Jennifer runs IR, and David is the relatively new CFO. We're going to go over David's background a little bit because you're new, and people appreciate it. Great. Jamf is a $2 billion market cap, $650 million in ARR. It's funny how this company's gotten bigger, right? That's the goal, right? Trades at only three times revenue, 19 times free cash flow. It's not expensive. I'll bet you guys can get the free cash flow up too. In terms of David's background, University of Illinois, then University of Chicago for his MBA. Was there a gap in between there, or did you go straight through? No, there was a gap. I worked in public accounting. OK, so that's where the part, so four years, I guess, in public accounting. My favorite part, though, I was looking at his LinkedIn. He was an air traffic controller. That's right. Right? 1989. Apparently Musk is trying to get people like you to come work for him. That's right. I don't think he wants to. Did you get a call? Yeah, no. I think I would be the last one to get the call. Why did you only do it for one year? I was in the Air Force. Oh, you were in the Air Force? I was in the Air Force, yeah. OK. Yeah. Trying to realize that part. How long were you in the Air Force for? More than a year? Two years. Two years. In the first Bush there, I got into the Air Force. I graduated college. I couldn't afford college. I graduated high school, couldn't afford college. The only way to get college paid for was to join the military. I joined the military. Yeah. Once I got there, it was kind of it's a great program, but they had an early they were doing layoffs, basically, back with George Bush I. You really? I applied to get out because I got accepted to school, and they let me out. I went to. Did it pay for school? Yeah. Illinois Veterans Grant paid for 100% of my undergrad. I got to talk to my kids about that. Definitely return. That's great. You were, I saw you were at H&Q briefly here in San Francisco. Yeah, yeah. I graduated from. That was an iconic firm. In 1999 and went to work with Jim Pickerell. I saw Chris Galvin here. Yeah. Who was the other software guy? He covered. Oh, was he? Yeah, he covered BMC and those others, the mainframe. You guys were doing software in 2001. Yeah. I went back and I looked at a list of the top 20 software companies from 1999. Guess what percentage of them made it? I think it's actually really relevant. 10%. It's at 40, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. 60% don't make it. Oh, yeah. I think it's super relevant for the environment we're in today with AI. OK, and then Piper, then you were my client for a decade at Thrivent. That's right. For kind of interesting buysiders out there, in case you ever want to become a CFO, talk to David. And then you had four years at nCino. Yep. Now we're up to today. OK, so you were announced as the new CFO in September. You started at the end of October. End of October. How's it going so far? I think it's great. OK. I think I started the week of the board meeting. I did the board meeting earnings. I was sitting a fly on the wall. We did a bunch of marketing, did the plan, the final plan approval meeting with the board, and then earnings last week. I mean, it's great. It is a, you know, what I was looking for is a market-leading company, right? They lead in management. They've got a building business in security, Apple ecosystem. It's global in nature and sells into any vertical. It's not vertical specific. To me, it was great. On top of it, the valuation is super low. Yeah. We're expanding margins. We continue to grow. Free cash flow margins are increasing. I think it's a great opportunity. Yeah. You can't kill anybody as CFO, unlike in air traffic control, right? You know, he's not in here, but our security software analyst used to be a military intelligence analyst with the Navy and deployed with, I think, SEAL Team One, right? Yeah. When we described the job, when I described the job to him, I'm like, what do you think? He goes, yeah, that actually sounds a lot like what I used to do, except if I get it wrong, nobody dies. I go, no, no, you get it wrong, nobody dies. That's a lot of money. Yeah. It is interesting to me that you view the low valuation as a positive when you describe your next opportunity. I mean, we can all relate to that. Was that really a factor as you were? I mean, that wasn't a major factor in it, but it made it more interesting, I tell you. Like, you know, in 2021, nCino went public. It priced at $31. The first day was $91. Yeah. Twenty-some times revenues. It's kind of like you look at the valuation, and where's it going to go from here? Yeah, it's hard. I mean, really, any company that went public in that time frame, it was crazy multiples. It's kind of like you've got to grow into your multiple, and then over time, it kind of comes down. To me, coming in at the bottom of something, I think is exciting because I think people are skeptical. This is a real business. We have real customers. We have blue-chip customer base. We have a global presence. It's exciting to get to know the company and the team. I've been to London, Amsterdam. I'll be going to APAC to visit the team in Tokyo and Korea and Australia. All the while, we're going to be meeting with investors around the world to spread the story. Yeah. It's kind of funny. This is what happens when you take an investor and you put them in a CFO, right? Yeah. You can't really get the investor out of you. OK, so you say people are skeptical. You can do my job for me. Why are people skeptical? I think it's only natural because the growth has decelerated over the last couple of years, right? The macro has not been a friend of ours of late. ARR continues to decline. I think your notes said 13 quarters in a row, so thank you for keeping count. I think what we've seen is a lot of activity as money was flowing. A lot of customers were kind of pre-buying or adding to what their thoughts were in terms of what devices they need to manage as headcount growth continued. As layoffs started in 2022, that's only continued. I think we saw a lot of downsells initially. I think we continue to see a lower level of downsells. What we're seeing is kind of a lack of upsell, meaning there's not a lot of people adding to the headcount or pre-anticipating headcount adds as they look out over the next time frame. I think there's a lot of people ask about shelfware. How much shelfware is there? I don't think there is any. I think the good news is if we do see a change in the hiring environment as customers start adding heads, we're going to have to come to this and add more heads. Yeah. All right, cool. I mean, you're kind of hanging out, but let me ask you directly. How's business? What would you say? We had the quarter report last week. Yeah. We had a very good Q4 from a bookings perspective. As you prepare for earnings and guidance, I think you look at the history. You look at what the Salesforce is telling you. We did all the work around budgeting and what we expect customers to spend in the coming year. January had to start seeing some additional layoffs, right? Meta, there was a bunch of high-profile layoffs. It is kind of like, is this kind of more of what we are going to see as we saw in the past? I think that kind of dampened the excitement from what we saw in Q4 because what we saw in Q4 was a balanced quarter between verticals. The U.S. did well. Europe was kind of in line. APAC did really well. When you look at that, you say, you know, and deals were easier to close. Oh, were they? Yeah, in Q4. How do you measure that? I think what I always look for is how does the commit change as you move through the quarter? Mm-hmm. The commit change. Tell people, for anybody who doesn't know, tell people what the commit is. Oh, so when yeah, so sales has a number if they have a number of one. You review this weekly as you come to every single week, we review it month and then quarter. As the quarter comes in, there are multiple reviews heading into the end of the quarter. Sales teams will say, all right, I was at one. I think you do one, two. Let me go the other way and say, I was at one. I can do 0.8 now. They can walk in and say, things are looking a little better. There is this deal that was sitting there. We heard a couple of cases where there were a couple of deals that were outstanding for a couple of years that closed. There was a good amount of budget. I think it was just budget flush that came through, which was really good. You see that, and it's a balanced performance across all verticals in pretty much all regions. That makes you feel a little better. As we were building the plan for this current year in 2025, what we saw was kind of a similar budget expectation from customers when we did the checks with the sales force. It kind of sounded like it was going to be a little more of the same. You saw Q4, you're like, ooh. You look at January and some of the layoffs, you're like, all right, maybe it's still kind of a similar environment. We will see how Q1 ends up. Yeah. How do you, when you're setting guidance, how do you decide how much to handicap it? If it was me, with no experience of this role, I'd be like, well, there's more layoffs. Let's take 200 basis points off the growth rate. I mean, how do you do it? I'm sure it's more scientific than that. Yeah, I think it's the achievable model. I think what we've done in the past, I think you look at run rate of the business, kind of the pipeline, what salespeople are saying, and then you project that out. Yeah. I think if anticipating, you know, at nCino, it was, I think, 11, 12 quarters of beaten raise. This team has done a nice job entering into a year and giving numbers that are the beaten raise. I think the achievable model is important as you talk to investors and actually set expectations for the year. Yeah. OK, let's talk about the three-year plan. Because we have Jennifer here, I'm going to let her tell the background of the three-year plan. Then you can talk about what happened when you joined and you looked at it. Yep. OK, so Jennifer. There is no three-year plan anymore. The three-year plan is gone. Yeah. Historical. What was the history of the three-year plan, which I got so excited about? I was so excited about this three-year plan. Because you'd never see him. I guess. I just thought it was great. Yeah. What was the history, Jennifer? The history was, at that point in time, the only model beyond a yearly guidance was the IPO model. The business, as you know, has grown significantly since then. We were somewhere in the range of $200 million of ARR when we IPO'd. The business has grown significantly. It's changed, right? We basically created a security business at that time. We were getting a lot of questions about what does this business look like in this environment and now that you have a multifaceted, more than a single product company. That was really the driver behind that. We had seen, certainly, that upsell component that David mentioned really start to get pressured and wanting to give the street an understanding of. No, no, we're not getting to that part yet. Let's talk about what the three-year plan was. It was for last year, this year, and next year, right? Correct. 24, 25, 26. It basically said ARR would be after Miami. After it was a, we called it a de-risk 2024. Yeah. Called for re-acceleration. What were the numbers? In 2025 and 2026. You're going to. Oh, you know my math. That's my brain. You know me. On the growth side, really, I believe 14% and 16%. 2025 was 14% ARR growth, and 2026 was 16% ARR growth. Correct. OK. Now we just guided to 2025, and we guided to? 8% at the midpoint. OK. All right, so there's our setup. So prior CFO thought they were going to do 14% growth this year. You come into year at 8%. Why? It's not my number. It's not your number. No, it's not. Totally fair. You have the job now. No, yeah. I think the first thing is we did the ARR adjustment of $5 million. So it's $5 million off because of the adjustment we made. Yeah, we'll talk about that. We did a systems upgrade, back office, front office, so Salesforce and Oracle. Through the process, we have 76,000 customers. You validate that. You put it in Salesforce. Flows properly into Oracle in the revenue module. We have a system outside of Salesforce, data warehouse, that actually calculates all the non-GAAP numbers, so in our customer account device and ARR too. What we found is that within the system, there were some credit memos that should have reversed out some of the ARR that went through Oracle properly that were not. We had to remove that. We found all those errors. Some of this was accumulated over time. We wanted to figure out, OK, this is a Q3, Q2, Q1, and like. We could not properly place that with confidence. We pushed all in Q3. It was adjustment. I would say the other piece is really around macro. I think there was. The ARR adjustment was $5 million? $5 million. Call it roughly 1%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. OK, 1%. 1% is the reclassification. Yeah. The balance, I believe, is around the macro environment. I think there was some expectation that we'd see some tailwinds throughout the year entering into here. We did exit 2024 with 9.8% ARR growth, which to me is like the starting point. You layer in your new bookings into that and upsells from renewals to get to a higher number. It has, to my opinion, it has to be around there was an expectation on the macro improvement. OK. All right, so. November, December, January. Four months, right? What has been better than you expected? What has turned out maybe a little more challenging? Yeah, I think in getting to know the company and the team, I think you look at the customer base. We have a blue-chip customer base in all verticals. We talked about three transportation deals that we closed in Q4. We have a very strong presence in financial services. The product, I think the product is quite strong. Yeah. You sit there, and you're always worried, is this a sales-heavy product? Is it a product-leading? I think we have a nice balance between the two. The global reach, I think we actually have a very good brand internationally too. We do a lot of business. I was in London and Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago. We have a very good brand internationally. I think the challenging side would be the system upgrade. I knew it was going to happen. There was no changing it. This was in the works for a couple of years. With anything, we have 76,500 customers. This is a huge undertaking on the front and the back office. The teams did an incredible job of getting all the data in. You can't test every single scenario, right, as you go in life. I've done other implementations. They're all really tough. The teams do a very, they do a ton of work around this on top of their day jobs. Now it's in, I'd say we're tweaking around the edges, kind of fixing things. We hired another consulting firm to come and help on the ticket side. I feel like we're in a really good position. In the long run, this positions us very well for the future. It's Oracle Fusion, Salesforce. We won't have to worry about doing another system upgrade, hopefully forever, although something new. What were you using before? Intacct. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. We probably were 3x the size of what we should have. Yeah, you guys are really big for Intacct. Yeah. There was a lot of manual stuff. I think when you move to a new system and it's. Are you using Intacct for the CRM as well? No, Salesforce. You stayed on Salesforce. Yeah, we deployed a new version of Salesforce. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Anytime you move to a new system, I think the team, there's some change management involved, where I used to be able to do this in the old system. Now I have to go through the process in the new system, right? I'd say I think we're getting there. The new system allows us to bill in different currencies, which we weren't able to before. I think it makes us more competitive. We've set up a partner portal. We've seen a nice increase in partner registrations and deal registrations. They can go direct to that instead of talking to a salesperson. I think in the long run, the system will be incredibly helpful for us. We can get layers of detail that we couldn't have in the past. I think it allows us to become, finance to become a lot more strategic with the business and helping to optimize performance of the company as a whole. Yeah. All right, last one for me. Are you running this more to optimize cash flow at this point? Yeah, I think we are a company that prioritizes growth with the mindset of really being able to expand margins and return cash to the bottom line. That Rule of 40 is the North Star, exiting 2026 at Rule of 40. If there are areas where we can invest for growth, and I think we are going to be very disciplined in how we invest for growth, we will make that investment. At the same time, we have to show continued margin expansion opportunities as we move out towards the future. Your operating margin this last quarter is 18%, and growth was 8%, right? So you're at 24%. Is that how you do it? Yeah, this year we're at 21% target and 8%. Oh, the guidance is basically 21%. Yeah. You're getting 21% to 40% is a long way. How are you going to get from 21% to 40%? 21% + 8%, so 29%. Oh, the 29%. It is 11 points of difference. Just one note, we do think about it on an unlevered free cash flow basis versus a. Yeah, versus the operating margin. Yeah. Where are you? This year it should approximate about the same. It should approximate the same. I just wanted to clarify. We talked about at least 75% growth in unlevered free cash flow this year. Right. OK, questions from our audience? Let's start in the back, and then we'll come to you next, Nick. Just on growth, you guys had your second largest acquisition, Identity Automation. Pretty multiple for that. I mean, kind of twice your own. In terms of capital allocation, how should we be thinking about your appetite for M&A, organic versus inorganic growth? How do you, if you're going to get to be a really rapported company, how are you going to do it, I guess? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question for them. Oh, yeah, yeah. The question is, you did an acquisition, second biggest one in the history. How do you look at capital allocation, make decisions, and how do you get to Rule of 40 in the long run? I think this is one of the bigger ones. We've not done one for a year and a half, I think it is now, something like that. I think we always look for technology purchases and/or we get feedback from customers as to what they would like to see. We got some feedback from customers that identity management is something important to them. We partnered with Identity Automation probably a couple of years now, right? We have overlapping customers. We know the company. We know the product. We know it works in the field. Is there ever when's the ideal time to do an acquisition? They come up, and there's times. This was a competitive deal. We felt it was the right thing to do at this time. It's accretive on the top and the bottom line, both on a trailing basis and as a forward basis. We look at what do you do with your capital. We talked to a lot of investors about buyback, M&A. This seemed like it was a very good solution for us because it truly helped our customers achieve what they need to achieve. It allows us to help expand our education business internationally too. We have 40,000 customers on the education side. This is applicable to every one of them across the world. The company currently, it's mainly U.S. based. I think they have a few customers in Norway. I think it gives us a really nice opportunity, not only on the education side. K- 12, they have some higher ed customers and then health care. I think in any company that has dynamic identity challenges, like you think about a school, right? The students in first grade that are for this teacher in this school district, they move through school all along. This product actually follows them, their identity, all the way through until they graduate out of the school. It could change by semester. It could change over the summer because they're in different schools. This is a fully automated tool that allows that student to access any of the applications that they can. It also is good for substitute teachers too. Like a substitute teacher comes in. They have a couple of health care examples too. You think about where we could take this in the long run on the commercial side: retail, transportation, temporary workers, shared devices. I think it really is a pretty powerful tool that we have some work to do, of course, to get it to there. I think it's a really interesting product that we will be able to offer to our customers. You paid $215 million for it. It closes at the end of next quarter. You haven't told us what it's going to do with the model yet. No, not yet. We signed yesterday. We anticipate it will close sometime in Q2. We would expect to give updated guidance, including the company, in our Q1 earnings call, which will be April, May timeframe. OK. Can you talk a little about the international opportunity? Are there any specific verticals you're targeting? Just kind of reading a little bit. Yeah, I think we focus on all verticals. We have a very good presence in Europe, all through Europe. APAC is building now too. We have office in Tokyo, Australia, Sydney, Australia, and Korea too. We've seen very good traction in APAC. That's been the highest growth region for us over the last couple of years, I think, right? We have a sales team there. We do utilize the channel internationally. About 80% of revenues are sourced through the channel. We recently hired a new channel lead about six months ago who was at Symantec and Adobe. He's done some very channel-driven companies. We are putting a bigger emphasis and trying to push more deals flowing through and being sourced from the channel now. We are going through and looking at marketing budgets and rebates and everything else. 50% of revenues are done through the channel right now. We want to get that number up as well. I think internationally, I think it's just a balanced approach by country that we're looking at right now and really leveraging that channel to get to the results that we need. Last one. One minute. Go ahead, Jake. Does hiring need to pick up in order for the business to accelerate to, I don't know, double digits? Because in a growth company, that's the number that you want to see. Is that a bar for that to happen? Yeah, so the question was, do we need hiring to return? Or how important is hiring in order to get to a higher growth number? I think hiring does help, especially on the Mac side, right? I think we do have the ability to sell our security products into existing customer base and also the mobile product. We saw a nice traction on the mobile side. I think hiring would be helpful, right? I think that just gives us tailwind. We strive to grow as fast as we can. I think last year, the average SaaS growth rate was, what, 12%, 13%, something like that. I do not know what the averages are this year. We would like to be at a higher growth rate than 8%, obviously. We are going to strive to do that. Awesome. All right, we need to stop there. Thank you guys so much for joining us. It's great to see you. Thank you, everybody.