Joining us here at the Fireside Chat at the Raymond James Tech and Consumer Conference here in New York. My name is Simon Leopold, Raymond James data infrastructure analyst, and I'm pleased to welcome with us from Juniper Networks, we have Ken Miller, company CFO, and also in the audience, we have Jess Lubert, who runs the investor relations team. I prepared an outline of questions for this, but I'll look to the audience if you guys have questions wave at me, and we've got a mic for the webcast. But I like to sort of make these sessions a little bit helpful to people who are new to the story and then drill into folks who want to get some of the colors. but at a high level, Juniper's evolved over the years, and I, I still get frustrated with investors thinking you're a telco-oriented company. So maybe talk a little bit about the evolution and how you think about the company from a vertical perspective today. Sounds good. Thanks, Simon. Before I get into it, I would say that we will likely be making some forward-looking comments today, so those comments do carry risks. So, please take a look at our SEC documents for a full listing of those risk factors. So, Juniper has transitioned a lot over the last several years. I would say really since Rami took over in kind of late 2014. The strategy was: how do we get off of this service provider, routing, cyclical, flattish business? How do we have more sustained revenue growth and more sustained operating margin expansion? It really was about transitioning to the enterprise. So it's been a focus for us for 5+ years coming up on 8+ years. And really, we started to see that accelerate in 2019 when we acquired a company called Mist. Mist has been really a game changer for us in the campus and branch side of the space, where we've seen significant growth. We've also really taking the differentiation not just the appliance, but how you run your network. We call it Experience-First Networking. So it's not about, does my widget push traffic, do I have the right features, do I have the right speeds and feeds? It's about, how do I run the network? How do I operate the network? How do I do it remotely from the cloud? How do I do it with AI built in, so it actually self-runs, kind of a self-driving network? So we've taken that differentiation, which Mist brought us, expanded it across the rest of our portfolio, and that's really how we differentiate today, and it's really been a game changer for us. We've seen significant growth in enterprise for many years. Enterprise last quarter was greater than half of our business. That's a milestone. You know, we used to be a predominantly service provider company, to your point, Simon. So we've seen that transition move forward and we still—what I think is exciting is it's a sustainable growth driver for us with a lot of runway left. I mean, we're still 3%-4% of a large $30 billion campus or branch market, then you layer on top data center, enterprise, and some security as well. It's a big market opportunity. We're relatively small, and we're taking share. So the sustainability of that growth, now that we're in the enterprise, I think is really gonna make Juniper different for the next 5 years than, say, we were 10 years ago. So you brought out this point about shifting from service provider focus to enterprise being the biggest. You didn't mention the cloud and hyperscalers. What's going on with that particular group? So cloud is another. I view cloud as another growth vertical. So enterprise is our biggest opportunity to grow just because of the market opportunity, the differentiation we have. Cloud is a growth driver for us, in my opinion, for the future because of the market. I mean, it's a robust market. These companies are succeeding, they're growing. AI's become the new next killer app, and we keeping making sure we participate there is something we're very focused on. So I would put that in that growth camp as well. So now if you take enterprise, 50%, let's say, as of last quarter, a little bit more, you take cloud, another 20% or so, that's over two-thirds of our business that's could grow and should grow. That leaves service provider, which is our kind of our legacy, roughly a third or less, 25% of our business, that's gonna be flattish. That still could grow. In certain years, we expect growth. We've had growth actually this year. We're up on the nine months, we're up 1% in service provider, but we don't want to rely on that vertical to be our growth engine. It's gonna have more cyclical cycles related to either 400 gig or a 100 gig upgrades or five-year rollouts, things like that. So it's gonna be more cyclical. One thing I would note on service provider, though, is we do have a Metro opportunity, which should be more sustained growth. So think of service provider as our, our stable, modest growth opportunity. Cloud is our next biggest opportunity, that's what you asked about, for more sustained growth, and then enterprise being our fastest-growing vertical. And then the other, I guess, form of disclosure you provide is your, your segment, your business segments. Yeah. So, similar question, where the company is often thought about as sort of the router company? Yeah. That's sort of the origination, but now there are really three main segments. Can you talk a little bit about some more dynamics of what the segments are and what's happening to each? Yeah. So we divide up the business, as, as you mentioned, by vertical, then by customer solution. So the customer solution that's had the most growth of recent years, and I expect to continue to lead the way in growth, is what we call AI-Driven Enterprise, which is really campus and branch networking. This includes wireless or Wi-Fi, switching campus switching, as well as SD-WAN solutions and some security solutions that you would sell to an enterprise. And that's really where Mist is our differentiation, and that's that's been growing extremely fast. Last quarter, it grew over 40% year-on-year, taking significant market share. our our solution is a cloud-connected, AI-driven solution. That's what differentiates us from the likes of the Cisco and the others in, in the market, where we have a competitive advantage. and you don't need to take my word for it, just look at the Gartner Magic Quadrant, where we're the furthest to the right and the furthest up and a relatively low market share position. So that's our biggest growth driver. Then the next growth driver would be data center, right? So our data center business is the second solution. This is really data center switching, as well as some security firewall business that goes into our Cloud-Ready Data Center, we call it. That business, we've seen growth in the enterprise. We've had some choppiness in the cloud as they use some of that solution for their WAN network. They use it as a routing alternative. So you've seen a little bit of choppiness if you take the aggregate business, but if you just focus on the intra data center part of that business, which is mostly enterprise and kind of cloud majors for us, that's been growing. Then the third business we call Automated WAN, which is routing. That's our routing business. If you isolate routing between service provider and cloud, you'll see different, different situations. So the service provider routing is where I think the market is flattish, right? With the one exception of Metro, where we are investing and growing. But core and edge routing for service provider is not a growth market. So the alternative to that with routing would be our cloud business, where we do think we can grow. So clouds are also... the large cloud builders are also building large, routing networks. Now, there's this phenomenon happening across the entire sector around sort of the post-pandemic behavior, where operators maybe built up some inventory, OEMs like yourselves have built up backlog because you had component shortages, and so now you have higher backlog. Where are you in that cycle, and how do you see it winding down? Yeah, it's a great question. It has been something that's completely distorted some of the results and some of the numbers out there. So from a lead time perspective, which kind of caused this whole havoc, we're back to normal, right? So we're getting lead times in from our suppliers at similar rates than we did pre kind of supply chain shortage. We're providing products to our customers on the lead times that we typically did prior to all this volatility. From a backlog perspective, our backlog, we're definitely seeing that come down throughout this year pretty aggressively. Actually, I would say sooner than I expected, because the inventory from a lead time perspective, solved quicker than I expected. Our lead times have been normal for a couple of quarters now, and they remain normal going forward. So when lead times go from 12 months, which is what they were in 2021, 2022, down to 30 days, which is what they are today, that's gonna impact bookings patterns, and that's gonna impact backlog. Backlog's been coming down. I still expect to exit this year with an elevated backlog level beyond normal. This year being 2023? This year being 2023. I think it'll fully normalize in the first half of next year. So by the end of Q2, let's say, I think our backlog will be fully normalized. It will no longer have an elevated level. From a customer perspective, so the third category would be their own inventory. So we've been deploying a lot of previously placed orders, bleeding our backlog. Now, it's at the customer site, and then they do their own rollouts. So there are customers that probably have more inventory than they need for the next few months as they continue to roll that out. So we're seeing some digestion and consumption of our backlog and some digestion and consumption of their own inventory as they roll out. So the question is: when does it revert back to growth? From a cloud and SP perspective, we are confident next year will be a growth year from a bookings perspective. But the timing and the degree of that growth is a little bit too early to call, to be honest. Could it be Q1? Could be. Could it be Q2? Possibly. What about Q3? Almost assuredly, it's gonna start to grow at some point next year, and then the impact to revenue is also something that's a bit too early to call. I wanna sort of follow that up with maybe a discussion around what's happening in margin, in that we've seen a number of moving parts coming to mind, price increases that you and others have made, the elimination of some of those extra fees, broker fees, things like that. So margins have actually been improving for some companies. Your margins tend to be a bit lower than peers on comparable products, and I want to explore that if we can get a better sense of what you see happening in your margins. Yeah, so I definitely think our margins, they've grown this year, and I expect them to grow next year. Gross margin, there's really a few puts and takes. One of the big ones that you mentioned, Simon, was these transitory costs, these excessive fees that we've been paying in 2021 and 2022 because of the supply chain crunch. We're starting to see those fees reduce this year, but we still are carrying some of those, and those should further reduce next year. And this year, some of those fee reductions were offset with increases in kind of inventory carrying charge. To your point, inventory is starting to stockpile a bit throughout up and down the ecosystem, so there is a cost of that. So those should also ease going forward. So I expect some of those transitory, unusual costs to continue to go down over time, which will help gross margin. The other factor is really mix, and there's a lot of different mix components, but the positive mix components for us are gonna be software as compared to hardware, and we're continuing to grow our software business faster than the rest of our business. Last quarter, software grew 27% on year-on-year, much faster than the regular product revenue. So we're seeing a- It's like teens as a% of revenue, low teens? It's close to 20%. Is it? Okay, it? Okay, great. 20% of our total revenue, and it, it'd be a bigger percentage if you just isolate product revenue, right? So our software business is, I would say, the second transformation we've made that we don't get a lot of credit for. First one being going to enterprise, second one being going to software. And it's a lot of it know subscription and, and, and perpetual on-box software, but a lot of it is also ratably recognized SaaS software. You know, we now- you know, last quarter, we had $357 million of ARR, and this is true ARR, recurring revenue from the software side. So we're building that business as well. So software momentum is gonna continue, I believe, and it will help margin longer term as well, as well as short term. And then the other mix we had very strong services results last quarter, both revenue growth and margin. I expect services to grow faster than product next year, which would allow for more margin expansion on that mix. The negative headwind that has been existing for several years and will continue to exist is if you isolate the appliances, the hardware only. We make more margin on the higher performance core router, as an example, versus a lower-end switch that you might sell, or an access point, or a Wi-Fi solution, that you might sell into the enterprise. So that's a natural headwind, 'cause we're growing that piece of our business faster, but that gets offset with all the software we attach, all the SaaS software we attach into that portfolio. That's kind of how I see margin going forward. So I wanna come to drill down on the enterprise opportunity, particularly in the campus, in that on your last earnings call, I think you came across pretty upbeat, expecting good growth. Subsequently, we've heard from some of your competitors in that space who have downticked, expecting that the campus market declines in 2024. How are you thinking about your ability to outperform that overall market and still grow when others are shrinking? Yeah, we are definitely in take share mode. I mean, I think there's no doubt about that, and I feel we've been taking share and we'll continue to take share, largely on the strength of our solution. Just being a better, differentiated, cloud-delivered, AI-driven solution. Our competitors say similar things, but when we do a bake-off, we win 90% of the time. We just have a better solution. We just need more at-bats, and that's another reason why I'm confident in our ability to grow, is we're getting more at-bats. We're adding coverage into both our sales organization as well as our channel organization. So when you're 3%-4% of the market, you have a better widget, it's really about getting it out there and getting the opportunity to prove that greatness. When we get a pilot or a proof of concept, that's when we win, so getting more at-bats is important. The other thing I think is important to mention is, I talk a lot about cloud-delivered. Our solution, our Mist-driven solution, is entirely cloud-delivered. It's cloud-connected, cloud-managed, with AI operations that really reduce trouble tickets, solve network problems before anybody even knows you had a problem, type of a scenario. Our competition has a large on-prem legacy networking business, and they have their cloud-driven, cloud-connected business, Meraki. Let's talk about Cisco. let's that's the one you're talking about that had the call. I didn't say. They've been down. Their bookings has been down double digits for 6 quarters. We expect to grow bookings this year, 2023. They're down double digits this year. So we are winning in the market. Some of that is because we play in the growth part of the market. The cloud-connected piece of campus and branch is expected to grow, has been growing faster than the non-cloud-connected. Next year, it's expected to also grow. The overall market is expected to go down, largely because of that on-prem legacy business, which is really not where Juniper plays. Right. And then in terms of what, what's going on in the enterprise business, what's the rough split of how much of your business is campus versus how much is enterprise data center? Yeah, rough split is our campus business is approximately half or just over half of our overall enterprise business. And the other routing and kind of data center roughly splits 20%-25% each between those two categories. So one of the things I'm wondering about is just sort of the pull-through opportunity. Yes. So you've had this footprint in one side. Let's say you've been selling to somebody's data center. How often does that pull through the campus and vice versa? Is there real sales synergies, channel synergies for those? Yeah, so there definitely are commercial synergies today, like kind of solution synergies, but what I'm really excited about is taking some of the more technical synergies across those two boundaries. So we started with our campus and branch with Mist, and it's really about the full stack the cloud-delivered automation with Mist provides end-to-end. On the data center side, we have a different technology called Apstra, which really is trying to—it's doing the same thing Mist does, but it's doing it in a little different way. It's an on-prem, intent-based automation tool for your data center to help you run, configure, set up your data center smoother and easier. The next evolution of Juniper is really taking the Mist Day 2 operations, which is ongoing operations, into the data center. So kind of integrating Apstra and Mist in the data center side. That will complete the full technical synergies that I think are gonna be very robust for us and allow us to you know, easier cross-sell. Now, the customer that has Mist, maybe for their wireless and their wired and SD-WAN solution, with a click of a button, they can now manage their data center the same way they've been managing the rest of their footprint. So that's more, really more of an opportunity for us and something I'm very excited about. And then if you think about some of the other sort of cloud-oriented competitors, so not the incumbent kind of dinosaur products, now superficially, their presentations sound a lot like yours. Yes. I know you've given us the metric of you win 90% of the deals you go for. What are the differences? Yeah. Two major differences really that I'll talk about. First one is we are truly cloud architected from the back end, right? We have a microservices-based architecture. A lot of folks confuse cloud-delivered with on-/off-prem managed, right? But ours is truly cloud architected, public cloud back end, which is infinite scale, allows us to get much more data, and I'll get into that in a second. Whereas historically, what folks meant by cloud-delivered is a monolithic server stack that was off-site dedicated to manage your on-prem network. Ours is truly cloud architected. That allows us to deliver the microservices-based architecture, deliver features and functions every Thursday, right? We have a true SaaS model, where it's constantly upgrading, whereas the competition upgrades their software once or twice a year. It's a full-on software code. They have to worry about breaking your network, whereas we're more confident in our, in our SaaS solution. So there's a differentiation on the cloud architecture. The other one... And for the record, that's not that we were particularly smarter. This is what if Mist were here, if Sujai were here, who founded Mist, he would say, "We weren't better. We just came later."... when the others came, they did what they could when they built their, their system back in 2008, 2009. Mist came along 2014, '15, when the cloud architecture was dramatically different, and that's a big advantage for us. The other thing is, because we have better data, we're able to track... What Mist does is it tracks data not at the access point level. It doesn't just track if that device is on, it tracks all the connected devices to that access point and what that experience is. That's, again, due to the scale that we have. And with better data, better AI operations. So we have an AI engine that's able to solve more problems. We now integrate applications, like Mist and Teams are good examples, where we could diagnose not just why you're having an issue. It might be that- it might be your computer, it might be your access point, it might be the switch or the router upstream, it might be your application, it might be Teams or Zoom. This is the data that we capture that no one else does that allows us to really differentiate and drive that network. So it really is a differentiated solution. Now, others say it. If you look at the marketing, they're gonna sound very similar. But if you double-click, what data are they capturing? Is it device or at the access point level? How often do they upgrade their software? Is it truly microservices-based? That's where the differentiation really stands out. So I'm gonna pivot to AI, and I, I mean different AI. So not the AI that's incorporated in Mist, but AI like ChatGPT- Sure ... generative AI. And I guess it does feel to us that your networking competitors have been much more vocal about AI opportunities in these major data centers, these major builds. Yeah. We're generally talking about routers and switches. Is there something different about Juniper that it's less of a story, or maybe you've got opportunities you want to tell us about? Yeah, so you're talking about the AI data center cluster, right? Yep. And the opportunity there. so we view this as a big opportunity, right? As you know, most of the connectivity today is in InfiniBand, right? It's really kind of a one-stop shop, with NVIDIA providing the GPUs as the full cluster, including InfiniBand, and I believe, and I think the industry believes, that that will transition to Ethernet over time. Do we know when? What's- You know, I mean, the best... We all look at the same analysis reports. By 2027, 2028, they're talking about a $5 billion market, maybe $5-$8 billion market. Still some InfiniBand there, but the majority becomes Ethernet, and that, you know- Yeah ... call it that 5-year period, 3-to-5-year period, it transitions. So Juniper will be ready, right? I mean, we're having conversations today with customers about how do we get into their phase 2 build-outs. Maybe they're they're not gonna wait. They want to go quickly, so they're probably full stop InfiniBand NVIDIA stacks today with InfiniBand. But they want to figure out how to get Ethernet, and they're working with us on how to do that. it's we believe it's very technically feasible. In fact, we've proven it. So not all data centers are, you know... They're not a one-size-fits-all. You mentioned ChatGPT, that's obviously an example of a massive data GPU cluster. There are enterprises today building their own learning and inference models for their own more purpose-built applications that don't have the same size and scale, and we have customers today that use our products, Ethernet-based products, in those types of use cases. So we're proving it out, and over time, I think we'll continue to prove it out. We'll get bigger and bigger use cases and ultimately really challenge InfiniBand as the incumbency from a technology perspective. Juniper is playing. We aren't maybe being as bold in some of our commitments, but we are absolutely being aggressive internally. I would say there's two really major investment areas within our R&D organization. This is one of them, making sure that we're ready to capture our fair share, if not more, of the AI cluster opportunity. The other would be the AIO ps layer with Mist and Apstra, like, continue to keep our differentiation there. I presume Juniper is participating in the Ultra Ethernet Consortium. Yes, we are. In all the industry bodies, and- Absolutely. Moving forward. Absolutely. We're having customer conversations all the time. It's, it's not atypical for a customer, again, to say, "hey I'm, I'm pretty sure your solution will work, but I, I don't want to take that chance. I need to go fast. I'm gonna go phase one, I'm gonna go InfiniBand. But how do we make sure I choose you for phase two? Let's work together on, on Junos. What features do I need?" These are about congestion features, these are about the size of packet and making it lossless. All things that we know we can do, working with the customer on doing those as we speak. Do you have any reference projects today in terms of deployment in an AI cluster? We don't have any public named references. We have said on the call, we already have some wins. Okay ... in some of the enterprise side of AI. This is back, back office GPU connectivity. I'm not talking about front office wins, where we have more of them. But in the back office real GPU clusters, we have some wins today. Then one of the other topics, I know in the beginning you talked about, particularly with the cloud, they're absorbing some capacity of what you've shipped them as the supply chain ease. But I guess there's been this question of, are these AI initiatives pulling funding away from other programs? So I'm just wondering, from your perspective, is your business being hurt because AI, and maybe money for the GPUs, is flowing away from your share of the wallet? I think the answer is modestly, right? It's hard to measure precisely. I do think there's been an impact. I think the vast majority of our cloud business is this digestion, this pre-ordering, early ordering, perhaps over-ordering, and now they're, they're digesting that as they go. But I do believe some have probably shifted some priorities within their organization, and everyone is prioritizing AI first. But I caution you, I wouldn't over-rotate on that, because these, these customers can do more than one thing at once, right? They're building out many networks at the same time, not just AI clusters. They're still needing to build out their core networks. As their business is growing, they're gonna have to continue to, to support that. So this isn't an either/or scenario, but has there been some shift of focus? I think the answer is probably, and I'm sure it has some impact on our numbers. I think what we've talked about in the past, I want to see if it's true and if it could change, is your role with the biggest hyperscalers was largely routing in the wide area network, not so much inside the data center, whereas the group that you refer to as cloud majors- Yes. -which, for purpose of illustration, would be an organization like an IBM- Mm, yes. smaller than Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook. Yes. There, you've had switching success. Correct. Do you see your ability to basically win more switching with hyperscaler or more WAN with the tier two cloud majors? Yeah. So I do feel that the footprint we carry in the hyperscale, which is largely WAN, and in some cases, DCI layers, not the data center, to your point, where two of them use white box and the other two use Arista, is gonna remain, right? The footprint we have there will just going through this digestion, it'll return to growth as they go through their inventory levels, and we'll you know, we haven't lost share there. The opportunity to break into those big four, the next opportunity might be AI clusters, where there's going to be a you know, more even playing field. The incumbency doesn't exist. So we are gonna you know, take a look at that. It's not our number one strategy. Our number one strategy for data center cloud are those cloud majors. There are some large cloud builders, customer number 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 are pretty large, and we have been taking some share there, as well as the enterprise. It's not AI is not just gonna be a cloud phenomenon. There are enterprises that are building their own AI, don't want to have their data in the cloud. So we believe the data center opportunity is much beyond just the top 2 or top 4, and that's where we've seen success, and I think we'll continue to see success. So I know at the beginning of our conversation, you talked about the service providers being kind of slow growth, so I'm not trying to get you to flip on that statement. But I want to come back to, about, I think it was a year ago, Verizon announced selection of Juniper to upgrade their core network. And I'm intrigued because the prior award was 2011, so- Yes. 12, 13 years to come around to a refresh. But where the question's really going is, we've all, I think, struggled with this idea that, well, traffic keeps growing people are doing more and more with networks, and we've seen the price compression on cost per bit, so that's part of the reason it doesn't grow. But I felt like the Verizon deal was maybe signaling an inflection, and you've sort of said, "Don't get carried away." Which I tend to do. But why is it the case that we're not seeing it? 'Cause so often, Verizon's really been a leading indicator for other service providers. Is it possible or likely that 2 and 3 years from now, we do see kind of a chain reaction of pent-up need to upgrade? Absolutely. Anything, anything is possible. I feel one thing that's interesting. There's been some weakness in the ecosystem on service provider pretty significantly over the last few, few months. We have not seen that weakness in the tier ones to the degree others have. and I'm not gonna name customers, but you have, and that could be one reason why. So we are seeing some good traction with some of our larger tier one customers. For us, the weakness that we've seen as service provider of recent times has been more on the larger, sorry, the smaller tier two, tier three, some of our geographic areas where I think they're just their business models have always been under pressure, where you're right, traffic is growing, but revenue is not, right? And so how do they try to how do they survive in that environment? It's been a challenge for all of them, tier ones, as well as tier twos and tier threes. I think there's added pressure now with the interest rates. So the cost of CapEx is just much higher. The cost of capital is much higher, so I think that's put more pressure. But we've seen some reasonable differentiation between our mix, where our tier ones have, in the U.S. in particular, held up. And so is that gonna be the leading indicator of the rest of the world? That would be a great scenario. I do think we have an ability to at least hold, if not take share, with our products. We obviously have a great 400 gig, we're thinking about 800 gig, but I just don't wanna get too excited about the long-term growth for that, that vertical. I just feel that vertical is a muted growth vertical. It could grow modestly, but it's not gonna be our growth driver compared to the other parts of our business. How are you thinking about opportunities for Huawei displacement? Huawei, China - private Chinese company- Yeah ... landed a lot of business outside the U.S., particularly in Europe. Much of the focus has been displacement in wireless networks, but they have sold lots of routers in Europe. Yeah. How do you think about that in your, your sort of forecasting model? Yeah, I do think it's a net positive, for sure, right? It has been for the last couple of years. Typically, those show up in RFPs and in refreshes. We're not gonna... Our customers have a hard time ripping out a very expensive network and replacing it, but I do think as new RFPs come out, our ability to compete in bigger more geographies as Huawei becomes less and less of an option, is something that is factored into our model. Let me check with the audience, see if we've got questions out there. Nope. Okay. I wanna talk to you a little bit about Metro. In that I imagine people don't know that that's not your strongest area. You tend to be more in the core, but Metro's kind of crowded. Nokia is almost all Metro- Yeah ... in their share, and now Ciena's entered Metro. Cisco obviously is there 'cause they're everywhere. How do you see yourself being able to displace what's kind of crowded? Yeah. No, we feel actually pretty good about the Metro opportunity. As you mentioned, we have a strong core presence, a strong enterprise presence. Think of this as the extension of the edge presence. I'm sorry, think of this as the extension of the edge, right? Where really, if you are a Juniper incumbent that loves Junos in your core or your edge, it's natural to move Junos into the Metro. So we're seeing some good opportunity there. It is a growth space. I would view this as less complicated routing so it's quite honestly easy for us. It's within our wheelhouse. It's using it's merchant ASICs, it's Junos operating system. We have some great traction. I do think it's going to be a growth driver for our service router business. There's no doubt about it. The question is, does—are we flat in edge and core with growth in Metro? That's very plausible. Whereas, or is core and edge gonna go up and down a bit, with Metro being the sustained growth opportunity? And yeah, it's crowded, but we have good market share in core and edge, and I think we could get to similar share in the Metro space over time. Great. So just to wrap it up then, I always like to close with the following: What do you think is the least appreciated aspect of Juniper's story? I think it's the sustainability. I think there is a concern or a question about, has the past performance, is it sustainable, right? And is it really just the feature of supply, and it's all gonna come to a crashing halt. and my opinion is, our sustainability in the enterprise is not that well understood why we're winning in enterprise. People see the results, but I've heard people think, "Oh, that's because your competitor doesn't have supply," things of that nature. That's not why we're winning. We're winning with a differentiated solution, this experience-first value prop that we're selling. It's about a TCO reduction. It's about limiting trouble tickets. It's about rolling out your network faster. We're really going after the operational cost of the network versus making this a CapEx to CapEx discussion, and I think that has, that has legs, that has sustainability. Well, great. Well, Ken, thanks for joining us. Folks, thanks for joining us. End of our session with Juniper Networks. Great, thank you.