do there for some time, and so whether, you know, it's, it would have been called machine learning, it wouldn't have been called generative AI. Similarly, in the media space, which is so closely connected to data, where you are identifying audiences and using those audiences to then, as I said, sort of turn a media investment into a lever for business growth. So AI is already in parts of our business that have made that transition to higher value to clients, that have, to your point about my finance partner there, gone to give us the opportunity to get paid in a, you know, for business outcomes, or take some of the technology and think about whether it's licensable to clients and things of that nature. So it's already in that part of our business. And then in Reprise Media, where we do search and optimization work and retail media, we've had a chief AI officer for a couple of years inside of that company, inside of an MRM, where we do, again, what used to be called direct marketing. So if we then really kind of focus on the more traditional or creative parts of the business, I think that, the question is gonna be thinking, as I said earlier, from a, you know, from a not a people or FTE model approach to how we engage with clients, and you, you're getting paid for a person's time. It's to think about tasks and deliverables and then how AI is going to allow us to do those things, possibly faster, but you still want the skill sets that those folks have. To perhaps also meld them together to, in, say, the PR space, work with a client and a decade's worth of press releases that we've generated in a sort of standard way, and figure out how the technology can allow us to, you know, either automate that or do that better, but then to free up that expertise and have the folks on our side be able to engage with clients on higher order or higher value tasks, or tasks that end up getting to the side because budgets ultimately run out, and you do the rudimentary things, but then you don't do the higher value or the more strategic things. But it's work in progress. And then in terms of whether it's in the creative product, all of the creative leaders at the agencies have been sort of working through, you know, does it help you identify richer areas in which your teams can work and go faster to get to the nuggets? Clearly, it's going to inform insights that creative people work with. And then, on scale... Bless you. On sort of scale creative that is very, very personalized across, you know, tens of thousands of iterations because there's so many channels. It's clearly going to be quite helpful there, and that's just a net new need. So even though we may leave certain things behind, there'll be new ways for us to assist clients. And then we have incorporated it into creativity even at a fairly high level. And so, you know, I've seen some interesting things we've done for clients. We really, quite recently, took a very big idea for a client for what would be a very traditional type of creative. You know, we took a Super Bowl idea to a very big client recently that wouldn't have been possible were it not for the fact that AI allowed us to bring a creative idea to life. You know, it would have been either impossible to do or prohibitively expensive to do. So it's but it's quite early days in terms of what we, you know, the generative, you know, AI piece. So I think you'll see both. You'll see migration to new sources of revenue with clients, and you will also see some efficiencies. For the moment, you know, it's already baked into a big chunk of what we do, and in the places where it's still very early days, you know, we think there'll be definitively upside when it comes to, you know, margin and, and quite likely, opportunity for incremental revenue. Right. May be less evident right now that that's either available or going to be a significant upside. So you gave me a good segue to talk about your margin. Oh, I did. The fact that profitability has has expanded a lot at IPG over the years, now reaching about 16.7%. First of all, if we spend a few minutes on that topic, so how are you managing this margin performance, despite the fact that indeed, your top line performance for this year is a little weaker than what you expected at the start of the year? What are the levers that you're pulling? I mean, the model that we run is quite useful in that regard, right? And so when there is growth, we are very, very consistent about converting it to incremental profit. But if you really come down to it, you've got a lot of variability to our cost base. So, notwithstanding, you know, all of the wins that we called out earlier, we, we've never hire ahead of revenue coming in. So, you know, to begin with, that's a benefit. There's very, very close alignment from an incentive perspective with, ultimately, what we think that, you know, all of you as, our owners or prospective owners, you know, care about and should care about. And so it is essentially, all of the compensation plans are revenue margin with about a 2-to-1 ratio of margin. So there's clearly, you know, alignment on the part of our operators that kind of margin delivery is gonna be a way in which, you know, folks can assure that they're also gonna get, you know, compensated. So you've got that. You've got temporary labor, which, you know, Ellen and her team manage really, really well. And, you know, we're actually very thoughtful even now about, as I said, when you've got different, you know, the nature of the businesses we've got in the portfolio are different, and so there's a lot of thought given to kind of right levels of temp, you know, and utilization. So I think that, you know, we've been asked, you know, at very nominal or modest growth rates, "Can you improve or hold margin?" And, notwithstanding the, you know, we've said, we're not happy coming off of the kind of performance we've... You know, we're used to, and I think we've gotten, you know, you all used to, with the way that the first half has rolled out. But I think we may have been the only hold co that committed to margin enhancement as we headed into the year, and we still, you know, feel like we'll deliver on that, on that target. So I think it's just the nature of the business model and then how we run it. Before I pass it over to the audience for their questions, going ahead, I don't think you've really set out, like, a long-term outlook, but I think you've been quite clear about the fact that you see further upside to the current level of 16.7. So how do we get there? Do we need to see growth really pick up fundamentally, or what are the initiatives, the self-help initiatives that you're taking to like, perhaps minimize the impact of inflation or reduce certain costs? Well, as I said, I mean, I think that if you see whatever we'll call it, sort of moderate growth, we definitely know that we can convert that to margin improvement. So return of growth is one piece of it. You know, if you see growth above and beyond that, as you have with us for 4 or 5 years now, then to your point, we do a lot. There's a lot of work that we're doing to sort of optimize our own structures. So we nearshore, we offshore, we actually use AI to look at a lot of our own processes. So we think that from a reengineering process improvement point of view, there's still more we can do with our business. So it's growth at a modest rate, incremental profit. Growth above that, clearly, you know, meaningful steps forward. There's the kind of reengineering of our own business. And then some of the, you know, whether it would be a Huge, with a productized offering that is sold essentially off the shelf as a solution to a client, but mostly with the data-informed, you know, parts of our business, you also have when you're doing true pay for performance, when you're doing outcome-based work, and, you know, as a result is delivered for a client, you know, a transaction, you know, a cabin on a cruise line, a test drive, then we also see incremental margin opportunity because that activity is gonna be accretive. Super. Great. So, as promised, if you have any. You got five seconds to go. Actually, that was for my questions. He's got it. No, I know. Yeah. We got, yeah. But it's if you have any questions otherwise. I've got still some questions to ask, of course, but there's some mics in the room if you have any questions. You got two over here? Is it a concern that the generative AI tools that you referenced that are used by your creatives, is it a concern that those will be equally, if not more, available to your competitors or to big tech? And I guess, what is the special sauce that in your team's hands makes those more powerful? So what's interesting about that is, in conversations with clients, I mean, I think you, you're into something which I think has real currency, and I think is gonna be an interesting place to work with clients. So everybody will be able to use everything about what AI theoretically delivers, right? So whether that's, you know, around how you crunch and, you know, information and generate insights in many businesses, how you do creativity in businesses, et cetera. You know, in media buying, you know, 75% of media is gonna be bought algorithmically in another three or four years, right? So it just raises the bar, right? But to differentiate, you still need, you need that level of specialization, but more, you need to sit with clients and, you know. I think it's how you use first-party data is gonna become much more important in a sort of AI-informed world. And as I was saying with a client with whom we're doing, you know, an interesting trial in the PR space, I think clients are gonna want to create, and they can be fairly modest, 'cause that's not like a super high-end use case, but it's saying you've got a database of 10 years of the work we've done together, doing something that seems fairly rote or rudimentary. But there is actually expertise there that our folks are bringing to the table, right? And so I think it's gonna be that combination of, you know, are your folks smart about the tools? Do they understand how to use them? Do they understand the limitations of them? Are we baking, you know, by you know, when we bake the data piece, so FCB, one of our creative agencies, you know, not the biggest by far in the industry, currently one that is winning a lot, a lot of awards and is understood to be one of the most creative, right? And the reason that they are, is that they've gotten ahead of Everything is audience-led with them. They look at data, they come to a point of view about where the business opportunity is. They then identify the individuals they need to be talking to to make good on that business opportunity, and then the strategic insights that lead to the creative are informed by that. This isn't AI, this is just data. And then they do work that is not only highly creative, but works as a result of that. So I think that you can see where, again, you need to know how to use the tools, but theoretically, yeah, three people and a dog in a garage could do this, right? But they won't actually have that knowledge base that we've got within our... You know, we've got essentially specialized professional services capabilities that have proven that they have value for clients over time. And now the question is gonna be: how do we use those tools to amplify those or to get, you know, more from those two together? But yeah, in theory, right, everybody will have... It'll just be the new kind of, you know, floor. Another question. It's very early in the morning. Okay, I'll carry on then. Before we had this conversation, we were talking about the fact that, you know, you do more work around commerce, more work on CRM. I'd like us to do even more. Exactly. So talk to us about, like, what is it that you concretely do in that space of commerce? Because I don't know if anyone actually realizes what you're doing here and why you're excited about that space. With only five minutes to go, that's a, that's a hard question. I guess if you sort of break it down, one place you can hive off the retail media piece very quickly and quite immediately, right? So a lot of client dollars are now gonna go to retail media. The retail media networks have the benefit of both, being connected to a lot of data. So from a client perspective, that means that I have a sense that there's gonna be an accountability and an outcome-based piece. I know that a dollar spent in your—on your network correlates to reaching these people or to seeing, you know, these actions. And so through, again, mostly our media vertical, you saw, we launched a retail media solution that's informed by the data layer just in the last couple of months. So we're seeing a lot of activity there. And then I think what's also interesting to clients there is it gives them a place to, you know, invest media dollars that isn't just with the walled gardens. So, right, you understand that they're looking for ways to, you know, have more autonomy or have, you know, have more impact in that space. In the commerce space, we do everything from, you know, e-com strategy work for clients to, you know, builds of everything from a, you know, not a traditional website anymore, but, you know, everything is shoppable. So you're doing things that look more like a scale.com through to a lot of content generation that then gets pushed out in all of these channels or that consumers can engage with, you know, much of which is shoppable. So that can happen through a PR firm in the earn space, it can happen through the digital agencies that, you know, to my mind, again, need to be doing more in that space. And then, you know, you can do full transformation engagements where you're helping clients sort out how they're going to. You know, we had a very, very big win in the sort of global apparel space, athletic footwear, where that's a client that really wants to go direct to consumer. And so it was in the guise of a big media-led consolidation, but a lot of the work we're doing with them there is around you know, how do they change the model so that over time, they either become less reliant on physical retail or less reliant on third party intermediaries in the commerce space. So it's a very broad range of activity there. Superb. Another opportunity for a question, maybe. There's one just here. You know, you had mentioned before the decline of the linear model, you know, and just kind of figuring out the point at which, you know, where that breakpoint is gonna be. I guess, you know, is it that, you know, the advertising that's occurring on streaming channels, is that not as impactful as advertisers thought that there would be? Like, it would be an incremental benefit along with their linear advertising? Or I guess, like, what's the, you know, the point at which you think the linear model just can't do it anymore? Especially, you know, given the fact that it seems like live events will continue to draw, you know. Sports works, right? But I mean, there you know, if you think about what works in a traditional media model, over time, there have been fewer and fewer either must-see, must-see in real time, can only see on this format, kinds of activities. So sports clearly works, and there are a few, you know, sizable tentpoles that I guess I'm not sure that I, you know, there are linear is useful and has a part to play when we work with clients, because it brings scale and because there are times in the way in which we solve problems with clients and/or what we're trying to accomplish at different points in sort of thinking about journeys and how consumers engage with a brand, where it, it's very hard to achieve scale without linear television. So that's actually, it's worked quite well because it actually has an important role to play. The challenge has been, obviously, that it's less clear, and as you've had other instruments that aren't perfect, but give you more clarity into this dollar spent, resulted in this outcome, and obviously, digital, you've seen just the growth of digital, right? And I think the challenge has been, it's less about whether digital video works or doesn't work. It's more about, and that's why I said a little while ago that, you know, CTV interests us, and that as there's been more CTV, we think that's a good thing. I think it's been about having inventory, scale inventory and quality inventory that consumers are taking on board, that looks and feels like linear, right? And so it's an evolving model, and I think, you know, the question has always been, you know, maybe the upfront model was another reason why people ask themselves whether or not, you know, can it be traded in this way, kind of in perpetuity? And, you know, I think scale media owners have been moving pretty fast, and do we have a measurement standard? When you're engaging with a scale media owner that isn't one of the digital media owners, 'cause obviously we've seen some of the digital media owners try to do television or get into television. I mean, if you look at what Amazon is doing right now, they have a really interesting, really diverse ecosystem at this point, right? Where you can be in their stack, which is commerce, or you can now be, you know, given that they've made meaningful investments, taking on board, you know, a Thursday night NFL game, which is gonna deliver a huge audience with a data back end or with some, you know, addressability. So that's, you know, you're not gonna be able to call it and say, "Oh, this is the moment in time," but that's the progression we've been on. And that doesn't mean that folks who are, you know, tagged as, you know, linear or traditional media owners won't make the shift across. They have, you know, they've unified, you know, the ID, and everybody who engages in their ecosystem is targetable to some degree. Measurement's been a channel, a challenge, but, you know, we're just... It's just an evolution. It's not, I think, you know. I mean, the measurement aspect has been a challenge for quite some time. Yes, it has. And so I guess, are we getting any closer to the point where it will, you know, the inflection point where it will be, you know, value additive? Well, I, yes, yeah, I think we definitely are. And look, I think you'd want, you know, somebody who's not... Not that I don't spend time thinking about this, but when I, you know, was, when I ran media brands, I was probably closer to it. But, you know, our head of IR is right here, and if you'd like the time, you know, sitting with the folks who do the actual media buying and scale for our clients and talking to them about where we are in the evolution of... It's not gonna be a single measurement standard, but I think we're getting closer to where there are a few, and they are ubiquitous enough, and there's enough of, you know, comparability, that there's, there's at least a few currencies. And, yeah, I think that there's been quite a bit of progress made even in the last 24 months. But, you know, talk to Jerry and then sit with the MAGNA folks, 'cause they'll tell you what our point of view is on what Nielsen has done and whether or not that bridges the gap and who's bought into, you know... But, yeah, I mean, that's, that's been a big impediment for a long time. Please. I'm afraid we'll have to leave it here. Okay. We could go on for a longer period of time, but thank you very much, Philippe. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your conference with us. Thank you. And, talk to you soon. Okay. Thank you. We'll see some of these folks inside. Yeah. Thank you.