Welcome. I'm sorry, and I apologize because I'm using the questions for everyone that is here, so if you kind of heard that before, like heard other people talk about it, I apologize, but like so a lot of stuff has happened since Q3 with us. Yeah. And we had an election. So maybe talk a little bit about, like, what you're seeing out there. Is the world changing? Or, like, you know, how do we feel about it? Yeah. I mean, I can start and then David can pile on. You know, it's a bit early to tell, obviously, just because the election just happened. But we've had some time since we released, you know, our Q3 earnings. We had a good quarter. We beat and raised. And so that's something that was good, right along with expectations, a little higher than that, of course. And, you know, as far as the election and the new administration, we haven't. You know, there's been some concern, "Oh my gosh, is that gonna impact education?" But we have to remember that, you know, education money has been distributed already to the states, and most of it is controlled by the states. So that's been something that's been less of a concern. I've heard. I was at a couple other conferences and meeting with other CEOs, and they talk about, you know, under the new administration, there's gonna be less regulation, there's gonna be more business-friendly. I think some companies are looking at more, you know, potential acquisition, capabilities, especially larger companies. Mm-hmm. Given the tenor, or the expected tenor of the new administration. But that's pretty much what I've seen from our side. It presents a good opportunity for us because to the extent that there's optimism in industry, then, Definitely. You know, that we can take advantage of that. And to the extent that we don't see much downside on the education side, which we don't as a result of that, that's gonna benefit us as well. Yeah. And I think, I think on the education side, I think it's important to note that about 90% of the funding comes from state and local anyways. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So 10% is federal government. You know, I met with a lobbyist in DC, and they were a little skeptical on the ability to cut programs altogether 'cause it requires combined effort in Congress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then on just the macro side as a whole, I think I check with my head of sales every week, and I say, "Is there anything?" and I mean, I think, I think it's kind of progressing as expected. Yeah. Yeah. Right now, you know, we anticipated within the guidance some level of budget plus, but nothing out of the. That was my next question. You're taking my next question. Like, how's budget plus for you guys? Like, is that kind of like a big thing? I mean, the other thing's also, like, is that kind of like, you know, like 10, 15 years ago, it was all about budget plus and then SAP. Yeah. Had this massive Q4 and that type of stuff. Is that kind of still actually in the world of subscription and consumption? Is that actually still really a thing? Yeah. I mean, and I've been in this for a long time as well. And I remember, you know, everything getting into Q4, and not as much now, nowadays. We do tend to see commercial, have a good quarter in Q4. A lot of times it's planned for. There will be some components of that. But I think it's lessened from years in the past. We have seen, given the uncertainty leading up to the election, you know, yes, interest rates are coming down, but what impact is that gonna have in the midterm? Is it, you know, is it gonna increase inflation? And so there's been some uncertainty around that. But I think companies in general have done a little better. I do think that there's some budget there that to the extent they get to the end of this year, they will - they'll utilize it as they have in the past. You know? Yeah. We had a strong Q4 last year. Mm-hmm. And we had a price increase last year, which is the reason our guidance was at high single digits for revenues. But we, you know, analyzed the pipeline and how deals closed and everything. We just assumed it was gonna be a normal flush this year. Yeah. As we've seen in the past. Not like last year, but just kind of normal. Mm-hmm. And then, like, conceptually now, like, no guidance. Conceptually now, if the world is getting better, like, where would you kind of look to see it first in terms of, like, more on the kind of, for you, for John, for you more on the customer side and then, you know, the more for the internal metrics? Like, where would you kind of think to look? Yeah. We've always talked about SMB kind of being the canary in the coal mine. Yeah. When things start to look better, they're able to move faster. So they tend to have more business formation or, you know, hire and invest in things that, so they're generally the first ones. Then enterprise will come along after that. And so that's where we would see it first would be in the SMB side. Education is pretty set. It's very pretty, you know, Q2 and Q3 are larger education quarters. You know, as we look at Q4, we'd see things in the beginning of next year more on the SMB side start to ramp up and then enterprise follow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think on the downsell, 'cause we've seen downsell as the economy has been not favorable over the last couple years. And I think, you know, we always look at, you know, how much shelfware is out there, how many seats are available. I think that'll be the other area as companies start hiring again, they're gonna be at their max, and then we can go back to the customers. And then the. And negotiate more seats, and I think that's the thing we're gonna watch for as things turn, and then on the volume side, we'll just look for volumes to see if it's picking up. Yeah. And then we can get some visibility on that too. I mean, that's the thing. Like, SMB works with SMB sentiment is increasing quite a lot after the election, etc. Mm-hmm. And so, like, so far today as well, like, the guys that are focused, everyone is like, "Yeah, maybe," but, like, it hasn't really translated yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's probably too early. Yeah. Yeah. If you then think about, like, as you think about next year, where are we on, like, other drivers that we kind of think about? Like, there's a, like, an education renewal cycle. Mm-hmm. We obviously had, like, massive investment post-COVID, but, like, a lot of those devices must be coming kind of to an end of life, etc. As you think about, as we or you guys think about next year, like, what are things that you're kind of paying attention to? Yeah. Well, I think, as you mentioned, you know, those, the refresh cycle is something that we're watching very closely. And with education, it's, which is a smaller part of our business, but where we were historically, although commercial has taken the majority of that over since then, you know, we've seen those devices generally last about four years is when the, an education district will go into, to do a refresh cycle. Most of those devices were purchased in late 2020, early 2021. So we're really coming up on that four-year cycle right now. So we're anticipating that at some point. And on the commercial side, after, you know, after COVID, post-COVID, there was a lot of hiring. You remember that. And then there was a lot of layoffs. And tech is a large industry for us as well because it's an early Apple adopter. Yeah. So we did, you know, we did see that downsell as a result of some of those companies laying off employees. And we've seen that lessen over time. So we're watching closely on, you know, on the tech hiring. And when the tech hiring, you know, returns, you know, we've seen it flatten a little bit, but as it returns, we expect to, you know, have some tailwinds from that as well. Remind us, like, a little bit if there's a refresh 'cause it's not a bigger number on the education side, for example. There's not a bigger number of kind of devices. Mm-hmm. It's just refresh devices. Does that change your revenue somehow? Do you get more out of it? Like, how should we think about it? Yeah. Yeah. We've typically seen, you know, companies or, well, school districts if we're talking about education. Yeah. You know, if they've chosen other device platforms, they tend not to be as robust as durable. Mm-hmm. They also, you know, have a finite life cycle, for example, and where the iPads and Apple devices won't. And so we've seen at that time of refresh, Apple could, you know, gain some market share in that area. And that obviously helps us. Yeah. And then, the other things you think about, like, and it's more high level, if you think about next year, is there anything out of Apple that could make things interesting? 'Cause, like, obviously they have, like, you know, all the AI phones or AI chips in the phones, etc. Does that kind of at some point create an opportunity for you guys? It does. It does. And we've heard that from our customers as well. You know, we talk about the refresh cycle in education, but there's also one in the commercial side as well. And we've seen CFOs, given the uncertainty, try to elongate that life cycle of a device a little bit longer, especially on the cusp of what we've all seen in the market with the AI-enabled devices, with the Apple silicon being able to make that device much more powerful and run AI onboard. Again, that's something that Apple is, you know, very interested in. They've stated very interested in is the privacy and having being able to do that on the device. Mm-hmm. And then creating the silicon to be able to do that, to have the power onboard to do that. I think that, you know, companies are looking to leverage that and rather than buy something, you know, immediately, but then all of a sudden then have a refresh of a device that's gonna be able to have more onboard processing power. Yeah. Okay. And, David, just to not put you on the spot, but, like, when you joined, you kind of must have kind of thought about, like, the long-term opportunity. How do you think about, like, from here, like, the growth, the growth formula for Jamf and, where things are, kind of playing out? Yeah. I think we have a very solid foundation in management that we can leverage. Yeah. We've added security. It's now about 25% of ARR growing in the mid-20% range. That, and then also the international opportunity too. We're about a third of revenues internationally now. I think it's a massive opportunity. Education is a growth area outside of the U.S. too 'cause we've signed up multiple countries as a whole to provide security and/or management to the devices, and then on the channel side too, we've been expanding the channel. We've about 80% of revenues are channel-driven outside the U.S. In the U.S., it's about 40%. We can do a better job in the U.S., and we've expanded. We have AWS as a partner. We've just signed Azure. We went live with Azure. Yeah. We're in both of their marketplaces. Customers of Amazon, AWS, and Azure, they can buy Jamf now as part of their annual spend. And then the sales teams can get quota retirement for us too. So we're trying to spread it everywhere. And then on top of that, it's the mobile device too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mobile is a huge opportunity. The deskless world, everybody's got a phone or two or three, watches, the Vision Pro. I think, that's an area where you need security, and a lot of people might not think you do, but it's an area that we're pushing very hard, and we're seeing nice traction there too. Yeah. You know? I mean, like, and on the mobile side, do you think, like, you know, even since the IPO, we've been talking about, like, "Oh, mobile," because on the Mac side, you have a very high market share. Mm-hmm. On the mobile side, the market share is not, like, you know, quite as high. But there were a lot of vendors that were playing in there that kind of took some of the mobile market share. But then those vendors are just kind of a part of a bigger beast that is kind of charging you five times for what you had before. Yeah. Not to talk about Broadcom or, like, in smaller, in different hands. How do you think about that mobile conversion story? Yeah. Well, that, as you mentioned, that's created a great replacement market for us. And we've gotten a lot of mobile customers and devices in the tens of thousands a quarter from that opportunity. You know, the thing that excites me when I think about future possibility is just the expansion of the TAM of the mobile or deskless, like David mentioned, the deskless opportunity. We've got, you know, you can do baggage tracking by having a watch under management and an RFID in the baggage tag on the bag. And every time a baggage handler touches that bag, they know where that bag was and where it is and when it was there, saving, you know, carriers millions of dollars and having to track bags and use scanning devices, things like that. You know, retail outlets, you know, when's the last time you walked into a retail store and went to an old-school cash register? I mean, they're all mobile devices now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all of these devices that employees are carrying around, they're thinking, companies are thinking up of new and innovative ways to use them that we haven't even thought of yet. And all of those devices need to be both managed because they have to have the applications on that device, and especially if it's a shift work. So the person on first shift will turn in that iPad, and then the manager from the second shift will pick up that iPad, log in, and it immediately has all of the details of that second shift manager, nothing to do with the first shift manager. And those are the things that, you know, manufacturing companies are using retail outlets. It's just way expanded the traditional clamshell corporate sitting at a desk working on a laptop. Yeah. So yeah, it does look. And, as part of the kind of changing world, like, and I did, you know, I apologize again. I did ask the question to kind of all the other guys, but how do you think about GenAI now playing in? And we mentioned, like, Apple kind of doing potentially something there, but how do you guys kind of do it more out of from a Jamf perspective? Sure. Well, we use it internally in a lot of areas, research and development, for example, with our support and services organization to help query the massive amounts of information that's out there on Jamf and Apple devices and how to fix and do these things. But what's most exciting is how we're using it in our product going forward. So one of the advantages of having both management and security together is because if you find a vulnerability from the security standpoint, you can actually remediate it or do something about it. Yeah. There's whole industries out there that are based on analyzing and interpreting the telemetry that comes from those endpoints in, and if we have the management capability to do something about it, and we can put AI on top of that so that it can help decipher all that data coming in. Mm-hmm. And then automatically do something to remediate that, I mean, that's the, that's really where the market's going in our area. Yeah. And then, I mean, you mentioned a little bit the security, you know, upsell opportunity, but also the change in the industry there. Where are we on that security journey for you in terms of, like, you know, upselling, cross-selling? Yeah. that into the installed base? Well, to use a baseball analogy, we're in the. German doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. It's, you know, early innings, like second innings, really. Yeah. I mean, it's, we're early in the game, because of the fact that there's just so much. One, security is not becoming any less important. Bad actors are becoming even more sophisticated. Apple, as an operating system, is super secure, but as it expands into the corporate environment, it becomes a bigger and more valuable target. So again, security is becoming even more and more important, and there's so many different new vectors that bad actors can come in, whether it's through the network or endpoint, you know, the endpoint, management or protection capability, mobile threat defense. There's so many aspects of security that you have to cover. So we think that that's a great opportunity for us, especially as we do it Apple-specific. You know, there's a ton of great products out there that are primarily written for Windows. Yeah. Some of them will do some things in the Apple ecosystem, but they're primarily written for the Windows environment. But we are Apple-first and Apple-best, and that's where we focus. And we handle a lot of things natively. And where are we on penetration levels? And then question is, is there an argument to think about pricing packaging differently that, you know, you have, like, that SKU is the new SKU and that security in there so you kind of force things? Or, like, how do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, as David said, it's a, you know, a smaller percentage of our overall ARR. That's a good thing 'cause there's a lot of upside opportunity there. Yeah. About 40% of our customers have, the management customers have at least one security product on that device. But the nice thing about it is that every device can have one device management product, but every device can have five or more security products, and many times do. Yeah. Because it's network security, it's endpoint protection, it's mobile threat defense. All of these different security products will roll into that. So there's a lot of opportunity still even to grow yet from within our existing customer base. Yeah. Okay. And then how do you think about, like, overall pricing and packaging, like? Yeah. If you, on that one, just kind of like to go back. Yeah. No, that's a good point. And I didn't answer the last part of your question, but I should have. The mobile, so the security, we have a security suite. We just released it last August, I think it was, mobile security suite that won the Mobile Security Solution of the Year award. And so we're getting some external market accolades that our security product is working really well, especially bundling them together. So we have a product called Business Plan, and that has both our management and our security products in. Yeah. That, the adoption of that, particularly in Q3, it's really ramped up. We continue to see that as a way into the future to really because they are one and two sides of the same coin, management and security. Customers are taking advantage of that by buying the bundled product. Yeah. Okay. It is an embedded price increase. Yeah. Yeah. Right? 'Cause they're going from managing, you know, using the management tool to then this bundled approach that includes the five different security tools too. Yeah. Yeah. And so we released that, and we're seeing nice traction with that. But that will just, you know, in the long run, security and management should be together. I think John's talked about the convergence of security and management. And I think how it's bought, I think that will adjust too in the future. Yeah. 'Cause you really need management to manage security too. How does i-identity kind of play in there? Yeah. I mean, that's a big part of the security piece of it. And of course, we're partnered very closely with Okta as an example. We also integrate into Entra on the Microsoft side. So there's a lot of identity capabilities that we have ourselves and connect, but then also integrate into other solutions as well. Yeah. Okay, and then I want to shift gears a little bit. Like, if you, and we, we talked a little bit about it earlier already that you're kind of gaining some of the mobile customers from other players. Like, your industry fundamentally has changed in a way. You have, like, the Microsoft more on the Microsoft world, and they, they got a lot better on their kind of on their mobile side. You have a lot of kind of other vendors that are out there that are still, like, not doing, you know, that well. Then you have, like, you as the kind of the hero in the Apple ecosystem. How do you see any kind of industry evolutions in terms of people kind of realizing, "Okay, there's, like, two big players in a way, like you and Microsoft," and kind of consolidate on them? Where are we on that journey? Yeah. And we partner very closely with Microsoft. Yeah. You know, David just mentioned that, you know, we now have Azure cloud capability. Yeah. Before, we were just AWS. AWS is still a fantastic partner, but we expanded that into include Azure. Being part of the Azure marketplace, of course, not only do Microsoft sales reps get quota retirement from selling Jamf because it's part of their marketplace, and it uses Azure cycles. That's a benefit, but we also have over a dozen integrations with Microsoft today. Yeah. So we'll put that endpoint information into Defender, you know, we're integrated with Entra. We're integrating in the Sentinel as well. So there's a lot of things that we do with Microsoft, and people say, "Oh, you know, is it an either/or situation?" And it's really not. It's a Microsoft and Jamf in many cases. If you have more than one ecosystem in your environment, you know, we've spent over two decades developing at the pace of Apple. And that's something that we really are one of the only ones that have ever been able to do that, working so closely with Apple. And we'll continue to do that and then supplement the things like what a Microsoft might need from the Apple ecosystem or companies that have focused primarily on Apple. We're the chosen partner for them. Yeah. I mean, like, if you partner with Microsoft, like, how does that work? Because, like, in a way, you have this call it co-opetition a little bit. Yeah. Like, or do you, like, how much is it competition versus kind of cooperation? Like, how do you, and how do you keep that kind of balance? Yeah. There's one area where we overlap. Even then that would be their product, their device management product, again, written for Windows, can do some things on Apple. Yeah. We even integrate into that. Yeah. It's much, much more on the co-opetition side versus the competition side, on the cooperation side more so, just given the capabilities that we have. And again, you know, Microsoft works with us specifically because we are focused on the Apple ecosystem and can do that. And they're focused on the Windows operating system. Yeah. Okay. I want to shift gears a little bit. Like, so David, you joined, being a successful CFO before. Like, what was the mandate, like, when you joined, like, are we kind of continuing what you do? Like, are you changing, you know? Yeah. So I think first thing is get familiar with the company, get to know the company. Yeah. Better than anybody in the business 'cause you gotta tell the story. Yeah. Yeah. You know, understand how investors view things. We're working on the plan around it. So my first month was board meeting, earnings call, conferences, investor meetings, building the plan. Yeah. So I guess it is the perfect time. If you could write a book on how to start as CFO, this is how you do it. Yeah. Yeah. Because you gotta get up to speed very quickly. I think for me, continuing on with our progression on margins. If you look at our incremental revenue growth this year, we're growing that, we're returned to the bottom line about 70% of that. And so looking at gaining efficiencies with the business, being more productive, and being mindful of growth, right? Mm-hmm. We have to prioritize growth, but we have to spend smartly for that growth. Mm-hmm. I think those are the things that we're gonna look to do, and you know, I think the North Star is Rule of 40 by 2026. I think that is the goal, and you know, unlevered free cash flow, that's the other item. I don't think a lot of people talk about or think about it. It's grown at 70% this year. We've been able to grow it substantially over the last two years, and that growth will continue. Mm-hmm. I'm very pleased with the company, its market position. You know, we don't have, you know, we have competition. I call it competition 'cause the product is exceptionally good. It's been a pleasure getting to know John and the team, and I'm excited for next year. Yeah. And then, like, I mean, there has been a meaningful improvement in profitability, already. Like, how do you think about, like, as you go in there, you know, can you do more? Like, is it kind of tuning it now? Like, how do you, you know, but then if you think about recovery, do you know, do you invest again a little bit, in terms of sales capacity, etc.? How do you think about balancing all of it? Yeah. We did a complete study on the sales capacity with our modeling for next year. Yeah. And we've been able to kind of slice and dice the numbers. And it really comes down to focusing on the leveraging, leverage of the business and managing headcount heads. I think the teams have done a great job of being able to manage through. We made some changes earlier this year and really focusing on efficiency and productivity. So it's a mindset of the company. Mm-hmm. And that's what we'll roll forward into next year. You know, I think we're well positioned if there's a macro recovery, and looking at how we spend money next year. And then how set are you guys? I mean, you mentioned growth. How set are you guys on the Rule of 40 in terms of how do you get there? I mean, it's, you know, there's like 10/30, 30/10. 10/10. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there kind of a, "Oh, no, we want to be this"? Or, like, how do you think about that? I think we will prioritize growth. Mm-hmm. If there's growth that we can see and invest in, we will do that. If there's not growth, then we will return on the bottom line. I think that's, as always, a healthy balance, but understand we will always, always prioritize growth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Makes sense, and then, if you think about, like, you know, coming out of the downturn and going to the better times, but everyone got more efficient in terms of how they fought and what they do, how do I have to think about, like, your need to reinvest, you know, because there's sales productivity that's still coming again, so you don't need to hire that much sales guys, and I don't want to get into your kind of budgets for next year, but, like, how do you think about just conceptually about that, the evolution of the industry in terms of kind of throwing bodies at a problem versus kind of understanding, "I can do this smarter"? Yeah. And I would say that's a great point. I think the answer has always been, "We need to do more work, so let's throw more bodies at it. Yeah. Right? And I think over the last couple of years, that mindset has really changed. And not just us, I think it's many companies out there. Now it's more of, "Let's dig through, let's be managers, let's manage people, understand their skills, and then upgrade as needed. Mm-hmm. I think that is the mindset that people will take forward out of this cycle as recovery happens. I don't see it where everybody's gonna go crazy spending again because everybody still believes that you need to be profitable, you need to return to the bottom line. Will they prioritize growth? Of course, they will, but always with the mindset that we need to return a margin to the business. Mm-hmm. And remember, we've done a series of things to help with that efficiencies already. We had a comprehensive technical update of our system, and that we did in August. You know, we're seeing the benefits of that already in leveraging our third-party channel as one of many things. But in the past, our third-party channel couldn't come in and even register their own deals. So they had to call a Jamf salesperson for a channel partner. Yeah. Yeah. To get that deal. Now they can do that, and that's been a great efficiency. It's gonna help us leverage more of the inner of the third-party channel, which is gonna increase our sales productivity. So there's some things that we've worked on already that should have the benefits of that as well. Yeah. Okay. Perfect, and then last question for me is about capital structure, so now as we're coming out, it's like, "Okay, world is a maybe hopefully better place." How do you think about, like, where you are in terms of balance sheet, what you want to do with the money? The beauty is here we generate a lot of cash flow. Yeah. It's only gonna improve as we get more efficient with the business. Mm-hmm. We have a $375 million convertible note that comes due September 26. We're doing work right now to see kind of how we do, what do we do with that, what's the financing. We'd like to do something before it goes current. We also have a line of credit of $175 million that's untapped, $200 million cash on the books plus cash on the books. So if you look over the next couple of years, we will, we will generate a lot of cash. Mm-hmm. This year, we're gonna generate about 70% growth in cash flow. And if you look and you map it out and achieve that Rule of 40, that growth likely continues. Yeah. Well, it'll have to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we were watching the convertible market. It's quite strong right now. We go into quiet period next week. So coming out of earnings, we'll reevaluate and see what we can do. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Hey, in a way, that's a good closing statement as well. Hey. Yeah. Thanks for joining me. Yeah. Thank Thank you. I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Thanks for that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.