Let's do this. This is. I keep telling people, planning this conference is like a wedding. And when the day finally comes, it's great because it's just a lot of fun, and everything is kind of all the heavy lifting is done. We're at the final dance. We're ready to call it a night. And what better last dance than my friends from Minneapolis, the tech hub of the universe. Upper Midwest. Of the Upper Midwest. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to bring it home strong here, although David, long, long-time friend of mine, he left us. He's not in Minnesota anymore. He figured it out. He's moved down. Are you in North Carolina? South Tampa. Oh, Tampa. Tampa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. Spent four years in Wilmington and then moved to Tampa last year. Yeah. All right. Well, we can get caught up on this later. Nobody cares. For those that don't know me, Matt Hedberg, I've been kind of all around here. We're excited, like I said, to have Jamf here. We've got a lot to talk about. I will preface this: if there are questions, Michael, feel free to ask them at the end. We'll save a minute or two for that. But appreciate everybody being here. So, David, I'll start with the newest member of Jamf, David Rudow, CFO. You joined, October 28th, approximately. Approximately. So we're. Three weeks in. Three weeks in, and yeah, looking forward to. The new guy thing wears off. The new guy thing. Yeah. John is the new guy. Has it worn off? Yeah. It's still there? It's still there. We're getting there. and then John Strosahl, CFO or CEO of Jamf. You've been with Jamf for a long time but remind me, when did you take over as CEO? I've in dog years. September of last year. September of last year. You're a little over a year here. Yeah, over a year. Okay. Okay. Now we're coming nine years. Nine years. Yeah. So certainly not new to Jamf. Let's start out with just a high-level question. When we think about the performance of the business, obviously, there's been a lot of economic stress on the system over the past several years. Certainly in your business, your Ed business has been under a fair amount of stress and pressure. Maybe just talk about, you know, trends that you saw in Q3. Obviously, Ed's been a bit more pressured. Enterprise has been better. Talk about just kind of level set us from what you saw from a Q3 perspective, from an overall demand perspective and kind of those two broad businesses. And obviously, cyber, it feels like that's a third business, but that's been doing exceptionally well. Yeah. No, it certainly has. You know, when we think about the, what we saw in Q3, some of the similar headwinds that we saw happen early in the year have persisted. And then on the commercial side, it's really been, the two biggest industry that we have, are tech and K- 12. And in both of those, we've seen a bit of an elongated refresh cycle, for different reasons. On the commercial side, we've seen, you know, companies wait a little bit longer. There's some times of uncertainty leading up to the election in the U.S., at least. You know, what's going to happen with interest rates? Yes, there's talk about them going down. What's that going to mean for us in the midterm? So there's some uncertainty. We think that CFOs are being a little bit more judicious about refreshing those devices. I think another contributing factor with that is also as Apple comes out with the Apple Silicon with the M2, M3 chips in the iPads and on MacBooks. Those CFOs are saying, well, you know, we know we're going to refresh this device, but if we wait until the next, you know, M chip comes out, it's going to be even better at processing AI, large language models or whatnot on the device, and that's something real important to the Apple ecosystem, so we've seen a bit of that. Now they're coming back and tech has been, has flattened out a bit on the hiring side. We saw, you know, a lot of backwards movement in 2023, even the first part of 2024. We saw that headwind. and on the commercial side, or sorry, on the education side, it's just been, again, it's been an elongated refresh cycle. A lot of this, a lot of these devices were purchased for kiddos in the back half of 2020, first part of 2021. We typically see a four-year device refresh cycle in education, and we're kind of, we're coming up on that. But. Why is that? I mean, because to me, it's like the kids have, whether they have a device or they don't, like, why does a refresh really matter from an ed perspective if they already have a device and they're already a subscriber? It's primarily because we have the opportunity to have more Apple devices, and we're seeing that happen. And. It's more of an upsell thing. More of an upsell. More of an upsell thing. And they, a lot of times they'll switch from one device type to an Apple, because of the durability of the other. On an upgrade cycle. Yeah, on an upgrade cycle as they have to come in. Okay. I was going to save this for later, but from a U.S. presidential election perspective. Yeah. I don't recall, John, you probably have a better recollection what 2016 and 2020 meant from an ed tech spending perspective from Trump's first term. But any thoughts on what that could mean from an ed perspective over the next four years? Yeah. I mean, we've—we've thought about that. I mean, it is too early to tell. I mean, there's a lot of discussions going on. As—as far as it impacts us in 2025, not much, just because a lot of those funds have already been deployed and they're at the state level, so it's less dependent on what happens at the federal level, if anything happens, but even if it did, 2025, they've got a lot of those funds distributed, and because it's at the state level, we believe that it's not going to have a wild impact on 2026 either. In 2026. Yeah. Okay. So I just like, I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone what happened in 2016. Yeah. But I couldn't recall if that was, if there was any sort of, like, aid bills that drove some additional spending. But, I guess we'll see with this term. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about tech. What about some of the other verticals that on the enterprise side? We've seen a lot of really nice improvement in professional services, financial services as well. Wholesale and retail is another area that really excites me because it leans into the deskless workflow and the mobile devices and the retail environment. Logistics as well. We've seen a lot of deskless opportunity happen in logistics and transportation that you wouldn't even expect. These non-tech forward-leaning industries are saying, "Hey, when can we get the watch under management?" Or, "When can we, you know, we need to do this and that with the iPad or the phone, with our workers that aren't sitting necessarily behind a desk or even working from home, but they're in the field." And how do they use those devices, so we're seeing some of those in those three industries that work pretty well. Yeah. Excellent. Take a pause for a second, David. You've known each other forever. He was on your side for many, many years. And then he was the CFO of nCino. I guess, you know, you had choice. You had a lot of options. Why Jamf? I guess you were asked that on the call, but I guess it's sort of—I'm sort of curious, like, if you've— you know, you had a lot of choice. You had a lot of options. Yeah. Yeah. No, when I received the phone call from the headhunter, I remember Jamf from my days in Minnesota because I was there in 2002 through 2016. I think I met the original founders way back when I was at Piper in those days. You know, I was looking for a market-leading company, and as you dig further in, you know, they dominate the Apple ecosystem. It's a global solution. Security is a building product for them, a market. I mean, $150 million in ARR, since I don't know when, when you start four or five years in security, which is pretty substantial. The management team was great. John is excellent, and the culture of the company. Yeah. Like, when you go there and meet, it feels good and people are supportive. I think one of my favorite things is constant self-improvement, which I think we all can. Yeah. And it's a team effort. So, I look at this as a huge opportunity. I think it's a hidden gem. I think there's a ton of potential for the company. And I'm excited to help and grow the company. I guess, yeah, from that, I've also often thought, too, there's just a tremendous amount of value here to unlock from your perspective, looking outside in. What are some of the, you know, the things that you see that, like, and obviously this comes down to execution and comes down to a lot of things that you can't control. But what—what are some of those things that you're like, "I think this could unlock some value for shareholders"? Yeah. I think the international opportunity. I think we've seen good traction on the education side in countries. There's a number of Asia-Pacific countries that are working with us to deploy a solution across the entire country. I think there's a number of them. I think on the security side, we are starting to bundle. And I think as we bundle, both security and management, I think that's a way to get higher ASPs. And so, and it also improves the less churn with the customer too. Yeah. The attach rates are there and they have a tendency to hold on to the product longer. Yeah. I think on the services side, I think we can work closer with the customers as well, and help them deploy and then plan for the future in their Apple ecosystem. And then really, I think the overall overarching theme is Apple is gaining share in the enterprise. Yeah. I know I've been using Apple. The comment was, "Oh, when you start, the biggest adjustment you have it will be work. We use an Apple, the Mac." And I'm like, "I've been using it since 2018. Yeah. I think there'll be more choice as we see choice in the enterprise and the companies. I think you'll see more people choose a Mac, and they'll need a solution to help support that. That's a great segue. I was going to ask next about Mac adoption. I don't like, I've been using a Mac forever, too. We actually use—what do we use, Daniel? Is that a—what is that a— It's a ThinkPad. ThinkPad? Yeah. which is just - I can't use it on an airplane. It just doesn't work. The battery - it's just - it's a horrible experience. Do we have any IT guys in the - I don't think so. I - like, when you sit back, it just feels like, what - like, why - why - why haven't we seen faster? Like, when you hear SAP and, like, some of these, like, old companies that have embraced Mac, like, why - like, are you surprised that we haven't seen more Mac adoption in the enterprise at this - to this point? Yeah. I mean, I started my career off at IBM, which is odd for me now to work at Jamf. Yeah. But they're one of our, you know. Bigger customers. Bigger customers. So, that's an advantage. I think the market has evolved. You know, there's companies, like you mentioned, you know, huge tech companies, you know, Salesforce, for example. If you go there, you get a MacBook unless you ask for a PC and create a reason for it. So I guess the reason why K through 12 and tech are such big industries for us is because they're just early adopters of Mac. Yeah. But like I said, it's spreading out to the other verticals and professional services and wholesale retail. We're seeing some great movements, in that to adopt the Apple ecosystem. You know, Fletcher Previn did that, survey. Yeah. As he's the CIO of Cisco, and he did it at Cisco. And interestingly enough, he did a very similar survey a couple of years prior, well, five or six years prior when he was the CIO of IBM. And they have a choice program. Yeah. You walk in the door and they say, "Do you want an Apple or do you want a PC?" And they two-thirds of the time, they'll choose the Apple device. Yeah. And again, both companies, so it's very consistent and supportive of that data, even at the refresh cycle, and this is why we talk about refresh being a tailwind for us, because even if that employee had a PC at the time when they can refresh their device and given a choice, they'll choose an Apple device two-thirds of the time, which again should speak volumes to the how it continues to grow. One of the early headwinds that we saw was IT organizations. They're like, "Oh, you know, I don't know how to deal with this. I don't know how to get it on my ecosystem, make sure it has the right applications on it." Well, that's what Jamf does. Yeah. You know, David said it's probably a hidden gem. You know, once they understand how easy it is, our mission statement is to help organizations succeed with Apple. Yeah. Once they understand how easy it is to deploy those devices and then keep them updated, and now that we've added the security component at the behest of our customers to make them manage and secure, so not only can you find a vulnerability that's going to happen on the security side, but you can actually remediate it or do something about it with the management piece of it, you know, our—we're going to continue to push on that. The market is growing. Apple's gaining market share. People are understanding how easy it is to manage those devices within their corporate environment. We believe we have a hand in that. We're just, you know, we're continuing to push on that. I—I don't know why it's not happened sooner. Yeah. But it is happening, and we're going to continue to work. I mean, it feels like there's a generational thing, too, that could help. Oh, absolutely. I mean, Apple went in early into the education system in education. And we've seen, you know, new employees graduate from college never touched a PC. So they really want to take their MacBook with them to work. And I think that's just a timing thing. I really do think it grows. Are you seeing a change in Chromebook, though, within ed? Like, is Chromebook growing within the ed tech space? Or ed, not ed tech, but ed? You know, I don't. We haven't seen it. Well, from my perspective, at least, of course, we see one side of the equation. We haven't seen it grow. You haven't seen a ton of Apple share loss to Chromebook? No. No. In fact, what we have heard from customers that have shifted, that have at refresh cycle have shifted to the Apple devices, is a couple of the complaints they've had is that the Chromebook wasn't as durable, so it broke easier, and they thought that they could get more students covered by a one-to-one device by buying a less expensive device. But then if it breaks, you've got to buy two devices, so that math didn't work, and then secondly, it's a finite life cycle. At some point, you can't upgrade it. It just becomes a brick. And when you can, you know, you can continue to update an iPad for longer, so I think those are two areas that we've seen districts lean toward the Apple. It's so funny you said, but our daughter—she went to Minnetonka. Yeah. My daughter goes to Minnetonka. Minnetonka. So they have, yeah, they're a Jamf customer. Yeah, they are. They use iPads there. She just transferred to a different Southwest Christian, which you maybe not know where that is, but she got a Chromebook this year, and she just, like, it was two weeks in, and the keys didn't work, and so she just leaves it at home now. Yeah. Yeah. She'll bring her Mac, her MacBook Air, which is not an authorized device, but she's like, "It's just easier, and I can connect to Wi-Fi." So yeah, it's. I just was kind of curious if you're seeing, but yeah, the durability of those Chromebooks just feel. There's. It's not a great experience, despite the cost, maybe. Yeah, well, you talk about the unauthorized device. We call those rogue devices. We've seen a lot of companies start with Apple because executive jewelry. So executives will bring in their MacBook, and everybody else sees that. It's, "Well, I want to have one of those at work," and then the IT organization has to figure out how to manage it, and then we come in. Let's, we'll get back to the enterprise side. I mean, I remember when you guys first announced the cybersecurity products. Yeah. I tell people it was like, I don't remember what user conference it was, but I remember being in the audience and people would get up and clap, almost like they were at a Mac event, you know, talking about the next great feature. Yeah. It felt like that was a real unlock. Yeah. It's grown into a $150 million business for you guys. You know, kind of level set us on, you know, sort of how we think that adoption, like, how penetrated in that enterprise base with business plan and is kind of the cyber, and what is that kind of that growth opportunity in your base? If sort of every customer took sort of your cyber product or even business plan, what could that mean from, like, an ARR perspective? Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons they got up and clapped is because they've been asking for that. Yeah, forever. Yeah, yeah. We listened to them and we built it. You know, we've asked them. They had Apple deployments in their organization. We said, "Well, what would let you deploy more Apple devices?" They said, "If we felt secure about those devices accessing our corporate resources." Now, Apple has the most secure operating system available, but as it becomes more prevalent in the enterprise, they're a more valuable target. There's more pressure on that. They asked for that, and we built it. Then, you know, they buy it. You know, we've done the math. and I think we released this at Investor Day - if we just had, you know, the penetration that we had, if they went to a bundle, which was less expensive than buying the point products, it'd be about a $350 million upside on the - on the business if they all moved security, or at least in the bundle. Yeah. immediately. Now, we're seeing that happen over time, which is the traction that you had noted in the security. And we, you know, every device can have one device management product, but it can have several security products on it. And so we've got a lot of room once, even if they have one security product to sell them, you know, if they have endpoint, we can sell them network. We can sell them mobile threat detection. These are all the things that we can go on top of what they already have. Well, and I guess, yeah, I mean, you listen to customers, obviously. Yeah. What are they asking you to do in addition to sort of the base cyber offerings today? Are they pulling in any directions that could be interesting? Yeah. And I know that because we—like you said, we listen to them. We talk to them. A couple of areas that we've talked about, app security. We do some of that now. But the fact that they would really like us to lean heavier into the app security piece because there are obviously a lot of things that are Apple-specific in those applications. And in some jurisdictions, they are less required to buy it through a specific app store. So that even opens that up to more vulnerabilities. Those apps are constantly updated. So they want to make sure that it stays safe. Another area that we have some capability in today, but our customers have asked us to extend that is DLP. Okay. Because there's some Apple-specific things that go on with respect to DLP and where that data can be cut and pasted and stored and backed up that isn't prevalent on the Windows side, or they have different ones on the Windows side. So those customers want to make sure that their Apple side is - or their Mac side is protected. Yeah. Okay. We can spend quite a bit more time on just the cyber piece. David, you were asked this on the earnings call, so we, I think we know the answer, but I'm curious. You said you looked at the 26 targets which were issued earlier this year and maybe give your, you know, you probably don't necessarily, you know, you're still doing your work and you're still trying to understand some of the drivers here, but just kind of give some of the high level because those were pretty solid targets that were put out, you know, earlier this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so part of my onboarding was to actually did it before I started, but reviewing the investor day and all the details there, which tons of details. I think it was very helpful to disclose those. I think for me coming on board, I think it was answered. They asked it on the earnings call. I was there a week. Yeah. I've been there three weeks now, but now, so now we're digging in. We're slicing and dicing ARR. We're doing a deep dive there. We're looking at the sales force, what it takes to hit the booking targets that we are targeting next year, and then, you know, I want to be sure that we understand it fully, that we fleshed out everything, and then we'll give guidance on the earnings call in February. For '25? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thinking about that bridge, like, if we kind of use 26 and then kind of bridge that, I mean, is it still right to think that 26 is—I mean, I think you said you still, like, at this point, you still felt comfortable with them, and we can kind of use that as a bit of a bridge to get to—to get to 20. You use 26 as a bridge for 2025? Yeah. I think, you know, again, we'll talk about the guidance on the call in February. But I think at the end of the day, we are targeting Rule of 40. So we want to be a profitable growth company, and the target for 2026 is Rule of 40. Okay. That's kind of the North Star of what we're looking at. Yeah. I mean, you've obviously been - you were part of that planning process. Mm-hmm. Has anything changed from a kind of like three months in or three quarters of this year that would deviate that? Or is it like, you know? You know, we set our guidance out for 2024. First three quarters of the year, we beat and raised. Yeah. You know, did what we said we were going to do. And, we've set guidance for Q4. Yeah. We're just executing on that. Yeah. So that's been pretty consistent. And as David said, you know, we're really taking a look at how that rolls out into next year and what that looks like. And but 2024 was what we said it was going to be and even a little better. Yeah, and like, when you think about longer-term, I mean, I remember the days when, and this is like, there's probably some COVID benefits of. Yeah. Growth and all products and all geos. Yeah. It was like a 30, 30, 30. Everything was 30. Yeah. I mean, do we think we can get? I mean, is there? I mean, it feels like there's still the opportunity. I don't know. Maybe it's not 30, but like, there's some pretty big growth opportunities here. I mean, talk about sort of like, you know, what are some of the bigger levers to get you, you know, maybe back to some of those levels? If you think about it, back in the days of the 30, 30, 30s, you know, our product got better. Yeah. We didn't get worse product. Yeah. Our salespeople didn't forget how to sell. Yeah. Right? The Apple is not losing market share. So all those things are consistent or even better than they were back in that day. The biggest thing has been kind of the pullback from, you know, a lot of the in our biggest industries, at least, a lot of the overhiring post-COVID. Yeah. And that really, lack of upsell, in some cases downsell, last year and the beginning of this year is really what's impacted our growth. And so we, you know, we're doing everything we possibly can to continue to watch and support that growth as those tailwinds come back. But aside from that, as I mentioned, our product's not getting any worse. In fact, getting even better. And then Apple gaining market share. We've got three areas that we're really focused on expanding or using for growth factors. And the first one is the mobility side. Yeah. And how, you know, as I mentioned, some of the deskless workflows in retail and things that we didn't even think of a few years ago that companies are finding fantastic ways to use the Apple ecosystem. Apple always tends to win in that area because of the consumer simple profile of the device. So the mobility piece of it, certainly, the security piece of it. We continue to expand our security footprint, our security capabilities. And companies, again, security is not becoming less important to them. So that's, that's something that we continue to lean into. And as Apple gains market share and we continue to educate the market on our security capabilities, I, that's, that's another nice growth vector for us. David mentioned international. Yeah. David's got some extensive international experience. And I've spent a third of my career living and working outside of the U.S. So together, we have a lot of international experience. One of the things that I first thing I did when I came here back nine years ago, and I said, you know, boy, how much is our business outside the U.S.? And it was like in the low teens, if that. And I was like, man, there's a big world out there. Yeah. And we leaned into that, invested accordingly. And international has grown at a faster pace than the U.S. market. I think, pretty much well, every year, certainly, and I'm pretty sure every quarter since then. Yeah. As we expand on that. So I think, you know, mobility, security, international growth are really good growth factors for us. And then the tailwinds of Apple gaining market share and then the return of the macro, especially in our industries, I think are really good areas for us. Do you think it's, you know, it's hard to know what the future looks like, but do you, I mean, given the headwinds that you've seen, which the seat count headwinds have been certainly noticeable and you've been talking about for a while, do you think the worst of that is behind us at this point? Yeah. I mean, I can't say definitively. What I can say is it's anecdotally what I'm seeing in the marketplace. You know, we would see in that post-COVID, post-great resignation when everybody overhired and they're pulling back from that, we saw companies at renewal, you know, downsell. Say, "Hey, we don't need all those seats because, you know, we actually let people go. And so we have to renew less seats." In the past, we would see them just upsell like crazy. They'd renew and say, "Oh, by the way, we know we have so many open seats or open headcounts, so we're going to hire, you know, we're going to buy ahead." We're seeing that stabilize now. So there's not the downsell that we saw before. But there's certainly not the upside that we saw back in the 30, 30, 30 days. Yeah. But we're seeing it more flat now. Maybe they'll take, you know, tens of licenses or seats more, but it's not 200 less than what they had. Remind us again, like your average contract duration would be? 21 months, yeah. Within—within enterprise. Yeah. It's 21 months, yeah. 21 months. And so if you think about maybe the peak of hiring might have been what, 20, I don't know, maybe some point in 2022. Yeah. And so now we're kind of, you know, we're going on three years from that, you know. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Maybe I'll ask one more and then we'll see if there's a question from the group. Competitively, there's been a lot of change in AirWatch. It's obviously it feels like I don't even know who owns AirWatch anymore these days. But like, could you talk about the broader competitive landscape? Yeah. What opportunities you see there? Yeah. So if you think about competition, it's really bifurcated between the SMB market and that. And the competition there is generally Apple-specific, meaning they don't do all platforms. They focus on the Apple ecosystem, taking a page from our playbook. But it's certainly subscale competitors that, you know, the noise kind of comes and goes. We saw more noise in the beginning of this year as though a couple of them were, at least one of them was trying to get some funding. We've seen that die down considerably since then. You know, being subscale, it's real difficult. One, to carry on, you know, one of the reasons they needed to raise money, of course, but just to carry on in the scalability and not having the security piece in conjunction with the management piece really sets us apart in that area. On the enterprise side, you know, you mentioned AirWatch. I think that a lot of companies were concerned about ongoing development, and innovation, especially at the pace of Apple, given their ownership profile. So we saw a really nice replacement market there. And we continue to see that. Of course, the first thing they did when they thought about selling the company was get extended contracts. Yeah. In place, and so we're working on the renewal structure of those contracts, and at renewal, we're in there talking to them, talking about how to migrate and that type of thing, so that's really the competition that we have. The UEMs, jack of all trades, master of none at the high end and low end, Apple-specific, but subscale and lacking security. Are there? I'll pause here for a second. Is there any questions from anybody out there? Anything Jamf related or Minneapolis Sports related? We're happy to talk Vikings or Timberwolves. Or—or Bears. Or the Bears. Yeah. Oh, you're Bears or Bears? We're both Bears. We're from Illinois. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Sorry. You're not one of us? Stage. I didn't know you were. Oh, I'm Chicago originally. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, so, well, I guess you're not one of, well, you've been part of us long enough. Yeah. I've been part of us long enough. Actually, my first team was the Vikings. Okay. All right. Well, the Bears though, I mean. Yeah. Let's not talk about that. Yeah. All right. We'll get back on track. Sorry. Anything from, raise your hand. No. All right. Oh, no, there we go. Oh, Caleb Williams question. Oh, good Lord. You got this one. Caleb Williams question. Yeah. That was a great question. You're right. Question. Yeah. Question. Not answered yet. Yeah. It's yeah. We're not too scared of him, I would say, yet, but. All right. So when, I mean, I guess, you know, I asked you the political question, from an ed perspective. Do you know, one we heard a lot of people saying, "Oh, you know, there's uncertainty around the election." You know, and maybe that was holding some deals back. I guess when we think about December and more of your enterprise side and I guess from a device refresh perspective, have you historically seen a December budget flush? I can't imagine you're necessarily counting on one this for Q, but have you seen that historically when it comes to spending some of those dollars that were maybe earmarked for new devices that people are using to deploy those at the year end? Yeah. We certainly have. Again, like you said, we haven't planned for it in our guidance for Q4, but we have seen that happen in the past where companies will, especially in uncertain times, they kind of hold on to those dollars and tight-fisted, and then they get to the end of the year and it's like, "Oh my gosh, I got this. I either got to use it or lose it." And then they'll use it. And in a lot of ways, we can, if they have the device management, we can add security on top of that or different security products or, you know, more seats at a discounted price over a longer period of time. And there's a lot of ways that we can help those customers utilize those funds. Okay. Okay. Yeah, and I keep in touch with the Salesforce. Yeah. I'm checking in to say, "Okay. Are you seeing any changes? Yeah. Or anything that tells you? I mean, there's nothing yet. It's obviously. Too early. In a couple of weeks. Yeah. But I think it's something that we're watching because if you do see some type of improvement in spending, I imagine it flows into next year too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Some continuation. I mean, that's. Liz is probably going to choke me. Yeah. Because I'm hitting her with questions. But like, I think it's something we can listen for. And if anything, maybe the pipeline build could be a little better heading into next year. Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's not this year thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe just to wrap up, and so it's a little bit of a softball fat pitch down the middle of the play, but when you—if we're sitting here a year from now or two years from now and growth has improved beyond what we kind of are thinking from a 25 perspective, what do you think the most likely reason for that might be at this point? It's kind of like probably picking your favorite child, which is hard to do. Yeah. But like, you're to say, is it security? Is it, you know, we see some tailwinds in some of these enterprise verticals. Is it enterprise or education? What do you think the recipe for outperformance next year is? You know, we've got good traction in security, as we mentioned. You know, the deskless workflow is really some really exciting green shoots there and how companies are figuring out these innovative ways to do that. But I think the most near-term impact on that would be the return of the upsell, the significant return of the upsell. Return of the upsell. Yeah. Okay. and we're, you know, we're due, right? We're due from a hiring perspective. We're due from an education refresh perspective. Again, it's not something we can count on in a specific month, but if you had, you know, gun to my head, said, "Boy, what would be the biggest impact in the near term? Yeah. That's the biggest moving thing that could happen, I think, in the near term. Yeah. But that's just my thought. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think for me, along with that, I think the partner channel is becoming more important. So we have a relationship with AWS and we have a relationship with Azure as well. Okay. Partners. GSIs and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Service dealers. You know, I think we've seen great success with AWS. Azure is set up similarly where it's a marketplace. And if you're a customer, you can buy and it retires your spend and it retires quota, for the micro sales team. So I'm looking forward to that. You know, over 50% of our revenues are through a channel. Yeah. Yeah. Internationally, it's 80% and the U.S. is lower. But I think the Azure, along with AWS, development maturation, I think could be a driver to that. Excellent. It seems like a lot of good little S-curve opportunities out there. Yeah. But yeah, the return of the when some of those headwinds turn into tailwinds just from a renewal opportunity, that's certainly resonating. That flips the script. Yeah. Totally. Totally. All right, guys. Well, from all of us at RBC, thank you for. Thank you. Supporting Midwest Tech. Yeah. And, yeah, we're, who knows? Maybe we'll get another company out of Midwest Public at some point. Yeah. But, yeah, thanks again for joining and best of luck. Thank you. Cool. Thank you.