Morning, my name is Alex Henderson. I'm the networking and security analyst at Needham. It's a pleasure to have Luna here today. It's a company that has been very actively realigning itself into higher growth arenas, demonstrating the ability to find and execute on solid acquisitions. And I think is uniquely positioned in terms of technology. It's not a particularly inexpensive stock at current valuations. Based on our estimates, Luna is currently at about 25 times EV/EBITDA on 2024 numbers, but I think those numbers will come up quite substantially over time. And the uniqueness of the company makes it a very interesting investment vehicle. We're gonna do a fireside chat, even though I'm sitting up here and they're down there. But there's only three mics, so we're making do the way we can. So with that, welcome, guys. Yep, thank you. For people who don't know you, maybe give a little bit of background on yourselves and Luna. Sure. I am Scott Graeff, President, CEO. Been with the company about 21 years, have held just about every position, and took over CEO about 7 years ago. Luna's been around since 1990, and IPO'd in 2006. I'm Brian Soller, Luna's CTO. I've also been with the company for about 21 years. Scott and I started right around the same time, and, you know, I've started with as a technologist in product development, product marketing, product management, and I've worked with sales and operations over the years, building our test measurement and sensing business, which really fully represents Luna today, and happy to be here. Great. Perfect. Then, can you give people a quick snapshot of what exactly you do? Sure, sure. I think that's, you know, when you think of, of what Luna, Luna does, Luna, it's basically fiber optics related. So everything we do is related to fiber optics, and, and we do that in, in kind of two verticals, if you will. When you think of, of us in using, how do we use fiber optics? And I think, you know, we, we have two distinct ways that we use that fiber. One is on the sensing side, where we call it sensing, where we use the fiber itself as the sensor. So where we go out and, and displace, where, say, foil strain gauge, some kind of gauge that was on a piece of infrastructure, we use the fiber as itself. The advantage to that is you can embed that into the concrete or into the composite, things like that, and it's flight-ready. So you can go out and put this fiber out on these large infrastructures and monitor it. The key is not just to measure it, but to monitor it. That's the key in going forward with the recurring revenue and being a partner with that entity. So we're on the Tappan Zee Bridge. The closest example I can give is the, whatever they call it now, the Cuomo maybe or something. Cuomo. T he Tappan Zee Bridge is where, you know, we're monitoring that bridge, you know, kind of in real time. We have about 50 systems on the longest bridge in the world between that connects Hong Kong to Macau. So that's a big part of ours. That represents about 70%-75% of our revenue, is that sensing side of it. The easiest way for me to analogize it is the central nervous system in your human body, right? You have your brain, and you have nerves everywhere in your body, and that's what tells you when you stub your big toe, that your big toe hurts. That's what we're doing with fiber. So when you think about what are we doing? We have an interrogator, and we take all this fiber and put it, you know, out throughout a plane or an automobile or a structure, and we're feeding that back. So we're getting real-time information back that no one else can do. All those are designed with standard telecom-type fiber. So the smarts of our system is in the interrogator itself, using off-the-shelf fiber. The other side of the business, which represents about 25% of the business, you can think of it as the old kind of telco, if you will. It's not telco, it's more data co. But that's where we have products and components that we sell into the communications test market. W e have equipment that can be sold in onto the manufacturing line, you know, where the chips are being made, you know, off of the wafers. We can measure the consistency of those chips, and then we have some systems that can go into data rooms and measure to make sure there's not loss across that short-haul network. You know, what the advantage is in using ours is, you know, it's measuring off of fiber. Everyone's removing. They've removed copper years ago. They want to get all the electrical off the network and use fiber. It's just faster. You know, everyone wants the fastest out there, and our system measures that. So we have that. We also make components in this market vertical, where we sell lasers and things like that. You know, you've probably seen, if you followed it, where we are spec'd into the Intuitive Surgical of the world. Intuitive Surgical, making their robot for surgery, uses our laser. So we've been spec'd into that, sole-sourced into that, that they then took and got FDA approval. So we have a couple big companies that I know Alex has talked about in his write-ups, in being spec'd into. So you kind of know a little bit of that consistency of big names that have recurring revenue in that way. You're in the EV battery business as well? That's right. That's right. And, Brian, do you want to talk a little bit about how we, we do? Sure. O n the sensing side of our business, as Scott mentioned, we take advantage of the fact that fiber is ubiquitous, right? So anywhere there's, say, an oil and gas pipeline, that right away has optical fiber in it for communications purposes. We just tap into one of those fibers with our proprietary technology, and we can now monitor the pipeline for leaks, for intrusion, et cetera. W e're taking advantage of this fiber that's already everywhere, basically, in the world. In addition to that, a portion of this part of our business is a little bit different. We are, and our core expertise is in high-precision fiber optic measurement systems. And one of those systems, in our sensing side of our business, is actually leveraged to create terahertz waves. I t's really similar from a core technology perspective, but the applications are quite different. We're not measuring a fiber sensor. We're actually using a fiber system to create terahertz waves. Terahertz waves you can think of as safe X-rays. We've industrialized. We're the only company in the world that has industrialized a terahertz measurement system for deployment in, for instance, the application Alex mentioned, is a production of EV batteries. This is a process that has really exploded over the last few years, and our ability to use radiation safe, human safe radiation to measure the thicknesses and the materials that go into those batteries, has, has enabled some of the biggest companies in the world to create more efficient batteries, which leads to longer lengths in terms of the distance the car can go, which is really one of the key drivers for EVs. Getting lengths up over 500 miles, those sorts of things. So we're a key player in our ability to help that application, and there are many others that we're looking at for our terahertz systems, but that's one of the main growth drivers for that part of the business today. I f that's what you do, let's talk about some of the metrics. I think of the company as kind of a 10%-20% type growth company organically, plus some additional growth coming in from acquisitions. You've had a good track record on margins, 2021, 7.3%, 2022, 9.4% operating margin. We're modeling it at 10.7% for 2023 fiscal year and continuing to improve. Y ou've got 10%-20% top line and a point or two of margin expansion. Is that kind of the mechanics that we should be thinking about? Yeah, I mean, I think we look at. You know, we've gone out and said that we believe, you know, we're trying to drive this business 20% organic growth, 60% gross margin, and 20% pull through to EBITDA. That's not where we are, but that is where we're certainly driving to, so you should see us stepping closer to that. I think that 10%-15% on the adjusted operating income is the right number on where we're trying to drive this thing. Now, you've just closed an acquisition. You are clearly acquisition oriented. Can you talk about, A, the one you just closed, and B, what the strategy is there? Yeah. Well, you know, every year, this is something that you know, we always have our eyes downrange and looking at things, whether it's a build or a buy, and looking at where we're gapped. So every year, around this time, and you know, in January or early February, you know, we present a three-year strategic plan to the board. And it's a very detailed 120-page strategic plan that gets approved by the board and walks through all the thinking of what we believe can happen over the next three years, from advancement of technology, what's coming off the product roadmap, all the things that... It's an organic-related three-year strategic plan that we put together, and then we put financials tied to that, and that's what our LTIP is all tied to, is those financials that get, you know, put in there, 100% performance-based. You know, but you look at and think about where are you gapped and is it a build or a buy? You know, if you looked at the one I put together probably five, six years ago, it had names like, you know, we ought to keep our eye on Silixa, we ought to keep our eye on OptaSense, we ought to keep our eye on LIOS, AP Sensing. There's some other companies out there that fill gaps, you know, of where we are, and if you followed it, you know that we did acquire OptaSense. They brought acoustic sensing, long-range, 100-kilometer, long-range pipeline monitoring through using acoustics back at the end of 2020. And then- What's the size of a typical acquisition? You know, usually, these are private companies, or they're a division of a larger company, so they're $20-$25-$30 million in revenue. This is not, you know, major stuff, but these are companies, if they're private, and they're standalone, they're $25 million in revenue, and depending on their funding source, they have to be profitable. Well, no one wants to be profitable at $25 million. That means you're not investing enough back into the organization to grow it the way you want to grow it. So we kind of take advantage of that, and Silixa is one of those ones. They filled a gap for us in where they were. So Silixa was the deal that just closed- Just closed -this December. Yeah, we just closed Silixa. That was a, you know, a company that I called probably four years ago, and they had just done a private equity round with Lime Rock and Shell and Equinor, and they did a $75 million valuation. So they were not interested in selling when I called them three or four years ago, but called us earlier this year, and due to the, you know, the private equity fund was in year eight, and they wanted to move on. They said, "Are you interested in entering a bid process?" And we did enter that process earlier in 2023 and spent 10 months going through that. T ypically, when you buy something, $20 million-$25 million in revenues, what kind of EBITDA multiple do you have to pay to acquire something of that sort? And, you know, how accretive is it to your growth rate? Yeah. We, you know, we look at... You know, we don't, we don't chase price. W e, we, we can't afford to do that in, in our opinion. Everything we've done up until this transaction has all been done on the balance sheet using cash and/or debt. And, you know, we look at being, you know, kinda, you know, 10% or at 10 times- Ten times EBITDA. It has to be accretive. We cannot afford to get something that is not accretive. Certainly, I say short term, and certainly in the first year, it has to be accretive. I'd like to see it accretive out of the gate, but accretive in the short run. We just cannot afford to get something that is gonna be the home run three, four years from now. We have to see it- So- at the top and bottom. What's the periodicity on these type of acquisitions? You just closed one in December. Is it going to be another year, year and a half before you are positioned to do another one? How long does the integration take, and how should we think about that as part of your business model? Yeah, we look at integration immediately. Now, this transaction that we did, you know, and we talked about it in the press release, you know, they have a trailing $30 million of revenue, and we paid GBP 17 million upfront for that. It has a $13 million or GBP 13 million earn-out. So, you're integrating a lot of things, but you have to be careful to not. You can't. I can't get rid of the sales force and immediately integrate things right away because of that earn-out that is all dealt with in 2024. So but we have weekly meetings on integration. We have, you know, a person that runs the integration and brings all of us every week to an hour meeting to integrate. It's a very important piece to make people feel... To get the most out of this acquisition, you have to integrate them into the company. Yeah, we functionally integrate immediately, so that's very quick. You can get that done right out of the gate. So- But it takes 18 months to get all the back office and everything. Eric, up to you. At what point in the integration of the prior acquisition do you think you're now ready to do another acquisition, is what I'm trying to drive at? Yeah, 12-18 months is probably right. Twelve- 12-18 months. Yeah. Kind of one every 12-18 months is a reasonable proxy at, call it $20 million-$25 million- Yeah on your base of revenues, that adds a pretty nice chunk of growth to your results, right? Yep. It does. So if I'm 10%-20% organic plus this, and it's immediately accretive, that's the business model in a sense? I think that's right. I think that's right. That's a good way to look at it. I mean, you know, we drive like hell on the organic side of it, and like I said, always keep our options open on the... But, you know, we don't have an M&A team, so it's not like we're gonna do these... You know, you're not gonna see three or four of these in a year. These, this is something that- Yeah that we will do strate Much more controlled. We will do these strategically and very controlled. Yes. Yeah, so let's talk about, you know, this market, broadly speaking, a lot of the companies that you sell into are somewhat cyclical, in a sense, I think you did see some deceleration in 2023 based on the macro. So can you talk about what the macro conditions have done to your results over the last year, and how do you see that progressing into 2024? Yeah, it's been... 2023, 2023 has been a tough year. I mean, you know, we have seen a lot of still supply issues and things like that, you know, that we couldn't get parts, and then we have to re-engineer existing products to work with. An example is, we couldn't get the epoxy, so we had to go with a different epoxy, which was fine. There's plenty of epoxy out there, but it had to be – the product had to be re-engineered to work with that epoxy or work with that board or that circuitry. We're constantly coming out with new versions of our product that go longer or faster and things like that, and you've got to buy a lot of inventory to get that. So it's been a challenging year, obviously, with geopolitical issues and the macro issues that are out there. But, y- Yeah, I think the entire tech sector had, over the last 2-3 years, had to redesign existing products just to keep those on the market because of the issues related to supply chain. We're not seeing the supply chain issues anymore. That's sort of 6-12 months behind us. But we had, you know, new products coming out in Q4 and now here in Q1, that take advantage of, you know, the parts that are available, and that cycle is something that we're just coming out of. So that was, you know, something that not only Luna, but I think the entire industry had to fight through in 2023. Y ou know, the cost of capital slowed down CapEx spending, you know, across a couple of our key segments, and as we mentioned on previous quarter calls, government spending was a little depressed in the first half of last year. We've seen that come back. We've seen capital start to loosen on the CapEx side spending as well, so expect better things. O ne of the events that's been in the news is the Alaska Airlines that you know plug getting blown out. You guys are in Airbus in measuring stresses. Had you been in that plane, would it have seen that event? I saw that hit the news, and I thought, "Gee, well, maybe Boeing needs to go put your systems in." Probably the only person on the planet to plot that, but- Yeah. So the short answer is that we think yes. I mean, without knowing the exact details, obviously can't be definitive, but, we're already talking to and working with our partners on that problem. Y ou were in a couple of airframes, one with Airbus, and I think it was Northrop was the other one, right? Yeah. Yep, definitely. You're not in their full line. How do you see that progressing, particularly given the events that have occurred? Does that accelerate that business? Yeah, I think it does. You know, the aerospace has been a key part of, you know, our growth and, our, a lot of our key customers. But the segment itself is slow to adopt new technology. So when we look at our plan, you know, we look at key wins to take advantage of a longer-term trend. So it, it's the kind of thing that takes time, and, you know, our partners remind us of that. Meggitt, Parker Meggitt is one of our biggest partners there to take new sensor technology into aerospace, and they're constantly reminding us, "You've got to be patient because it takes time, but once you do get spec'd in, it's 30 years of annuity revenue." So it's not a huge part of our growth plan for the next 3 years in terms of revenue, but it is a big part of the overall strategic plan for the future. Mm-hmm. Just hypothetically, if you were to expand to another airframe within, say, Airbus, what would that be additive to your revenues in any given year? ... ten, I'd say $10 million, so maybe 5%-10% at the high side. How many different airframes are you not in, that you might be able to be added to over time? All of them. Yeah, we're only in one. I don't know how many airframes they have. Yeah. Maybe quantify that? Oh, yeah. Dozens. Dozens. Dozens. Yeah. It's potentially a very large- Potentially very large, yes- -uh, target. I t does take time. Similarly, with Northrop, you're in one frame? Yeah. So we are spec-specified in as support equipment for the F-35, and we do, you know, $5 million-$8 million a year, probably revenue today on that one aircraft. And again, there are, 12 at least following that. And again, we'll have our second... We anticipate our second aircraft in that category, this year. Oh, nice! Yep. So- We'll announce that when it happens, but we- Right. Okay. Brian was kind of announcing that now, I guess. I don't know. So, but we'll make it official when we have the- All right. I'll wait for that before I put it in any notes. Going back to the EV side of it, you've moved your production to Atlanta. That significantly increases your capacity. You've been constrained on it. There's a reshoring opportunity in EV batteries as they move to the U.S. Can you talk about that opportunity and the scaling of that, and what the growth trajectory looks like? And what's the impact of the ability to now ramp the production into Atlanta? Yeah. Well, there were several things that went on in the Terahertz product, which is what we use, you know, in the EV test manufacturing. That was still a spillover that was left in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and we felt that it needed to come down to our facility down in Atlanta. So we did close that facility and move it to Atlanta. At the same time, it needed a redesign. We were making, or API and Picometrix was making their own laser that went into this system, and it was the only laser that worked in this system. That was true unless we re-engineered the system itself, and that's what we did in order to be able to go out to the Newports of the world to buy a laser to put in this system. So we re-engineered the system, moved it to Atlanta, and went from production volume of 1 per week up to the ability to go to 4 a week. So, you know, these. The ASP on these things are around $125, $150, so 4 a week is, you know, roughly, you know, somewhere between $25 million and $30 million of capacity that we can get to. And that's running just 1 shift. So that was important to get it into our Atlanta facility and have that capacity to lean into where we believe this opportunity is going. N ow that you're in Atlanta and have done all of that redesign work, how does that ramp? When do we go to 2 units per week, and 3 units, and then 4 units? Is that over an 18-24-month kind of window? I think that's the right timeframe to look at it. We're at two basically already today, in terms of units that generate revenue. That would add how much revenue in that segment if you were to go to 4 units? Well, it would double it. You'd go from mid-teens to, you know- 2-4 is a double. Yeah. How much revenue is it? Uh- Figured out that 2-4 is a double. It goes from mid-teens, you know, it goes from $12 million-$15 million of revenue, to probably $25 million-$30 million of revenue. That's pretty good- Yeah, it is. It really- growth in that battery. It really is. Right. It really is. Y ou've got new airframes, you've got the ramp in that. What about the Intuitive Surgical piece? I mentioned earlier, we're our expertise is in precision measurement technology that utilizes laser systems. We make most of the laser systems in-house, and one of them in particular. So typically, we build them into an instrument, and our model is to sell the instrument and the sensors and the service that go along with that. In the case of Intuitive Surgical, we have an agreement with them where they actually just buy one of our laser systems that we manufacture, and they use it in one of their surgical robots. So we have a long-term supply agreement with them that we announced at the end of 2022, about a $14 million order placement that covers us through this year, basically, the end of this year. T hat has doubled in its ramp. I t was, you know, it was at X until about the end of last year. It has now doubled as planned, and that'll go through... So volume-wise, that'll go through this year. And then, as their sales grow, we anticipate our sales to grow. W hat, for those who don't know, and that includes me, Intuitive Surgical very well, what kind of growth is that? I mean, is it a 10-15, 20% kind of growth end market, or is it less than that? Yeah, I think- Just wondering. You know, we have to go by what we've seen in the past. They do publish their numbers in terms of the number of robots they sell, so you can look at those. But based on what they've done on this platform and what they anticipate, it's definitely in that 20% range. Y ou've got very significant growth in batteries, you've got very significant growth in airframes, you've got a very significant growth organically in Intuitive Surgical. What about the, you know, the field, the, you know, bridges, dams, you know, those type of things? How big a nut is that, and what kind of growth do you see in that segment? T hat segment for us now is about, I guess, 70% of the total revenue this year, that sensing segment that was on this side of the graphic. You know, that's made up of a lot of what I'd say are doubles and triples. So if you look at the top 30 customers in that segment that we track very closely every year, and that we look to mature, you know, they represent, you know, something like a 50% growth opportunity, right? Now, that's not that entire group of customers. That's the growers that we have a lot of visibility into, and it's, as I said, you know, 30, 40 customers that are going from, say, $1 million-$2 million a year. but that nets out to a growth, you know, overall that we expect to be right in that 15%-20% range. I think if you look at those pieces, you've got very good growth potential in- Mm Every one of them. And so if I aggregate them, it does sound like it's more like a 20%+, but you've been around 10%, 15%, over the last 4, 5, 6 quarters. When do you expect that to re-accelerate into that higher rate of growth, and to drive that margin, based on that? Well, we certainly expect 2024 to be better than 2023. We were on that clip. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we're seeing that now in that growth. I mean, the key to this is really getting the monitoring side of it. You know, we see that recurring revenue growing, and that's the key piece. You know, like I said at Investor Day back in May, the recurring revenue through the blanket orders, through getting more of the Intuitive Surgicals, getting more the medical side that we see coming down the road, as well as the monitoring of these infrastructures. So getting out onto the infrastructure and letting that grow. I think, you know, the Silixa acquisition was a key piece of the carbon sequestration that we believe is a huge opportunity going forward. I think we'll be talking about, like you're talking about EV, and we're talking about some of those big ones. I think you'll be adding, you know, carbon capture to that as well. That's a huge opportunity for us. Just going into the mechanics of that. So they have a heavy seasonality, right? So you said it's accretive, but it sounds like it's accretive when they get the seasonally stronger back half numbers, not in the front half of the year. Is that fair? That's probably fair, yeah. I mean, like most of us in this industry, the first half is a lot shyer than the second half. So balance sheet, post the transaction, where do you stand, and what's the deal with your partnership with the, your private equity guys? Yeah, I mean, you know, look, when we identified... when I got that call from. from. I've been talking to the White Hat folks, I mean, for a couple of years now, and, you know, the partners out of White Hat come out of test and measurement. They know fiber optics. That's the world they lived in, like you. So, you know, from Montgomery to S- to Stifel to running White Hat. So it was a relationship that made sense for us to have conversation. It was always a refreshing conversation to talk to some investors that really know the space that we're in. W e started having that relationship, and so when we got the call on Silixa, certainly, I didn't think that using the balance sheet, you know, we had $30 million of debt, you know, made the most sense, and I thought recapitalization of the company went along with providing the cash for the acquisition. So, we got engaged with White Hat. They were involved every step of the way. It was really twofold. Throughout all of 2023, our first meeting with Silixa to enter this process was February 2023, and we closed the transaction whatever, on some ridiculous December 21st. So it took you know, over 10 months to do this. It was not just us doing due diligence side by side with White Hat on Silixa, but it was them doing due diligence on us. T here was a lot of non-public due diligence that White Hat did. They visited every one of our offices. It was a very strategic relationship. Could we have gone out and done a club deal and not given up a board seat? We could have, and we looked at that, but to bring someone, to bring a firm on that understands the business, the board and we believed that that was the best transaction. So I think, you know, we welcomed the board seat. Makes my life a lot more difficult, but I think overall, I think it’s a really good step forward, in this change that Luna’s going through. You see that with selling of the Luna Labs in 2022, and now with, you know, with Needham and Stifel picking up coverage, you just got more exposure. So I think the balance sheet now, we took that $50 million, $25 million went to pay for the acquisition, you know, the £17 million acquisition plus expenses, so $25 million went there. We took $17 million of it and paid down the term debt that we had with PNC. So, so we're very excited about bringing White Hat to the table, you know, as part of Luna. So... Great. Let me throw it open and see if there's any questions from the field here. Come on. No? Okay. So I'm gonna continue down the path. So if you look at your acquisition completed in Silixa, do you have a set of candidates that you're still looking at? What does the pipeline on the acquisition front look like? Yeah. I mean, we're about to go through- Yeah. Like I said, we're about to go through another three-year strategic plan that we present to the board and, you know, and that whole thing, and we usually end with, you know, where the gaps are, and is there things out there? I mean, you know, I don't think we're... you know, we're saying we need to be aggressive with going out and doing that. We believe organic growth is important, and I think focusing on making sure that we integrate properly and really focus on what we have on our plate today. That doesn't mean as we see gaps, there may be acquisitions, but I really see, you know, the next 12-18 months of really trying to drive the organic side of it. Yep. So- Oh, I'm sorry. No, please. Asking the same queston in a different way: Where do you see the biggest gaps in your product portfolio today? Well, I think we've fleshed out the, Yeah ... the hardware side pretty well. There are going to be those gaps are getting smaller, let me put it that way. That's not to say we wouldn't add some, some additional hardware to the platform, I think. But if you look at the sensing side of our business in particular, and you look at the markets we're in and the opportunity we the opportunity we have over the long term to generate revenue of a more recurring nature, the gaps are gonna be much more along the lines of building the infrastructure to support those types of, of customers. Yeah, and I think, you know, this slide that we put together talking about, you know, Luna with the ODiSI, you know, high resolution, super high resolution, shorter range, you know, inside of 100 meters. So where is it going in aerospace and automotive? It's going onto the wing of an aircraft. In manufacturing, it's going onto the automotive while they're testing things and things like that. And then, you know, we, the longer range that we have with our Hyperion and the DAS and the DTS that we got from the acquisition of OptaSense and LIOS and Micron Optics, you know, filling those gaps. We saw this centerpiece here, this gray piece, and that's where kind of Silixa dropped in. You know, that carbon sequestration, they just fill a void kind of in that, say, what, 5-20-kilometer range, that just wasn't our sweet spot. We're much longer range and things like that. We use off-the-shelf fiber. They use specialty fiber. We just couldn't play in some of that oil and gas and really carbon sequestration space. So it was important to fill. That was a big gap. You know, I don't see any other gap that lies in here, and I'm thinking through the three-year strat that we're gonna present here shortly. I don't see a big gap in there. There's always kind of trying to gather these things. If there's opportunity, and we see high quality, whether it's management, technology, things like that, it's always worth kinda looking at. And like I said, it's so fragmented in what's hanging out there, these $20-$25 million companies that, because of their capital structure, are forced to be profitable, and that's just... They're just not gonna grow. I mean, you know, it's not the right thing to be profitable at $25 million, so. Any other questions? Please, Tyler. Hey, Scott. Maybe just talk a little bit about the software strategy. I mean, you talked about it a few times just in regards to the questions here, but just how specifically are you going to be looking to leverage that over the next, you know, three to five years? Yeah, it's very important. Do you wanna talk about it? So Silixa has a real head start on that software package- Yeah. T hat was very attractive to us. You heard us say at the Investor Day that this recurring revenue and monitoring, the 24/7 monitoring that we do, is very important to, you know, to where we're going. We've already won business because we had their software involved in us, and you can talk about it, too. I mean, like I said, that gap that they fill from a technology standpoint, the hardware perspective, but the customer likes our software better. So there's a combination thereof. Yeah. Software, just critical to the plan over the next 3-5 years. We produce. If you go back one, we produce a lot of data. These systems are constantly producing data. We need to take that data and turn it into information for our customers. What Silixa. So our. The market, in general, prefers our interface on the right side here, our tools, the simplified version of what we offer, but what Silixa brings to the table is a stronger data analytics play. So it's turning the data into information that can be used for predictive maintenance, analytics, those sorts of things, right? O ver the next, you know, the, the aperture of our plan, we're really focusing on how do we take this, all this information that we generate, and turn it into something that's actionable, that our customer can use and consume in a very straightforward way. So the combination of those two blocks on the right is, is a good start, but then we need to build on that, right? And that includes, that's gonna include investing in more, data scientists, data analytics, predictive AI, machine learning, to take, the information that's thrown off. For instance, if you think of, the example, Alex, you started with, of the, of the issue that Boeing had, sensors throwing off some data, right? Well, how do you know that's-- How can you use that to predict that the door is gonna fall off? You can, but you have to build that infrastructure, and that doesn't just happen. You don't just hook a sensor system up, and it tells you, you know, that, "Okay, yeah, the door's gonna fall off." It's kind of like you've listened to the creaks in your house at night, but everyone has experience with that. How do you know if those are meaningful? Our system listens for those things, but over time, if you aggregate enough, if you do enough pipelines, enough roads, bridges, dams, you can build in, the smarts to turn that information into something actionable. So that, that's the strategy on the software side. Yeah. Are there opportunities in the medical imaging business? Yes. I don't see it on your list here. Yeah, we try not to get out ahead of ourselves, but it's one of the biggest opportunities that we have that we're pretty far down the road on in that space. And we'll talk a little bit more about it, you know. If you look at my presentation from 3-4 years ago, I didn't talk at all about terahertz. I just feel like, you know, that overpromise or get out ahead of yourself is not gonna-- But that's a huge, huge area for us that we're probably. You know, the way these things, these opportunities start, you kind of go out there because they want something new. They want something that's unique. They take your product, and they say, "But can it do this?" And you get them alphas and betas, and we're pretty far down the road in some of that space that- Yeah, and we- I think- ... we believe that growth comes from focus, and we've already got a very diverse, you can tell, customer set and kind of go-to-market strategy. So there are high potential, you know, growth areas out there, including, you know, imaging using terahertz medical applications. But, you know- I'm thinking actually temperature sensing, the basic stuff. There are. I know there are opportunities there. I heard of them anyway. Yeah, and so some of our biggest OEM customers are using our systems for that particular application. Okay. Right? At our size, a relatively large OEM customer is $2 million or maybe $2-$3 million a year. So it's not something that we would, you know, highlight necessarily, and especially if it falls in that category below infrastructure, energy, and, you know, maybe aerospace. You know, we don't wanna- Yes, certainly ...complicate the story too much, but there are some really strong growth opportunities, and- Y ou think about the opportunities, you know, related to Tyler's point about the software and where we're going with that, with hiring data and analytics people. You know, we're getting ready, you know, to present a budget for approval on Monday to the board. I believe it has 70 heads in there, for 2024. I think there's 70 hires. That obviously represents the majority of our OpEx is our people. Of that 70, I would bet 80% of them are operations, engineers, and sales. You know, we don't hire a lot of us guys sitting up here. You know, it's really getting the operations, the engineers, and the sales. So, Well- T here you go, Dave- We're running out of time here. ... a preview of what you might see. We're running out of time here. Let me just give you a summary from our perspective. We think this is a company that obviously has a lot of avenues to growth. We think the margin expansion is going to continue, and we think ultimately this is a name that is a good, solid investment. So with that, thank you, guys, so much for coming, and I'm sure there's you know, time to ask questions out in the hall or whatever as you get to your next meeting. Thanks. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Next up in this room is Radcom. Just a quick-