You kick it off? Sure. Well, and a lot has happened, and we're so focused on Q4 and delivering there, and making our 2024 plans, that I have to remind myself as well- Yeah, yeah, exactly. to jump in on some numbers. Yeah. I mean, basically, the fundamentals of the business are still strong. You know, we've seen that, you know, and just despite there's a lot of you know economic headwinds going on, of course. We've all heard about that. We've heard about it a lot, but we're really focused on expanding in the device space we currently have. We exceeded our revenue guidance by $1.6 million, and, we, I mean, and what else, what else- Yeah, OI, we delivered. OI 300 basis points increase, and we continue to guide in the low teens for 2024 or for Q4 on that as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I give a thumbs up. Yeah, well done. So, John, you're now, like, fully in charge with Dean kind of sailing off into the sunset or having sailed off. Like, for you as the kind of the CEO, but you've been in the business as well, like, what are the priorities for you now? Yeah, and Dean, you know, he's still on the board. He's still active, and he's taking some time with his family and done the European trip and the East Coast, West Coast and everything. But he's still active in the business, and when we spoke yesterday, you asked me when the last time I spoke with Dean. It was that morning, actually. So we still bounce a lot of things off each other, given his context of the business. But, you know, one of the things that we've, that I've really had to focus on, and that's been a continuation of as I've been leading this role, is to continue the culture that we have, that really got us here, because that's something that we don't want to lose. You know, we're in different economic times now, just in a different context today than we were two years ago or even last year. So really trying to make sure that we continue that culture, that relentless self-improvement, that selflessness, that has contributed to our employees really caring about their colleague, caring about their customers, trying to make a better process, trying to make a better product. And we don't want to lose any of that, just given the fact that, you know, we're not seeing—we haven't seen the growth rates in 2023, as the rest of the industry hasn't, that we've seen in the past. That really to help to make sure that we're on the right course there. Yeah. And then, you talked a little bit about the environment already. Like, what are you, what are you seeing out there in terms of- Yeah. ... you know, out there, demand, customer conversations? Yeah. You know, we've seen the same elongated sales cycles and things like that. We saw a very irregular sales motion earlier in the year, and even at the back of the last quarter of last year, where we'd be speaking to someone in the that's purchasing the product, and all of a sudden they wouldn't be there anymore. Or they would say, "You know, we don't need those extra, you know, few hundred seats because we just announced a 20% lay off," or something like that. And so- Yeah. ... we've seen, we've seen that. Now, I must say, in Q3, we did start to see some stabilization in the sales motion, so less, less irregularities like that. You know, it's, it's, it's too early. We're not calling the bottom or anything, but we are seeing some upsell return, not to the extent that we have seen in the past, but it's better to have the upsell than the downsell. Mm-hmm. So we're seeing some of that stabilize as well as the sales motion. It's still a little longer, but, you know, we're very hopeful, especially going to the next year, that we can- Yeah. ... we can move on that. Anything to add? You know, we talk about it in net retention ways, too. If you look at, you know, Q3 of this year versus Q3 of last year, 85% of the decrease in NRR was related to lack of upsell or muted device growth at renewal. You can really see it, it is being driven by the macro. I think the other piece of that, our lost logos really haven't changed that much. Yeah, they've increased a little bit in the SMB side, been more volatility there. Yeah. That has not been the big driver. So, you know, as we roll forward into Q4, we said, you know, during our call for Q3, we expect that to tick down just a little bit further. We're not ready to call bottom yet, but we're definitely starting to see some stabilization. Yeah. And then, you know, as the leadership team, the one thing that comes up as a message is, like, there's tougher times, and then so you need to react differently in terms of, you know, how you run the sales cycle- Mm-hmm. ... like, being more on top of who needs to sign it, et cetera. Like, from your perspective, like, how much of, like, what's happening out there is something that you could just kind of maybe offset by kind of just being more stringent on the sales cycle, having the sales guys tick more boxes earlier, et cetera, versus actually it's declined during tough times? Oh, sure. What do you hear? Well, we've done a lot of things and really focused on our sales enablement in a couple of different areas. And one is just the sales motion. We were growing so fast and hiring people in to meet that demand, that our sales enablement team, management team, was so busy trying to interview, hire, bring in quota reps and ramping them up and making sure that they had everything they needed. And now we can really, in the absence of that, really take a look at what we have and how can we improve that process. We have sales methodologies. We have to have three different departments input in that. We want two different decision makers and then an influencer. We want to know who those are. We map that out in our Salesforce instance. When you run fast, sometimes you run a little looser. Mm-hmm. Now we're able to tighten some of that up, and it helps us quite a bit. It really continued the efforts that we started on educating our territory reps about the security space. And in the face of muted device expansion, we still have 30 million devices out there, over 74,000 customers, and 80% of them have management on it. 21% of our revenue from the security business, 23% of our customers have a security solution, at least one, and management. But we've got 80% of our install base we can cross-sell into, and we're doing that effectively. Yeah. We've had great growth rate in our security business, and that's been the efforts of our cross-sell focus. So cross-selling and then also making sure that our sales motion is more efficient. Yeah. And then, I mean, the one thing is like, that's the thing where I kind of tell it for you guys as well, like, you know, you were a seat-based model, or for a lot of the time a seat-based model. So you're kind of really depending on the cycle in a way. Like, is that kind of for you as well, as you kind of read the Wall Street Journal and think like, "Oh, is it picking up? Are people hiring again?" Like, I mean, how closely linked is that for you? Well, we still believe that there's a very large addressable market out there that we haven't tapped deeply into. Yeah. But a good chunk of our business does come from, historically has come from upsells. So customers, we tend to land and expand. We'll go in, we'll get a logo and maybe one department within that company, and there's other departments that haven't yet switched over to Apple. But Apple, if you look at the research, both what Fletcher Previn had shared at JNUC last year, and also a similar study that he did when he was at IBM- Mm. A few years ago, as well as education, two-thirds of employees, students, and there's no rocket science with the correlation there because the students come on and they work. Two-thirds of them will choose an Apple device. Yeah. We know that there's expansion within that, but we also believe there's a large addressable market, especially in the iOS area. And then you talk about deskless workflows, which is a different thing on top of that. Yeah. There's some correlation to hiring, but there's a lot more opportunity that we can do, other than that, selling into our installed base security products. And if they have- you can have a device that has 1 management software product on it, but you can have 5 different security products on it, whether it's network or on device. Yeah And so there's an opportunity to continue to sell back into that installed base. Maybe I would take a look at if you guys have an enterprise and then public sector as well. Like, what do you see? Are there any, is the public sector acting countercyclical at the moment for you? Like, what are you seeing there? Well, in the public sector, a couple of things going on. One is, that would include education. Yeah. Education is one of our industries, that along with tech, makes up 47% of our current business historically. We are seeing additional industries pick up, financial services, for example. But when we look at the public sector, in 2020 and 2021, a lot of governments, not just the U.S. government, but the German government, the Taiwanese, Japan, they all had these multi-year agreements to get to a one-to-one, one student, one Apple device ratio. And a lot of them did that, and they received, of course, funding to do that, and then they bought the contract. We believe anywhere from, you know, 3-5 years, so averaging four-year refresh cycle, we believe that's going to come up in 2024. Yeah. And so we're preparing for that as well. So that's kind of something we're seeing in the public sector. And we're also announced that we're StateRAMP, which means we can then go further in the processes around some of the state and local government, and we're excited about that as well. A lot of opportunity. And as these contracts kind of from the pandemic come up, like, is that for you, like, a risk or opportunity? Like, how do you see that? Like, you know, are people going back to where maybe we're post-pandemic, we don't need that many seats anymore? Or Or is it like, okay, we've now recovered it, we just want to move on from here and forever. I think in school- In school. Yeah. Well, I have a fifth grader, and when she got her iPad, I'm not taking that iPad away from the kiddos. Yeah. I mean, they're going to keep those devices. So Apple didn't get every device in those exercises. There were other. We've seen studies that there may be less durability in other devices, or there's a longer life cycle because after a certain point, you can't upgrade it anymore. Yeah. And so even though they were less expensive to begin with, we're seeing our customers, school districts, talk to us about how, you know, it's not that great of a savings if I can't upgrade the device or if it breaks the first time a kiddo drops it. So we're seeing a greater shift toward the Apple devices. Well, that means more opportunity for us- Yeah. to add on, on top of that. Yeah. Yeah, I would just add one thing, too, and we'll be in year two of our Jamf Safe Internet, which is our first security product, that is really directed towards the education market. And, you know, we've had year one where we've got some good feedback. We're making those adjustments for years two. Customers have said, you know, you make that adjustment, definitely interested. I think that actually puts better growth in 2024 in this business. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't have it the first time around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then the other thing that we talked a lot about in the past was like this whole notion of iOS and Mac in the enterprise. Like, where are we on that journey? Like, maybe double click on Mac. Like, iOS, like, you know, like we have big confirmation that the manager, it's the next one. Yeah. Like, let's, let's stay on the Mac. Yeah. Like, what are we seeing here in terms of Mac enterprise? We're actually seeing increase. As I mentioned earlier, Fletcher Previn, he's the CIO at Cisco. He came to our Jamf Nation conference a couple times, did a tremendous speech, and he talked about the study that he did inside of Cisco, and how if given the choice, two-thirds of employees will actually choose a Mac, and that, in fact, the Mac is less expensive to run by a few hundred dollars. Mm-hmm. ... over the life cycle of the product. Given the longer life cycle of the product, and also given the lower support costs internally, and gave all the ratios to that. You can go take a look. But that benefits, obviously, companies, like a lot of schools that used to use it.... So we're seeing, we're seeing that do well. He did that math on a better cost, total cost of ownership prior to. Now, the M3's come out, it's got greater price for performance than even the M2 or the M1, of course. Mm. That even makes the math easier on total cost of ownership. So we're seeing growth on that side. What I'm really excited about, and just in my conversations with our user customers, and I talk to customers all the time, is they're so excited, they're anticipating the deskless workflow. And it's hard to go into a retail store anymore or even a gas station, and find an old cash register. It's all the point-of-sales are all devices. We call it devices. Yeah. We're seeing that. We're also seeing non-tech leading industries that I'm speaking to, airline, transportation, delivery companies, and they're all asking, "Okay, Apple's announced that you're gonna be able to manage the watch. When does that happen? When does that happen?" And they're, they're anticipating it because they wanna go to the hands-free, whether they can track a driver, or they can watch for, you know, bags and track bags and things. And what, what excites me about that is there's a whole group and area out there that we haven't seen yet. These non-tech forward-leaning industries are designing their processes around the technology, the future technology, versus in the past, earlier in our career, we would go make a process and then go find the technology that would support it, but now it's almost on its head. Yeah. So I'm really excited to see all the use cases that come out of this, that we haven't even thought about yet. But the companies are. We're so, and Mac, I would think- Yeah. Yeah, in terms of that end user. If I think about end adoption also, like, there is still a lot of, like, first-generation mobile device guys out there that still haven't been installed these. And, and you, although you were kind of the Apple guys, like, where are we in terms of corporate rethinking? Like, if I do Apple natively, and have my renewal, there's changes, versus, like, sticking with the vendors that are now private, on the public, et cetera. What we've seen, at least I've seen over the last few years, talking to different customers, there used to be someone in charge of the life of the device. This person over here manages all the mobile devices, the person over here manages all the desktops. So what we've seen in many companies have switched to where one person manages Apple, because it goes across the interoperability of Apple, where you can move from what you're doing on your iPad to your Mac, and then if you're on the road, then you might need to do that very same thing on your phone, that interoperability, and your watch as well, right? So all of those things working together, there's been advantages for companies have seen, and so they've moved some of the way they've managed that ecosystem, the size of the device. That's benefited Apple greatly because it helps to leverage the system- Yeah. and the benefits of that. Then, do you see that as well as renewals come up? Like, if I was a citizen or member of, there's now a rethinking, or are we still in the early innings of that? Well, we're in the early innings, certainly of the replacement market. We all know that Broadcom acquired VMware, and there's been, you know, obviously several people in VMware that laid off. And in anticipating that, many of our customers who we've been able to then replace that VMware installation. In fact, the large deal we talked about in Q2, very well-recognized top 25 brand, was a VMware replacement with 85,000 iOS clients. Yeah. And that's because, you know, we innovate at the pace of Apple, and we have done this for 20 years, and we work very closely with them, not only on the go-to-market side and internationally, but also on the product development side. And if you're not committed to do that, things are ready zero- day and, or not even work at all over time. Yeah. And so, asking, you know, VMware, "Hey, how are you doing this? And what are you gonna do as a declarative device manager, what are you gonna do?" And if they don't get good answers, they get... When the renewal cycles come up, it's very easy for us to talk to them. It's not all gonna happen at one time, because companies are moving through their renewal cycle, but when those renewals come up, we have a really good opportunity. It's early. Yeah. It's been going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we're in the early innings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and, shifting gear a little bit, you talked a little bit about the expansion of the offering with, Jamf Protect, Jamf Connect, et cetera. Especially on the security side, like, talk a little bit about your in terms of like, what you want to do and how far do you want to do that? Sure. Well, Mac management has really been our cornerstone, our anchor, where we got started. Mm. Then we've expanded, of course, into iOS and then into security. We didn't do that by happenstance. Our customers asked us to. They said, "You know, we love the capabilities we have with the management side of it, but in order for us to grow our goal is to help organizations succeed with Apple." I mean, that's- Yeah. ... But in order for those customers to be able to succeed with Apple and increase their Apple install base, they wanted to be sure that all of those devices were trusted to access the public resources. And so then we started looking at things like Jamf Protect, and we acquired the technology, we built some around it as well for Protect and Connect, and that's when we started getting the Trusted Access. And it's really an outcome. It's not a product or a SKU. So those CISO and InfoSec organizations, and IT organizations care about all these Apple devices, they can access public resources securely. Mm. But there's many areas of the security piece of that, and we've covered a few of them, but there are others still that we were still working on and expanding. You can't have a secure device without it also being managed, because if you identify a vulnerability... How do you make sure that that application has been updated, or that the access to that device has been turned off? You have to do that through the management. So really, the yield of and there's a lot of opportunities there for us between management and security within the Apple ecosystem, beginning to tap. And then it might be a stupid question, but I do get it a lot from our people as well. It's like, if you think about, like, you know, you guys in security versus, like, the cool guys in security, you know, like- Say we're not cool? No, no, no. Yeah, no, the guys who are just pure security, like CrowdStrike, for example, et cetera. What's the like, how do we have to think about that? Like, side by side, is it one or the other? Like, how should we think about this? Well, we designed it to happen, first of all, and that is, that's the product. Similar on the management side, there's things that you can do in the native environment that you can't do outside of the native environment. And so when you have a product that works across platforms, you kind of have to dilute the experience down to the lowest common denominator. Yeah. You don't get to utilize all of that. We found that in the Apple ecosystem, our customers tell us that when they run a security product that's not designed for Apple specifically, and can either degrade the performance of the machine, or yield false positives. Yeah. That's just actually how Mac is supposed to work. There's not really a vulnerability going on there that's operating as intended, but it doesn't look like a Windows machine. So there's a threat, or there's a vulnerability kind of thing. Then your IT org, you know, or security org has to spin their wheels to find it. So there's some great efficiencies and usability from a user perspective, and performance perspective on using something that's written native for the device. You know, CrowdStrike is a great product for the Windows- Yeah, yeah. ... environment, and we tend to do the same thing on the Apple side, but companies will run them side by side. Okay. We can, you know, any one product, as I said, or any one device can have 5 different security products on it, and that's just security spaces. The security budgets aren't being cut- Yeah. ... as much, if at all, and they really like vendors. So we've a lot of times seen them run both products on the same product, the same device, and then find out that when they start to say, "Okay, this is catching everything," and sometimes more native on Apple, and then they'll just, they'll just run our. They do run side by side. Yeah. Okay. And then, Ian, maybe just give, like, a little bit of numbers in terms of penetration or, like, how far you are on just kind of getting Jamf Connect into the install base. Like, remind us of the number, I think, 21. Like, where are we on that journey, and how are we going to get that number bigger? Yeah. So on that journey, we have 23% of our customers have management. You were close. Management. Now, that doesn't mean they hit all our security- Yeah. ... yet. So, so early on in that journey, and we have a lot of them, right? And there's a lot of opportunity there. You know, what we've seen as customer, especially in the SMB side on and middle market side, so that's 2,500 employees, we've seen great success in the rates. In fact, in one way, it's almost double that when we're going with the full platform versus just management. Yeah. When they see that economic benefit, right, on these programs, right? You go and you say, "Hey, you can replace five different securities and you have our management. You're going to save money, and things are going to run better, and you can have one person to come to when you have a question." That really is resonating right now. So we have an opportunity to get all those customers on management security at some point. I think we've taken this year really to get better and better, build that muscle around security. I think we continue to do that and improve upon that in the future. Would that mean in terms of revenue, revenue composition in terms of, you know, you have to, you know, like, how, you know, end state, imagine you get 100%. What is your revenue? Yeah. So I rewind the clock even to IPO. We had about $6 million of our ARR that related to security. Yeah. Today, it's about $120 million, and I'd say about less than $30 million of that came in our... You can see, you know, the, the, we use out there as a hardcore algorithm for security is nice, and I think that's the, the customers see that benefit. One thing, we didn't talk about is, you know, on iOS side, iOS and macOS are more and more similar. Things like the Declarative Device Management makes them act more similar than an iOS versus an Android, and I think that's what customers are seeing, and that's why they're asking us to move into the Apple ecosystem. Yeah, yeah. And that, that really gets our security going. I don't want you to announce, like, a new or new areas, but, like, is there... If you think about beyond Jamf Protect, there are other stuff, if you think about the Apple device in the enterprise, that you—we could think that we could address or is like security for, like, the- I think we have, just the security space. Mm. There's other vectors and the aspects that we need to cover and that we're actively looking on now. You know, we've also improved to our AI capabilities, and we use it today to help identify vulnerabilities and threats, and we'll continue to extend that actual mediation and seeing in environments that what happens, this is what's likely to happen. These are the options we have to remediate that, and then actually to go implement them. Yeah. I think there's so much space in the Trusted Access for us right now as Apple continues to expand in the integration... I don't see us going all out with that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, makes sense. And then, the last couple of quarters, maybe I misheard it, or I could do something more that you actually didn't say. It did sound like you were doing a little bit more outside of the Apple. Is that, like, how big of an-- is that kind of, if there's a deal grid, or is it kind of a strategy? Well, there's certainly a strategy. First is we're Apple, we're gonna The further you get from the device, the more ability we'll have to support on their platform. For example, in our security product for our students, we think that, you know, we have, and it's more of a network security and filtering, that certain websites shouldn't be viewed by children. Well, because that child has an iPad versus a Chromebook, still means the child shouldn't be looking at the website. And so we're able to do some of that, and the same thing on the side as well. The further you get from the device, the more interoperability there will be between platforms. Yeah, yeah. That's not something we're going to develop, but just- Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then, shifting gears the last couple of minutes, a little bit, Ian, like, you know, you guys were always, like, solid on profitability, solid on cash flow. How do you think about the evolution for you guys here, from here? Yeah, well, we use two metrics for profitability. We use operating income or not yet operating income. We use unlevered free cash flow. To date, first on the operating income, but we've continued to improve that. We added kind of a step function. Yeah. Since then, improvement, we've said even 2024 is gonna be continued improvement, so why? We saw unlevered free cash, so I think we're seeing in a lot of companies. We did see a downtick this quarter, but it related to where customers want to pay or when they want to pay and shift pay. And so we took a quick look at that and said, "Hey, what's going on here?" And we saw our top 9 multi-year contracts, and they hit that historically have been paid all up front. They all shifted, or 8 of them shifted to annual paying, and even 1 shifted quarterly. And so when you see that dynamic, we looked at those same customers, our contracts actually grew, and the term didn't change. So they were signing up for the same term, and they were buying more products, meaning those customers, they still want more products. The only thing is they just want to pay the bill today, which I get. Yeah. Again, that's a complete business that makes, and it shows that... So, and we can think that OI will continue to drive unlevered free cash flows in the future, and I'll wrap it up. Yeah. And then for me, like, it's more like, it's like forward-looking. So if you think about maybe things are getting a little bit better, like, how do you manage that, getting the pressure from us? Because we still want the margin straightaway, but you can't think about both, and investment to have a long lead time, think about lead time, et cetera. Like, how do you think about that? What are the signals that you're looking at to say, like, "Okay, I need to lean in a little bit more here? Yeah, a couple of things there, too. I mean, we've got all the time, and we get a bit, a view of, like, what, what do you see out in the, in 2024? You know, we hear about, you know, interest rates and where they're, you know, predicting to go, and hear this, you know, maybe late 2024, interest rates start going down. Be a leader for hiring and tech, which is one of our big industries that we sell to. We look at things, and we now say, "What, where do we think margins will be?" We also have some long-term scalability projects we're working on right now to improve margins. So two areas that we're very focused on, that we think we can improve on is sales and marketing. And today, we've been working on things where today we have some manual touches, where we're invoicing with customers who don't have a partner portal. Those things we're gonna automate within 2024, and really have some, some scalability there. And then even in G&A, some of that ties in the back office. Yeah, and that will make it more scalable, and you can, you know, think about getting, you know, smaller as a percentage of revenue and our profit. Yeah. That's a good point, Ian, and, 36 seconds away, so like the Germans put it before, on time. Hopefully. Hey, guys, that was... I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Thanks for being here again. Yeah.