All right, thank you all for joining us. I think early in the morning, I guess. John, Jason Ader is senior executive. You'll get a chance, if you Google John, great little series of are they podcasts or are they- Yeah, they're podcasts. Yeah, yeah. Pinot with Pags is well worth your time to get a better understanding of the moments, and worth your time. And if this was in the afternoon, I think we'd have a Pinot up here. But okay, thanks for being here. Sorry, let's get back to business here. So, John Pagliuca, President and CEO, and then Tim O'Brien, CFO, and Griffin and I are down front here. Thanks, guys, for joining us from N-able. Maybe, John, you know, I've known you guys for a long time, but I think just for the sake of folks, you know, maybe aren't as familiar with N-able. Sure. Maybe a little bit of background on the company and what it is that you guys are to solve problems for folks. Sure. By the way, great, great, thanks for having us, and good to see you again. I'm not that big of a wine guy. It was just that Pinot with Pags just kind of flowed, and- Yeah. And what that really was was more of an industry conversation with someone to explain to MSPs, and I'll get into that in a second, really the trends that we're seeing- Yeah. in the business. We would do that, we would do that quarterly. So what is N-able? So N-able is a, a SaaS platform, really. So Software as a Service platform that is purpose-built for MSPs. What are MSPs? So they're managed service providers, or, you know, an easier way to say it, IT consultants or IT augment staff. Yeah. So N-able has about 25,000 managed service providers. Those managed service providers are providing an IT service and security service for about 500,000-600,000 small medium enterprises across the globe. And those small medium enterprises are looking for MSPs to help them be productive, to help them collaborate in this hybrid workforce, whether it be the remote workforce or even just navigating the cloud, as they say. And more importantly, or just as importantly, these small medium enterprises are looking to MSPs to help them be secure. So our platform is really a monitoring and management platform that also has a data protection and security element to it, and we provide all these security services as well to these MSPs so that they can run their businesses, and do so efficiently and at scale. So this platform that we have is really Matt, it's really their operating fabric. It's really their centerpiece. It's effectively their technicians ERP- Yeah. what they're doing day in and day out, so that they can manage remotely and efficiently these, you know, 600,000 small medium enterprises. Maybe talk a little bit more of the evolution of the platform, because you're going into a lot of really exciting areas now. Sure. Maybe just a little bit of the history of the platform evolution and maybe how- Sure. Because ultimately, it's a TAM expansion, story. Yeah, and so that's a great way to lay it out. And so if you think about our TAM, and if you don't mind, I'll walk through the growth algorithm really quickly. So when N-able lands an MSP, we grow. When those MSPs add a small medium enterprise, we grow. When those small medium enterprises add a customer or an employee, we grow. And then, as we bring new services into the market, our white space and our opportunity grows again. So that's the X-axis, and we'll talk about the Y-axis in a second, but the X-axis of how we grow our market is really on the number of services we bring to market. And so the industry really started as an IT help desk, right? So monitoring and managing and being able to take control of a person's device. So if you were a small medium enterprise, if you were a law firm, you would have your IT professional making sure that your printers were up, your Wi-Fi was up, and that your machines were able to do so. And so what happened, that was basically starting in monitoring and management of the network and of the device. And then the bad guys took aim at the small medium enterprise in about 2016-2017, and we saw a big uptick in ransomware for small medium enterprise. So what happened there was small medium enterprise, those IT professionals, those MSPs, to now help them be that trusted security provider. And they started to see MSPs began to add things like antivirus, DNS filtering, backup, and data protection. And that was around 2017-2020, and now that evolution's continued, and we see MSPs providing anything from a security offerings, but also helping them with the business' automation and helping these small medium enterprises use IT and technology in all aspects of their business. So these MSPs have really become that trusted, not just security provider, but IT professional for these small medium enterprises and really being a partner for these small medium businesses. That, that's super great perspective. We'll get to the growth drivers, but like, you know, we hear John talk about some big secular trends. What does that mean from your perspective, from a growth perspective and we think longer term? Yeah, absolutely. And I think the thing I'm most excited about is the velocity at which we've expanded our opportunity- Yeah. ... over the past couple of years. You know, just in this call this week, we launched and talked about offering an MDR offering. We now have, you know, on a per-device basis, an opportunity of upwards of $30 per unit, if not north of $30 per unit. That number was much lower years ago. And now, you know, the execution opportunity, you know, that white space opportunity we have, just to cross-sell, you know, that expanded TAM opportunity into the base has greatly expanded. And for us, you know, now the focus is on executing at a level to really penetrate and drive that price per device much higher into 2024 and 2025 and beyond. And maybe just give us a sense for what's always been attractive. So there's multiple catalysts of growth. John, you mentioned some of the different ways you can expand, but maybe, you know, from an ASP perspective or per device perspective, maybe... Where is the average customer today? I agree. Yeah, you can start it, like- Yeah, so we've got north of 8 million devices under management. That ASP is in the, I would say, the between $3 and $4 now, with that opportunity of, you know, $30+. So there's a tax opportunity on that price per device and the base, and some of those things are newer. You know, we brought, you know, bringing cloud management offerings to market now, MDR offerings. A lot of those snowballs are either literally starting today or have just started, and they're in their very, very early days. And then the key, you know, one of the biggest, I would say the biggest opportunity in the business model is really expanding that price per device that we have. And I love the fact that, you know, we have that 10x opportunity on where we're at today and where we could be tomorrow. And that $30, there's other categories we're not checking that box on today, that we're always exploring and, and looking at, you know, what is the next big demand that the MSP either has today or is going to have tomorrow, that we need to go either build, buy or partner with? And that's how we think about, you know, that framework, how we bring new technology to our MSPs and that, and that build, buy, partner framework. And there's three trends that are kind of feeding the demand for all of this, right? So we're seeing MSPs, and the market is scaling, so that's cool. And Tim and I have been in this industry now for over 10 years, and 10 years ago, MSPs were focused on a lot of 50, you know, small medium enterprises, 50 employees on that. Yeah. That's changed completely. We're seeing MSPs servicing Fortune 1000 companies and the Starbuckses and Johnson & Johnsons, and they're now a part of a larger augmentation strategy from some of these Fortune 1000 companies and mid-market enterprises. So the TAM is getting higher there. So what we're seeing a couple things. We're seeing MSPs looking to standardize- Yeah. ... and modernize their tech stack. And so because our business model is a sell to, but also a sell through, in other words, MSPs take N-able services and software, and they sell, they sell that and present that as a service to their small medium enterprise. An MSP may have six or seven different backup vendors that they're managing in their state. Well, that's hugely inefficient for the technician, for managing the software. So we're seeing MSP saying, "Hey, let's standardize. Let's standardize on two. Let's standardize on one. Let's standardize on N-able." And we're doing that, we're seeing the ASP, but that's also helping their profit and their efficiency. Yeah. So we're seeing that. We're seeing MSPs go upmarket. I touched on this a little bit. And so we're seeing that MSPs are now becoming an augmented staff. They're now managing again, or helping to manage these Fortune 1000 companies. And then probably the biggest driver from a MSP revenue and from a TAM point of view is what's going on with security. Yeah. Security used to be a personal preference really, like, "Hey, how risk averse are you? Yeah. And then, depending on your cost-benefit equation, you would, you know, invest accordingly. But now what's happening is compliance is driving what used to be more of a gray or a more of a discretionary bit to more of a black-and-white, a one or a zero binary decision. Are you compliant or not? And if you're not compliant, well, then the small medium enterprise, you can't sell into this manufacturing company, or you can't sell into healthcare. You can't do that. So now MSPs are walking into their customers, and MSPs don't really like to sell- Yeah. ... software. But now what they can do is they can take their checklist- Yeah. and say, "Hey, Mr. Customer and Ms. Customer, if you want to be compliant, if you want to be in the space, you need to have EDR, you need to have managed detection and response. You need to have a backup offering and be able to restore your data. What are you doing with MFA?" And so now MSPs are able to grow their book of business, driving compliance as a big tailwind. So we're seeing that, and as a result, that's why Tim, as you mentioned earlier, all these other security services and our backup offering, we're seeing that great uptick because compliance and some of the regulatory boards and cyber insurance is pushing the need all the way down to all these SMEs as well. Can you give us another perspective? You know, you guys don't disclose MSPs, the number of MSPs you're working on, but can you give us a rough sense of, you know, how many MSPs are out there globally? And just, you know, how fragmented- Sure. You know, it's a funny little industry. I've been in this industry for, you know, like I said, over 10 years, and it's an acronym that really speaks to the business model. Sure. But they're IT consultants, they're MSSPs, they're MDR shops, they're MSPs, they're resellers. Yeah. It depends on the number you look at. Yeah, so in our docs, we say 125,000, but I've seen, and I'm frankly more comfortable with numbers that are even closer to 200,000-300,000. Folks that are providing this type of service to small, medium enterprises, right? And because the industry grew up in a lot of ways as resellers. If you were a box shop, you were selling hardware and software, you were selling servers, now you're adding a service onto that and helping with the maintaining of that. And that really evolved and helped the industry kind of grow up into what it is today. So yeah, I'd say I think a good number to use is about 125,000-200,000 of these IT professionals that are out there. And then maybe for folks in the room to maybe just... You know, who are some of the big players that own significant chunks of that, including yourself? Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So, the competition question is always interesting, and I wish we could give a. We were just talking about this on one of the calls before. It seems like we can't really give a super succinct answer. Yeah. So we compete with two types of folks. We compete with other MSP platform players like us, and for the most part, those are all private. So Kaseya, so Datto was the other publicly traded company that you all might have been familiar with. Datto was acquired by Kaseya, so they're one of the major players. There's another large player called ConnectWise. Both ConnectWise and Kaseya, from a revenue point of view, we believe, because they're private, are larger than N-able. But between the three of us, those are the three major players, I would say. But then we also compete with ISVs that are focused in backup, as an example. So whether it be Acronis or Veeam or some of these other players, we, we win against some of those pure plays, but also other security vendors as well. We win it against those folks, Matt, because they're not geared to the MSP. They're not focused for the MSP, and they don't have this platform play that they can help MSPs do their jobs more efficiently with automation and help them do their data protection, their security, and their monitoring and management in one platform, one single pane of glass, with a bunch of automation and policy that, again, helps their technicians do more with less. Yeah, that makes sense. How many do you recall? It's just Monday morning. It feels like it was weeks ago this morning. Yeah, yeah, it does. You said something that kind of... And I asked a question on the call, and I don't know... talked about this before you had, but it kind of- Yeah, yeah. It stuck with me a little bit. You know, you noted that you're starting to have more of a direct relationship with internal IT departments. That's an intriguing thing to kinda 'cause I think that's kinda speaks to, you know, maybe some of the scale, you know, how far you scale up today, I know, right? Sure. Talk about that motion. Is it new? Is it accelerating? You know, why is it important? It's not really new, but we're being more deliberate about it. Yeah. So let's back up. So now that folks, you know, understand what we do, if you think about our persona, our persona is an IT technician. Yep. And so whether they're in a managed service provider, an IT shop, or an internal IT department, that technician is faced with very similar challenges. They're trying to do more with less. They're trying to monitor and manage, take control of devices, add security, making sure they get the reports, making sure that they're compliant. And what we find is our platform is perfectly positioned, and it's really built for that internal IT department to do more with less in an automated way, just the same way that it is an MSP. So we're seeing a couple different use cases. We're seeing internal IT departments raise their hand and say, "Hey, look, I need a platform that can do all of these things," and our platform does that. We're also seeing shops saying, "Hey, look, I want my MSP and my internal IT department using the same platform, the same eyes on the glass- Yeah. ... so that we can see and have a more of a co-managed model. Mm-hmm. And so both are frankly tailwinds. On the internal IT department, those technicians, again, they're trying to help be able to monitor and deploy. In non-MSP land, what is the space called? It's called, you know, Unified Endpoint Management. So if you think of companies like ManageEngine or Ivanti or some of these other folks, where they have a patching, you know, a patching service, a monitoring service, a remote control. In the enterprise world, that's called IT, you know, Unified Endpoint Management, and that's the space that we're going on. So Matt, we're just being more deliberate, and we're having, you know, really strong success there, overall, in the internal IT department. That's helpful perspective. And by the way, I'll ask a few more questions. If there's any questions from the group, queue them up. Oh, well, look at this. Go for it. This is great. I love interaction. Obviously, usually, it's like... Hey, guys, when you compete with Datto or ConnectWise, what's the main basis for competition? Is it like... Where does price fall in the decision point? Where does functionality fall or anything else? Thank you. Sure. So, so remember, managed service providers, they're in the services business, right? So a good MSP might have 15% EBITDA. And, the top decile, and we believe we have a lot to do that, N-able, N-able, pun intended, we can get those MSPs to be 25%-30% EBITDA. What's their number one cost? It's labor. What's their number one challenge? It's technicians and being able to onboard and getting the most out of their technicians. So when we talk to our MSPs, it's really about TCO and ROI. It's saying, "Hey, look, we can--" I'll use our Cove Data Protection offering as an example. So our Cove Data Protection offering, we can actually demonstrate if you're using Veeam or some of these other competitors, we can actually save what-- you might have had three FTEs, three technicians. We can get that down to half because of the efficiency and the automation in our platform. So it's really demonstrating to the MSP that we can help you drive the technician efficiency and get that return and have your technicians doing things that are not necessarily the mundane. How do we do that? We show them the level of automation. A bunch of our automation is right out of the box. We have over 600 scripts, a bunch of automation that are canned, that they can plug in, but we also give them a wizard that they can actually drag and drop and create their own custom automation, so they can drive that efficiency higher. So I'd say that's that one big area. The second area is we give them, frankly, the most breadth from eyes on what they can monitor and manage. The other players do not have anything from an Apple management capability. So we're the only MSP platform on the planet that allows MSPs to monitor Windows devices, Linux devices, and Apple devices. I know Jamf will be in this room later on. So our what we've really built earlier this year was giving MSPs the ability to monitor and manage on par, we would say, especially for the MSP and the SME functionality as Jamf. So you take that, and that gives MSPs this breadth that they can now they don't need to have all these point solutions. They can use N-able to handle everything. That's where we are today, but we're going in the immediate future, we actually have it in preview right now, is we're now giving MSPs the ability to help monitor and manage Microsoft, the Microsoft clouds, so whether it be M365 or Intune or Azure. So in one platform, you can manage a Windows device, an Apple device, a Linux device, a server, a virtual machine, and now M365 and Azure, spinning those instances up, running policy to help better cost optimize and help that process go a little bit further. So the breadth and depth of our platform is really where we win, and the last element is our security approach, is different than the competitors. A lot of our competitors resell security. We integrate, and we'll build a lot of our own security IP as homegrown, but we're also partners. When we partner, we're not just reselling, we're integrating it in, again, to help the MSP do more with less in an integrated, kind of automated fashion. So those are a couple of the areas why we'll win there. Yep, yeah, good question. Appreciate the question. Are there any other... Yeah. Yeah. This is a couple of weeks before. I'm new to your company. There's one. Okay, sorry. Yeah, thanks. I'm new to your company. Just curious, at what size SMB do they churn out, or do they stay sticky? There's no-- they churn from small to large. So in our internal IT department customer base, we have Fortune 250 customers in our internal IT department customer base. It's a, we've, I don't wanna use the word always, but for a good number of years we've had that, but it's been a little bit more of a focus. We now have a dedicated sales team. We're starting to market. If you look at our website, we're now starting to use things that are a little bit more internal IT-friendly. So there's – it's not really a scale issue. I think the one thing we've seen over time, John, I've been in space for 10 years. 10 years ago, the size of SME on average, that the MSP would serve, might have been 50-100 people. That line has continued to go up. That's probably, you know, on average, and averages are a little dangerous sometimes. That's probably gone up to, like, 250 or 300 or so. That being said, you know, we see MSP servicing, you know, Fortune 500 companies, maybe, but not their full IT stack, but parts of it. So we've seen the industry evolve, where the MSP has scaled to service, and they've expanded their TAM on who they can service over the past decade or so. Yeah. My guess is, by the way, a bunch of you in the room are using an MSP. What I usually tell folks on the buy side and sell, mostly on the buy side, callbacks are, "Go look at your MSP's bill over the last five years," and you can see how it's gone up because they're adding services. Not because necessarily you're adding a ton of employees in your company, but because you're adding- they're adding additional security services and growing their, their share of wallet. And these are services that not, that you necessarily need or want to have, but that you need to have to stay in business. So, that's also another good dimension. Oh, sorry, I'm cutting you off here. Can I ask you quick about pricing? I think historically, pricing's been pretty stable. You guys talked about having ASP uplift opportunities as you add new products, but has like for like pricing been pretty stable for you guys in terms of the different RMM and- Sure. Et cetera? Sure. I'd, I'd say overall, pricing has been stable. I'd say... And so we price per service, per device or per service, per mailbox, and overall pricing's been very stable. I'd say that the interesting part, now that we have more and more services, what we're starting to do is look at ways to bundle, right? So Tim mentioned, the, you know, the average, again, averages are for dummies, but the, the average MSP might be using, you know, $3-$4 worth of our bits. And so for us, now that we have more and more of these services, you know, what's, what's the way to get that $3-$4 to $8-$10? The way that we're thinking about doing that efficiently and at scale is by beginning to bundle a little bit more of the security offerings and driving some of those bits. So I'd say that's where the opportunity lies, is for us. It's how do we efficiently get from a couple of services to four or five or six different services per MSP? And for me, some of that magic sauce will come in some of the bundling. But to the gentleman's first question about pricing, we don't really lose a customer because of pricing, or we don't lose a deal because of pricing. It's the TCO. Of course, pricing is gonna come into that equation to some extent, but it's really about the power and the platform, how we can drive efficiency, and therefore, we have a, I believe, a good amount of elasticity overall in our portfolio. That's great. Yep. Interactive group. I appreciate this. We just woke up this morning, so I looked at subscription growth versus AR, and subscription seems to be slowing somewhat, but AR seems to be holding better in terms of growth rate. Can you give us some color as to why revenue is more moderating versus AR staying a bit more stable? You wanna do that? So, NRR has been pretty consistent on a constant currency basis. I think it's 101, 108 has been the number. Our subscription revenue has been relatively consistent. I think you might be referring to, like, our guide. I'd say for a couple of different reasons, our Q4 guide was more conservative than maybe our Q3 performance. Number one, part of that was FX. So about, like, nearly 50%, 46%-47% of our revenue is outside of the US. Yeah. So we have a good amount of dependency on foreign exchange. So that provided a, you know, a seven-figure, like, a million-plus type of headwind from Q3 to Q4. We had some 606 revenue mix issues from Q3 to Q4, which is natural. Nothing more, just like a natural flow. And then, frankly, we look at the year, we beat Q3, we raised profit a good amount, both for the quarter and for the year. And we looked at Q4 and said, "Hey, we're gonna meet our annual number. We'll meet our annual number. We'll raise the EBITDA number." Tim and I always look at the Rule of 50 as a way to balance the business. based on the way we were looking at that, we said, "Hey, we'll raise the year, keep the top line pretty consistent." But yeah, so I'm not sure if there's subscription... Nothing really to call out on the subscription versus the total revenue, I don't believe. No. The total there, you know, the other revenue is pretty material. It's only $2 million. All right. Raise your hand if you, if you have more. But, maybe on the margin side, Tim, you guys hit a record standalone margin performance in Q3, despite, you know, still being above on revenue. Talk to us about how you maintain that profitability. You know, talk about that profitability side, because I think a lot of people, you know, it's growth, obviously, but the profitability is amazing too. Yeah. What do we think of longer term for that profitability? Yeah, I'll maybe speak to a little bit of the journey. So obviously, we spun out back in 2021, and we had to make a bunch of investments. I would say more so in G&A, in sales and marketing. So on the G&A side, we had to build infrastructure and teams, to get ready to be a standalone public company, you know, a little bit ahead of the curve. And I think if you looked at our G&A trajectory, dollars-wise, that's been, you know, close to flat, for in 2022 over 2021 and 2023 over 2022. So we've been getting leverage on that G&A line. On the sales and marketing line, more so on marketing, ... N-able didn't exist before 2021. So we had to go build that brand, spend ahead of the curve and build that brand up. I think, you know, we've, we've built a, a strong brand at this point. So I think there's- we're, we're starting to see some efficiency gains on the sales and marketing side. On that side of the equation, we're always scrubbing and looking for efficiencies as well, just as normal operating cadence. If you look at 2023, we've actually invested ahead of revenue on the R&D line more so to accelerate the velocity of that roadmap. I expect, you know, once we get... And I think we're getting there. I wouldn't say we're – I would say we're never satisfied, but in terms of getting that velocity, I think we'll get some leverage there over the next couple of years as well. And then, in terms of where that EBITDA margin can grow, a lot of it, for me, is gonna be dependent on the top-line execution. There's leverage in the model to get. It's a question of what's the opportunity? You know, what's the overall trajectory of our either market share gains, just overall TAM growth? How do we invest in that equation to drive, you know, that right type of rule of combination? And, you know, we're focused on driving that top-line growth acceleration. You know, over the next few years, we see the opportunity in the market. You know, we talked about the opportunity that's just sitting in our install base. There are billions of dollars of opportunity of just cross-sell. And there's also categories where we're not even checking that box in yet. And then, you know, the MSPs are driving their line up in terms of the size of SMB that they're servicing. There's also this kind of, you know, we have opportunities in that, direct to internal IT as well. So the opportunities are right to continue to invest, and we just take that balanced approach. We're not gonna rush profit up, based on those opportunities. And, you know, 10, 20 years from now, if that changes, that could be a different equation. But, we'll continue to keep that kind of balanced approach as to, you know, the growth opportunities in the business and the market versus kind of where we level off our profit. You know, in terms of next year, I think you didn't guide to next year. We talked about it on... I don't know if it was the call or the call back. We had a conversation, we talked about it on here, too. There's some things that are gonna help you next year with product launches, MDR, and obviously, the success you're having this year. There's also some headwinds. You know, you've got the pricing increase that you're anniversarying into. Maybe give us a framework for kind of how we should kind of like structurally think of next year. Because, you know, Canada, I mean, it feels like you've been growing mid-teens, and it feels like a mid-teen growing company. But, you know, we're taking a little more conservative view given the- Sure. Maybe just kind of give us some of the puts and takes. Yeah, sure, sure. So we can touch on price increases and maybe just for the broader group. So, we look at our pricing and packaging and bundling every year. Yep. Historically, we looked at our discounts that we would give to MSPs and claw back some of those discounting and realize a price increase via clawback of discounting. In 2023, we looked at the value that we were bringing into the base as far as some of the non-billable services, upgrading of our offering, and we took a different approach. We actually raised our list price across the portfolio. And we did that really because we saw the value there. But we did that, that netted a higher percentage base than previous years. So by definition, now we think about 2024, the current thinking is we probably wouldn't increase the price book again. We'd probably go back to that, that claw, clawback, which presents a little bit of a headwind to your points of the puts and takes. Yep. So by definition, that'll present a little bit of a headwind, especially in the first half of the year- Yep, yep. ...for the PIs, is what, is how we refer to them. But that's on one half. On the flip side, we raised the price book, but still in 2023, our new customer cohort is the strongest it's been- Mm. In four or five years, frankly. And so we believe that that value prop, and it's. It goes, it also is a little bit more of a proof point that price is not really an issue because we're able to win and get that cohort going. So we have a pretty, pretty strong there. As we think about 2024, price increase grow over is how we refer to it. Yeah, that's a little bit of a challenge. We're also seeing SMEs, excuse me, MSPs, get to their profit number and get to their revenue number by adding services, and as a result, we're not seeing the number of SME adds as we'd like. Some of that could be macro, some of that... By and large, macro, it's not that the demand is not there, it's just that the labor market is tight. Yeah. So the SME or the MSP is having difficulty hiring an IT technician, so they're able to get to their growth algorithm by adding security services and data protection, which is great. That's why our cross-sell are meeting our targets. So, I, I think you're right. I think we're, we're looking to go into 2024 with a conservative approach. We have a couple of those headwinds that will provide, provide a little bit of a grow over challenge, but we're really excited about some of the new offerings. We mentioned on the call, you and I were talking a little bit about our MDR offering. Yep, yep. That should be a game changer. As Tim mentioned, that blows open our white space even more. Yeah, yeah. And that's GA, literally, this month. So, and the pipeline's strong and building there, so we're excited about that. We're really excited about our cloud offering that comes GA really later this year, beginning of Q1. And so, we believe the, you know, as far as the, some of these NPIs, these new product introductions that we're having between now and the next, you know, 90-120 days, really should help us even accelerate the business as we get into 2024. That's great. Yeah, it's such a unique business. I've known you guys for a while, and we were involved in kind of some of these other precursors to you guys, and so it really strikes me is when I think about the vectors of growth and profitability, it strikes me that you guys are really building this long-term, double-digit, growing company, Rule of 50, right? And that's a unique value prop. I think the stock is undervalued here. Some people would say there's a bit of a float issue, but I think ultimately, stock execution and stock performance will take care of a lot of these things, and so I appreciate your time and sort of the thoughtful answers and the questions from the group, and look forward to 2024. 'Cause it really feels like, yeah, despite some of the... There's some puts and takes, but ultimately, it feels like the consistency is there, so- I appreciate it. And likewise, really always enjoy our conversations, and the diligence that you and your team do is really great, and we always enjoy the conversation. Cool. Next time, we'll have to do the... Well, yeah, we'll have an afternoon, Pinot with Pags. Well, you can all show up, and we'll have- we'll redo this up. Best of luck from all of us. Thank you. Appreciate it. Cool. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Matt.