Well, good morning, and welcome to the Needham Growth Conference. My name is Josh Reilly, and I'm an analyst on the enterprise software team. I'm excited to have Jamf here this morning. We have CEO, John Strosahl, and CFO, Ian Goodkind, and I appreciate you guys attending our conference again this year, as you normally do, and look forward to some interesting questions here. So, you know, John and Ian, maybe we could just start with an overview of Jamf. I think a lot of investors are familiar with what you guys do, but maybe the one point you could touch on is how over the last couple years the security offerings have become more instrumental in terms of the platform. Yeah, sure. I'll take that one, Josh. Well, first and foremost, you know, our purpose is to simplify work, and we've chosen Apple's consumer simple technology and devices to do that. Because we focus on Apple, we've got a distinct advantage there, especially obviously as it relates to the Apple install base, which is growing. You know, we're the clear leader in that space, over 74,000 customers, closing in on 32 million devices under management, and, you know, our roots were really in the EDU market, where we started over 20 years ago. But that since obviously expanded into the commercial side as well, and that's actually the faster-growing part of our business, and about 70% of our ARR comes from our commercial space. You know, innovating at the pace of Apple really keeps us, you know, ahead of the curve, both on the security side as well as on the management side. You know, I think the thing with security, you talk about that a little bit, you know, we didn't just get into security by happenstance. It was really a request from our customers. When we talked to our customers at JNUC. You've been to JNUC, our user conference, and, you know, we get great opportunity to speak with a lot of customers there. And we asked them, "You know, what's holding back your device expansion, on the Apple side?" Because we've all seen the Fletcher Previn presentations and others that said, you know, two-thirds of the people given a choice, both in commercial as well as education, will choose an Apple device. Many times that's what they've used, especially if they're early in their career, that's all they've ever used. You know, we asked, "Why, why isn't the expansion, you know, faster than it is? It's, it's happening for sure, but why isn't it faster?" The response from the InfoSec teams and the IT teams was, "You know, we don't 100% trust all of those devices to access our corporate resources." We thought, "Interesting." So we really leaned in heavily into the security space, bought some technology, you know, acquired some technology and then built some on top of that. You know, security has been really, really doing well and resonating with our customers. In fact, you know, when we went public, we had a $6 million ARR business in security, and I think at the end of Q3, we posted almost $120 million of ARR coming from security. It's 21% of our ARR, growing at over 30% year-over-year. So in itself, it's a, it's a pretty nice little security business, but again, it's, it's because we've just... We've met what our customers were asking for, and, you know, we continue to iterate on that and, and innovate at the pace of, of Apple, and, and that's really what distinguishes us from our competitors because we're Apple focused. When you talk about a, a UEM, it's kind of a jack of all trades. And really because we focus on the Apple piece of it, we can do the same zero-day release, which is to have our products work on the new Apple releases when they come out. And by definition, UEM just isn't, because they can't focus on the Apple ecosystem. Got it. Appreciate the overview there. So John, you've now been CEO for roughly a quarter. Congrats on that, by the way. But preparing for the takeover, for a good portion of 2023, and you kind of, you know, have been, you know, preparing for this for a bit now. Now that you've had some time to evaluate the landscape as officially CEO, what, if anything, should we expect to change in 2024, and how are you thinking about your own kind of personal priorities for management here over the next year? Yeah, sure. Well, first and foremost, you know, we've. We sat and we talked about our out years and our planning, and in our 2024 planning, but also 2025 and 2026, which we'll talk about at our upcoming Investor Day. You know, we really wanted to sit and think about our core beliefs and what underpins those things. And one of the things that we kept coming back to as an executive team is that the cornerstone of our success has really been our culture. And it's. You know, we have high, you know, mid- to upper 70s on employee engagement. We have mid-50s on our NPS. We've got numerous great places to work accolades, and I think all of those things lead to the people care. I mean, they really care about their colleagues, their customers, the company, and it shows. So the first thing I cannot do is mess with that. Now, I've been part of that for the last eight years, so it's not... None of it's new to me. I understand it deeply and intimately, but we wanna make sure that we don't do things that are gonna tip that over because that's really been, you know, a cornerstone. You know, Dean and I worked really hard on the strategy over the last eight years, and we worked side by side over that, and as you mentioned, this was a very planned transition. So there's no hard right turn on the freeway. Our strategy's a good one, and we're just gonna continue to execute on that. You know, I think now is the time where we take the company into the next phase of that, and that's the scalable growth and balanced growth. So we make sure we maintain that really good growth level and increase that growth level, but at the scalability that we can maintain our profitability and even expand that, as we've talked about before. So those are some of the things that we're really focused on, that balanced growth, scalable growth. And in our growth vectors there, international, we'll talk more about that. We have in the past, and I'm sure we'll talk more about it in the future. Mobile, mobile's got a great installed base that we haven't even scratched the surface on that yet, and it's gonna continue to expand with BYOD, and all of the new devices that are coming out, the industry workflows that Apple is leaning into. Then security, we talked about that as well, and we continue to see great traction there, that our customers really, really like that. Got it. Great. So the macro continues to be a hot topic, obviously, for us here in software. Device expansions were the biggest headwind for you guys as new customer growth actually remained fairly steady in 2023. Will we need to see an improvement in tech hiring for device expansion to improve, or do you think it's gonna be more driven by the product cycle with the new M3 chipset devices coming out? Yeah, I'll take that one, Josh. So a reminder, you know, our growth algorithm has always been and will always be new logo, upsell, and cross-sell. And as you mentioned, your new logos have stayed pretty consistent. We do see some opportunities there or some tailwinds, and the MacBook does continue to have a lower total cost of ownership than PCs, which does help companies in this economy evaluate them for putting them in, you know, putting choice programs in, in their companies, which bodes well for Apple. I think you're right on upsell. You know, it has been muted. You know, our customers haven't been hiring at the same pace they've been hiring historically. But in Q3, 8 of our top 10 deals did have a component of upsell. It was smaller than it's been in the past, but that's a good sign, and, you know, I'm not ready to call bottom yet, but it's a good sign. And then we've really been focused on cross-sell, right? The security aspect. You know, our Trusted Access and messaging has really resonated with customers. Again, especially in this economy because they're consolidating both their, their management side and their security side. And so, you know, the way I look at those things is I, I look at NRR. We've talked about NRR has declined over the year. You know, we've, we've said in Q4, we do expect it to decline similar to what it was in Q3, and we're not quite ready to call bottom, but we do think those other things bode well for us as we go into 2024. Got it. So your contracts, for those who are less familiar, typically range in length from one to three years. Some education contracts are obviously longer. Given all the layoffs in tech, many customers have not only not expanded devices but had some downsell. Do you feel that we are kind of past the worst of the downsell, assuming the caveat that employment doesn't get worse from here? Or do you think there's still some contracts to renew at lower device counts in 2024? Yeah. I'll jump in here. On the contract side, I think we've been through the worst of it. If you think about the education side, really, they've been reconciling their devices post-COVID, and I think we're mostly through that. On the commercial side, like you said, unless employment gets worse, I think we've gotten through those contracts. But I do think drivers on the commercial side will be the continued strength in the replacement market. I think, you know, it is going to be a refresh cycle. Like IDC and others do point out, we are coming up on a refresh cycle post-COVID now, and again, we're leaning into the security aspect and really getting stronger and stronger at security. So I think those are some of the things that will bode well again for us as we move forward. Got it. Yep. So for the first time in a number of years, you had some price increases in early 2023 on the core products. Now that these are kinda layering the model, how are these being absorbed and received by customers, and should we expect a more regular cadence to price increases going forward, assuming inflation kind of remains consistently in this 2%-3% level going forward? Yeah, so in, Just as a reminder for everyone, what we did in, in January of 2023, we did have a 10% increase on Jamf Pro for commercial customers only. Given that we, do have a 21-month average contract length, we'll continue to see that impact in 2024, and we did see some in 2023. But our pricing philosophy is, as we add new features, we'll continue to raise prices. But in areas like our bundles or user plans, we do actually have an annual price increase every year. Got it. That's helpful. The Broadcom-VMware deal, you know, it took a while, but it finally closed. We know there was a lot of opportunities in the hopper there for you guys. Are you still bullish now that the deal is closed, and maybe are you hearing anything different from customers that, you know, would be helpful to highlight with investors? Well, I agree. It's, you know, we're still early in this replacement market. We are bullish. You know, we've been competing there for quite a while and, you know, winning customers. I think, it's not all gonna happen at one time, though. These customers, ours as well, but certainly theirs, have multi-year contracts, and we know of those customers. We're talking to them, and as they come up for renewal is really an opportunity for us, and they don't all come for renewal at the same time, and so we're working with them on that. You know, we've seen, you know, as I mentioned before, a lot of these UEM competitors, and this being one of them, because they haven't focused on Apple specifically, there's things that have fallen short. It just... And the continued development, you know, we innovate at the pace of Apple. We say, "When Apple innovates, Jamf celebrates," because that just creates another opportunity for us to distinguish ourselves from our competitors. And I think, you know, what we're hearing from the market is that the faith in having that continued innovation at the pace of Apple, there's not a lot of confidence in that, especially given the investment and things going on in the marketplace. We're really, you know, offering a safe landing for those Apple installed bases, and it's, you know, it's resonating certainly with our customers. Got it. This is kind of an interesting question that I haven't heard come up before. When you look at your new customer growth, if you think about the TAM penetration, this is a question I get a lot. Are you winning a similar mix of enterprise versus SMB customers in the new customer count that you were a few years ago, or do you think that the enterprise market is a lot more mature in terms of new customer acquisition? Yeah, I'll take this one. I, looking back at data that, you know, we always go back and look, this is a really interesting question. If you look at our mix based on an ARR basis, our mix actually hasn't shifted. It's been about two-thirds are in actually SMBs/mid-market, which we define as 2,500 or less employees, and then about a third is in the enterprise, and that has been relatively consistent over the last several years. We are a volume business, right? We do resonate really well at the SMB side. What's been resonating well there is the Business Plan that we've talked about. Customers are seeing that value when they have, you know, Apple devices to deploy that they can both manage and secure them, and so that's really been a very good success for us. I think the enterprise, though, is what helps us, you know, stabilize churn, right? Those customers, once they're in, they don't, they don't tend to leave, and they have a pretty strong base, and they've stuck with us, and they continue to go upstream with new products. So it's been a really good balanced approach, and I've... I think I've said this, you know, in other forums, diversity is our friend, right? Having all these different ways in to different customers has really helped us, you know, maintain a very strong business profile. Yeah. Oh, Josh, the only thing I'd add to that is, you know, I don't know that we wanna be single-threaded either way. I mean, we really enjoy having the breadth across both of those different segments because the volume business really helps us innovate to what customers are needing. But then the high-end enterprise really helps us validate the scalability of our business, and when the small customers see the big companies using it, of course, they wanna use that, and the big companies use it because we've been able to innovate based on the input from the smaller customers. So really those two things are very symbiotic, and that's something we wanna continue to have a balanced business with. Got it. Yep. No, that makes a lot of sense. So, the mix of customers with both security and device management continues to increase. I believe the latest data point that you've given is it's over 20% of customers now. How much is the Jamf Business Plan driving this whole ecosystem sale, and, are there any successes that you wanna highlight in 2023 around Jamf Business Plan adoption? Yeah, I, I'll go in on this one. So, like, and I remarked on it a little bit and hinted on this on a few of the other questions, we are gaining traction. When, when customers think about, in this economy, being able to consolidate their management and security on a, you know, with one vendor, that bodes well, right, in this economy where CFOs like myself are saying, "Hey, I want to consolidate our spend. Let's, let's make sure we're being smart about it," and, and that's really been a very successful way for market for us. Using Q3, we had 87% growth in all our user plans, but specifically with the Business Plan, it was our second highest net new ARR, and Q3 came from that Business Plan. So it's really resonating well, and I continue for us to continue to see success there. Got it. Moving on to the education business, you know, I think all of us who kind of track this market, you know, knew that that segment had a tough 2023. Really, a lot of that had to do with the 2020 COVID boom and kind of the renewal dynamics there, versus any, like, changes in overall market share. Can you maybe just expound on the cyclicality of the education business a bit and how COVID may have pulled forward some demand, and what does that imply for the cycle of device growth in 2024? Yeah, that's a good point, Josh. You know, we used to... So the cyclical business patterns of education happened before COVID even. We used to, you know, we'd, we'd see it come up and then go down a little bit over a multi-year period and then come up again, and it really was consistent with both the innovation of the technology as well as when they bought and when they adopt it and when they digest all the devices that they bought, and we used to call it the thundering herd. "Oh, here comes the thundering herd, and then, and here comes education again." And then COVID happened, and it kind of disrupted that pattern a little bit. It made this a similar pattern, I should say, but just disrupted the timing of it. You know, at the end of 2020 and then into 2021, I would argue that the back half of 2022 was very similar to that, but certainly in late 2020 and early 2021, you know, all these government programs, the CARES Act in the U.S., GIGA project in Japan, DigiPakt in Germany, Taiwan Ministry of Education, they all went as close to the one-to-one as they could get. Now, some of them didn't get there. Some of them are six to one, where there's six kids to every device, and they plan on getting closer to that one to one as they continue to digest the devices that they got. But we really did see a peak at that time. It just started... Not a peak as far as time forever, but certainly at that time, it really shot up. And I think all of these things were being planned by the educational institutions, but it just kind of accelerated that. I wouldn't even call it pulling it forward because, you know, I have a fifth grader, and she has an iPad, and no one's taking that iPad away. Everything's on there, homework and how to do math and everything else. So I think all that's gonna continue. We just shortened the timeline to when that's gonna happen or accelerated it. You know, when we look at the lease periods for the devices, both inside the U.S. and outside the U.S., you know, as you mentioned, it's a little longer than what an enterprise may do, 3 to sometimes 4 years, average around 4 years. Given when we saw that peak buying happen post-COVID in that funding period, you know, we do expect a refresh cycle, along with the rest of the industry. It's not just us that expects it, but certainly we're expecting a refresh cycle. The advantage there is that, given the time that they've deployed not just the Apple devices, but other devices, we've heard customers comment on some of the other device types, the durability of them may not be as good as the Apple device. We've also seen complaints or heard complaints about a finite life cycle of some of these devices, where you get to the point where you can't upgrade some devices, but you certainly can with the iPad. And so we do expect not only the refresh cycle, but we expect even more market share coming to Apple because of those things. A lot of times, these other devices were purchased early on just given the price alone, but then after they've done some TCO work after the fact, they've realized that, you know, when you have to replace a device three times, it's not necessarily less expensive, and so we hope to see more of that come Apple's way, and obviously we're ready to support that. So we do expect that refresh cycle to happen, and potentially in 2024, and we do expect more business to come Apple's way. Got it. Just a follow-up on the education question there. Do you think that the penetration of the one-to-one device count is higher in the US or in international markets? Because a lot of the markets in Asia, I know they've done a lot of work in getting up to that one-to-one device count. Or just give us a sense of, like, how do you see the market opportunity there? Well, and as you talk about just even Asia as a market, you look at Japan, and many of the school districts, not all of them, but many of them really got closer to that 1:1. But again, not all of them. But in the Taiwan Ministry of Education, we saw more of a 6:1. And then they put capability to where the government would purchase the first device, and if the parents... Now they're putting an online store up such that the parents can buy a device for their child. And then the government will support some of the software, including our software, on that device, as long as the parents buy it so that the kids can have a closer to a 1:1 ratio. But what we're hearing from the market is that when the refresh cycle comes, some of that funding will also expire here in the next, you know, 12-14 months, both in and outside the U.S., some of that funding. And so we expect for some of those funds to be actually used to up the count, the ratio of some of those devices to more of a 1-to-1. But not all of them are the same. And I guess, even in the U.S., some states have gone 1-to-1, and others haven't been able to do that. Some districts haven't been able to do that, but we expect to be closer to that 1-to-1 as we move forward. Got it. But the takeaway is essentially there's still a lot more room for device growth to get closer to 1:1 over time, even in the United States, we're not- There is. Both on the ratio side, and as well as the refresh cycle, given the challenges that our customers have had with other device types outside of Apple. Got it. Yep. So in my discussions at JNUC in September, I would say that the customers were the most enthusiastic that I've seen in the years that I've been going to the event around product and roadmap. You know, we've got Declarative Device Management as an important topic, and Platform SSO in focus. How do you maintain this kind of product leadership in 2024, given that some of your maybe startup competitors are a bit stretched on the capital side, right? Can you take the advantage to kind of further strengthen your product leadership versus what some others are doing? Well, absolutely, and we have. We work very closely with Apple. We have for 20 years. And we really pride ourselves on differentiating ourselves based on our innovation at the pace of Apple. And each time Apple innovates something, you know, let's just use Declarative Device Management as one example, but there are many, you know, that really provides an opportunity for us to do one more thing that sets us apart from the competition. And the Declarative Device Management is where, instead of being a server asking the device, "Have you updated yet? Has anything changed yet?" time after time after time, even if nothing has changed, Declarative Device Management has the device that actually will tell the server when something has changed. So that cuts down on your bandwidth. There's a whole host of benefits to that, but you have to design your product such that it goes from device to server versus server to device, and that isn't the case with all other types of device management, much less security piece. So that, again, really provides a differentiator for us, you know, with Connect, for example, and we continue to add functionality to that. You know, we added the ZTNA, which, you know, our customers were really excited about. Remote access, we've done a lot of things that not only have our customers asked for, but it again sets us just that one step apart. Because when you're a UEM and you have to create a product for all different platforms, you can't do things differently for one platform only because you're trying to support all of them at the same time, and that again, really, really sets us apart. So we're excited about it, and our customers are excited about it. Got it. Yeah, I think that's, that's an important point. If you look at the way the legacy UEM business worked on the Windows and the Android side, there was, in my opinion, a lot less product differentiation than what's capable in terms of the Apple ecosystem. So I think that's an important point for investors. If you look at the competitive landscape, what are you seeing in terms of the, the venture-backed startups maybe struggling to invest at the pace they previously were due to the interest rate dynamics? You know, my checks indicate you're actually winning back some customers from these vendors. Is that a, a trend that you would expect to continue in 2024? Well, we would. And, you know, I think, you know, if we look back, these macroeconomic headwinds that we've had over the last, you know, 18, 20 months or so or more, has hurt, you know, businesses in general, but specifically the smaller businesses that don't have that scale in order to continue that investment, that you need in order and especially in this market, and to keep up with the pace of Apple specifically, would be one of the areas that we really lean into very, very heavily. And I think, we've seen that stress come across in our competitors. When those competitors would get business initially, they would really lean heavily into price, and it was all about price, price, price. Well, now some of those have come up for renewal, and they're forced to increase the price pretty significantly, and that isn't kind of what that customer signed up for. And on top of that, yes, you can get a simplified solution that's very inexpensive, but that doesn't mean that it gets you to the scale and the functionality that you need, especially as your business grows. So we've seen customers come back for a couple different reasons. One is the scalability and functionality simply isn't there past the very thin surface. And then secondly, pricing hasn't held there, and for a variety of reasons. So we've seen, you know, customers come back in both of those areas. Got it. Yeah, that's super helpful. On the international business, you know, you have a healthy mix of international relative to kind of the size of your business. I believe it's close to 35% of ARR, and it's also pretty nicely diversified, too, on a global basis. What are some of the priorities to kind of extend the sales channel with international markets in 2024? We know historically you've kind of tracked Apple's growth in the enterprise, and then maybe touch anything specifically in the APAC region you're doing to grow. For sure. Well, you know, I gotta say, you know, international's been a focus of mine since I came to the company. I've spent about a third of my career outside the U.S. And it's... You know, so when you look at a problem or an issue or a product, you look at it from a global basis versus a North America or a U.S.-only specific. And that's helped our business diversify our revenue sources considerably, and as you mentioned, over a third of our business is coming from outside the U.S. But Apple has over half of their business coming from outside the U.S., so we really have a lot of greenfield there that we can expand upon, and we have tremendous relationships with Apple, not only in the U.S. but also outside the U.S. as well. I personally do with the person who heads up Europe, and then also the worldwide enterprise piece, who also is based in London. The head of Apple Japan, I, you know, have dinner with him when I go there each time, and we talk about how to increase Mac in the Japanese marketplace. So great relationships that we can leverage heavily, heavily, and that's a focus and a passion of mine, so we've got a lot of space to grow there, especially given Apple's installed base. You know, I think, you know, the security piece is also, especially you talk about APAC, Japan in particular, very security-conscious market. In past lives when I've had businesses in Japan, we've sold a ton of security products there, very security-minded. And so I think that's gonna be a nice market for us with that sector, and that's still nascent. It's still just, you know, early stages on that. You know, I expect our growth of security, iOS, and international really is where our growth vectors are gonna come from. Sure. Yep. All right, so moving on to some financial questions here. We've discussed this before, but ARR growth benefited, as we already noted, due to the price increases earlier in the year. Does this become a headwind at some point during 2024 that investors should kind of be aware of ahead of time here? And is that gonna impact ARR per managed device, is a metric that some of us watch pretty closely, as the year kind of progresses, or is this kind of, you know, something to watch more for in 2025? As you mentioned, the average contract length is 21 months. Just help us kind of level-set the dynamics there. Yeah, so yeah, like, like you heard me say, you know, our average contract length is 21 months, and it was a 10%, you know, increase. And we have, I'll call it, you know, single-impact growth on revenue in 2023. We'd expect that to continue to actually grow in 2024, so you will not see some kind of headwind within 2024. And then what I would say on 2025 and beyond, you know, based on your question, like we talked about earlier, our user plans have, you know, automatic increases annually, and you've heard the success and the growth in that, particular product and area, so we don't anticipate it becoming a headwind over time. Got it. Yeah, that's a helpful point there. All right, if you look at the net revenue retention, maybe you could just help us unpack a couple items here. How has gross retention been trending in 2023? Was it fairly consistent? And second, how much has the security cross-sell offset the headwind from lower device growth with customers? And then I got a follow-up to that, but we'll start with that. All right, I'm gonna give you actually more of my discussion on NRR and then circle back a little bit to the gross. But, you know, we've said, you know, for the last several quarters, we've been talking about the fact that it's been very heavily impacted by the macroeconomics and the lack of customer hiring. So just a couple stats there. When you look at this year, Q3, versus last year, Q3, 80% of the decline in NRR related to upsell, about 15% of that related to downsell, and the rest is lost logo. Meaning lost logo has stayed fairly consistent. You know, we expect this. Or the other thing I should mention, though, is the decline from sequential quarters, so when I'm talking about Q2 to Q3, that was basically all upsell. We didn't see any change, like they were in spitting distance, both the downsell and the new, and the lost logo. So what it's telling me is that things are starting to stabilize a little bit, and that's why I've said, "Hey, I think Q4 is gonna be a similar decline in NRR to what Q3 was." And just circling back to the gross retention point, you know, when I look back, it's within 2%-3% of what it's always historically been. So it's not that the fact that customers are leaving us. In fact, if anything, when we looked at this last quarter, we looked at our several largest contracts, let's say, like, 8 or 9 of the top ones, they were all buying more with us. They are getting really excited about the fact that we have security, as John had mentioned earlier, that we are seeing that success with Business Plan, and that is what's starting to stabilize those numbers. Got it. That's very helpful color for guys who kind of track these metrics. You gave a hint on the Q3 earnings call that ARR growth should be about 2 points lower than total revenue growth for the year. In a normal year, what should be the correlation between ARR growth and total revenue growth? Assuming we enter a new cycle where we're kind of in a re-acceleration phase on those metrics. Yeah, it's interesting. We IPO'd in 2020, so I like the normal part of the question. But the way I think about it is this: when the macro is improving, our ARR growth should outpace our revenue growth. Remember, we're a 97% revenue or a recurring revenue business, so there is a really strong correlation there. But in a declining environment, it would be the opposite, right? But in a steady environment, I think those should be very similar over time. Got it. We've gotten a few questions from the audience here. One of them's around the Rule of 40, so I'll, I'll ask this one, Ian. You know, growth plus profitability, you know, it's not at the Rule of 40 here today. How do you think about kind of prioritizing getting to that metric? Yeah. Um- Yeah, so we talked about the growth algorithm and the things that are, you know, impacting that, right? The fact that the economy is impacting customer hiring, and that's muted some of our growth. So that means let's focus on what we can focus on, and so we do focus on cross-sell. We've been investing there. We've become a much stronger security company. And then, you know, we've talked about we've improved margins this year, right? We've improved them since last year, you know, based on the midpoint of our guidance. I think it was, like, 250 basis points from last year. And I've said publicly, you know, in Q3, that we expect to continue to improve margins within 2024. We do have a lot of pieces of the puzzle moving there. For example, we've talked about we are putting in things that will make us more efficient, such as, we're putting in a partner portal in 2024, right? So before, you know, it'd be a little bit of manual work to really have the partners kind of quote on their own. We are doing some things where it's easier for customers to purchase with us, and those things are gonna bode well and help us, you know, enhance our profitability and enhance our efficiency. I think, you know, as we... You know, we have a security overlay. That's not a forever thing. We'll absorb that over time. We're putting in some back office functionality, and, you know, some of that will help us automate some of our back office. I think those things bode well. We've always said that sales and marketing and G&A are not in the zip codes where we want them to be, and those are areas we're very keenly focused on to make them more scalable, more efficient, which should bode well for profitability in future years. Got it. That's very helpful. Last question from me, and then there's maybe one or two more from the audience. Profitability and cash flow, obviously, you know, you touched on this just a little bit, but consensus free cash flow for 2023 right now implies a margin of about 12%. You know, it seems you have a very high gross margin. It seems like there should be upside for that. I guess the question is, and this is kind of a key question a lot of investors have been asking, is when the ARR growth reaccelerates, can you also have reaccelerating margin growth in conjunction with that, implying that sales productivity should kind of improve off of lower levels here, and then that creates some nice leverage to free cash flow to the business? Is that the right way we should think about it, or when business does re-accelerate, do you need to hire more people in sales and marketing? Yeah, no, there is some demonstrated capacity there. So I just talked about kind of all these other areas that will help productivity and help margin profitability, but that will help as well, right? If you think about what's like the toughest sell to go get, it's a cross-sell, right? It's selling in a new product into a customer versus the... You know, think about a CAC, right? The easiest or cheapest CAC would be when you go in and do an upsell, and there is so there's definitely opportunity for that to be on top of all those things I talked about to help us improve margin as the economy comes back and customers continue to hire. Got it. I have a question on M&A strategy here. Couple items. Do you feel that valuations have become more reasonable? And then, are you looking to do transformative acquisitions or more smaller tuck-in acquisitions? I think I know the answer to that, but I'll let you expound on that. Yeah, let me- I'll start off, Ian, then you can add some color to it. I mean, you know, we continue to be acquisitive with respect to functionality, and we talk to our customers all the time. And to the extent that there's something that we could get faster to market, that we can buy functionality-wise versus build it ourselves, we'll certainly entertain that. I would... But that's not, we're not leaning toward a transformational acquisition at this point. We're just looking for features and functionality. Tech and talent really is what we're looking at, and we're being very judicious about that. You know, valuations, have they come back into the realm of reality? I think for the buyers, it has. I don't know that for the sellers it has yet. So I think there's a bit of a disconnect there, but we'll, you know, people will sort through that, and that'll normalize, as it always has in the past. We're just, I think we're a little earlier in that phase. So, you know, we're gonna continue to look for tech and talent, things that are gonna continue to enhance our product offering as it's specific to Apple and things that our customers are asking for. Got it. All right, well, with that, I think we can wrap this up, and I really wanna thank John and Ian for their time today and sharing the Jamf message. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thanks, Josh. Thanks, everyone.